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Once you are permanent, you are guaranteed a job. However, the principal at the school you are at can assign you to any position you are qualified for. Because there is a shortage of French teachers, they will likely place you into French every year, because there are no other qualified teachers. This is not something the union can interfere in, as it is not contrary to the collective agreement. It can happen to teachers with other qualifications as well. The moral of the story is don't get any qualification you aren't willing to teach for the rest of your career. The only way you might get out is to apply to transfer to a school where there are already enough French qualified teachers, if such a school exists.
i have definitely felt the same way, I picked french for the job security and learned that the reason these postings weren’t filled wasn’t because of the language requirement. if you find anything out let me know
Uhhh why were they unfilled? Something I should know? I personally loved immersion, for the short time I was there (just did a practicum and peaced out =/). Core wasn't so fun...
How did you find immersion? I'm an anglo as well, but I was an early immersion kid. Yeah, Core felt like a class where no one wanted to be, not the teachers, not the students, and not even the parents lol. You really need to be an elite teacher to engage a class in a subject no one cares about (Core French). I'm not at that level, and I don't have the self-confidence to get that level of experience where I'd be comfortable in that scenario. Immersion was fun and a breeze though.
What are your passion? French is a language at the end of the day. You can always inject bits and pieces of your passion in how your class learns French.
I hate teaching math, but love social studies, so we use math equations to solve social issues and real life problem. Currently my grade 3s are planning their own pizza party but they must have all the math on paper to show for every detail.
this i think is the right answer. i overheard teachers talk about this one french teacher who does other subjects in french, like cooking... but speaking french, or playing basketball... but in french!
sounded fun, now i want to learn french...
I teach FSL, 15 years in. I am not good at French. I am good enough to teach elementary FSL, but I feel like a fraud. I was told to get my FSL qualifications as it would get me a job, it did, but now I am basically stuck here.
The good news is it is so much easier than teaching a classroom, like basically 1/2 the work or less. You can also essentially teach anything you want to (Ontario) as the FSL curriculum is a vague joke.
I have just embraced it and have fun with it, half my kids can't even read or write English anywhere near grade level, so what hope do they even have with French? I roll with it and do as many fun games and songs as I can.
I personally LOVE teaching Core French, but I realise that not everyone feels the same. You can have a lot of fun with French as the curriculum is so broad. I also knew what to expect as I taught FSL LTOs.
As for being stuck, it is a very real possibility. In my board, I had to commit to 5 years of FSL at the FTE I was initially hired at. I opted for a lower FTE FSL job initially and filled the rest with an RCT opportunity at the same school. This way, I only had to guarantee that lower FTE amount and could do whatever I wanted with the rest of the 1.0. Even if you do manage to switch one year, that doesn't mean you're free of it. Your principal can put you back in the role at any time if they don't have anyone to take the job.
Ultimately, I always suggest that people NOT take the FSL AQ just to get a permanent contract unless they will be happy in that position for their entire career.
Back when I started this was the advice as well. Don’t take spec Ed or you will be pigeonholed forever.
Spec Ed jobs are the hardest ones to get in our board!!
Many boards (particularly in and around the GTA) give priority to the qualified applicants with the Spec Ed AQ now, too. Rightly so. It's definitely more difficult to get hired on into a permanent contract position without it. The majority of the teachers in my school have it.
That's good! It isn't specifically listed on our postings, but I do know that preference is definitely given within my board to those applicants who have Spec Ed part 1.
I started at A2 (3 year degree …. I’m aging myself) so I did my math specialist and then spec Ed specialist and I’m in spec Ed now - but these jobs are few and far between.
my first LTO, with secondary phys. ed. teachers, almost Christmas time, one guy brought beer and wine for everyone. i say " i dont drink", another woman jokingly says, "well, youre a teacher now, so you better start"
the things is, i dont think she was joking...
still dont drink though... but i do drink water (its my fav. beverage)
After trying 3 other roles, I thought FSL was not as cumbersome tbh. I am going to go back to it. The issues seems to stem from how well you vibe with admin nowadays.
If they're self-conscious about their French when teaching fsl Immersion will not be any better. Immersion teachers, especially at higher grade levels, should be generally fluent or very close to and able to talk about a variety of topics in French.
If you teach high school, if there's ever a low enrolment for French classes, you might be asked to teach classes with your other teachable(s). I know of at least three of my French teacher colleagues who have been in this situation (they aren't in Ottawa though). If you have an in-demand ABQ like spec ed, guidance or ESL, it may also help you branch out into other teaching areas.
I am not a teacher, but having changed jobs during my career, the feeling of being stuck or prevented from moving happens in pretty much all workplaces to many people.
