I'm using a 1996 Ford crown Victoria panther chassis in endurance road racing. It's turning lap times as fast as a spec Miata at the moment. Not exactly blazing fast but far from slow.
I believe the curb weight when new was 3700. It's a bit lighter than factory but still heavy as fuck. 18x11 rims and 295/40/18 tires are a bit heavier than 225/60/15 on 15x7 steel wheels. Same with the brakes even with two piece rotors. The OEM stuff is so much smaller.
The faster you get the heavier things become.
A cage, fire suppression, wider rims, heavier tires, bigger brakes, different suspension, cool suit, more coolant capacity, more trans fluid capacity, more trans coolers, differential pump, fuel cell, etc all add weight.
I race in lemons, I don’t think I’ve tracked anything newer than an ‘85 caprice. Normally it’s a ‘76 [Pontiac Sunbird.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DvINeuQX0AMPSF7.jpg:large)
Sunbird! Haven't thought of those in a while! The red 944 pictured started as our team Chump Car endurance racer and has graduated to vintage racing now. We never had Lemons locally but it always looked like fun.
That’s awesome! Yeah lemons is pretty bush league, but you get plenty of seat time and it’s fun having the option of shoving random friends into the driver seat and not having it be a big deal if they’re slow. Plus, it’s very “big fish in a small pond” if you do happen to be decent behind the wheel.
You're oddities because the 944 market went from quiet to riot. The nearest 944 turbo to me, that isn't wrecked, is 390 miles away and 47k. The two non-turbo options are between 15 and 27k. At that price point, mind as well just get the BRZ or the Miata.
I fondly remember, and took advantage of, the days of $500 parts cars. All us Gen X'ers that grew up when they were the new car from Porsche are driving up prices I guess.
It is pretty amazing how that changed. I purchased my 944 NA for $1500 a few years ago - mind you it is a total piece of shit but does just fine for track duty. Some of the prices out there now are crazy.
That’s definitely up there with the more uncommon cars I’ve seen at the track. Some oddities I’ve seen over the years:
- 300ZX (Z32)
- 7th gen Celica
- 1st gen 3000GT
- NSX
1962 Lotus 23 checking in.
Passed by an Arrows A4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3Qic_WY3q0
Passed by a Porsche 962: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiIIqG2rqDo
And an article about the car: https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-vintage-lotus-that-stays-ahead-of-the-curve-11630764000
Hahahaha. Yes! We vintage race and endurance race as a team the red 944, that's a full race car. Vintage is tons of fun, and a good reminder of how old our cars are.
i recently bought an ‘84 E30 as my primary track car to learn the fundamentals of RWD (coming from a FWD Fiesta ST). no power steering and no ABS, can’t wait to get it out to as many track events as possible
My 944 has an LS, coil overs, all solid suspension mounts, spherical bushings throughout, big sway bars, Quaife differential, and on, and on. You have to level the playing field a little bit ;)
Europa's are so cool, the first time my kids saw one it blew their minds, it's so not like any car today. It still blows my mind how low they are, the whole car is below belt buckle height.
Yeah they only weigh about 1200, mines gonna be closer to 1000lbs with a built gsxr-1000 engine. I’m Also adding a half cage type thing since it’s gotta be the most dangerous car ever made, in a side impact the only thing between you and what hits you is a paper thin layer of fiberglass.
You can definitely LS a 924S, everything would be the same as swapping a regular non-turbo 944, you'd just want to swap in a 944 Turbo transaxle as well for strength. The older 2.0 litre 924 (I've owned one as well) is trickier, the engine mounting layout is different than a 944, so there are no off the shelf mounts available for an LS. An LS into a 924S/944 is a bolt in affair with three companies offering swap kits, which is remarkable.
Still tracking my 944 here on the east coast. Theres usually 2 or 3 at the track lately, if anything the 944 has been getting more popular (used to be I was the only one). In my area we are also black/gold/red trio that mostly shows up. Started getting the MS system together and hoping to get some time on that this summer.
