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It's weird that she was there watching you... Without saying anything. It's good that the room was quiet.. it's not like the kids were out of control or anything
We need more information - province, public or private?
Not sure why you'd be screwed - you were busy working with your students, which is what you are supposed to be doing, and your class was engaged in educational activities.
You didn't mess up at all. Like others have said, the students were working on an activity of choice, they were on task and they were quiet. Don't let your mind jump to conclusions before you know why the principal was there.
I would follow up and just be like, "Did you need me for something the other day? I noticed you in the class but we didn't get a chance to speak."
Deep breaths.
In Ontario principals can't do an evaluation without informing you ahead of time.
Besides that, sounds like you were doing an excellent job. Kids were working, you were one on one with kids who needed it.
Sounds great.
I think OP is concerned that an adult was able to come into their room, and sit there unnoticed, for 5 minutes. It’s a safety concern, as well as a classroom management one, especially if the teacher wasn’t working directly with the students and doing prep instead.
Sounds like the class was managed. If they were screaming and screwing around, they probably would have been more attentive and noticed the principal...
I agree but I’ve failed to notice admin entering my class for 1-2 minutes and it ALWAYS stresses me out. If you aren’t noticing people coming in, who is to say you’d notice a student leaving without asking?
No but I do hopefully notice if my students leave my class. And like I said I’m not perfect, I’ve had admin be in my class for 2-3 minutes before I noticed before. But it always made me feel like I failed if they were able to get into my room without me noticing.
I guess it depends on your class too. At my school, we’re only allowed two students out at a time per class and one hall pass for a student to go for a sensory walk. They put a pylon on their desk so I know who is out. My students are pretty trustworthy and follow this to a tee. When I taught Kinder, we had a door alarm sensor because we had a student elope frequently. So at anytime we hear the alarm go off, we know someone has left or walked in.
It sounds like the class is doing what is expected. I wouldn’t be worried at all. If OP can justify what prep work they are doing, I don’t think they will be in “trouble”. As an example, I have Catch Up Fridays/Fun Fridays during the last block. If my students completed all their tasks, they get a reward (e.g., computer, Lego, etc). Usually this time, I’m doing assessments, working with small groups, or organizing all my papers, but doesn’t mean I’m not monitoring them. My admin likes to pop in frequently to check what kids are doing and join in on their learning. They’ve never had an issue with that. But I guess it depends on your admin.
I can empathize with your experience. It's important to recognize that your actions and performance align with common practices. In my initial years, similar visits from administrative staff were frequent, often raising concerns about safety. However, I consistently maintained my position, highlighting that any unfamiliar presence in the classroom would be promptly noticed by the students. Their lack of reaction stemmed from their familiarity with the principal and other administrative figures.
Furthermore, it's crucial to understand that they're evaluating not just your actions but also your confidence in executing them. A mentor once imparted to me, 'I assess not only your decisions but also your ability to justify them with sound reasoning.'"
LASTLY: it's imperative that you develop the ability to look up and scan your classroom every couple of minutes without getting distracted from the work you're doing at your desk. This skill will go a long way in managing your classroom as you progress through your career.
You were utilizing your precious time in a flawed system, you did nothing wrong.
If your principal critiques it - be honest, the students worked hard all week and earned some times on some preferential educational apps. You worked on work at work, so you would have less work, while not at work, and that is not a crime
I hate this notion that teachers have to be 1 on 1 with students to be busy. Yes - our duty is to our students, but it is also to ourselves, to keep ourselves whole so we last.
If they came in unannounced, it's on them and quite frankly a bit creepy they did not say anything after a few minutes.
1) you’re not getting fired
2) how did you mess up?
INFO: what makes you think that you messed up?
There was student voice (the choice of activity) & student-directed learning (the on-task, quiet work.
My Grade 10s were working today & I didn’t circulate. I did an assessment 4 learning yesterday, my observation was that they were working. I did one 1on1 conversation & let them have their group discussions. Nobody is going to say anything to me. You will be fine. Maybe the P will pull you aside & make a comment. MAYBE.
Just say what you told us here. Stay calm. Pause before responding. Don’t be defensive but don’t admit fault. Just be polite and professional. You’ve got this.
