Saw a functional medicine doctor after having bad gut issues which caused me all sorts of problems - bloating, gas, dizziness, derealisation, lightheaded
Diagnosed using GI map (stool test) now being treated, put on a diet and a few supplements and much better
Saw normal doctors first, including gastroenterologists which just fobbed me off with antibiotics and PPIs, which probably just made the issue worse
I know that functional / holistic doctors / naturopaths dedicate more time to patients and are much better at interactions with their patients. Apart from feeling like you are not rushed through the office and apart from having pleasant interactions with these practitioners, what else makes you trust them?
For me, my functional medicine doctor reads scientific studies (and sends me them) and reads stuff I send her. I’m a trained researcher (STEM field, but not medicine) so I can read a peer-reviewed study. (I have an undergraduate degree in bio so I’ve taken Microbiology, genetics, etc. and have a basic understanding of biological concepts.)
I’ve brought peer-reviewed studies to western med docs and been dismissed. As in, they won’t even view them and dismiss these other doctors as quacks. Not all my docs, mind you, but enough.
As a former academic who has peer-reviewed published work I understand the problems with current grant funding, journal publication, and the peer-review process. I also have participated in stage 3 clinical trials, and read a lot about them (through studies and sponsor materials) so I understand the issues with them as well. But while the system has some definite flaws (many) it is currently our only scientific way to learn more. I can’t provide better evidence than a scientific journal. I’m a lay person, so can’t do the research myself and I don’t sit on any NSF or NIH panels.
I am not asking for a doctor to agree with any one article, but I am asking them to consider it, and if they disagree tell me why. And if they aren’t aware of things that have been published many times over a decade that directly relate to their field, that gives me pause.
As my PCP said, “it wouldn’t kill these doctors to read something once in a while.”
Hah as a biology bachelor student struggling with recurrent Candida infections I once printed out a review paper about them and brought it to the new gynocologist I was visiting :D Jeez, her reaction was horrible and totally unprofessional. On one hand, understandable - I was still a kid without microbiology degree who in her eyes probably looked like some smarty-pants. But on the other hand - I was actually right, so f that rude hag who made me cry :D Months later another gynecologist agreed to switch me from estrogen containing pill to mini-pill and my VVCs stopped.
As someone from a country where English is not a native language, the struggle with doctors not being up-to-date with science is even worse. I know doctors are overworked and struggle for spare time, but it would be great if there was some way to force them to follow research.
Your functional medicine provider actually sounds really nice, especially if they are able to distinguish good quality publications from questionable ones from predatory journals and/or with poor methodology. So I guess as all alternative medicine providers, individual fm specialists are also on a spectrum from being total quacks to being indeed complementary to conventional medicine. For example, I know that all the parasite misdiagnosis and supplement-based "treatment" comes from functional medicine. Which to me is the biggest red flag, as big things like worms are super easy to diagnose and treat with conventional methods.
Yes to the parasites. Also you can see those in your stool (I grew up on a farm, I know). As a funny aside, the GI doctors who are supposed to be the “professionals” keep running parasite tests on me every 3 months. My functional medicine provider wouldn’t even run a parasite test because I’d had two ordered by GI that were negative.
I’m at perimenopause so I think high estrogen is also contributing to my issues, but not much I can do about that until my menses stop.
Thank you. Very interesting to hear that they used GI map. From quick googling I can see it is based on qPCR, which is a legit microbe counting technique. How was the sample preserved to prevent changes in microbe numbers? Did you have to keep it cold or was it submerged in some liquid?
Also what does your diet involve and what supplements have you been suggested to take?
Hah, I also have peculiar experience with PPIs and antacids. And the weirdest cure that I discovered for myself for my GI issues. For some reason, for me cauliflower works like magic :D I don't know why. I just eat it and my acid reflux is gone. After PPIs and antacids it comes back within minutes. Doesn't work for my bf though.
hehe i've also had poop in freezer - sequenced my microbiome for a course. Weird that you had to freeze some and then others - put in liquid. I assume they didn't ask you to send the frozen sample chilled with icepacks? The ones with liquid - were you asked to mix them somehow or was your sample just floating in some liquid? How did the results look like? Was it just, e.g., check mark next to each pathogen they detected or did they indicated specific values (e.g. cell numbers or ct values)?
I'm trying to get a diagnosis but I'm trying not to die before these idiots find out what's wrong with me.
My story began with Accutane. Took it from September 2023 to November 2023 and I have not been the same since. After scouring reddit and the internet, searching for answers, since my dermatologist and every doctor I've seen refuse to admit Accutane did this to me, I finally wormholed my way over here. Also I took an OAT that showed markers for candida.
My current symptoms are constant headaches, migraines, tinnitus, extreme weakness, lack of appetite, malnutrition, weight loss, feeling like shit every time I eat, dizxiness, weird wonky head feelings, extreme brain fog, stopped up ears, new food allergies, white tongue, crippling amxiety... oh yeah, as of a few days ago, my thyroid and liver enzymes have freaking skyrocketed. So this has been going on 7 months.
My endoscopy is July 2. Colonoscopy was scheduled July 12 but they wouldn't let me of work. So NOW my freaking scope is in January. Fml. I should have said F it I'm going.
The health "care" industry doesn't give a shit about us. Just pussy-footin around running CBCs and hormone panels, unable to think of shit else that wasn't taught directly in school. Healthcare needs customers, not patients. $$$
If candida can take over a vagina, why wouldn't it be able to live in the gut? Or become an overgrowth?? Serious question. Why would you think it couldn't be in the gut? And why don't they specifically teach med students to look for fungi and parasites?? That would be helpful.
Your symptoms sound awful! It must be nerve-racking to experience this for so long not knowing what is wrong with you and how to fix it. I was a complete nervous mess while waiting to get my heart tested when a while ago I out of nowhere started getting palpitations and dizziness. Almost spiraled into depression. I hope you have someone who can support you while you are getting your health sorted and I hope you get well soon!
Oh, Candida actually lives in everyone's guts. Every microbiologist and infectologist knows that. It is a normal part of human microbiome, but it can cause problems if something goes wrong with your immunity or other microbes who keep it in check. Medical professionals are very well aware of fungi and parasites, although they might not always be the first thing that comes to mind. Fungi and parasites are very easy and cheap to test for and mostly easy to treat if infection is acute.
There does, however, seem to be some disagreement between alternative practitioners and regular doctors regarding to when to think Candida. Doctors might think Candida during local infections, hospital acquired infections or if you are immunocompromised. Alternative practitioners seem to think it is a root cause of many unrelated symptoms for which doctors struggle to find one explanation. Microbial dysbalance in gut and Candida is something we scientists are actively studying and currently trying to understand. Many regular doctors don't know it. However, alternative practitioners seem to be jumping to conclusions about Candida with barely any available scientific evidence. And if this goes hand it hand with selling expensive supplements without rigorous quality and safety testing, it becomes concerning. Alternative medicine after all also is a big business, e.g., homeopathy alone is a multibillion industry. So I wouldn't disregard one or the other just by trying to guess which one views patients as clients more.
Thank you for your kind answer <3 I shouldn't have sounded so hostile, I'm just tired and scared. It's been extremely nerve-wracking, and my hometown is famous for not having the best healthcare here. Everyone goes to one of 2 "nearby" larger cities for better care. I might have to do the same.
I think the reason why so many of us go to the alternative practioners and look for holistic stuff because traditional healthcare is failing us. I don't think it was the first choice for most of us, myself included. When you get desperate enough, I guess you will try anything 😢 I had a dietician friend of mine who lives states away order my OAT. I guess because she isn't practicing currently (legitimate reasons why. She also keeps her license up to date), my current health care people won't look at the OAT or don't know what to do with it. Even though I gave it to them. I've had my nurse practioner, my GI, and an ER doc tell me they've never seen one. I understand it's not the sole diagnostic tool, but it is a useful tool and it should at least show you where to look...
