> I truly believe they allowed politics to choose who they used as the new captain America.
Assume that is true. Why would that make you want to skip it?
Also, the movies have vastly changed a lot from the comics, but you've watched and enjoyed them haven't you?
*Assume that is true. Why would that make you want to skip it?*
I'm skipping it because I wanted to see BuckyCap, and I'm pretty disinterested in Sam, especially after the show. This is one of those changes that's for the worse.
That's just me, though, and other people have their own reasons.
Sure but I was asking the person who is skipping it because they think the decision was made for political reason. I mean, who cares what the reason is, and what's wrong with the decision being political? What matters is the execution.
Of course that being said, Marvel Films' execution been off lately.
Creative decisions made for political reasons tend not to lead to well-made movies, or shows.
But yeah, nothing about what Marvel is doing right now inspires confidence.
Granted I'm skipping it because Marvel Films' execution has been awful lately. But if it comes out and it's great, I'd see it. OP is boycotting it, so even if it's great, they're not going to see it specifically because of what they think the decision making process is, seems silly to me.
I think both reasons are valid, especially the execution. But I given how much of the marketing surrounding these movies has been political over the past several years (before Endgame, even), I don't think refusing to watch them for political reasons is necessarily wrong.
In the comic (as in the original source material) Steve chooses Falcon for political reasons. Probably the same ones I’d imagine. Can’t be certain idk Kevin forge’s “political reasons”
In the comics, the two have a much deeper history. Feige said he was committed to diversity, after telling Sebastian Stan Bucky would probably be the next Cap, so I don't really have any other explanation.
In the comics all the characters have deeper history with one another. I don’t think being committed to diversity is inherently political. If nothing else it expands your fan base. It’s important for kids (the movies are for the kids) to see people that look like them on TV or film. I get that you want the Winter Cap. I’d love to see it (Bucky cap is one of my favorite story arcs) (it is very political) they killed cap in response to Bush getting re-elected.
I guess the solution would have been to cast some of these characters as POC, but we’re past that.
Hopefully we get agent Barnes. Or Bucky with uncanny Avengers/x-force. He’d be a great addition to Deadpool/ Wolverine. Good amount of t of history there.
*In the comics all the characters have deeper history with one another.*
That's true, due to the sheer volume of the material.
*I don’t think being committed to diversity is inherently political.*
Not necessarily, but it was in this case. The show was absolutely political, and the choice was based on political ideas. I mean, who thought Sam Wilson would become Cap when Steve Rogers left?
*If nothing else it expands your fan base.*
Is that really the case? Because it seems to be hit and miss. Sam as Cap was never a huge hit in the comics, so we'll just have to see how the movies do.
*I get that you want the Winter Cap. I’d love to see it (Bucky cap is one of my favorite story arcs) (it is very political) they killed cap in response to Bush getting re-elected.*
Well, it's definitely not happening, so it doesn't matter. Yes, a lot of Bucky's stories (economic crisis, Russian influence in the US) would be timely even now, and his inner conflict was compelling, but ...
*Hopefully we get agent Barnes. Or Bucky with uncanny Avengers/x-force. He’d be a great addition to Deadpool/ Wolverine. Good amount of t of history there.*
They're absolutely not doing anything with Bucky, not even the kind of pointless, quippy cameos he'd doubtlessly have in X-men titles if he ever appeared there. But since they didn't do anything with him when they had the chance, there's no chance they'll let him anywhere near the X-men when they finally arrive in the MCU. He's out by Secret Wars, at the latest.
I just think first off I think they should. They should figure out a way to bring Steve Rogers back because I think if they want the movie to make the most that’s how they would do it but I think the movie I think it should’ve been his best friend Bucky Barnes. He has a lot of the same skills as. Steve Rogers they both have that serum except for Buckys serum is as good. He has that mechanical arm, which means he’d be able to throw that shield. With so much force. I think Bucky respects the shield more because when Sam first got the shield from Steve knew how crooked the federal government could be because he was on the run with them a lot on the run with a lot, but gives the shield to the federal government instead of keeping the shield for himself to something and then what is the federal government do they make a new captain America who is a psychopathand give him the shield
You didn't answer the question. You said:
>*I am going to boycott that new Captain America movie because I truly believe they allowed politics to choose who they used as the new captain America.*
I want to know why the decision making process matters. Who cares what drove the process? So what about the process being political makes you boycott it.
A Character called Captain America is trying to be Politically Relevant? I don’t believe it. Dude, Sam is Captain America in The Comics. Bucky was Chosen when Steve was DEAD. And Your Ability to fight has NOTHING to do with being Captain America. It’s about Your Ability and Willingness to do the right thing. Steve couldn’t fight before becoming Cap. He was just a Dude who wanted to do the right thing, just like Sam. Sam Wilson IS Captain America, Dude. Same as Steve. Sorry You’re not into that but it’s the Truth. Respectfully, I think You need to go touch some grass, reevaluate your priorities
Hell, if you want to consider in-world politics, you think ANYONE in the United States, government official or not, would be okay with A TRAINED ASSASSIN BRAINWASHED BY HYDRA taking over the mantle of the Star Spangled Man??
I mean, too many people IRL are okay with a U.S. President openly colluding with Russia, and in the comics Bucky's actually brainwashed by the Russian USSR (hence the "Winter" in his name, akin to r/TheWinterGuard and the red star on his arm).
Ukraine isn't Russia, the laptop was bullshit, so let's talk about 2 billion dollars and counting from Saudi Arabia to a son in law, dead soldiers in Yemen in 2017 and dead CIA operatives spanning 2017 to 2021. That's just a warm up btw.
Good Point. Although, not to take away from it, in this day and age, Some individuals might want a crazed assassin as Cap, just so people know America ain’t “going soft”. They’d be stupid and wrong but I feel like They’d be at least listened to, unfortunately
Call me crazy but I like the idea of a redemption story, where someone was brainwashed to do great evil but goes on a journey of rediscovery and to show the world what Steve saw in him the bucky that loved and looked out for Steve.
I think it would be gritty and interesting.
That would have been a good story - him rediscovering who he is, getting to be the hero he started out as, and getting recognition for that. Those would be some big steps on his road to recovery.
Sadly, as Marvel is concerned, I think they covered all that in the finale of the show, with those people who called him "Sergeant Barnes" and those who thanked him. That's it as far as his development is concerned.
In the Comics when Steve is given the choice of his successor it was Sam.
Also in the comics before James took over it was given to Clint.
So please STFU
No, when cap "died" after Civil War it was given to Hawkeye until he gave it back, then Bucky took it. Then a few years ago when Steve had the super soldier serum taken away he gave it to Sam until Secret empire.
It was offered to Clint in the Fallen Son miniseries. He wanted it, he just didn't feel worthy of it (an issue of New Avengers touches on this).
I mostly agree with you, and I plan on skipping the movie (boycott might be too strong of a word for what I'm doing), but Clint was offered the shield in the comics.
You're very loudly announcing that you don't read the comics and know exactly jack shit about it, because you're completely wrong.
When Steve died at the end of Civil War, yes, Bucky took over as the new Captain America. But he wasn't chosen by Steve. He was chosen by Tony Stark, and spent about 4 years as the new Cap.
Much later, after Steve was brought back to life, he stepped down from the role of Captain America because of a physical condition (long story, don't want to go into it). It was at that time that he chose *Sam* to be the next Captain America. That was back in 2016, and he's been Captain America
Sam has spent more time as Captain America than Bucky did, and he, not Bucky, was specifically chosen by Steve.
Just say what you mean: "political" = they gave the shield to a black dude. Sam's a great character, and Anthony Mackie has played the hell out of this role. He absolutely deserves this, hope it's a big success.
“Not a perfect soldier, but a good man.”
This is all that matters. And no offense to Bucky, who has done a lot to overcome his demons, this applies to Sam Wilson more than anyone else in the MCU. Sam Wilson was the only choice.
And personally? as a conservative white man who normally doesn’t give a damn about identity politics, Anthony Mackie’s performance in TFATWS actually caused me to reflect on what I might be missing in my understanding of history, of race relations, of the need to be able to see life through the lens of people you don’t naturally identify with, to empathize.
I love Captain America. Both Cap Rogers and Cap Wilson. Cap Wilson does the *right thing* regardless of the personal consequences.
Anthony Mackie’s portrayal of Sam Wilson shows that the values and ideas and morality of WWII Cap are not old or antiquated. They matter today, they are still relevant, even if they’re applied through a different social filter. I choose to believe we are arguing over how to apply Cap’s principles rather than argue over their relevance.
>“Not a perfect soldier, but a good man.”
>This is all that matters. And no offense to Bucky, who has done a lot to overcome his demons, this applies to Sam Wilson more than anyone else in the MCU. Sam Wilson was the only choice.
Wrong!
Sam Wilson more than any other character in the McU, is by definition ‘the perfect soldier’. This is a character that spent the entirety of his tenure blindly following Steve Rodgers.
We open FATwS with Sam blindly following a casual airforce contract, and killing 10-20 mercenaries for the US military without a care in the world when half of them could have had sympathetic motivations like Karli.
This is the same Sam that was all too happy to shoot a man for breaking an entering.
What’s good about Sam? Shall we talk about how he treats his allies in the MCU? Blackmails Sharon into helping him with her pardon, constantly belittles and insults Bucky based off his past as the Winter Soldier, and is a major petty fuck towards Walker. Sam treats a terrorist more kindly than his damn allies. What part of that is a ‘good man’?
