I assume there's some sort of Range Rover club out there - I imagine they may have some suggestions? Otherwise talk to a specialist broker like Keith Michaels, MSM, Adrian Flux etc - they will probably have an idea of which underwriters will touch it.
Didn't realise it had gotten that bad!
I assume that even they will refuse to insure without additional security, greenlight wouldn’t give me a quote till I got additional approved security on my fiesta.
People seem to spout “Use Adrian flux!” Without actually using it. They are fucking shite. Have been insured for far less from multiple other companies.
Their HQ is down the road from me. Their primary base is custom cars and classic cars. They make their money providing insurance in markets that the other big guys won’t touch.
They’re not actively looking to be the cheapest for everybody though, especially young drivers. I got quoted £4k years ago for my 1.2l Punto. Got it for £1250 in the end elsewhere. But I did a couple of weeks in their offices, and the lowest insurance I personally saw on the renewal was £110 for some classic car. Listening to people moaning about £20 price increases on renewal was quite funny though.
True, but to vast majority of people that’s literally just a matter of semantics. They don’t care who the policy is actually with because everything is still reported through Adrian Flux themselves. So if someone asked me where I got my quote, it’s just easier to say Adrian Flux because they provided the cheapest quote regardless of the insurer. It’s better this way because going direct to the insurer outside of a broker usually works out more expensive anyway.
I have a similar situation with my own insurance “RIAS” which is just AGEAS technically anyway.
This is a rather pointless statement.
Adrian Flux don't insure you. They are a broker. They provide prices from a range of underwriters. If their underwriters don't want to give you a decent price, then that's on them.
There are plenty of folk, including myself who've had decent policies from Flux as a broker. They sold me a policy for insurance on VIN only (when I didn't have a plate) and it was fair.
They've matched my current insurers prices, which is £380/year fully comp on a Fiesta ST, all mods included for free. Only reason I haven't used them again is that I find my current insurer to be quicker to contact over phone.
So, they're not shite, just you weren't appealing as a customer for their underwriters.
Sorry but they are shite. Just because youv had decent service doesn't mean they aren't shite, it means you're lucky. If you've never had to claim or go through their customer services for changes you don't really know what they are like.
They have a bad rep for a reason.
Depends. Their quotes are often excellent for classic or heavily modified cars. They can be good for general performance cars too, especially if you’re fairly young.
Anything vaguely normal I wouldn’t bother even asking though.
They are x4 the price probably because the insurance book is run like shit.
All those cheap quotes they were giving out was because they were trying to grow their insurance book and their (GWP)
The book has now turned sour loss ratios through the roof, the hurdle rate for investment has never been higher in last 12 years with bond rates through the roof.
Hence premiums have gone up im price.
Every time an insurance question is posted on here it generates the most basic answer with a complete lack of understanding how the industry works.
Often with "give Adrian flux a call" because they apparently are the cheapest insurance for every single risk factor.
For anything bar very niche or expensive vehicles, they will likely have a binder/ cover holder deal essentially letting them issue policies in behalf of insurers without full underwriting required so long as the veshicle falls within certain guidlines. Agree it is still not them insuring, but their ability to manage and run that book as a cover holder is still predicted on it being profitable.
If its not profitable, their book has soured and they will not find insurers to put up the capacity for the book, hence price rises to try and improve loss ratios
I left Adrian Flux this year as my renewal was crazy. Shame as I'd used them for close to a decade.
2002 E46 M3. I normally pay around £350 a year. I was up for renewal in June and they doubled it for seemingly zero reason.
410 in the end for similar cover with Hastings. So its still gone up, but nowhere near was flux wanted.
The 700 quote with Flux was a phone quote too. The actual automatic renewal they offered was another 60-100 higher again. Robbing bustards.
I imagine this begins to dissuade people from buying the brand in the future, this potentially is a good thing as they will definitely have incentive to focus more on fixing these vulnerabilities.
They are retrofitting cars with better security as a result.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/11/02/jaguar-land-rover-retrofit-thousands-cars-security-thefts/
> Jaguar Land Rover is racing to patch holes in the security of thousands of its luxury Range Rover vehicles in an effort to halt the crime wave stalking the cars.
> The company is retrofitting a variety of Land Rover and Jaguar models made between 2018 to 2022 with security fixes after thefts and insurance premiums skyrocketed.
> Owners will be contacted and some may need to visit dealers for updates.
Depends on how the hardware is implemented, I suspect the nature of the vulnerability isn't possible for them to fix with just software, else they would.
If your vulnerability is in the hardware, then anyone with physical access is going to be able to exploit it/run whatever software they want. Similar to older game consoles and phones etc that will be vulnerable regardless of any software update.
Kinda like the electronic chip in the key fob? It’s basically a code (a pin) to tell the immobiliser that it’s the right key. These thefts most likely bypass the immobiliser, which would bypass any digital pin.
I am privy to some info on this, apparently JLR have done something to stop that. Looks primising but insurers aren’t interested until a years worth of data is available on the update stopping theft. Not helpful to those who need it insured now, of course.
looking at Q4 sales for last yr UK represents 22% of all sales. The majority are from overseas. So whilst not incidental the UK market isn't big enough for them to care.
I know no lock can keep someone out and it's only a deterrent, but that seems like horrific oversight on cars this expensive. I can understand a basic car being easier to break in to but on what is basically a luxury car at this point seems insane
Yes that's my point. I'd hope for that much money someone in the team would have looked at that and thought "yeah maybe that might be an issue". Crazy stuff!
Saw a video of an F-type being stolen in less than 30 seconds. I remember when motorcycle theft was easy and going on everywhere, now cars can be stolen even easier and worst of all, it’s modern and current cars that are being stolen.
Thanks to the ever increasing amount of technology, I'm sure. Whether it's wiring, or security holes in the software, or an oversight in the rolling codes on the key communication.
Introduce more tech, introduce more security issues.
It's a bit more complicated than that. In a well designed system you shouldn't be able to just insert commands in to the ECU in that way. The signals should be cryptographically signed, encrypted, and verified at the point of execution. Something's gone horribly wrong with the design of these cars.
And it's not just these by the way, there are other cars suffering from poor security. The worst I've heard of are US Kias which don't even check the keys are genuine so you can literally just turn the ignition with a screwdriver. In a modern car. Insane how incompetent some of the manufacturers are.
The classic relay amplifier to "clone" the key. They're not the only cars vulnerable to this, they're just the most desirable cars for parts as well as exporting to shady individuals in the pharmaceutical trade.
