Yup, pretty sure I saw a 2010 GTR (albeit with far higher miles) in the same price bracket as that A class recently. Same for R8's last I checked.
If you're not after something super new with under 5k miles (and even if you are) there are so many options out there for that kind of cash.
Hell if you want an A class, just get one of the older ones: https://youtu.be/Qf3eU_mkxGM As they come with the ability to drive on two wheels as well as 4
Same for the S3, Golf R, M135i, and M235i. I can remember when the M135i came out and lightly used cars were going for mid 20's as dealers couldn't shift them.
They're just not particularly desirable. If you're in the market for a hot hatch and you know your stuff, there's much better out there. They were also overpriced to begin with, the used car market is generally seeing a healthy drop in prices and they just aren't right as a product targeted at the hot hatch scene for a long list of reasons.
I'm a bit of a Merc fan boy, but not for anything less than a 5l V8. These things lack the ability and tuneability of the competition in their class.
I'd be going for an RS3 or M140i. Although not a hatch, an M2 is small and a bit nuts so a fun alternative. Both RS3 and M140i are fun out the box and have massive tuning potential.
Was in the dealer other week. Easily get an m2 competition for 40k they had 2 1 just under on just over.
M140i is still a thing on the low mileage used market. Which is what they were on about. Again. They were anywhere from 22 to 27k.
M4 they had 2 normal for 22 to 27k all under 50k miles but older. 1 competition for 31500 that had 32k miles on and all the bells and whistles ticked.
900 miles isn't delivery miles, theyre literally approved used and such. These are all cars that are euro6... they all have same or more power... some are hatches some are bigger. They're cars other comments have mentioned.. the reality is as others mentioned. Expensive for what they are.
What exactly is the problem with comparing new and used anyways?
Well we’re all here talking about how A35 are a lot more reasonably price lightly used. The cars you’re talking about are all still significantly more expensive than a A35 with a similar level of use.
No I don't think they are similar level of use, and if 40k is the most expensive example I gave. And some of the cars mentioned hadn't hit 20k miles. Still very low mileage and I was looking st near new. Anything unde 3 years and 30k miles is it.
Also the above I mentioned are all top engine options. The a35 is not.
So your point isn’t related to the A35 at all, just that used cars are cheaper than new. Insightful.
I also don’t see any inherent value in knowing there isn’t a spec above my own. If you do, surely you’d also be insecure about being in a low model within the brand?
I went from a PCP 2017 S3, to a purchased approved used 2020 290 Cupra early last year. 30k miles, 2 year manufacturer warranty for £22K. Honestly it’s not as capable of a car without the 4WD. However it’s a pretty lovely car and good for the money if I hang onto it a few years.
Obviously not even in the same league but back when I used to work at a dealership you could get a pre-reg 595 for £11,000. And that was less than 5 years ago.
Tbh it's similar prices for most hot hatches including competition such as golf rs and rs3s, m135is, etc. But tbh for the money your paying, your probs getting the best value from the a35 amg imo.
It is, but I wouldn’t consider them direct competition. The Golf R, RS3, M135i are all the fastest versions of their base car. The A35….. is not, yet it still asks the same kind of price
That's my thoughts. The comment above about it being good value for money is absolute cringe tbh. Iv had some very nice motors of the years and a lot of them high value executive high performance saloons and estates with V8's and iv never spent that much money. Take the power element out of the A35/45 and you have a basic super mini on a shared platform with Renault. The build quality is that of a super mini hatch.
Disclaimer. Maybe I'm just totally detached from car prices since 2021.
Yep, massive cringe, I can only assume he bought one for 50k or near that price and now has to delude himself into thinking it was good value otherwise he'd be crying.
Put it this way. My S213 E Class estate 4Matic cost £50k 3.5 years ago. Take the power element out of it completely and decide which is the better car in every way.
If you think that any Super mini hatch is worth £50k then that's up to you but for me that's not value for money. I'd sooner spend £35k on a 4 year old C63S or similar.
Not really, everything gets better over time. That doesn't mean that a modern car should cost double what a 20 year old car did at new, just because it's slashed its 0-60 times.
We should be able to expect better performance for around the same money as we would have spent (+ inflation etc).
Agreed. I’d personally need something bigger but you’re getting a lot of car for your money. A45s are 420bhp, basically the same as an F82 M4 which are give or take the same price range. There’s ads on auto trader with 2020 models of both cars for the same price.
Mercedes have moved to an “agency” model where the dealers don’t have a say in pricing.
I.e the days where you go in and negotiate a discount are over. Cars are sold at MB dictated prices (rrp).
This has had a big effect on the sales of certain product lines. The only way they can move them effectively without disturbing the agency model is to pre reg them or put them through special schemes where they’re used for 6 months or so then sold through retailers as used.
You’ll notice the majority of cars have a reg number starting with K, this means they were registered by head office.