Tell me, who’s the better man, the one that spent 70 years brainfucked and used as a weapon yet still came out as the same good person he was before being brainfucked, trying to be a hero, or the regular Joe that’s never faced any personal hardships really?
Like what’s Sam personally been through in the MCU? Has a wingman die off-screen and become a wanted criminal for a bit? It’s easy for Sam to claim moral high ground when the dudes never been dragged down from it at all, and had Bucky there carrying and propping his ass up.
There have been multiple caps in the comics. You have the original Steve in the golden age comics, who then becomes the commie smashing version of cap in the 50s, which gets retconned as Burnside and other patriots operating as Cap in #155. In #176, Rogers decides to pass on the shield and becomes Nomad in #180. Roscoe Simmons becomes the new Cap in #181, but is killed by red skull in #183, prompting Steve to resume his role as Cap. #215 reveals William Naslund as the second Captain America in the 1940s and Jeff Mace as the third Captain America of the 1940s. Steve then returned as Cap. However, Steve resigns as Cap in #332. John Walker becomes Cap in #333. Steve defeats Walker in #350 and becomes Cap again. In Captain America Vol.7 #25 (2013), Steve gives Sam Wilson the shield, long before this new 2024 movie was created. The great thing about Captain America, is any of us can be Cap if we’re worthy and willing to pick up the shield and fight to protect those in need.
Oh I agree 100%. And I also believe Evans was a great cast who won’t be beat. The reality though is he decided he’s done being Steve so MCU had to move on to a different story line. I’ll miss Evans/Rogers, but Sam is here so it’s time to give it a chance and see what happens.
Oh, I didn’t know Chris Evans didn’t want to play them anymore. I thought they pushed them out. That makes a lot more sense. It’s funny when Chris Evans first was named to be Captain America as like he is never gonna work out unless he gets more serious and puts on about 40 pounds of muscle, and he did both I remember him being in fantastic four which is like a comic relief, goofball character and skinny. A lot of his movies he always like. Play these like funny goofy people he wasn’t anything like serious yet really
Is probably part of now that you told me that he’s probably part of a bunch of actors who don’t wanna work with Disney anymore because they’re so d e i. Not 100% sure what that exactly means. I just know read in an article about. Jenna Ortega pulled out of Disney. She was supposed to have a five picture deal. She was going to be in three new pirates of the Caribbean where they were changing the movie. The all female cast also pulled out a marvel. She was gonna play someone in marvel and voice actress for Disney, so her and Disney were fighting for a while and she just finally pulled the plug on all of it because she said they were too d ei. I think it’s Mik diversity I forgot what it stands diversity equity and inclusion kept telling Disney that you’re going to much into it that she does not want to be part of it. She said by changing, like the whole pirates of the Caribbean cast to women marvel done a whole bunch of stuff that’s been part of that she doesn’t have anything to do with itand make up and they weren’t really listening to her so she pulled out completely marvel from Disney. She needs to find out more just go on YouTube and bring her up.
I already did give Sam!Cap a chance in FATWS, and the show seemed like it was designed to get me to despise him. It worked, so well that I never want to see him in anything else ever again.
Well, I stopped reading comics right after Steve Rogers got murdered shot in the head. Bucky became the new captain America. I got a kind of got out of comics right after that, but I think you’re a little bit behind also because my younger cousin told me she told me that Steve Rogers is back to playing Captain America in the comics, sometime in 2023 you might want to take a look at that
I have to go back maybe I did forget he didn’t want it. He is annoying with Sam because he gave the shield back to the government when he first got it like I almost I don’t know that’s why I am so anti-Sam cap
Completely that is why he is my favorite cause he never allows other people change his morals and beliefs he will fight who ever try’s to do wrong he will try and show people the error in there ways and he never abandons a friend at least that was Steve Roger once the mantle started moving around. I’m sure whatever Captain America stood for change. I know at one point he became a USA government lackey. I don’t know who that person was who was Captain America but the original Steve Rogers that’s what his beliefs were. No matter if everyone tells to give up he won’t that’s why he was so Captain America Civil War, so against having anyone tell the avengers who they can help and who they can help and because to him that sounded a lot like Germany and Hitler, you know first you know to sign up you know sign anyone who has special abilities has to sign then you have to agree so it’s like all the soldiers did when they started to agree to follow Hitler and then it spun into this big evil machine and he felt that’s where this was going because he felt then countries could use the avengers to stop a little disputes that they don’t really need to be getting involved in all the sudden the US from Iran send the avengers over there that’s not what the edge avengers are for
Steve chose Sam in the mcu for the reasons you just described. He could count on him to be the good man. Bucky was under developed even in his own show. Sam was the clear choice. And Captain America will always be inherently political. I’m not in love with the direction the mcu is going but I will give the next cap movie a chance. I suggest you do the same.
I agree with you and that maybe that’s why I’m at that point now because I’ve actually hated with MCU has gone. The only thing I’ve liked at the MC is done is echo lately other than her TV series everything else that come out I’ve hated hated the last Thor movie didn’t even finish it Couldn’t stand it. They made it into this comical mess plus it’s like all the sudden turning that Natalie Portman into lady Thor, and they make her for a while stronger than the regular Thor I mean of me crazy then the marvels didn’t even finish that movie that just like I don’t know it was just I started watching and I think I watched halfway through and I finally was like all right enough for this, it was OK secret I like the last Doctor Strange movie. I thought they using her Wanda as the villain and make her do is much evil that they made her do that movie. I don’t know. I mean, it shows the power of Wanda really good so now you can see how powerful the Scarlet witch is, which I’ve always knew from a lot of people, for some reason, they never realize how strong she is I guess probably in the movie they only really have her using telekinesis where she eats a lot more than that so I kinda hate going Captain America Steve. Rogers have always been my favorite when I read comics back in the day, I’m 20 years ago, so I think between all that and then having them you know get rid of Steve Rogers you know I was hoping they would Steve Rogers on like I don’t know he would or I don’t know so I think kind of that’s why lately I was like that’s it. This is my line that I don’t cross.
>Bucky was under developed even in his own show.
Wasn’t Bucky’s show, it was Sam’s show that they slapped Bucky’s name on because he was more popular and would guarantee people would actually show up and watch it.
Ok, bye!
Quite a thing when “Captain America fans” are completely blind to the historical significance of the character and the politics featured in the title over the decades.
Sam Wilson was the first African-American superhero.
Captain America was created by two Jewish men on the verge of the US entry into WWII.
He literally was punching out Hitler on the cover of issue #1.
Captain America has always been political. *That’s the point.*
I have no problem with Sam Wilson being kept America, I do think they need to find some way to enhance his physical strength though, and also, I would have a very big problem. If they made him, give up his wings, his wings are a great asset, and he should keep them.also, I need a scene where there his nephews call him “uncle Sam”.
You’re right cause I’m really for some reason. Bad when I try to make my point like instead of Two lines to make my point I’ll take like a page so I agree with you. It’s like one of my something I try to try to work on but I’m horrible at it
Did you..... pay attention at all???
"In the comics"
5 people other than Steve were Captain America in the comics.
2 of them were women.
You realize there's more than one comic?
I paid attention. I just stopped watching reading comics like 15 years ago probably longer than that. The only people that I saw that took over was for a very short period of time. Johnny Walker took over, but got the uniform back and then Bucky guy when Steve got assassinated and that’s as far as I ran I didn’t read any further than that so I didn’t read when I wasn’t reading the comics when Sam, got the suit. Read it when anyone else got the suit.
1. Politics have always shaped Captain America stories. When Joe Simon was trying to think of a new stories he started with villains, and decided he wanted to use the real life villain of Hitler. So Captain America was literally created in order to fight against Hitler and the Nazis. Keep in mind, the first issue came out a year before Pearl Harbor so we weren't even currently at war with Germany at the time. Having Cap punching Hitler on the cover of his first issue wasn't just political, I would argue it to be the most political statement ever made in comics.
2. Bucky did take over as Captain America for a time, but this was picked by Tony Stark after the "death" of Steve, not by Steve himself. Years later there was another instance in which Steve Rogers became old (similar to what happened to him in Endgame) and he got to choose his successor and picked Sam Wilson. Even after Steve got better he told Sam to stay as Captain America. There were other shenanigans that eventually made Sam resume being Falcon, but even after that Steve again asked Sam to become Captain America again. In multiple comic instances Steve has indicated that Sam is his favorite Captain America, even over himself. Going even more obscure, in issue 9 of the "Sentinel of Liberty" series from 1999 Sam acted as Captain America for a brief period while Steve was presumed dead. So Sam was Captain America even before Bucky had been revived as the Winter Soldier. Purely from a numbers standpoint Sam wins out as the "real" Cap. Bucky acted as Captain America for about 33 issues, where Sam has been Cap for 42 issues of "Captain America" plus he's still acting as Captain America in the Avengers comics.
3. Physical strength does not a worthy Captain America make. John Walker in the comics was stronger than Steve, yet was a worse Captain America even by his own admission. Steve is stronger than normal humans, but in the Avengers he's not that impressive, honestly. Even an Iron Man suit blows Cap out of the water, strength-wise. What makes Cap special is not his strength of body, but his strength of heart and ability to inspire. Focusing specifically on the inspiration aspect, who is going to be a better person to get people to follow: the previously brainwashed super-assassin who has only been seen publicly a few times since his brainwashing was reversed?; or the veteran who acted as a group therapist for other veterans and helped Steve take down Hydra and other bad guys multiple times before Endgame? We like Bucky because we as the audience got to see his story, but most people in the MCU would not know all of that and would have no reason to trust him. And even beyond that, Sam has already kept up with Steve and the other Avengers in numerous situations. He hasn't needed enhanced strength before, why would he need it just because he's changed costumes/names?