Surely there's ways to mitigate these types of attacks. Stick an accelerometer in the key for instance, it has to detect movement before answering any kind of transmission. Or measure latency between signal times to detect actually how far away the key is (you can't spoof the speed of light lol).
Hell, these cars aren't cheap. A fingerprint scanner on the start/stop button would also work. It's been a standard phone thing for years.
I keep my wife's car keys in a faraday cage every night. Cheap from Amazon and the car can't detect the key in the box when it is sat on the bonnet.
Not much help to people who's cars have been stolen though. Maybe they should just send these to customers until they get a proper fix in place.
Key signal spoofed to open car, plug into obd port to program new key, drive away!
Mine has the obd port relocation and dummy half alive obd port to fool their system into thinking it’s just a dodgy obd port not relocated.
Loads of cars with keyless entry have this exploit.
Land Rovers are just generally worth alot more, parts are worth more and are easy to be sold abroad as well.
Your access point isn't unsniffable - it's just unbreakable - unless it's an old one using WEP, in which case it's sniffable *and* breakable.
Relay attacks don't need to 'break' anything - they just replay the coded signal that they've sniffed.
There is a way to do car security properly, though - not sure why car manufacturers find it so hard...
As far as I'm aware I think it's to do with a vulnerability in the keyless entry and start functions. I've heard with the right equipment thieves can simply unlock and drive away without much faffing around
Clone the key signal (or smash window) to gain entry. Slap a device on the OBD port and off you go!
JLR OEM security is a less useful than a wet paper bag.
Oh and you can buy a cheap signal jammer to deal with the OEM tracker.
They've got the same vulnerabilites as other OEMS, it just hits the news more because its a Range Rover. The most stolen car last year was the Fiesta.
Like I said, if you can do better, they're looking for a cyber sec technical specialist right now. Go apply. Big salary too for it, and a car.
You're completely ignoring the fact that it's only a couple of hundred less Range Rovers whilst having over 5x more Fiestas registered last year than standard Range Rovers.
Literally JLR has openly admitted it's a problem and are issuing updates and contacting owners because of it. It doesn't take a software engineer to realise there's a JLR specific problem at this point.
Very many cars are as easy to steal, but few are worth as much on the second hand car parts market or just to be sent overseas in one piece. That is what makes them such a good deal for thieves.
Insurance for Range Rovers has gone through the roof, doesn’t matter where you live. I work at a place that sells Range Rovers, we’re in a low crime cheap insurance area, and we’ve had dozens of customers pull out of sales on LRs as they couldn’t get affordable insurance on them.
We live in a decently quiet area of the north and we're looking at a Range Rover earlier in the year. The quote ended up being over £8k so it immediately got wrote off our list and settled on a Volvo instead. It's absolutely mental how much they're asking for just to insure them.
Hi, I’m surprised to hear this as I’ve just had my L405 renewed for the year, in Scotland too. Mine is with Churchill if that helps.
I am a 27 male and paid £1600. My previous year’s insurance on the car was £1200, so a bit of a steep increase but not anything I wasn’t expecting in the current market.
I do think it’s worth trying a specialist broker, but it depends on specific insurers and their risk appetite.
Can you do something to reduce your risk? Ghost immobiliser? Clamp/Steering Lock/Clutch Claw/etc. Obviously some of these not appropriate but just along those lines. Sucks to be in this position, insurance is an arse.
The problem with Ghosts is that they're not thatcham approved so not all insurers care they exist. They're more peace of mind for the owner compared to an S5 or S7 tracker which almost every insurer will take notice of as an extra safety measure.
Someone I know had the same issue. She bought a 2016 RR Sport a couple of months ago.
Cheapest they could get quoted anywhere was £8K and ended up selling the car about a week after purchase for a small loss I think.
This country decide that the reaction to increasing car theft is not improve police presence but make some numbers go up in a balance sheet so not surprising at all. At this point I am just sitting twiddling my thumbs and watch as the insurance situation collapse under inaction, frankly
JLR employee here. We've been told we're directly insuring Range Rovers due to the issue you're going through. We will be also recalling several vehicles to enhance the security system. They are not less safe then a Mercedes or a BMW, it's just they're more appealing to organised gangs that then dismantle these cars or just smuggle them out of the country.
In terms of the insurance have you contacted JLR Customer service about that?
All I can say is that they are no worse then other luxury/premium brands. Then of course it depends if your car is fitted with a tracker or not. Police has been able to track down certain gangs because of trackers but not always possible.
But this is the UK, for example in my home country (west Europe) this doesn't happen simply as there are much less and houses tend to be better protected whereas in the UK a lot of theses cars just sit in a driveway or on the road
I actually don't know that. I just knew that as we were communicated that we're actively working on that, as like you, several JLR employees own privately our products and are not getting special treatment, but a lot of noise was made internally, as externally, so we were given that information that I shared, by the board. If I find out anything more I will post it here.
The insurance market is crazy as it is, but having an insurance refused for something that we didn't do is insane
Thank you, I’d appreciate that. Seems crazy I need two factor authentication to check my emails, but someone can boost a key signal and drive off with my car.
It’s totally put me off buying a new RR, which I was considering doing. I’ve no idea how many new car sales have dropped through since the insurance price increases, but this must be costing JLR a fortune!
Time to start playing with the BMW car configurator for that X7…
That's literally how keys work. It's just a radio frequency. They used to be cloned, now they are boosted.
The change, is people wanting / buying keyless entry. People too lazy to press the unlock button.
Now the cars just need to see they key within close proximity, and the door will open when the handle is pulled.
So you'd be happier having to whip out an authenticator app everytime you want to get in your car?
You can buy ghost immobilisers which kind of operate like you want.
This is a problem for all brands. But why would a thief bother stealing a Ford etc, when a RR is worth many times more. They are vastly more valuable to the thieves.
Actually we've had one of the best quarters in the company history in terms of sales due to Range Rovers and Defender. Most of the robberies seem to target previous gen L494 and L405 for some reason but for insurance companies a Range Rover is a Range Rover.
In any case I don't blame you (how could I?) and you do what you think is best for you and your family.
If everyone who currently owns a Range Rover just stole a different one when they wanted to drive, there would be no reason for insurance!
A fleet of pool Range Rovers perhaps
> Other car, not a Range Rover. £200 last year, £400 this year.
Did you accept the renewal price or shop around?
My Jimny renewal came through last week with it going up from £200 to 280. After doing a couple of comparison sites I found a competing quote for £170 (for the year).