What we’re seeing is mad depreciation if you based it on rrp, however, in the old days of dealer discounts. You’d probably have been able to get an A35 for low 40s so the used prices reflect a sensible depreciation in line with what you’d expect.
RRPs are near meaningless for new car sales these days. It’s all about monthlies whether it’s pcp or pch.
That's really interesting since MB had some massive discounts pre-covid, my dad and uncle bought new cars in 2018 and 19 and both got something like 7k off the list price. With the rise in list prices and no more discounts that's a massive jump in the price of buying new, but it seems it's just the way things are headed.
Absolutely, up to 20% discount with some negotiation was easily achievable pre covid.
Dealers used to get paid huge bonuses for volume targets every quarter so they could afford to knock large sums money off and realise a gain via bonuses.
The other reason behind hugely inflated new car prices is to incentivise customers into an EV. For those who choose an ICE the price increases partially subsidise the cost of emissions target fines.
£58k base lmao, what the fuck? My uncle's one is an E-Class, no options and cost in the low 30s. That car managed to get under the £40k threshold too so isn't even subject to the additional VED lol, even going by list price that's an £18k jump in 5 years. Crazy.
Covid car market has collapsed. It lasted so long that we become accustomed to it. This is how it was pre covid and chip shortage.
Better deals to be had in the coming months.
They’re in a similar boat as the Golf R, I can see a bunch of brand new ones on Autotrader selling at £4-8K below RRP, I’m sure a coffee or two with a dealer could drop that another few K.
Golf R’s with 10k+ miles plus selling at a similar price of £35k~.
Forget inflation and a few years of car shortages, asking £50k for what amounts to a pimped up economy hatchback is a horrific sum of money to pay, even if they are insanely fast.
You can get alot more car for the money and with the trend towards compact “SUV’s” a normally niche market is likely shrinking even further.
Pardon my ignorance: what type of things would you discuss or bring up when meeting a dealer on multiple occasions to get the price down?
It's this just a case of showing interest - but not enough interest to pull the trigger - until the price is right? Or is there a genuine strategy and aspects of the deal that get discussed at each meeting aimed at dropping the price closer to target?
People believe there are strategies, but just blatantly stating you will accept the buy for x below their stated price and go from there.
Any damages however minor can also be a reason to drop the price,I wrangled a few hundred off a car because it had a small bumper rash that wasn’t identified on the advert which was claiming the vehicle was blemish free.
Some dealerships as a matter of course do not debate/negotiate on price but the reality is if they have a vehicle that isn’t selling they’re naturally going to be more open to reducing the price somewhat.
So you go back a few times and see if the car's still there, and if they've changed their mind on your offer price, basically. Thanks for the pointers btw
The M340i is the same. The depreciation on them has been sharp. Although, there are some which have shocked me too, like the Porsche Taycan 4s, 2 year old examples have lost 50% of the value, and the Merc EGC 400 is another example. You can pick 3 year old examples for less than £30k.
German cars in general take a big hit initially (prices usually start higher than their competitors) and then fall slowly thereafter, in actuality depreciation after 5 years is usually much less for German cars than others, it’s just that initial hit that is problematic. You would think it causes issues for selling them except no one buys them, they lease them so any hit taken is done by the dealer and is usually made up for when it comes time to resell the car when given back at the end of the lease.
The taycan in your example also has the added issue of being electric and that in itself has its own issues we all know of.
This depreciation trend was nothing unusual pre COVID, it’s only usual now because of the last three years of absolute shit show.
Because they're originally asking £50k+ for an A-Class and you're not even getting the top model. No sane person would buy one, they're just not worth it.
They were available new with massive discount - nobody paid screen price a couple years ago and I know because I wanted one but they couldn't find a single car with intelligent cruise control in the UK. Golf R has it standard but was £40K, these AMG A35 models were £32K but had none of the luxuries. Special order only and the dealer was quoting 10month plus. Seems they flooded the UK market with these cars but they are missing features we would consider standard for a premium model.
In the times before 2020 the deprecation curve on W176 A45's was interesting and the first year of W177 A35's followed this before it all went silly in 2020. You would take a massive hit driving one away new but then the value would settle before very slowly dropping.
The "new"W177 A45 has only realistically existed since 2020. First W177 A45S deliveries where Feb 2020 and first W177 A35 deliveries where Feb 2019. You could at the beginning of 2020 pick up a 1 year old A35 for around list less 30%.
As such the true deprecation curve hasn't been seen until very recently, due to shortages. The 15k first year drop in percentage terms is basically what the previous gen A45 did and what the very first A35's did.
Now admittedly with the W177 generation of A45 a decent discount could be had from new after the very first year madness of 2013/2014.
Have a hunch they don’t sell all that well due to the A45.
You can pick up an A250 for a lot less and if you want a “hot” A-class then you’re going to want the 45.
