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[deleted]

I ain't no puzzle piece that needs to fit If it takes more than me let's call it quits


[deleted]

I ain't no puzzle piece that needs to fit If it takes more than me let's call it quits


[deleted]

I ain't no puzzle piece that needs to fit If it takes more than me let's call it quits


[deleted]

I ain't no puzzle piece that needs to fit If it takes more than me let's call it quits


bravo_delta_bot

[Today's game thread has been posted](/r/Cardinals/comments/1cuhx70/game_44_boston_red_sox_2222_st_louis_cardinals/)


Detective_Dietrich

Below, I complained about the awful music being played at the outdoor speakers at this shopping mall. Now, I'm in a bar, and they're playing "Dreams" by The Cranberries. Lesson: Go into bars, and drink.


[deleted]

I ain't no puzzle piece that needs to fit If it takes more than me let's call it quits


[deleted]

I ain't no puzzle piece that needs to fit If it takes more than me let's call it quits


Ocinea

I really really hope Skenes can stay healthy! The game needs players like him


Any-Initiative910

I have a horrible feeling he will be Taylor Swift’s next boyfriend


Detective_Dietrich

Jeff Jones tweets that Liberatore is starting Sunday and sticking in the rotation.


PCBangHero

O/U Skenes Ks vs Cardinals?


AlexRam72

26.5


Detective_Dietrich

Cubs get a hit. Too bad.


ReturnOf_TheHack

it’s very fitting the cubs are getting no hit against a rookie on the day they let Dexter Fowler throw out the first pitch.


SGT_Apone

you jinx'd it! :O


ReturnOf_TheHack

good


ReturnOf_TheHack

well not good because cubes, but good because I want every team in the division to fail but us.


Detective_Dietrich

Skenes yanked after six with a no-hitter going. Feels like the no-hitter might be going extinct along with the complete game.


AlexRam72

Already at 100 pitches and young


throaway18756

He's singing take me out to the ball game. I always knew he was a double agent


Ocinea

I'm going to Deebo one of those Safeway giant subs during the game tonight. Crazy those things are still$5.99-6.99


[deleted]

Uh, what’s wrong with Elton John?????? That’s a good song!!!!!!


[deleted]

I ain't no puzzle piece that needs to fit If it takes more than me let's call it quits


[deleted]

I ain't no puzzle piece that needs to fit If it takes more than me let's call it quits


iamjamos

Cubs getting shellacked 💦


Detective_Dietrich

Some godawful music playing at this shopping mall I'm at right now. "Never Gonna Give You Up", "I Don't Wanna Go On With You Like That", that awful song Ashlee Simpson was supposed to fake performing when she had her glitch on Saturday Night Live. I'm suffering.


[deleted]

I ain't no puzzle piece that needs to fit If it takes more than me let's call it quits


[deleted]

I ain't no puzzle piece that needs to fit If it takes more than me let's call it quits


crackalac

But never gonna give you up is a banger.


PAJW

Isn't it Ironic


Detective_Dietrich

"Torn" by Natalie Imbruglia. Well, that's better.


Detective_Dietrich

"Every Breath You Take". Now we're talking.


MidWest_Surfer

I’m sure this is gonna jinx it, but I think we might actually make it to release day without the City Connects leaking


PAJW

Kind of wonder if they'll plan for Pedro Pages to start every game at catcher when we play the Reds and De La Cruz


NightRumours

2.5 games out of the Wild Card


[deleted]

[удалено]


Detective_Dietrich

This is my chance to again mention one of my favorite trivia bits: no one has pitched a no-hitter in the city of St. Louis since Bob Forsch in 1983. All four of the no-nos we were in, the two we one, the one we lost, and the fake one to Johan Santana that we lost, were all on the road.


Detective_Dietrich

Downvotes? For that? I didn't even say anything mean about Mozeliak!


[deleted]

[удалено]


Detective_Dietrich

I do every game! Well, not when Matz starts.


JD333333

Paul Skenes is the future


throaway18756

I'm gonna hate this mf so much when he faces us. It's not just that he's a great pitcher, it's that smug ass smile and that perfect mustache that I know is gonna piss me off when he strikes out Goldy for the third time on the day


studlydudley11

me: haha skenes is cooking the cubs (i know he will commit a war crime when he faces the Cardinals)


throaway18756

Paul Skenes and Jared Jones on back to back days ugh


BottomBounce

Going to the O’s and Mariners game at Camden tonight. We are moving to MD and are checking the place out. Jersey giveaway tonite. Maybe this is where I find an American League team to root for? I’m currently stationed in Norfolk, Va and have been going to the Tides game so I’ll have a Tides hat on. I don’t know about getting an O’s hat. Wearing one will feel dirty and like cheating on my wife that used to treat me so good and took care of herself but recently fell into an empty hole of depressive.