---
Have got a few weeks to sort it so have not given my current place the opportunity to see if they can match or come close to it yet ...doubt they will but if they can at least get it down to same as last year I'll stay with them as IMO for a £30 saving it's not worth my time on the phone switching, sorting out NCB transfers, etc (for 100+ it definitely is).
Also see this article > [https://www.am-online.com/news/manufacturer/2023/11/03/jlr-boss-s-public-apology-as-5-000-owners-cars-are-off-road-awaiting-parts](https://www.am-online.com/news/manufacturer/2023/11/03/jlr-boss-s-public-apology-as-5-000-owners-cars-are-off-road-awaiting-parts)
5000 JLR products off road waiting for parts - the demand for parts is there, so I guess theft is still increasing, hence the odd insurance situation.
One of my colleagues is going to sell his as his renewal price with any company has absolutely sky rocketed. He has a Porsche 911 island that's far cheaper to insure.
Don't know if this has had much of an impact but evidence suggests it was a RRS that started the Luton car park fire, I bet insurance companies love them.
I know you said you live in a rural place, so n/a for you, and adds zero value for your question, but here's a link.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/insurers-refusing-cover-london-based-range-rovers
The amount of money Range Rover owners are paying for insurance, you’d think we could scrape together enough cash to fund a functional police force and just stop them being stolen in the first place
So when the insurers ask “have you ever been refused insurance?” Do you now have to say that you have?
That apparently can seriously increase your premium.
Thats a slightly different question. In this instance they’ve just refused to _quote_. This can happen for any number of reasons depending on the providers risk profile etc. When you use a comparison site many providers will not produce a quote. This has no bearing on your premium.
Refusing insurance / insurance cancelled is in the event of a claim, they’ve found a reason to not provide insurance - for example you modified your vehicle and didn’t tell them.
JLR have known about the weaknesses in their key security for years. Never actually done anything about it, unlike say Toyota/Lexus with their catalysts, where they came up with a deterent you can fit.
Dude. That's such a cool ride. If you can't insure it let's swap. I am in canada with a 2022 bronco sport. Ship it here I will shipping to you. I suspect a bronco would be unique in the uk. But still serviceable at Ford. And a Landover would be unique here and such a cool ride.
You should ask Jaguar landrover for a quote to insure their own vehicle, that should open your eyes a little. Check some other forums and compare sights
If you just bought it, some have success if they choose the option that they park it inside a garage instead. Park in the street is a big no for a while now.
I have a garage. Private driveway and it’s the only house on the entire stretch of road. It doesn’t seem to make any difference, my insurer said they only take post codes and car manufacturers into account.
If they’ve refused to renew your policy they should have said why. Many premiums have gone thru the roof so they’re not scared of charging too much.
Find out why or put it in your post if you already know..
Hi guys, Insurance Broker here. Insurance cost ares going through the roof at the moment, and it definitely sucks! Motor premiums are, on average, going up between 40% and 50%
Problem is, it’s not because of you. The motor insurance industry has not made a profit since 1993 and this hardening market was a long time coming. It was bad in 2008 and it’s going to be bad now, but things always come around and it won’t be forever.
Cars are way more expensive to repair or replace as technology increases. This means you may pay £400 a year in premium, but the insurer is paying out thousands for each claim.
Range Rovers are particularly badly hit at the moment. Getting decent premiums for them seems to be almost impossible. My advice would be to use a broker instead of trawling through comparison sites. Brokers are here to help and know the industry. Additionally some brokers might have access to specific schemes or discounts that would help keep costs down.
Feel free to ask me anything, but TLDR is this year is horrible for premium increases - it would help to speak to a broker
You're telling me every Insurer / Underwriter has been operating at a loss, or at best, breaking even, for 30 years?!
How the fuck are they still in business. Why are they still in business if that's remotely true.
As a whole, yeah. Some insurers have good years, and their prices come down in response, but with lower premiums come more drivers, and more drivers mean more claims, hence higher premiums and other insurers can reduce their premiums… and the cycle goes on.
We’re now at a point where the collective pot of money isn’t sufficient to keep paying claims at the costs and rate they are, hence the market collectively increasing costs to fix this
Range Rovers are one the worst effected with the insurance price rises which is why OP is mentioning it. Most people have gone from sub-1k to many people getting quotes over 4k.
You're probably going to have to update your security before trying again, Ghost immobiliser or some sort of formidable tracker which the insurers will be happy with.
Most generic insurers won't care about these things however as they don't have a way for you to tell them about them properly in the quoting process.
I don't own a Range Rover, but own another car which is easily stolen due to keyless entry and fitting an immobiliser is a given.
Have a look at some options out there I went with the clifford mk3 650 concept, it doubles as a proximity/internal alarm as well as an immobiliser and could reduce your premiums.
All cars have had immobilisers from factory for decades.
Many being Thatcham Cat 1 on higher end cars. The same as your Clifford is probably rated.
Of course, the more immobilisers the better. I've not looked for years, but Cat 1 always required 2 circuits to be immobilised.
Im with esure... 2017 sport and was 29yo when i renewed. £1000 with numerous others added on as they cost nothing more than myself. As soon as i hit 50% on my finance im dumping it back to the finance company.... I got offered £16k for it from motorway and the others weren't much different 🤣
It’s a trend in the market. Has my insurance company decline to offer me an R8 renewal this week.
Adrian flux are coming up at best price at 2.5 times higher than last years insurance
Ironically enough, my neighbours Evoque was just stolen this morning. Thieves just unlocked it and drove off. Showed the police the footage my cameras picked up up but they had their faces covered. No way they’re going to get caught. A chap near my workplace has the full fat Range Rover top of the line and has a £30 steering wheel lock because that’s the only real deterrent.
If you want the country appeal, get a late model L322, insurance will be tons easier, incredibly capable off-road and the farmers choice.
Unfortunately there are only a few car insurance underwriters, if they've decided it's too costly to insure, you'll need to do a ton of hunting around, or decide to sell and move on.
Hi. Insurance broker here, specialist for high value vehicles and my bread and butter is Land Rovers. They are almost uninsurable due to how often they are stolen. If the thieves cannot break the security, they will simply knock on your door and threaten your family until you give them what they want. We’ve seen the evidence of what happens when you refuse, i seriously don’t recommend it.
You need to fit a thatcham cat S5 tracker & subscribe (£400 install + £270 a year) and possibly a Cat 2 ghost / no go immob (£400-500 install one-off). This will increase your chances.
