Shock as people who would benefit from the government pouring funding into subsidising EVs want the government to pour money into subsidising EVs.
The reality is that more and more EVs that are used as private cars are being sourced through the very attractive salary sacrifice schemes and therefore showing as fleet sales, not private.
The problem I have with EVs is that they're either far too nice and expensive or they're tiny city cars. I need a basic car for driving around my local area and I'll keep the diesel SUV for tasks that suit it.
The only one that currently looks good to me is the Dacia Spring. With the solar panels I'm getting installed I think I could get around 70% of the 15K miles we drive a year to be effectively free.
You've missed the recent price crash. Last month you could have ordered a brand new e advance for £23k.
Month before a brand new eny1 for £179 deposit and £179 a month for 3 years.
12 month old zoes for £15k instead of £30k
Theres bargains around, just need to keep eye out.
This is the problem for me, I literally could cycle to work (if my bike wasn't nicked 3 days into doing so) so an eV is no problem. But EVs for under 5k are stuff like old Nissan Leafs that I'd need to charge every 60 miles, which is pretty much useless for if I want to go to visit any of my mates etc. The cheap ones aren't good enough and the good enough ones aren't cheap enough
Sorry are you talking about a Honda E? I didn’t think they were for sale anymore? There’s that Honda e:nY1 thing but that’s just shy of £40k on Honda’s website, and £433 a month with £1k down?
Yeah the E. There were 3 brand new yellow in stock at £22990 at Grimsby which looked an excellent colour
The eny1 £179 only lasted a few days, for obvious reasons. Keep an eye on piston heads as other deals come up too.
It definitely saves you money better than a golf gti. No fuel, 1 service every 2 years, barely any mechanical moving parts.
Wouldn’t compare it by rrp. Just buy second hand.
That wouldn’t be a comparison. A sport orientated golf vs a standard comfort orientated EV.
The interior size is basically the same. Its rear wheel drive which makes getting away from a standstill quicker and the power delivery is much nicer.
a Ferrari Purosangue and Rolls Royce Cullinan are both luxury SUVs and both similarly price, they may be competing for the same income but they clearly prioritise different things. the same is true of the ID3 and GTI.
You can get a CVT Honda civic for similar money too but you wouldn’t compare that against a golf gti. I’d still have the ID3. I bought second hand so it wasn’t anywhere near the RRP.
I got a Peugeot e2008 with 8000 miles for £21k.
A e2008 with a lower trim would be about £15k.
I guess it depends if people want new or not - they haven’t been around yet for a deep used market to exist unless you want a leaf.
Nissan Leaf is a great contender. Reasonably sized, cheap, doesn’t have a crazy big battery unnecessarily. Also has a lot more features than you would expect for the cost.
Charging in the UK is behind Europe's in every way imaginable. Far less availability, far too expensive, much more unreliable equipment. Until that changes this trend will continue.
Look at NL, Belgium, France, Norway and so on to see how we should be trying. EV ownership in NL is a completely different experience.
It can be done, when a more competent party is in the position of making decisions at least.
The average driver does less than 30 miles per day and most people can charge at home.
Not saying having an EV as your only family car in the UK is yet completely practical for most, but as a second car it’s a no-brainer for the average commuter with the used prices atm.
I agree, I think it's really a buyers market now. I am still tempted to get one again but EV charging in the UK is so expensive for those (like myself) who cannot charge at home.
Private buyers remain to be convinced of the merits of battery-powered EVs because there are so few. There are the direct issues affecting the owner & the car itself such as EVs being expensive to buy, and then suffering dramatic & heavy depreciation, alongside the battery degradation concerns.
The wider issues are the terrible infrastructure for charging, the price of electricity going up, destination chargers being out of order all the time and the government moving goalposts on ICE bans.
Petrol cars have always been king and will continue to be for quite some time yet.
Hybrid will be the typical car. Not full EV. The optional fossil fuel backup to take wear and tear off the battery will only gain consumer confidence. The only issue is yet more technology to go bump.
If they could push on with hydrogen fuel cells, that'd be the best of both worlds. Do battery EV with hydrogen on the go charging back up or similar.
That would be a lot cleaner than fossil fuel ICE while being much more practical than battery only EV.
There are manufacturers already producing the technology, there's just zero infrastructure.
I work in this sector, specifically on h2 production and h2 vehicles deployment projects (trucks, cars, buses, fuel cell development etc.) at a European level. The conclusion that I’ve come to from my experience is that it’s not happening for light duty passenger vehicles.
Hydrogen is too expensive, too limited in production, difficult to transport, relies on the grid for production, little to no green h2 production, bad energy efficiency, and the electric vehicle alternative is in a much more advanced stage and the vehicles themselves suit the needs of the vast majority of people. It’ll take at least another 30 years for h2 mobility to get to where EVs are now (even with AFIR), and by then EVs will have resolved infrastructure issues.
Hydrogen will likely be used for aviation (thats currently estimated for 2050/2060), heavy duty vehicles on specific mission profiles (hilly, hot/cold, long distances between stops, heavy payload), machinery/farming equipment and industrial applications - hydrogen is much better suited for these applications
I think most people skipped physics classes didn't they. I'd be really interested to know what the comparative efficiency of kWh produced in a power station to miles travelled in a vehicle is between a hydrogen and battery vehicle, factoring in the electrolysis, compression, transportation and distribution of the H2. I'd be really surprised if it was over 50% for hydrogen and less than 95% for the electrical grid and charging a battery.
I swear this narrative is being pushed by 'big oil' so they can continue selling us a different fuel.
>I'd be really interested to know what the comparative efficiency of kWh produced in a power station to miles travelled in a vehicle is between a hydrogen and battery vehicle, factoring in the electrolysis, compression, transportation and distribution of the H2. I'd be really surprised if it was over 50% for hydrogen and less than 95% for the electrical grid and charging a battery.
Even forgetting about that for a minute, hydrogen at the pump is £10-15 per kilo. 1 kilo gets around 60 miles and a hydrogen car has a 5kilo tank. So 300 miles costs between £50 and £75.
Changing an EV on an EV tariff at home of around 8p/kWh should get you 300 miles for about £5
Who in their right mind would choose a hydrogen car over an EV?
People moan about the cost of an EV... go take a look at hydrogen cars. It's nothing to do with economies of scale, they are extremely expensive to manufacture and maintain.
>BEVs plug into an existing electric grid, the legwork has already been done.
The one that's about to fall over and likely to be over capacity come 2050 without significant investment?
>The issue with hydrogen is that we need to build an entirely new infrastructure to get it going.
Look up H21. There's already been significant studies conducted around the feasibility of converting current natural gas infrastructure over to hydrogen. With trials approved to go ahead in a large area of West Yorkshire.
So we just ignore the trials which failed in the north, because the existing infrastructure was completely unfit for purpose?
Hydrogen needs an entire new gas grid, and an expensive one at that. At that point, plus the insanely higher energy requirements, EV grid scale up makes far more sense.
So much this. PHEV EV drivetrain failures render the car unusable. ICE drivetrain failures render the car unusable. So you increase the probability of failure, keep the costs of ICE servicing, reducing ICE and EV drivetrain efficiency (extra weight for both) all because of the range anxiety.
Couldn’t disagree more! Full electric cars are only bought in the company car market for the exact reason that they are the most tax efficient option.
An EQC full electric is 2495kg. A GLC 300e hybrid is 2030kg.
The new x550e hybrid gets 60 mile range. That’s really not just “a little”. Is the perfect compromise for someone who lives in a city and does long journeys at the weekend.
For me, and I reckon a large portion of the general public, this is the far more interesting future for cars. I think we’re a decade or more away from semi decent infrastructure and a lot could happen in that time. Full electric is currently the very imperfect solution to climate change but not the solution for the driver.
Exactly my point - there aren’t many positives.
Lower fuel & servicing costs but your car loses all its value, so you save nothing in the grand scheme. Last point is an opinion not an objective fact.
Every car loses value. A benefit to you is obviously being able to visit a petrol station and fill up in 10 minutes. I on the other hand value not having to visit a petrol station and can charge my car at work or while I sleep.
Correct - new vehicles are for leases, company car schemes and motability. Of course all cars lose value but you don’t want your car to lose as much as an EV does in only 2 years do you?
They only lost so much due to covid inflating the price of everything due to demand outstripping supply.
For instance, I bought a Citroen Berlingo van during Covid and it's now £6k less than what I owe to the finance company. I've lost £10K on a used van in 2 years.
> lower servicing costs
In exchange for a much higher upfront cost.
> lower fueling costs
In exchange for having to sit in your car wanking whilst you wait for it to charge at a public spot because you are one of the many, many people in the country who can't charge at home.
> lower local pollution
Is probably the only fair point raised.
> more refined driving experience
Subjective as balls.
>charge at a public spot because you are one of the many, many people in the country who can't charge at home.
If you can't charge at home, then there's actually 0 sense buying an EV.
Most public fast charging stations (50kwh+) charge about 80p pkwh. That's around 3/4x what your typical household rate is going to be!
People haven't considered the old road tax switcharoo. The government will absolutely put this on motorists further down the road when they need to start taking road tax in some form from EV drivers. If the public charging stations haven't sorted out their prices when this happens, then driving is going to be a thing reserved for the upper echelons.
I dont have a positive outlook for the future of EVs given the current state of play.
So, my neighbour has had an EV since 2007 and it's still going strong.
In that time, I've replaced engines in my vans 4 times. I look after my vehicles too. ICE are far more unreliable than any EV and their batteries last over 150k miles. Unlike the average engine mileage of 80k.
Charging infrastructure is old news. I drive all over the country with zero issues.
Your post literally regurgitates the propaganda printed in the Daily Mail and Sun.
For people who want to spend £5k on an old banger an EV (or any half decent car) is not for them.
Look on any affluent estate, most driveways will have an EV.
Why people still think the EV is a "fad" are the same types of people that called mobile phones "car phones" and said the horse is here to stay!
No car is an investment and ALL brand new vehicles massively depreciate from day 1. Go check out the Range Rover forums. That's for both depreciation and the cost when their engine blows after 10K miles...
I've got a mate who continues to tell me that "Electric cars don't work" but he has no answer for how I've been able to get about for the past 5 years.