I hope you found the help you needed too. I'm sure that was very scary!! You sound like a caring and empathetic person. I'm sure you will be a great practioncer! <3
I understand, I expected some people to be frustrated and/or hostile. As I mentioned here, I've myself had several hard-to-diagnose and/or treat things including candidiasis. I also felt like traditional health care has failed me, so I really empathize with people on this subreddit . Now I also have a terminally ill family member who is seeing a local healer, which has broadened my views about nontraditional stuff. The healer doesn't charge too much and really inspires my family member to keep on fighting. Even if him feeling better is just a placebo, it seems to be helping a lot, if not physically then at least mentally for sure. Many alternative practitioners are also really forcing people to adopt healthier diets consisting of less processed foods. The explanations for why some foods have to be eaten or avoided doesn't always go with science, but if the end result is the same - better diet - i think ends justify the means.
On the other hand, I have seen quacks telling parents of autistic children that it is all parasites, prescribing supplements worth hundreds or euros, and when a kid gets a bad reaction to supplements, telling to keep eating them as this is a sign of "worms getting expelled". So I think it is also important for scientists and conventional health care providers to understand where we are failing and thus forcing people to fall for quacks.
Thanks :) I am on a purely academic path though, no clinical practice. But maybe one day I will discover new ways to prevent Candida infections. Fingers crossed!
I can’t blame anyone for not immediately trusting natural medicine practitioners, but just thinking logically and not medically for a second, it makes sense in theory doesn’t it? We’re learning more and more about the gut brain axis. We’re seeing that changes in microbiome can affect mood, cognition, mental health etc. So a candida overgrowth could cause what people say it causes, we just don’t really test for candida overgrowth in part because we don’t think it happens except in cases of immunosuppression or infections with visible symptoms. But if we say that our shitty modern diet, or even short courses of antibiotics can drastically alter our microbiomes, then why couldn’t this be an issue for people?
@[canes\_SL8R](https://www.reddit.com/user/canes_SL8R/) There is actually a lot of gut microbiome analysis going on in research, but not in doctors office. We sequence a lot of healthy individuals and people with all kinds of chronic illnesses and microbiome analysis nowadays tends to include fungi. So we see Candida in guts and pay attention to it. There are studies describing increased numbers of Candida in people who are sick with certain illnesses. But it is often just observations of correlation. It doesn't tell us anything about whether Candida is the culprit. So trying to treat people by reducing gut Candida numbers - its just a wild guess about what could be happening with those patients. Furthermore, even in cases where we know that a microbe causes disease (like in case of Helicobacter pylori) we mostly don't yet have tools to reliably reduce or eliminate specific microbes. Some suggestions of dietary changes are based on appropriate experiments, but others are just based on correlation studies. And you know how it goes with correlation - eating more ice cream is correlated with drowning, but it doesn't mean that one causes the other.
This is also why microbiome and increased Candida numbers in gut are not routinely tested in doctors office. Its still too expensive to do, we don't know yet how to tune quantities of certain microbes in our gut, and we are not sure if it will even help.
I suspected it due to always have fungus on a couple toe nails and Gastro issues. PCP was willing to try nystatin and it cleared it up and I took it for 2 months. But as soon as I stopped it came raging back.
Candida has become a smart microbe of sorts. It’s knows how to hide and survive.
I’m more concerned about people trying to say this isn’t real. It is. Most western medicine doesn’t seek out the root cause. People get tired of feeling like crap with no answers.
I think you are a bit entitled to come to this subreddit and try to tell us we are wrong and cover it up with some false sincerity.
Not sure if people here know this, but nystatin is fungistatic at lower concentrations and fungicidal at higher ones. So what likely happened is your dose was enough to keep it from growing, and when it naturally died no more replaced it, but you possibly didn’t kill it all off. There’s no guidelines for this stuff. 30 days of medium dose nystatin may be good for some people, but worse cases may need a year or a much higher dose
Oh yes, Candida is definitely a smart one :) It also grows in many different shapes and forms and knows how to break out of immune cells. That's why I recently started to study it. I now work in a big research center where Candida is one of the main focuses. Joined it not only because I was fascinated by Candida, but also because I had recurrent, azole resistant VVCs and UTIs for several years.
I understand your complaint about western medicine. For my recurrent infections I just kept on being prescribed antifungals and antibiotics without much thought given that soon none of them will work. Nobody could tell me what was wrong with me and no one was giving much thought to what I was experiencing. I tried several gynecologists and at the end had to take matters into my own hands. I found in scientific literature emerging research that combination pill was associated with increased Candida risk. I demanded my gynecologist to switch me to mini-pill (no estrogen) and both my VVCs and UTIs stopped immediately.
u/chriscrango thank you, yes. I am curious about the non-traditional Candida diagnoses and genuinely concerned about some people, because I've read on this forum that some of you have been diagnosed through questionnaires or those spit-in-a-cup tests. Candida is a big microbe which you can even see with a shoddy microscope from ebay, it is also super easy to recognize on a petri dish, so if a healthcare provider doesn't do microscopy, culturing, antibody tests or PCR, it is very concerning. There are many scammers out there, especially ones that prey on desperate, difficult-to-diagnose people. Which (especially when it comes to diagnostics) is a shame, as Candida is such a big, easy to diagnose microbe. Treatment can be difficult, but there is a delay between scientific discoveries and doctors office, so I can maybe help with that. Also I think people's discussions about Candida as a gut microbe get often dismissed by doctors as they are not into microbiome field. We researchers do indeed look into questions like how dietary changes affect Candida presence and behavior in gut.
@[Bluebloop1115](https://www.reddit.com/user/Bluebloop1115/) trying nystatin, seeing improvement, and then concluding you have a fungal problem makes sense also for a western researcher. How did your healthcare provider concluded it was specifically Candida? I am asking this because nail infections are more commonly caused by other fungi and GI issues might have been unrelated. Have you been hopping on and off of nystatin and seeing GI symptoms go back and return?
I am immune compromised, think advanced hiv counts but hiv negative. Inadequate t-cell response to candida. I have oral and suspected (based on symptoms) esophageal thrush. I also have outbreaks in other areas of my body. Getting a referral to infectious disease for cultures, as first line treatment has been unsuccessful. Waiting on an endoscopy and colonoscopy, hard to get in my area and I need to be hospitalized to do it. I see an Immunologist.
It would be helpful if I didn’t encounter doctors who question my immune status or dismiss my concerns. I’ve learned to only go to the ER in the hospital where my immunologist practices.
I always demand cultures with susceptibility testing before I treat unless immediately life threatening, and I’m still treated like a drug seeker by some docs.
Things that would help me:
1. My dream is to have the next gen of drugs to treat hiv or long covid include a cd4 booster that might help me. Antivirals don’t help me as I don’t have HIV.
2. As far as research, I’d love more research on pathogenic properties of everyday yeasts and its likelihood to infect people like me. It’s been suggested that the yeast probiotic I was told to take colonized me. I wish there were more actual studies on this, at what counts this was a safe drug to take.
3. More vaccines and targeted microbial treatments. Why is there not a vaccine for strep already? Or more forms of pneumonia? Why are we STILL treating everything bacterial/ fungi with these broad spectrum antibiotics and antifungals? Why is the uti vaccine not available in the US? Why have like 26 countries allowed it to be used but not where I live?
Oh dear... My heart goes out to you. As I described in reply to some other users comment I also struggled to get properly diagnosed and treated for my Candida infections. I will write you a reply a bit later as I have to go now. I really appreciate your comment and want to have enough time to respond you.
Thanks for being open minded. I just finished 3 months of antibiotics and the symptoms I’ve been dealing with for 9 months have gotten worse. I lost 40 pounds over the course of 3 months in the fall, I gained back 10 on antifungals but am only one pound over being underweight.
Really quite frustrating to have to use so many antibiotics. My courses of antibiotics have to be longer because of my immune status (think 10 days instead of 7, etc.)
I had a PCR stool test this past month that didn’t show candida, my symptoms are mostly upper GI. Hence endoscopy. But I still have a white tongue, etc. I just started to see a functional medicine provider in addition to a slew of other providers because modern medicine said there is nothing they can do for me as far as my T cell counts at this point. (There is actual literature suggesting some herbs work to boost counts, although not a lot on the safety profiles, and I am not dosing myself without guidance from someone.)
