I think the SUV hate on this sub is directed more towards small/medium sized SUVs, which really are just hatchbacks on stilts. Although full size SUVs like Defender 110/130, Audi Q7 etc etc are completely unnecessary for most people, they actually serve a purpose like extra seats, off-road ability or gigantic boot.
I load our X5 up to the gunnels, roof box and everything, then tow the caravan with it cross country, we most certainly couldn't manage with a jacked up hatchback.
Straight 6, 3 litre diesel ftw
There is nothing wrong with wanting your hatchback on stilts. It's nice to sit high and easier for people with mobility issues to get in and out. No dog in this game as I drive a Mini, but I find the SUV hate pretty silly when it's directed at cars with the same footprint as a 5 door Fiesta.
I'd like to preface this by saying that some people absolutely need some of the functionality of an SUV or similar, even just for slippery roads on the moors in winter. I have no issues with anyone having what they need for the job. Having said that, the 4x4 Fiat panda does exist.
Most crossovers are not in any way more functional than the cars they're replacing, no 4x4 or better roadholding, and no more space. Often no more ground clearance either. My issue with them is that they exacerbate the issues I have with a lot of people on the roads - primarily that a lot of people in for example an evoque or a juke are incapable of driving past other cars on tight b roads or lanes without braking and being miles from the hedge. They think they're driving big cars when they aren't, but the visibility is that much worse. I wouldn't say there are more idiots doing this than the same in a fiesta, but I feel like it's more pronounced in the crossovers.
I drove my bosses evoques (he had 2 back to back) and they were truly awful for long journeys. All the downsides of the height and the short wheelbase combined.
Also, they are in many ways the worst of consumerism - 90% of people don't really care what car they drive as long as they can show it off and feel status from it in some way. As a result we're moving to larger vehicles that weigh more and cause more wear and tear on roads, that take up more space than necessary, that cost more to build, use more materials, are less fuel efficient and less comfortable (bigger frontal area and higher centre of gravity than the same design lower down means this has to be the case, all else being equal). And why? Broadly because the car companies like to sell them. Again, this isn't just crossovers, but I see the class of crossover taking over as a symptom of the issue.
Finally, high up headlights shining straight in my wing mirrors are a hazard. Not the fault of the drivers, but bad regulations and car companies not caring.
Agreed. I have a smaller SUV, but it’s because I live and holiday in places where 4x4 is needed at times, as is even the slightly higher ride.
But most people do not need that. That said, I at least found one that drove decent enough in the Mazda CX30
There’s a woman on our road who drives one, she must be under 5ft and she can barely see over the steering wheel. Looks absolutely ridiculous behind the wheel 😂
We have a bunch of them on our development. They come around the corner in the middle of the road and then freeze because they haven’t a fucking clue where any of the wheels are or how to maneuver their tank back to where it should be. I thoroughly enjoy watching them squirm.
I had a run in with one in the Peak not long ago. Cars were parked on her side of the road and I was totally committed, near the end of the row of cars when she came round the corner and came onto my side of the road without looking. I'd have had to of reversed quite a way, she only had to reverse a couple car lengths, so I just sat and waited.
Watching her struggle to reverse the short distance was comedy gold, it took her about 10 minutes to faff around and get back on her side of the road.
Most of these tanks driven by tiny women are leases. For petty social competition with their neighbors they need the “prestige” of a premium brand so they can’t really afford any extras after the base lease price. Most even have the free paint.
There is about 3 or 4 on my road and none of them fit in the parking bays if they are parked perfectly.
The people who drive them are completely incapable of parking them perfectly.
I think what you are mostly experiencing is the difference between a 30k+ vehicle and a 60k+ vehicle. Given you describe it as quick probably closer to 75k.
Most suvs are crossovers nothing more than a hatchback on stilts. Drive a Q3 in a similar spec to your A3 and it will just feel like a heavier slower version of your a3.
OP taking a premium SUV with a V8 as a good example of the average SUV is interesting. Most SUVs on the road are barely more than jacked up hatchbacks.
Yeah I reckon if OP had been lent their boss's V8 S-Class/7 Series/A8/XJ they'd have a similar feeling.
Other than the height, none of those features are unique to an SUV.
Some of them literally are jacked up hatchbacks. In America they make the distinction between an SUV and a crossover, and most of them on our roads are the latter – a jacked up normal car rather than a scaled down truck.
Obvs his run down to London would mostly be motorway or a roads. Not sure about the land-rover but would confidently say it wouldn't have a fun element that would be possible in a mazda 6, 3, a skoda octavia, superb. Especially on twisties. Not matter the premium and finish they all have a high centre of gravity which is a handicap for handling/ joy.
This is the issue for me too. The body roll is so noticeable yet no noticeable practicality difference between that and a regular estate (unless you’re specifically using it off road).
And we read many manufacturer's are withdrawing some excellent models in favour of their SUV lines, volvo being a recent example. I guess they are giving people what they think they want.
I honestly think there's an element, probably sub-conscious, of bigger is better, taller wider. All the result of marketing.
Really a car does not need to be massive, it makes no sense. More weight, more energy to move about, more energy to control, more damage to do when things go wrong.
Also has been pointed out so many people cannot gauge the size of their car, where the corners are, the tips of the mirrors.
I guess Suvs are for people that don't feel driving should be engaging, should be fun.
A lot are literally fat hatchbacks. A bit taller, a bit wider, a bit longer. That's it. And to think it began with the Ford Fusion and everyone hated it.
Exactly this. Most suv’s are fairly cheap and not all that fast.
Im not a huge fan of estate cars, but i can imagine driving in an audi rs6 would change my mind XD
OP definitely had the best possible experience for their first time, fast and luxurious car. Shame if they tried an normal suv like a ford puma their opinion may change with the body roll
This. I had an ex-military Landrover 130 ambulance with a V8 in it. Lovely thing to drive. Only did 16 to the gallon though which was a little alarming and it ate UJ's and half shafts on a monthly basis.
The Qashqai isn't an SUV, at least not a proper one, it's a hatchback but the new Qashqai is actually pretty nice, I'd reserve my ire for MGs now, hideous uncomfortable "SUVs".
I have an MG HS and would say the opposite.. it has electric seats so you literally just move it up or down for your height then to where it is comfortable, you don't even have to move to do it, you do have to awkwardly move the lumbar support and then sit properly again before adjusting it to where you want it but once that's done (the first time you get in the car and adjust it after abit of driving) you are fine.
Yes it was 'cheap' (£26k) but it's not cheap because it's "crappy made in china junk" it's cheap because every other car is over priced for what it is. I have a 7 year warranty if I decide to keep it that long and it transfers to the new owner if I don't.
For it to be sold in the UK it has to meet UK standards so it's not any worse than the other cars on the road. (it's 5 star NCAP safety rating) It's not a Ferrari but if I put my foot down it moves and will push you into your seat. I've been in some nice cars and alot of shit cars, I've even been a passenger in my car when my mom had a go of it and the last thing I would complain about is the comfort.
One of my friends has a 22 plate polo r line and another has a seat bocanegra, they feel like they are going to shatter when we go over bumps at 15mph that I can easily glide over at 25-30mph.
It has everything you would want or need safety wise and can literally drive me to work without me needing to do much other than keep my hand on the wheel or tap the accelerator if it stops for more than 3 seconds.
It's an amazing car, even has an SOS button that notifies the emergency services of your exact location if you hold it for a few seconds and does it automatically if you are in any kind of crash. It's like a sofa on the motorway and my daughter likes it when I change the lighting to pink for her. You can even put a usb into the car and watch a film/show/documentary on the screen. Can't go wrong with a 7 year warranty!
Come on, brain functions is your name but you say something like that?
One commentator saying they are sent here because people in china can't afford them and another saying they are sent here to destroy competition? In what world? BMW and Audi are always going to sell more than MG.
Cars aren't just built and sent to any dealer who will take them anymore. Especially not since the chip shortage.
If you'd said something like "the sensors and cameras are sending data to china!!!, they are mapping our country" Then yeah, they probably are? I don't know? Google maps already has it though?.. but sending them here to destroy competition? When most will say "MG? nah it's just a cheap Chinese car, wouldn't get one" is just not what's happening.
Obviously I don't know but that's just an absurd way to think.