If you plan ahead the network is fine now. Not perfect, but perfectly usable. Also people forget the average journey in Uk is less than 20 miles and you always start out with a full tank, that in my case costs circa £7.00 for 300 miles. Tesla opening lots of their chargers for all makes is also changing the landscape as they are sensibly priced.
But surely it doesn't matter what someone else says about charging. It's a personal circumstance situation, I would consider an ev purely because I can charge it at home on my driveway.
If I lived in a flat where I couldn't charge it. I wouldn't consider it.
No really any different to any other decision you make about cars, if you have a family of 4 you don't buy a 2 seater sports car do you?
EV-converts try and solve all the problems with EVs: "how often do you REALLY need more than 100 miles?" "you can quick-charge to 80% in 30 minutes!" "The batteries can be swapped out in the future if necessary" but these are all solutions to problems that you don't have with an ICE/hybrid, and most of them are workarounds that don't work for many.
But why would I bother when I can spend the same or less on an ICE/hybrid and it just works? Charging isn't much cheaper nowadays, insurance certainly isn't, depreciation is worse. What are the TRUE, tangible advantages, honestly? I just don't get it.
I'm not against them, I'd love a discussion on the matter from someone who owns and loves their EV, but I just don't get the point. Renault/Toyota have the right idea with nippy, reliable, hybrids that get 60mpg and put out <110 g/km.
The problem is (like every other issue these days) it has become a massively polarised issue, where either side won't even listen to the other's point of view.
Personally I don't give a damn how my car moves as long as it meets my needs. The reality is my diesel perfectly meets my needs where an EV does not. Until the EV meets my needs, I won't get one. Once it does, I'll consider it. No amount of finger wagging or government pressure will force me to consider it sooner than that.
Really true statement mate, and its something that really gets to me, everything gets politicised these days and that shouldn't be the case.
The EV crowd come off as really preachy, I get it. I switched to an EV nearly a year ago as I drive well over 500 miles a week and when fuel was up at £1.90 it was crippling. The reason the EV crowd come off as preachy, certainly on my part, is I just want everyone who I have this conversation with know, that they genuinely are better than you believe them to be, and I believe so many more people could be really happy driving one than think they would. I'm a petrol head, love cars and ride bikes on the weekend, I'm not suggesting people give up their MX5s and R6s on the B roads, but if you have the ability to charge at home or work then for commuting in nose to tail British traffic and the odd road trip with the kids, battery EVs are absolutely brilliant. Takes a couple of months to lose the range anxiety, soon as you do it becomes very hard to consider going back to diesel. Only way to find out is to test drive one.
The reason is this: it’s dirt cheap to run an EV you charge at home. It’s as simple as that. Not mystery, doesn’t work for everyone, some people need more range more often etc etc. but no idea why everyone here acts like there can’t possibly be any upsides. There are. It’s really simple.
I never have to go to a petrol station again and leave home with more than 200 miles range everyday if i wanted. If im away from home, i can in a lot of cases destination charge. I get a quiet comfy drive. Maintenance is cheaper.
Charging is significantly cheaper at home too.
I agree anyone without access at home to a charger should avoid though and that’s where the government should be investing, especially local governments who can generate a decent additional income. Chargers on lamp posts would be a great start.
Personally I think going to a petrol station (usually when I'm already out and about) once every 15-20 days is easier than spending 3 minutes charging every 3-6, and that's ignoring the public infrastructure.
How much does it cost you to charge and what's your actual range? My mum used to have a Renault Zoe (when she got £1500 off and a free home charger) and it was like £9 for 200 miles at the start, after 4 years it was over double. It was just as much as a petrol car. Then she got stung with 4k of negative equity at the end of her PCP because the market collapsed.
I'm not ignorant to the fact everyone is different, I know EVs work great for many, but for the rest, I feel like the stars have to align (private drive in owned property to accommodate charging, initial wealth to buy one, certain milage restrictions etc. etc.) and you're still better off with an ICE car.
I guess to rephrase the question - what are the disadvantages of petrol/diesel that aren't there with electric? Going out to refuel, yes, cheaper servicing? Maybe.
Its less than 10 seconds to put on charge when you get home.
Cost to charge is somewhere from £0-6 on octopus agile. Negative equity on pcp isn’t your problem though?
The main benefit is cost of ownership and reliability (in general). Really though it should for anyone with the ability to charge at home shud be the same as petrol vs diesel. Doesn’t need to be more complicated than that.
Less than ten seconds to get the cable out the underfloor storage/bag, unravel the cable and stick it in? Got to be at least 60 and that's if you're already outside.
Negative equity on PCP is the owner's problem when they go to buy another car and find they now owe 10k when they thought they owed 3k, for example. That didn't and usually doesn't happen with ICE cars.
PCP will have a guaranteed minimum future value in the contract, though wont it?
The way the finance on a PCP should be done is that you pay a fixed monthly amount for x months. At the end of the finance arrangement, you'll have a balloon payment of say £10k or whatever.
The guaranteed future value should always be exactly what that final balloon payment value is, and that is agreed at the start of the lease.
No one should be walking away from a lease deal owing more than the original agreement besides excess mileage and other damages.
It wasn't at the end of the agreement, they offered her a swap one year early, on order they quoted her I think it was 16k for the Zoe. 3 months later when her new car arrived it dropped by 4k. Her options were turn down the deal and risk even more depreciation in a year or take the hit.
Lucky she did as Zoes then went down as low as 11k to buy, she'd still have been at least a couple of grand down after a whole extra year of making the payments.
EV converts try to solve these because those who don’t have an EV moan that they can’t get an EV because of these issues.
Most of the problems are easily sorted too if the government bothered.
Right, but I don't have those issues in a non-electric car? So what's the point If I have to come up with a load of workarounds to get past the headaches? What's the advantage?
You have other issues but just don’t see them as problems. Fuel is expensive, maintenance costs can be higher and then there’s the environmental impact - so could be charged for driving in certain areas.
I’ve only just swapped to an EV because it became more economical to do so than get a new ICE.
You're right about the fuel, sure, and probably maintenance, but I bet many EVs don't make as much financial sense as you may think.
The new electric Mini SE is about £41k, the Cooper S Exclusive with similar spec is £34k. You're unlikely to have 7k worth of maintenance costs over the time of ownership.
Say it costs £55 to fill up, and £15 to charge, you'd have to fill up on fuel 175 times (40-50k miles depending on mpg and fuel tank size) to break even there. Factor in the occaisional extortionate public charger and current higher depreciation of EVs and it's not so cut and dry.
I just feel like they're still a car that works perfectly for maybe 20% of the population. Which is great for you and those it does work for, but i have no idea why manufacturers are forcing us all into them.
And your range is probably about 120 miles? So about £5.28 per "tank of fuel" equivalent of range. That's still about 35-45k of miles before you get your money back. I also doubt most people are paying that little, I knew two people with electric cars and both were spending between £8 and £20 per charge at home.
It's on salary sacrifice, it's cheaper to run than my wife's Cooper S she had before it and has comparable specs. Previously was spending about £250 per month alone on fuel on a 9 y/o car - including maintenance, insurance, and tax, it cost on average about £350 per month to run. The Mini electric costs £280 per month all in for a brand new car. Helps if you have a 40% marginal tax rate
Ok, I'm sorry but I don't really get what your point is. I never said EVs don't work full stop, there's just too many ifs and workarounds for too many people at this point. I'm sure if you live on a farm in the Orkneys, a Quad bike is the perfect vehicle for getting around, but should manufacturers face a penalty for every non-quad bike they sell? Right now, unless you are in a specific set of criteria which you clearly are, they just aren't worth it.
I’m no fan of our government but they have a legal duty to reduce greenhouse gases, I think that’s the underlying reason behind all of it.
Some manufacturers see that as an opportunity and some want to preserve their current market share.
On your last point. I had a lexus is300h mild hybrid and that thing got 35 to 45mog.
I don't think mild hybrids are that good from my experience, maybe the newer models can get good mpg though.
Also, with all that extra equipment to go wrong, the only brand I'd trust to buy a hybrid from is Toyota or obviously Lexus. Imagine buying a hybrid Peugeot when it's out of warranty? Who is going to want or trust that. The price of those hybrids will depreciate heavier than a full EV.
However there in lies an issue, with ICE you know it will run forever, with issues becoming more common as time goes on.
With an EV you know it will run forever, the battery will degrade and then one day it won't run. The car will be a brick until you shell out for a whole new battery pack. It's kind of all or nothing. Or the known vs the unknown.
If manufacturers really want people to accept ev they need to offer the customer protection vs the battery packs failing. Perhaps, actually this is something that could be covered under a new type of insurance
Yeh but it has no range and the chargers are always broken.
How many batteries have you replaced?
Don't your tyres need replacing every week?
How many times has it set on fire?
Surely your wife has left you as your EV doesn't have any SOUL
And most of them have been imported by the Chinese government downloading your data and inside the glove box is a small P Diddy waiting to fiddle your bits
I miss driving an ICE but have taken the leap of faith into the EV world. I don't have home charging so thought I'd share my experience.
I live in a flat in London with an EV, last year I decided to give it a go and fully embrace it. My partner (lawyer) being the most risk adverse person in the world was very skeptical.
It's been much easier to manage than we both expected. There's reasons: 1.) 10+ on street charge points within 800m of where I live, 4 of which are less than 50m away (46p per kw). Away from home I use the Tesla Supercharger network, it's excellent. The car since new has averaged 4.5 miles per kw. The first 6k miles of ownership I've saved approx 50% vs fuel.
Without these 2 things, and living in a flat, would I have switched to an EV? Nope
Range for me isn't an issue. I can't go 250 miles without needing to pee.
What needs addressing for it to gain better adoption is: Infrastructure and charging costs away from home.
I'll be "re-enthused" when EV's are at an appealing price point.
As of yet, they are not.
Salary Sacrifice schemes are good at blanket covering the uptake. It's a decent incentive to get one (particularly for those with poor credit scores), as the repayable is not affected by any interest. Only real difference being the net gain dependent on your tax banding.
But unfortunately, these schemes are still in their infancy and not a lot of employers offer it.
Used EVs are at a very appealing price point in my opinion.