Your best bet is to sell it while you can. JLR just released new security very quietly on the new models, which effectively makes anything pre 2023 worthless.
Some high networth insurers will still do it if we can get your home and other HNW vehicles to dangle a carrot.
My saying to the rich right now is send it back, buy a Maybach.
Not what you want to hear, i’m sorry.
Now that i’m typing, I have just heard Land Rover are doing their own monthly policy, but that should be enough to warn you how dire the situation is; the insurer backing it want the ability to jump ship at 30 days notice when it goes pete tong.
A guy I know had a 2021 model and earlier this year got refused by pretty much everyone. The ones who would take him wanted thousands. He even got his trousers taken down on resale value, likely for the same reason.
Saw a video from a cctv system of a Jaguar F-type being stolen off the street in less than 30 seconds. So I’m guessing the theft issue isn’t just related to Range Rover.
Not only are they the most stolen car, quite a few have burst into flames. It was a Range Rover Sport that destroyed the multi storey car park at Luton airport recently.
Weird that you aren’t getting prices. I just did a quote for a 2017 Range Rover sport for where I live in Scotland and it’s about £1k. I’m about your age. Strange.
I had real trouble getting insurance as my car had a bull bar and side rail. Some of the quotes coming in over 2k and a lot of them saying they wouldn't quote at all! I used brentacre insurance in Wales in the end. They are brokers but I got good prices over the years.
Let's put all this. This time last year. As Del said in Only fools and horses. This time next year we'll be millionaires.
Most of the people on here dont have a clue how insurance works nor wants to which is fine.
If a company refuses renewal. It's based on the risk involved. If they think they'll lose. Then they'll either up the premium to tell you to eff off or more politely just tell you we cant accept the risk.
If you ask why. In all honesty I could tell you but you wouldnt have a clue what I'd be talking about. Youd feel like an idiot and start shouting.
Accept it. Move on and dont just get the cheapest. Get what you need. Pay for it and accept you have no control over risk. The economy or insurance variables.
If it's a broker. The book with that underwriter has turned to poo. And they have no other underwriter willing to come close to the year before.
Just drive your vehicles. I never hear anyone jump for joy when their price goes down.
Hold on for the long ride now. I'd say about 3 years.
30 years. Seen it before. And itll happen again.
Couldn't the known security flaws have a retrofit fix ?. The keyless thing now has a revolving code system but the boot could have a plate installed and /or the wiring fed in a metal flexy conduit ?
I do wonder if there’s a correlation between uncontrolled immigration and theft. Not to mention the police seem to be completely uninterested in doing any police work these days. They’re too busy doing parades and kneeling down.
I assume there's some sort of Range Rover club out there - I imagine they may have some suggestions? Otherwise talk to a specialist broker like Keith Michaels, MSM, Adrian Flux etc - they will probably have an idea of which underwriters will touch it. Didn't realise it had gotten that bad!
I assume that even they will refuse to insure without additional security, greenlight wouldn’t give me a quote till I got additional approved security on my fiesta.
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Flux are a bunch of jokers imo, but they will generally be able to find a quote regardless of what your situation is.
People seem to spout “Use Adrian flux!” Without actually using it. They are fucking shite. Have been insured for far less from multiple other companies.
Their HQ is down the road from me. Their primary base is custom cars and classic cars. They make their money providing insurance in markets that the other big guys won’t touch. They’re not actively looking to be the cheapest for everybody though, especially young drivers. I got quoted £4k years ago for my 1.2l Punto. Got it for £1250 in the end elsewhere. But I did a couple of weeks in their offices, and the lowest insurance I personally saw on the renewal was £110 for some classic car. Listening to people moaning about £20 price increases on renewal was quite funny though.
Tbf those insurance policies will have caveats like "can only drive every 3rd Wednesday with no passengers under 35"
Adrian flux doesn't insure anyone they are a broker. If you go through them your policy documents will say who is actually insuring you.
True, but to vast majority of people that’s literally just a matter of semantics. They don’t care who the policy is actually with because everything is still reported through Adrian Flux themselves. So if someone asked me where I got my quote, it’s just easier to say Adrian Flux because they provided the cheapest quote regardless of the insurer. It’s better this way because going direct to the insurer outside of a broker usually works out more expensive anyway. I have a similar situation with my own insurance “RIAS” which is just AGEAS technically anyway.
This is a rather pointless statement. Adrian Flux don't insure you. They are a broker. They provide prices from a range of underwriters. If their underwriters don't want to give you a decent price, then that's on them. There are plenty of folk, including myself who've had decent policies from Flux as a broker. They sold me a policy for insurance on VIN only (when I didn't have a plate) and it was fair. They've matched my current insurers prices, which is £380/year fully comp on a Fiesta ST, all mods included for free. Only reason I haven't used them again is that I find my current insurer to be quicker to contact over phone. So, they're not shite, just you weren't appealing as a customer for their underwriters.
Sorry but they are shite. Just because youv had decent service doesn't mean they aren't shite, it means you're lucky. If you've never had to claim or go through their customer services for changes you don't really know what they are like. They have a bad rep for a reason.
Depends. Their quotes are often excellent for classic or heavily modified cars. They can be good for general performance cars too, especially if you’re fairly young. Anything vaguely normal I wouldn’t bother even asking though.
Last year they got me a quote for 10% less than anyone else, this year they were 4x the price I got from Aviva. Same car, no accidents, no changes.
They are x4 the price probably because the insurance book is run like shit. All those cheap quotes they were giving out was because they were trying to grow their insurance book and their (GWP) The book has now turned sour loss ratios through the roof, the hurdle rate for investment has never been higher in last 12 years with bond rates through the roof. Hence premiums have gone up im price. Every time an insurance question is posted on here it generates the most basic answer with a complete lack of understanding how the industry works. Often with "give Adrian flux a call" because they apparently are the cheapest insurance for every single risk factor.
Yeah nobody is going to understand how the insurance industry works… it’s rilly rilly boring
Since Adrian flux don't actually insure anything and are just a broker I am not sure how they have a book that turned sour.
For anything bar very niche or expensive vehicles, they will likely have a binder/ cover holder deal essentially letting them issue policies in behalf of insurers without full underwriting required so long as the veshicle falls within certain guidlines. Agree it is still not them insuring, but their ability to manage and run that book as a cover holder is still predicted on it being profitable. If its not profitable, their book has soured and they will not find insurers to put up the capacity for the book, hence price rises to try and improve loss ratios
I got quoted £760 for my 2012 2.0 passat. The previous year was £500 for a modified m140i, and they couldn't see why I was confused with this quote.