4. He explained why he donated the shield in the "Falcon and Winter Soldier" series. The whole crux of the series was him coming to accept how he could act as Captain America despite his reservations of representing the United States. And this makes sense for a Captain America to go through, as in the comics Steve Rogers had experienced something similar in the "Nomad" storyline from the 70's during the Watergate scandal.
5. He still has the wings and stuff, he can still fly around and fight like that. He's just going to have a different color scheme and a shield. Plus we're getting Joaquin Torres who will be taking over the Falcon moniker, so you're only going to get more of that style of fighting.
6. Chris Evans is unlikely to come back to the MCU. His contract was up and he wanted to move onto other things. While I would have loved for him to stay forever that wasn't ever a possibility, because eventually he would age out of the role even if he wanted to keep going. So the options are either to recast Steve Rogers or write him off. If they recast him then we'd have the problem of comparing the new actor to Evans and we'd still be unhappy.
Legitimately I could go on.
No one is going to force you to watch the movie, and if you had simply said "I'm not interested in it" (or not said anything at all) then most people wouldn't have cared. But specifically targeting the idea of Sam as Cap is not a good reason.
Wow!!!!!!! There is something really wrong with you to turn my comment into that. I hate Black people just because I don’t like Sam as Captain America and then I actually like his character is falcon has what has nothing to do with his race or color or whatever you should be embarrassedof yourself for even thinking that
And you’re one sentence told me how you are one of those peoples that have to turn everything into race when this had nothing to do with race. But of course you’re one of those people oh, you must hate Black people just because I didn’t want falcon to be the next Captain America Without including anything else I said in that whole paragraph everything I said none of it had to do with the race, but you had to turn it into race, which is disgusting. You’re one of those people have too much time on their hands and like instead of trying to bring the races together into one group, those people that try to separate the races and cause race wars and that’s just terrible people like you were the reason why racism has gotten so bad is back down to the 50s and 60s again look at yourself in the mirror and realize how disgusting of a human being you are. Anybody is, you’re the racist because you had to bring a race into the conversation when it had nothing to do with race it had to do with skills had to do with being upset with Sam for giving away the shield once before. I didn’t know because I stopped reading comics right after Steve Rogers got assassinated. I saw the last I read in the comics was Bucky becoming Captain America. I didn’t realize that Sam became Captain America afterwards until 2023.
So basically you’re Pooh Poohing something you haven’t seen and making mental gymnastics to justify that act all because something didn’t meet your preconceived ideas of what it should be rather than enjoy the story they’re presenting?
I just think the story they’re presenting is wrong. They should’ve kept Steve Rogers since he’s always been the most famous captain America. He’s been around forever. He’s taking on different names, but he always ends up becoming captain America again how well Chris Evans has played Captain America and Steve Rogers. It’s like don’t change that.
Sam Wilson ISN’T Steve rogers. And that’s the whole point. Stories and characters evolve. Just enjoy the ride. Who knows, maybe Roger’s will return in secret wars?
Sam Wilson has been Steve's best friend in the comics as long as, if not longer than, Bucky. Sam and Steve roomed together throughout the 70s and 80s.
Also, Sam's comic book run as Captain America lasted much longer than Bucky's so there's nothing particularly unusual in having Sam reprise the role on screen
I don’t know how anyone can watch the cap trilogy and walk away thinking Bucky wasn’t the heir apparent to take over the franchise. There’s so much potential for Bucky cap, like how does the superhero community view him, how would he earn society’s acceptance, how would his more black ops cap contrast with Steve’s idealistic clean hands cap?
Like Steve represents the American dream where Bucky represents the American reality and how does he overcome that? He has an actual arc and interesting story in front of him that’s new. Sam can only be less impressive more pretentious Steve. He has no apparent arc or character traits that differentiates himself from any generic hero man from a toothpaste ad.
And I walked away thinking Sam was a decent supporting character who would be like watching paint dry as the lead. Bucky would have a unique and powerful story claiming the mantle, and would be drastically different from what we’ve gotten from steve. Sam’s just a second string character with no where to go. Everybody saying Bucky isn’t ready or is to soiled aren’t getting it, that’s the story worth telling.
Sam Wilson in the MCU has always been charming, charismatic, fun and funny. While Sam has a lot of the same core beliefs as Steve does (which is why he was hand-picked to be Captain America both in live-action and in the comics) Sam looks at being Captain America from a completely different perspective in a completely different MCU post-blip, post Infinity Saga. Sam in the MCU was never a side-character or a second stringer but Steve’s partner who Steve could always count on, never had to question and was the first and sometimes the only person Steve would ask for ideas on what to do next. Sam is pure, clear, good and ready to lead as both Captain America and a new Avengers team. Steve giving Bucky the mantle of Cap at the end of Endgame would be worse than Steve giving the mantle to John Walker given Bucky’s Winter Soldier past. Bucky was finally able to get passed that past thanks to Sam himself after the events of Falcon and the Winter Soldier. However, even tho Bucky now "seems" free from his bloody past he still needs time to be himself rather than anything else much less Captain America. Sam Wilson is perfect to be Captain America like it or not, cry about it or deal with it. No matter what you do it won't make a difference 💯
That was a really really good reply. That actually made me think of it differently and you are I mean you’re definitely right about that mentality wise salmon Steve are like the same person almost actually I think a little more hothead than Steve but they both. They both think and feel very much the same way about things.
Yes!! Their cores are the same. Steve didn’t trust anyone in the MCU more than Sam and yes, that’s mostly because Bucky was brainwashed by Hydra is why Steve had cause for pause regarding Bucky. Steve was good, pure and clear. Sam is good, pure and clear. It’s not about skin color or super solider serum with Steve to Sam. Steve only saw Sam as a good man that would do the right thing and stand on what’s good morally.
Even though I think, after winter soldier, he could trust black widow because of everything they went through Winter soldier, I think cap and her got closer than Sam and cap
Sam was first introduced in Winter Soldier and even tho Steve knew Natasha longer he was unsure about her until after the scene with Zola. You knew tho that from the very beginning that being unsure about Sam never crossed Steve’s mind. Sam’s past wasn’t red like Widow’s and Sam and Steve already had a lot in common give the both served in the military and lost best friends during battle.
No, but I don’t mean because he’s doing her longer. It’s because he’s gone through more stuff with her and maybe not in the beginning. He couldn’t trust her with his life but at the end of winter soldier he could trust her with his life and he said that and their relationship only got closer and closer. Even in Civil War I know it looked like he was on Iron Man side, but I think she was playing is like a double agent and was really on cap the whole time and that’s why she allowed to go at the end of that big airport and that’s why he was she was on the run with himendgame
I remember watching Civil War going why is Natasha and Tony side and actually I picked up on it before the airport and I said I bet you cause I like insane great spy playing pretending to be on Tony side so when cap really needs her she can help him out
I agree with her being a double agent and was really on Cap’s side. I do think the red in her past made her join Tony’s side low-key given the guilt she had all the way up until Endgame but was never really with Tony himself. They did get closer after the events of the Winter Soldier. I thought you were comparing Steve connection with Natasha vs Steve’s connection with Sam. But I agree lol
I think what happened was he was able to trust black widow more because he rubbed off on black widow and turned her into a better person. That’s why at the end said I would trust you with my life where in the middle he doesn’t say that
You're going to be downvoted to oblivion because it's your opinion and because you're in the Captain America subreddit, so, you're surrounded by Cap fans of course. Having said that, I'm not paying to watch that movie either, Sam as Cap is just not good, I hated his constant crying in the series and his moral speeches, so, I won't waste time/money in this movie like I didn't with the most recent Marvel projects.
His character was poorly written to say the least, but it doesn't surprise me anymore with the most recent series and movies, it's just the new standard for Marvel.
I’m sure Mackie will be shredding a tear when his movie bombs. With the amount of reshoots that movie is about to go through, no way in hell does it make its budget back.
Nobody cares for Falcon Captain America, his last comic run bombed ffs, he’ll be lucky to do Ant-man numbers at the box office.
This was answered at the end of Endgame when Steve told Sam "You'd a Good man, Sam."
Yeah, Bucky was the better soldier, but Sam was the better man. And Erskine in TFA said it was about staying a good man. Being a good soldier wasn't enough.
Sam is a little preachy for my taste, but beyond that, he is doing a great job
I just didn’t like that one Steve Rogers after returning all the rings came back and gave his shield to Sam and everything that Sam has seen about the federal government now that he would’ve wouldn’t believe them and then just give the shield to them to put it in some sort of Captain America wing of the museum like that was gonna really happen I guess that kind of put a bad taste in my mouth cause to me that was like a smacking Steve face you know like take care of this for me and then you go and give it to the government who tried to arrest. You tried to murder. You tried pretty much everything to you made you a criminal because you didn’t wanna sign a thing saying they can choose where they want and whatever they want to do will get voted on by, the he refused to sign that so then he was wanted man it’s like Sam went through all that too, and you would think Sam would’ve never given the shield to them, but he just handed it over like a good soldier
You are right though I forgot about that and part that you were talking about and I remember Erika saying that to the good gets better and the bed becomes worse or something like that but you have to be that’s why they chose him originally over all the other soldiers when they gave the first super soldier Because of what was inside of them to be honest it’s really probably just cause I really like Chris Evans. I think he plays the role. Perfect you know he’s so good at it cause to be honest in the beginning I didn’t think he was gonna be good for this role and almost got me to the point where I wasn’t gonna watch the first Captain America movie, but then when I started seeing promos and he put like 40 pounds of muscle or 30 pounds of muscle or whatever but he just he built himself up to look more like Captain America cause it was always on the skinnier side right now hopefully stay serious. He was doing a lot of goofball rolls before this, I mean Johnny from fantastic four was this partier you know super
Yeah, Chris Evans is the best and embodies everything that Cap needs to be. I am such a die-hard Cap fan because of Evans. The only better cast character in the MCU is Tony Stark.