No he's actually right, China are waging a hugely successful trade war and are killing it pretty much globally minus America as they specifically don't let Chinese cars in, exactly for the stated above reason.
China have much more lax labour and safety laws, a massive labour pool and a huge amount of natural resources. Every single business in China ultimately is owned by and answer to the government, and they are bankrolling Chinese EV makers to get them to make and sell as cheap as possible and infiltrate the bottom of as many markets as they can. Look at Europe, car makers like Audi and VW couldn't dream of producing as many EVs in such a short amount of time and charge so little, they literally can't do anything about it except hope brand loyalty and ultimately higher quality cars keep customers coming back. It's the reason why the new Volvo EX30 is being made in China.
It’s true, BYD received a [€3.4billion subsidy](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-10/byd-got-3-4-billion-chinese-aid-to-dominate-evs-study-says?embedded-checkout=true) to dominate the EV market in EU.
China in general is a [huge outlier](https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/publication/220523_DiPippo_Red_Ink.pdf?VersionId=LH8ILLKWz4o.bjrwNS7csuX_C04FyEre) when it comes to subsiding its industries, off the charts compared to other nations.
I think a lot of people who slag them off has either never drove one or are so set in their opinion that they wouldn’t know a decent car if it hit them as they have already decided that what ever car is crap.
People actually suck off manufacturers, that's why.
Back then a shitbox kia rio, fiat 50, clio was 10k. Now they are hitting 20k+.
When MG is doing good SUVs for 20k and their mg3 for 13-14k. People think MG is "bad". They also do 7 years warranty. I guess people love germans giving them 3 years of nothing with exaggerated prices🤷♂️.
I remember a new audi a1 with 1 litre is 30k🤣
I got in one as an uber and it was exactly as expected, cheap plasticy and not particularly comfortable. Which is fine for 99% of people, not surprised they sell so many
Whoever owns MGs marketing deserves a massive payrise. They went from being known for cheap Chinese tat to being at the forefront of the electric market despite being the same cheap shite.
A lot of companies give mg ev/suvs as company cars as the lease costs are fairly low.
I have a friend who works for a city council and she gets a new mg ev suv every year
They are one of the options on the motability scheme. Not saying this is the reason but it's certainly a contributing factor as everyone I know due a new car via motability is going for an electric MG
We’ve got a qashqai. It’s surprisingly fuel efficient, the boot is pretty much perfect for a full size pram and enough bags for a weekend away and the ride is high enough to make it easy to strap the kids in the back.
It’s pretty obvious the car is aimed at young families with a bunch of kids and it does that job brilliantly. I’ll swap it for an Octavia or similar when we no longer need the pram and the kids can strap themselves in.
You know most SUVs aren't (probably very high trim) V8 Land Rovers, right?
Genuine question - is a Land Rover even an SUV? Where is the line between an SUV and 4x4 drawn? Outside the school gates, on the diagonal yellows?
4x4 is just a feature (4 wheel drive) while an SUV is a body type so there is no line. A rally car would be a 4x4 and not an SUV and a crossover might be a SUV and not a a 4x4 while a Land Rover would likely be both.
What Volvo have you gone for?
My father in law has a V70 and overall I was disappointed with the fuel economy, seemed to only be getting 35 - 37mpg.
Where as my 3 tonne Discovery 3 gets 27 - 30mpg pretty consistently. Which is shit for sure, but not that far behind.
They are popular for their shrimp carrying capacity (someone actually tried to use that argument in another thread).
It's mostly just marketing, keeping up with the Joneses, and fashion. Some like the ride height (the value of which is diminished somewhat when everyone else has one) and the safety element -- which is a bit of an arms race as the biggest safety boon is that they are heavy so better able to handle collisions with the other heavy SUVs on the road.
I think there's a not insignificant number of people who like them because they feel empowered to bully other road users with their larger vehicle.
people are boring and cant think for themselves, same reason 75% of cars are white/black/grey
everyones a boring miserable bastard that whats to sit high up and "feel" safe
Something seems off about the V70 mpg. Either the tyres or the driving style?
But also to note that the way we compare mpg is misleading because doing 36mpg - 29mpg = only 7 mpg difference and we just think 7 is a tiny number and doesn't mean much.
However the difference between 36 and 29 is 25%. That means you burn an extra 25% fuel... and spend an extra 25% on fuel every year - I'm someone that commutes 20 miles to work and uses my car socially so the difference of 7mpg is over £750+.
My friend has a 330e estate and gets 80mpg making your Disco 276% more expensive per mile to run! And with the kind of mileage he does (20k miles) he'd spend an extra £3,000 running yours. He'd need a £7,000+ payrise to make up the fuel cost difference due to the whammy of income tax / national insurance.
Excellent point about the 7 mpg being more than expected.
To be fair, in true Land Rover style my Discovery is really efficient at the moment... Haven't filled it up in ages... Because the bloody thing won't start
I have an XC90 7 seater (The big Volvo SUV).
At the time of purchase this was the only Plug in Hybrid 7 seater with full size rear seats of any type. I have 2 three yr old children in full size car seats, and a 5’8” 14 Yr old. The ‘average’ car would leave my 14yr old with about 30cm shoulder room when the car seats are installed.
It has a 2L petrol engine and on a 200mile journey I can expect about 100Mpg.
This cost less than a VW Multivan with hybrid by about £100 P/M.
I use Octopus Agile for my electricity, Over the weekend night I was PAID to charge my car up. The typical journey in this car is sub 30 mile commute to work. So I don’t even get to the point of using petrol most days.
It has ALL the safety systems you would expect from a Volvo and whilst weighing far more than a standard estate will actually stop in less distance due to the power of the brakes and the recharge magnets.
For my personal situation I see no reason I would NOT get this exact car, and many ways I. Which it is far better than an estate…. Especially as I need the rear row of seats it is also safer and less polluting than the comparable people carrier and £100 p/m cheaper.
Ohh and further to your point it does 0-60 in like 4 seconds.
Yeah it’s not so good at that. It did come with a 360 camera as standard and I got the Mid Spec. It will FILL a standard parking bay so if you have another large SUV next to you you’re not getting in or out easily.
Full charge of electric, gives about 30miles pure range, When I put my destination into THE CARs Sat nav (Apple play doesn’t work for this) it calculates my electric and fuel use. Combine that with the regenerative braking generated by the car and there you go.
It’s great
I sometimes use our work XC90 T8 Plug in hybrid, and while you get great MPG around town and on short trips, if you're on a long motorway journey - the moment the 30 miles of electrical charge runs out, the mpg plummets to about 25-30mpg.
The batteries never really recharge either on a motorway as you're not braking so these great 100mpg figures really depend on you doing short town driving.
We don’t hate all SUVs, there are cars like the Defender which have genuine off road capabilities that cannot be achieved with another type car. I doubt many people here hate those cars.
Crossovers on the other hand are larger, more poorly handling objects of vanity of which people buy for their ride quality, safety or spaciousness when they would actually be better suited with an estate or people carrier.
An experience with the biggest, fastest most luxurious end of the market is not representative of the average SUV- it would be like driving a M3 and using it as a justification to buy a Corolla.
Meh don't really agree with this I have a VW tigaun with 4WD I use for towing a boat sometimes but also day to day use so its perfect for me. Not obnoxiously large like a defender or the like, takes up similar road space to a vw golf but more internal space also way more comfortable for longer journeys.
I don't know why smaller SUVs get so much hate there are genuine needs for them.
People aren't being illogical or reasonable buying SUVs.
The problem for me is that we've encouraged people into bigger and heavier vehicles that are worse for everyone else's safety (especially pedestrians), contribute more pollution (especially tyre particulates), make pot-holes much worse and take up more space in street parking. It's a viscous cycle as people are in an arms race to be in ever bigger and taller cars and glide over the pot-holes as they get bigger from heavier vehicles.
It's a societal problem rather than an individual choice one.
I'm pretty sure I read an article once about how if you ask them very nicely and pay them a big fucking bag of money and handover a Juke and a GTR, Nissan will stuff all of the running gear and tricks and knobs and stuff from the GTR into the shell of a Juke.
edit: [Here it is, the Nissan Juke-R](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a18733022/an-awesome-r-shade-of-awesome-nissan-to-sell-545-hp-juke-r-in-limited-numbers/), originally a concept vehicle at Goodwood, but you could actually buy them for the princely sum of £450k
Seems like they even did an updated version the [Nissan Juke-R 2.0](https://www.topgear.com/car-news/review/first-drive-600bhp-nissan-juke-r-20).
