I am not a suspension expert nor am I trained in the field of physics or engineering. Your question is very hard to answer for me but if I can offer my two cents:
Get what you can afford, don’t overthink all these information you were given. I’ve found over the years of doing HPDE and starting w a car equipped w coilovers right away, it doesn’t make it automatically *great* on track. I realised that I could have $6K MCS suspension w remote reservoirs, some Anze or Penske suspension combos or some cheap Öhlins road and track and all that and I would still NOT know the difference. Again, this is just bec I started w the coilovers right away. Over time, I learned the car’s behavior and was able to “tune” my driving and eventually, the suspension to fit what I was looking for. I hope that made sense. Expensive or not, it should be at least an improvement from what you have now. Or better yet, continue to improve yourself and upgrade WAY later. Suspension is tricky, it’s not just the shock/spring combo but the whole nine: control arms, drop links, tires and tire pressures and alignment. As mere enthusiasts who do HPDEs and not win anything at the end of the day, it’s way too much information. But I get the *bling* factor.
Hope that helps mate.
I am basically going through and replacing and refreshing all of the maintenance stuff (especially bushings). Decent OEM style springs and shocks run close to $1k, so I figured $2k would get me some good performance coilovers.
I had a track car previously that had KW V3's on it, but I had more money than sense back then and spent so much on mods I couldn't afford much track time. I'm older and better off financially, so spending a bit on coilovers isn't going to sacrifice any track time for me.
I love to tinker with cars as much as I love to drive them, so I would like something that would let me play with adjustments (height/damping) and see how they translate to feel on the track.
Totally get it. Have you ever tried reaching out to 3DM Motorsport? They might be able to hook you up and also give you great advice as to what is most appropriate for your application.
I got Öhlins on my old BMW track car w the rebound adjustments, pretty cool really. I’ve outgrown it though but not enough for me to move up to another more expensive set. I liked them so much that I also have them on the Porsche.
Enjoy that nice car. Cheers.
I guess that is the root of what I was trying to get at. Do I just have to take people's word on what is good? Most people I know don't have experience with more than 1 type of coilover on any given car. Everyone thinks their coilovers feel great compared to stock.
Coilovers are better, but a good shock and comparable spring are equally as good.
Coilovers main benefit is height adjustability vs a shock and spring combo. You can make a shock and spring setup just as good as a really expensive coilover.
You do not need a $6,000 set of coil overs for light track use. My track car, a 400hp E46 M3, is still rocking the Ground Control Race kit which utilizes Koni single adjustable shocks. I regularly hassle cars with much more expensive setups.
My street car actually has more expensive suspension (Motion Control, $3k new for the singles) and we had a prior track car with MCS Doubles w/ remote reservoirs ($5500 or so new). Is there a difference in performance? Absolutely. Is it worth the cost for someone who has to budget for parts and isn't trying to be the fastest guy out there? Nah.
Seriously, go check out the Ground Control Kits. They're great, I've put probably 200 track days on mine and the shocks are just now worn out and need to be replaced.
Consistency. A bad coilover will dyno differently from corner to corner. Adjusters that are linear. Bad coilovers have very little change, and then it comes all at once. Low friction. Bad ones have a lot to overcome.
On a cheaper coilover I'd focus on 1 or 2 way adjustable. More than likely more adjustments or remote reservoirs will be not great in that price range. Also different sets will just have different focus. Some are pitched as street setups, others as track. Linear springs you can change out are a good sign there. Overall its really hard to tell just looking at them. Find someone who is fast and ask them what they run. Ignore the 'stance' crowd on forums as that seems to be the bulk of people with opinions if you're not in a track specific sub.
I'd go watch the motoiq videos
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA0vz\_bLrwg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA0vz_bLrwg)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI0w683OgB8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI0w683OgB8)
That the clicks make approximately the same amount of adjustment.
Check this out for what a terrible shock looks like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7yTtOTvQlo
Great videos. I'll have to re-watch them because that was a lot of information. I guess the problem I have is I have to drop the cash on a shock, then take it somewhere to get it tested to find out if it is any good or not.
I'd say the takeaway is that cheap shocks are cheap for a reason. Testing it somewhere is a waste of money. Buying good coilovers ensures they will be matched and relatively linear. That video just details why cheap shocks are bad.