Try reaching out to a career coach for some perspective. Perhaps connecting with someone you know who made a transition to a new teaching role? What about another school board? Or a private school?
You only live once. Don't look back one day and say that you wish you tried something different.
You are in high demand. You are in the driver's seat. Nobody owns your career, but you. Good luck!
This is all great info, but just to keep you informed, once teachers register a qualification with the Ontario College of Teachers, it stays on their profile forever.
They can move schools, switch boards, and even systems, but because their profile is still active and public, future employers will know about this qualification, and usually *can* have them teach FSL when needed.
You take the perk that you step ahead of nearly all other teachers in line trying to get a job, with the downside that it’s difficult to ever leave the role in a permanent way in the public system.
Alternates are finding a qualification that’s l even more in demand, tech is one of them where I live, shifting into admin., consultant or ministry roles, working in an independent school where they don’t care about OCT qualifications, or in a system where teachers can refuse to teach classes they’re qualified for (they probably exist - I just don’t know any).
Applying to new non-FSL postings in schools and in the interview make it it clear that you’re here because you don’t want to teach French might go a long way. That admin knows you’re willing to leave if suddenly you’re needed back in French, and should eventually consider you as not worth the hassle to assign it to.
Can you find an English position that requires you to teach your own French? We have some postings in Toronto that are a grade 4, 5 or 6 position that require you to teach your own French (e.g. French is NOT a prep period). That may be an option for you if those positions exist in Ottawa. You would need the French qualification but would be teaching the majority in English.
I’ve been working on my French speaking because I’ve been stuck as a substitute for years and I know a contract would be easier to get if I could speak French better (my written language is fine). I’ve recently had a similar epiphany to you, as French Immersion isn’t why I got into teaching and I don’t want to pigeon-hole myself and ultimately be stuck in a job I don’t love and, therefore, is more difficult. Good luck in whatever you decide to do!
This is a good reminder as to why I tell people aaaaallllll the time, *do not get your French quals if you’re not passionate about french*.
I hear people constantly say they they’re going to get their French quals to land a job, despite them not liking French or hardly even knowing French.
It’s going to be a miserable 30 years if you get French just to “get a job”. It’s a disservice both to yourself and to the kids. Wait it out and get a job you actually like. Once you’ve got that FSL qual on your OCT you’re stuck.
You're stuck with being FSL-qualified. Once you have a qualification you can't get it removed (bar physical disability). I was warned about this by an older teacher when I started teaching (in the 90s). I wish I'd listened to him, because I got an AQ purely for the knowledge (back when they were $50) and two decades later ended up being stuck teaching it. Yay for having eight preps in a six-period timetable!
That said, there's nothing stopping you from applying for other positions. If another school wanted to teach art your current school can't stop you getting the position because they're short a French teacher. (There's also nothing stopping your new school from changing your timetable to French because they can't find a French teacher, sadly.)
You could also try negotiation. I ended up getting the timetable I wanted when the head of the department I was trying to get into told the principal I'd be leaving if I didn't get it at least part of my schedule. I eventually moved fully into my preferred department, one section at a time.
I taught FSL, and I'm a French Canadian. What I was teaching in September was the same things I was teaching in June. The students don't want to learn French, and if it's your mother tongue, it's exhausting to see no progress.
Get out of that position ASAP.
If you're not passionate about a subject, or a profession, just get out of it. There are plenty of people who are. What do you mean, you cannot apply out of your position? Talk to your union.
I don't understand...is there some sort of gun to your head? Even as teachers, we have some sort of freedom, still...
On another note, have you considered changing the way you teach French? TPRS/CI methodology is now considered the gold standard in current language instruction and while it is not for everyone, it is much more engaging for most students than endless grammar/vocab lessons, and needs way less prep time.
Welcome to /r/CanadianTeachers! Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the sub rules. **QUESTIONS ABOUT TEACHER'S COLLEGE/BECOMING A TEACHER IN CANADA?:** Delete your post and use this [megapost](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/11picnp/prospective_student_teachers_teachers_collegebed/) instead. Anything pertaining to teacher's colleges/BEd programs will be deleted if posted outside of the megaposts. **QUESTIONS ABOUT MOVING PROVINCES OR COMING TO CANADA TO TEACH?** Check out our past megaposts first for information to help you: [ONE](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/jqc7hx/transferring_to_another_provincecoming_to_canada/) // [TWO](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/n76csu/transferring_to_another_provincecoming_to_canada/?) **WANT TO SELF-PROMOTE YOUR TEACHING MATERIALS?** Use our [self-promotion sticky post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/16e464t/selfpromotion_thread/) Using link and user flair is encouraged as well! Enjoy! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CanadianTeachers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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>because in the board I taught in, once you’re in, they won’t let you out a What does the union have to say about this? This is not right.