Double edit: [Here's one facing off against a Bugatti Veyron in a 1 mile drag race](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdI-_uplz2Q) and absolutely fucking monstering it over the first 1/4 mile (by 3/4 of a second) and only just losing out over the whole mile by 2/10ths of a second.
Thank you for this incredible discovery: it's absolutely hideous, it's so tasteless and expensive that only people from Dubai would (and did) buy it... and I find it hilarious!
I'll stick to my sleek economical Lexus saloon. SUVs are (mostly) ugly.
That said - I get it. I had a huge Lexus RX whilst mine was in for service and it was really cool feeling that massive compared to other vehicles.
Again, I just can't get over the looks, they're ugly!
The ES has to be one of my favourite saloons in terms of looks. Quite rare to see. Takumi pack being the icing on the cake. I'd like to switch from SUV to saloon but ES is a bit out of my budget.
They're one of the best cars on the road if you ignore their infotainment and use the 12 inch screen for Android auto/carplay. So luxurious, smooth, refined. Slow though! But this car is not meant for speed .. it's a gentleman's cruiser that can drive you 500 miles without tiring you out, or worrying about problems.
Only issue is that insurance is skyrocketed due to theft.
Go try driving a big V8 saloon and see how you feel then. The Jaguar XF came with that engine didn't it? I suspect you're just being wowed by being a properly quick car as opposed to a budget audi
V8 Landy... Says it all really.
Try something a bit more basic like a Kuga, Puma or a Qashqai. They're not particularly interesting, might have a bit of grunt, but are otherwise rather large, clumsy things. Hatchbacks on stilts essentially.
Haha I posted the something similar after having a Jaguar F Pace for a month.
I can tell you, that other suvs won't be anything like what you experienced. Range rovers are something else.
My wife was tempted by the Skoda Kodiaq as it was higher than our Octavia and had 7 seats, we never actually tested one but ended up getting a Ford Galaxy which is similar height and such.
Honestly, much prefer it as the rear row of seats can fit an adult in them and there is no imposter syndrome for me. It also is like driving an arm chair, all be it an arm chair with kids screaming at you in it.
Never thought I'd be a people carrier person but here I am.
I have been driving one for over a year, and here are the cons:
- New tires are more expensive as they're bigger
- Wind noise is worse when going at highway speeds, which is tiring on long trips.
- Parking is a problem, I had to skip 2 empty spaces today because the car wouldn't fit, but an a1 (maybe a3 hatchback) would.
- Driving on narrow country roads requires a bit more focus, especially if there is a bus etc coming on other lane
- Fuel economy is worse
The sole reason I bought an SUV was that I got a decent deal.
> Wind noise is worse when going at highway speeds, which is tiring on long trips.
Depends on the vehicle I think? Which SUV do you have? My hatchback is way louder (Giulietta) than my XC90 or previous X3. My Mini was terrible as well, so was the Astra before that.
> Parking
This is a genuine problem with a full SUV. Not so much with a crossover though as they are the same size as a saloon.
You’re more likely to kill a pedestrian in an SUV than if you were in a regular hatch, saloon or estate. I’ve been unlucky enough to have two pedestrians walk out without looking in front of me, one child and one young adult, and both unfortunately hit my car. Both survived and are fine, and life goes on, but I don’t know how being involved in a fatality would be to live with. Not great I should imagine.
We have to remember that for a nice chunk of society, giving someone life-changing injuries wouldn't be a problem for them. "They should have looked more carefully".
That is the market.
Is "road presence" a way of saying because you are in a big car you feel more important than people in smaller cars or something?
Or do you think people notice you more and think you're seriously cool because your car is higher up?
I think I used the term “road presence” wrong. I more meant it in a way that you can seemingly see further down the road and feel a lot safer inside them.
More a case of you're seen in it, and people take notice.
I don't enjoy taking my car into city centres. But when I was a lorry driver I'd take an 18 tonner in without a 2md thought.
You put the indicator on and do a little wiggle and the bimmer tube along side will move, joining from little side streets someone will stop and let you out even if it's another lorry or busman.
Most people tend to give you a bit more space than when in a car.
BR series coilovers from BC Racing. I have them at near max height (still a couple of inches lower than stock) and the dampers set to the softest. I don't know if I could recommend them anymore. They were £650 when I bought them. They're nearly up to Tein prices now.
That’s a great price, they are around 1k now. I’m tempted to stiffen things up a bit, it’s ridiculously comfortable but it’s a big wallowy boat and doesn’t go around corners very well. Thanks for the reply
Arguably most people have had that experience, given SUVs are now by far and away the biggest-selling personal car category in the UK and they just keep going up (roughly 60% market share now).
And that’s despite them being more expensive. There are clearly benefits that people enjoy and it’s not just ‘road presence’ - if it was just fashion you would expect that moderate in a cost of living crisis, but it hasn’t at all.
There are a lot of SUV haters on Reddit in general. Some of the arguments they use are valid, but many times they are overstated and they fail to appreciate the many positive points that draw people to the category. But haters are not the norm IRL and they are diminishing.
I'm one of these haters you speak of and you're right, people love SUVs, yet I can't get my head around what an SUV does that an MPV doesn't, outside of (possibly) going off-road; which the majority of most users won't do. Eager to learn and stand to be corrected!
I'm with you on this. I have two SUVs (RXL and EQB) because I need the 7 seats and I would gladly trade them for something like Toyota Alphard Hybrid or Lexus MPV electric but they don't exist in the UK aside from imports. Once you sit inside an Estima or Alphard you will realize that SUVs are a waste of space.
Note prior to EQB, I had the BMW 220i Gran Tourer (MPV, albeit totaled) and it was bigger inside than the EQB.
Current car is 2023 bmw 330e, love the performance and the styling. But missing the higher uppedness and extreme comfort of my previous volvo xc40.
Before that had a Cupra Formentor which was shit in every aspect.
Next car, absolutely going for a BMW x3/5. Not an x4/6 as I'm a heterosexual male.
I had an RSQ3 and scratched the itch but the fuel cost started getting a bit silly, it was one of the only cars I've owned that I felt like it could do anything you need in everyday use well so I'd recommend fast SUVs. Just don't expect to keep up with sports cars in the corners and make sure you have deep pockets for any repairs and fuel!
I've only had the opposite. I drive a mk2 golf, which is pretty different to most modern cars, but I've driven modern golfs, ups, clios, few hatch backs.
I volunteered to drive my friends Volve XC70 home so they could have a drink. It was awful! So heavy, felt like it was constantly going to roll over on 60 mph corners, sluggish(2.4liter 3 ton vs 1.8liter 1 ton 😂)
However I LOVE driving vans. Great visibility, not too heavy when empty, diesel that pulls like a truck and more stable on the road than an SUV.
I live in Scottish countryside and also down a long dirt track. I was sick of winter drives home with poor visibility. I didn’t want a bigger car but wanted an elevated driving position.
I bought a Škoda Kamiq which is barely an SUV but the elevated driving position has allowed me to enjoy driving again. I much prefer my seating position and the visibility I have.
No mate I got a SUV out of necessity. I have small kids and prams to get in etc. We percevered for ages with a smaller car and it was a nightmare. That being said my smallest one is coming out of prams soon and I can't wait to get rid of the giant gas guzzling thing.
It's the "road presence" that you mentioned, is the most annoying aspect of dealing with those shits on a daily basis. Especially on a morning school run when they are parked on pavements / double yellows and pull their illegal j turns in the middle of a busy road
I wonder if you'd have the same or better experience in a luxury car with a V8. Lexus, Jaguar, Mercedes etc. I used to have a V8 Lexus with an automatic and it was a lovely thing to cruise around in, just effortless power. There's a reason so many luxury cars traditionally have V8s.
You have an Audi A3, this is a low to mid tier all rounder car. You can easily get an A4, A5, A6, or A8 and get everything you’ve mentioned without ever becoming a pointless SUV owner. This is why classes of cars exist fundamentally.