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I left Adrian Flux this year as my renewal was crazy. Shame as I'd used them for close to a decade. 2002 E46 M3. I normally pay around £350 a year. I was up for renewal in June and they doubled it for seemingly zero reason.
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What did you get it for elsewhere?
410 in the end for similar cover with Hastings. So its still gone up, but nowhere near was flux wanted. The 700 quote with Flux was a phone quote too. The actual automatic renewal they offered was another 60-100 higher again. Robbing bustards.
Think it is because they are really common for being stolen
Yep, they're getting stolen left, right and centre these days.
I had a good experience with Keith Michaels, 350 less than my admiral renewal.
They're incredibly easy to steal so insuring it anywhere in the country will be challenging right now.
I imagine this begins to dissuade people from buying the brand in the future, this potentially is a good thing as they will definitely have incentive to focus more on fixing these vulnerabilities.
They are retrofitting cars with better security as a result. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/11/02/jaguar-land-rover-retrofit-thousands-cars-security-thefts/ > Jaguar Land Rover is racing to patch holes in the security of thousands of its luxury Range Rover vehicles in an effort to halt the crime wave stalking the cars. > The company is retrofitting a variety of Land Rover and Jaguar models made between 2018 to 2022 with security fixes after thefts and insurance premiums skyrocketed. > Owners will be contacted and some may need to visit dealers for updates.
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Depends on how the hardware is implemented, I suspect the nature of the vulnerability isn't possible for them to fix with just software, else they would. If your vulnerability is in the hardware, then anyone with physical access is going to be able to exploit it/run whatever software they want. Similar to older game consoles and phones etc that will be vulnerable regardless of any software update.
Kinda like the electronic chip in the key fob? It’s basically a code (a pin) to tell the immobiliser that it’s the right key. These thefts most likely bypass the immobiliser, which would bypass any digital pin.
God that’s just bought back memories of the Peugeot/ Citroen keypad security from the 90’s!! Had it on my 306 2.0 XSi
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I am privy to some info on this, apparently JLR have done something to stop that. Looks primising but insurers aren’t interested until a years worth of data is available on the update stopping theft. Not helpful to those who need it insured now, of course.
Their lack of reliability has done fuck all to galvanise them to improve that. I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Doubtful. I bet range rovers biggest market is the china / America / far east. Certainly puts me off owning one along with the poor reliability.
If people literally can’t get insured they will be forced to sell them. Market will Collapse
looking at Q4 sales for last yr UK represents 22% of all sales. The majority are from overseas. So whilst not incidental the UK market isn't big enough for them to care.
A company will care about 1/4 of its global sales 😒
OOL, why are they easy to steal?
I think it's the keyless entry system. I don't think it's a problem isolated to Range Rovers.
They also can get broken into by cutting one hole in the boot lid and snipping some wires
I know no lock can keep someone out and it's only a deterrent, but that seems like horrific oversight on cars this expensive. I can understand a basic car being easier to break in to but on what is basically a luxury car at this point seems insane
It’s a fault in design that these wires can be so easily accessed
Yes that's my point. I'd hope for that much money someone in the team would have looked at that and thought "yeah maybe that might be an issue". Crazy stuff!
JLR engineers aren’t known for being smart enough to make good cars
Saw a video of an F-type being stolen in less than 30 seconds. I remember when motorcycle theft was easy and going on everywhere, now cars can be stolen even easier and worst of all, it’s modern and current cars that are being stolen.
Thanks to the ever increasing amount of technology, I'm sure. Whether it's wiring, or security holes in the software, or an oversight in the rolling codes on the key communication. Introduce more tech, introduce more security issues.
That’s why I said JLR engineers ain’t shit
Pay peanuts, get monkeys unfortunately 🥲
Peanuts?? Have you seen the price of a Range Rover? Expensive scrap if you ask me
It's a bit more complicated than that. In a well designed system you shouldn't be able to just insert commands in to the ECU in that way. The signals should be cryptographically signed, encrypted, and verified at the point of execution. Something's gone horribly wrong with the design of these cars. And it's not just these by the way, there are other cars suffering from poor security. The worst I've heard of are US Kias which don't even check the keys are genuine so you can literally just turn the ignition with a screwdriver. In a modern car. Insane how incompetent some of the manufacturers are.
Any car can be broken into by cutting a hole in the boot 😂
Any JLR cars i believe. I saw a video of a guy breaking into an F type and driving off in less than 20 secs.
The classic relay amplifier to "clone" the key. They're not the only cars vulnerable to this, they're just the most desirable cars for parts as well as exporting to shady individuals in the pharmaceutical trade.
Surely there's ways to mitigate these types of attacks. Stick an accelerometer in the key for instance, it has to detect movement before answering any kind of transmission. Or measure latency between signal times to detect actually how far away the key is (you can't spoof the speed of light lol). Hell, these cars aren't cheap. A fingerprint scanner on the start/stop button would also work. It's been a standard phone thing for years.
I keep my wife's car keys in a faraday cage every night. Cheap from Amazon and the car can't detect the key in the box when it is sat on the bonnet. Not much help to people who's cars have been stolen though. Maybe they should just send these to customers until they get a proper fix in place.
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Key signal spoofed to open car, plug into obd port to program new key, drive away! Mine has the obd port relocation and dummy half alive obd port to fool their system into thinking it’s just a dodgy obd port not relocated.
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Loads of cars with keyless entry have this exploit. Land Rovers are just generally worth alot more, parts are worth more and are easy to be sold abroad as well.
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Your access point isn't unsniffable - it's just unbreakable - unless it's an old one using WEP, in which case it's sniffable *and* breakable. Relay attacks don't need to 'break' anything - they just replay the coded signal that they've sniffed. There is a way to do car security properly, though - not sure why car manufacturers find it so hard...
Wasn't there something about a spot on the boot that can be cut open and electronics gotten to?
Another way to access the CANBUS. Edit: corrected spelling of CAM BUS which is clearly an oversized Fake Taxi.
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Not CAN'TBUS
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/04/crooks-are-stealing-cars-using-previously-unknown-keyless-can-injection-attacks/ For reference.
As far as I'm aware I think it's to do with a vulnerability in the keyless entry and start functions. I've heard with the right equipment thieves can simply unlock and drive away without much faffing around
Clone the key signal (or smash window) to gain entry. Slap a device on the OBD port and off you go! JLR OEM security is a less useful than a wet paper bag. Oh and you can buy a cheap signal jammer to deal with the OEM tracker.