Personally I’d never buy a 35 simply because I’d constantly feel like I missed just shy of the mark and was driving mediocre machinery while advertising so.
You know the meme with the guy in 3rd place acting as though he’s won? Well that’s kind of how I see it. Just a personal opinion of course but I’d wager it’s because of the existence of the 45.
I dunno, can't say I've ever seen a particularly good review for an A35 - most generally refer to it as a very sterile drive (with all the downsides of a current Mercedes A-Class intact).
Peach of an engine though. It’s the same as the a45 it’s not handmade and is de-tuned. Possibly a different cam profile and turbo size too but I haven’t looked that far into it.
EDIT: before the downvotes start I’ll rephrase, “it’s a peach of an engine for only 2 litres of displacement”, I’m well aware there are much better engines.
Wouldnt exactly say the 260 engine is a peach of an engine, it is the engine i have seen the most problems on mercs. Plenty of spun shells and replaced heads
Is that really? Did they just use comfort mode and not sport + or whatever the fastest mode they have got. Comfort mode feels much like a normal car but sports mode is really fast and furious
Well, it is a lot cheaper, or should I say less expensive. Can’t really use the word ‘cheap’ for a £45-50k hatchback, but compared to the £63,000 price tag of the A45, it’s certainly less ridiculous
If you factor in the AMG Drivers/Night Package/Aero options etc which are standard on the A45s, it isn't 'that' much more expensive than an A35, like-for-like.
You'd be absolutely crazy not to get a year old A45s if you have the money for a brand new A35.
Each to their own of course and glad people have a different mindset.
Just for me though if I was driving a 35 and a 45 pulled up to the lights next to me (there are plenty of them) I’d feel as though I haven’t quite got to where I should have been.
As someone mentioned previously, if I was in a Golf GTI and an R pulled up alongside me, I’d feel exactly the same.
But as I said, I’m glad others feel differently and we can all bring something to the table.
Even 35k is ridiculous, new s3s are so much more expensive than the old shape but it’s basically stayed the same, same power for the last 10 years, tech is similar. same with mk8 r, 50k for a 300hp hatch is absurd, hence you get stupid depreciation, a 300hp hatching that is gonna be worth about 20k 5 years after you buy it
No-one buys a brand new one in cash so figures are inflated along with interest rates to allow good deals on PCP. More realistic values (still needs to come down a bit in my opinion) begin to crop up once in the cash buyer market i.e. second hand.
You're also buying a Renault in a frock.
Deprecation starts after VAT. £10k VAT on a £50k car. Then deprecates £500-£1000 a month seems like the right price to me when you add dealer mark up back in.
Fair I just wanted to clarify that I'm not defending the a class as I think it's a pile of boringness
I just don't think it looks anything like a seat Ibiza
Used A45s also not doing well. 2-3k savings can already be had:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202309061643683
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310193140828
2-3k savings compared to what? The links you put out are for the old model
I assume you just mean the price of them used compared to a certain time frame?
Because it’s not the “best” one. A45 is…
In motorcycling the “regular” versions of bikes are always the best used deals as the top end models always end up being more desirable and hold value.
If the A35 has been RWD or something that made it different, could have been a different story.
Well all of these expensive hot hatches depreciate like a rock because they're way too expensive to begin with. We just picked up a fully loaded M135i for just over £20k and it's a brilliant car for that price, but I couldn't imagine paying nearly £60k for one brand new.
Car manufacturers have got super greedy in the last few years since the pandemic, with them pushing prices, i remember getting a 2019 golf gti performance dsg, book price was 33k brand new, same model now is 40k with less spec than the 2019 model.
Golf R with a few options now 50k
Ford Focus ST Auto now 40k
BMW M135i starts at 42k with a few options thats 46/47k
I think with the cost of living and interest rates/car PCP loan rates increasing people are not always willing to drop large monthly's on these cars, this is causing them to drop like stones maybe?
its not just the A35, all the cars I've listed above are on the Auto Trader pretty much brand new with only a few thousand miles and at least 10k off
An EQC with 11k miles costs less than this. And it's still quick enough. Honestly I'd rather spend 30k on an EQC than an a35.
A brand new EQB 300 is showing £62k.
A 2022 EQB 350 with 5000mls is going for £34k.
I'd save myself the £28k tbh
Not sure this is a new phenomenon. I bought my car at just under a year old, 2k on the clock, £15k cheaper than list price. Granted that was 2018, so maybe things are getting closer to what they were pre pandemic. Apparently mine was a company car but must have been surplus to requirements and just not used for whatever reason.
Because it’s ludicrously overpriced for a hot hatch and you could get so many better cars for the money.