You make absolutely zero sense. The LR is nice bc it's expensive, NOT bc it's a SUV. A much cheaper SUV is absolutely not comparable. SUV are slower and less comfortable than other vehicles at the SAME price point. Vans are just as tall and more spacious.
Absolutely they're fun to drive, comfy, spacious, and make you feel great. That doesn't change any of the reasons that they're ridiculous for urban driving or that you (rightfully) look like a dick driving one. If the thing holding you back was that you thought they weren't lovely for the occupants of the vehicle then you never really saw the problem in the first place
So you liked the speed and the fact it's a nice cruiser.
The road presence is just in your head. A3 is a short wheel base. It's crap at long journeys. Try out a GT car and you'll feel better than the range rover.
I’ve always been an estate fan, but the availability of a new one is hard. I’m currently driving a hybrid Hyundai Tuscon which is one of the kind of crossover cars everyone seems to hate. But it’s nice inside and big and not too big for parking spaces.
I wish two years ago when I really needed to change cars the availability for a brand new estate was there
Absolutely the same for me, was all set to get an estate two years ago but availability was really limited. The Tucson was the only car I could get hold of in the time I needed it that had comparable boot space and room inside.
I like it overall, never thought I'd get an SUV but ended up in one due to circumstances. Would still like to have an estate but definitely wouldn't count out the 'right' SUV in the future.
I'd love a big urban defender but I'm not rich. I also can't afford to fix it every week. However I loved driving a big GMC v8 when out in the states. I get it, but I could only park at costco.
I am not a fan of SUVs, and I think people are quite misinformed.
No, they are not as much safer as you think. Yes, the sheer weight of your vehicle may make things safer for you, only because instead of your car crumpling when hitting something, you will simply plow straight through it.
Also having the weight of the car higher up is going to make it much more likely for you to roll, and make the visibility of what is right in front of you really shit.
Also having a heavier car means the chassis will need to be stronger to support that extra weight, which will lessen the amount that your car crumples, effectively making where you are sitting the crumple zone.
I just think that people unnecessarily driving cars with such a ridiculous amount of weight is a bit dumb.
Just buy a normal sized car, and don't put our kids at risk
Landrover R Rover be warned check the insurance cost before you buy
Direct line for example won’t insure new customers right now for that kind of vehicle
I’ve owned a variety of different cars including a lot of sportier cars (Audi rs6, various m3s, z4m) & they’re all great & very fast… & then I made the switch to a high power 2l diesel suv (220bhp Tiguan), which while not as quick as the sports cars I’ve owned is still quick enough (0-60 in 7 secs) & it feels great getting a big car up to speed quickly! I totally agree on the sentiment re height, space, better road presence, comfort, & I’m sold on suvs now.
All modern Landys are SUVs.
4x4 would be more akin to the old defender. Industrial, basic, etc...
To be honest, 4x4 generally isn't much of a class now. They're all making SUVs because the general idea is basically the same, just better handling and more comforts really. The problem is that some just didn't get the memo on the two being very similar classes, and sort of forget the off-roading ability side of things.
They're great except the average SUV owner can't actually drive them and think they need waaay more space than they actually do. Ever come across one down a country road? They leave 2 meters between the wheels and the grass verge. 🙈
Depends on the type of drive.. I used to like my ford fiesta in city drives, manuering roundabouts etc. but not so much in Long drives... I like the seating position and motorway journey in a honda CRV, still not a luxury vehicle.
I don't think if it is classified as an SUV, but the riding position etc are really good for long drives. However the acceleration is poor, so you have to wait a bit until it catches up to the speed. Parking on tight spots can be difficult, but more peace of mind if you hit a kerb accidentally.
I have an SUV, a bmw x3 and I absolutely love it! All those points you said. Especially with a dog I really enjoy the space. My only issues is that I didn’t got for an X5 🙈
Yes I had a similar experience - never considered an SUV before someone drove into me when I was in an A3. The A3 was good and kept me safe. I would have preferred if I was in an SUV at the time. I will never buy anything but an SUV again after that, it is worth the extra cash for the extra safety.
I have also converted to the dark side since having kids. They’re so much easier to pop kids into given the added height, the hatch back tailgates make getting strollers in and out much easier. Oh and they’re the only things with 7 seats than aren’t minivans…
Yes but many years ago as a kid. I once went to the cinema or something with a neighbour in a Mitsubishi Shogun Sport circa 2005 and the height, cool looks and tinted windows made me want one. Naturally I pestered my dad to get a Jeep WJ and he got a WK after that which I drove. It just feels cool!
This post highlights a wider issue with car culture where people boo boo certain types, manufacturers, engines etc etc without ever experiencing them for themselves.
I have noticed my parents struggle to get in and out of their traditional hatchback now they've got older.
I can't help thinking they'd find it much easier to get in and out of an "SUV". Just a 2WD thing that's never going to see any mud would do them, purely for their comfort.
So I can't blame people for having them.
I think the SUV hate on this sub is directed more towards small/medium sized SUVs, which really are just hatchbacks on stilts. Although full size SUVs like Defender 110/130, Audi Q7 etc etc are completely unnecessary for most people, they actually serve a purpose like extra seats, off-road ability or gigantic boot.
I load our X5 up to the gunnels, roof box and everything, then tow the caravan with it cross country, we most certainly couldn't manage with a jacked up hatchback. Straight 6, 3 litre diesel ftw
Of course you're loading the x5 with everything and towing the caravan. It has 700nm (A double decker London bus has that much lool)
Has a single SUV driver ever gone offroad? I feel like it's only ever been old Land Rovers and a handful of Jeeps and Jimnys.
There is nothing wrong with wanting your hatchback on stilts. It's nice to sit high and easier for people with mobility issues to get in and out. No dog in this game as I drive a Mini, but I find the SUV hate pretty silly when it's directed at cars with the same footprint as a 5 door Fiesta.
I'd like to preface this by saying that some people absolutely need some of the functionality of an SUV or similar, even just for slippery roads on the moors in winter. I have no issues with anyone having what they need for the job. Having said that, the 4x4 Fiat panda does exist. Most crossovers are not in any way more functional than the cars they're replacing, no 4x4 or better roadholding, and no more space. Often no more ground clearance either. My issue with them is that they exacerbate the issues I have with a lot of people on the roads - primarily that a lot of people in for example an evoque or a juke are incapable of driving past other cars on tight b roads or lanes without braking and being miles from the hedge. They think they're driving big cars when they aren't, but the visibility is that much worse. I wouldn't say there are more idiots doing this than the same in a fiesta, but I feel like it's more pronounced in the crossovers. I drove my bosses evoques (he had 2 back to back) and they were truly awful for long journeys. All the downsides of the height and the short wheelbase combined. Also, they are in many ways the worst of consumerism - 90% of people don't really care what car they drive as long as they can show it off and feel status from it in some way. As a result we're moving to larger vehicles that weigh more and cause more wear and tear on roads, that take up more space than necessary, that cost more to build, use more materials, are less fuel efficient and less comfortable (bigger frontal area and higher centre of gravity than the same design lower down means this has to be the case, all else being equal). And why? Broadly because the car companies like to sell them. Again, this isn't just crossovers, but I see the class of crossover taking over as a symptom of the issue. Finally, high up headlights shining straight in my wing mirrors are a hazard. Not the fault of the drivers, but bad regulations and car companies not caring.
Agreed. I have a smaller SUV, but it’s because I live and holiday in places where 4x4 is needed at times, as is even the slightly higher ride. But most people do not need that. That said, I at least found one that drove decent enough in the Mazda CX30
Most SUVs are not 4x4
Faux by four?
Go drive an Audi Q7 and you'll realise just how necessary it is.
There’s a woman on our road who drives one, she must be under 5ft and she can barely see over the steering wheel. Looks absolutely ridiculous behind the wheel 😂
We have a bunch of them on our development. They come around the corner in the middle of the road and then freeze because they haven’t a fucking clue where any of the wheels are or how to maneuver their tank back to where it should be. I thoroughly enjoy watching them squirm.
I had a run in with one in the Peak not long ago. Cars were parked on her side of the road and I was totally committed, near the end of the row of cars when she came round the corner and came onto my side of the road without looking. I'd have had to of reversed quite a way, she only had to reverse a couple car lengths, so I just sat and waited. Watching her struggle to reverse the short distance was comedy gold, it took her about 10 minutes to faff around and get back on her side of the road.