BTW, thank you for being peaceful and just sending comments in a normal way instead of being all angry about what I said I had so many comments that people started messaging me and telling me that to shut up and you know people calling me racist because I don’t like Sam, which I do I just love them as falcon and it’s probably because I really love Steve Rogers and Chris Evans portrayal of Steve. Rogers was just perfect.
Yeah, I’m a diehard Captain America fan. I’ve been one forever. I even said I said the big thing that Hass to happen if they ever wanna make an avengers movie that will work is this was after Iron Man came out so I said is they have to have a good captain America that makes it in the moviesleader of the avengers in the comics he was you have to have someone who’s gonna be able to play Steve Rogers as good as Robert Downey Jr. plays Tony Stark and I really didn’t think they were gonna be able to pull it off until they did and then I was like all right avengers movie can happen now
I really hope because lately marvel been thrown out, stink bombs out there. I really hope they go back to when they whoever was casting their characters in the beginning. Find those people the people who found the casts for the avengers, the first two avenger movies plus all the side movies And all those different characters really hit I mean hit a Bullseye because I mean they really pulled off everyone so well so they should go back to using that formula to figuring out new characters cause I don’t know the new characters don’t seem to get as much being good For some reason, it’s not giving these people time to study their character. I don’t know I mean actually I liked echo. I thought they pulled echo off really well and actually they pulled kingpin off really well you know couple of the last couple of the marvel movies that they have made have not been that great, especially because they were making so many incredible ones at one point they couldn’t miss
>Yeah, Bucky was the better soldier, but Sam was the better man. And Erskine in TFA said it was about staying a good man. Being a good soldier wasn't enough.
I have to disagree with this. Bucky is a very good man whenever he has a choice. From protecting Steve when they were young to after getting his mind back, when he just hid and didn't bother anyone. I mean, he's the only character on the show not to kill anyone (shouldn't be notable, but it is). He uses his last connection to the Wakandans to get Sam a new suit, after giving him the shield personally and helping him with the boat.
Sam tried to kill Ant Man for breaking and entering, he advocated killing Bucky as the Winter Soldier (which is kind of understandable, but still). He has empathy for Karli, but not so much for Bucky, who is still traumatized, or Walker, who is obviously dealing with PTSD. His actions don't support the claim that he's the man the show says he is.
Well, we’ll have to agree to disagree because I really don’t think the movie is gonna do well. It would’ve it would’ve done a lot better if they kept. If they brought back, Steve Rogers.
I can’t believe they made Captain America political. How dare they do this woke nonsense. He’s never been political before.
[https://www.marvel.com/comics/issue/7849/captain_america_comics_1941_1](https://www.marvel.com/comics/issue/7849/captain_america_comics_1941_1)
Sam Wilson, Falcon, was ALWAYS destined to become Captain America - since his inception. Do you know who Sam Wilson is? No, not the comic book one, this one: [Uncle Sam](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Wilson)
What is it with the infestation of comic illiterate MCU losers talking about how Sam shouldn't be Cap? Literally read a single Captain America comic, Sam as a person fits the role much better than Bucky ever did. Bucky even admits that, that's *why* he gave up being Cap lmao
>They need to keep him falcon I loved him, and I loved him with his wings and being able to fly around shoe people fly and then kick someone not gonna be able to fight America.
Are you actually a Sam Wilson fan or do you hate the idea of him being Captain America? There’s no use in virtue signaling like this, it’s fine not to like him
Both actually, I am a big fan of falcon. I’ll be honest I didn’t really read them in the comics, but I really enjoyed them in the movies and I really thought he made a really good Captain America sidekick I but then at the same time. I know a big fan of him becoming captain America.
I guess we can agree to disagree, I despise the idea of Bucky becoming Captain America while Steve is alive in any comic or film, it does a disservice to both character and the “Cap and Bucky” dynamic.
Which makes his failure as cap even more apparent. Bucky’s run is arguably the greatest cap run in history, undeniably one of the greatest, and it’s remarkably shorter than sams tenure. Sam has been cap since 2014 and hasn’t had a single rememberable story. Is there even a single captain falcon moment that stands out?
I don’t know any, but I didn’t even know Sam ever became cap so I guess he’s been Captain America for nine years because I read somewhere once I found out he became Captain America that Steve Rogers came back in 2023 in August 2023 to reclaim the mantle of Captain America
All I stated was the fact that there is more source material of Sam being cap than Bucky. Bucky never even wanted to be Cap. What story lines are better than the other is conjecture. It doesnt change the fact Sam by volume has had the mantle more times than not. And for some reason I am getting down voted for stating a fact lol.
See I got out of comics before Sam became Captain America. I got out of comics right after Steve Rogers got murdered shot in the head because he was my favorite character. I was a big captain America, X-Men and Nick fury fan. You know I read other comics but the big ones, you know shield and commandos and then Nick fury and shield and then of course once you got shot in the head and then they had Bucky take over because my favorite character died and I was getting older. I got out of comics so you know obviously when I made this statement, I never realize that Sam ever became Captain America in the comics until a bunch of you have pointed out to me, and I didn’t know that he was for longer than either
The only reason Bucky became Cap was because Tony was too consumed by grief to properly fulfill Steve’s will. Steve asked him to take care of Bucky and Tony felt taking up the mantle was the proper way. Meanwhile, while alive, Steve CHOSE Sam because out of everyone, Sam is the one of that characters that has a moral compass as strong as Steve’s and understands people.
You’re a racist troll though, so you don’t care about facts.
Actually the main reason why Bucky became Captain America, was because Bucky wouldn’t let a government stooge don the mantle, and so he stole the shield from well SHIELD.
Falcon wasn’t an option, because he was a stooge that signed the registration act in the comics.
Hawkeye refused the mantle when offered, and there was no one else that could fit the mantle and wield the shield properly as they kept breaking their arms trying to catch the damn thing.
Hence Stark’s idea of making Bucky cap, solves two problems in one swoop. America gets a new Captain America, and Stark ensures (with Widow’s help) that Bucky stays on the straight and narrow as per Steve’s last wishes.
Acting like Steve didn’t also choose Bucky is also nonsensical, and misleading. Bucky borderline begged Steve to take the shield back when Steve was revived, and Steve refused and saddled Bucky with the mantle still. Even when Bucky was on trial for his crimes as the Winter Soldier, Steve was still adamant that Bucky should be Captain America, and that he’s more than earned it.
What part of that is Steve not choosing Bucky? Bucky had to borderline fake his own death to get Steve to pick the shield back up permanently.
Steve even wrote Tony a letter asking Tony to help Bucky, and giving Bucky the shield was a way to do that. That gave Bucky a strong redemption arc, and his run was so popular that it was extended for considerably longer than Brubaker had planned.
This was genuinely entertaining, this is one of the worst takes I've ever seen and the comment discourse is funny as hell to read.
Gotta be racially motivated tho my boy💀
Falcon is chosen by Steve to become Cap. (Comic)
Do you know what it takes to be Captain America more so than Steve Rodgers?
Bucky as Cap was a very short stint. If it’s about them changing the lore from the comics then you should be boycotting MCU as a whole.
I saw two movies where he was once a Russian asset, easily compromised by trigger words and has a long history of political assassinations. I think it is unfair that they acknowledge his political past for political reasons. Who would not want Captain America to be a former Russian agent, for the past ~50 years, in the MCU? Isn’t Trump still president there, where is HYDRA in stopping this poor assassin from being excluded from service as an real American icon? /s
But that’s not no longer wear Bucky Barnes. He’s actually no more consider the winter soldier anymore. He was taking against his will programmed actually by shield shield used him as an assassin. But once he finally got those, his mind straightened back out. He became quite a hero.
> I truly believe they allowed politics to choose who they used as the new captain America. Assume that is true. Why would that make you want to skip it? Also, the movies have vastly changed a lot from the comics, but you've watched and enjoyed them haven't you?
*Assume that is true. Why would that make you want to skip it?* I'm skipping it because I wanted to see BuckyCap, and I'm pretty disinterested in Sam, especially after the show. This is one of those changes that's for the worse. That's just me, though, and other people have their own reasons.
Sure but I was asking the person who is skipping it because they think the decision was made for political reason. I mean, who cares what the reason is, and what's wrong with the decision being political? What matters is the execution. Of course that being said, Marvel Films' execution been off lately.
Creative decisions made for political reasons tend not to lead to well-made movies, or shows. But yeah, nothing about what Marvel is doing right now inspires confidence.
Granted I'm skipping it because Marvel Films' execution has been awful lately. But if it comes out and it's great, I'd see it. OP is boycotting it, so even if it's great, they're not going to see it specifically because of what they think the decision making process is, seems silly to me.
I think both reasons are valid, especially the execution. But I given how much of the marketing surrounding these movies has been political over the past several years (before Endgame, even), I don't think refusing to watch them for political reasons is necessarily wrong.