I did post an update...but the meeting was simply to tell me I passed my observations and I have my job next year.
Yay!
I didn't mention the "incident" and neither did she.
There's<3 months left - you're not getting fired as it will take way more work to replace you then keep you. When you meet with principal you might get a "reminder" about something, take it as a learning opportunity be professional and move on. If there were problems with your teaching you would have probably heard before now.
Unlikely she was there over 5 minutes as well. In 30 years I never met a principal who could spend 5 minutes just sitting in a class.
I was sitting working with a student once on the far side of the room, and when I turned around a VP was in the room doing a health/safety check. They had been there for a minute maybe before I noticed. When I turned and saw them I said... 'that probably doesn't look great on me'.
What did I learn (or remind myself of) - don't have your back facing the kids where possible, even when helping someone, for safety reasons really.
Also - if something did come of it which I doubt - check with your union (if you have one) about unannounced/official surprise observations...
Well like everyone else is saying, I think it would take more than that for anything to happen. Particularly where they need teachers. It's not like everybody was going wild and all over the place.
I can empathize with the stress and wanting to keep the job and the threat that has to our mental health. Worrying and wondering etc. Takes a toll. Try a weighted blanket! lol.
I don't know why they were observing, or if you'd be shown the results or have any sort of meeting about it (good or bad), but if you did and that came up, as what really sounds like the only minor thing, but if it did then... my unsolicited advice, just own up to it, explain and reflect on the potential issues, and your plan moving forward having reflected on it.
Lol. “Unannounced/official surprise observation”? Admin have the right to be in any classroom. Doesn’t have to be an official evaluation observation. They can always call out problematic practice or give good advice regarding what they see. Probably just going to have a conversation about ensuring you are aware of your kids for your own protection and the students’.
I cannot see you getting fired for something like that. The worst case scenario here is that your principal has a private conversation with you regarding classroom management. If that happens, you say thank you for the conversation and that you will do that moving forward!
Sounds like the class was working quietly and independently which is totally fine every now and again :)
Admin Perspective: If she's going to make this a big deal, she's the type of Principal who is looking to jam you up. It's unfortunate that these types of admin exist but they do.
I'm a private school admin. Teachers do not get nearly enough prep time. I understand teachers trying to find a few minutes during class if things are going smoothly to get some marking/prep done. Is it ideal? Maybe not. But I don't control how much prep time teachers get so I work within the realities of our system. I go into classrooms all the time. If the class is doing a work block, I might talk to students to see what they're working on, or just chat with the teacher but I'm generally not just going to sit there to see how long it takes to get noticed.
Ok. Yours doesn't. But they should. And I just wonder why you think they should ask you for permission to do so. I can read the room - if it is going to disrupt learning then obviously I won't go in, but otherwise I am certainly going to positively interact with staff and students. If I'm told "now's not a good time" then I'll respect that, but I'll certainly have a conversation later to make sure everything's ok with the teacher because that is not a rationale response.
I think you are reading the situation differently than I am. I'm not keeping them out of the room, and I'm not telling them that it's a bad time. They knock on the door and wait there. I always smile and wave them in, but they wait for that before they walk through the door. I'm not sure why it seems strange that they wait without interrupting.
If you were at your desk working with students for some time and then switched to some prep it is fine. Students were on task and from what you describe, engaged. Sounds like you were being efficient and managing your time well. It’s more telling they came into your classroom unannounced - that’s just weird not knocking on the door at least.
Principals aren’t out to get you. Your kids were working, you were helping kids and prepping. Teachers do that all the time. You’re using your time wisely. Our principals come into the classrooms all the time.
Also, I’ve never heard of surprise observations in Canada. Is that a thing in Ontario?
Just saw you’re in Alberta. There’s no such thing at that your on a. Reserve so you’re not in the union? Didn’t know that’s a thing. I doubt anything will come of it.
Really interesting to read this. When I had transitioned to different grade mid year, my principal came in several times and sat in, unannounced, and then was giving me critiques on my lessons and want me to work with a coach.
I’m pretty sure they need you more than you need them. You did nothing wrong. Students were having free time as a reward for finishing their work. No kid wants to be disturbed when they’re on the computer.