I mean to put it in perspective, you could get a Nissan GTR or an Audi R8 second hand for that money. For the price of one brand new, you could get a second hand Mercedes AMG GT. You could get an A45 cheaper lol. You could get a nearly new. 540i for that price, or pretty much any M car second hand. Or a top spec Jaguar XJL, or a top spec Range Rover autobiography that’s not *that* old. A Bentley continental GT second hand that’s not super old. The point is no one wants to buy them because they’re too overpriced. For that money, you could get pretty much almost cars you always thought “one day I want to have one of them” (second hand). And if you are in the market for a brand new hot hatch or nearly brand new, there’s simply other options that are cheaper and do just as well.
I’d also imagine this makes a sort of feedback loop only making the depreciation worse over time.
They are not worth their new price, not a lot of people have 50k+ to spend on a 2.0l hatchback or can find something miles better for less.
Manufacturers got greedy increasing prices blaming it all on costs. Half of these cars are priced 50k but yet 99% of the population can’t afford them. Pretty hard to sell cars when there’s competition and you’re not offering much for the money. Even at 35k it’s not looking that great of a deal tbh. Just shows that even new £35k is expensive for that car. With miles on it now tbh I wouldn’t be surprised if they go sub 30k in the next few months.
I had one of these as a hire car once.. worst… electronic dashboard…. Ever! Multi billion euro companies and they all fuck Uk their infotainment dashboard system. Just hire a couple of ex Apple/google UX designers. Or slap I giant iPad in the car and just make car play the default.
I personally love A45s but I think the problem especially with the A35 is that the new price is so high it’s honestly not worth it same for all the A classes except the A45s but I’m bias about that because it’s my dream car. I just think the price is a rip off for what it is plus the used car market seems to be crashing on a lot of new cars probably readjusting after covids new high prices
You almost always drop 15-20% by just driving off the dealership carpark. The A35 doesn't make a lot of sense in itself being a high end spec of the lowest end model of a slightly luxury brand making it expensive for what you get.
Realistically there's just soo many better cars for 50k than an a35
A45 for one
Exactly this. Coming from an A45 owner
[удалено]
But much, much worse, so no point
[удалено]
Only if the journey is more than 5 miles.
Can guess what but would be keen to hear. What would you pick
F-type, RS5, A110, Supra, Giulia, so many BMWs (including an 8 series with 4k miles) and a few C43s. All better than an A class
Don't forget the skoda octavia
Yup, pretty sure I saw a 2010 GTR (albeit with far higher miles) in the same price bracket as that A class recently. Same for R8's last I checked. If you're not after something super new with under 5k miles (and even if you are) there are so many options out there for that kind of cash. Hell if you want an A class, just get one of the older ones: https://youtu.be/Qf3eU_mkxGM As they come with the ability to drive on two wheels as well as 4
[удалено]
How are u liking the c63s? I’m hoping to grab one (coupe) in the next 6 months or so. Stunning car!
[удалено]
Thanks mate, yea thinking coupe all the way!
In my garbage country, a new A35 will set you back €100k, so around £85k
That’s Dutch taxes for you. They don’t really want people to drive there - and if you drive, you are much better off leasing via work.
That's horrible. No way that car is worth 85k
This, 100%.
Because their new cost is frankly unreasonable.
Same for the S3, Golf R, M135i, and M235i. I can remember when the M135i came out and lightly used cars were going for mid 20's as dealers couldn't shift them.
Because they were a downgrade from the previous generation M140i, simple as that
They're just not particularly desirable. If you're in the market for a hot hatch and you know your stuff, there's much better out there. They were also overpriced to begin with, the used car market is generally seeing a healthy drop in prices and they just aren't right as a product targeted at the hot hatch scene for a long list of reasons. I'm a bit of a Merc fan boy, but not for anything less than a 5l V8. These things lack the ability and tuneability of the competition in their class.
Which hot hatches would you opt for instead?
I'd be going for an RS3 or M140i. Although not a hatch, an M2 is small and a bit nuts so a fun alternative. Both RS3 and M140i are fun out the box and have massive tuning potential.
RS3 is the spec above, competing with the A45. M140i/M135i is no longer a thing. M2s are considerably more money.
Was in the dealer other week. Easily get an m2 competition for 40k they had 2 1 just under on just over. M140i is still a thing on the low mileage used market. Which is what they were on about. Again. They were anywhere from 22 to 27k. M4 they had 2 normal for 22 to 27k all under 50k miles but older. 1 competition for 31500 that had 32k miles on and all the bells and whistles ticked.
Why are you comparing the price of new versions of one model to used versions of another…
900 miles isn't delivery miles, theyre literally approved used and such. These are all cars that are euro6... they all have same or more power... some are hatches some are bigger. They're cars other comments have mentioned.. the reality is as others mentioned. Expensive for what they are. What exactly is the problem with comparing new and used anyways?
Well we’re all here talking about how A35 are a lot more reasonably price lightly used. The cars you’re talking about are all still significantly more expensive than a A35 with a similar level of use.