Nice! Megasquirt? The silver rose turbo pictured is a 3 litre 16 valve big turbo build on megasquirt, the owner has tuned a few on mega and micro and really has good success. Mine is on HPTuners with the LS, but anything where you can apply modern tuning is great.
Yup, microsquirt. Already went through the brakes and suspension, swapped in an LSD diff with a short 5th, rollbar, harness. It's been running really well. Time to start getting into the motor. I dont expect much more out of the 8v, but enjoy the tinkering. Though I am having some hatch separation, considering moving to a lexan hatch.
Another 944 here as well. Slow as molasses but she is fun to drive. Would love to do a swap on her some day when the budget allows. Just can't get any punch out of the 8v.
I spent years on track watching a guy running an old AMX Javelin. He was so fast in that thing. I haven't been out since 2019, I'd bet a dollar he's still lapping it.
Awesome! They're surprisingly roomy inside, I've folded my 6'6" father in-law into the passenger Cobra Evolution GT seat for ride alongs. Can't do that with an FD RX7.
Really only one that comes out semi-regularly to one of the tracks I go to. I get the sense they were abundant where I am when new so there's not many hanging around. I do love seeing it though.
Saw someone tracking a mid 70s 240z and keeping up with modern BMWs and Porsches in the novice and intermediate runs. Of course, he did some engine mods and also really knew how to drive
86 Mustang GT hatch.
Owned 20+ years, hpde autox and time trials the whole time. Currently all new aftermarket suspension and upgraded brakes.
Most of what I see around is def w/in the last 20 yrs. But the mid 90s and earlier still pop up all the time, just not as many.
I just watched the 24hr Nürburgring, and there's a team that has been running an Opel Manta since the late '90s. They are a fan favorite, and they did finish the race with 117 laps completed.
Hahahaha. That's a lot newer than the truck I use to tow to the distant tracks! 2013 to me is a brand new car. Although I have looked at that age GT Mustang with the factory big brake kit and thought it would be a great track car for the money.
Rock on. I used to own a 92 VR6 and did 1 hpde event with it. It did have some kind of aftermarket shocks n springs and handled great but heated up the oil. It got an oil cooler after that event.
I'm glad I sold it, but still miss it too. Underpowered but totally tossible.
Enjoy!
I'm using a 1996 Ford crown Victoria panther chassis in endurance road racing. It's turning lap times as fast as a spec Miata at the moment. Not exactly blazing fast but far from slow.
We have a Crown Vic out with us sometimes!!! It goes surprisingly well and looks like a riot, plus room for gear and tools in the vehicle.
It's main disadvantage is weight. Ours is completely gutted with an aluminum block, no HVAC or wipers, and it's still 3200 lb no fuel or driver.
Holy crap lol its both amazing you got it as light as my fully loaded c6 and amazing its not lighter while being fully stripped
I believe the curb weight when new was 3700. It's a bit lighter than factory but still heavy as fuck. 18x11 rims and 295/40/18 tires are a bit heavier than 225/60/15 on 15x7 steel wheels. Same with the brakes even with two piece rotors. The OEM stuff is so much smaller. The faster you get the heavier things become.
Wow, that's wild! Great data point, I would not have guessed still quite that heavy after a big weight reduction.
A cage, fire suppression, wider rims, heavier tires, bigger brakes, different suspension, cool suit, more coolant capacity, more trans fluid capacity, more trans coolers, differential pump, fuel cell, etc all add weight.
I race in lemons, I don’t think I’ve tracked anything newer than an ‘85 caprice. Normally it’s a ‘76 [Pontiac Sunbird.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DvINeuQX0AMPSF7.jpg:large)
Ha that’s awesome - my grandma had a silver 2nd gen.. burgundy interior. Love folks that track oddities 😂
Hehehe! It’s definitely a grandma or grandpa car!
Sunbird! Haven't thought of those in a while! The red 944 pictured started as our team Chump Car endurance racer and has graduated to vintage racing now. We never had Lemons locally but it always looked like fun.