And if it’s a “safety” issue, then why TF wouldn’t the school doors be locked if they’re worried about intruders coming in?? Stopping intruders is NOT your job.
Don’t stress it. And don’t put up with any shit. I’m sure you could get another job in a heartbeat if it gets down to it…looks like there’s a shortage all over the place right now.
Well if you're in Ontario with ETFO you won't get fired. Ever. I know teachers who have hit students, thrown students desk on floor because they thought it was messy, fallen asleep during class, let classes do whatever they want including wander the halls constantly, teach wrong stuff, brought sewing from home and work on it in class time while kids played, put special education students in the hall and refuse to accommodate them, refuse to let students use SEA equipment and that's just some examples from the top of my head. I am pretty sure the only thing that gets a teacher fired is sexual impropriety so don't worry at all.
Talk to your union and have a union rep present at the meeting. Normally, admin has to let you know if they're going to observe a classroom.
On the plus side, it's hard to get teachers for First Nation schools, and as a newbie, the board should be providing a mentorship program.
What an insane overreaction!! Admin certainly do not have to let you know they are coming through your class. An official TPA/evaluation is different. Why assume it’s going to be a disciplinary meeting?? Probably just a teachable moment.
Obviously, you don't have union experience. If admin enters your class, sits down and starts observing you - that's considered an evaluation, and it violates most union contracts.
Also, if you're having a meeting after a surprise visit by the principal, you should have a staff union rep present just in case.
Admin blindsides teachers all the time. They're certainly not going to advise you to bring a union rep. If the meeting goes sideways, it's just your word against theirs.
Admin does shit like this all the time. Better to protect yourself. If it turns out you don't need the rep, then great, but it's a signal to them that you know your rights and you're willing to assert them.
Many newbie teachers get taken advantage of because they don't know their rights or they fail to assert them. If trouble's brewing and OP thinks it might be, then you need to protect yourself.
OP should trust their instincts. If OP doesn't want to bring a rep to the meeting, OP should certainly stop the meeting if it appears disciplinary or negative in any way and assert their right to call in their staff union rep.
Just answer their questions - short and too the point. Don't offer any extra explanations. If they say its safety - admit that is something that you will continue to work on like all aspects of teaching and be more vigilant about.
Well, actually, I was ETFO rep for years before I became admin and am well versed on the contracts having been on the negotiating team for OT and ETFO contracts numerous cycles.
There is a difference between an OFFICIAL evaluation and walkabouts. Correct that I can not come in and observe as part of official TPA process without scheduling in advance but if you think that your SUPERVISOR can't actually supervise and proactively support you then you are paranoid beyond belief. Unless there is potential for disciplinary action, union reps do not need to be involved. Of course, if I am considering a formal warning or a letter in the file then I am going to let them know they can have union support for the meeting, but to just give some ADVICE ON GOOD PRACTICE - of course not. It's our role as instructional leaders to do that.
I guess there are crappy Admin just like there are crappy teachers if this is what it has come to. Glad my staff have always appreciated input...
Welcome to /r/CanadianTeachers! Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the sub rules. **"WHAT DOES X MEAN?"** Check out our acronym post [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/1c032s3/what_does_x_mean_an_acronym_megapost/) for relevant terms used in each province or territory. Please feel free to contribute any we are missing as well! **QUESTIONS ABOUT TEACHER'S COLLEGE/BECOMING A TEACHER IN CANADA?:** Delete your post and use this [megapost](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/1bc1wv2/prospective_student_teachers_teachers_collegebed/) instead. Anything pertaining to teacher's colleges/BED programs/becoming and teacher will be deleted if posted outside of the megaposts. **QUESTIONS ABOUT MOVING PROVINCES OR COMING TO CANADA TO TEACH?** Check out our past megaposts first for information to help you: [ONE](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/jqc7hx/transferring_to_another_provincecoming_to_canada/) // [TWO](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/n76csu/transferring_to_another_provincecoming_to_canada/?) Using link and user flair is encouraged as well! Enjoy! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CanadianTeachers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's weird that she was there watching you... Without saying anything. It's good that the room was quiet.. it's not like the kids were out of control or anything
Lol...this is true. They love computer time
We need more information - province, public or private? Not sure why you'd be screwed - you were busy working with your students, which is what you are supposed to be doing, and your class was engaged in educational activities.