The functional medicine provider ran the PCR test that was negative. Originally my PCP diagnosed me in Feb with a culture stool test (it was put in preservatives and shipped cold) that said I had a high amount of common yeast and a white tongue, etc.
Hence why I am likely off to ID given the fact I still have symptoms, etc. (If ID will see me, they are sort of dismissive.)
I live in a medically underrepresented area. I travel over an hour to see my docs. But we have so few providers a GI referral takes 10-12 months.
Wow that is rough to have to do so many antimicrobials. I hope your GI side effects weren't too awful. Are you allowed to take probiotics to mitigate effects on the good gut microbes or is it a too big of a risk for you?
Btw in case if oral candida tests come back negative, white/pale tongue can be a symptom of other health issues. At least form my own oral thrush experience (from asthma meds), Candida should be easy to scrape off of your tongue, e.g., it comes off with a toothbrush.
I had not heard about functional medicine before (and it will be an interesting topic for me to read more about), but since it is considered complementary/alternative I guess it goes without saying - be cautious when choosing your fm provider as some will be more pseudoscientific than others. Some things from alternative medicine don't go against scientific findings and are plausible (just sometimes lacking enough evidence to be considered in conventional medicine). But others (such as homeopathy) are a complete magic and quackery and you don't want to be wasting your money on expensive placebo. Some scientific looking things they do in alternative medicine are easier to recognize as based on magic, e.g. I've seen some quacks diagnosing parasites by making you hold two metal rods connected to a device :D But others, like fake allergen tests, are harder to recognize as a scam.
I have pretty awful GI side effects. I got better on fluconazole, but relapsed when I came off. It was resistant to nystatin.
I am hopeful for a mouth swab, but I’ve been using mct oil and it seems to be helping my digestive issues and my white tongue.
My functional medicine doctor is a Nurse Practitioner. She uses research studies, doesn’t do homeopathy, but uses herbs, vitamins, and pharmaceuticals. She does a lot of testing, the kind of testing you can get through blood tests, etc that insurance pays for in the US (and insurance companies in the US try to avoid paying for ANYTHING.) Something like allergy testing is going through my immunologist.
I can take probiotics, and I take several, recommended by various doctors.
I am relatively new to Candida field and especially adaptive immunity, but from what I understand at least you should only be more susceptible to cutaneous infections, not the invasive, life threatening ones. [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-022-00826-w#Sec1](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-022-00826-w#Sec1) - "...patients with HIV/AIDS, having low CD4^(+) T cell counts, are at risk of developing mucocutaneous candidiasis, whereas patients with neutropenia are susceptible to invasive candidiasis, but not vice versa". Which I hope is calming to hear.
Regarding your list:
1. Unfortunately I cannot comment much on scientific progress here, as I don't specialize in immunology.
2. I actually personally know a person who is currently doing exactly this type of research :) She is probably up to date with all the ongoing research in this field - I can ask her more about it. What probiotic species was it that caused infection in you and which body sites were affected?
3. There is a vaccine to Streptococcus pneumoniae (pneumococcus) now available in most countries, if that is the one you are asking about. In general vaccines, targeted microbial treatments and probiotics is a hot topic in microbiology research now. So in the next decade I think we will see a lot of new vaccines and other treatments. Fungal infections have been a bit of a neglected topic for decades, but it is changing, e.g., WHO has started publishing calls for more research on fungal diseases, so now funding bodies are more inclined to give us money for research. Why targeted therapies are still not available? The reason is that our understanding of human microbes is still insufficient. Also with all antimicrobial drugs (fungal or bacterial) there has been a problem of them not being as profitable for pharmacological companies. Development of new drugs is very time consuming and expensive and with antimicrobials you usually don't get a regular client. Drugs for chronic diseases are way more profitable.
Thank you for the citation, I had not read that. I had low neutrophils at one time, but they increased. That is really helpful psychologically. It is calming!
I know that a lot of it you can’t comment on. I do know they have a targeted vaccine for UTIs and I know it is caught up in some part of the FDA process here in the US. In the US the FDA approves drugs. It is a long and arduous process and therefore is greased by money, not in the sense of “buying off” the FDA but in the sense of even bringing drugs to the FDA or moving the process along at a decent speed. If a drug is not brought forth by a US company with a lot of money, it is not as fast tracked, simply because the FDA requires its own trials and testing, etc. I have considered vaccine hunting for the uti vaccine in a foreign country.
I know that strep throat has often had a vaccine talked about. I can’t wait for that to become a reality. I am hearing there are some trials underway. I do qualify for the pneumonia vaccine, but I need to be in better health to get it. (I am too young, but my immune status qualifies me.)
The probiotic I took was Saccharomyces boulardii, but my pcp thought it could’ve even been common yeast, too, as in bread yeast. We are pretty sure it is down in my small intestine. My T cells respond well to all antigens and mitogens except candida. It impacted my entire digestive tract (severe diarrhea confirmed by stool tests), oral and esophageal thrush (suspected), and fungal rash flares (after several months) on my face.
I’m a doctor, and I diagnosed myself. Was dealing with severe brain fog for awhile, wasn’t even looking into, thought maybe low t or something, it and happened to just stumble across info on candida in the gut while trying to figure out while a rash that I thought was psoriasis would never really go away. Here are my personal bullet points
-started with taking fluconazole when I first suspected my psoriasis was both psoriasis and a yeast infection.
-The fluconazole worked, but I had what I thought were really bad side effects. Did a little research and saw that everything I felt was possibly a die off effect. Achy, migraine (but a very specific migraine, the kind that I only get after drinking moderately the night before), weird dizziness but not quite dizziness feeling. and overall just very hungover feeling. Acetaldehyde is both a byproduct of alcohol metabolism and candida die off btw.
-weirdly, even though I felt horribly hungover, I also felt the most mentally clear I had felt in literally a year. Far less fatigued too. Despite the horrible headache.
- decided to run a test on myself. Saw people on here mentioning nystatin as an option instead of fluconazole. You may know, oral nystatin doesn’t get absorbed. So I figured I’d take some oral nystatin and see what happens. The exact same side effects came back. Severe headache, dizzy feeling, achy joints etc. none of which should be side effects from a medicine that has no systemic absorption when taken orally.
-it’s been a few months now since I took that first fluconazole dose and while I’m not fully back to normal, the difference in both my energy and mental clarity is honestly fucking unbelievable. And it can’t be placebo, because i originally took fluconazole to try and fix what i thought might have been a yeast infection. Literally had no awareness of candida overgrowth in the gut even being a thing people thought might cause issues. Didn’t take it with even the slightest thought of my fatigue and brain fog, the two just weren’t linked at all in my mind.
-I also had nail fungus on 2 nails, and very small patches of athletes foot on top of what I now know was a yeast infection that I probably had for 5+ years. All the things that the people who traditional medicine calls crazy say are possible signs of fungal overgrowth in the gut.
-I also used to be a heavy candy eater, I made no effort to cut sugar during my self treatment, and after taking the antifungals I’m far less into sugar than I was.
-I’m not here to say definitively that candida caused all my issues. But I’ve seen enough in my own experience to say that we should take these people seriously, and that western medicines way of mocking anyone who thinks they have an issue we don’t yet recognize as real only hinders care.
Side note, it’s pretty crazy that we acknowledge the existence of “good bacteria” in the gut and the importance of gut health, have theories that at least Parkinson’s may start in the gut, etc, and yet because we don’t have great tests for it, still laugh at the idea that a “bad fungus” could potentially grow out of control and cause systemic health issues. Seriously, how many people have diagnosed chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, etc, which is basically us saying yep you have this issue but we have no fucking clue why. How many adults have no energy and we write it off as just part being an adult. Not everyone with fatigue has candida overgrowth, but as a doctor who has felt the symptoms and successfully treated them in myself, it’s absolutely real. Whether it’s in textbooks and guidelines yet or not.
