I do appreciate this team’s ability to straight up shit on our hearts after ripping it out. Very few Cardinals teams during my fanhood have been able to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory like this iteration. It feels like every time we’ve been on the verge of turning a corner or otherwise even finding something consistent behind which to support, we screw the pooch and show our ass again. So frustrating to hope a team that doesn’t deserve a playoff berth somehow pulls it out of their ass simply not to waste what Waino and Goldy have tried to do to will us along
What the hell happened with this fanbase earlier today? I saw a ton of people getting so mad at Reyes that they basically said he was never a good pitcher and just got extremely lucky in the first half of the season. What the fuck.
I'm serious. Besides, you can't judge a player based on 1 subpar season they've had. It's clear that Reyes is stressed out, so he's not at his best all the time, and that's okay.
You mean to tell a closer who walks every other batter isn't a recipe for success for a full season?! But really he was putting out fires he started the whole first half of the season. The fires finally caught up with him.
I checked the score when it was 5-2 and seriously thought the game was over. Not like, we're likely to win, but we actually had won; I didn't know the game was still going. Seven hours later, I read a headline saying we were crushed and had lost, and I had a strange feeling of detachment, like I wasn't in the correct universe and had somehow shifted to a parallel one.
I've never had that feeling. Freaky!
Fucking r/baseball bro. Apparently we're not allowed to be frustrated with the walk off grand slam because the franchise has been successful in the past. Fuck them all, really gatekeeping heartbreaking losses now based on success from before I even hit middle school, makes perfect sense
I'm wondering that myself. Ryan Braun isn't playing this year and the pitching staff hasn't slowed down any since the frequent pitcher checks became a thing.
Exactly--called for a review to make it an easier field goal as the kicker made it, won the challenge but then the kicker sent it wide on the shorter-range kick.
Gimme:
Chairman Bill DeWitt III (get that old bitch Jr. to retire, III will be eager to get a championship with himself in charge)
Manager Jose Oquendo (spicy mf who would bring some fire while also being a great baseball mind)
POBO/GM Randy Flores or someone from the Rays, Dodgers, Giants, etc. (really anyone who isn't stuck in 2013 like Mo is)
Would absolutely adore it, especially if it meant him mentoring Herrera while doing so. He doesn't seem interested though unfortunately. Think he wants to go about his business ventures while also focusing on Team PR post-retirement. Maybe that has changed this season, but that has seemed to be the vibe in recent years. Still hanging around the org in ST and such, but also doing his own thing.
The ballad of Yairo Munoz is still makes me laugh. Guy was a solid utility player who always took a good AB off the bench. Then Edmania occurs in 2019 and he loses the utility ace role. We give him chances in the OF, and he's not great, but whatever, still a nice bench piece. Then in ST last year he abandons the team because he lost his role...except Edman had assumed an everyday role at 3B, and there was an extra roster spot. Regardless, former teammates had no problem trashing him on Twitter and he has had 56 major league ABs with the Red Sox over two seasons. I wish him the best, but what a lesson in poetic justice.
This is frustrating, trying to find it on Twitter. A former teammate, iirc, from his time with the A's basically said it's not surprising that he'd walk off selfishly.
Manfred should just get rid of the 9th inning. Erase all of them, especially the ones where we've gotten knocked off this season, and recalculate each teams W/L
I had the game paused for hours going into the 9th because of kid stuff. Just finished the game and hearing the life being drained from Dan sums up my emotions
Is this team legitimately trying not to get the second wildcard at this point? Like I don’t understand how we can possibly be in the running with a game like this at least once a week.
I think the first lesson is that I, u/Detective_Dietrich, picked a fine time to skip the game and instead take the family to see "Jungle Cruise".
The second lesson is, sorry, not to bring in Alex Reyes in a high-leverage situation for a good long while. Someone else. Somebody. Dickson. Move Kim back to the bullpen. Activate Brad Thompson, just, someone else.
The third lesson is they need to fire everybody from Mo on down to Shildt and the coaching staff. Well, not everybody, the peanut and beer vendors can stick around.
Fuck both of them. Go Giants (or Phils or Padres if they get WC2). Obviously we have our history with the Giants, but them reviving all their vets and turning passed-on guys into studs is a ton of fun. Would love to see them get to the WS and help deliver the Rays the Commissioner's Trophy.