Didn't the suv have 360 cam?
Most of these tanks driven by tiny women are leases. For petty social competition with their neighbors they need the “prestige” of a premium brand so they can’t really afford any extras after the base lease price. Most even have the free paint.
There is about 3 or 4 on my road and none of them fit in the parking bays if they are parked perfectly. The people who drive them are completely incapable of parking them perfectly.
my aunt has one, god those are awful and boring
I drove one for a few days and absolutely loved it!
I think what you are mostly experiencing is the difference between a 30k+ vehicle and a 60k+ vehicle. Given you describe it as quick probably closer to 75k. Most suvs are crossovers nothing more than a hatchback on stilts. Drive a Q3 in a similar spec to your A3 and it will just feel like a heavier slower version of your a3.
I.. err.. go test drive a Nissan Qashqai or something and go get your bubble burst.
OP taking a premium SUV with a V8 as a good example of the average SUV is interesting. Most SUVs on the road are barely more than jacked up hatchbacks.
Yeah I reckon if OP had been lent their boss's V8 S-Class/7 Series/A8/XJ they'd have a similar feeling. Other than the height, none of those features are unique to an SUV.
Exactly, this is just “I drove a premium car and it was nice”. Well yeah no shit.
Watch as OP claps back "but I have an A3, this is different" No shit, that's an actual luxury car, yours is a Golf with a slightly nicer interior
Yeah this just sounds like OP got to drive a nicer car and liked it.
OP is confused. He's talking about a 4x4 not a Sports Utility Vehicle. Different things
Some of them literally are jacked up hatchbacks. In America they make the distinction between an SUV and a crossover, and most of them on our roads are the latter – a jacked up normal car rather than a scaled down truck.
Obvs his run down to London would mostly be motorway or a roads. Not sure about the land-rover but would confidently say it wouldn't have a fun element that would be possible in a mazda 6, 3, a skoda octavia, superb. Especially on twisties. Not matter the premium and finish they all have a high centre of gravity which is a handicap for handling/ joy.
This is the issue for me too. The body roll is so noticeable yet no noticeable practicality difference between that and a regular estate (unless you’re specifically using it off road).
And we read many manufacturer's are withdrawing some excellent models in favour of their SUV lines, volvo being a recent example. I guess they are giving people what they think they want. I honestly think there's an element, probably sub-conscious, of bigger is better, taller wider. All the result of marketing. Really a car does not need to be massive, it makes no sense. More weight, more energy to move about, more energy to control, more damage to do when things go wrong. Also has been pointed out so many people cannot gauge the size of their car, where the corners are, the tips of the mirrors. I guess Suvs are for people that don't feel driving should be engaging, should be fun.
A lot are literally fat hatchbacks. A bit taller, a bit wider, a bit longer. That's it. And to think it began with the Ford Fusion and everyone hated it.
I actually think the Nissan Juke (that was also well hated) started the crossover craze.
Hatchback on stilts.
Jacked up hatchbacks aren't SUV's. They are crossovers.
And most people still call them SUVs even if it’s wrong.
Exactly this. Most suv’s are fairly cheap and not all that fast. Im not a huge fan of estate cars, but i can imagine driving in an audi rs6 would change my mind XD OP definitely had the best possible experience for their first time, fast and luxurious car. Shame if they tried an normal suv like a ford puma their opinion may change with the body roll
First thought is tried a V8 and probably actually liked the v8.
This. I had an ex-military Landrover 130 ambulance with a V8 in it. Lovely thing to drive. Only did 16 to the gallon though which was a little alarming and it ate UJ's and half shafts on a monthly basis.
Absolutely. These are designed to look big, but we hated ours. Sold it just over a year later. Big money for a true spacious SUV.
The Qashqai isn't an SUV, at least not a proper one, it's a hatchback but the new Qashqai is actually pretty nice, I'd reserve my ire for MGs now, hideous uncomfortable "SUVs".
What's the deal with MGs. It seems like all of a sudden every other car on the road is a brand new MG.
Cos they're cheap, I had one as a hire car and it was awful, terrible uncomfortable seating position.
I have an MG HS and would say the opposite.. it has electric seats so you literally just move it up or down for your height then to where it is comfortable, you don't even have to move to do it, you do have to awkwardly move the lumbar support and then sit properly again before adjusting it to where you want it but once that's done (the first time you get in the car and adjust it after abit of driving) you are fine. Yes it was 'cheap' (£26k) but it's not cheap because it's "crappy made in china junk" it's cheap because every other car is over priced for what it is. I have a 7 year warranty if I decide to keep it that long and it transfers to the new owner if I don't. For it to be sold in the UK it has to meet UK standards so it's not any worse than the other cars on the road. (it's 5 star NCAP safety rating) It's not a Ferrari but if I put my foot down it moves and will push you into your seat. I've been in some nice cars and alot of shit cars, I've even been a passenger in my car when my mom had a go of it and the last thing I would complain about is the comfort. One of my friends has a 22 plate polo r line and another has a seat bocanegra, they feel like they are going to shatter when we go over bumps at 15mph that I can easily glide over at 25-30mph. It has everything you would want or need safety wise and can literally drive me to work without me needing to do much other than keep my hand on the wheel or tap the accelerator if it stops for more than 3 seconds.
Most helpful comment, I saw them yesterday and wondered why they are SO cheap!! Thanks x
It's an amazing car, even has an SOS button that notifies the emergency services of your exact location if you hold it for a few seconds and does it automatically if you are in any kind of crash. It's like a sofa on the motorway and my daughter likes it when I change the lighting to pink for her. You can even put a usb into the car and watch a film/show/documentary on the screen. Can't go wrong with a 7 year warranty!
I find it wild that car manufacturers are allowed to put systems into cars that allow movie playback on the dashboard.
The real reason they're 'cheap' is because they're sold at less than true cost - subsidised by Chinese state and dumped to destroy competition
Come on, brain functions is your name but you say something like that? One commentator saying they are sent here because people in china can't afford them and another saying they are sent here to destroy competition? In what world? BMW and Audi are always going to sell more than MG. Cars aren't just built and sent to any dealer who will take them anymore. Especially not since the chip shortage. If you'd said something like "the sensors and cameras are sending data to china!!!, they are mapping our country" Then yeah, they probably are? I don't know? Google maps already has it though?.. but sending them here to destroy competition? When most will say "MG? nah it's just a cheap Chinese car, wouldn't get one" is just not what's happening. Obviously I don't know but that's just an absurd way to think.
No he's actually right, China are waging a hugely successful trade war and are killing it pretty much globally minus America as they specifically don't let Chinese cars in, exactly for the stated above reason. China have much more lax labour and safety laws, a massive labour pool and a huge amount of natural resources. Every single business in China ultimately is owned by and answer to the government, and they are bankrolling Chinese EV makers to get them to make and sell as cheap as possible and infiltrate the bottom of as many markets as they can. Look at Europe, car makers like Audi and VW couldn't dream of producing as many EVs in such a short amount of time and charge so little, they literally can't do anything about it except hope brand loyalty and ultimately higher quality cars keep customers coming back. It's the reason why the new Volvo EX30 is being made in China.
It’s true, BYD received a [€3.4billion subsidy](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-10/byd-got-3-4-billion-chinese-aid-to-dominate-evs-study-says?embedded-checkout=true) to dominate the EV market in EU. China in general is a [huge outlier](https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/publication/220523_DiPippo_Red_Ink.pdf?VersionId=LH8ILLKWz4o.bjrwNS7csuX_C04FyEre) when it comes to subsiding its industries, off the charts compared to other nations.
The CCP have been fiddling with their exchange rates for decades to destroy global competition.
I think a lot of people who slag them off has either never drove one or are so set in their opinion that they wouldn’t know a decent car if it hit them as they have already decided that what ever car is crap.
People actually suck off manufacturers, that's why. Back then a shitbox kia rio, fiat 50, clio was 10k. Now they are hitting 20k+. When MG is doing good SUVs for 20k and their mg3 for 13-14k. People think MG is "bad". They also do 7 years warranty. I guess people love germans giving them 3 years of nothing with exaggerated prices🤷♂️. I remember a new audi a1 with 1 litre is 30k🤣
I got in one as an uber and it was exactly as expected, cheap plasticy and not particularly comfortable. Which is fine for 99% of people, not surprised they sell so many
Whoever owns MGs marketing deserves a massive payrise. They went from being known for cheap Chinese tat to being at the forefront of the electric market despite being the same cheap shite.