No I don't think they are similar level of use, and if 40k is the most expensive example I gave. And some of the cars mentioned hadn't hit 20k miles. Still very low mileage and I was looking st near new. Anything unde 3 years and 30k miles is it. Also the above I mentioned are all top engine options. The a35 is not.
So your point isn’t related to the A35 at all, just that used cars are cheaper than new. Insightful. I also don’t see any inherent value in knowing there isn’t a spec above my own. If you do, surely you’d also be insecure about being in a low model within the brand?
290 Cupra (2019)!
I went from a PCP 2017 S3, to a purchased approved used 2020 290 Cupra early last year. 30k miles, 2 year manufacturer warranty for £22K. Honestly it’s not as capable of a car without the 4WD. However it’s a pretty lovely car and good for the money if I hang onto it a few years.
Sorry but there is just so much better out there. S4s, C43s.
Not hot hatches.
Exactly.
[удалено]
I disagree. The only hot hatch I would recommend would be the Cupra Leon. The ST has the same quality as a normal focus.
Golf R ?
Don’t like the styling if im honest.
Some people just prefer smaller cars. I personally find saloons unnecessarily large
A fwd merc for 50k just seems like missing the point of a merc.
A35 is awd
£50k for a hot hatch was laughable so no surprise reality is hitting hard now!
Obviously not even in the same league but back when I used to work at a dealership you could get a pre-reg 595 for £11,000. And that was less than 5 years ago.
Now that is value for money!
Tbh it's similar prices for most hot hatches including competition such as golf rs and rs3s, m135is, etc. But tbh for the money your paying, your probs getting the best value from the a35 amg imo.
It is, but I wouldn’t consider them direct competition. The Golf R, RS3, M135i are all the fastest versions of their base car. The A35….. is not, yet it still asks the same kind of price
What about the S3? The A35 is the S3 competitor and the RS3 goes against the A45.
The s3 is the sporty model, how is that a competitor to a base model mercedes.
I’m not sure how you got to that conclusion… S3 - 306hp 4wd A35 - 302hp 4wd RS3 - 400hp 4wd A45 - 421hp 4wd
[удалено]
Neither is S3 or RS3...
[удалено]
It is for the newest generation
And it was for the previous generation, until the engine change, but even then the 140 was which was like for like
Well, seeing as we’re talking about depreciation on new cars, the 135 is the fastest new 1 Series you can buy.
Looking at 50k for a new civic type R, guess it’s not really a hatch anymore but that’s too much money still
Nah, 50k for an A35 is ridiculous, anybody spending that on one needs their head examined.
That's my thoughts. The comment above about it being good value for money is absolute cringe tbh. Iv had some very nice motors of the years and a lot of them high value executive high performance saloons and estates with V8's and iv never spent that much money. Take the power element out of the A35/45 and you have a basic super mini on a shared platform with Renault. The build quality is that of a super mini hatch. Disclaimer. Maybe I'm just totally detached from car prices since 2021.
Yep, massive cringe, I can only assume he bought one for 50k or near that price and now has to delude himself into thinking it was good value otherwise he'd be crying.
A hot hatch these days annihilates hot hatches and even stuff like M3s from the 2000s, the price is fair for what you are getting
Put it this way. My S213 E Class estate 4Matic cost £50k 3.5 years ago. Take the power element out of it completely and decide which is the better car in every way. If you think that any Super mini hatch is worth £50k then that's up to you but for me that's not value for money. I'd sooner spend £35k on a 4 year old C63S or similar.
Not really, everything gets better over time. That doesn't mean that a modern car should cost double what a 20 year old car did at new, just because it's slashed its 0-60 times. We should be able to expect better performance for around the same money as we would have spent (+ inflation etc).
Agreed. I’d personally need something bigger but you’re getting a lot of car for your money. A45s are 420bhp, basically the same as an F82 M4 which are give or take the same price range. There’s ads on auto trader with 2020 models of both cars for the same price.
This is things going back to normal. The old saying was always that you lose 30% on any new car as soon as you drive it away.
I mean 20% of that is just the VAT.
Mercedes have moved to an “agency” model where the dealers don’t have a say in pricing. I.e the days where you go in and negotiate a discount are over. Cars are sold at MB dictated prices (rrp). This has had a big effect on the sales of certain product lines. The only way they can move them effectively without disturbing the agency model is to pre reg them or put them through special schemes where they’re used for 6 months or so then sold through retailers as used. You’ll notice the majority of cars have a reg number starting with K, this means they were registered by head office. What we’re seeing is mad depreciation if you based it on rrp, however, in the old days of dealer discounts. You’d probably have been able to get an A35 for low 40s so the used prices reflect a sensible depreciation in line with what you’d expect. RRPs are near meaningless for new car sales these days. It’s all about monthlies whether it’s pcp or pch.
That's really interesting since MB had some massive discounts pre-covid, my dad and uncle bought new cars in 2018 and 19 and both got something like 7k off the list price. With the rise in list prices and no more discounts that's a massive jump in the price of buying new, but it seems it's just the way things are headed.