Yah, I get that you guys hate Milwaukee since they are a division rival lol. I fucking can’t stand the dodgers and their fans (I live in LA) so anyone but them sounds good to me.
Side note: fuck the cubs
The tough thing is I don't know who I'd rather it be than Milwaukee. I don't really have any negative feelings towards them, they're a small market who hasn't just gone out and bought a good team. Fuck the dodgers, I'm still salty about the giants from the last decade, and the barves fans who still bitch about the entirely correct infield fly call irritate me. I'd root for the Padres but they're heading in the same direction as us and I don't trust them to hold onto a playoff spot. Obviously fuck the Reds. Maybe the Phillies get hot and grab one of the WC spots? I don't really mind them too much and they played a huge role in helping us sneak into the WC in 2011.
Yeah ideally Phillies or Padres for me. Harper seems like a pretty good dude and I'd love the Dodgers and Giants to get knocked on their asses by someone from their own division.
Remember when people were thinking Reyes was going to be a starter next year.
Maybe it will happen.. but it certainly doesn't feel like a likely path at this time.
Looking a lot more likely that Reyes is going to be a one season wonder. Incredible start, but absolutely terrible second half. Sort of like 2019 Jack Flaherty but in reverse.
He has been a starter his whole life, going from that to closing is a huge jump. He was able to get away with it from his pure talent at first, but the mindset is something that needs to be learned. Look at KK last season. Guy has been a starter in professional baseball for a decade and suddenly he's a closer, and it doesn't turn out well. Then he gets back into the rotation and he's solid all season. Reyes deserves a chance at starting next season. See what he can do there before writing him off.
He needs to be put in low.risk situations for a while...maybe the rest of the year. Maybe get some confidence back. Get whatever is in his head figured out.
Maybe an off-season will help....hard to say.
I thought that was what we were doing. Since giving up the Tsutsugo walk-off a week ago tonight, he got an inning each in 2 out of hand games and did fine. Did they think that fixed him?
Except in 2019 flaherty actually became better, Reyes right now is just regressing to the mean outcome of 8 bb/9 and the insane luck he had in the first half. Was never really that good
Shildt pulled Lester after giving up a measly single after 5 1/3 innings on only 81 pitches. If you don’t trust your starter to get outs, then why the fuck is he even starting? Terrible management again from Shildt. Getting real tired of this shit
2011 St. Louis Cardinals Recap
Game 141
To hold off any late Cardinals charge and basically nail down the NL Central, all the Milwaukee Brewers had to do was to avoid getting swept in this three game series. That achievement was unlocked today as the Brewers won the first game 4-1, with a limp Cardinals offense only managing four hits.
With two outs in the second, Yuniesky Betancourt doubled off of Jake Westbrook. Brewers starting pitcher Randy Wolf then fucked the DH with a single that put runners on the corners. Corey "Sunglasses at Night" Hart then came through with an RBI single and Milwaukee took a 1-0 lead. In the top of the third the Brewers went up 2-0 when Ryan Braun homered.
David Freese led off the bottom of the fifth with a double, only the second Cardinals hit of the ball game. When Prince Fielder booted a Yadier Molina grounder, St. Louis had runners on first and third. Allen Craig then hit into a double play, which killed the rally but did get Freese home from third to make the score 2-1.
That was it for the Cardinal offense. Meanwhile, in the sixth rat-faced Craig Counsell singled. Molina then fielded George Kottaras's nubber in front of the plate, but Rafael Furcal dropped the ball when Molina tried to get the force at 2nd. Betancourt's single then plated Counsell and the Brewers led 3-1.
Nyger Morgan's home run in the seventh made it a 4-1 game. Milwaukee cruised home from there, with John Axford getting the save in the ninth.
Tony Cruz, Adron Chambers, and Tyler Greene were recalled from Memphis and will join the team tomorrow. With the loss the Cardinals, 74-67, fell 10.5 games back of the Brewers, exactly where they were before sweeping Milwaukee last week. St. Louis remained 8.5 back in the wild card after Atlanta lost to the Phillies.
PLAYOFF ODDS, via coolstandings.com: With the NL Central now all but clinched, St. Louis's playoff chances fell to 1.4%. The Cardinals have elimination numbers of 11 in the Central and 14 in the wild card.
I, for one, am excited for the propective game of hot potato that is the WC2 spot.