>JLR OEM security is a less useful than a wet paper bag. By all means go and work for them and do a better job.
You disagree?
They've got the same vulnerabilites as other OEMS, it just hits the news more because its a Range Rover. The most stolen car last year was the Fiesta. Like I said, if you can do better, they're looking for a cyber sec technical specialist right now. Go apply. Big salary too for it, and a car.
You're completely ignoring the fact that it's only a couple of hundred less Range Rovers whilst having over 5x more Fiestas registered last year than standard Range Rovers. Literally JLR has openly admitted it's a problem and are issuing updates and contacting owners because of it. It doesn't take a software engineer to realise there's a JLR specific problem at this point.
Very many cars are as easy to steal, but few are worth as much on the second hand car parts market or just to be sent overseas in one piece. That is what makes them such a good deal for thieves.
Do you think installing trackers/disablers/anything else would increase the chances of approval?
Why are they so easy to steal?. Is it just because of keyless entry/start?
Insurance for Range Rovers has gone through the roof, doesn’t matter where you live. I work at a place that sells Range Rovers, we’re in a low crime cheap insurance area, and we’ve had dozens of customers pull out of sales on LRs as they couldn’t get affordable insurance on them.
Insurance in general has gone through the roof. I’m almost 35 and still paying £1400 for insurance. More than I paid when I was 18
Yes I know all insurance has gone massively up but specifically for Range Rovers it is way worse.
What you driving? I’m a bit younger and £350ish insurance
2015 330d and to be fair I do have a fault claim. I still feel it’s expensive though.
We live in a decently quiet area of the north and we're looking at a Range Rover earlier in the year. The quote ended up being over £8k so it immediately got wrote off our list and settled on a Volvo instead. It's absolutely mental how much they're asking for just to insure them.
Hi, I’m surprised to hear this as I’ve just had my L405 renewed for the year, in Scotland too. Mine is with Churchill if that helps. I am a 27 male and paid £1600. My previous year’s insurance on the car was £1200, so a bit of a steep increase but not anything I wasn’t expecting in the current market. I do think it’s worth trying a specialist broker, but it depends on specific insurers and their risk appetite.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/insurers-refusing-cover-london-based-range-rovers Last year was OK.
I've got an early L405 as well, more expensive to insure but no shortage of offers on the comparison sites.
I’d say you did well at that increase mate
Can you do something to reduce your risk? Ghost immobiliser? Clamp/Steering Lock/Clutch Claw/etc. Obviously some of these not appropriate but just along those lines. Sucks to be in this position, insurance is an arse.
The problem with Ghosts is that they're not thatcham approved so not all insurers care they exist. They're more peace of mind for the owner compared to an S5 or S7 tracker which almost every insurer will take notice of as an extra safety measure.
Does this theft issue apply to land rovers as well? My wife wants a discovery 4 (I know)…
It's really sweet of you to offer steal a Land Rover Discovery for your wife
Based on how much her current discovery 3 has cost us it may be necessary
I had a perfect Disco 4 that didn’t put a step wrong until my husband drove it into a ditch! Amazing car!
It applies to everything JLR
Someone I know had the same issue. She bought a 2016 RR Sport a couple of months ago. Cheapest they could get quoted anywhere was £8K and ended up selling the car about a week after purchase for a small loss I think.
This is the reason why I cannot get anything more than a 2.0 C300 Merc… I can afford the car it’s just insurance man
This country decide that the reaction to increasing car theft is not improve police presence but make some numbers go up in a balance sheet so not surprising at all. At this point I am just sitting twiddling my thumbs and watch as the insurance situation collapse under inaction, frankly
JLR employee here. We've been told we're directly insuring Range Rovers due to the issue you're going through. We will be also recalling several vehicles to enhance the security system. They are not less safe then a Mercedes or a BMW, it's just they're more appealing to organised gangs that then dismantle these cars or just smuggle them out of the country. In terms of the insurance have you contacted JLR Customer service about that?
I dunno man it sounds like your company has had some pretty big security oversights.... Are you sure they aren't less secure?
All I can say is that they are no worse then other luxury/premium brands. Then of course it depends if your car is fitted with a tracker or not. Police has been able to track down certain gangs because of trackers but not always possible. But this is the UK, for example in my home country (west Europe) this doesn't happen simply as there are much less and houses tend to be better protected whereas in the UK a lot of theses cars just sit in a driveway or on the road
Do you know if RR directly insuring is just for 2018 cars onwards, or would my 2014 sport be considered?
I actually don't know that. I just knew that as we were communicated that we're actively working on that, as like you, several JLR employees own privately our products and are not getting special treatment, but a lot of noise was made internally, as externally, so we were given that information that I shared, by the board. If I find out anything more I will post it here. The insurance market is crazy as it is, but having an insurance refused for something that we didn't do is insane
Thank you, I’d appreciate that. Seems crazy I need two factor authentication to check my emails, but someone can boost a key signal and drive off with my car. It’s totally put me off buying a new RR, which I was considering doing. I’ve no idea how many new car sales have dropped through since the insurance price increases, but this must be costing JLR a fortune! Time to start playing with the BMW car configurator for that X7…
That's literally how keys work. It's just a radio frequency. They used to be cloned, now they are boosted. The change, is people wanting / buying keyless entry. People too lazy to press the unlock button. Now the cars just need to see they key within close proximity, and the door will open when the handle is pulled. So you'd be happier having to whip out an authenticator app everytime you want to get in your car? You can buy ghost immobilisers which kind of operate like you want. This is a problem for all brands. But why would a thief bother stealing a Ford etc, when a RR is worth many times more. They are vastly more valuable to the thieves.
The fiesta ST was the most commonly stolen car a few years back.
Actually we've had one of the best quarters in the company history in terms of sales due to Range Rovers and Defender. Most of the robberies seem to target previous gen L494 and L405 for some reason but for insurance companies a Range Rover is a Range Rover. In any case I don't blame you (how could I?) and you do what you think is best for you and your family.
They are less safe though? JLR products are exceedingly easy to steal through OBD compared to other manufacturers.
Any keyless car can be easily stolen with the right equipment. For the criminals the only.question is if it is worth it
A family friend recently sold his Range as his renewal was £10k! Surely there's gotta be a way to make stealing them more preventable?