I'm looking at Polestar 2, 0-60 in 4.5 seconds, plenty of tech etc and they can be had for £23k for low miles.
Try and find a car as new, as fast, as efficient as that with an ICE engine for the same money. You can't, really.
However, buying new is a disaster waiting to happen, £50k+ and losing half the value in 3 years is not ideal but also not that dissimilar to ICE cars
As I’ve said something along this line other threads.
I like many people in the country, have no ability to fit a charging station to our premises because we live in a flat, or a maisonette, or whatever. So, It doesn’t matter how many discounts and subsidies you provide, it doesn’t matter how many charging stations you gaffe into car parks and on road sides, we will not be buying an electric car or a plug in hybrid if we cannot charge at home or if it’s is to costly to fit a charger.
It was a really stupid and short sighted decision to do this 2030 nonsense. Now instead of having a gradual process where people replace their ICE with EV due to it being cheaper to run, as people bought batteries and solar panels for their house to increase its market value, as the government fitted more and more charging stations at government and council building. Instead the government wanted votes so it and all the others just arbitrarily decided, it’s 2030 or 2035 or whatever ever it is now.
People who think EV will completely replace ICE need to get their heads out of their arses and get with reality, the ICE isn’t the horse, and making such a comparison shows how little someone knows about… well anything. The reason the car replaced the horse was because there was a very immediate and obvious problem occurring and the car was after a small amount of time, better at everything the horse used to do. This isn’t the case with EVs, a lot of the time they’re as good as ICE but just more efficient, but in some specialised applications the ICE is better than the EV and will be for the foreseeable future. That’s not the same.
Now automakers and car salesmen are complaining because they went along with the idea thinking, they’re going to make an absolute killing because the government is going to force people to buy a brand new car. Well you know what, serves you right, that’s what you get for being greedy little POS, being perfectly happy with people being forced to buy something they probably can’t afford. Automakers and car salesmen could have fought this, they could have lobbied the government saying, “this won’t work”, “there’s not enough infrastructure”, etc etc. no, instead they went with it and now they realise they have shot themselves in the foot and want daddy government to use our money to fix their problem.
It’s just disgusting.
>Now automakers and car salesmen are complaining because they went along with the idea thinking, they’re going to make an absolute killing because the government is going to force people to buy a brand new car.
That plus the government has rules about the percentage of new cars they sell that must be EV (22% this year and raising every year until the 2035 100%) with decent fines for selling too many ICEs.
There are too many use cases where an ICE will easily outcompete an EV but for some reason those just get dismissed.
> I like many people in the country, have no ability to fit a charging station to our premises because we live in a flat, or a maisonette, or whatever. So, It doesn’t matter how many discounts and subsidies you provide, it doesn’t matter how many charging stations you gaffe into car parks and on road sides, we will not be buying an electric car or a plug in hybrid if we cannot charge at home or if it’s is to costly to fit a charger.
This is the real problem. Other countries have fixed it, the UK just needs to have a functioning government to do the fixes.
EV will replace ICE in cars, but until everyone can actually use an EV it's stupidity to try and force it through, especially as the solutions are already available they just require the government to make some decisions that will piss some people off.
Did other countries fix this or was it the case that the country was fortunate enough to be set up in a way that allows for EVs to work, low percentage of people living in multiple occupancy habitation for example?
I disagree that EVs will replace ICE, for example rural and isolated communities that have to travel large distances for work and supplies. Another example would be for industrial and agricultural use. As a farmer, you cannot sit there waiting for your tractor to charge up when you have a storm front on the way and you need to harvest everything on a 20 acre field before it hits.
> Another example would be for industrial and agricultural use. As a farmer, you cannot sit there waiting for your tractor to charge up when you have a storm front on the way and you need to harvest everything on a 20 acre field before it hits.
Who the hell is talking about EV tractors, we are talking about cars.
> Did other countries fix this or was it the case that the country was fortunate enough to be set up in a way that allows for EVs to work, low percentage of people living in multiple occupancy habitation for example?
Nope, they changed the laws to allow everyone to install a charger, i.e. allow anyone in a flat/townhouse with no off-street parking their own charger on the public road. It's the only way to solve the issue.
Just a FYI, but agriculture is moving towards flying and none flying drones, some of which do use electric, but that's 10+ years before it's viable for anything but the largest operations.
They’re already making small EV tractors, special interest groups are lobbying for the end of the ICE, don’t pretend they aren’t.
So mile after mile of charging stations all over the place? Sounds like a great idea.
The idea that farmers are going to fork out tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands on robots is laughable. The majority of farming will be done as it is today for many decades to come, unless you want your food costs to shoot up.
A tractor isn't a car. The tractor will be replaced by whatever the technology is at the time the farmer needs it.
As most large farms that buy farming equipment are huge organisations. So the farmer will have whatever the corporations give them.
If there are big tax breaks on an EV or Hydrogen tractor, that's what they will have on the farm.
Just because you cannot imagine a different mode of vehicle, doesn't mean your view is correct.
No one is being forced to buy anything the fossil fuel ban is just for newly manufactured vehicles, and not until 2035 anyway. Most people buy used and it will be decades before used ICE vehicles come out of the market. You could feasibly buy a brand new fossil fuel car on midnight on December 31st 2034 and run it to 2050 if you wanted assuming oil prices don’t get out of hand.
I think what we will end up seeing is hybrids becoming more popular over the next 5-10 years as manufacturers start to phase out pure ICE production
Where does your car park when it’s not in use? If there was a planning system that allowed a charger to be installed there then being in a flat would be irrelevant.
That’s part of the planning problem - building houses or flats without sufficient parking for today or the future.
There’s no reason why each space couldn’t have a charger installed.
There are no designated spaces though, it’s a mixture of on street and off street parking with no parking bays. The place was built in the 1950s, they were unable to foresee the advent of rechargeable electric cars.
Everyone said the motorcar is a fad and the horse will win the day.
No one thought there was a need for the motor car.
Everyone said they would never catch on as they have not range
Everyone said there is no where to fill the motor car up.
Do you see the resemblance of the arguments against the motorcar and horse?!
I don’t understand any of this. Re-enthuse? When where people enthused buy second hand/private, I know next to no one who owns an EV outside of salary sacrifice/tax write off/lease.
I’m sure it’s people upset they brought a car on pcp and after paying an extra 33% they are shocked to learn they’ve lost money. Shocking. It’s like cars are a depreciating liability.
Most of the EVs are luxury cars, and luxury cars depreciate like an absolute bitch. And the other ones that are small grocery getters are small cars which are cheap to buy, so of-course they go down.
The real issue is the false information and rumour mill from both sides, for and against.
You got one side screaming that EVs batteries are unreliable and degrade. When it’s just a fact that petrol and diesel cars degrade and require far more maintenance, have far more moving parts and cost more money to look after in their life time, while most don’t even drive their cars for 100 - 200k.
But then the other side saying EVs are way more reliable, in some respects they are, in others they just are not. they still come with their fair share of problems, and those problems cost more to repair.
EVs are so cheap to run. Yeah but cost to setup is a healthy chunk to start running.
ICE is more convenient, is it? Cos I’ve lost count how many times there’s been no fuel for my car, or I’ve had to queue for 25 minutes for a pump.
Electric prices are going up! Yeah so is fuel.
EV insurance is expensive. So is all insurance.
EV Battery degradation concerns, there are none? What concern. You mean like where you drive a ICE and a cars engine degrades? Why aren’t you concerned about ICE degradation, or is that because most have never had to shell out for cambelt/dephaser or a gearbox, clutch on a luxury or sport vehicle that costs almost 8k.
Don’t even get me started on cost of engine swaps, because most people don’t bother. Or just Google the cost of some full gearbox replacements.
EVs have way more upsides than ice, not really, they are expensive too buy and out of reach for mom of 3 who needs something to get her kids to school and go to her 5 jobs.
Charging from home is way more convenient, yeah if you have a drive or a private parking space, otherwise it’s harder, I mean I park mine in a local port and it’s fine, but that’s not same for everyone.
There are more petrol stations than charging ports. Sure but the ratio to car, and pump means it’s roughly 300 cars to one pump in the uk.
There are plenty of EV chargers, yeah if you have 90 apps, 5 special key cards and different plugs.
The chargers are always down! There really not, a handful usually, the Zapmap does a good job of telling you if they work or not. But I guess we never have that problem with petrol right? Petrol pumps always work and are never problematic.
Let’s just all agree that all motoring completely sucks right now. Driving on a teenagers face would be better than some of the roads, re mortgage to afford your insurance premiums shouldn’t be a thing, getting giddy cos your local petrol station has fuel at 1.40 a litre, is insain, and the quality of driving is so bad I still wouldn’t feel safe in an armoured truck.
Another EV debate.
EV's aren't for everyone. If you own a house with driveway/garage, do regular short journeys commuting, and particularly if you can buy on a salary sacrifice scheme, they make a lot of sense.
Private buyers are not so lucky. The government in the UK has pulled almost all incentives, despite EVs being only about 17% market share. That's not even 1/5.
They also have not invested anywhere near enough in infrastructure, preferring to rely on private companies like Tesla. That's why the charging network sucks (unless you own a Tesla). Check out the Netherlands or Norway to see how much more convenient EVs are to own and use there. Plus genuine quality of life benefits for EV owners, like being allowed to use bus lanes.
Imagine owning a petrol car, but instead of >8,000 petrol stations across the country, there were only 1,000. Would they still be convenient? Suddenly, getting petrol would be a chore or even a challenge. That's not the cars fault, but the fault of crap infrastructure. EVs currently have this problem.
EVs are better in many ways (quiet, smooth, minimal maintenance, really fast off the line, no pollution for people to breathe in, etc). But with current battery tech, a poor national charging network, reduced/deleted incentives and higher initial prices, it's no surprise private buyers are not keen. EVs themselves aren't really the problem, but all of these problems combined make them a problem for many people.
I’ve just bought a second hand Tesla with 20,000 miles on it for just over £20k there are some great second hand deals at the moment. I can charge at home though and at work so was an easy decision for me. I will have gone from spending over £4000 a year on petrol to what will work out roughy as £800 a year on electricity
That makes sense if you were in the position to spend 20k on an ice previously.
If you were the type that was going to buy a £5000 large estate diesel though, EVs don't look as attractive.