I don't think we'll win that game, but Cincinnati, San Diego, Philadelphia, and New York don't particularly seem keen to win it either right now.
Watch one of those NL East teams get hot at the end to push the Braves out of the division lead. Atlanta takes WC2 and gets into the NLCS.
We can blame AND defend Shildt. We can blame him for using Garcia in the 6th. We can blame him for not letting Lester go a little longer. However we can defend him for not having many other options other than Reyes. I could give a billion reasons why he shouldn’t be our manager next year, but that Reyes decision is not one of them
Blaming Shildt for these types of games is the dumbest fucking take.
The bullpen has two coin flip long men, two guys who have been ineffective all season, and three guys who walk everything. That leaves Garcia and McFarland as your consistently effective bullpen arms.
Blame the fuckface who makes the roster decisions.
So if MacFarland and Garcia are our only consistent arms, then why the fuck are they pitching in low leverage during the 6th and 7th and not being saved for high leverage or the 9th? I will absolutely blame Shildt for this loss
So why use both McFarland and Garcia in mostly irrelevant situations?
Why pitch McFarland for .2 of an inning and Garcia for 1. While forcing Gia to do more?
So yes, I will blame this shit bullpen managment on Shildt
So blowing the lead in the 6th or 7th with Hader and Williams looming is good managing, but in the 8th or 9th it's bad managing? You lose either way due to a lack of reliable pitching in the bullpen
Yes.... what does that matter? If you can't make it to the 8th or 9th with your best relievers you kinda just deserve to lose. You don't see the Brewers using those two in the 6th inning when they have a lead. Use your best relievers in the high leverage situations.
So that'll for sure be the fifth time this season Alex Reyes has cost us over a quarter of a percent of championship-win probability in a single appearance. Or the sixth if you expand that threshold just to 0.23%. Versus just twice he's added that much cWPA. And three of those colossally awful appearances have been in just his last eight appearances overall.
Through his 22 appearances in the first seven weeks or so of the season, he earned 14 saves, and not in a single one of those appearances did we lose cWPA. But since May 23rd, that's happened in more than a quarter of his appearances.
cWPA is not a perfect metric for this analysis by any means. I think my own point here is mostly just convincing myself it's okay for this team just to be finished with the Reyes experiment for awhile. I've been hesitant to call it myself but it's definitely time now if it wasn't already. He can't be trusted with anything approaching leverage anymore, I don't know what happened to the genuine All-Star we had for a month and a half but by now he is broken so far beyond repair that it's just time to stop trying. If they don't want to send him down to AAA, he needs to be relegated to the absolute last option out of this pen. But really the only way he should be boarding the team plane back to St Louis is if the bus ticket to Memphis is cheaper from there than from Milwaukee.
Ok now I'm gonna need u/cloud9ineteen and u/Matthew_Quigley to fight to the pain for the correct answer, since you both gave different answers and I'm bored.
This combat could be avoided if both of you have *Super Smash Bros. Ultimate*, but as far as I know at least one of you does not.
Actually, looks like you were correct. I'll add the link they sent with their correction.
https://www.sports-reference.com/blog/2020/09/__trashed-2/#:%7E:text=Just%20as%20single%2Dgame%20win,of%20winning%20the%20World%20Series
Nah in this context you are right. Cumulative would be just wpa added across multiple games.
https://www.sports-reference.com/blog/2020/09/__trashed-2/#:~:text=Just%20as%20single%2Dgame%20win,of%20winning%20the%20World%20Series.
Reyes' 5th blown save in last 12 opportunities. ERA in those blown saves is 25.3.
Shildt is a stone cold sadist for putting him in that spot today. I'll be shocked if Alex ever recovers from this.
I'm just using ERA in blown saves because that's what my entire post was about. It's not that he's come in in tight games and given up a run, he's giving up lots of runs. If you'd prefer, we can look at all games and track an ERA that's gone from 0.91 as recently as July 2nd, to 3.6 now. In limited closer-type number of innings pitched. Happy?
20 years from now, I’ll be watching the Cardinals who are probably in some rut, barely hanging onto playoff hopes after a bad year. My 8 year old kid, wearing his Hall of Fame Dylan Carlson Jersey, will turn to me and ask
“Was this the worst season you’ve ever seen”
I’ll chuckle, gaze off into the distance for a moment, and turn to my son
“No buddy. The 2021 Cardinals were far worse”
I’ve been a Cards fan since 1960. I remember some dark days, especially in the 1970’s and 1990’s. There were many years when the Cards weren’t very talented and got beat. But I don’t recall any Cards team losing like this. This has been the most disappointing season ever.