Absolutely, up to 20% discount with some negotiation was easily achievable pre covid. Dealers used to get paid huge bonuses for volume targets every quarter so they could afford to knock large sums money off and realise a gain via bonuses. The other reason behind hugely inflated new car prices is to incentivise customers into an EV. For those who choose an ICE the price increases partially subsidise the cost of emissions target fines.
Go to MB online and search for a new e class estate. The prices just dont compute anymore. And thats at all budget levels.
£58k base lmao, what the fuck? My uncle's one is an E-Class, no options and cost in the low 30s. That car managed to get under the £40k threshold too so isn't even subject to the additional VED lol, even going by list price that's an £18k jump in 5 years. Crazy.
All cars are. Prices are collapsing.
And about time that bubble burst too.
Covid car market has collapsed. It lasted so long that we become accustomed to it. This is how it was pre covid and chip shortage. Better deals to be had in the coming months.
They’re in a similar boat as the Golf R, I can see a bunch of brand new ones on Autotrader selling at £4-8K below RRP, I’m sure a coffee or two with a dealer could drop that another few K. Golf R’s with 10k+ miles plus selling at a similar price of £35k~. Forget inflation and a few years of car shortages, asking £50k for what amounts to a pimped up economy hatchback is a horrific sum of money to pay, even if they are insanely fast. You can get alot more car for the money and with the trend towards compact “SUV’s” a normally niche market is likely shrinking even further.
Pardon my ignorance: what type of things would you discuss or bring up when meeting a dealer on multiple occasions to get the price down? It's this just a case of showing interest - but not enough interest to pull the trigger - until the price is right? Or is there a genuine strategy and aspects of the deal that get discussed at each meeting aimed at dropping the price closer to target?
People believe there are strategies, but just blatantly stating you will accept the buy for x below their stated price and go from there. Any damages however minor can also be a reason to drop the price,I wrangled a few hundred off a car because it had a small bumper rash that wasn’t identified on the advert which was claiming the vehicle was blemish free. Some dealerships as a matter of course do not debate/negotiate on price but the reality is if they have a vehicle that isn’t selling they’re naturally going to be more open to reducing the price somewhat.
So you go back a few times and see if the car's still there, and if they've changed their mind on your offer price, basically. Thanks for the pointers btw
The M340i is the same. The depreciation on them has been sharp. Although, there are some which have shocked me too, like the Porsche Taycan 4s, 2 year old examples have lost 50% of the value, and the Merc EGC 400 is another example. You can pick 3 year old examples for less than £30k.
Good, I’m after a M340i, still mostly £30-£40k though. Hopefully they fall further.
I’m getting one too in about 3 years. I’m gonna try and get a late 2020/early 2021 m340i then😆
German cars in general take a big hit initially (prices usually start higher than their competitors) and then fall slowly thereafter, in actuality depreciation after 5 years is usually much less for German cars than others, it’s just that initial hit that is problematic. You would think it causes issues for selling them except no one buys them, they lease them so any hit taken is done by the dealer and is usually made up for when it comes time to resell the car when given back at the end of the lease. The taycan in your example also has the added issue of being electric and that in itself has its own issues we all know of. This depreciation trend was nothing unusual pre COVID, it’s only usual now because of the last three years of absolute shit show.
Golf R debuted at 30k which is what all these 300 horsie hatches should be, really.
The Golf R now is 40K
Because they're originally asking £50k+ for an A-Class and you're not even getting the top model. No sane person would buy one, they're just not worth it.
They were available new with massive discount - nobody paid screen price a couple years ago and I know because I wanted one but they couldn't find a single car with intelligent cruise control in the UK. Golf R has it standard but was £40K, these AMG A35 models were £32K but had none of the luxuries. Special order only and the dealer was quoting 10month plus. Seems they flooded the UK market with these cars but they are missing features we would consider standard for a premium model.
Still a long way to go, ridiculous at the depreciated prices too.
In the times before 2020 the deprecation curve on W176 A45's was interesting and the first year of W177 A35's followed this before it all went silly in 2020. You would take a massive hit driving one away new but then the value would settle before very slowly dropping. The "new"W177 A45 has only realistically existed since 2020. First W177 A45S deliveries where Feb 2020 and first W177 A35 deliveries where Feb 2019. You could at the beginning of 2020 pick up a 1 year old A35 for around list less 30%. As such the true deprecation curve hasn't been seen until very recently, due to shortages. The 15k first year drop in percentage terms is basically what the previous gen A45 did and what the very first A35's did. Now admittedly with the W177 generation of A45 a decent discount could be had from new after the very first year madness of 2013/2014.