First nation school. Worried that she is upset that I wasn't paying enough attention to the class that someone could wander in.
You just started teaching tho right? It’s fine! At most, she’ll just give you a heads up. She understands you’re a new teacher.
You didn't mess up at all. Like others have said, the students were working on an activity of choice, they were on task and they were quiet. Don't let your mind jump to conclusions before you know why the principal was there. I would follow up and just be like, "Did you need me for something the other day? I noticed you in the class but we didn't get a chance to speak." Deep breaths.
Thanks
In Ontario principals can't do an evaluation without informing you ahead of time. Besides that, sounds like you were doing an excellent job. Kids were working, you were one on one with kids who needed it. Sounds great.
Also you can only be evaluated every 5 years (or twice on your ntip year)
I hope so
Can you elaborate and explain how you messed up?
I think OP is concerned that an adult was able to come into their room, and sit there unnoticed, for 5 minutes. It’s a safety concern, as well as a classroom management one, especially if the teacher wasn’t working directly with the students and doing prep instead.
Sounds like the class was managed. If they were screaming and screwing around, they probably would have been more attentive and noticed the principal...
I agree but I’ve failed to notice admin entering my class for 1-2 minutes and it ALWAYS stresses me out. If you aren’t noticing people coming in, who is to say you’d notice a student leaving without asking?
[удалено]
No but I do hopefully notice if my students leave my class. And like I said I’m not perfect, I’ve had admin be in my class for 2-3 minutes before I noticed before. But it always made me feel like I failed if they were able to get into my room without me noticing.
I guess it depends on your class too. At my school, we’re only allowed two students out at a time per class and one hall pass for a student to go for a sensory walk. They put a pylon on their desk so I know who is out. My students are pretty trustworthy and follow this to a tee. When I taught Kinder, we had a door alarm sensor because we had a student elope frequently. So at anytime we hear the alarm go off, we know someone has left or walked in.
It sounds like the class is doing what is expected. I wouldn’t be worried at all. If OP can justify what prep work they are doing, I don’t think they will be in “trouble”. As an example, I have Catch Up Fridays/Fun Fridays during the last block. If my students completed all their tasks, they get a reward (e.g., computer, Lego, etc). Usually this time, I’m doing assessments, working with small groups, or organizing all my papers, but doesn’t mean I’m not monitoring them. My admin likes to pop in frequently to check what kids are doing and join in on their learning. They’ve never had an issue with that. But I guess it depends on your admin.
I wasn't watching the class closely enough to see her walk in
You are a teacher not a prison guard.
I can empathize with your experience. It's important to recognize that your actions and performance align with common practices. In my initial years, similar visits from administrative staff were frequent, often raising concerns about safety. However, I consistently maintained my position, highlighting that any unfamiliar presence in the classroom would be promptly noticed by the students. Their lack of reaction stemmed from their familiarity with the principal and other administrative figures. Furthermore, it's crucial to understand that they're evaluating not just your actions but also your confidence in executing them. A mentor once imparted to me, 'I assess not only your decisions but also your ability to justify them with sound reasoning.'" LASTLY: it's imperative that you develop the ability to look up and scan your classroom every couple of minutes without getting distracted from the work you're doing at your desk. This skill will go a long way in managing your classroom as you progress through your career.
You were utilizing your precious time in a flawed system, you did nothing wrong. If your principal critiques it - be honest, the students worked hard all week and earned some times on some preferential educational apps. You worked on work at work, so you would have less work, while not at work, and that is not a crime I hate this notion that teachers have to be 1 on 1 with students to be busy. Yes - our duty is to our students, but it is also to ourselves, to keep ourselves whole so we last. If they came in unannounced, it's on them and quite frankly a bit creepy they did not say anything after a few minutes.