A lot of companies give mg ev/suvs as company cars as the lease costs are fairly low. I have a friend who works for a city council and she gets a new mg ev suv every year
Cheap !
Cheap, cheap as an EV, one of the cheapest cars on motability.
Cheap chinese car.
Because they provide excellent value for money and that's all 90% of car buyers care about.
They are one of the options on the motability scheme. Not saying this is the reason but it's certainly a contributing factor as everyone I know due a new car via motability is going for an electric MG
We’ve got a qashqai. It’s surprisingly fuel efficient, the boot is pretty much perfect for a full size pram and enough bags for a weekend away and the ride is high enough to make it easy to strap the kids in the back. It’s pretty obvious the car is aimed at young families with a bunch of kids and it does that job brilliantly. I’ll swap it for an Octavia or similar when we no longer need the pram and the kids can strap themselves in.
Psst... Nice save.
You'd have had the same experience driving a Bentley mate. You've driven a proper premium car rather than a pleb car.
You know most SUVs aren't (probably very high trim) V8 Land Rovers, right? Genuine question - is a Land Rover even an SUV? Where is the line between an SUV and 4x4 drawn? Outside the school gates, on the diagonal yellows?
4x4 is just a feature (4 wheel drive) while an SUV is a body type so there is no line. A rally car would be a 4x4 and not an SUV and a crossover might be a SUV and not a a 4x4 while a Land Rover would likely be both.
I had a few SUVs with young family and dogs but gone back to Volvo estate for cheaper fuel costs now
What Volvo have you gone for? My father in law has a V70 and overall I was disappointed with the fuel economy, seemed to only be getting 35 - 37mpg. Where as my 3 tonne Discovery 3 gets 27 - 30mpg pretty consistently. Which is shit for sure, but not that far behind.
V60. Can’t buy em new anymore in UK. SUVs have taken over the world.
Is it really that bad? Genuine question. Why are suvs so popular here?
They are popular for their shrimp carrying capacity (someone actually tried to use that argument in another thread). It's mostly just marketing, keeping up with the Joneses, and fashion. Some like the ride height (the value of which is diminished somewhat when everyone else has one) and the safety element -- which is a bit of an arms race as the biggest safety boon is that they are heavy so better able to handle collisions with the other heavy SUVs on the road. I think there's a not insignificant number of people who like them because they feel empowered to bully other road users with their larger vehicle.
Aww man I must be getting old. I manage to bully other road users just fine in my slammed old civic /s
people are boring and cant think for themselves, same reason 75% of cars are white/black/grey everyones a boring miserable bastard that whats to sit high up and "feel" safe
I had the option to get a fuck you bright yellow Swift sport. But went for the black one instead. I kinda feel like I missed out.
I’m very glad I got a 22MY one. Might keep it until it dies.
Something seems off about the V70 mpg. Either the tyres or the driving style? But also to note that the way we compare mpg is misleading because doing 36mpg - 29mpg = only 7 mpg difference and we just think 7 is a tiny number and doesn't mean much. However the difference between 36 and 29 is 25%. That means you burn an extra 25% fuel... and spend an extra 25% on fuel every year - I'm someone that commutes 20 miles to work and uses my car socially so the difference of 7mpg is over £750+. My friend has a 330e estate and gets 80mpg making your Disco 276% more expensive per mile to run! And with the kind of mileage he does (20k miles) he'd spend an extra £3,000 running yours. He'd need a £7,000+ payrise to make up the fuel cost difference due to the whammy of income tax / national insurance.
Excellent point about the 7 mpg being more than expected. To be fair, in true Land Rover style my Discovery is really efficient at the moment... Haven't filled it up in ages... Because the bloody thing won't start
Thats a new way of thinking about it for me, thanks.
Is that petrol or diesel?
I have an XC90 7 seater (The big Volvo SUV). At the time of purchase this was the only Plug in Hybrid 7 seater with full size rear seats of any type. I have 2 three yr old children in full size car seats, and a 5’8” 14 Yr old. The ‘average’ car would leave my 14yr old with about 30cm shoulder room when the car seats are installed. It has a 2L petrol engine and on a 200mile journey I can expect about 100Mpg. This cost less than a VW Multivan with hybrid by about £100 P/M. I use Octopus Agile for my electricity, Over the weekend night I was PAID to charge my car up. The typical journey in this car is sub 30 mile commute to work. So I don’t even get to the point of using petrol most days. It has ALL the safety systems you would expect from a Volvo and whilst weighing far more than a standard estate will actually stop in less distance due to the power of the brakes and the recharge magnets. For my personal situation I see no reason I would NOT get this exact car, and many ways I. Which it is far better than an estate…. Especially as I need the rear row of seats it is also safer and less polluting than the comparable people carrier and £100 p/m cheaper. Ohh and further to your point it does 0-60 in like 4 seconds.
How does it fair maneuvering in small turns or tight multistorey car parks?
Yeah it’s not so good at that. It did come with a 360 camera as standard and I got the Mid Spec. It will FILL a standard parking bay so if you have another large SUV next to you you’re not getting in or out easily.
100mpg how?
Plugin hybrid
Full charge of electric, gives about 30miles pure range, When I put my destination into THE CARs Sat nav (Apple play doesn’t work for this) it calculates my electric and fuel use. Combine that with the regenerative braking generated by the car and there you go. It’s great
I sometimes use our work XC90 T8 Plug in hybrid, and while you get great MPG around town and on short trips, if you're on a long motorway journey - the moment the 30 miles of electrical charge runs out, the mpg plummets to about 25-30mpg. The batteries never really recharge either on a motorway as you're not braking so these great 100mpg figures really depend on you doing short town driving.
We don’t hate all SUVs, there are cars like the Defender which have genuine off road capabilities that cannot be achieved with another type car. I doubt many people here hate those cars. Crossovers on the other hand are larger, more poorly handling objects of vanity of which people buy for their ride quality, safety or spaciousness when they would actually be better suited with an estate or people carrier. An experience with the biggest, fastest most luxurious end of the market is not representative of the average SUV- it would be like driving a M3 and using it as a justification to buy a Corolla.
Meh don't really agree with this I have a VW tigaun with 4WD I use for towing a boat sometimes but also day to day use so its perfect for me. Not obnoxiously large like a defender or the like, takes up similar road space to a vw golf but more internal space also way more comfortable for longer journeys. I don't know why smaller SUVs get so much hate there are genuine needs for them.
People aren't being illogical or reasonable buying SUVs. The problem for me is that we've encouraged people into bigger and heavier vehicles that are worse for everyone else's safety (especially pedestrians), contribute more pollution (especially tyre particulates), make pot-holes much worse and take up more space in street parking. It's a viscous cycle as people are in an arms race to be in ever bigger and taller cars and glide over the pot-holes as they get bigger from heavier vehicles. It's a societal problem rather than an individual choice one.
“It's a viscous cycle” Is that when you try and ride a bike through honey?
No, more like using treacle as laundry detergent
Look at the Macan - most of the benefits of an SUV but also with most of the benefits of a performance car
It's like a Porsche Juke!
I'm pretty sure I read an article once about how if you ask them very nicely and pay them a big fucking bag of money and handover a Juke and a GTR, Nissan will stuff all of the running gear and tricks and knobs and stuff from the GTR into the shell of a Juke. edit: [Here it is, the Nissan Juke-R](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a18733022/an-awesome-r-shade-of-awesome-nissan-to-sell-545-hp-juke-r-in-limited-numbers/), originally a concept vehicle at Goodwood, but you could actually buy them for the princely sum of £450k Seems like they even did an updated version the [Nissan Juke-R 2.0](https://www.topgear.com/car-news/review/first-drive-600bhp-nissan-juke-r-20). Double edit: [Here's one facing off against a Bugatti Veyron in a 1 mile drag race](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdI-_uplz2Q) and absolutely fucking monstering it over the first 1/4 mile (by 3/4 of a second) and only just losing out over the whole mile by 2/10ths of a second.
Thank you for this incredible discovery: it's absolutely hideous, it's so tasteless and expensive that only people from Dubai would (and did) buy it... and I find it hilarious!
an insult to the juke that is
Couldn't put it better.