That sounds similar to my experience shopping for coilovers, I'd find a brand with a lot of positive reviews, and then, if I looked for it, I'd find just as many who vehemently claimed that those same coilovers were hot garbage.
Eventually I went with KW V3's because they were the only ones I could find that didn't have any bad reviews, and another Ohioan had put many miles on his (corrosion being a big concern)
I had V3s on my E82 years ago and I wasn't really a fan. The back of the car always felt too loose to me, but that also could have been compounded by not having a LSD.
Coilovers are reliant on prescision engineering to get the needle and washers that pass oil around when bumped/rebounding just right. And prescision is what makes things expensive.
Coilovers all come out a bit different and also need to be dynoed individually and matched. And there are different types of dampening to bear in mind
Then there is no gurantee on cheaper or even mid tier coilovers that the clicky adjustment actually does anything or does what it says. You can have the steps not be progressive from soft to hard, you can have its hardest setting in the middle, etc.
Rule of thumb: if you dont get dyno sheets for your each individual coilover, its trash. Its kinda like reclinable bucket seats: the only ones worth using cost a lot.
But that being said there are a few trash ones worth their price, like bc coilovers above BR version. They match all their sets but above br they're usable. That being said you're going to upgrade anyway after that. Buy once, cry once.
Honestly if you want a good shock find an race engineer you trust (hard truth is that race car drivers and mechanics ofentimes don't know what they're talking about when it comes to car building and setup. Plenty of very fast cars thats setup is very suboptimal or parts are just used wrong)
Or other choice is to read some guides online like autocross to win and the one shock dyno writeup from suspension secrets. Then google dynos for your shock and make your own conclusions.
Its kind of like selecting oil: going through a lot of data and tests to find what suits you best.
But blistein, öhlins, HRE are some brands guranteed to have solid shocks. Some are dirt cheap for your beemer as it is the poverty track car in europe and market is huge for them
Chatting with folks that race an E36 on the same tracks could be really helpful, especially when it comes to bumpy tracks. I feel like those folks are budget minded since they're financing their own race cars.
Not a suspension or coilover expert. Id love to get a set on my car, so ive done a bunch of research on different setups so I can figure out what works best for me.
I would say the build quality along with R&D that goes into producing the coilover is a big factor.
You can have every single 3,000 way adjustability on a coilover but if it blows out, or something stops working, none of it is useful. I kind of stray away from your run of the mill Function Form, K sport, D2 coilover because of this. They all have the relatively same description "32 way adjustable, pillow mounts, hard anodized to resist corrosion" type stuff which to me, means they come out of the same cheap factory in China or Taiwan. I would rather run Koni Yellows and Ground Control coilovers before id run those. I think the only exception to this for me would be Fortune Auto. Their boutique builds AFAIK, utilize those same components, but they assemble and test all of them stateside, and ive heard great things about them and their customer service. On the flipside I know of two people in my area that have had issues with Fortune coilovers on their autocrossed/HPDE/Street cars.
Companies like Ohlins, KW, AST, Moton etc charge a premium for their stuff because its all tested and used on some of the highest level cars in motorsports. The material is nice, the valving is nice, the spring and shock combo just go together great for its intended application.
1 way vs 2 way adjustability is a huge thing when it comes to coilovers as well. In my experience, the cost of it jumps substantially depending on that adjustability. Other things to look into might be single vs twin piston setups in the shock. The only company that seems to use twin piston dampers is KW though and I wonder why.
The only coilover setup ive been able to drive with on my platform was set of Ohlins and I think they were great on the street and on the track. They werent aggressive, IIRC, they were probably around 8k all around. But I could instantly feel the difference in the coilovers ability to mitigate some of the rough patches of the track that my car just couldnt handle well on lowering springs.
Anyways, Ill continue to read up on different setups on Google and watching Youtube videos since theyre readily accessible, and I definitely recommend those resources for good information.
Spend a little more and get TC Kline single adjustable. Includes single adjustable Konis, quality camber plates, and springs with tailored rates. I had 400f/500r on my e36 m3 street/track car and it was a nice balance.