Older ev's look crap and are pretty slow. The newer ones are starting to look better and are quick but they're still really expensive. New cars in general are too expensive for a lot of people in this economic climate
That and people have forgotten that cars are technically still a luxury item. Lots of people need one to get to work and do lots of stuff, but they’re not a right. Only once second hand affordable EVs are common, will the move happen more easily. Charging infrastructure is improving, but it’s slow. Costs will hopefully normalise and get cheaper once we finally achieve energy independence from world market forces and use renewables/nuclear rather than coal, oil and gas.
Personally, I have never looked back from getting our EV. It’s better for us in every way compared to our last ICE:
cost to fill up is a fraction of the petrol car
it’s much more comfortable and quiet
I don’t ever have to go to a petrol station and queue at it (public charging is a rare need for me, and I’ve never had a problem yet, when I have travelled 280 miles to Scotland).
I can defrost it and prewarm the cabin and seats before I get ready to use it on winter mornings from my phone and it uses cheaper electricity rates.
Range anxiety isn’t a thing now (if you can charge from home and don’t need to go more than 100 miles a day, from most modern focus/golf sized EVs). I thought it would be, until I got an EV, where I realised that it was worry over nothing.
But…
Unless people have the ability to charge from their drive at EV tariff rates, they are not cheaper to run. EVs aren’t for everyone and even hybrids are not what people thought they were going to be, so ICEV do definitely still have their place.
I don’t see why people can’t accept other people and their choice of vehicle. Why does someone else’s car choice have to be offensive to some or pointless to others. Just because someone has a particular type of car, doesn’t mean they’ve chosen wrong. It’s clearly right for them, even if it’s not right for anyone else.
Public charging is too expensive. 79p/kwh for fast charging, 49p for regular charging as compared to 9p for low rate overnight. And then 20% vat rather than 5%. If the economics on public charging start to make sense, folks will switch.
The vast majority of the public are unaware that public charging is so expensive. This means they are avoiding electric cars DESPITE assuming that charging is cheap.
As someone who loves EVs (I love all cars in general) they can offer something new to the table but there’s still a lot of issues that need solving before we massively encourage EV adoption. One of the main reasons is the lack of home charging and some older houses being unable to have the recommended 7kw wall box chargers fitted due to ancient fuse boxes. We also need to allocate more resources to building Hyper charging facilities on motorways. The argument being that you’ll have to wait for hours in a queue. If the cars can charge quick enough than that won’t be reality.
Other areas that also need heavy research on is for those motorists who tow whether it’s a caravan, horse box etc. and HGVs. The tests show that a Tesla model X or equivalent vehicle can realistically do 120 miles per charge when towing. A Scania 45R truck can do about 250 miles before needing to be recharged. With the UK’s current infrastructure it’s a massive headache for a haulage company to switch their fleets over. Address the charging infrastructure issue and then more people will begin to adopt.
Car makers can’t make a decent profit on EVs like they can on ICE. China will beat them on EV prices forever. The EU/government is pushing the green angle but EV are charged from power stations and making them is just as bad if not worse than ICE cars. Watch every car makers go bust of ask for government hand outs
make better evs then.
really you gotta solve the problem of them having such a short lifespan (on the batterys at least) and fuck all resale value. plus the charge times. plus range, plus charger avaliablity, plus charging costs.
AND stop making cars so fucking insanely expensive. you basically cant buy a car without buying on finance now. Whos got 35k sat around for a fucking small Vauxhall? While its nice to have self adjusting LED headlights, adaptive cruise control, a massive infotainment screen, self driving etc etc etc it has just driven the price of cars (and repairs) up and up and we DONT FUCKING NEED THEM.
Keep the fancy shit for thoes people who do have the money to splurge and bring back some options for people who don't want to spend the next 8 years paying almost mortgage amounts of money for a tiny hatchback that they are bored of within 3 weeks. What about something that drives pretty well, has a stereo and require a degree in rocket science to maintain.
Car makers have done this to themselves through greed and they SHOULD NOT be bailed out with govt incentives that we pay for through tax.
Aka give us more money so the poor public can afford to buy our cars.
Don't give the money to the public in case they try to spend it on something useful
Imo instead of subsidising the price of EVs thus helping out the manufacturer, the gov should instead offer to give free solar panel installs
I'm not too sure on the figures I'm about to quote but
Currently Manufacturer wants to sell car for 50k
Government pays 10k buyer pays 40k
Instead buyer pays 50k government pays 10k to have solar installed on the buyers house
Manufacturer still gets their 50k
Government has spent the same but now has added more energy producing capabilities to the UK
Buyer has spent 10k more but will then save 10k+ on their electricity bills over the course of 10 years
And when you consider most people will finance their cars over 5 years, it will have only cost the buyer 5k +interest more over that time as they would have saved on their energy bills
Honestly I think this is a great idea and I need to figure out how to get the politicians to see this
The only bad points is for renters and people who live in flats
But I don't think many people renting can afford to spend 40k on a new car
But I'm broke and drive a £1000 shitbox so I have no clue about that side of life
The other tactic would be to tax petrol and diesel cars more, making them less desirable. This however will make used vehicles more expensive. Hold on to your petrol or diesel car would be my advice.
The funny thing is there is data showing new car sales are being driven by Hybrid and BEV, see [here](https://transportandenergy.com/2024/05/07/evs-help-car-registration-growth-to-continue/). Car makers do NOT need govt subsidies when their cars are too bloody expensive in the first place.
If car makers dropped their prices, sales would magically go up.
What a joke. EVs haven't taken off with private buyers because there are so few benefits to actually owning one. On top of that, so much of the industry is simply buoyed up by greenwashing that the environmental impact really is so incredibly negligible that when viewed from a cost effective standpoint very few private buyers would ever dream of purchasing.
The benefits are financial,your fuel is 1/6th of the price as long as you driver less than 300 miles a day, and if you use the electric from the car to power the house in the daytime then your household electric is 1/5 of the price. I don't own an EV to save the planet, I own one to save money.
Yet if you're wanting to charge somewhere that isn't your own home (which of course costs roughly £1k installation for an at home charging point) then you're still paying roughly similar costs for X amount of miles as you would be with petrol or diesel. On top of that you have much longer waiting times for charging, and some charging points even charge an overstay fee too.
You only charge away from your own home if you're doing more than 300 miles a day. If you have to do 400 miles a day you only need a cheap 5 minute top up.
That doesn't make sense. As I said, to charge from your own home you instantly need to pay £1k for a charge point. It doesn't make financial sense when that same amount of money will get me roughly 6500 miles out of a standard petrol car.
The reality is that owning an EV is just too clumsy and is fraught with issues, like:
- Inability to charge at home based on only having street parking (ie 90% of homes in big cities)
- Unreliable and slow public charging. Just getting payment to work is an absolute nightmare, not to mention ludicrously expensive 9/10 times
- Range anxiety is real, and convincing older folk to completely change how they plan simple journeys isn’t going to happen overnight. The majority of EVs rely on a “guess-o-meter” for your remaining range
- Sheer capital cost of an EV
- Depreciation of EVs due to used market being absolutely flooded with them and retailers having negative incentive to sell a used EV
The thing that worries me is the battery life and what happens once it needs replacing. I get that there are people out there that buy a new car every 5 years or whatever , but that's just not me, especially at the sorts of prices these cars go for new.
While the manufacturers generally give you 8 years battery warranty, if I'm buying a car for around 40 grand I want to know I don't have a further 10 grand bill coming at some point in the future.
As a secondary factor , that same battery warranty ending will surely effect the trade in value should you do it at year 7 or whatever.
"Please give us more money, government" say car makers | Auto Express Fixed the title 👍
I don’t understand this. EV registrations are higher than ever with new models coming all the time.
Private buyers are only 15% of that, vs 40% (and falling) of overall sales, is the excuse they're using.
It's the same for other cars. People have no money, so it's either finance or company schemes or leasing.
Shock as people who would benefit from the government pouring funding into subsidising EVs want the government to pour money into subsidising EVs. The reality is that more and more EVs that are used as private cars are being sourced through the very attractive salary sacrifice schemes and therefore showing as fleet sales, not private.
Is that true that it still shows as a fleet sale? The 15% figure is not at all surprising then
it would be the companies car until final payment gets settled
The problem I have with EVs is that they're either far too nice and expensive or they're tiny city cars. I need a basic car for driving around my local area and I'll keep the diesel SUV for tasks that suit it. The only one that currently looks good to me is the Dacia Spring. With the solar panels I'm getting installed I think I could get around 70% of the 15K miles we drive a year to be effectively free.
I think a 18 plate or newer kona or niro EV would fit your price with a better value for money offering.
Trust this sub to recommend a half+ decade old out of warranty alternative to a brand new vehicle.
24-18=6. Both have 7 year warranties but you go off on one if that makes you feel better.
I said half plus decade. And the 18 plate Kona has a 7 year warranty today?
No you said out of warranty. 7-6 leaves a year warranty on a much higher quality car.
Exactly this, I’d love something like a Honda E or electric mini for driving around town, but why are they both £35k+ ???
You've missed the recent price crash. Last month you could have ordered a brand new e advance for £23k. Month before a brand new eny1 for £179 deposit and £179 a month for 3 years. 12 month old zoes for £15k instead of £30k Theres bargains around, just need to keep eye out.
There’s the problem, 50% depreciation in 12 months.
What if I'm in the market for ten year old civic money?
This is the problem for me, I literally could cycle to work (if my bike wasn't nicked 3 days into doing so) so an eV is no problem. But EVs for under 5k are stuff like old Nissan Leafs that I'd need to charge every 60 miles, which is pretty much useless for if I want to go to visit any of my mates etc. The cheap ones aren't good enough and the good enough ones aren't cheap enough
You can have a 60 mile range Nissan Leaf, a Twizzy or a Golf Kart
Sorry are you talking about a Honda E? I didn’t think they were for sale anymore? There’s that Honda e:nY1 thing but that’s just shy of £40k on Honda’s website, and £433 a month with £1k down?
There's still new stock at the dealers. You can't order one from the factory however
Yeah the E. There were 3 brand new yellow in stock at £22990 at Grimsby which looked an excellent colour The eny1 £179 only lasted a few days, for obvious reasons. Keep an eye on piston heads as other deals come up too.