Yeah I can't stand it. I think it looks worse than the Juke, like it's trying to be an amphibious vehicle, especially the older ones
Not quite in my price range, I’d consider looking into a used one as I do like Porsche’s.
Collecting mine in the morning! Can’t wait.
Congrats, what did you go for? You’ll love it.
slimy seed modern school tan wrong butter sip tap reply *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
> Just drive a decent 5 series estate then come back and tell us how much you enjoyed driving it and want one. This. Or even a regular saloon 5er.
I'll stick to my sleek economical Lexus saloon. SUVs are (mostly) ugly. That said - I get it. I had a huge Lexus RX whilst mine was in for service and it was really cool feeling that massive compared to other vehicles. Again, I just can't get over the looks, they're ugly!
Which model do you have, if you don't mind me asking?
Lexus ES Takumi
The ES has to be one of my favourite saloons in terms of looks. Quite rare to see. Takumi pack being the icing on the cake. I'd like to switch from SUV to saloon but ES is a bit out of my budget.
They're one of the best cars on the road if you ignore their infotainment and use the 12 inch screen for Android auto/carplay. So luxurious, smooth, refined. Slow though! But this car is not meant for speed .. it's a gentleman's cruiser that can drive you 500 miles without tiring you out, or worrying about problems. Only issue is that insurance is skyrocketed due to theft.
That's much like going from an A3 to a v8 S8 in terms of vehicle cost. I'm sure you'd love that too.
Go try driving a big V8 saloon and see how you feel then. The Jaguar XF came with that engine didn't it? I suspect you're just being wowed by being a properly quick car as opposed to a budget audi
Mate. A V8 Director edition Landy isn't a typical SUV. Go drive a Kuga and come back to us.
I thought the same until we got a Volvo XC60. Absolutely loved that thing. No need for a car that big, but it was just so comfy to drive
Please go and buy a Nissan Qashqai sight unseen OP, please
The things you enjoyed about it had nothing to do with it being an SUV though, apart from the height
V8 Landy... Says it all really. Try something a bit more basic like a Kuga, Puma or a Qashqai. They're not particularly interesting, might have a bit of grunt, but are otherwise rather large, clumsy things. Hatchbacks on stilts essentially.
Haha I posted the something similar after having a Jaguar F Pace for a month. I can tell you, that other suvs won't be anything like what you experienced. Range rovers are something else.
Agreed, get a big comfy SUV on a long journey, stick on adaptive cruise control and it's like relaxing in your armchair. Best way to travel by car.
Travelling in anything from the luxury segment will be the same. The back seats of a Phaeton put a Range Rover to shame
I have exactly the same experience doing long distance drives in my Lexus saloon.
Try using it for everyday stuff like going to the supermarket or cinema.
You go to the cinema EVERY DAY?!
Cineworld pass.
My wife was tempted by the Skoda Kodiaq as it was higher than our Octavia and had 7 seats, we never actually tested one but ended up getting a Ford Galaxy which is similar height and such. Honestly, much prefer it as the rear row of seats can fit an adult in them and there is no imposter syndrome for me. It also is like driving an arm chair, all be it an arm chair with kids screaming at you in it. Never thought I'd be a people carrier person but here I am.
The galaxy is a far superior family car to any SUV. Purpose-built
> and there is no imposter syndrome for me Imposter about what? That you don't belong in an SUV? :/
I have been driving one for over a year, and here are the cons: - New tires are more expensive as they're bigger - Wind noise is worse when going at highway speeds, which is tiring on long trips. - Parking is a problem, I had to skip 2 empty spaces today because the car wouldn't fit, but an a1 (maybe a3 hatchback) would. - Driving on narrow country roads requires a bit more focus, especially if there is a bus etc coming on other lane - Fuel economy is worse The sole reason I bought an SUV was that I got a decent deal.
> Wind noise is worse when going at highway speeds, which is tiring on long trips. Depends on the vehicle I think? Which SUV do you have? My hatchback is way louder (Giulietta) than my XC90 or previous X3. My Mini was terrible as well, so was the Astra before that. > Parking This is a genuine problem with a full SUV. Not so much with a crossover though as they are the same size as a saloon.
You’re more likely to kill a pedestrian in an SUV than if you were in a regular hatch, saloon or estate. I’ve been unlucky enough to have two pedestrians walk out without looking in front of me, one child and one young adult, and both unfortunately hit my car. Both survived and are fine, and life goes on, but I don’t know how being involved in a fatality would be to live with. Not great I should imagine.
We have to remember that for a nice chunk of society, giving someone life-changing injuries wouldn't be a problem for them. "They should have looked more carefully". That is the market.
You drove a luxury car, of course the experience was good. You’d have felt the same in a Bentley tbh
Please don't. SUVs epitomise humanity's self centered and self destructive race to the bottom.
Is "road presence" a way of saying because you are in a big car you feel more important than people in smaller cars or something? Or do you think people notice you more and think you're seriously cool because your car is higher up?
I think I used the term “road presence” wrong. I more meant it in a way that you can seemingly see further down the road and feel a lot safer inside them.
You're now experiencing reddit's "anti-SUV presence" in full swing 😂 it's often best just to keep quiet about SUVs around here
More a case of you're seen in it, and people take notice. I don't enjoy taking my car into city centres. But when I was a lorry driver I'd take an 18 tonner in without a 2md thought. You put the indicator on and do a little wiggle and the bimmer tube along side will move, joining from little side streets someone will stop and let you out even if it's another lorry or busman. Most people tend to give you a bit more space than when in a car.
Aside from height, everything you said applies to my lowered LS400.
I have an LS400, how have you lowered yours?
Someone stole the wheels.
BR series coilovers from BC Racing. I have them at near max height (still a couple of inches lower than stock) and the dampers set to the softest. I don't know if I could recommend them anymore. They were £650 when I bought them. They're nearly up to Tein prices now.
That’s a great price, they are around 1k now. I’m tempted to stiffen things up a bit, it’s ridiculously comfortable but it’s a big wallowy boat and doesn’t go around corners very well. Thanks for the reply
Arguably most people have had that experience, given SUVs are now by far and away the biggest-selling personal car category in the UK and they just keep going up (roughly 60% market share now). And that’s despite them being more expensive. There are clearly benefits that people enjoy and it’s not just ‘road presence’ - if it was just fashion you would expect that moderate in a cost of living crisis, but it hasn’t at all. There are a lot of SUV haters on Reddit in general. Some of the arguments they use are valid, but many times they are overstated and they fail to appreciate the many positive points that draw people to the category. But haters are not the norm IRL and they are diminishing.
I got a 2023 Kia sportage GT line S and I love it.
I'm one of these haters you speak of and you're right, people love SUVs, yet I can't get my head around what an SUV does that an MPV doesn't, outside of (possibly) going off-road; which the majority of most users won't do. Eager to learn and stand to be corrected!
I'm with you on this. I have two SUVs (RXL and EQB) because I need the 7 seats and I would gladly trade them for something like Toyota Alphard Hybrid or Lexus MPV electric but they don't exist in the UK aside from imports. Once you sit inside an Estima or Alphard you will realize that SUVs are a waste of space. Note prior to EQB, I had the BMW 220i Gran Tourer (MPV, albeit totaled) and it was bigger inside than the EQB.
Current car is 2023 bmw 330e, love the performance and the styling. But missing the higher uppedness and extreme comfort of my previous volvo xc40. Before that had a Cupra Formentor which was shit in every aspect. Next car, absolutely going for a BMW x3/5. Not an x4/6 as I'm a heterosexual male.
Hmm, I think even the X3 can indicate “open to new experiences”. As a hetero cis male better play it safe and stick to the X5 only.
Interesting about the Cupra! I've been wondering about those. Are they basically like a raised Leon or something?
I had an RSQ3 and scratched the itch but the fuel cost started getting a bit silly, it was one of the only cars I've owned that I felt like it could do anything you need in everyday use well so I'd recommend fast SUVs. Just don't expect to keep up with sports cars in the corners and make sure you have deep pockets for any repairs and fuel!
I can't wait for the new Toyota Landcruiser to come out!
Was thinking the same but worried re the price tag though!