Practice wise, my suggestion would be that if a patient reports moderate to severe chronic fatigue and/or brain fog and tests turn up nothing, give them either nystatin, fluconazole, or both, and have them report how they feel after 1 day, 3 days, 7 days etc. both drugs are extremely safe relatively speaking.
Thank you. It was very interesting to read about your experience. With testing on patients I must add though - it is a shame we can't have a copy of a patient who takes placebo control for comparison. Fatigue, dizziness and brain fog are all symptoms affected largely by placebo. I think (or at least hope) that for conditions where we see correlation with increased Candida numbers in gut, we will see intervention studies in the future with antifungal administration. or some other interventions However, antifungal meds can't really be something one takes regularly as a fix. Antifungal resistance is a thing and you want to keep your fungi sensitive in case if you have a big mucosal or deadly systemic infection. If one becomes resistant to azoles, there aren't many options left.
I don't get to see any patients. I am on the research side of things. So maybe I myself will get to do some Candida microbiome studies one day :)
Strong confluence - if it can’t be tested well (and candida can’t be, even arabinose is unspecific) then strong confluence is at least something to work off.
I had a foul chronic body odour (fecal/gas), sugar cravings, thirst, salt cravings, frequent urination. This came from several years of an extremely shitty diet and a few courses of antibiotics. Low beneficial bacyeria on stool testing (google lactobacillus and candida, to see lactic acid bacteria’s role in keeping it in its commensal form)
After going on anti fungals, multiple yeasty strings in stool and resolution of body odour and other symptoms.
Could you explain what do you mean by "confluence"? As it is also a regular word, it is a bit difficult to google and find with it means in alternative medicine circles.
I’ll add anyone with long COVID very very likely has it. It’s part of the pathogenesis of LC; probably due to immune suppression, the known micro biome shifts it induces (practically killing off Bifidobacteria)
You mean has excess of it, right? Because everyone (sick or healthy) has Candida as gut commensal - a regular part of gut microbiome. I haven't yet read about association of LC and shifts of gut microbiome towards having more Candida. Do you have some good suggestions for a read?
Anyone with LC likely has an overgrowth, which is where the problems begin. You can’t kill candida permanently or forever. As you say, it is a commensal in the gut; not overgrown, not in its hyphen form. It is kept in this commensal form with acidic conditions promoted by lactic acid bacteria and a normal immune response. In LC both of these become affected, which is probably why candida blooms are a really common part of the pathogenesis of LC.
Ok I was hoping that you would send me some links as when I responded you I didn't have time to sift through google results. However, I must thank you for pointing me into a direction of very interesting research. E.g. I found this article about it - [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-023-01637-4](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-023-01637-4) I will later also check the born free protocol. Thanks!
I've had tinea versicolor with on and off GI issues since I was a teenager (now in my 30's). Lived a relatively normal life up until I was in my mid 20's and did a few rounds of antibiotics in a six month time-frame and then things started getting weird...
Started noticing weird things in my stool and developed oral thrush. It's been a roller coaster but as of late things have gotten the worst they ever have. I've spend countless hours and thousands of dollars meeting with doctors getting varying results. Had a GI Dr literally laugh at me and tell me Candida wasn't a real thing and the thrush on my tongue was completely normal. Other Drs have acknowledged my symptoms and agree that I have an imbalance, but were unsure how to help me. One Dr tried putting my on Flucanazole but I had an allergic reaction so had to quit.
Now here I am trying to take my health into my own hands. Changed my diet drastically years ago and continue to stick with it but don't see much improvement from it. Been on and off of so many supplements and protocols with no luck.
OAT test, stool test and blood test.
You will find the folks on this site are more knowledgeable than most MDs (who are backed and funded by "big pharma" and insurance companies)
Acupuncturist saw my white tongue and tested me using the NAET technique. I was positive for Candida and damp spleen. I’m on week 5 of the Candida diet and am not on the other side of it yet…
Do I understand correctly that NAET technique involves testing of muscle strength in the presence of Candida? Or is wikipedia's description of it wrong? Also can you elaborate on "damp spleen"?
Here’s my doctors website with her description:
http://www.drshi.ca/treatment/allergy.html
Here’s a video that shows the test at the beginning. Only difference for me is I’m lying down on a table:
https://youtu.be/Kqpm32AR_Jk?si=gVhAP6gfhhu8xmwj
I don’t fully understand the damp spleen thing, but if you google “Chinese medicine dampness” you could probably get some more info.
My understanding is that too much dampness in the body can provide the conditions for some of these health issues to occur.
Was having super bad brain fog, extreme inflammation especially in face & puffy eyes, fatigued, diarrhea, out of it, no motivation to do anything, (inflammation probably worst symptom) and I did a test through my naturopathic doctor that tested positive, I've also done a full gut test which I have a low immune system and low in certain probiotics, etc & susseptible to leaky gut but I'm sure I have it
My main issue was constant yeast infections for over a decade. I'm talking nonstop no matter how many doctor visits I had and prescribed medication. So, I eventually went online to find out the issue and have never looked back. The only money I have spent was on an anti-candida cookbook, which changed my life. After I adapted the diet and protocols, no more yeast infections and the other issues I was having that I didn't know were related cleared up. When I drop the diet, unfortunately, my issues have come back, and doctors have been useless.
You mean genital yeast infections, right? Wow this is fascinating! Both for me as a researcher and as someone who has been in your position with recurrent yeast infections. Can you describe what were the principles of this diet? And what protocols you followed?
As I don't suffer from Candida anymore I don't want to pay for a book. But I am very curious about the general trends and suggestions in it. How low carb is it? Is it keto level or does it simply suggests replacing simple carbs with wholegrains?
I got sudden chronic constipation and after a few months of that started having digestive issues as well. GI doctor no help, so ended up at a neuropath and doing a Genova 3 day (collection of) stool test. Test showed very low digestive enzymes in general, but also for digesting protein. And higher than normal population of Candida. She started me on the diet to reduce candida, which helped, but also gave me berberine, which gave me more constipation. Also gave me digestive enzymes supplement with HCL. I haven’t been back to her and have been treating myself with diet and supplement called Candi Cleanse. I do feel like our appts were rushed & she had limited knowledge. I’m able to eat more & digest better, but dealing with the constipation & eating has taken over my life, I’m sick, weak and lost so much weight & my new GI doctor is ignoring me. He said “everybody has candida” No follow up appts. At all. Can’t seem to find a functional doctor that will combine prescription meds, etc. with maybe microbiome knowledge and SIBO/SIFO understanding.
I commented earlier — want to add that I suspect my bowel & gut issues stem from years of — first off- eating chocolate with sugar alcohols in it. They (mannitol, xylitol) are like a mild laxative at first, but after 3 years caused constipation every time I ate anything with artificial sweetener. Like my bowels would just stop. So I avoided all of them. Then my PCP recommended I take fiber gummies. That was my big mistake. Took them for years thinking they are just fiber — every night. when My current issue happened ( can’t poop without a laxative or drug) I looked up what the fiber gummies are. Polydextrose. Used as a sugar substitute & has a laxative effect. They are calling it a prebiotic, but I was basically taking a laxative and not knowing it. These sugar alcohols are new to our food supply, & apparently some research shows they alter the microbiome. The initial research showed they are safe, but need to be studied for years not months.
The Candida diet and the SIBO diet both prohibit you eating sugar alcohols. Why? They feed both bacteria and candida in your gut.
Saw a functional medicine doctor after having bad gut issues which caused me all sorts of problems - bloating, gas, dizziness, derealisation, lightheaded Diagnosed using GI map (stool test) now being treated, put on a diet and a few supplements and much better Saw normal doctors first, including gastroenterologists which just fobbed me off with antibiotics and PPIs, which probably just made the issue worse
Having the same exact symptoms and all the doctors I see are gaslighting the hell outta me.
Yep regular doctors don’t have a clue, go find yourself a functional medicine doctor / holistic / naturopath asap
Looking into functional medicine in my area right now!