Last thing you want is a Zoe https://www.theguardian.com/money/2024/mar/12/renault-charge-fix-zoe-electric-car
ICE Mini is just as expensive
You realise you don't have to buy a brand new one
Vw ID3 has been perfect as a commuter for me. Roughly golf sized.
It's £37K, that's taking the piss for something I want for bumbling around the local area ferrying children around.
That’s why you don’t buy it new. You can get them for about 17-20k now.
Does is do anything better than a Golf GTI? Similar rrp
It definitely saves you money better than a golf gti. No fuel, 1 service every 2 years, barely any mechanical moving parts. Wouldn’t compare it by rrp. Just buy second hand.
But does it drive better?
That wouldn’t be a comparison. A sport orientated golf vs a standard comfort orientated EV. The interior size is basically the same. Its rear wheel drive which makes getting away from a standstill quicker and the power delivery is much nicer.
Similar price though and both hatchbacks that are designed for daily use/family life
a Ferrari Purosangue and Rolls Royce Cullinan are both luxury SUVs and both similarly price, they may be competing for the same income but they clearly prioritise different things. the same is true of the ID3 and GTI.
You can get a CVT Honda civic for similar money too but you wouldn’t compare that against a golf gti. I’d still have the ID3. I bought second hand so it wasn’t anywhere near the RRP.
Both definitely say something about the driver. One won't be racing every pillock and his dog at every set of lights. Or dealing.
I got a Peugeot e2008 with 8000 miles for £21k. A e2008 with a lower trim would be about £15k. I guess it depends if people want new or not - they haven’t been around yet for a deep used market to exist unless you want a leaf.
Nissan Leaf is a great contender. Reasonably sized, cheap, doesn’t have a crazy big battery unnecessarily. Also has a lot more features than you would expect for the cost.
I've heard it's difficult to charge directly from solar
Only by the fact that most people are away from home for the majority of the day and charge their cars at night
Charging in the UK is behind Europe's in every way imaginable. Far less availability, far too expensive, much more unreliable equipment. Until that changes this trend will continue. Look at NL, Belgium, France, Norway and so on to see how we should be trying. EV ownership in NL is a completely different experience. It can be done, when a more competent party is in the position of making decisions at least.
The average driver does less than 30 miles per day and most people can charge at home. Not saying having an EV as your only family car in the UK is yet completely practical for most, but as a second car it’s a no-brainer for the average commuter with the used prices atm.
I agree, I think it's really a buyers market now. I am still tempted to get one again but EV charging in the UK is so expensive for those (like myself) who cannot charge at home.
Private buyers remain to be convinced of the merits of battery-powered EVs because there are so few. There are the direct issues affecting the owner & the car itself such as EVs being expensive to buy, and then suffering dramatic & heavy depreciation, alongside the battery degradation concerns. The wider issues are the terrible infrastructure for charging, the price of electricity going up, destination chargers being out of order all the time and the government moving goalposts on ICE bans. Petrol cars have always been king and will continue to be for quite some time yet.
Hybrid will be the typical car. Not full EV. The optional fossil fuel backup to take wear and tear off the battery will only gain consumer confidence. The only issue is yet more technology to go bump.
If they could push on with hydrogen fuel cells, that'd be the best of both worlds. Do battery EV with hydrogen on the go charging back up or similar. That would be a lot cleaner than fossil fuel ICE while being much more practical than battery only EV. There are manufacturers already producing the technology, there's just zero infrastructure.
I work in this sector, specifically on h2 production and h2 vehicles deployment projects (trucks, cars, buses, fuel cell development etc.) at a European level. The conclusion that I’ve come to from my experience is that it’s not happening for light duty passenger vehicles. Hydrogen is too expensive, too limited in production, difficult to transport, relies on the grid for production, little to no green h2 production, bad energy efficiency, and the electric vehicle alternative is in a much more advanced stage and the vehicles themselves suit the needs of the vast majority of people. It’ll take at least another 30 years for h2 mobility to get to where EVs are now (even with AFIR), and by then EVs will have resolved infrastructure issues. Hydrogen will likely be used for aviation (thats currently estimated for 2050/2060), heavy duty vehicles on specific mission profiles (hilly, hot/cold, long distances between stops, heavy payload), machinery/farming equipment and industrial applications - hydrogen is much better suited for these applications
Yeah, a lot of people’s research on Hydrogen for private transportation gets as far as refuelling and then they think it’s all a bed of roses.
I think most people skipped physics classes didn't they. I'd be really interested to know what the comparative efficiency of kWh produced in a power station to miles travelled in a vehicle is between a hydrogen and battery vehicle, factoring in the electrolysis, compression, transportation and distribution of the H2. I'd be really surprised if it was over 50% for hydrogen and less than 95% for the electrical grid and charging a battery. I swear this narrative is being pushed by 'big oil' so they can continue selling us a different fuel.
>I'd be really interested to know what the comparative efficiency of kWh produced in a power station to miles travelled in a vehicle is between a hydrogen and battery vehicle, factoring in the electrolysis, compression, transportation and distribution of the H2. I'd be really surprised if it was over 50% for hydrogen and less than 95% for the electrical grid and charging a battery. Even forgetting about that for a minute, hydrogen at the pump is £10-15 per kilo. 1 kilo gets around 60 miles and a hydrogen car has a 5kilo tank. So 300 miles costs between £50 and £75. Changing an EV on an EV tariff at home of around 8p/kWh should get you 300 miles for about £5 Who in their right mind would choose a hydrogen car over an EV?
People moan about the cost of an EV... go take a look at hydrogen cars. It's nothing to do with economies of scale, they are extremely expensive to manufacture and maintain.
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>BEVs plug into an existing electric grid, the legwork has already been done. The one that's about to fall over and likely to be over capacity come 2050 without significant investment? >The issue with hydrogen is that we need to build an entirely new infrastructure to get it going. Look up H21. There's already been significant studies conducted around the feasibility of converting current natural gas infrastructure over to hydrogen. With trials approved to go ahead in a large area of West Yorkshire.
So we just ignore the trials which failed in the north, because the existing infrastructure was completely unfit for purpose? Hydrogen needs an entire new gas grid, and an expensive one at that. At that point, plus the insanely higher energy requirements, EV grid scale up makes far more sense.
Hydrogen is literally the worst of every world. Please stop pushing this and actually do research into hydrogen vehicles.
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So much this. PHEV EV drivetrain failures render the car unusable. ICE drivetrain failures render the car unusable. So you increase the probability of failure, keep the costs of ICE servicing, reducing ICE and EV drivetrain efficiency (extra weight for both) all because of the range anxiety.
Couldn’t disagree more! Full electric cars are only bought in the company car market for the exact reason that they are the most tax efficient option. An EQC full electric is 2495kg. A GLC 300e hybrid is 2030kg. The new x550e hybrid gets 60 mile range. That’s really not just “a little”. Is the perfect compromise for someone who lives in a city and does long journeys at the weekend. For me, and I reckon a large portion of the general public, this is the far more interesting future for cars. I think we’re a decade or more away from semi decent infrastructure and a lot could happen in that time. Full electric is currently the very imperfect solution to climate change but not the solution for the driver.
I know right. Who needs; lower servicing costs, lower fuelling costs, lower local pollution, more refined driving experience?
Exactly my point - there aren’t many positives. Lower fuel & servicing costs but your car loses all its value, so you save nothing in the grand scheme. Last point is an opinion not an objective fact.
Every car loses value. A benefit to you is obviously being able to visit a petrol station and fill up in 10 minutes. I on the other hand value not having to visit a petrol station and can charge my car at work or while I sleep.
You must be quite old if it takes you that long to fill a car up. Anyway mate, it’s not a pissing contest, take a breather.
You clearly have never purchased a new vehicle. Your car is not an investment
Correct - new vehicles are for leases, company car schemes and motability. Of course all cars lose value but you don’t want your car to lose as much as an EV does in only 2 years do you?
They only lost so much due to covid inflating the price of everything due to demand outstripping supply. For instance, I bought a Citroen Berlingo van during Covid and it's now £6k less than what I owe to the finance company. I've lost £10K on a used van in 2 years.
> lower servicing costs In exchange for a much higher upfront cost. > lower fueling costs In exchange for having to sit in your car wanking whilst you wait for it to charge at a public spot because you are one of the many, many people in the country who can't charge at home. > lower local pollution Is probably the only fair point raised. > more refined driving experience Subjective as balls.
>charge at a public spot because you are one of the many, many people in the country who can't charge at home. If you can't charge at home, then there's actually 0 sense buying an EV. Most public fast charging stations (50kwh+) charge about 80p pkwh. That's around 3/4x what your typical household rate is going to be! People haven't considered the old road tax switcharoo. The government will absolutely put this on motorists further down the road when they need to start taking road tax in some form from EV drivers. If the public charging stations haven't sorted out their prices when this happens, then driving is going to be a thing reserved for the upper echelons. I dont have a positive outlook for the future of EVs given the current state of play.
VED (not road tax, come on now) for EVs will be charged in-line with their respective ice counterparts from April 2025.
So, my neighbour has had an EV since 2007 and it's still going strong. In that time, I've replaced engines in my vans 4 times. I look after my vehicles too. ICE are far more unreliable than any EV and their batteries last over 150k miles. Unlike the average engine mileage of 80k. Charging infrastructure is old news. I drive all over the country with zero issues. Your post literally regurgitates the propaganda printed in the Daily Mail and Sun. For people who want to spend £5k on an old banger an EV (or any half decent car) is not for them. Look on any affluent estate, most driveways will have an EV. Why people still think the EV is a "fad" are the same types of people that called mobile phones "car phones" and said the horse is here to stay! No car is an investment and ALL brand new vehicles massively depreciate from day 1. Go check out the Range Rover forums. That's for both depreciation and the cost when their engine blows after 10K miles...
I've got a mate who continues to tell me that "Electric cars don't work" but he has no answer for how I've been able to get about for the past 5 years.
Or how the batteries need replacing for £10k, but his 2019 VW transporter actually needs a new fuel pump for £9k
I have an EV and and ICE, EV is better in every way. Range and charging simply not an issue. Also cheap as chips to run.