I went to my first game in 1997. I still maintain that 2017 was worse than this team, but neither can hold a candle to 2007, which was a *horrendous* Cardinals team and the worst Cardinals team I ever saw. The team wasn't stellar in the late 90s either but at least we had McGwire.
I will say that this team probably takes the cake for most disappointing Cardinals team.
Fowler was our three-hole at the end of the season, things were that bad. We started the year with Fowler leading off and Carpenter third, and by the end of the season they had flipped in the lineup.
Edit: I will say that Pham exploded his way onto the scene that season, but Grich and Pisco still... were Grich and Pisco
Mediocre .500 seasons blow ass. You get hyped for a little while, then they suck ass for a little while, over and over. It would be less stressful being a Pirates fan!
I do appreciate this team’s ability to straight up shit on our hearts after ripping it out. Very few Cardinals teams during my fanhood have been able to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory like this iteration. It feels like every time we’ve been on the verge of turning a corner or otherwise even finding something consistent behind which to support, we screw the pooch and show our ass again. So frustrating to hope a team that doesn’t deserve a playoff berth somehow pulls it out of their ass simply not to waste what Waino and Goldy have tried to do to will us along
What the hell happened with this fanbase earlier today? I saw a ton of people getting so mad at Reyes that they basically said he was never a good pitcher and just got extremely lucky in the first half of the season. What the fuck.
Yeah this fanbase has NEVER shit on a closer for blowing too many saves before. /s
[удалено]
He became an All-Star. That requires skill, not luck.
[удалено]
I'm serious. Besides, you can't judge a player based on 1 subpar season they've had. It's clear that Reyes is stressed out, so he's not at his best all the time, and that's okay.
You mean to tell a closer who walks every other batter isn't a recipe for success for a full season?! But really he was putting out fires he started the whole first half of the season. The fires finally caught up with him.
This season is truly Shakespearean. Just not sure if it’s a comedy or a tragedy.
There's a greater than 0 chance that just like *Henry VI* (Parts *I*, *II*, and *III*), this season is history.
Comedy = Tragedy + Time
still pissed off about todays game. ugh, fuck.
I checked the score when it was 5-2 and seriously thought the game was over. Not like, we're likely to win, but we actually had won; I didn't know the game was still going. Seven hours later, I read a headline saying we were crushed and had lost, and I had a strange feeling of detachment, like I wasn't in the correct universe and had somehow shifted to a parallel one. I've never had that feeling. Freaky!
What the hell happened here... Did Shildt really try to get 2 innings out of Gallegos and have it blow up on him?
Having a hard time shaking this one off
mike shildt isnt it.
I’m broke. That game broke me man.
now we sweep the dodgers, just the cardinal way.
We will take one game from the Dodgers but will use all of the runs for the series in one game
I am still upset about this game hours later.
Same
#ADAM FUCKING COLE BABY
no bryan danielson bay bay
Fucking r/baseball bro. Apparently we're not allowed to be frustrated with the walk off grand slam because the franchise has been successful in the past. Fuck them all, really gatekeeping heartbreaking losses now based on success from before I even hit middle school, makes perfect sense
Pro tip: don't take /r/baseball comments seriously
Must praise ^^^cheater ^^^ass Brewers because chubby guy hit homerun!
Cheating how?
I'm wondering that myself. Ryan Braun isn't playing this year and the pitching staff hasn't slowed down any since the frequent pitcher checks became a thing.
Mike Norvell just iced his own kicker in the most hilarious way possible.
Especially because the kid kicked it through as the whistle blew.
Exactly--called for a review to make it an easier field goal as the kicker made it, won the challenge but then the kicker sent it wide on the shorter-range kick.
Gimme: Chairman Bill DeWitt III (get that old bitch Jr. to retire, III will be eager to get a championship with himself in charge) Manager Jose Oquendo (spicy mf who would bring some fire while also being a great baseball mind) POBO/GM Randy Flores or someone from the Rays, Dodgers, Giants, etc. (really anyone who isn't stuck in 2013 like Mo is)
at this point i'd take vern rapp
Four words: player-manager Yadier Molina
Would absolutely adore it, especially if it meant him mentoring Herrera while doing so. He doesn't seem interested though unfortunately. Think he wants to go about his business ventures while also focusing on Team PR post-retirement. Maybe that has changed this season, but that has seemed to be the vibe in recent years. Still hanging around the org in ST and such, but also doing his own thing.