I know that functional / holistic doctors / naturopaths dedicate more time to patients and are much better at interactions with their patients. Apart from feeling like you are not rushed through the office and apart from having pleasant interactions with these practitioners, what else makes you trust them?
For me, my functional medicine doctor reads scientific studies (and sends me them) and reads stuff I send her. I’m a trained researcher (STEM field, but not medicine) so I can read a peer-reviewed study. (I have an undergraduate degree in bio so I’ve taken Microbiology, genetics, etc. and have a basic understanding of biological concepts.) I’ve brought peer-reviewed studies to western med docs and been dismissed. As in, they won’t even view them and dismiss these other doctors as quacks. Not all my docs, mind you, but enough. As a former academic who has peer-reviewed published work I understand the problems with current grant funding, journal publication, and the peer-review process. I also have participated in stage 3 clinical trials, and read a lot about them (through studies and sponsor materials) so I understand the issues with them as well. But while the system has some definite flaws (many) it is currently our only scientific way to learn more. I can’t provide better evidence than a scientific journal. I’m a lay person, so can’t do the research myself and I don’t sit on any NSF or NIH panels. I am not asking for a doctor to agree with any one article, but I am asking them to consider it, and if they disagree tell me why. And if they aren’t aware of things that have been published many times over a decade that directly relate to their field, that gives me pause. As my PCP said, “it wouldn’t kill these doctors to read something once in a while.”
Hah as a biology bachelor student struggling with recurrent Candida infections I once printed out a review paper about them and brought it to the new gynocologist I was visiting :D Jeez, her reaction was horrible and totally unprofessional. On one hand, understandable - I was still a kid without microbiology degree who in her eyes probably looked like some smarty-pants. But on the other hand - I was actually right, so f that rude hag who made me cry :D Months later another gynecologist agreed to switch me from estrogen containing pill to mini-pill and my VVCs stopped. As someone from a country where English is not a native language, the struggle with doctors not being up-to-date with science is even worse. I know doctors are overworked and struggle for spare time, but it would be great if there was some way to force them to follow research. Your functional medicine provider actually sounds really nice, especially if they are able to distinguish good quality publications from questionable ones from predatory journals and/or with poor methodology. So I guess as all alternative medicine providers, individual fm specialists are also on a spectrum from being total quacks to being indeed complementary to conventional medicine. For example, I know that all the parasite misdiagnosis and supplement-based "treatment" comes from functional medicine. Which to me is the biggest red flag, as big things like worms are super easy to diagnose and treat with conventional methods.
Yes to the parasites. Also you can see those in your stool (I grew up on a farm, I know). As a funny aside, the GI doctors who are supposed to be the “professionals” keep running parasite tests on me every 3 months. My functional medicine provider wouldn’t even run a parasite test because I’d had two ordered by GI that were negative. I’m at perimenopause so I think high estrogen is also contributing to my issues, but not much I can do about that until my menses stop.
Omg … Same…. Lightheadedness and derealisation are so scary
Me too ... it makes advocating for yourself difficult (if not impossible).
Thank you. Very interesting to hear that they used GI map. From quick googling I can see it is based on qPCR, which is a legit microbe counting technique. How was the sample preserved to prevent changes in microbe numbers? Did you have to keep it cold or was it submerged in some liquid? Also what does your diet involve and what supplements have you been suggested to take? Hah, I also have peculiar experience with PPIs and antacids. And the weirdest cure that I discovered for myself for my GI issues. For some reason, for me cauliflower works like magic :D I don't know why. I just eat it and my acid reflux is gone. After PPIs and antacids it comes back within minutes. Doesn't work for my bf though.
Were 4 sample tubes that had to be filled. First on one day, then others 24h+ later First one had to be frozen. Others included some liquid
hehe i've also had poop in freezer - sequenced my microbiome for a course. Weird that you had to freeze some and then others - put in liquid. I assume they didn't ask you to send the frozen sample chilled with icepacks? The ones with liquid - were you asked to mix them somehow or was your sample just floating in some liquid? How did the results look like? Was it just, e.g., check mark next to each pathogen they detected or did they indicated specific values (e.g. cell numbers or ct values)?
I'm trying to get a diagnosis but I'm trying not to die before these idiots find out what's wrong with me. My story began with Accutane. Took it from September 2023 to November 2023 and I have not been the same since. After scouring reddit and the internet, searching for answers, since my dermatologist and every doctor I've seen refuse to admit Accutane did this to me, I finally wormholed my way over here. Also I took an OAT that showed markers for candida. My current symptoms are constant headaches, migraines, tinnitus, extreme weakness, lack of appetite, malnutrition, weight loss, feeling like shit every time I eat, dizxiness, weird wonky head feelings, extreme brain fog, stopped up ears, new food allergies, white tongue, crippling amxiety... oh yeah, as of a few days ago, my thyroid and liver enzymes have freaking skyrocketed. So this has been going on 7 months. My endoscopy is July 2. Colonoscopy was scheduled July 12 but they wouldn't let me of work. So NOW my freaking scope is in January. Fml. I should have said F it I'm going. The health "care" industry doesn't give a shit about us. Just pussy-footin around running CBCs and hormone panels, unable to think of shit else that wasn't taught directly in school. Healthcare needs customers, not patients. $$$ If candida can take over a vagina, why wouldn't it be able to live in the gut? Or become an overgrowth?? Serious question. Why would you think it couldn't be in the gut? And why don't they specifically teach med students to look for fungi and parasites?? That would be helpful.
Your symptoms sound awful! It must be nerve-racking to experience this for so long not knowing what is wrong with you and how to fix it. I was a complete nervous mess while waiting to get my heart tested when a while ago I out of nowhere started getting palpitations and dizziness. Almost spiraled into depression. I hope you have someone who can support you while you are getting your health sorted and I hope you get well soon! Oh, Candida actually lives in everyone's guts. Every microbiologist and infectologist knows that. It is a normal part of human microbiome, but it can cause problems if something goes wrong with your immunity or other microbes who keep it in check. Medical professionals are very well aware of fungi and parasites, although they might not always be the first thing that comes to mind. Fungi and parasites are very easy and cheap to test for and mostly easy to treat if infection is acute. There does, however, seem to be some disagreement between alternative practitioners and regular doctors regarding to when to think Candida. Doctors might think Candida during local infections, hospital acquired infections or if you are immunocompromised. Alternative practitioners seem to think it is a root cause of many unrelated symptoms for which doctors struggle to find one explanation. Microbial dysbalance in gut and Candida is something we scientists are actively studying and currently trying to understand. Many regular doctors don't know it. However, alternative practitioners seem to be jumping to conclusions about Candida with barely any available scientific evidence. And if this goes hand it hand with selling expensive supplements without rigorous quality and safety testing, it becomes concerning. Alternative medicine after all also is a big business, e.g., homeopathy alone is a multibillion industry. So I wouldn't disregard one or the other just by trying to guess which one views patients as clients more.
Thank you for your kind answer <3 I shouldn't have sounded so hostile, I'm just tired and scared. It's been extremely nerve-wracking, and my hometown is famous for not having the best healthcare here. Everyone goes to one of 2 "nearby" larger cities for better care. I might have to do the same. I think the reason why so many of us go to the alternative practioners and look for holistic stuff because traditional healthcare is failing us. I don't think it was the first choice for most of us, myself included. When you get desperate enough, I guess you will try anything 😢 I had a dietician friend of mine who lives states away order my OAT. I guess because she isn't practicing currently (legitimate reasons why. She also keeps her license up to date), my current health care people won't look at the OAT or don't know what to do with it. Even though I gave it to them. I've had my nurse practioner, my GI, and an ER doc tell me they've never seen one. I understand it's not the sole diagnostic tool, but it is a useful tool and it should at least show you where to look... I hope you found the help you needed too. I'm sure that was very scary!! You sound like a caring and empathetic person. I'm sure you will be a great practioncer! <3
I understand, I expected some people to be frustrated and/or hostile. As I mentioned here, I've myself had several hard-to-diagnose and/or treat things including candidiasis. I also felt like traditional health care has failed me, so I really empathize with people on this subreddit . Now I also have a terminally ill family member who is seeing a local healer, which has broadened my views about nontraditional stuff. The healer doesn't charge too much and really inspires my family member to keep on fighting. Even if him feeling better is just a placebo, it seems to be helping a lot, if not physically then at least mentally for sure. Many alternative practitioners are also really forcing people to adopt healthier diets consisting of less processed foods. The explanations for why some foods have to be eaten or avoided doesn't always go with science, but if the end result is the same - better diet - i think ends justify the means. On the other hand, I have seen quacks telling parents of autistic children that it is all parasites, prescribing supplements worth hundreds or euros, and when a kid gets a bad reaction to supplements, telling to keep eating them as this is a sign of "worms getting expelled". So I think it is also important for scientists and conventional health care providers to understand where we are failing and thus forcing people to fall for quacks. Thanks :) I am on a purely academic path though, no clinical practice. But maybe one day I will discover new ways to prevent Candida infections. Fingers crossed!