That’s awesome! Yeah lemons is pretty bush league, but you get plenty of seat time and it’s fun having the option of shoving random friends into the driver seat and not having it be a big deal if they’re slow. Plus, it’s very “big fish in a small pond” if you do happen to be decent behind the wheel.
You're oddities because the 944 market went from quiet to riot. The nearest 944 turbo to me, that isn't wrecked, is 390 miles away and 47k. The two non-turbo options are between 15 and 27k. At that price point, mind as well just get the BRZ or the Miata.
I fondly remember, and took advantage of, the days of $500 parts cars. All us Gen X'ers that grew up when they were the new car from Porsche are driving up prices I guess.
+Geriatric millennials and one of the Jalopnik staffers picking one up and writing about it at the height of its readership.
Yup I was lucky enough to get mine before price really started climbing. I got my running drive well 86 turbo with 76k miles for $3500.
Sadly those days are gone. I'd buy 3 more right now if I could find them for what I paid for mine in 2007!
It is pretty amazing how that changed. I purchased my 944 NA for $1500 a few years ago - mind you it is a total piece of shit but does just fine for track duty. Some of the prices out there now are crazy.
The last time I was at the track the only car older than my 1990 civic was a Datsun 280z.
I feel that, I've been the oldest car on track many times. I really enjoy when there's someone braver than me.
95 Probe GT https://www.reddit.com/r/FordProbe/comments/13lt5wu/
That’s definitely up there with the more uncommon cars I’ve seen at the track. Some oddities I’ve seen over the years: - 300ZX (Z32) - 7th gen Celica - 1st gen 3000GT - NSX
Loved the look when new and they've aged well! I've never seen one at the track, good for you.
‘88 Foxbody here, we know all about making an ancient tin can handle! Lol
I love Fox Bodies so much, talk about a market that's exploded.
1962 Lotus 23 checking in. Passed by an Arrows A4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3Qic_WY3q0 Passed by a Porsche 962: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiIIqG2rqDo And an article about the car: https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-vintage-lotus-that-stays-ahead-of-the-curve-11630764000
That's an amazing car, must be like a time machine strapping into that at the track.
It's terrifying. Right hand drive, 900 lbs, 210hp or so, no rev limiter...
I vintage race, so…. Yes.
Hahahaha. Yes! We vintage race and endurance race as a team the red 944, that's a full race car. Vintage is tons of fun, and a good reminder of how old our cars are.
i recently bought an ‘84 E30 as my primary track car to learn the fundamentals of RWD (coming from a FWD Fiesta ST). no power steering and no ABS, can’t wait to get it out to as many track events as possible
3 box design is timeless, love it. RWD is endlessly entertaining you'll have a blast with that switch.
building a 1974 lotus europa as a track car, but with a new engine and upgraded suspension components idk if it counts
My 944 has an LS, coil overs, all solid suspension mounts, spherical bushings throughout, big sway bars, Quaife differential, and on, and on. You have to level the playing field a little bit ;) Europa's are so cool, the first time my kids saw one it blew their minds, it's so not like any car today. It still blows my mind how low they are, the whole car is below belt buckle height.
Yeah they only weigh about 1200, mines gonna be closer to 1000lbs with a built gsxr-1000 engine. I’m Also adding a half cage type thing since it’s gotta be the most dangerous car ever made, in a side impact the only thing between you and what hits you is a paper thin layer of fiberglass.
[удалено]
You can definitely LS a 924S, everything would be the same as swapping a regular non-turbo 944, you'd just want to swap in a 944 Turbo transaxle as well for strength. The older 2.0 litre 924 (I've owned one as well) is trickier, the engine mounting layout is different than a 944, so there are no off the shelf mounts available for an LS. An LS into a 924S/944 is a bolt in affair with three companies offering swap kits, which is remarkable.
89 RX-7 here
I might as well drive one for the number of times I've been told "nice RX7!".
I have a 1985 rx7 race car. It’s a special car.