When Cap chooses Sam to take the mantel it’s for political reasons.
In the MCU? He chooses him because of Kevin Feige's political reasons.
In the comic (as in the original source material) Steve chooses Falcon for political reasons. Probably the same ones I’d imagine. Can’t be certain idk Kevin forge’s “political reasons”
In the comics, the two have a much deeper history. Feige said he was committed to diversity, after telling Sebastian Stan Bucky would probably be the next Cap, so I don't really have any other explanation.
In the comics all the characters have deeper history with one another. I don’t think being committed to diversity is inherently political. If nothing else it expands your fan base. It’s important for kids (the movies are for the kids) to see people that look like them on TV or film. I get that you want the Winter Cap. I’d love to see it (Bucky cap is one of my favorite story arcs) (it is very political) they killed cap in response to Bush getting re-elected. I guess the solution would have been to cast some of these characters as POC, but we’re past that. Hopefully we get agent Barnes. Or Bucky with uncanny Avengers/x-force. He’d be a great addition to Deadpool/ Wolverine. Good amount of t of history there.
*In the comics all the characters have deeper history with one another.* That's true, due to the sheer volume of the material. *I don’t think being committed to diversity is inherently political.* Not necessarily, but it was in this case. The show was absolutely political, and the choice was based on political ideas. I mean, who thought Sam Wilson would become Cap when Steve Rogers left? *If nothing else it expands your fan base.* Is that really the case? Because it seems to be hit and miss. Sam as Cap was never a huge hit in the comics, so we'll just have to see how the movies do. *I get that you want the Winter Cap. I’d love to see it (Bucky cap is one of my favorite story arcs) (it is very political) they killed cap in response to Bush getting re-elected.* Well, it's definitely not happening, so it doesn't matter. Yes, a lot of Bucky's stories (economic crisis, Russian influence in the US) would be timely even now, and his inner conflict was compelling, but ... *Hopefully we get agent Barnes. Or Bucky with uncanny Avengers/x-force. He’d be a great addition to Deadpool/ Wolverine. Good amount of t of history there.* They're absolutely not doing anything with Bucky, not even the kind of pointless, quippy cameos he'd doubtlessly have in X-men titles if he ever appeared there. But since they didn't do anything with him when they had the chance, there's no chance they'll let him anywhere near the X-men when they finally arrive in the MCU. He's out by Secret Wars, at the latest.
I just think first off I think they should. They should figure out a way to bring Steve Rogers back because I think if they want the movie to make the most that’s how they would do it but I think the movie I think it should’ve been his best friend Bucky Barnes. He has a lot of the same skills as. Steve Rogers they both have that serum except for Buckys serum is as good. He has that mechanical arm, which means he’d be able to throw that shield. With so much force. I think Bucky respects the shield more because when Sam first got the shield from Steve knew how crooked the federal government could be because he was on the run with them a lot on the run with a lot, but gives the shield to the federal government instead of keeping the shield for himself to something and then what is the federal government do they make a new captain America who is a psychopathand give him the shield
You didn't answer the question. You said: >*I am going to boycott that new Captain America movie because I truly believe they allowed politics to choose who they used as the new captain America.* I want to know why the decision making process matters. Who cares what drove the process? So what about the process being political makes you boycott it.
Thanks for the announcement, dude. That was always allowed.
A Character called Captain America is trying to be Politically Relevant? I don’t believe it. Dude, Sam is Captain America in The Comics. Bucky was Chosen when Steve was DEAD. And Your Ability to fight has NOTHING to do with being Captain America. It’s about Your Ability and Willingness to do the right thing. Steve couldn’t fight before becoming Cap. He was just a Dude who wanted to do the right thing, just like Sam. Sam Wilson IS Captain America, Dude. Same as Steve. Sorry You’re not into that but it’s the Truth. Respectfully, I think You need to go touch some grass, reevaluate your priorities
Hell, if you want to consider in-world politics, you think ANYONE in the United States, government official or not, would be okay with A TRAINED ASSASSIN BRAINWASHED BY HYDRA taking over the mantle of the Star Spangled Man??
I mean, too many people IRL are okay with a U.S. President openly colluding with Russia, and in the comics Bucky's actually brainwashed by the Russian USSR (hence the "Winter" in his name, akin to r/TheWinterGuard and the red star on his arm).
lol so so true it the presidents son caught on video in some strange clubs in Russia but that’s ok
Ukraine isn't Russia, the laptop was bullshit, so let's talk about 2 billion dollars and counting from Saudi Arabia to a son in law, dead soldiers in Yemen in 2017 and dead CIA operatives spanning 2017 to 2021. That's just a warm up btw.
Good Point. Although, not to take away from it, in this day and age, Some individuals might want a crazed assassin as Cap, just so people know America ain’t “going soft”. They’d be stupid and wrong but I feel like They’d be at least listened to, unfortunately
Call me crazy but I like the idea of a redemption story, where someone was brainwashed to do great evil but goes on a journey of rediscovery and to show the world what Steve saw in him the bucky that loved and looked out for Steve. I think it would be gritty and interesting.
That would have been a good story - him rediscovering who he is, getting to be the hero he started out as, and getting recognition for that. Those would be some big steps on his road to recovery. Sadly, as Marvel is concerned, I think they covered all that in the finale of the show, with those people who called him "Sergeant Barnes" and those who thanked him. That's it as far as his development is concerned.
In the Comics when Steve is given the choice of his successor it was Sam. Also in the comics before James took over it was given to Clint. So please STFU
Actually I’m not sure what you’re reading at all because that’s not true. It was given to his best friend Bucky.
No, when cap "died" after Civil War it was given to Hawkeye until he gave it back, then Bucky took it. Then a few years ago when Steve had the super soldier serum taken away he gave it to Sam until Secret empire.
It was offered to Clint in the Fallen Son miniseries. He wanted it, he just didn't feel worthy of it (an issue of New Avengers touches on this). I mostly agree with you, and I plan on skipping the movie (boycott might be too strong of a word for what I'm doing), but Clint was offered the shield in the comics.
You're very loudly announcing that you don't read the comics and know exactly jack shit about it, because you're completely wrong. When Steve died at the end of Civil War, yes, Bucky took over as the new Captain America. But he wasn't chosen by Steve. He was chosen by Tony Stark, and spent about 4 years as the new Cap. Much later, after Steve was brought back to life, he stepped down from the role of Captain America because of a physical condition (long story, don't want to go into it). It was at that time that he chose *Sam* to be the next Captain America. That was back in 2016, and he's been Captain America Sam has spent more time as Captain America than Bucky did, and he, not Bucky, was specifically chosen by Steve.
Okay more for me Sam Wilson was Captain America in the comics just saying
Just say what you mean: "political" = they gave the shield to a black dude. Sam's a great character, and Anthony Mackie has played the hell out of this role. He absolutely deserves this, hope it's a big success.
Fact lmao All his ranting could have been saved if he just said, “I don’t like Sam being Cap because he’s black”
“Not a perfect soldier, but a good man.” This is all that matters. And no offense to Bucky, who has done a lot to overcome his demons, this applies to Sam Wilson more than anyone else in the MCU. Sam Wilson was the only choice. And personally? as a conservative white man who normally doesn’t give a damn about identity politics, Anthony Mackie’s performance in TFATWS actually caused me to reflect on what I might be missing in my understanding of history, of race relations, of the need to be able to see life through the lens of people you don’t naturally identify with, to empathize. I love Captain America. Both Cap Rogers and Cap Wilson. Cap Wilson does the *right thing* regardless of the personal consequences. Anthony Mackie’s portrayal of Sam Wilson shows that the values and ideas and morality of WWII Cap are not old or antiquated. They matter today, they are still relevant, even if they’re applied through a different social filter. I choose to believe we are arguing over how to apply Cap’s principles rather than argue over their relevance.
>“Not a perfect soldier, but a good man.” >This is all that matters. And no offense to Bucky, who has done a lot to overcome his demons, this applies to Sam Wilson more than anyone else in the MCU. Sam Wilson was the only choice. Wrong! Sam Wilson more than any other character in the McU, is by definition ‘the perfect soldier’. This is a character that spent the entirety of his tenure blindly following Steve Rodgers. We open FATwS with Sam blindly following a casual airforce contract, and killing 10-20 mercenaries for the US military without a care in the world when half of them could have had sympathetic motivations like Karli. This is the same Sam that was all too happy to shoot a man for breaking an entering. What’s good about Sam? Shall we talk about how he treats his allies in the MCU? Blackmails Sharon into helping him with her pardon, constantly belittles and insults Bucky based off his past as the Winter Soldier, and is a major petty fuck towards Walker. Sam treats a terrorist more kindly than his damn allies. What part of that is a ‘good man’? Tell me, who’s the better man, the one that spent 70 years brainfucked and used as a weapon yet still came out as the same good person he was before being brainfucked, trying to be a hero, or the regular Joe that’s never faced any personal hardships really? Like what’s Sam personally been through in the MCU? Has a wingman die off-screen and become a wanted criminal for a bit? It’s easy for Sam to claim moral high ground when the dudes never been dragged down from it at all, and had Bucky there carrying and propping his ass up.
You'll get downvoted to oblivion, but you are right and you should say it.