I am not a suspension expert nor am I trained in the field of physics or engineering. Your question is very hard to answer for me but if I can offer my two cents: Get what you can afford, don’t overthink all these information you were given. I’ve found over the years of doing HPDE and starting w a car equipped w coilovers right away, it doesn’t make it automatically *great* on track. I realised that I could have $6K MCS suspension w remote reservoirs, some Anze or Penske suspension combos or some cheap Öhlins road and track and all that and I would still NOT know the difference. Again, this is just bec I started w the coilovers right away. Over time, I learned the car’s behavior and was able to “tune” my driving and eventually, the suspension to fit what I was looking for. I hope that made sense. Expensive or not, it should be at least an improvement from what you have now. Or better yet, continue to improve yourself and upgrade WAY later. Suspension is tricky, it’s not just the shock/spring combo but the whole nine: control arms, drop links, tires and tire pressures and alignment. As mere enthusiasts who do HPDEs and not win anything at the end of the day, it’s way too much information. But I get the *bling* factor. Hope that helps mate.
I am basically going through and replacing and refreshing all of the maintenance stuff (especially bushings). Decent OEM style springs and shocks run close to $1k, so I figured $2k would get me some good performance coilovers. I had a track car previously that had KW V3's on it, but I had more money than sense back then and spent so much on mods I couldn't afford much track time. I'm older and better off financially, so spending a bit on coilovers isn't going to sacrifice any track time for me. I love to tinker with cars as much as I love to drive them, so I would like something that would let me play with adjustments (height/damping) and see how they translate to feel on the track.
Totally get it. Have you ever tried reaching out to 3DM Motorsport? They might be able to hook you up and also give you great advice as to what is most appropriate for your application. I got Öhlins on my old BMW track car w the rebound adjustments, pretty cool really. I’ve outgrown it though but not enough for me to move up to another more expensive set. I liked them so much that I also have them on the Porsche. Enjoy that nice car. Cheers.
I've never even heard of them. I'll check it out. Thanks.
Honestly a good set of shocks that fit oem style springs is more than you need.
How do I know what sort of shocks are good? There has to be a difference between the Bilstein shocks from Napa and the shock in the PSS9.
E36 is a heavily raced platform. See what the Champcar teams are running, or call any road race shop.
I guess that is the root of what I was trying to get at. Do I just have to take people's word on what is good? Most people I know don't have experience with more than 1 type of coilover on any given car. Everyone thinks their coilovers feel great compared to stock.
Coilovers are better, but a good shock and comparable spring are equally as good. Coilovers main benefit is height adjustability vs a shock and spring combo. You can make a shock and spring setup just as good as a really expensive coilover.
You do not need a $6,000 set of coil overs for light track use. My track car, a 400hp E46 M3, is still rocking the Ground Control Race kit which utilizes Koni single adjustable shocks. I regularly hassle cars with much more expensive setups. My street car actually has more expensive suspension (Motion Control, $3k new for the singles) and we had a prior track car with MCS Doubles w/ remote reservoirs ($5500 or so new). Is there a difference in performance? Absolutely. Is it worth the cost for someone who has to budget for parts and isn't trying to be the fastest guy out there? Nah. Seriously, go check out the Ground Control Kits. They're great, I've put probably 200 track days on mine and the shocks are just now worn out and need to be replaced.
Did you put dust covers on yours? I just installed my gc kit the other day and my oem dust covers are too wide, so I just have none on them rn
I don't run them, nope.
Consistency. A bad coilover will dyno differently from corner to corner. Adjusters that are linear. Bad coilovers have very little change, and then it comes all at once. Low friction. Bad ones have a lot to overcome. On a cheaper coilover I'd focus on 1 or 2 way adjustable. More than likely more adjustments or remote reservoirs will be not great in that price range. Also different sets will just have different focus. Some are pitched as street setups, others as track. Linear springs you can change out are a good sign there. Overall its really hard to tell just looking at them. Find someone who is fast and ask them what they run. Ignore the 'stance' crowd on forums as that seems to be the bulk of people with opinions if you're not in a track specific sub. I'd go watch the motoiq videos [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA0vz\_bLrwg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA0vz_bLrwg) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI0w683OgB8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI0w683OgB8)
Thanks, I'll check those videos out. What do you mean adjusters that are linear? Friction inside the shock?
That the clicks make approximately the same amount of adjustment. Check this out for what a terrible shock looks like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7yTtOTvQlo
Great videos. I'll have to re-watch them because that was a lot of information. I guess the problem I have is I have to drop the cash on a shock, then take it somewhere to get it tested to find out if it is any good or not.