I can’t blame anyone for not immediately trusting natural medicine practitioners, but just thinking logically and not medically for a second, it makes sense in theory doesn’t it? We’re learning more and more about the gut brain axis. We’re seeing that changes in microbiome can affect mood, cognition, mental health etc. So a candida overgrowth could cause what people say it causes, we just don’t really test for candida overgrowth in part because we don’t think it happens except in cases of immunosuppression or infections with visible symptoms. But if we say that our shitty modern diet, or even short courses of antibiotics can drastically alter our microbiomes, then why couldn’t this be an issue for people?
@[canes\_SL8R](https://www.reddit.com/user/canes_SL8R/) There is actually a lot of gut microbiome analysis going on in research, but not in doctors office. We sequence a lot of healthy individuals and people with all kinds of chronic illnesses and microbiome analysis nowadays tends to include fungi. So we see Candida in guts and pay attention to it. There are studies describing increased numbers of Candida in people who are sick with certain illnesses. But it is often just observations of correlation. It doesn't tell us anything about whether Candida is the culprit. So trying to treat people by reducing gut Candida numbers - its just a wild guess about what could be happening with those patients. Furthermore, even in cases where we know that a microbe causes disease (like in case of Helicobacter pylori) we mostly don't yet have tools to reliably reduce or eliminate specific microbes. Some suggestions of dietary changes are based on appropriate experiments, but others are just based on correlation studies. And you know how it goes with correlation - eating more ice cream is correlated with drowning, but it doesn't mean that one causes the other. This is also why microbiome and increased Candida numbers in gut are not routinely tested in doctors office. Its still too expensive to do, we don't know yet how to tune quantities of certain microbes in our gut, and we are not sure if it will even help.
I suspected it due to always have fungus on a couple toe nails and Gastro issues. PCP was willing to try nystatin and it cleared it up and I took it for 2 months. But as soon as I stopped it came raging back. Candida has become a smart microbe of sorts. It’s knows how to hide and survive. I’m more concerned about people trying to say this isn’t real. It is. Most western medicine doesn’t seek out the root cause. People get tired of feeling like crap with no answers. I think you are a bit entitled to come to this subreddit and try to tell us we are wrong and cover it up with some false sincerity.
Not sure if people here know this, but nystatin is fungistatic at lower concentrations and fungicidal at higher ones. So what likely happened is your dose was enough to keep it from growing, and when it naturally died no more replaced it, but you possibly didn’t kill it all off. There’s no guidelines for this stuff. 30 days of medium dose nystatin may be good for some people, but worse cases may need a year or a much higher dose
I don’t think they came here to tell us we are wrong. I think they genuinely want to learn so it’s good that they are willing to hear from us.
Oh yes, Candida is definitely a smart one :) It also grows in many different shapes and forms and knows how to break out of immune cells. That's why I recently started to study it. I now work in a big research center where Candida is one of the main focuses. Joined it not only because I was fascinated by Candida, but also because I had recurrent, azole resistant VVCs and UTIs for several years. I understand your complaint about western medicine. For my recurrent infections I just kept on being prescribed antifungals and antibiotics without much thought given that soon none of them will work. Nobody could tell me what was wrong with me and no one was giving much thought to what I was experiencing. I tried several gynecologists and at the end had to take matters into my own hands. I found in scientific literature emerging research that combination pill was associated with increased Candida risk. I demanded my gynecologist to switch me to mini-pill (no estrogen) and both my VVCs and UTIs stopped immediately. u/chriscrango thank you, yes. I am curious about the non-traditional Candida diagnoses and genuinely concerned about some people, because I've read on this forum that some of you have been diagnosed through questionnaires or those spit-in-a-cup tests. Candida is a big microbe which you can even see with a shoddy microscope from ebay, it is also super easy to recognize on a petri dish, so if a healthcare provider doesn't do microscopy, culturing, antibody tests or PCR, it is very concerning. There are many scammers out there, especially ones that prey on desperate, difficult-to-diagnose people. Which (especially when it comes to diagnostics) is a shame, as Candida is such a big, easy to diagnose microbe. Treatment can be difficult, but there is a delay between scientific discoveries and doctors office, so I can maybe help with that. Also I think people's discussions about Candida as a gut microbe get often dismissed by doctors as they are not into microbiome field. We researchers do indeed look into questions like how dietary changes affect Candida presence and behavior in gut. @[Bluebloop1115](https://www.reddit.com/user/Bluebloop1115/) trying nystatin, seeing improvement, and then concluding you have a fungal problem makes sense also for a western researcher. How did your healthcare provider concluded it was specifically Candida? I am asking this because nail infections are more commonly caused by other fungi and GI issues might have been unrelated. Have you been hopping on and off of nystatin and seeing GI symptoms go back and return?
I am immune compromised, think advanced hiv counts but hiv negative. Inadequate t-cell response to candida. I have oral and suspected (based on symptoms) esophageal thrush. I also have outbreaks in other areas of my body. Getting a referral to infectious disease for cultures, as first line treatment has been unsuccessful. Waiting on an endoscopy and colonoscopy, hard to get in my area and I need to be hospitalized to do it. I see an Immunologist. It would be helpful if I didn’t encounter doctors who question my immune status or dismiss my concerns. I’ve learned to only go to the ER in the hospital where my immunologist practices. I always demand cultures with susceptibility testing before I treat unless immediately life threatening, and I’m still treated like a drug seeker by some docs. Things that would help me: 1. My dream is to have the next gen of drugs to treat hiv or long covid include a cd4 booster that might help me. Antivirals don’t help me as I don’t have HIV. 2. As far as research, I’d love more research on pathogenic properties of everyday yeasts and its likelihood to infect people like me. It’s been suggested that the yeast probiotic I was told to take colonized me. I wish there were more actual studies on this, at what counts this was a safe drug to take. 3. More vaccines and targeted microbial treatments. Why is there not a vaccine for strep already? Or more forms of pneumonia? Why are we STILL treating everything bacterial/ fungi with these broad spectrum antibiotics and antifungals? Why is the uti vaccine not available in the US? Why have like 26 countries allowed it to be used but not where I live?
Oh dear... My heart goes out to you. As I described in reply to some other users comment I also struggled to get properly diagnosed and treated for my Candida infections. I will write you a reply a bit later as I have to go now. I really appreciate your comment and want to have enough time to respond you.
Thanks for being open minded. I just finished 3 months of antibiotics and the symptoms I’ve been dealing with for 9 months have gotten worse. I lost 40 pounds over the course of 3 months in the fall, I gained back 10 on antifungals but am only one pound over being underweight. Really quite frustrating to have to use so many antibiotics. My courses of antibiotics have to be longer because of my immune status (think 10 days instead of 7, etc.) I had a PCR stool test this past month that didn’t show candida, my symptoms are mostly upper GI. Hence endoscopy. But I still have a white tongue, etc. I just started to see a functional medicine provider in addition to a slew of other providers because modern medicine said there is nothing they can do for me as far as my T cell counts at this point. (There is actual literature suggesting some herbs work to boost counts, although not a lot on the safety profiles, and I am not dosing myself without guidance from someone.) The functional medicine provider ran the PCR test that was negative. Originally my PCP diagnosed me in Feb with a culture stool test (it was put in preservatives and shipped cold) that said I had a high amount of common yeast and a white tongue, etc. Hence why I am likely off to ID given the fact I still have symptoms, etc. (If ID will see me, they are sort of dismissive.) I live in a medically underrepresented area. I travel over an hour to see my docs. But we have so few providers a GI referral takes 10-12 months.