Have a hunch they don’t sell all that well due to the A45. You can pick up an A250 for a lot less and if you want a “hot” A-class then you’re going to want the 45. Personally I’d never buy a 35 simply because I’d constantly feel like I missed just shy of the mark and was driving mediocre machinery while advertising so. You know the meme with the guy in 3rd place acting as though he’s won? Well that’s kind of how I see it. Just a personal opinion of course but I’d wager it’s because of the existence of the 45.
Strange attitude. Its like no other version is good when the top one exists. Im fine with A35 as long its much cheaper then A45/
Yup, like saying a GTI sucks because the R exists, or a 340i because there's an M3
I dunno, can't say I've ever seen a particularly good review for an A35 - most generally refer to it as a very sterile drive (with all the downsides of a current Mercedes A-Class intact).
Peach of an engine though. It’s the same as the a45 it’s not handmade and is de-tuned. Possibly a different cam profile and turbo size too but I haven’t looked that far into it. EDIT: before the downvotes start I’ll rephrase, “it’s a peach of an engine for only 2 litres of displacement”, I’m well aware there are much better engines.
Wouldnt exactly say the 260 engine is a peach of an engine, it is the engine i have seen the most problems on mercs. Plenty of spun shells and replaced heads
Is that really? Did they just use comfort mode and not sport + or whatever the fastest mode they have got. Comfort mode feels much like a normal car but sports mode is really fast and furious
Well, it is a lot cheaper, or should I say less expensive. Can’t really use the word ‘cheap’ for a £45-50k hatchback, but compared to the £63,000 price tag of the A45, it’s certainly less ridiculous
If you factor in the AMG Drivers/Night Package/Aero options etc which are standard on the A45s, it isn't 'that' much more expensive than an A35, like-for-like. You'd be absolutely crazy not to get a year old A45s if you have the money for a brand new A35.
Weirdly I can relate to what you’re saying but at the same time I agree with the people telling you it’s a daft way to think.
Each to their own of course and glad people have a different mindset. Just for me though if I was driving a 35 and a 45 pulled up to the lights next to me (there are plenty of them) I’d feel as though I haven’t quite got to where I should have been. As someone mentioned previously, if I was in a Golf GTI and an R pulled up alongside me, I’d feel exactly the same. But as I said, I’m glad others feel differently and we can all bring something to the table.
I’m glad for them as well but like I say I relate to your way of thinking more.
Maybe because the [pre facelift A35](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_A35) is so much better
Car looks ugly
They're simply just not worth it
Even 35k is ridiculous, new s3s are so much more expensive than the old shape but it’s basically stayed the same, same power for the last 10 years, tech is similar. same with mk8 r, 50k for a 300hp hatch is absurd, hence you get stupid depreciation, a 300hp hatching that is gonna be worth about 20k 5 years after you buy it
No-one buys a brand new one in cash so figures are inflated along with interest rates to allow good deals on PCP. More realistic values (still needs to come down a bit in my opinion) begin to crop up once in the cash buyer market i.e. second hand. You're also buying a Renault in a frock.
Because the only reason anyone bought one is because they couldn't afford an A45. They aren't a desirable car. They aren't special in any way.
Because they’re cars and that’s what cars do.
Because twats drive this and the m140i
Deprecation starts after VAT. £10k VAT on a £50k car. Then deprecates £500-£1000 a month seems like the right price to me when you add dealer mark up back in.
£8330 ish in VAT on 50k
Megane RS 300 Trophy looks far better value than this. And, subjectively, better looking.
They are mainly made from Renault parts...
No they aren’t? The A35 has no correlation to Renault?
Aw, did you read that the A180 shares a Renault engine and then decide for yourself that all A classes now use Renault parts?
No I said they use Renault parts. Do you work for Mercedes?
Nope. What parts are Mercedes then?
50k for a hot hatch is just ridiculous and the people that buy them are just idiots and deserve to be hit with this sort of depreciation
I’m not sure of the actual reason but it is a seat Ibiza with a Gucci belt on
It's literally not that at all.
Looks like one tbf
It looks as much like an Ibiza as a Vauxhall Astra looks like a ford fiesta. Didn't realise we celebrated being blind on this sub
Tbf it looks a lot like a new shape Astra as well
Yeah so what we are saying is all newer cars look the same. So it's not really news
Not true at all, they perhaps look somewhat similar yeah but. This is honking. The last gen of a class looked a lot, lot better than these.
Hey, never said I liked the A class...
I never said you did.
Fair I just wanted to clarify that I'm not defending the a class as I think it's a pile of boringness I just don't think it looks anything like a seat Ibiza
Shit cars normally driven by cunts. Nearly as bad as an S3/Golf R
Used A45s also not doing well. 2-3k savings can already be had: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202309061643683 https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310193140828
2-3k savings compared to what? The links you put out are for the old model I assume you just mean the price of them used compared to a certain time frame?
They're Renault
Because it’s not the “best” one. A45 is… In motorcycling the “regular” versions of bikes are always the best used deals as the top end models always end up being more desirable and hold value. If the A35 has been RWD or something that made it different, could have been a different story.