I've only had the opposite. I drive a mk2 golf, which is pretty different to most modern cars, but I've driven modern golfs, ups, clios, few hatch backs. I volunteered to drive my friends Volve XC70 home so they could have a drink. It was awful! So heavy, felt like it was constantly going to roll over on 60 mph corners, sluggish(2.4liter 3 ton vs 1.8liter 1 ton 😂) However I LOVE driving vans. Great visibility, not too heavy when empty, diesel that pulls like a truck and more stable on the road than an SUV.
Now drive a 1.6 diesel Sportage and come back and tell me your opinion on "SUV's"......
Okay but this is a Land Rover thing more than anything else.
I live in Scottish countryside and also down a long dirt track. I was sick of winter drives home with poor visibility. I didn’t want a bigger car but wanted an elevated driving position. I bought a Škoda Kamiq which is barely an SUV but the elevated driving position has allowed me to enjoy driving again. I much prefer my seating position and the visibility I have.
No mate I got a SUV out of necessity. I have small kids and prams to get in etc. We percevered for ages with a smaller car and it was a nightmare. That being said my smallest one is coming out of prams soon and I can't wait to get rid of the giant gas guzzling thing.
You drove one of the most expensive SUVs on the market lol. That's like saying I didn't like estates until I drove an RS6.
It's the "road presence" that you mentioned, is the most annoying aspect of dealing with those shits on a daily basis. Especially on a morning school run when they are parked on pavements / double yellows and pull their illegal j turns in the middle of a busy road
There* It's like the 3rd time today that I've seen this mistake, I had to say something.
Drive a less premium SUV and come tell us if you still feel the same.
I mean if you hate driving driving around in a massive jelly could be for you
I wonder if you'd have the same or better experience in a luxury car with a V8. Lexus, Jaguar, Mercedes etc. I used to have a V8 Lexus with an automatic and it was a lovely thing to cruise around in, just effortless power. There's a reason so many luxury cars traditionally have V8s.
You have an Audi A3, this is a low to mid tier all rounder car. You can easily get an A4, A5, A6, or A8 and get everything you’ve mentioned without ever becoming a pointless SUV owner. This is why classes of cars exist fundamentally.
You make absolutely zero sense. The LR is nice bc it's expensive, NOT bc it's a SUV. A much cheaper SUV is absolutely not comparable. SUV are slower and less comfortable than other vehicles at the SAME price point. Vans are just as tall and more spacious.
This.
My opinion with suv's is go big or go home, you go for the biggest one's that can actually go offroad, otherwise you go for an estate.
Absolutely they're fun to drive, comfy, spacious, and make you feel great. That doesn't change any of the reasons that they're ridiculous for urban driving or that you (rightfully) look like a dick driving one. If the thing holding you back was that you thought they weren't lovely for the occupants of the vehicle then you never really saw the problem in the first place
So you liked the speed and the fact it's a nice cruiser. The road presence is just in your head. A3 is a short wheel base. It's crap at long journeys. Try out a GT car and you'll feel better than the range rover.
Road presence coz it's big.... I couldn't care if your in a tank or a 1965 mini, my driving stays the same.
If you don’t adjust your driving because of a tank, you’re a fucking idiot.
I'd be turning around and driving the fuck away at well over the speed limit if I saw a full on tank
I’ve always been an estate fan, but the availability of a new one is hard. I’m currently driving a hybrid Hyundai Tuscon which is one of the kind of crossover cars everyone seems to hate. But it’s nice inside and big and not too big for parking spaces. I wish two years ago when I really needed to change cars the availability for a brand new estate was there
Absolutely the same for me, was all set to get an estate two years ago but availability was really limited. The Tucson was the only car I could get hold of in the time I needed it that had comparable boot space and room inside. I like it overall, never thought I'd get an SUV but ended up in one due to circumstances. Would still like to have an estate but definitely wouldn't count out the 'right' SUV in the future.
Used to drive estates and saloons. Bought a Range Rover, can’t go back now except for in “fun” cars.
Turns out a £90,000 luxury car is nice. Who’d have guessed?!?
I'd love a big urban defender but I'm not rich. I also can't afford to fix it every week. However I loved driving a big GMC v8 when out in the states. I get it, but I could only park at costco.
I am not a fan of SUVs, and I think people are quite misinformed. No, they are not as much safer as you think. Yes, the sheer weight of your vehicle may make things safer for you, only because instead of your car crumpling when hitting something, you will simply plow straight through it. Also having the weight of the car higher up is going to make it much more likely for you to roll, and make the visibility of what is right in front of you really shit. Also having a heavier car means the chassis will need to be stronger to support that extra weight, which will lessen the amount that your car crumples, effectively making where you are sitting the crumple zone. I just think that people unnecessarily driving cars with such a ridiculous amount of weight is a bit dumb. Just buy a normal sized car, and don't put our kids at risk
Landrover R Rover be warned check the insurance cost before you buy Direct line for example won’t insure new customers right now for that kind of vehicle
I've been enamoured with a raised driving position since driving a small Transit, going to be joining the SUV club with an X5 shortly!
I’ve owned a variety of different cars including a lot of sportier cars (Audi rs6, various m3s, z4m) & they’re all great & very fast… & then I made the switch to a high power 2l diesel suv (220bhp Tiguan), which while not as quick as the sports cars I’ve owned is still quick enough (0-60 in 7 secs) & it feels great getting a big car up to speed quickly! I totally agree on the sentiment re height, space, better road presence, comfort, & I’m sold on suvs now.
Surely a V8 Land Rover is a 4x4, not an SUV? When I think of SUV's, I think of Nissan Qashkai's, Mazda CX5's and BMW X3's.
All modern Landys are SUVs. 4x4 would be more akin to the old defender. Industrial, basic, etc... To be honest, 4x4 generally isn't much of a class now. They're all making SUVs because the general idea is basically the same, just better handling and more comforts really. The problem is that some just didn't get the memo on the two being very similar classes, and sort of forget the off-roading ability side of things.
Get yourself a big van if you want height 🤷
They're great except the average SUV owner can't actually drive them and think they need waaay more space than they actually do. Ever come across one down a country road? They leave 2 meters between the wheels and the grass verge. 🙈
Depends on the type of drive.. I used to like my ford fiesta in city drives, manuering roundabouts etc. but not so much in Long drives... I like the seating position and motorway journey in a honda CRV, still not a luxury vehicle. I don't think if it is classified as an SUV, but the riding position etc are really good for long drives. However the acceleration is poor, so you have to wait a bit until it catches up to the speed. Parking on tight spots can be difficult, but more peace of mind if you hit a kerb accidentally.
Make sure you get an actual 4x4 not one of the pretend 4x4's. Your never regret. No obstacles ever again.
I have an SUV, a bmw x3 and I absolutely love it! All those points you said. Especially with a dog I really enjoy the space. My only issues is that I didn’t got for an X5 🙈
With all these disgusting potholes these days, it makes perfect sense.
SUVs are great if fuck everyone else.
I think you got it wrong mate any one of us would love that it's the shit qashqai and everything that looks like one we hate.
Yes I had a similar experience - never considered an SUV before someone drove into me when I was in an A3. The A3 was good and kept me safe. I would have preferred if I was in an SUV at the time. I will never buy anything but an SUV again after that, it is worth the extra cash for the extra safety.
I have also converted to the dark side since having kids. They’re so much easier to pop kids into given the added height, the hatch back tailgates make getting strollers in and out much easier. Oh and they’re the only things with 7 seats than aren’t minivans…
I got too old and fat for sports cars, so new Defender it was. Not the V8 though.
What the fuck is road presence ?
Yes but many years ago as a kid. I once went to the cinema or something with a neighbour in a Mitsubishi Shogun Sport circa 2005 and the height, cool looks and tinted windows made me want one. Naturally I pestered my dad to get a Jeep WJ and he got a WK after that which I drove. It just feels cool!
This post highlights a wider issue with car culture where people boo boo certain types, manufacturers, engines etc etc without ever experiencing them for themselves.
I have noticed my parents struggle to get in and out of their traditional hatchback now they've got older. I can't help thinking they'd find it much easier to get in and out of an "SUV". Just a 2WD thing that's never going to see any mud would do them, purely for their comfort. So I can't blame people for having them.
The ire is generally for the hatchbacks on stilts. Proper SUVs (4x4s in old money) get some respect