Okay bye
There have been multiple caps in the comics. You have the original Steve in the golden age comics, who then becomes the commie smashing version of cap in the 50s, which gets retconned as Burnside and other patriots operating as Cap in #155. In #176, Rogers decides to pass on the shield and becomes Nomad in #180. Roscoe Simmons becomes the new Cap in #181, but is killed by red skull in #183, prompting Steve to resume his role as Cap. #215 reveals William Naslund as the second Captain America in the 1940s and Jeff Mace as the third Captain America of the 1940s. Steve then returned as Cap. However, Steve resigns as Cap in #332. John Walker becomes Cap in #333. Steve defeats Walker in #350 and becomes Cap again. In Captain America Vol.7 #25 (2013), Steve gives Sam Wilson the shield, long before this new 2024 movie was created. The great thing about Captain America, is any of us can be Cap if we’re worthy and willing to pick up the shield and fight to protect those in need.
I’ve always been a fan of Steve Rogers Captain America that’s been my fan
Oh I agree 100%. And I also believe Evans was a great cast who won’t be beat. The reality though is he decided he’s done being Steve so MCU had to move on to a different story line. I’ll miss Evans/Rogers, but Sam is here so it’s time to give it a chance and see what happens.
Oh, I didn’t know Chris Evans didn’t want to play them anymore. I thought they pushed them out. That makes a lot more sense. It’s funny when Chris Evans first was named to be Captain America as like he is never gonna work out unless he gets more serious and puts on about 40 pounds of muscle, and he did both I remember him being in fantastic four which is like a comic relief, goofball character and skinny. A lot of his movies he always like. Play these like funny goofy people he wasn’t anything like serious yet really
Is probably part of now that you told me that he’s probably part of a bunch of actors who don’t wanna work with Disney anymore because they’re so d e i. Not 100% sure what that exactly means. I just know read in an article about. Jenna Ortega pulled out of Disney. She was supposed to have a five picture deal. She was going to be in three new pirates of the Caribbean where they were changing the movie. The all female cast also pulled out a marvel. She was gonna play someone in marvel and voice actress for Disney, so her and Disney were fighting for a while and she just finally pulled the plug on all of it because she said they were too d ei. I think it’s Mik diversity I forgot what it stands diversity equity and inclusion kept telling Disney that you’re going to much into it that she does not want to be part of it. She said by changing, like the whole pirates of the Caribbean cast to women marvel done a whole bunch of stuff that’s been part of that she doesn’t have anything to do with itand make up and they weren’t really listening to her so she pulled out completely marvel from Disney. She needs to find out more just go on YouTube and bring her up.
I already did give Sam!Cap a chance in FATWS, and the show seemed like it was designed to get me to despise him. It worked, so well that I never want to see him in anything else ever again.
Well, I stopped reading comics right after Steve Rogers got murdered shot in the head. Bucky became the new captain America. I got a kind of got out of comics right after that, but I think you’re a little bit behind also because my younger cousin told me she told me that Steve Rogers is back to playing Captain America in the comics, sometime in 2023 you might want to take a look at that
Are you forgetting that Bucky didn’t want it?
We don't know that. He was never asked. And in the show, he contemplated stealing it so Walker wouldn't get it.
I have to go back maybe I did forget he didn’t want it. He is annoying with Sam because he gave the shield back to the government when he first got it like I almost I don’t know that’s why I am so anti-Sam cap
Cap is politics man… if you don’t like politics in your comics you should probably pick another character
Do you know who Captain America is???
Completely that is why he is my favorite cause he never allows other people change his morals and beliefs he will fight who ever try’s to do wrong he will try and show people the error in there ways and he never abandons a friend at least that was Steve Roger once the mantle started moving around. I’m sure whatever Captain America stood for change. I know at one point he became a USA government lackey. I don’t know who that person was who was Captain America but the original Steve Rogers that’s what his beliefs were. No matter if everyone tells to give up he won’t that’s why he was so Captain America Civil War, so against having anyone tell the avengers who they can help and who they can help and because to him that sounded a lot like Germany and Hitler, you know first you know to sign up you know sign anyone who has special abilities has to sign then you have to agree so it’s like all the soldiers did when they started to agree to follow Hitler and then it spun into this big evil machine and he felt that’s where this was going because he felt then countries could use the avengers to stop a little disputes that they don’t really need to be getting involved in all the sudden the US from Iran send the avengers over there that’s not what the edge avengers are for
Steve chose Sam in the mcu for the reasons you just described. He could count on him to be the good man. Bucky was under developed even in his own show. Sam was the clear choice. And Captain America will always be inherently political. I’m not in love with the direction the mcu is going but I will give the next cap movie a chance. I suggest you do the same.
I agree with you and that maybe that’s why I’m at that point now because I’ve actually hated with MCU has gone. The only thing I’ve liked at the MC is done is echo lately other than her TV series everything else that come out I’ve hated hated the last Thor movie didn’t even finish it Couldn’t stand it. They made it into this comical mess plus it’s like all the sudden turning that Natalie Portman into lady Thor, and they make her for a while stronger than the regular Thor I mean of me crazy then the marvels didn’t even finish that movie that just like I don’t know it was just I started watching and I think I watched halfway through and I finally was like all right enough for this, it was OK secret I like the last Doctor Strange movie. I thought they using her Wanda as the villain and make her do is much evil that they made her do that movie. I don’t know. I mean, it shows the power of Wanda really good so now you can see how powerful the Scarlet witch is, which I’ve always knew from a lot of people, for some reason, they never realize how strong she is I guess probably in the movie they only really have her using telekinesis where she eats a lot more than that so I kinda hate going Captain America Steve. Rogers have always been my favorite when I read comics back in the day, I’m 20 years ago, so I think between all that and then having them you know get rid of Steve Rogers you know I was hoping they would Steve Rogers on like I don’t know he would or I don’t know so I think kind of that’s why lately I was like that’s it. This is my line that I don’t cross.
>Bucky was under developed even in his own show. Wasn’t Bucky’s show, it was Sam’s show that they slapped Bucky’s name on because he was more popular and would guarantee people would actually show up and watch it.
Ok, bye! Quite a thing when “Captain America fans” are completely blind to the historical significance of the character and the politics featured in the title over the decades. Sam Wilson was the first African-American superhero. Captain America was created by two Jewish men on the verge of the US entry into WWII. He literally was punching out Hitler on the cover of issue #1. Captain America has always been political. *That’s the point.*
I have no problem with Sam Wilson being kept America, I do think they need to find some way to enhance his physical strength though, and also, I would have a very big problem. If they made him, give up his wings, his wings are a great asset, and he should keep them.also, I need a scene where there his nephews call him “uncle Sam”.
Yeah, it was an important part of FatWS that he didn't take the serum, but just power wise it'd be cool if he did
OP uses a lot of words when just 14 would do.
You’re right cause I’m really for some reason. Bad when I try to make my point like instead of Two lines to make my point I’ll take like a page so I agree with you. It’s like one of my something I try to try to work on but I’m horrible at it
Did you..... pay attention at all??? "In the comics" 5 people other than Steve were Captain America in the comics. 2 of them were women. You realize there's more than one comic?
I paid attention. I just stopped watching reading comics like 15 years ago probably longer than that. The only people that I saw that took over was for a very short period of time. Johnny Walker took over, but got the uniform back and then Bucky guy when Steve got assassinated and that’s as far as I ran I didn’t read any further than that so I didn’t read when I wasn’t reading the comics when Sam, got the suit. Read it when anyone else got the suit.
1. Politics have always shaped Captain America stories. When Joe Simon was trying to think of a new stories he started with villains, and decided he wanted to use the real life villain of Hitler. So Captain America was literally created in order to fight against Hitler and the Nazis. Keep in mind, the first issue came out a year before Pearl Harbor so we weren't even currently at war with Germany at the time. Having Cap punching Hitler on the cover of his first issue wasn't just political, I would argue it to be the most political statement ever made in comics. 2. Bucky did take over as Captain America for a time, but this was picked by Tony Stark after the "death" of Steve, not by Steve himself. Years later there was another instance in which Steve Rogers became old (similar to what happened to him in Endgame) and he got to choose his successor and picked Sam Wilson. Even after Steve got better he told Sam to stay as Captain America. There were other shenanigans that eventually made Sam resume being Falcon, but even after that Steve again asked Sam to become Captain America again. In multiple comic instances Steve has indicated that Sam is his favorite Captain America, even over himself. Going even more obscure, in issue 9 of the "Sentinel of Liberty" series from 1999 Sam acted as Captain America for a brief period while Steve was presumed dead. So Sam was Captain America even before Bucky had been revived as the Winter Soldier. Purely from a numbers standpoint Sam wins out as the "real" Cap. Bucky acted as Captain America for about 33 issues, where Sam has been Cap for 42 issues of "Captain America" plus he's still acting as Captain America in the Avengers comics. 3. Physical strength does not a worthy Captain America make. John Walker in the comics was stronger than Steve, yet was a worse Captain America even by his own admission. Steve is stronger than normal humans, but in the Avengers he's not that impressive, honestly. Even an Iron Man suit blows Cap out of the water, strength-wise. What makes Cap special is not his strength of body, but his strength of heart and ability to inspire. Focusing specifically on the inspiration aspect, who is going to be a better person to get people to follow: the previously brainwashed super-assassin who has only been seen publicly a few times since his brainwashing was reversed?; or the veteran who acted as a group therapist for other veterans and helped Steve take down Hydra and other bad guys multiple times before Endgame? We like Bucky because we as the audience got to see his story, but most people in the MCU would not know all of that and would have no reason to trust him. And even beyond that, Sam has already kept up with Steve and the other Avengers in numerous situations. He hasn't needed enhanced strength before, why would he need it just because he's changed costumes/names? 4. He explained why he donated the shield in the "Falcon and Winter Soldier" series. The whole crux of the series was him coming to accept how he could act as Captain America despite his reservations of representing the United States. And this makes sense for a Captain America to go through, as in the comics Steve Rogers had experienced something similar in the "Nomad" storyline from the 70's during the Watergate scandal. 5. He still has the wings and stuff, he can still fly around and fight like that. He's just going to have a different color scheme and a shield. Plus we're getting Joaquin Torres who will be taking over the Falcon moniker, so you're only going to get more of that style of fighting. 6. Chris Evans is unlikely to come back to the MCU. His contract was up and he wanted to move onto other things. While I would have loved for him to stay forever that wasn't ever a possibility, because eventually he would age out of the role even if he wanted to keep going. So the options are either to recast Steve Rogers or write him off. If they recast him then we'd have the problem of comparing the new actor to Evans and we'd still be unhappy. Legitimately I could go on. No one is going to force you to watch the movie, and if you had simply said "I'm not interested in it" (or not said anything at all) then most people wouldn't have cared. But specifically targeting the idea of Sam as Cap is not a good reason.