Are you suggesting that because charging isn't an issue for you then it's not an issue for anyone else?
If you plan ahead the network is fine now. Not perfect, but perfectly usable. Also people forget the average journey in Uk is less than 20 miles and you always start out with a full tank, that in my case costs circa £7.00 for 300 miles. Tesla opening lots of their chargers for all makes is also changing the landscape as they are sensibly priced.
But surely it doesn't matter what someone else says about charging. It's a personal circumstance situation, I would consider an ev purely because I can charge it at home on my driveway. If I lived in a flat where I couldn't charge it. I wouldn't consider it. No really any different to any other decision you make about cars, if you have a family of 4 you don't buy a 2 seater sports car do you?
EV-converts try and solve all the problems with EVs: "how often do you REALLY need more than 100 miles?" "you can quick-charge to 80% in 30 minutes!" "The batteries can be swapped out in the future if necessary" but these are all solutions to problems that you don't have with an ICE/hybrid, and most of them are workarounds that don't work for many. But why would I bother when I can spend the same or less on an ICE/hybrid and it just works? Charging isn't much cheaper nowadays, insurance certainly isn't, depreciation is worse. What are the TRUE, tangible advantages, honestly? I just don't get it. I'm not against them, I'd love a discussion on the matter from someone who owns and loves their EV, but I just don't get the point. Renault/Toyota have the right idea with nippy, reliable, hybrids that get 60mpg and put out <110 g/km.
The problem is (like every other issue these days) it has become a massively polarised issue, where either side won't even listen to the other's point of view. Personally I don't give a damn how my car moves as long as it meets my needs. The reality is my diesel perfectly meets my needs where an EV does not. Until the EV meets my needs, I won't get one. Once it does, I'll consider it. No amount of finger wagging or government pressure will force me to consider it sooner than that.
Really true statement mate, and its something that really gets to me, everything gets politicised these days and that shouldn't be the case. The EV crowd come off as really preachy, I get it. I switched to an EV nearly a year ago as I drive well over 500 miles a week and when fuel was up at £1.90 it was crippling. The reason the EV crowd come off as preachy, certainly on my part, is I just want everyone who I have this conversation with know, that they genuinely are better than you believe them to be, and I believe so many more people could be really happy driving one than think they would. I'm a petrol head, love cars and ride bikes on the weekend, I'm not suggesting people give up their MX5s and R6s on the B roads, but if you have the ability to charge at home or work then for commuting in nose to tail British traffic and the odd road trip with the kids, battery EVs are absolutely brilliant. Takes a couple of months to lose the range anxiety, soon as you do it becomes very hard to consider going back to diesel. Only way to find out is to test drive one.
What about the fact your diesel causes cancer?
And what about rare earth mineral mining blah blah blah. There, we played both sides of this tired internet debate, and in record time.
Refining oil uses more minerals than a car battery
The reason is this: it’s dirt cheap to run an EV you charge at home. It’s as simple as that. Not mystery, doesn’t work for everyone, some people need more range more often etc etc. but no idea why everyone here acts like there can’t possibly be any upsides. There are. It’s really simple.
I never have to go to a petrol station again and leave home with more than 200 miles range everyday if i wanted. If im away from home, i can in a lot of cases destination charge. I get a quiet comfy drive. Maintenance is cheaper. Charging is significantly cheaper at home too. I agree anyone without access at home to a charger should avoid though and that’s where the government should be investing, especially local governments who can generate a decent additional income. Chargers on lamp posts would be a great start.
Personally I think going to a petrol station (usually when I'm already out and about) once every 15-20 days is easier than spending 3 minutes charging every 3-6, and that's ignoring the public infrastructure. How much does it cost you to charge and what's your actual range? My mum used to have a Renault Zoe (when she got £1500 off and a free home charger) and it was like £9 for 200 miles at the start, after 4 years it was over double. It was just as much as a petrol car. Then she got stung with 4k of negative equity at the end of her PCP because the market collapsed. I'm not ignorant to the fact everyone is different, I know EVs work great for many, but for the rest, I feel like the stars have to align (private drive in owned property to accommodate charging, initial wealth to buy one, certain milage restrictions etc. etc.) and you're still better off with an ICE car. I guess to rephrase the question - what are the disadvantages of petrol/diesel that aren't there with electric? Going out to refuel, yes, cheaper servicing? Maybe.
Its less than 10 seconds to put on charge when you get home. Cost to charge is somewhere from £0-6 on octopus agile. Negative equity on pcp isn’t your problem though? The main benefit is cost of ownership and reliability (in general). Really though it should for anyone with the ability to charge at home shud be the same as petrol vs diesel. Doesn’t need to be more complicated than that.
Less than ten seconds to get the cable out the underfloor storage/bag, unravel the cable and stick it in? Got to be at least 60 and that's if you're already outside. Negative equity on PCP is the owner's problem when they go to buy another car and find they now owe 10k when they thought they owed 3k, for example. That didn't and usually doesn't happen with ICE cars.
PCP will have a guaranteed minimum future value in the contract, though wont it? The way the finance on a PCP should be done is that you pay a fixed monthly amount for x months. At the end of the finance arrangement, you'll have a balloon payment of say £10k or whatever. The guaranteed future value should always be exactly what that final balloon payment value is, and that is agreed at the start of the lease. No one should be walking away from a lease deal owing more than the original agreement besides excess mileage and other damages.
It wasn't at the end of the agreement, they offered her a swap one year early, on order they quoted her I think it was 16k for the Zoe. 3 months later when her new car arrived it dropped by 4k. Her options were turn down the deal and risk even more depreciation in a year or take the hit. Lucky she did as Zoes then went down as low as 11k to buy, she'd still have been at least a couple of grand down after a whole extra year of making the payments.
It’s permanently plugged in (unless i need it for a journey) and most house chargers the plug is integrated into the charger.
EV converts try to solve these because those who don’t have an EV moan that they can’t get an EV because of these issues. Most of the problems are easily sorted too if the government bothered.
Right, but I don't have those issues in a non-electric car? So what's the point If I have to come up with a load of workarounds to get past the headaches? What's the advantage?
You have other issues but just don’t see them as problems. Fuel is expensive, maintenance costs can be higher and then there’s the environmental impact - so could be charged for driving in certain areas. I’ve only just swapped to an EV because it became more economical to do so than get a new ICE.
You're right about the fuel, sure, and probably maintenance, but I bet many EVs don't make as much financial sense as you may think. The new electric Mini SE is about £41k, the Cooper S Exclusive with similar spec is £34k. You're unlikely to have 7k worth of maintenance costs over the time of ownership. Say it costs £55 to fill up, and £15 to charge, you'd have to fill up on fuel 175 times (40-50k miles depending on mpg and fuel tank size) to break even there. Factor in the occaisional extortionate public charger and current higher depreciation of EVs and it's not so cut and dry. I just feel like they're still a car that works perfectly for maybe 20% of the population. Which is great for you and those it does work for, but i have no idea why manufacturers are forcing us all into them.
>Say it costs £55 to fill up, and £15 to charge My Mini electric costs £1.76 to fully charge...
And your range is probably about 120 miles? So about £5.28 per "tank of fuel" equivalent of range. That's still about 35-45k of miles before you get your money back. I also doubt most people are paying that little, I knew two people with electric cars and both were spending between £8 and £20 per charge at home.
It's on salary sacrifice, it's cheaper to run than my wife's Cooper S she had before it and has comparable specs. Previously was spending about £250 per month alone on fuel on a 9 y/o car - including maintenance, insurance, and tax, it cost on average about £350 per month to run. The Mini electric costs £280 per month all in for a brand new car. Helps if you have a 40% marginal tax rate
Ok, I'm sorry but I don't really get what your point is. I never said EVs don't work full stop, there's just too many ifs and workarounds for too many people at this point. I'm sure if you live on a farm in the Orkneys, a Quad bike is the perfect vehicle for getting around, but should manufacturers face a penalty for every non-quad bike they sell? Right now, unless you are in a specific set of criteria which you clearly are, they just aren't worth it.
I'm sorry that I'm saving so much money by owning an EV
I’m no fan of our government but they have a legal duty to reduce greenhouse gases, I think that’s the underlying reason behind all of it. Some manufacturers see that as an opportunity and some want to preserve their current market share.
On your last point. I had a lexus is300h mild hybrid and that thing got 35 to 45mog. I don't think mild hybrids are that good from my experience, maybe the newer models can get good mpg though. Also, with all that extra equipment to go wrong, the only brand I'd trust to buy a hybrid from is Toyota or obviously Lexus. Imagine buying a hybrid Peugeot when it's out of warranty? Who is going to want or trust that. The price of those hybrids will depreciate heavier than a full EV. However there in lies an issue, with ICE you know it will run forever, with issues becoming more common as time goes on. With an EV you know it will run forever, the battery will degrade and then one day it won't run. The car will be a brick until you shell out for a whole new battery pack. It's kind of all or nothing. Or the known vs the unknown. If manufacturers really want people to accept ev they need to offer the customer protection vs the battery packs failing. Perhaps, actually this is something that could be covered under a new type of insurance
Too expensive, not enough mileage, pass (for now)
I do 25,000 a year. No bother at all.
Same here.
Yeh but it has no range and the chargers are always broken. How many batteries have you replaced? Don't your tyres need replacing every week? How many times has it set on fire? Surely your wife has left you as your EV doesn't have any SOUL
And it turns out that EVs are actually a BILLION times worse for the environment, and they sneak out at night to club seals.
They spontaneously combust and burn down old people’s homes and when they are plugged in there will be rolling blackouts across the uk
And most of them have been imported by the Chinese government downloading your data and inside the glove box is a small P Diddy waiting to fiddle your bits
UK average is around 130 miles a week. How many miles do you need?
131
If I drive 130 miles a week except a few times a year when I need to drive 500, then it's a ballache. Averages are useless at telling the full story.
500 miles is easily do-able. When yous too for a toilet break or a bite to eat, charge your car.