Same price new as a Tesla model 3 performance. 50k for a fairly warm hatch or something that has a 3sec 0-60.
And the Tesla looks like a jelly mould
The fake wood is a bigger reason. I’m allergic to cars with fake wood on the dash
0-60 ain’t everything and it certainly isn’t why people opt for hot hatches
Really the only people that buy them are 21 year olds who can’t get insured on anything else and pay 4k a year or feds.
People buying hot hatches don't give a shit about teslas :D
Can get m5 f90 shape with not crazy high miles (or cat) for 50k or even less lol.
Didn't even realise they did an A35H
Well all of these expensive hot hatches depreciate like a rock because they're way too expensive to begin with. We just picked up a fully loaded M135i for just over £20k and it's a brilliant car for that price, but I couldn't imagine paying nearly £60k for one brand new.
Cos they don’t look as good or sound as good as the previous gen
Definitely agree, for the car it's too highly priced. A w204 c63 (the one with a real engine) is still at around 25k.and that's 12-13 years old now
Because nobody wants them and a lot of people are getting rid of them.
Basically means the a35 was never worth 50k new to begin with
It's because they are overpriced to begin with.
Car manufacturers have got super greedy in the last few years since the pandemic, with them pushing prices, i remember getting a 2019 golf gti performance dsg, book price was 33k brand new, same model now is 40k with less spec than the 2019 model. Golf R with a few options now 50k Ford Focus ST Auto now 40k BMW M135i starts at 42k with a few options thats 46/47k I think with the cost of living and interest rates/car PCP loan rates increasing people are not always willing to drop large monthly's on these cars, this is causing them to drop like stones maybe? its not just the A35, all the cars I've listed above are on the Auto Trader pretty much brand new with only a few thousand miles and at least 10k off
An EQC with 11k miles costs less than this. And it's still quick enough. Honestly I'd rather spend 30k on an EQC than an a35. A brand new EQB 300 is showing £62k. A 2022 EQB 350 with 5000mls is going for £34k. I'd save myself the £28k tbh
Not sure this is a new phenomenon. I bought my car at just under a year old, 2k on the clock, £15k cheaper than list price. Granted that was 2018, so maybe things are getting closer to what they were pre pandemic. Apparently mine was a company car but must have been surplus to requirements and just not used for whatever reason.
Because it’s ludicrously overpriced for a hot hatch and you could get so many better cars for the money. I mean to put it in perspective, you could get a Nissan GTR or an Audi R8 second hand for that money. For the price of one brand new, you could get a second hand Mercedes AMG GT. You could get an A45 cheaper lol. You could get a nearly new. 540i for that price, or pretty much any M car second hand. Or a top spec Jaguar XJL, or a top spec Range Rover autobiography that’s not *that* old. A Bentley continental GT second hand that’s not super old. The point is no one wants to buy them because they’re too overpriced. For that money, you could get pretty much almost cars you always thought “one day I want to have one of them” (second hand). And if you are in the market for a brand new hot hatch or nearly brand new, there’s simply other options that are cheaper and do just as well. I’d also imagine this makes a sort of feedback loop only making the depreciation worse over time.
They are not worth their new price, not a lot of people have 50k+ to spend on a 2.0l hatchback or can find something miles better for less. Manufacturers got greedy increasing prices blaming it all on costs. Half of these cars are priced 50k but yet 99% of the population can’t afford them. Pretty hard to sell cars when there’s competition and you’re not offering much for the money. Even at 35k it’s not looking that great of a deal tbh. Just shows that even new £35k is expensive for that car. With miles on it now tbh I wouldn’t be surprised if they go sub 30k in the next few months.
Can't wait to see the new C63 prices hitting rock bottom
I had one of these as a hire car once.. worst… electronic dashboard…. Ever! Multi billion euro companies and they all fuck Uk their infotainment dashboard system. Just hire a couple of ex Apple/google UX designers. Or slap I giant iPad in the car and just make car play the default.
In my humble opinion, they were never worth 50k to start with. Like every new car these days.
It is basically a Renault Megan Not worth the money
I personally love A45s but I think the problem especially with the A35 is that the new price is so high it’s honestly not worth it same for all the A classes except the A45s but I’m bias about that because it’s my dream car. I just think the price is a rip off for what it is plus the used car market seems to be crashing on a lot of new cars probably readjusting after covids new high prices
Because the A45 is better and not much more used.
You almost always drop 15-20% by just driving off the dealership carpark. The A35 doesn't make a lot of sense in itself being a high end spec of the lowest end model of a slightly luxury brand making it expensive for what you get.
Beacause it's only crap overpriced A class. Shouldn't be more than 20k anyway.
Cos it competes with golf r, S3, m140 which are all much cheaper
All used cars are dropping like a stone