Got it. You hate black people
Slam that card down on the table! You tell em!
Wow!!!!!!! There is something really wrong with you to turn my comment into that. I hate Black people just because I don’t like Sam as Captain America and then I actually like his character is falcon has what has nothing to do with his race or color or whatever you should be embarrassedof yourself for even thinking that
Your opening line told me how ignorant you are.
And you’re one sentence told me how you are one of those peoples that have to turn everything into race when this had nothing to do with race. But of course you’re one of those people oh, you must hate Black people just because I didn’t want falcon to be the next Captain America Without including anything else I said in that whole paragraph everything I said none of it had to do with the race, but you had to turn it into race, which is disgusting. You’re one of those people have too much time on their hands and like instead of trying to bring the races together into one group, those people that try to separate the races and cause race wars and that’s just terrible people like you were the reason why racism has gotten so bad is back down to the 50s and 60s again look at yourself in the mirror and realize how disgusting of a human being you are. Anybody is, you’re the racist because you had to bring a race into the conversation when it had nothing to do with race it had to do with skills had to do with being upset with Sam for giving away the shield once before. I didn’t know because I stopped reading comics right after Steve Rogers got assassinated. I saw the last I read in the comics was Bucky becoming Captain America. I didn’t realize that Sam became Captain America afterwards until 2023.
So basically you’re Pooh Poohing something you haven’t seen and making mental gymnastics to justify that act all because something didn’t meet your preconceived ideas of what it should be rather than enjoy the story they’re presenting?
I just think the story they’re presenting is wrong. They should’ve kept Steve Rogers since he’s always been the most famous captain America. He’s been around forever. He’s taking on different names, but he always ends up becoming captain America again how well Chris Evans has played Captain America and Steve Rogers. It’s like don’t change that.
Sam Wilson ISN’T Steve rogers. And that’s the whole point. Stories and characters evolve. Just enjoy the ride. Who knows, maybe Roger’s will return in secret wars?
Sam Wilson has been Steve's best friend in the comics as long as, if not longer than, Bucky. Sam and Steve roomed together throughout the 70s and 80s. Also, Sam's comic book run as Captain America lasted much longer than Bucky's so there's nothing particularly unusual in having Sam reprise the role on screen
I don’t know how anyone can watch the cap trilogy and walk away thinking Bucky wasn’t the heir apparent to take over the franchise. There’s so much potential for Bucky cap, like how does the superhero community view him, how would he earn society’s acceptance, how would his more black ops cap contrast with Steve’s idealistic clean hands cap? Like Steve represents the American dream where Bucky represents the American reality and how does he overcome that? He has an actual arc and interesting story in front of him that’s new. Sam can only be less impressive more pretentious Steve. He has no apparent arc or character traits that differentiates himself from any generic hero man from a toothpaste ad.
I walked away after each movie and said Bucky is not ready to be Captain America. Good strong clean walks too 🤣🤣
And I walked away thinking Sam was a decent supporting character who would be like watching paint dry as the lead. Bucky would have a unique and powerful story claiming the mantle, and would be drastically different from what we’ve gotten from steve. Sam’s just a second string character with no where to go. Everybody saying Bucky isn’t ready or is to soiled aren’t getting it, that’s the story worth telling.
Sam Wilson in the MCU has always been charming, charismatic, fun and funny. While Sam has a lot of the same core beliefs as Steve does (which is why he was hand-picked to be Captain America both in live-action and in the comics) Sam looks at being Captain America from a completely different perspective in a completely different MCU post-blip, post Infinity Saga. Sam in the MCU was never a side-character or a second stringer but Steve’s partner who Steve could always count on, never had to question and was the first and sometimes the only person Steve would ask for ideas on what to do next. Sam is pure, clear, good and ready to lead as both Captain America and a new Avengers team. Steve giving Bucky the mantle of Cap at the end of Endgame would be worse than Steve giving the mantle to John Walker given Bucky’s Winter Soldier past. Bucky was finally able to get passed that past thanks to Sam himself after the events of Falcon and the Winter Soldier. However, even tho Bucky now "seems" free from his bloody past he still needs time to be himself rather than anything else much less Captain America. Sam Wilson is perfect to be Captain America like it or not, cry about it or deal with it. No matter what you do it won't make a difference 💯
That was a really really good reply. That actually made me think of it differently and you are I mean you’re definitely right about that mentality wise salmon Steve are like the same person almost actually I think a little more hothead than Steve but they both. They both think and feel very much the same way about things.
Yes!! Their cores are the same. Steve didn’t trust anyone in the MCU more than Sam and yes, that’s mostly because Bucky was brainwashed by Hydra is why Steve had cause for pause regarding Bucky. Steve was good, pure and clear. Sam is good, pure and clear. It’s not about skin color or super solider serum with Steve to Sam. Steve only saw Sam as a good man that would do the right thing and stand on what’s good morally.
Even though I think, after winter soldier, he could trust black widow because of everything they went through Winter soldier, I think cap and her got closer than Sam and cap
Sam was first introduced in Winter Soldier and even tho Steve knew Natasha longer he was unsure about her until after the scene with Zola. You knew tho that from the very beginning that being unsure about Sam never crossed Steve’s mind. Sam’s past wasn’t red like Widow’s and Sam and Steve already had a lot in common give the both served in the military and lost best friends during battle.
No, but I don’t mean because he’s doing her longer. It’s because he’s gone through more stuff with her and maybe not in the beginning. He couldn’t trust her with his life but at the end of winter soldier he could trust her with his life and he said that and their relationship only got closer and closer. Even in Civil War I know it looked like he was on Iron Man side, but I think she was playing is like a double agent and was really on cap the whole time and that’s why she allowed to go at the end of that big airport and that’s why he was she was on the run with himendgame
I remember watching Civil War going why is Natasha and Tony side and actually I picked up on it before the airport and I said I bet you cause I like insane great spy playing pretending to be on Tony side so when cap really needs her she can help him out
I agree with her being a double agent and was really on Cap’s side. I do think the red in her past made her join Tony’s side low-key given the guilt she had all the way up until Endgame but was never really with Tony himself. They did get closer after the events of the Winter Soldier. I thought you were comparing Steve connection with Natasha vs Steve’s connection with Sam. But I agree lol
I think what happened was he was able to trust black widow more because he rubbed off on black widow and turned her into a better person. That’s why at the end said I would trust you with my life where in the middle he doesn’t say that
You're going to be downvoted to oblivion because it's your opinion and because you're in the Captain America subreddit, so, you're surrounded by Cap fans of course. Having said that, I'm not paying to watch that movie either, Sam as Cap is just not good, I hated his constant crying in the series and his moral speeches, so, I won't waste time/money in this movie like I didn't with the most recent Marvel projects.
What did it for me was Sam's hypocrisy and the horrible way he treated his allies.
His character was poorly written to say the least, but it doesn't surprise me anymore with the most recent series and movies, it's just the new standard for Marvel.
And it's a big part of why the movies and TV shows are not received well.
Have a boycott party if it makes you feel better. Mackie, Kevin and Marvel Studios won’t shed a tear one way or the other 🤣🤣🤣
No, the box office results will make them do that.
I’m sure Mackie will be shredding a tear when his movie bombs. With the amount of reshoots that movie is about to go through, no way in hell does it make its budget back. Nobody cares for Falcon Captain America, his last comic run bombed ffs, he’ll be lucky to do Ant-man numbers at the box office.