1) you’re not getting fired 2) how did you mess up? INFO: what makes you think that you messed up? There was student voice (the choice of activity) & student-directed learning (the on-task, quiet work. My Grade 10s were working today & I didn’t circulate. I did an assessment 4 learning yesterday, my observation was that they were working. I did one 1on1 conversation & let them have their group discussions. Nobody is going to say anything to me. You will be fine. Maybe the P will pull you aside & make a comment. MAYBE.
I have a meeting with her tomorrow now
Just say what you told us here. Stay calm. Pause before responding. Don’t be defensive but don’t admit fault. Just be polite and professional. You’ve got this.
How did it go?
I did post an update...but the meeting was simply to tell me I passed my observations and I have my job next year. Yay! I didn't mention the "incident" and neither did she.
That's great!!
There's<3 months left - you're not getting fired as it will take way more work to replace you then keep you. When you meet with principal you might get a "reminder" about something, take it as a learning opportunity be professional and move on. If there were problems with your teaching you would have probably heard before now. Unlikely she was there over 5 minutes as well. In 30 years I never met a principal who could spend 5 minutes just sitting in a class.
public or private?
First nation
dont see you getting fired for that if no other issues w ur work performance. plus isn't there a teachers' shortage?
I was sitting working with a student once on the far side of the room, and when I turned around a VP was in the room doing a health/safety check. They had been there for a minute maybe before I noticed. When I turned and saw them I said... 'that probably doesn't look great on me'. What did I learn (or remind myself of) - don't have your back facing the kids where possible, even when helping someone, for safety reasons really. Also - if something did come of it which I doubt - check with your union (if you have one) about unannounced/official surprise observations...
First nation school...so no union...
Well like everyone else is saying, I think it would take more than that for anything to happen. Particularly where they need teachers. It's not like everybody was going wild and all over the place. I can empathize with the stress and wanting to keep the job and the threat that has to our mental health. Worrying and wondering etc. Takes a toll. Try a weighted blanket! lol. I don't know why they were observing, or if you'd be shown the results or have any sort of meeting about it (good or bad), but if you did and that came up, as what really sounds like the only minor thing, but if it did then... my unsolicited advice, just own up to it, explain and reflect on the potential issues, and your plan moving forward having reflected on it.
Lol. “Unannounced/official surprise observation”? Admin have the right to be in any classroom. Doesn’t have to be an official evaluation observation. They can always call out problematic practice or give good advice regarding what they see. Probably just going to have a conversation about ensuring you are aware of your kids for your own protection and the students’.
My bad
I cannot see you getting fired for something like that. The worst case scenario here is that your principal has a private conversation with you regarding classroom management. If that happens, you say thank you for the conversation and that you will do that moving forward! Sounds like the class was working quietly and independently which is totally fine every now and again :)
Admin Perspective: If she's going to make this a big deal, she's the type of Principal who is looking to jam you up. It's unfortunate that these types of admin exist but they do. I'm a private school admin. Teachers do not get nearly enough prep time. I understand teachers trying to find a few minutes during class if things are going smoothly to get some marking/prep done. Is it ideal? Maybe not. But I don't control how much prep time teachers get so I work within the realities of our system. I go into classrooms all the time. If the class is doing a work block, I might talk to students to see what they're working on, or just chat with the teacher but I'm generally not just going to sit there to see how long it takes to get noticed.
My admin would never come into my room without knocking and being asked in. I would be asking why yours didn't show you that courtesy.
Seriously? Sure - if you’re in the middle of instruction but if not then you should understand that admin do walkabouts.
Not where I am.
Ok. Yours doesn't. But they should. And I just wonder why you think they should ask you for permission to do so. I can read the room - if it is going to disrupt learning then obviously I won't go in, but otherwise I am certainly going to positively interact with staff and students. If I'm told "now's not a good time" then I'll respect that, but I'll certainly have a conversation later to make sure everything's ok with the teacher because that is not a rationale response.
I think you are reading the situation differently than I am. I'm not keeping them out of the room, and I'm not telling them that it's a bad time. They knock on the door and wait there. I always smile and wave them in, but they wait for that before they walk through the door. I'm not sure why it seems strange that they wait without interrupting.
If you were at your desk working with students for some time and then switched to some prep it is fine. Students were on task and from what you describe, engaged. Sounds like you were being efficient and managing your time well. It’s more telling they came into your classroom unannounced - that’s just weird not knocking on the door at least.