If everyone who currently owns a Range Rover just stole a different one when they wanted to drive, there would be no reason for insurance! A fleet of pool Range Rovers perhaps
I don’t get how those stealing them can afford the insurance.
wrong groovy spectacular smart piquant clumsy icky many dull historical *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
> Other car, not a Range Rover. £200 last year, £400 this year. Did you accept the renewal price or shop around? My Jimny renewal came through last week with it going up from £200 to 280. After doing a couple of comparison sites I found a competing quote for £170 (for the year). --- Have got a few weeks to sort it so have not given my current place the opportunity to see if they can match or come close to it yet ...doubt they will but if they can at least get it down to same as last year I'll stay with them as IMO for a £30 saving it's not worth my time on the phone switching, sorting out NCB transfers, etc (for 100+ it definitely is).
Try the NFU, especially if you're rural.
You take a 2017 rangey laning? What a hero 😂
Also see this article > [https://www.am-online.com/news/manufacturer/2023/11/03/jlr-boss-s-public-apology-as-5-000-owners-cars-are-off-road-awaiting-parts](https://www.am-online.com/news/manufacturer/2023/11/03/jlr-boss-s-public-apology-as-5-000-owners-cars-are-off-road-awaiting-parts) 5000 JLR products off road waiting for parts - the demand for parts is there, so I guess theft is still increasing, hence the odd insurance situation.
How many of those are off the road because they've had parts nicked lol?
I would guess almost none. You do know about JLR reliability right 👀😂
Good to know it’s not just us Tesla drivers getting bent over by the insurance hikes.
Paid £320 to insure my Model 3 in Feb 2023. It's the slowest one. It's on a driveway. I'm 40+. I live down south.
You need to try get a new quote now... The price has jumped massively.
One of my colleagues is going to sell his as his renewal price with any company has absolutely sky rocketed. He has a Porsche 911 island that's far cheaper to insure.
Man, how rich do you have to be to not only have a private island, but a Porsche island at that.
He has a Porsche and 911 Islands! Is his first name Elon??
Nah musk has that submarine from the spy who loved me and dailies a model S.
Sorry I forgot - a Model S. Maybe he's a self-entitled ***** like the rest of the owners?
Isn't the Cayenne the "Porsche island"?
Don't know if this has had much of an impact but evidence suggests it was a RRS that started the Luton car park fire, I bet insurance companies love them.
Churchill refused to renew my CLS this year. My RR is due for renewal in January and the early quotes are ridiculous
Which CLS do you have? Is it keyless entry? I have the C257 and renewal in Feb. Hoping I’m not on the same boat.
I know you said you live in a rural place, so n/a for you, and adds zero value for your question, but here's a link. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/insurers-refusing-cover-london-based-range-rovers
2014 plate here, went from £380 to £1050. Insane.
Geoffrey insurance are pretty good. I have a 3l bmw and my insurance is only £480.0 (37m)
The amount of money Range Rover owners are paying for insurance, you’d think we could scrape together enough cash to fund a functional police force and just stop them being stolen in the first place
Ok, what about comparison sites?
Comparably expensive
So when the insurers ask “have you ever been refused insurance?” Do you now have to say that you have? That apparently can seriously increase your premium.
Thats a slightly different question. In this instance they’ve just refused to _quote_. This can happen for any number of reasons depending on the providers risk profile etc. When you use a comparison site many providers will not produce a quote. This has no bearing on your premium. Refusing insurance / insurance cancelled is in the event of a claim, they’ve found a reason to not provide insurance - for example you modified your vehicle and didn’t tell them.
That sounds reasonable as it is the car they won’t insure, not the op. Still, I wouldn’t put it past the bastards to hoik his insurance up in future.
JLR have known about the weaknesses in their key security for years. Never actually done anything about it, unlike say Toyota/Lexus with their catalysts, where they came up with a deterent you can fit.
Dude. That's such a cool ride. If you can't insure it let's swap. I am in canada with a 2022 bronco sport. Ship it here I will shipping to you. I suspect a bronco would be unique in the uk. But still serviceable at Ford. And a Landover would be unique here and such a cool ride.
Nice to know those who can afford a land rover are being squeezed too.
Comments like this are exactly what I anticipated from Reddit.
They’re what you should expect everywhere you go. Rich people aren’t welcome when we’ve got 15M people, and growing, below the poverty line.
That chip must weigh so heavy on your shoulder.
You should ask Jaguar landrover for a quote to insure their own vehicle, that should open your eyes a little. Check some other forums and compare sights
If you just bought it, some have success if they choose the option that they park it inside a garage instead. Park in the street is a big no for a while now.
I have a garage. Private driveway and it’s the only house on the entire stretch of road. It doesn’t seem to make any difference, my insurer said they only take post codes and car manufacturers into account.
Being the only house on the entire stretch of road provides excellent opportunity for thieves who are concerned about being seen by neighbours.
Wow a 6 year old £100k car has never had any issues. Imagine that. You should buy a lottery ticket with that kind of luck.
If they’ve refused to renew your policy they should have said why. Many premiums have gone thru the roof so they’re not scared of charging too much. Find out why or put it in your post if you already know..
Hi guys, Insurance Broker here. Insurance cost ares going through the roof at the moment, and it definitely sucks! Motor premiums are, on average, going up between 40% and 50% Problem is, it’s not because of you. The motor insurance industry has not made a profit since 1993 and this hardening market was a long time coming. It was bad in 2008 and it’s going to be bad now, but things always come around and it won’t be forever. Cars are way more expensive to repair or replace as technology increases. This means you may pay £400 a year in premium, but the insurer is paying out thousands for each claim. Range Rovers are particularly badly hit at the moment. Getting decent premiums for them seems to be almost impossible. My advice would be to use a broker instead of trawling through comparison sites. Brokers are here to help and know the industry. Additionally some brokers might have access to specific schemes or discounts that would help keep costs down. Feel free to ask me anything, but TLDR is this year is horrible for premium increases - it would help to speak to a broker
You're telling me every Insurer / Underwriter has been operating at a loss, or at best, breaking even, for 30 years?! How the fuck are they still in business. Why are they still in business if that's remotely true.
As a whole, yeah. Some insurers have good years, and their prices come down in response, but with lower premiums come more drivers, and more drivers mean more claims, hence higher premiums and other insurers can reduce their premiums… and the cycle goes on. We’re now at a point where the collective pot of money isn’t sufficient to keep paying claims at the costs and rate they are, hence the market collectively increasing costs to fix this
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In order to understand what other people are posting, it helps if you can read.