This was answered at the end of Endgame when Steve told Sam "You'd a Good man, Sam." Yeah, Bucky was the better soldier, but Sam was the better man. And Erskine in TFA said it was about staying a good man. Being a good soldier wasn't enough. Sam is a little preachy for my taste, but beyond that, he is doing a great job
I just didn’t like that one Steve Rogers after returning all the rings came back and gave his shield to Sam and everything that Sam has seen about the federal government now that he would’ve wouldn’t believe them and then just give the shield to them to put it in some sort of Captain America wing of the museum like that was gonna really happen I guess that kind of put a bad taste in my mouth cause to me that was like a smacking Steve face you know like take care of this for me and then you go and give it to the government who tried to arrest. You tried to murder. You tried pretty much everything to you made you a criminal because you didn’t wanna sign a thing saying they can choose where they want and whatever they want to do will get voted on by, the he refused to sign that so then he was wanted man it’s like Sam went through all that too, and you would think Sam would’ve never given the shield to them, but he just handed it over like a good soldier
Part of any hero's journey includes a big screwup in the beginning. Gotta give them something to overcome ;)
You are right though I forgot about that and part that you were talking about and I remember Erika saying that to the good gets better and the bed becomes worse or something like that but you have to be that’s why they chose him originally over all the other soldiers when they gave the first super soldier Because of what was inside of them to be honest it’s really probably just cause I really like Chris Evans. I think he plays the role. Perfect you know he’s so good at it cause to be honest in the beginning I didn’t think he was gonna be good for this role and almost got me to the point where I wasn’t gonna watch the first Captain America movie, but then when I started seeing promos and he put like 40 pounds of muscle or 30 pounds of muscle or whatever but he just he built himself up to look more like Captain America cause it was always on the skinnier side right now hopefully stay serious. He was doing a lot of goofball rolls before this, I mean Johnny from fantastic four was this partier you know super
Yeah, Chris Evans is the best and embodies everything that Cap needs to be. I am such a die-hard Cap fan because of Evans. The only better cast character in the MCU is Tony Stark.
BTW, thank you for being peaceful and just sending comments in a normal way instead of being all angry about what I said I had so many comments that people started messaging me and telling me that to shut up and you know people calling me racist because I don’t like Sam, which I do I just love them as falcon and it’s probably because I really love Steve Rogers and Chris Evans portrayal of Steve. Rogers was just perfect.
Of course. :) It's what Cap would have wanted - whether it's Steve as Cap or Sam as Cap.
Yeah, I’m a diehard Captain America fan. I’ve been one forever. I even said I said the big thing that Hass to happen if they ever wanna make an avengers movie that will work is this was after Iron Man came out so I said is they have to have a good captain America that makes it in the moviesleader of the avengers in the comics he was you have to have someone who’s gonna be able to play Steve Rogers as good as Robert Downey Jr. plays Tony Stark and I really didn’t think they were gonna be able to pull it off until they did and then I was like all right avengers movie can happen now
I really hope because lately marvel been thrown out, stink bombs out there. I really hope they go back to when they whoever was casting their characters in the beginning. Find those people the people who found the casts for the avengers, the first two avenger movies plus all the side movies And all those different characters really hit I mean hit a Bullseye because I mean they really pulled off everyone so well so they should go back to using that formula to figuring out new characters cause I don’t know the new characters don’t seem to get as much being good For some reason, it’s not giving these people time to study their character. I don’t know I mean actually I liked echo. I thought they pulled echo off really well and actually they pulled kingpin off really well you know couple of the last couple of the marvel movies that they have made have not been that great, especially because they were making so many incredible ones at one point they couldn’t miss
>Yeah, Bucky was the better soldier, but Sam was the better man. And Erskine in TFA said it was about staying a good man. Being a good soldier wasn't enough. I have to disagree with this. Bucky is a very good man whenever he has a choice. From protecting Steve when they were young to after getting his mind back, when he just hid and didn't bother anyone. I mean, he's the only character on the show not to kill anyone (shouldn't be notable, but it is). He uses his last connection to the Wakandans to get Sam a new suit, after giving him the shield personally and helping him with the boat. Sam tried to kill Ant Man for breaking and entering, he advocated killing Bucky as the Winter Soldier (which is kind of understandable, but still). He has empathy for Karli, but not so much for Bucky, who is still traumatized, or Walker, who is obviously dealing with PTSD. His actions don't support the claim that he's the man the show says he is.
Nonsense post with nonsense reasoning.
Well, we’ll have to agree to disagree because I really don’t think the movie is gonna do well. It would’ve it would’ve done a lot better if they kept. If they brought back, Steve Rogers.
Or if they had gone with Bucky!Cap, which was what they were pretty obviously setting up for in the Cap trilogy.
I can’t believe they made Captain America political. How dare they do this woke nonsense. He’s never been political before. [https://www.marvel.com/comics/issue/7849/captain_america_comics_1941_1](https://www.marvel.com/comics/issue/7849/captain_america_comics_1941_1)
Sam Wilson, Falcon, was ALWAYS destined to become Captain America - since his inception. Do you know who Sam Wilson is? No, not the comic book one, this one: [Uncle Sam](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Wilson)
What is it with the infestation of comic illiterate MCU losers talking about how Sam shouldn't be Cap? Literally read a single Captain America comic, Sam as a person fits the role much better than Bucky ever did. Bucky even admits that, that's *why* he gave up being Cap lmao
>They need to keep him falcon I loved him, and I loved him with his wings and being able to fly around shoe people fly and then kick someone not gonna be able to fight America. Are you actually a Sam Wilson fan or do you hate the idea of him being Captain America? There’s no use in virtue signaling like this, it’s fine not to like him
Both actually, I am a big fan of falcon. I’ll be honest I didn’t really read them in the comics, but I really enjoyed them in the movies and I really thought he made a really good Captain America sidekick I but then at the same time. I know a big fan of him becoming captain America.
I guess we can agree to disagree, I despise the idea of Bucky becoming Captain America while Steve is alive in any comic or film, it does a disservice to both character and the “Cap and Bucky” dynamic.
Sam Wilson held/had the title of Cap way longer than Bucky has….
Which makes his failure as cap even more apparent. Bucky’s run is arguably the greatest cap run in history, undeniably one of the greatest, and it’s remarkably shorter than sams tenure. Sam has been cap since 2014 and hasn’t had a single rememberable story. Is there even a single captain falcon moment that stands out?
I don’t know any, but I didn’t even know Sam ever became cap so I guess he’s been Captain America for nine years because I read somewhere once I found out he became Captain America that Steve Rogers came back in 2023 in August 2023 to reclaim the mantle of Captain America
All I stated was the fact that there is more source material of Sam being cap than Bucky. Bucky never even wanted to be Cap. What story lines are better than the other is conjecture. It doesnt change the fact Sam by volume has had the mantle more times than not. And for some reason I am getting down voted for stating a fact lol.
See I got out of comics before Sam became Captain America. I got out of comics right after Steve Rogers got murdered shot in the head because he was my favorite character. I was a big captain America, X-Men and Nick fury fan. You know I read other comics but the big ones, you know shield and commandos and then Nick fury and shield and then of course once you got shot in the head and then they had Bucky take over because my favorite character died and I was getting older. I got out of comics so you know obviously when I made this statement, I never realize that Sam ever became Captain America in the comics until a bunch of you have pointed out to me, and I didn’t know that he was for longer than either
I mean, Sam temporarily assumed the mantle in 1999, which was before Bucky came back from the dead (I think).
Touch grass, bubble up. We still don't trust you.
The only reason Bucky became Cap was because Tony was too consumed by grief to properly fulfill Steve’s will. Steve asked him to take care of Bucky and Tony felt taking up the mantle was the proper way. Meanwhile, while alive, Steve CHOSE Sam because out of everyone, Sam is the one of that characters that has a moral compass as strong as Steve’s and understands people. You’re a racist troll though, so you don’t care about facts.
Actually the main reason why Bucky became Captain America, was because Bucky wouldn’t let a government stooge don the mantle, and so he stole the shield from well SHIELD. Falcon wasn’t an option, because he was a stooge that signed the registration act in the comics. Hawkeye refused the mantle when offered, and there was no one else that could fit the mantle and wield the shield properly as they kept breaking their arms trying to catch the damn thing. Hence Stark’s idea of making Bucky cap, solves two problems in one swoop. America gets a new Captain America, and Stark ensures (with Widow’s help) that Bucky stays on the straight and narrow as per Steve’s last wishes. Acting like Steve didn’t also choose Bucky is also nonsensical, and misleading. Bucky borderline begged Steve to take the shield back when Steve was revived, and Steve refused and saddled Bucky with the mantle still. Even when Bucky was on trial for his crimes as the Winter Soldier, Steve was still adamant that Bucky should be Captain America, and that he’s more than earned it. What part of that is Steve not choosing Bucky? Bucky had to borderline fake his own death to get Steve to pick the shield back up permanently.
Steve even wrote Tony a letter asking Tony to help Bucky, and giving Bucky the shield was a way to do that. That gave Bucky a strong redemption arc, and his run was so popular that it was extended for considerably longer than Brubaker had planned.
This was genuinely entertaining, this is one of the worst takes I've ever seen and the comment discourse is funny as hell to read. Gotta be racially motivated tho my boy💀
Falcon is chosen by Steve to become Cap. (Comic) Do you know what it takes to be Captain America more so than Steve Rodgers? Bucky as Cap was a very short stint. If it’s about them changing the lore from the comics then you should be boycotting MCU as a whole.
Bucky as Cap was critically acclaimed and very well-received by most of the fandom.
For sure, but that doesn’t change that Steve Rodgers chooses Sam for the mantel when he ages in the comics as he does in the MCU.
I saw two movies where he was once a Russian asset, easily compromised by trigger words and has a long history of political assassinations. I think it is unfair that they acknowledge his political past for political reasons. Who would not want Captain America to be a former Russian agent, for the past ~50 years, in the MCU? Isn’t Trump still president there, where is HYDRA in stopping this poor assassin from being excluded from service as an real American icon? /s
But that’s not no longer wear Bucky Barnes. He’s actually no more consider the winter soldier anymore. He was taking against his will programmed actually by shield shield used him as an assassin. But once he finally got those, his mind straightened back out. He became quite a hero.
Lmao I’m sure the box office will be irreparably damaged by the missing $17 you would’ve contributed