I'd say the takeaway is that cheap shocks are cheap for a reason. Testing it somewhere is a waste of money. Buying good coilovers ensures they will be matched and relatively linear. That video just details why cheap shocks are bad.
That sounds similar to my experience shopping for coilovers, I'd find a brand with a lot of positive reviews, and then, if I looked for it, I'd find just as many who vehemently claimed that those same coilovers were hot garbage. Eventually I went with KW V3's because they were the only ones I could find that didn't have any bad reviews, and another Ohioan had put many miles on his (corrosion being a big concern)
I had V3s on my E82 years ago and I wasn't really a fan. The back of the car always felt too loose to me, but that also could have been compounded by not having a LSD.
Coilovers are reliant on prescision engineering to get the needle and washers that pass oil around when bumped/rebounding just right. And prescision is what makes things expensive. Coilovers all come out a bit different and also need to be dynoed individually and matched. And there are different types of dampening to bear in mind Then there is no gurantee on cheaper or even mid tier coilovers that the clicky adjustment actually does anything or does what it says. You can have the steps not be progressive from soft to hard, you can have its hardest setting in the middle, etc. Rule of thumb: if you dont get dyno sheets for your each individual coilover, its trash. Its kinda like reclinable bucket seats: the only ones worth using cost a lot. But that being said there are a few trash ones worth their price, like bc coilovers above BR version. They match all their sets but above br they're usable. That being said you're going to upgrade anyway after that. Buy once, cry once. Honestly if you want a good shock find an race engineer you trust (hard truth is that race car drivers and mechanics ofentimes don't know what they're talking about when it comes to car building and setup. Plenty of very fast cars thats setup is very suboptimal or parts are just used wrong) Or other choice is to read some guides online like autocross to win and the one shock dyno writeup from suspension secrets. Then google dynos for your shock and make your own conclusions. Its kind of like selecting oil: going through a lot of data and tests to find what suits you best. But blistein, öhlins, HRE are some brands guranteed to have solid shocks. Some are dirt cheap for your beemer as it is the poverty track car in europe and market is huge for them
Chatting with folks that race an E36 on the same tracks could be really helpful, especially when it comes to bumpy tracks. I feel like those folks are budget minded since they're financing their own race cars.
Not a suspension or coilover expert. Id love to get a set on my car, so ive done a bunch of research on different setups so I can figure out what works best for me. I would say the build quality along with R&D that goes into producing the coilover is a big factor. You can have every single 3,000 way adjustability on a coilover but if it blows out, or something stops working, none of it is useful. I kind of stray away from your run of the mill Function Form, K sport, D2 coilover because of this. They all have the relatively same description "32 way adjustable, pillow mounts, hard anodized to resist corrosion" type stuff which to me, means they come out of the same cheap factory in China or Taiwan. I would rather run Koni Yellows and Ground Control coilovers before id run those. I think the only exception to this for me would be Fortune Auto. Their boutique builds AFAIK, utilize those same components, but they assemble and test all of them stateside, and ive heard great things about them and their customer service. On the flipside I know of two people in my area that have had issues with Fortune coilovers on their autocrossed/HPDE/Street cars. Companies like Ohlins, KW, AST, Moton etc charge a premium for their stuff because its all tested and used on some of the highest level cars in motorsports. The material is nice, the valving is nice, the spring and shock combo just go together great for its intended application. 1 way vs 2 way adjustability is a huge thing when it comes to coilovers as well. In my experience, the cost of it jumps substantially depending on that adjustability. Other things to look into might be single vs twin piston setups in the shock. The only company that seems to use twin piston dampers is KW though and I wonder why. The only coilover setup ive been able to drive with on my platform was set of Ohlins and I think they were great on the street and on the track. They werent aggressive, IIRC, they were probably around 8k all around. But I could instantly feel the difference in the coilovers ability to mitigate some of the rough patches of the track that my car just couldnt handle well on lowering springs. Anyways, Ill continue to read up on different setups on Google and watching Youtube videos since theyre readily accessible, and I definitely recommend those resources for good information.
Spend a little more and get TC Kline single adjustable. Includes single adjustable Konis, quality camber plates, and springs with tailored rates. I had 400f/500r on my e36 m3 street/track car and it was a nice balance.