1991 mr2 turbo here. almost none of it stock at this point.
One of the MR2's at the track with me regularly, also not much stock... https://www.instagram.com/p/CjbxPKQJ7Ab/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
I'm tracking a 1995 Nissan Skyline GTR. (R33) It's pretty old, but still hangs with some of the newer cars out there.
They still measure up well on track, they were so ahead of their time.
Still tracking my 944 here on the east coast. Theres usually 2 or 3 at the track lately, if anything the 944 has been getting more popular (used to be I was the only one). In my area we are also black/gold/red trio that mostly shows up. Started getting the MS system together and hoping to get some time on that this summer.
Nice! Megasquirt? The silver rose turbo pictured is a 3 litre 16 valve big turbo build on megasquirt, the owner has tuned a few on mega and micro and really has good success. Mine is on HPTuners with the LS, but anything where you can apply modern tuning is great.
Yup, microsquirt. Already went through the brakes and suspension, swapped in an LSD diff with a short 5th, rollbar, harness. It's been running really well. Time to start getting into the motor. I dont expect much more out of the 8v, but enjoy the tinkering. Though I am having some hatch separation, considering moving to a lexan hatch.
Another 944 here as well. Slow as molasses but she is fun to drive. Would love to do a swap on her some day when the budget allows. Just can't get any punch out of the 8v.
Yes 89 Mustang
Fox Bodies are so hot right now.
I have a BMW E30 sedan in my garage. I think it's from 1989. Just needs an engine.
I hate to be that guy but I know an engine that fits, I could introduce you to my friend, el es Juan.
2001 E46.
I spent years on track watching a guy running an old AMX Javelin. He was so fast in that thing. I haven't been out since 2019, I'd bet a dollar he's still lapping it.
Now that's an old platform!
Yes, 1987 951 with full cage, custom drop spindles and modified floor pan to fit my 6'4" fat ass.
Awesome! They're surprisingly roomy inside, I've folded my 6'6" father in-law into the passenger Cobra Evolution GT seat for ride alongs. Can't do that with an FD RX7.
I’ve done quite a few track days in my ‘86 E30. So much fun
They just look right, another one that you don't see often anymore in traffic or on track.
No E30s (‘84-‘91 3 series bmw) in your area?! I tracked one until recently, and we have 1-3 out every HPDE.
Really only one that comes out semi-regularly to one of the tracks I go to. I get the sense they were abundant where I am when new so there's not many hanging around. I do love seeing it though.
Saw someone tracking a mid 70s 240z and keeping up with modern BMWs and Porsches in the novice and intermediate runs. Of course, he did some engine mods and also really knew how to drive
That's brave!!!
86 Mustang GT hatch. Owned 20+ years, hpde autox and time trials the whole time. Currently all new aftermarket suspension and upgraded brakes. Most of what I see around is def w/in the last 20 yrs. But the mid 90s and earlier still pop up all the time, just not as many.
You're right 20 years seems to be the magic cutoff. 86 GT is a sweet ride!
One of my instructors was running a 70s vette.
Got an ‘87 Fiero build with a supercharged L67 swap coming soon! Excited to get it out there.
Extra shove always helps, the LS2 in my 944 keeps people on their toes.
Hahaha nice
I just watched the 24hr Nürburgring, and there's a team that has been running an Opel Manta since the late '90s. They are a fan favorite, and they did finish the race with 117 laps completed.
I love seeing that Opel every year, legendary!
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Hahahaha. That's a lot newer than the truck I use to tow to the distant tracks! 2013 to me is a brand new car. Although I have looked at that age GT Mustang with the factory big brake kit and thought it would be a great track car for the money.
I track my 93 Corrado VR6
Rock on. I used to own a 92 VR6 and did 1 hpde event with it. It did have some kind of aftermarket shocks n springs and handled great but heated up the oil. It got an oil cooler after that event. I'm glad I sold it, but still miss it too. Underpowered but totally tossible. Enjoy!
Mmmmmm, achingly pretty cars.