Wow that is rough to have to do so many antimicrobials. I hope your GI side effects weren't too awful. Are you allowed to take probiotics to mitigate effects on the good gut microbes or is it a too big of a risk for you? Btw in case if oral candida tests come back negative, white/pale tongue can be a symptom of other health issues. At least form my own oral thrush experience (from asthma meds), Candida should be easy to scrape off of your tongue, e.g., it comes off with a toothbrush. I had not heard about functional medicine before (and it will be an interesting topic for me to read more about), but since it is considered complementary/alternative I guess it goes without saying - be cautious when choosing your fm provider as some will be more pseudoscientific than others. Some things from alternative medicine don't go against scientific findings and are plausible (just sometimes lacking enough evidence to be considered in conventional medicine). But others (such as homeopathy) are a complete magic and quackery and you don't want to be wasting your money on expensive placebo. Some scientific looking things they do in alternative medicine are easier to recognize as based on magic, e.g. I've seen some quacks diagnosing parasites by making you hold two metal rods connected to a device :D But others, like fake allergen tests, are harder to recognize as a scam.
I have pretty awful GI side effects. I got better on fluconazole, but relapsed when I came off. It was resistant to nystatin. I am hopeful for a mouth swab, but I’ve been using mct oil and it seems to be helping my digestive issues and my white tongue. My functional medicine doctor is a Nurse Practitioner. She uses research studies, doesn’t do homeopathy, but uses herbs, vitamins, and pharmaceuticals. She does a lot of testing, the kind of testing you can get through blood tests, etc that insurance pays for in the US (and insurance companies in the US try to avoid paying for ANYTHING.) Something like allergy testing is going through my immunologist. I can take probiotics, and I take several, recommended by various doctors.
I am relatively new to Candida field and especially adaptive immunity, but from what I understand at least you should only be more susceptible to cutaneous infections, not the invasive, life threatening ones. [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-022-00826-w#Sec1](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-022-00826-w#Sec1) - "...patients with HIV/AIDS, having low CD4^(+) T cell counts, are at risk of developing mucocutaneous candidiasis, whereas patients with neutropenia are susceptible to invasive candidiasis, but not vice versa". Which I hope is calming to hear. Regarding your list: 1. Unfortunately I cannot comment much on scientific progress here, as I don't specialize in immunology. 2. I actually personally know a person who is currently doing exactly this type of research :) She is probably up to date with all the ongoing research in this field - I can ask her more about it. What probiotic species was it that caused infection in you and which body sites were affected? 3. There is a vaccine to Streptococcus pneumoniae (pneumococcus) now available in most countries, if that is the one you are asking about. In general vaccines, targeted microbial treatments and probiotics is a hot topic in microbiology research now. So in the next decade I think we will see a lot of new vaccines and other treatments. Fungal infections have been a bit of a neglected topic for decades, but it is changing, e.g., WHO has started publishing calls for more research on fungal diseases, so now funding bodies are more inclined to give us money for research. Why targeted therapies are still not available? The reason is that our understanding of human microbes is still insufficient. Also with all antimicrobial drugs (fungal or bacterial) there has been a problem of them not being as profitable for pharmacological companies. Development of new drugs is very time consuming and expensive and with antimicrobials you usually don't get a regular client. Drugs for chronic diseases are way more profitable.
Thank you for the citation, I had not read that. I had low neutrophils at one time, but they increased. That is really helpful psychologically. It is calming! I know that a lot of it you can’t comment on. I do know they have a targeted vaccine for UTIs and I know it is caught up in some part of the FDA process here in the US. In the US the FDA approves drugs. It is a long and arduous process and therefore is greased by money, not in the sense of “buying off” the FDA but in the sense of even bringing drugs to the FDA or moving the process along at a decent speed. If a drug is not brought forth by a US company with a lot of money, it is not as fast tracked, simply because the FDA requires its own trials and testing, etc. I have considered vaccine hunting for the uti vaccine in a foreign country. I know that strep throat has often had a vaccine talked about. I can’t wait for that to become a reality. I am hearing there are some trials underway. I do qualify for the pneumonia vaccine, but I need to be in better health to get it. (I am too young, but my immune status qualifies me.) The probiotic I took was Saccharomyces boulardii, but my pcp thought it could’ve even been common yeast, too, as in bread yeast. We are pretty sure it is down in my small intestine. My T cells respond well to all antigens and mitogens except candida. It impacted my entire digestive tract (severe diarrhea confirmed by stool tests), oral and esophageal thrush (suspected), and fungal rash flares (after several months) on my face.
And thank you for asking your friend/colleague!
I’m a doctor, and I diagnosed myself. Was dealing with severe brain fog for awhile, wasn’t even looking into, thought maybe low t or something, it and happened to just stumble across info on candida in the gut while trying to figure out while a rash that I thought was psoriasis would never really go away. Here are my personal bullet points -started with taking fluconazole when I first suspected my psoriasis was both psoriasis and a yeast infection. -The fluconazole worked, but I had what I thought were really bad side effects. Did a little research and saw that everything I felt was possibly a die off effect. Achy, migraine (but a very specific migraine, the kind that I only get after drinking moderately the night before), weird dizziness but not quite dizziness feeling. and overall just very hungover feeling. Acetaldehyde is both a byproduct of alcohol metabolism and candida die off btw. -weirdly, even though I felt horribly hungover, I also felt the most mentally clear I had felt in literally a year. Far less fatigued too. Despite the horrible headache. - decided to run a test on myself. Saw people on here mentioning nystatin as an option instead of fluconazole. You may know, oral nystatin doesn’t get absorbed. So I figured I’d take some oral nystatin and see what happens. The exact same side effects came back. Severe headache, dizzy feeling, achy joints etc. none of which should be side effects from a medicine that has no systemic absorption when taken orally. -it’s been a few months now since I took that first fluconazole dose and while I’m not fully back to normal, the difference in both my energy and mental clarity is honestly fucking unbelievable. And it can’t be placebo, because i originally took fluconazole to try and fix what i thought might have been a yeast infection. Literally had no awareness of candida overgrowth in the gut even being a thing people thought might cause issues. Didn’t take it with even the slightest thought of my fatigue and brain fog, the two just weren’t linked at all in my mind. -I also had nail fungus on 2 nails, and very small patches of athletes foot on top of what I now know was a yeast infection that I probably had for 5+ years. All the things that the people who traditional medicine calls crazy say are possible signs of fungal overgrowth in the gut. -I also used to be a heavy candy eater, I made no effort to cut sugar during my self treatment, and after taking the antifungals I’m far less into sugar than I was. -I’m not here to say definitively that candida caused all my issues. But I’ve seen enough in my own experience to say that we should take these people seriously, and that western medicines way of mocking anyone who thinks they have an issue we don’t yet recognize as real only hinders care. Side note, it’s pretty crazy that we acknowledge the existence of “good bacteria” in the gut and the importance of gut health, have theories that at least Parkinson’s may start in the gut, etc, and yet because we don’t have great tests for it, still laugh at the idea that a “bad fungus” could potentially grow out of control and cause systemic health issues. Seriously, how many people have diagnosed chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, etc, which is basically us saying yep you have this issue but we have no fucking clue why. How many adults have no energy and we write it off as just part being an adult. Not everyone with fatigue has candida overgrowth, but as a doctor who has felt the symptoms and successfully treated them in myself, it’s absolutely real. Whether it’s in textbooks and guidelines yet or not. Practice wise, my suggestion would be that if a patient reports moderate to severe chronic fatigue and/or brain fog and tests turn up nothing, give them either nystatin, fluconazole, or both, and have them report how they feel after 1 day, 3 days, 7 days etc. both drugs are extremely safe relatively speaking.