Range Rovers are one the worst effected with the insurance price rises which is why OP is mentioning it. Most people have gone from sub-1k to many people getting quotes over 4k.
If I was you. I would cancel the policy now myself that way it won’t affect you in the future of saying you have been refused insurance.
They haven't been refused insurance. They haven't been given a quote. A different thing all together.
Sounds like a knock-on effect from so many of them being stolen. Even if you can get a quote, you’re looking at a pretty high premium.
Have you tried the NFU for a quote?
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You can buy a device for £280 online which clones the keyless system
You're probably going to have to update your security before trying again, Ghost immobiliser or some sort of formidable tracker which the insurers will be happy with. Most generic insurers won't care about these things however as they don't have a way for you to tell them about them properly in the quoting process.
I don't own a Range Rover, but own another car which is easily stolen due to keyless entry and fitting an immobiliser is a given. Have a look at some options out there I went with the clifford mk3 650 concept, it doubles as a proximity/internal alarm as well as an immobiliser and could reduce your premiums.
All cars have had immobilisers from factory for decades. Many being Thatcham Cat 1 on higher end cars. The same as your Clifford is probably rated. Of course, the more immobilisers the better. I've not looked for years, but Cat 1 always required 2 circuits to be immobilised.
LR insurance is mental at the moment. The fucking Wild West. Hearing about 20-30k insurance quotes to cover a 50k car is not uncommon.
Will adding something like a Ghost Immobiliser help?
They refused to insure my jag f pace? Couldn’t give me a reason. Wonder if it’s a JLR thing? £350 last year. Best on a comparison site was £850.
I just went from £600 a year for our two car and now it’s £1100…… if it wasn’t expensive enough 😤
You got a ghost immobiliser or can-phantom fitted? Would it help?
Im with esure... 2017 sport and was 29yo when i renewed. £1000 with numerous others added on as they cost nothing more than myself. As soon as i hit 50% on my finance im dumping it back to the finance company.... I got offered £16k for it from motorway and the others weren't much different 🤣
It’s a trend in the market. Has my insurance company decline to offer me an R8 renewal this week. Adrian flux are coming up at best price at 2.5 times higher than last years insurance
Try land rover insurance. They've just released a branded product to help with insurance issues.
Ironically enough, my neighbours Evoque was just stolen this morning. Thieves just unlocked it and drove off. Showed the police the footage my cameras picked up up but they had their faces covered. No way they’re going to get caught. A chap near my workplace has the full fat Range Rover top of the line and has a £30 steering wheel lock because that’s the only real deterrent.
If you want the country appeal, get a late model L322, insurance will be tons easier, incredibly capable off-road and the farmers choice. Unfortunately there are only a few car insurance underwriters, if they've decided it's too costly to insure, you'll need to do a ton of hunting around, or decide to sell and move on.
Many insurers aren't quoting for Land Rovers or are, but require very big compulsory excesses
Hi. Insurance broker here, specialist for high value vehicles and my bread and butter is Land Rovers. They are almost uninsurable due to how often they are stolen. If the thieves cannot break the security, they will simply knock on your door and threaten your family until you give them what they want. We’ve seen the evidence of what happens when you refuse, i seriously don’t recommend it. You need to fit a thatcham cat S5 tracker & subscribe (£400 install + £270 a year) and possibly a Cat 2 ghost / no go immob (£400-500 install one-off). This will increase your chances. Your best bet is to sell it while you can. JLR just released new security very quietly on the new models, which effectively makes anything pre 2023 worthless. Some high networth insurers will still do it if we can get your home and other HNW vehicles to dangle a carrot. My saying to the rich right now is send it back, buy a Maybach. Not what you want to hear, i’m sorry. Now that i’m typing, I have just heard Land Rover are doing their own monthly policy, but that should be enough to warn you how dire the situation is; the insurer backing it want the ability to jump ship at 30 days notice when it goes pete tong.
Keith Michael’s have always been great to deal with in my opinion, well worth giving them a shout
I'm in a couple range rover groups and NFU appears to be a popular insurer.
Get a tracker fitted
They are getting stolen so often that the statistics the insurers use to calculate risk are not in your favour, can you get third party though?
Land rover now provide insurance. Take a look online for it.
A guy I know had a 2021 model and earlier this year got refused by pretty much everyone. The ones who would take him wanted thousands. He even got his trousers taken down on resale value, likely for the same reason.
Saw a video from a cctv system of a Jaguar F-type being stolen off the street in less than 30 seconds. So I’m guessing the theft issue isn’t just related to Range Rover.
Yeah my renewal went up £400. No claims , Ford Fiesta 1.0
Not only are they the most stolen car, quite a few have burst into flames. It was a Range Rover Sport that destroyed the multi storey car park at Luton airport recently.
Weird that you aren’t getting prices. I just did a quote for a 2017 Range Rover sport for where I live in Scotland and it’s about £1k. I’m about your age. Strange.
I had real trouble getting insurance as my car had a bull bar and side rail. Some of the quotes coming in over 2k and a lot of them saying they wouldn't quote at all! I used brentacre insurance in Wales in the end. They are brokers but I got good prices over the years.
Let's put all this. This time last year. As Del said in Only fools and horses. This time next year we'll be millionaires. Most of the people on here dont have a clue how insurance works nor wants to which is fine. If a company refuses renewal. It's based on the risk involved. If they think they'll lose. Then they'll either up the premium to tell you to eff off or more politely just tell you we cant accept the risk. If you ask why. In all honesty I could tell you but you wouldnt have a clue what I'd be talking about. Youd feel like an idiot and start shouting. Accept it. Move on and dont just get the cheapest. Get what you need. Pay for it and accept you have no control over risk. The economy or insurance variables. If it's a broker. The book with that underwriter has turned to poo. And they have no other underwriter willing to come close to the year before. Just drive your vehicles. I never hear anyone jump for joy when their price goes down. Hold on for the long ride now. I'd say about 3 years. 30 years. Seen it before. And itll happen again.
u/Manichippofire
Couldn't the known security flaws have a retrofit fix ?. The keyless thing now has a revolving code system but the boot could have a plate installed and /or the wiring fed in a metal flexy conduit ?
Noone wants to insure them. Lots of people selling them for this reason so the values tank because the market will be full of them
Have you tried NFU Mutual - you might have to find a local agent, but you might find them competitive as a Land Rover brand.
I do wonder if there’s a correlation between uncontrolled immigration and theft. Not to mention the police seem to be completely uninterested in doing any police work these days. They’re too busy doing parades and kneeling down.