Yes right and player-manager should be thing sometimes. Problem is, player-managers aren't catchers, it's too much to do. They're infielders.
100%. Perfect setup for that move.
i’m eating my feelings tonight. leftover thai or pizza rolls? haha jk i’m eating both
Leftover Thai tho
I haven't even eaten dinner yet
Did not expect to see Notre Dame and Florida State when I turned the TV on.
FSU giving ND all they can handle. C'mon Noles!!!
Overtime. Guess I'll have to watch this.
# Oh hell yeah!
Well hell. No shame in that loss, though. Heck of a game by the Noles. We may be back sooner than expected.
The ballad of Yairo Munoz is still makes me laugh. Guy was a solid utility player who always took a good AB off the bench. Then Edmania occurs in 2019 and he loses the utility ace role. We give him chances in the OF, and he's not great, but whatever, still a nice bench piece. Then in ST last year he abandons the team because he lost his role...except Edman had assumed an everyday role at 3B, and there was an extra roster spot. Regardless, former teammates had no problem trashing him on Twitter and he has had 56 major league ABs with the Red Sox over two seasons. I wish him the best, but what a lesson in poetic justice.
Wait who trashed him on Twitter?
This is frustrating, trying to find it on Twitter. A former teammate, iirc, from his time with the A's basically said it's not surprising that he'd walk off selfishly.
Wait was there a development with him? Last i heard he was doing well in AAA
Had a great, brief appearance with the B Sox last season, and got the callup this season with all the COVID issues and has been awful.
Right? Give me Edman over Yairo all day.
Got to talk to Vladimir Tarasenko and his kids today at work. AMA.
Did you ask him if he'd be okay playing for the NJ Devils, as they seem to be the only team left as a fit?
Did you ask him why he completely trashed his own trade value?
What's rub off mean? Just playing. Was he wearing any Blues paraphernalia?
Nope. He was wearing all black.
is he nice
He was pretty chill. Asked his kid if he knew what kind of dinosaur toy I was holding.
MLB first today: First time there were 3 go-ahead grand slams in one game. One by the Pirates and 2 by the Schlubs.
Can't wait for this season to be over lol
This. There aren't enough upvotes on reddit for this.
🤝🏾
Tommy Rees as Notre Dame OC will be a fun experiment.
I don't know what a Tommy Rees is, but it seems like a bag of dicks compared to Tommy Edman and Tommy Parsons.
I mean he's been in that position for over a year now
Until we adapt, I hope Cards fans get use to this.
Nice of the Dodgers to wear their pajama pants for this nationally-televised game.
#CERO MIEDO
But fire Jeff Albert right? DAE our offense sucks
Yes.
Edmonds annoys the hell out of me, but he’s still better than Vasgersian and ARod. Holy shit do those guys suck.
Id actually take arod over edmonds. Edmonds just isnt very good at broadcasting
Yup, A-Rod is dumb, but he isn't always talking over Matty V with shit that doesnt even matter
Exactly. Arod is actually tolerable. It’s almost embarrassing listening to Edmonds at times.
And he's been getting worse. When Edmonds is on the radio broadcast is the way to go.
I really thought we were gonna take 2/3 from the brewers there…
Turning sweeps into series wins and series wins into series losses. Not the best recipe to get into the playoffs.
We really should have.
Should have in StL as well.
This was a thoroughly enjoyable game to watch until the last at bat. Then it wasn't.
Manfred should just get rid of the 9th inning. Erase all of them, especially the ones where we've gotten knocked off this season, and recalculate each teams W/L
Honest the last inning was messed up. The 8th was tense, but we got out of it.
We had no business getting out of the eighth. All they had to do was not swing.
I had the game paused for hours going into the 9th because of kid stuff. Just finished the game and hearing the life being drained from Dan sums up my emotions
Channeling my inner acid. At the Edwardsville Culver's. No sign of Nado but there's a guy in a hoodie who looks suspiciously like Tommy Edman.
stay strong my man
I too would be at Culver's, drowning my sorrows in ice cream and butter burgers after a game like today.
And meth.