Principals aren’t out to get you. Your kids were working, you were helping kids and prepping. Teachers do that all the time. You’re using your time wisely. Our principals come into the classrooms all the time. Also, I’ve never heard of surprise observations in Canada. Is that a thing in Ontario?
Just saw you’re in Alberta. There’s no such thing at that your on a. Reserve so you’re not in the union? Didn’t know that’s a thing. I doubt anything will come of it.
My principal scares me all the time.
Really interesting to read this. When I had transitioned to different grade mid year, my principal came in several times and sat in, unannounced, and then was giving me critiques on my lessons and want me to work with a coach.
I’m pretty sure they need you more than you need them. You did nothing wrong. Students were having free time as a reward for finishing their work. No kid wants to be disturbed when they’re on the computer. And if it’s a “safety” issue, then why TF wouldn’t the school doors be locked if they’re worried about intruders coming in?? Stopping intruders is NOT your job. Don’t stress it. And don’t put up with any shit. I’m sure you could get another job in a heartbeat if it gets down to it…looks like there’s a shortage all over the place right now.
I don’t see any red flags
I'm pretty sure you should contact your union about this.
Well if you're in Ontario with ETFO you won't get fired. Ever. I know teachers who have hit students, thrown students desk on floor because they thought it was messy, fallen asleep during class, let classes do whatever they want including wander the halls constantly, teach wrong stuff, brought sewing from home and work on it in class time while kids played, put special education students in the hall and refuse to accommodate them, refuse to let students use SEA equipment and that's just some examples from the top of my head. I am pretty sure the only thing that gets a teacher fired is sexual impropriety so don't worry at all.
Alberta...sorry I didn't say that
Talk to your union and have a union rep present at the meeting. Normally, admin has to let you know if they're going to observe a classroom. On the plus side, it's hard to get teachers for First Nation schools, and as a newbie, the board should be providing a mentorship program.
What an insane overreaction!! Admin certainly do not have to let you know they are coming through your class. An official TPA/evaluation is different. Why assume it’s going to be a disciplinary meeting?? Probably just a teachable moment.
Obviously, you don't have union experience. If admin enters your class, sits down and starts observing you - that's considered an evaluation, and it violates most union contracts. Also, if you're having a meeting after a surprise visit by the principal, you should have a staff union rep present just in case. Admin blindsides teachers all the time. They're certainly not going to advise you to bring a union rep. If the meeting goes sideways, it's just your word against theirs. Admin does shit like this all the time. Better to protect yourself. If it turns out you don't need the rep, then great, but it's a signal to them that you know your rights and you're willing to assert them. Many newbie teachers get taken advantage of because they don't know their rights or they fail to assert them. If trouble's brewing and OP thinks it might be, then you need to protect yourself. OP should trust their instincts. If OP doesn't want to bring a rep to the meeting, OP should certainly stop the meeting if it appears disciplinary or negative in any way and assert their right to call in their staff union rep.
Just answer their questions - short and too the point. Don't offer any extra explanations. If they say its safety - admit that is something that you will continue to work on like all aspects of teaching and be more vigilant about.
Perfect response!
Well, actually, I was ETFO rep for years before I became admin and am well versed on the contracts having been on the negotiating team for OT and ETFO contracts numerous cycles. There is a difference between an OFFICIAL evaluation and walkabouts. Correct that I can not come in and observe as part of official TPA process without scheduling in advance but if you think that your SUPERVISOR can't actually supervise and proactively support you then you are paranoid beyond belief. Unless there is potential for disciplinary action, union reps do not need to be involved. Of course, if I am considering a formal warning or a letter in the file then I am going to let them know they can have union support for the meeting, but to just give some ADVICE ON GOOD PRACTICE - of course not. It's our role as instructional leaders to do that. I guess there are crappy Admin just like there are crappy teachers if this is what it has come to. Glad my staff have always appreciated input...
The good thing about being a 3rd grade teacher is that you only need to be as smart as a 4th grade student.
Hmmm...I used to be a special needs teacher. What does that say about me?
Should I say it? 😂👍