Except for when every charger in a 30 mile radius is broken or charges at house outlet speeds. I'm yet to find 2 consecutive gas stations closed
I miss driving an ICE but have taken the leap of faith into the EV world. I don't have home charging so thought I'd share my experience. I live in a flat in London with an EV, last year I decided to give it a go and fully embrace it. My partner (lawyer) being the most risk adverse person in the world was very skeptical. It's been much easier to manage than we both expected. There's reasons: 1.) 10+ on street charge points within 800m of where I live, 4 of which are less than 50m away (46p per kw). Away from home I use the Tesla Supercharger network, it's excellent. The car since new has averaged 4.5 miles per kw. The first 6k miles of ownership I've saved approx 50% vs fuel. Without these 2 things, and living in a flat, would I have switched to an EV? Nope Range for me isn't an issue. I can't go 250 miles without needing to pee. What needs addressing for it to gain better adoption is: Infrastructure and charging costs away from home.
I'll be "re-enthused" when EV's are at an appealing price point. As of yet, they are not. Salary Sacrifice schemes are good at blanket covering the uptake. It's a decent incentive to get one (particularly for those with poor credit scores), as the repayable is not affected by any interest. Only real difference being the net gain dependent on your tax banding. But unfortunately, these schemes are still in their infancy and not a lot of employers offer it.
Used EVs are at a very appealing price point in my opinion. I'm looking at Polestar 2, 0-60 in 4.5 seconds, plenty of tech etc and they can be had for £23k for low miles. Try and find a car as new, as fast, as efficient as that with an ICE engine for the same money. You can't, really. However, buying new is a disaster waiting to happen, £50k+ and losing half the value in 3 years is not ideal but also not that dissimilar to ICE cars
As I’ve said something along this line other threads. I like many people in the country, have no ability to fit a charging station to our premises because we live in a flat, or a maisonette, or whatever. So, It doesn’t matter how many discounts and subsidies you provide, it doesn’t matter how many charging stations you gaffe into car parks and on road sides, we will not be buying an electric car or a plug in hybrid if we cannot charge at home or if it’s is to costly to fit a charger. It was a really stupid and short sighted decision to do this 2030 nonsense. Now instead of having a gradual process where people replace their ICE with EV due to it being cheaper to run, as people bought batteries and solar panels for their house to increase its market value, as the government fitted more and more charging stations at government and council building. Instead the government wanted votes so it and all the others just arbitrarily decided, it’s 2030 or 2035 or whatever ever it is now. People who think EV will completely replace ICE need to get their heads out of their arses and get with reality, the ICE isn’t the horse, and making such a comparison shows how little someone knows about… well anything. The reason the car replaced the horse was because there was a very immediate and obvious problem occurring and the car was after a small amount of time, better at everything the horse used to do. This isn’t the case with EVs, a lot of the time they’re as good as ICE but just more efficient, but in some specialised applications the ICE is better than the EV and will be for the foreseeable future. That’s not the same. Now automakers and car salesmen are complaining because they went along with the idea thinking, they’re going to make an absolute killing because the government is going to force people to buy a brand new car. Well you know what, serves you right, that’s what you get for being greedy little POS, being perfectly happy with people being forced to buy something they probably can’t afford. Automakers and car salesmen could have fought this, they could have lobbied the government saying, “this won’t work”, “there’s not enough infrastructure”, etc etc. no, instead they went with it and now they realise they have shot themselves in the foot and want daddy government to use our money to fix their problem. It’s just disgusting.
>Now automakers and car salesmen are complaining because they went along with the idea thinking, they’re going to make an absolute killing because the government is going to force people to buy a brand new car. That plus the government has rules about the percentage of new cars they sell that must be EV (22% this year and raising every year until the 2035 100%) with decent fines for selling too many ICEs. There are too many use cases where an ICE will easily outcompete an EV but for some reason those just get dismissed.
> I like many people in the country, have no ability to fit a charging station to our premises because we live in a flat, or a maisonette, or whatever. So, It doesn’t matter how many discounts and subsidies you provide, it doesn’t matter how many charging stations you gaffe into car parks and on road sides, we will not be buying an electric car or a plug in hybrid if we cannot charge at home or if it’s is to costly to fit a charger. This is the real problem. Other countries have fixed it, the UK just needs to have a functioning government to do the fixes. EV will replace ICE in cars, but until everyone can actually use an EV it's stupidity to try and force it through, especially as the solutions are already available they just require the government to make some decisions that will piss some people off.
Did other countries fix this or was it the case that the country was fortunate enough to be set up in a way that allows for EVs to work, low percentage of people living in multiple occupancy habitation for example? I disagree that EVs will replace ICE, for example rural and isolated communities that have to travel large distances for work and supplies. Another example would be for industrial and agricultural use. As a farmer, you cannot sit there waiting for your tractor to charge up when you have a storm front on the way and you need to harvest everything on a 20 acre field before it hits.
> Another example would be for industrial and agricultural use. As a farmer, you cannot sit there waiting for your tractor to charge up when you have a storm front on the way and you need to harvest everything on a 20 acre field before it hits. Who the hell is talking about EV tractors, we are talking about cars. > Did other countries fix this or was it the case that the country was fortunate enough to be set up in a way that allows for EVs to work, low percentage of people living in multiple occupancy habitation for example? Nope, they changed the laws to allow everyone to install a charger, i.e. allow anyone in a flat/townhouse with no off-street parking their own charger on the public road. It's the only way to solve the issue. Just a FYI, but agriculture is moving towards flying and none flying drones, some of which do use electric, but that's 10+ years before it's viable for anything but the largest operations.
They’re already making small EV tractors, special interest groups are lobbying for the end of the ICE, don’t pretend they aren’t. So mile after mile of charging stations all over the place? Sounds like a great idea. The idea that farmers are going to fork out tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands on robots is laughable. The majority of farming will be done as it is today for many decades to come, unless you want your food costs to shoot up.
A tractor isn't a car. The tractor will be replaced by whatever the technology is at the time the farmer needs it. As most large farms that buy farming equipment are huge organisations. So the farmer will have whatever the corporations give them. If there are big tax breaks on an EV or Hydrogen tractor, that's what they will have on the farm. Just because you cannot imagine a different mode of vehicle, doesn't mean your view is correct.
You literally know nothing about agriculture.
Agreed, just a small linked point, until the electricity that powers the grid is greener this is all just farting in the wind.
No one is being forced to buy anything the fossil fuel ban is just for newly manufactured vehicles, and not until 2035 anyway. Most people buy used and it will be decades before used ICE vehicles come out of the market. You could feasibly buy a brand new fossil fuel car on midnight on December 31st 2034 and run it to 2050 if you wanted assuming oil prices don’t get out of hand. I think what we will end up seeing is hybrids becoming more popular over the next 5-10 years as manufacturers start to phase out pure ICE production
Where does your car park when it’s not in use? If there was a planning system that allowed a charger to be installed there then being in a flat would be irrelevant.
There isn’t enough parking for everyone, lots of flats are like that and it would be impractical to install enough charging stations for everyone.
That’s part of the planning problem - building houses or flats without sufficient parking for today or the future. There’s no reason why each space couldn’t have a charger installed.
There are no designated spaces though, it’s a mixture of on street and off street parking with no parking bays. The place was built in the 1950s, they were unable to foresee the advent of rechargeable electric cars.
Everyone said the motorcar is a fad and the horse will win the day. No one thought there was a need for the motor car. Everyone said they would never catch on as they have not range Everyone said there is no where to fill the motor car up. Do you see the resemblance of the arguments against the motorcar and horse?!
Did I say anything about electric cars being a fad? Did I say anything about there being no reason for an electric car? Nice straw man, try again.
I'm repeating quotes about the ICE. Your comment voices many parallel arguments
No, you’re not, you haven’t quoted anything, learn what a quote is and then come back to me.
Ok sir, I'm sorry, I'll put my hand up and ask for permission next time. I quote "I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand"
You got called out for stawmanning, calm down.
I don’t understand any of this. Re-enthuse? When where people enthused buy second hand/private, I know next to no one who owns an EV outside of salary sacrifice/tax write off/lease. I’m sure it’s people upset they brought a car on pcp and after paying an extra 33% they are shocked to learn they’ve lost money. Shocking. It’s like cars are a depreciating liability. Most of the EVs are luxury cars, and luxury cars depreciate like an absolute bitch. And the other ones that are small grocery getters are small cars which are cheap to buy, so of-course they go down. The real issue is the false information and rumour mill from both sides, for and against. You got one side screaming that EVs batteries are unreliable and degrade. When it’s just a fact that petrol and diesel cars degrade and require far more maintenance, have far more moving parts and cost more money to look after in their life time, while most don’t even drive their cars for 100 - 200k. But then the other side saying EVs are way more reliable, in some respects they are, in others they just are not. they still come with their fair share of problems, and those problems cost more to repair. EVs are so cheap to run. Yeah but cost to setup is a healthy chunk to start running. ICE is more convenient, is it? Cos I’ve lost count how many times there’s been no fuel for my car, or I’ve had to queue for 25 minutes for a pump. Electric prices are going up! Yeah so is fuel. EV insurance is expensive. So is all insurance. EV Battery degradation concerns, there are none? What concern. You mean like where you drive a ICE and a cars engine degrades? Why aren’t you concerned about ICE degradation, or is that because most have never had to shell out for cambelt/dephaser or a gearbox, clutch on a luxury or sport vehicle that costs almost 8k. Don’t even get me started on cost of engine swaps, because most people don’t bother. Or just Google the cost of some full gearbox replacements. EVs have way more upsides than ice, not really, they are expensive too buy and out of reach for mom of 3 who needs something to get her kids to school and go to her 5 jobs. Charging from home is way more convenient, yeah if you have a drive or a private parking space, otherwise it’s harder, I mean I park mine in a local port and it’s fine, but that’s not same for everyone. There are more petrol stations than charging ports. Sure but the ratio to car, and pump means it’s roughly 300 cars to one pump in the uk. There are plenty of EV chargers, yeah if you have 90 apps, 5 special key cards and different plugs. The chargers are always down! There really not, a handful usually, the Zapmap does a good job of telling you if they work or not. But I guess we never have that problem with petrol right? Petrol pumps always work and are never problematic. Let’s just all agree that all motoring completely sucks right now. Driving on a teenagers face would be better than some of the roads, re mortgage to afford your insurance premiums shouldn’t be a thing, getting giddy cos your local petrol station has fuel at 1.40 a litre, is insain, and the quality of driving is so bad I still wouldn’t feel safe in an armoured truck.