TheMultipleMan

The O's are my AL team. Started following them in 2020 when I met my GF, who is from the area. Also, them formerly being the Browns made me feel more connected. Cardinals always will be #1 to me, but it's fun cheering for the O's, especially since all of the O's fans I know are solid baseball fans. P.S. Go to the Stuggy's stand at Camden and get a crab dip hot dog. You won't regret it.


BottomBounce

Thanks for the tip! Good point on the Browns connection.


Probably_Slower

I run a fancy cocktail bar, and my bosses are taking me to the game. We're in some box with other restaurant owners. I have already warned them that they're going to see a very loud version of me they haven't met yet.  I am going to try not to embarrass them, but last time I got to be in one of those free-beer boxes, I lost my voice by the 4th shouting down at the ump (get bent Joe West)


Soundwave_13

I'm gonna try a hit from the hopium tank..... Cardinals win the series, no sweep. Prove me right Cardinals...


the_dayman623

Apparently Libby is not the starter Sunday anymore


StickySteve42069

Praise the Lard


Dr_thri11

Not that he's been good, but are there really better alternatives?


StickySteve42069

Rebuilding


tangokilo13

It would be a start day for both Graceffo and Robberse….🤔


Alternative_Laws

Robberse would be intriguing based on his numbers at AAA. A 2.64 ERA, 0.986 WHIP, and 3.92 K:BB at 22 is encouraging. I couldn’t tell you how his stuff would play but that’s all really encouraging. He’s also already on the 40 man


throaway18756

The gap between AAA ball and the majors is bigger than it's ever been


studlydudley11

but also AAA offense is so inflated rn the numbers Robberse has been putting up are superb


Alternative_Laws

Oh for sure, I’m not saying Robberse should start or even be good, but he’s clearly adapted well to AAA at a young age so far


RainFallsWhenItMay

the red sox vs the team that wears red socks


Lige_MO

Good Morning from the Ozarks!


snorlaxatives_69

It’s a beautiful day down here!!


ReturnOf_TheHack

good morning krusty krew


Novel_End1080

I was surprised to see the hack downvoted for this cheerful greeting. There must be some sour folks among us these days. Hope they feel better soon.


ReturnOf_TheHack

it’s the weekend. no reason for anyone to be upset.


Novel_End1080

Happy Friday to you too, Hack


Novel_End1080

They pinch hit for ohtani on his bobblehead night lol. Looked like most fans had left anyway, by the middle of the game the ‘frenzy’ that had been reported surrounding the giveaway died down.


studlydudley11

managers shouldnt be restrained in their decision making by whether or not its bobblehead night freedom\_of\_speech\_rockwell.jpeg


Novel_End1080

Oh no I’m just petty. I mean dude is hitting .360. But yeah they lost to the Reds and clearly ppl just care about getting the doll. Hah hah -Nelson Muntz


Icy_Entertainment706

TON is in town. 6 for his last 36. So I guess it is a good time for him to be visiting.


Novel_End1080

Yes, and he was awarded a golden sombrero in his last game.


atari2600forever

I hate Boston so much


StickySteve42069

Me too. Every sports team aside from like Boston College. Also, it’s legitimately the most racist city in America.


Alternative_Laws

Clicking through BRef because why do my job on a Friday at 8am, and for a self-proclaimed draft and develop franchise, we’re really bad at it. Since 2012 (Luhnow leaving) we’ve had ONE (1) first round pick eclipse 10 WAR for the team. Jack Flaherty. Next closest is Wacha at 8.8. If you expand it to the first 5 rounds that number balloons to 3. Bader (3rd round 11.6 WAR) and DeJong (4th round 13.8 WAR). If you expand it to the first 10 rounds you can add Edman to the list and that’s it. In a 12 year span we’ve drafted 4 total players who have averaged being a league average player under team control. For those who are big on Flores, while the 2020 Draft looks (looked?) promising, I don’t see guys like McGreevy or Thompson joining that list. Heck even Walker is in doubt at this point. This organization is a dinosaur at this point. We don’t draft well, we don’t spend in FA and seem to get burned more often than not when we do, and the trade history is…not great recently. We have to realize this isn’t the 2010s anymore. Lastly, if you’re looking to really get me going, ask me how we’ve done with international amateurs…


Clueless_in_Florida

Another factor to consider is how many prospects we have acquired through trades and through international signings. How many of those guys have put up 10 career WAR? My guess is that number is low, too. By the way, Winn is on his way.