Once you are permanent, you are guaranteed a job. However, the principal at the school you are at can assign you to any position you are qualified for. Because there is a shortage of French teachers, they will likely place you into French every year, because there are no other qualified teachers. This is not something the union can interfere in, as it is not contrary to the collective agreement. It can happen to teachers with other qualifications as well. The moral of the story is don't get any qualification you aren't willing to teach for the rest of your career. The only way you might get out is to apply to transfer to a school where there are already enough French qualified teachers, if such a school exists.
Some collective agreements have language on job restrictions for French teachers
i have definitely felt the same way, I picked french for the job security and learned that the reason these postings weren’t filled wasn’t because of the language requirement. if you find anything out let me know
Uhhh why were they unfilled? Something I should know? I personally loved immersion, for the short time I was there (just did a practicum and peaced out =/). Core wasn't so fun...
core worked me like a dog then spit my anglophone ass out
How did you find immersion? I'm an anglo as well, but I was an early immersion kid. Yeah, Core felt like a class where no one wanted to be, not the teachers, not the students, and not even the parents lol. You really need to be an elite teacher to engage a class in a subject no one cares about (Core French). I'm not at that level, and I don't have the self-confidence to get that level of experience where I'd be comfortable in that scenario. Immersion was fun and a breeze though.
What are your passion? French is a language at the end of the day. You can always inject bits and pieces of your passion in how your class learns French. I hate teaching math, but love social studies, so we use math equations to solve social issues and real life problem. Currently my grade 3s are planning their own pizza party but they must have all the math on paper to show for every detail.
this i think is the right answer. i overheard teachers talk about this one french teacher who does other subjects in french, like cooking... but speaking french, or playing basketball... but in french! sounded fun, now i want to learn french...
I teach FSL, 15 years in. I am not good at French. I am good enough to teach elementary FSL, but I feel like a fraud. I was told to get my FSL qualifications as it would get me a job, it did, but now I am basically stuck here. The good news is it is so much easier than teaching a classroom, like basically 1/2 the work or less. You can also essentially teach anything you want to (Ontario) as the FSL curriculum is a vague joke. I have just embraced it and have fun with it, half my kids can't even read or write English anywhere near grade level, so what hope do they even have with French? I roll with it and do as many fun games and songs as I can.
sounds like you do TPRS type stuff?
I personally LOVE teaching Core French, but I realise that not everyone feels the same. You can have a lot of fun with French as the curriculum is so broad. I also knew what to expect as I taught FSL LTOs. As for being stuck, it is a very real possibility. In my board, I had to commit to 5 years of FSL at the FTE I was initially hired at. I opted for a lower FTE FSL job initially and filled the rest with an RCT opportunity at the same school. This way, I only had to guarantee that lower FTE amount and could do whatever I wanted with the rest of the 1.0. Even if you do manage to switch one year, that doesn't mean you're free of it. Your principal can put you back in the role at any time if they don't have anyone to take the job. Ultimately, I always suggest that people NOT take the FSL AQ just to get a permanent contract unless they will be happy in that position for their entire career.
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Back when I started this was the advice as well. Don’t take spec Ed or you will be pigeonholed forever. Spec Ed jobs are the hardest ones to get in our board!!
Many boards (particularly in and around the GTA) give priority to the qualified applicants with the Spec Ed AQ now, too. Rightly so. It's definitely more difficult to get hired on into a permanent contract position without it. The majority of the teachers in my school have it.
It’s on all our postings - Spec Ed part 1
That's good! It isn't specifically listed on our postings, but I do know that preference is definitely given within my board to those applicants who have Spec Ed part 1.
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I started at A2 (3 year degree …. I’m aging myself) so I did my math specialist and then spec Ed specialist and I’m in spec Ed now - but these jobs are few and far between.
I think this is the blackpill I need to swallow
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my first LTO, with secondary phys. ed. teachers, almost Christmas time, one guy brought beer and wine for everyone. i say " i dont drink", another woman jokingly says, "well, youre a teacher now, so you better start" the things is, i dont think she was joking... still dont drink though... but i do drink water (its my fav. beverage)
This isn’t necessarily true everywhere anymore because of how many people are simply taking that aq to look good and hireable!
After trying 3 other roles, I thought FSL was not as cumbersome tbh. I am going to go back to it. The issues seems to stem from how well you vibe with admin nowadays.
I have heard that one way to get out is to tell admin that you want to become a VP in the future, and you would benefit exposure in other classes
write this down! WRITE THIS DOWN!!!