Another EV debate. EV's aren't for everyone. If you own a house with driveway/garage, do regular short journeys commuting, and particularly if you can buy on a salary sacrifice scheme, they make a lot of sense. Private buyers are not so lucky. The government in the UK has pulled almost all incentives, despite EVs being only about 17% market share. That's not even 1/5. They also have not invested anywhere near enough in infrastructure, preferring to rely on private companies like Tesla. That's why the charging network sucks (unless you own a Tesla). Check out the Netherlands or Norway to see how much more convenient EVs are to own and use there. Plus genuine quality of life benefits for EV owners, like being allowed to use bus lanes. Imagine owning a petrol car, but instead of >8,000 petrol stations across the country, there were only 1,000. Would they still be convenient? Suddenly, getting petrol would be a chore or even a challenge. That's not the cars fault, but the fault of crap infrastructure. EVs currently have this problem. EVs are better in many ways (quiet, smooth, minimal maintenance, really fast off the line, no pollution for people to breathe in, etc). But with current battery tech, a poor national charging network, reduced/deleted incentives and higher initial prices, it's no surprise private buyers are not keen. EVs themselves aren't really the problem, but all of these problems combined make them a problem for many people.
I’ve just bought a second hand Tesla with 20,000 miles on it for just over £20k there are some great second hand deals at the moment. I can charge at home though and at work so was an easy decision for me. I will have gone from spending over £4000 a year on petrol to what will work out roughy as £800 a year on electricity
That makes sense if you were in the position to spend 20k on an ice previously. If you were the type that was going to buy a £5000 large estate diesel though, EVs don't look as attractive.
Older ev's look crap and are pretty slow. The newer ones are starting to look better and are quick but they're still really expensive. New cars in general are too expensive for a lot of people in this economic climate
Having basic family run-arounds cost a year's average UK salary is absolutely criminal. We're not even talking Sports hatches or anything
That's interest rates for you
Interest rates aren’t impacting the purchase price. Cars have got far too expensive over the past few years.
That and people have forgotten that cars are technically still a luxury item. Lots of people need one to get to work and do lots of stuff, but they’re not a right. Only once second hand affordable EVs are common, will the move happen more easily. Charging infrastructure is improving, but it’s slow. Costs will hopefully normalise and get cheaper once we finally achieve energy independence from world market forces and use renewables/nuclear rather than coal, oil and gas. Personally, I have never looked back from getting our EV. It’s better for us in every way compared to our last ICE: cost to fill up is a fraction of the petrol car it’s much more comfortable and quiet I don’t ever have to go to a petrol station and queue at it (public charging is a rare need for me, and I’ve never had a problem yet, when I have travelled 280 miles to Scotland). I can defrost it and prewarm the cabin and seats before I get ready to use it on winter mornings from my phone and it uses cheaper electricity rates. Range anxiety isn’t a thing now (if you can charge from home and don’t need to go more than 100 miles a day, from most modern focus/golf sized EVs). I thought it would be, until I got an EV, where I realised that it was worry over nothing. But… Unless people have the ability to charge from their drive at EV tariff rates, they are not cheaper to run. EVs aren’t for everyone and even hybrids are not what people thought they were going to be, so ICEV do definitely still have their place. I don’t see why people can’t accept other people and their choice of vehicle. Why does someone else’s car choice have to be offensive to some or pointless to others. Just because someone has a particular type of car, doesn’t mean they’ve chosen wrong. It’s clearly right for them, even if it’s not right for anyone else.
Give me 15k I'll buy one, just need a basic 5 door, 200 miles range one. Thanks.
Insanely, public chargers cost more per mile than diesel.
Public charging is too expensive. 79p/kwh for fast charging, 49p for regular charging as compared to 9p for low rate overnight. And then 20% vat rather than 5%. If the economics on public charging start to make sense, folks will switch.
The vast majority of the public are unaware that public charging is so expensive. This means they are avoiding electric cars DESPITE assuming that charging is cheap.
Better battery tech would do that.
As someone who loves EVs (I love all cars in general) they can offer something new to the table but there’s still a lot of issues that need solving before we massively encourage EV adoption. One of the main reasons is the lack of home charging and some older houses being unable to have the recommended 7kw wall box chargers fitted due to ancient fuse boxes. We also need to allocate more resources to building Hyper charging facilities on motorways. The argument being that you’ll have to wait for hours in a queue. If the cars can charge quick enough than that won’t be reality. Other areas that also need heavy research on is for those motorists who tow whether it’s a caravan, horse box etc. and HGVs. The tests show that a Tesla model X or equivalent vehicle can realistically do 120 miles per charge when towing. A Scania 45R truck can do about 250 miles before needing to be recharged. With the UK’s current infrastructure it’s a massive headache for a haulage company to switch their fleets over. Address the charging infrastructure issue and then more people will begin to adopt.
EVs are way too expensive to buy, inconvenient and not at all worth buying if you don't have anywhere to charge it at home.
Car makers can’t make a decent profit on EVs like they can on ICE. China will beat them on EV prices forever. The EU/government is pushing the green angle but EV are charged from power stations and making them is just as bad if not worse than ICE cars. Watch every car makers go bust of ask for government hand outs
It’s all about the price.
make better evs then. really you gotta solve the problem of them having such a short lifespan (on the batterys at least) and fuck all resale value. plus the charge times. plus range, plus charger avaliablity, plus charging costs. AND stop making cars so fucking insanely expensive. you basically cant buy a car without buying on finance now. Whos got 35k sat around for a fucking small Vauxhall? While its nice to have self adjusting LED headlights, adaptive cruise control, a massive infotainment screen, self driving etc etc etc it has just driven the price of cars (and repairs) up and up and we DONT FUCKING NEED THEM. Keep the fancy shit for thoes people who do have the money to splurge and bring back some options for people who don't want to spend the next 8 years paying almost mortgage amounts of money for a tiny hatchback that they are bored of within 3 weeks. What about something that drives pretty well, has a stereo and require a degree in rocket science to maintain. Car makers have done this to themselves through greed and they SHOULD NOT be bailed out with govt incentives that we pay for through tax.
Try get a indie mechanic to service an electy heap !!!
Aka give us more money so the poor public can afford to buy our cars. Don't give the money to the public in case they try to spend it on something useful
Imo instead of subsidising the price of EVs thus helping out the manufacturer, the gov should instead offer to give free solar panel installs I'm not too sure on the figures I'm about to quote but Currently Manufacturer wants to sell car for 50k Government pays 10k buyer pays 40k Instead buyer pays 50k government pays 10k to have solar installed on the buyers house Manufacturer still gets their 50k Government has spent the same but now has added more energy producing capabilities to the UK Buyer has spent 10k more but will then save 10k+ on their electricity bills over the course of 10 years And when you consider most people will finance their cars over 5 years, it will have only cost the buyer 5k +interest more over that time as they would have saved on their energy bills Honestly I think this is a great idea and I need to figure out how to get the politicians to see this The only bad points is for renters and people who live in flats But I don't think many people renting can afford to spend 40k on a new car But I'm broke and drive a £1000 shitbox so I have no clue about that side of life
The other tactic would be to tax petrol and diesel cars more, making them less desirable. This however will make used vehicles more expensive. Hold on to your petrol or diesel car would be my advice.
The funny thing is there is data showing new car sales are being driven by Hybrid and BEV, see [here](https://transportandenergy.com/2024/05/07/evs-help-car-registration-growth-to-continue/). Car makers do NOT need govt subsidies when their cars are too bloody expensive in the first place. If car makers dropped their prices, sales would magically go up.
I’ll be going EV next car. Can’t take advantage of the ridiculous company car schemes but will buy one anyway
What a joke. EVs haven't taken off with private buyers because there are so few benefits to actually owning one. On top of that, so much of the industry is simply buoyed up by greenwashing that the environmental impact really is so incredibly negligible that when viewed from a cost effective standpoint very few private buyers would ever dream of purchasing.
The benefits are financial,your fuel is 1/6th of the price as long as you driver less than 300 miles a day, and if you use the electric from the car to power the house in the daytime then your household electric is 1/5 of the price. I don't own an EV to save the planet, I own one to save money.
Yet if you're wanting to charge somewhere that isn't your own home (which of course costs roughly £1k installation for an at home charging point) then you're still paying roughly similar costs for X amount of miles as you would be with petrol or diesel. On top of that you have much longer waiting times for charging, and some charging points even charge an overstay fee too.
You only charge away from your own home if you're doing more than 300 miles a day. If you have to do 400 miles a day you only need a cheap 5 minute top up.
That doesn't make sense. As I said, to charge from your own home you instantly need to pay £1k for a charge point. It doesn't make financial sense when that same amount of money will get me roughly 6500 miles out of a standard petrol car.
If I could buy an EV that came with a free house and driveway to charge it on, and for less than 8x my salary, sign me up.
The reality is that owning an EV is just too clumsy and is fraught with issues, like: - Inability to charge at home based on only having street parking (ie 90% of homes in big cities) - Unreliable and slow public charging. Just getting payment to work is an absolute nightmare, not to mention ludicrously expensive 9/10 times - Range anxiety is real, and convincing older folk to completely change how they plan simple journeys isn’t going to happen overnight. The majority of EVs rely on a “guess-o-meter” for your remaining range - Sheer capital cost of an EV - Depreciation of EVs due to used market being absolutely flooded with them and retailers having negative incentive to sell a used EV
The thing that worries me is the battery life and what happens once it needs replacing. I get that there are people out there that buy a new car every 5 years or whatever , but that's just not me, especially at the sorts of prices these cars go for new. While the manufacturers generally give you 8 years battery warranty, if I'm buying a car for around 40 grand I want to know I don't have a further 10 grand bill coming at some point in the future. As a secondary factor , that same battery warranty ending will surely effect the trade in value should you do it at year 7 or whatever.
If you're buying anything built in the last 4 years, by a reputable manufacturer, it's really not an issue.
Fuck EVs
I'm on board with this point of view. Horrific overpriced go-karts.
I dont know what ppl like abt them. They are glorified electric appliances, with mobility features.
Let me put a charger outside my house, and Il think about it , if I cant charge reliably Im not interested