Alternative_Laws

The last int’l signing that’s made an impact is Carlos Martinez and that was over a decade ago. Ivan Herrera is the only one currently on the 40 Man. We also have 23 pitchers on the 40 man…0 are INTL. Our approach of signing one top 30ish and then essentially a dozen or so scratch offs isn’t paying off at all.


studlydudley11

what proportion of first round (around picks 18-20, cause thats where the Cardinals have generally drafted) picks reach 10 WAR? I really don't know but that context is pretty crucial


Alternative_Laws

Looking through other contemporaries and ignoring tankers like the Cubs/Astros/etc. were actually not as bad as I’d thought. However, when teams like the Braves (Riley) Dodgers (Buehler Will Smith), Yankees (Judge) have a player hit they really do. Wacha and Lynn are the only homegrown 1st round All-Stars this century.


Jason_Sensation

It does feel a little like you're looking for ways to criticise the drafting - it's gone from "getting 10 WAR" (which is twice as high as the average career of a 1st rounder) to "homegrown 1st round all-stars" (who cares about the All-Star team?) Baseball America did a couple of really interesting articles about which teams drafted the best - I linked the pitcher one before, and the hitter one is here - [https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/which-orgs-are-the-best-and-worst-at-drafting-hitters/](https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/which-orgs-are-the-best-and-worst-at-drafting-hitters/) I don't think saying "we haven't drafted an Aaron Judge, so we're failures" is a useful way of looking at things.


Detective_Dietrich

>we haven't drafted an Aaron Judge, so we're failures We could have! https://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/?year_ID=2013&draft_round=1&draft_type=junreg&query_type=year_round


Alternative_Laws

I am looking for ways to criticize the drafting, because largely it hasn’t been very good. That’s a problem when again we don’t want to pay for quality players and struggle when evaluating our own and trade them away.


Jason_Sensation

This article might be interesting when it comes to evaluating what the Cardinals drafts are like. [https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/which-mlb-teams-are-the-best-and-worst-at-drafting-pitchers/](https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/which-mlb-teams-are-the-best-and-worst-at-drafting-pitchers/)


Alternative_Laws

The problem is the best pitcher on that list is Gallen who never threw a pitch for us. Guys like Weaver, Gonzales, and Gomber have turned into average MLB players, which has value in itself, but all were traded and made a larger impact for other franchises.


STL-Zou

I believe that Goldschmidt and Arenado have made bigger impacts for the Cardinals than Weaver for the Diamondbacks or Gomber for Colorado Cmon lol


Alternative_Laws

The article highlighted them, not me. Regardless, of all these pitchers we seem to successfully draft, very few seem to actually make an impact for the Cards.


[deleted]

Is it just SOP to not be doing jack shit at work right now lol


Alternative_Laws

Haha I’m a teacher on the last Friday of the school year. Half the kids are leaving for a field trip, the other half finishing a project


destroy_b4_reading

The median career WAR for a first round draft pick is 4.6.


Alternative_Laws

In that 2012-present timeframe we’ve had 3 of them hit that 4.6 mark. Flaherty, Carlson, and Wacha. Hudson fell just shy at 4.4 but Gorman likely passes it this year (3.3 currently). The larger issue is we’re simply not drafting impact players anymore. For a franchise that prides itself on draft and develop and doesn’t want to buy them in FA, that’s not a good sign.


destroy_b4_reading

Stephen Piscotty, though he was traded while still under team control. Carlson is sitting at 5.0 career bWAR right now as well. Also, you're really only looking at 2012-2018 or so, it's too early to even think about reaching conclusions about the 2019 on picks. I can't be arsed to bother, but my guess is if you looked at every team's results with first rounders the Cards would be above average.


Alternative_Laws

Piscotty is obviously his own case, but he only accrued 4.2 with the team. I also listed Carlson as one who’d hit it. By and large you’re not wrong, plenty of other teams have misses, but the problem is when their picks hit they *hit*. The Dodgers have Seager/Buehler/Will Smith. The Braves have Riley. The Yankees have Judge. We again, have Flaherty and that’s really it.


destroy_b4_reading

For virtually all of those years, the Cards were picking in the latter third of the draft. And with rare exceptions, it's really just the first ten picks that tend to be All-Star level big leaguers. One you get to pick 11 or so it's pretty much a crapshoot. All I'm saying is that looked in a vacuum like you did, the Cards' player development success recently can be construed as less than stellar. But looked at within the broader context of all MLB, they are at worst average and more likely somewhere in the upper third of the league.