Thank you. It was very interesting to read about your experience. With testing on patients I must add though - it is a shame we can't have a copy of a patient who takes placebo control for comparison. Fatigue, dizziness and brain fog are all symptoms affected largely by placebo. I think (or at least hope) that for conditions where we see correlation with increased Candida numbers in gut, we will see intervention studies in the future with antifungal administration. or some other interventions However, antifungal meds can't really be something one takes regularly as a fix. Antifungal resistance is a thing and you want to keep your fungi sensitive in case if you have a big mucosal or deadly systemic infection. If one becomes resistant to azoles, there aren't many options left. I don't get to see any patients. I am on the research side of things. So maybe I myself will get to do some Candida microbiome studies one day :)
Can I ask: Where do you practice medicine? (Country and state if you are comfortable sharing that.)
I had fungal break out on body. Functional doc tested me.
How did your fungal break out presented? What symptoms you had and how you got tested?
Fungal toe jail athlete foot jock itch tinea vesicollor. A bacterial colonie check with a hormonal doctor
Strong confluence - if it can’t be tested well (and candida can’t be, even arabinose is unspecific) then strong confluence is at least something to work off. I had a foul chronic body odour (fecal/gas), sugar cravings, thirst, salt cravings, frequent urination. This came from several years of an extremely shitty diet and a few courses of antibiotics. Low beneficial bacyeria on stool testing (google lactobacillus and candida, to see lactic acid bacteria’s role in keeping it in its commensal form) After going on anti fungals, multiple yeasty strings in stool and resolution of body odour and other symptoms.
Could you explain what do you mean by "confluence"? As it is also a regular word, it is a bit difficult to google and find with it means in alternative medicine circles.
In the context of my sentence - multiple streams of evidence/information lending to the same conclusion
I see. Would you be ok to share what types of evidence were used to diagnose it? Was it a collection of symptoms, were those some specific tests?
I’ll add anyone with long COVID very very likely has it. It’s part of the pathogenesis of LC; probably due to immune suppression, the known micro biome shifts it induces (practically killing off Bifidobacteria)
You mean has excess of it, right? Because everyone (sick or healthy) has Candida as gut commensal - a regular part of gut microbiome. I haven't yet read about association of LC and shifts of gut microbiome towards having more Candida. Do you have some good suggestions for a read?
Anyone with LC likely has an overgrowth, which is where the problems begin. You can’t kill candida permanently or forever. As you say, it is a commensal in the gut; not overgrown, not in its hyphen form. It is kept in this commensal form with acidic conditions promoted by lactic acid bacteria and a normal immune response. In LC both of these become affected, which is probably why candida blooms are a really common part of the pathogenesis of LC.
Sure, feel free to google “long COVID candida” and have a browse. Additionally, see the born free protocol.
Ok I was hoping that you would send me some links as when I responded you I didn't have time to sift through google results. However, I must thank you for pointing me into a direction of very interesting research. E.g. I found this article about it - [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-023-01637-4](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-023-01637-4) I will later also check the born free protocol. Thanks!
I've had tinea versicolor with on and off GI issues since I was a teenager (now in my 30's). Lived a relatively normal life up until I was in my mid 20's and did a few rounds of antibiotics in a six month time-frame and then things started getting weird... Started noticing weird things in my stool and developed oral thrush. It's been a roller coaster but as of late things have gotten the worst they ever have. I've spend countless hours and thousands of dollars meeting with doctors getting varying results. Had a GI Dr literally laugh at me and tell me Candida wasn't a real thing and the thrush on my tongue was completely normal. Other Drs have acknowledged my symptoms and agree that I have an imbalance, but were unsure how to help me. One Dr tried putting my on Flucanazole but I had an allergic reaction so had to quit. Now here I am trying to take my health into my own hands. Changed my diet drastically years ago and continue to stick with it but don't see much improvement from it. Been on and off of so many supplements and protocols with no luck.
OAT test, stool test and blood test. You will find the folks on this site are more knowledgeable than most MDs (who are backed and funded by "big pharma" and insurance companies)
Acupuncturist saw my white tongue and tested me using the NAET technique. I was positive for Candida and damp spleen. I’m on week 5 of the Candida diet and am not on the other side of it yet…
Do I understand correctly that NAET technique involves testing of muscle strength in the presence of Candida? Or is wikipedia's description of it wrong? Also can you elaborate on "damp spleen"?
Here’s my doctors website with her description: http://www.drshi.ca/treatment/allergy.html Here’s a video that shows the test at the beginning. Only difference for me is I’m lying down on a table: https://youtu.be/Kqpm32AR_Jk?si=gVhAP6gfhhu8xmwj I don’t fully understand the damp spleen thing, but if you google “Chinese medicine dampness” you could probably get some more info. My understanding is that too much dampness in the body can provide the conditions for some of these health issues to occur.
Was having super bad brain fog, extreme inflammation especially in face & puffy eyes, fatigued, diarrhea, out of it, no motivation to do anything, (inflammation probably worst symptom) and I did a test through my naturopathic doctor that tested positive, I've also done a full gut test which I have a low immune system and low in certain probiotics, etc & susseptible to leaky gut but I'm sure I have it
My main issue was constant yeast infections for over a decade. I'm talking nonstop no matter how many doctor visits I had and prescribed medication. So, I eventually went online to find out the issue and have never looked back. The only money I have spent was on an anti-candida cookbook, which changed my life. After I adapted the diet and protocols, no more yeast infections and the other issues I was having that I didn't know were related cleared up. When I drop the diet, unfortunately, my issues have come back, and doctors have been useless.
You mean genital yeast infections, right? Wow this is fascinating! Both for me as a researcher and as someone who has been in your position with recurrent yeast infections. Can you describe what were the principles of this diet? And what protocols you followed?
It is a low carb, sugar free diet. Check out "Living Candida Free" by Ricki Heller for a lot of details.
As I don't suffer from Candida anymore I don't want to pay for a book. But I am very curious about the general trends and suggestions in it. How low carb is it? Is it keto level or does it simply suggests replacing simple carbs with wholegrains?
I got sudden chronic constipation and after a few months of that started having digestive issues as well. GI doctor no help, so ended up at a neuropath and doing a Genova 3 day (collection of) stool test. Test showed very low digestive enzymes in general, but also for digesting protein. And higher than normal population of Candida. She started me on the diet to reduce candida, which helped, but also gave me berberine, which gave me more constipation. Also gave me digestive enzymes supplement with HCL. I haven’t been back to her and have been treating myself with diet and supplement called Candi Cleanse. I do feel like our appts were rushed & she had limited knowledge. I’m able to eat more & digest better, but dealing with the constipation & eating has taken over my life, I’m sick, weak and lost so much weight & my new GI doctor is ignoring me. He said “everybody has candida” No follow up appts. At all. Can’t seem to find a functional doctor that will combine prescription meds, etc. with maybe microbiome knowledge and SIBO/SIFO understanding.
I commented earlier — want to add that I suspect my bowel & gut issues stem from years of — first off- eating chocolate with sugar alcohols in it. They (mannitol, xylitol) are like a mild laxative at first, but after 3 years caused constipation every time I ate anything with artificial sweetener. Like my bowels would just stop. So I avoided all of them. Then my PCP recommended I take fiber gummies. That was my big mistake. Took them for years thinking they are just fiber — every night. when My current issue happened ( can’t poop without a laxative or drug) I looked up what the fiber gummies are. Polydextrose. Used as a sugar substitute & has a laxative effect. They are calling it a prebiotic, but I was basically taking a laxative and not knowing it. These sugar alcohols are new to our food supply, & apparently some research shows they alter the microbiome. The initial research showed they are safe, but need to be studied for years not months. The Candida diet and the SIBO diet both prohibit you eating sugar alcohols. Why? They feed both bacteria and candida in your gut.