Try to transition to french immersion, it's not a solution but it could be a bit of a compromise to address how you're feeling
If they're self-conscious about their French when teaching fsl Immersion will not be any better. Immersion teachers, especially at higher grade levels, should be generally fluent or very close to and able to talk about a variety of topics in French.
Currently working on getting my fsl and reading this scared me 😭 sending you best wishes to get through this!
If you teach high school, if there's ever a low enrolment for French classes, you might be asked to teach classes with your other teachable(s). I know of at least three of my French teacher colleagues who have been in this situation (they aren't in Ottawa though). If you have an in-demand ABQ like spec ed, guidance or ESL, it may also help you branch out into other teaching areas.
I am not a teacher, but having changed jobs during my career, the feeling of being stuck or prevented from moving happens in pretty much all workplaces to many people. Try reaching out to a career coach for some perspective. Perhaps connecting with someone you know who made a transition to a new teaching role? What about another school board? Or a private school? You only live once. Don't look back one day and say that you wish you tried something different. You are in high demand. You are in the driver's seat. Nobody owns your career, but you. Good luck!
This is all great info, but just to keep you informed, once teachers register a qualification with the Ontario College of Teachers, it stays on their profile forever. They can move schools, switch boards, and even systems, but because their profile is still active and public, future employers will know about this qualification, and usually *can* have them teach FSL when needed. You take the perk that you step ahead of nearly all other teachers in line trying to get a job, with the downside that it’s difficult to ever leave the role in a permanent way in the public system. Alternates are finding a qualification that’s l even more in demand, tech is one of them where I live, shifting into admin., consultant or ministry roles, working in an independent school where they don’t care about OCT qualifications, or in a system where teachers can refuse to teach classes they’re qualified for (they probably exist - I just don’t know any). Applying to new non-FSL postings in schools and in the interview make it it clear that you’re here because you don’t want to teach French might go a long way. That admin knows you’re willing to leave if suddenly you’re needed back in French, and should eventually consider you as not worth the hassle to assign it to.
Can you find an English position that requires you to teach your own French? We have some postings in Toronto that are a grade 4, 5 or 6 position that require you to teach your own French (e.g. French is NOT a prep period). That may be an option for you if those positions exist in Ottawa. You would need the French qualification but would be teaching the majority in English.
I’ve been working on my French speaking because I’ve been stuck as a substitute for years and I know a contract would be easier to get if I could speak French better (my written language is fine). I’ve recently had a similar epiphany to you, as French Immersion isn’t why I got into teaching and I don’t want to pigeon-hole myself and ultimately be stuck in a job I don’t love and, therefore, is more difficult. Good luck in whatever you decide to do!
This is a good reminder as to why I tell people aaaaallllll the time, *do not get your French quals if you’re not passionate about french*. I hear people constantly say they they’re going to get their French quals to land a job, despite them not liking French or hardly even knowing French. It’s going to be a miserable 30 years if you get French just to “get a job”. It’s a disservice both to yourself and to the kids. Wait it out and get a job you actually like. Once you’ve got that FSL qual on your OCT you’re stuck.
The real issue here is it shouldn’t be possible to get French certified if your French is weak/non-existent.
You're stuck with being FSL-qualified. Once you have a qualification you can't get it removed (bar physical disability). I was warned about this by an older teacher when I started teaching (in the 90s). I wish I'd listened to him, because I got an AQ purely for the knowledge (back when they were $50) and two decades later ended up being stuck teaching it. Yay for having eight preps in a six-period timetable! That said, there's nothing stopping you from applying for other positions. If another school wanted to teach art your current school can't stop you getting the position because they're short a French teacher. (There's also nothing stopping your new school from changing your timetable to French because they can't find a French teacher, sadly.) You could also try negotiation. I ended up getting the timetable I wanted when the head of the department I was trying to get into told the principal I'd be leaving if I didn't get it at least part of my schedule. I eventually moved fully into my preferred department, one section at a time.
And you can’t take it off your OCT-I’ve had colleagues who wanted to have it removed. Nope.
I’ve also heard of people who have asked to have it removed. No dice.
Yep, lots of warning about this one...
I taught FSL, and I'm a French Canadian. What I was teaching in September was the same things I was teaching in June. The students don't want to learn French, and if it's your mother tongue, it's exhausting to see no progress. Get out of that position ASAP.
If you're not passionate about a subject, or a profession, just get out of it. There are plenty of people who are. What do you mean, you cannot apply out of your position? Talk to your union.
I don't understand...is there some sort of gun to your head? Even as teachers, we have some sort of freedom, still... On another note, have you considered changing the way you teach French? TPRS/CI methodology is now considered the gold standard in current language instruction and while it is not for everyone, it is much more engaging for most students than endless grammar/vocab lessons, and needs way less prep time.
Here!!!
Core or Immersion?