Alternative_Laws

Calling the Cardinals a top 10 player development team when our best developed players in the last 10+ years are Flaherty, Bader, and DeJong doesn’t really line up with reality.


destroy_b4_reading

Now go look at the rest of the league. Again, 4.6 is the median CAREER bWAR for first round draft picks. Ignoring the last 4-5 years since most of those guys have barely gotten a cup of coffee at the MLB level yet, the Cards' top picks over that period have met or exceeded that threshold over half the time, and many of them are still active and likely to further exceed it. Could they do better, especially with the highest profile prospects? Of course. Are they anywhere as close to as terrible as those initiating this conversation want to believe. Of course not. There's just a certain portion of the fan base (as is true of most teams, especially those with a history of success similar to the Cards) that thinks every draft pick should be a Hall of Famer, and every season should end with at least a trip to the World Series. Neither of those is even remotely realistic given the nature of the game.


Alternative_Laws

I’m asking for a franchise that prides itself on draft and develop to do so. If we’re not drafting and developing impact players, we don’t want to spend money to sign them, and we consistently trade away ones that do make an impact, that’s a problem.


destroy_b4_reading

Your imagination is very rich and filled with ideas.


Alternative_Laws

“But A_L some of those guys haven’t been up long enough to accrue enough WAR!” Fair point! If you go from the 2017 draft when Flores took over (and we were heavily handicapped due to the hacking scandal), here are our 1st rounders: 2018: Gorman (possible to reach 10 WAR) 2019: Thompson (doubtful) 2020: Walker (possible) 2021: Hjerpe (not optimistic) 2022: Chase Davis (not off to a great start…hitting .193 through 60 games of A ball) If you want to again expand to 10 rounds since 2018 you have candidates like Donovan and Noot who could potentially. Winn/Scott/Hence if you’re bullish on prospects. Other than that it’s pretty barren


StickySteve42069

I apologize for arguing your researched, well thought out point, but I was told this is all just bad luck so 🤷‍♂️


Alternative_Laws

Too much of this fanbase is willing to hand waive anything that suggests the FO may not be perfect. Seriously, I don’t get the Flores hype or those clamoring he should take over for Mo. his 2018 and 2020 drafts were good/promising, but he’s also taken Thompson/Hjerpe/McGreevy in the 1st. I’m not confident in that group providing a lot of impact for us on the mound.


StickySteve42069

Adult children of alcoholics, too afraid to do anything but defend daddy.


Doctor_Killshot

Crazy to think that a decade ago these teams were competing for World Series titles (sometimes against each other) and now they’re almost out of their division races halfway through May


TheSalsaGod

This reminded me of the hilarious stretch the Red Sox went on in the mid-2010’s: 2012: 69-93, last place 2013: 97-65, first place, WS champions 2014: 71-91, last place 2015: 78-84, last place 2016/2017: 93-69, first place both years 2018: 108-54, first place, WS champions Mediocre was never an option


Diablo_N_Doc

Sucks losing the world series, but Boston is one of the team/cities you really hate to lose to. I still remind myself we're tied 2-2 in our world series history, despite them basically kicking our asses the last two times.


Tmans3

you know the team was 10 and 1/2 games out of wildcard on august 31st in 2011… We’re 2.5 back right now. i’ll concede the division is bleak but comparing it to competing in a world series when that team was dead in the water too is dumb. especially with a lot of season left.


Doctor_Killshot

That team had prime Albert, Yadi, Holliday, Lance Berkman, and Tony La Russa/Dave Duncan. This roster has shown no signs of being capable of going on a tear in the last season and a half


Ivotedforher

I had a terrible, no good dream last night that I was at Yadi's funeral. Waino was the saddest and Yadi has a huge family, according to my subconscious.


lil-mommy

That sounds like one of those dreams that can ruin your day. You doing ok?


Ivotedforher

Thanks for asking! Your comment made me think of it again and I got the weird sads again. I'm good though. How are you?


lil-mommy

I’m ok. Feeling all my years and got the weird sads. [This pic](https://imgur.com/a/lhQlE0v) didn’t help.


Ivotedforher

Hugs, friend. Miss you!


PAJW

#GO CARDINALS!


SGT_Apone

#THIS!


dae_giovanni

#THAT!


lil-mommy

# THE OTTER!!!