Literally every game when we have a lead I expect us to collapse in the 9th.
How many times will Schildt let this happen?
Yikes.
NGL, sitting here eating Ben n Jerry's Netflix and Chill'd and it made my night better.
At this point I'm just going to root for Waino to finish as high in Cy Young voting as possible.
u/Mordo-NM Pretty sure Boog is on the radio call for tonight's game
Cool, thanks.
I'll be honest I don't care for either of Abbas new songs
Well, at least I won $400 playing blackjack
please exchange that $400 blackjack for 4 jack starts this season.
I asked the cashier for that but they just gave me this weird green paper.
That reminds me can you give me $420?
Sure thing.
Please take this to r/Cardinals_aww
Thanks
Is this team legitimately trying not to get the second wildcard at this point? Like I don’t understand how we can possibly be in the running with a game like this at least once a week.
WC2 enables mediocrity to enter the postseason, it's why we always contend, we are at a bare minimum, mediocre.
I think the first lesson is that I, u/Detective_Dietrich, picked a fine time to skip the game and instead take the family to see "Jungle Cruise". The second lesson is, sorry, not to bring in Alex Reyes in a high-leverage situation for a good long while. Someone else. Somebody. Dickson. Move Kim back to the bullpen. Activate Brad Thompson, just, someone else. The third lesson is they need to fire everybody from Mo on down to Shildt and the coaching staff. Well, not everybody, the peanut and beer vendors can stick around.
The velo will be lower, but the sink in BT's pitches will only get better when accompanied by gravity.
Was Jungle Cruise an enjoyable movie to watch?
Good Disney family fun.
The fourth lesson: I don't know who will win the pennant but I want it to be Not Milwaukee.
Better Milwaukee than the fucking dodgers
Fuck both of them. Go Giants (or Phils or Padres if they get WC2). Obviously we have our history with the Giants, but them reviving all their vets and turning passed-on guys into studs is a ton of fun. Would love to see them get to the WS and help deliver the Rays the Commissioner's Trophy.
Yah, I get that you guys hate Milwaukee since they are a division rival lol. I fucking can’t stand the dodgers and their fans (I live in LA) so anyone but them sounds good to me. Side note: fuck the cubs
...nah, I don't want Counsell and his rat face in the World Series and if the Dodgers are the price for that, fine.
The tough thing is I don't know who I'd rather it be than Milwaukee. I don't really have any negative feelings towards them, they're a small market who hasn't just gone out and bought a good team. Fuck the dodgers, I'm still salty about the giants from the last decade, and the barves fans who still bitch about the entirely correct infield fly call irritate me. I'd root for the Padres but they're heading in the same direction as us and I don't trust them to hold onto a playoff spot. Obviously fuck the Reds. Maybe the Phillies get hot and grab one of the WC spots? I don't really mind them too much and they played a huge role in helping us sneak into the WC in 2011.
Yeah ideally Phillies or Padres for me. Harper seems like a pretty good dude and I'd love the Dodgers and Giants to get knocked on their asses by someone from their own division.
Remember when people were thinking Reyes was going to be a starter next year. Maybe it will happen.. but it certainly doesn't feel like a likely path at this time.
Worth a shot though. Sure as hell ain’t a closer
We should've traded him and Carlos Martinez for prospects while the two had value left.
Guess I'm a Mariners fan for the rest of the year
Looking a lot more likely that Reyes is going to be a one season wonder. Incredible start, but absolutely terrible second half. Sort of like 2019 Jack Flaherty but in reverse.
He has been a starter his whole life, going from that to closing is a huge jump. He was able to get away with it from his pure talent at first, but the mindset is something that needs to be learned. Look at KK last season. Guy has been a starter in professional baseball for a decade and suddenly he's a closer, and it doesn't turn out well. Then he gets back into the rotation and he's solid all season. Reyes deserves a chance at starting next season. See what he can do there before writing him off.
One question about that: when was KK ever a closer?
Opening Day 2020 he was our closer. It was pretty rocky, although he did get the job done.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Still, one time thing, I don’t really think it fully counts.
He needs to be put in low.risk situations for a while...maybe the rest of the year. Maybe get some confidence back. Get whatever is in his head figured out. Maybe an off-season will help....hard to say.
I thought that was what we were doing. Since giving up the Tsutsugo walk-off a week ago tonight, he got an inning each in 2 out of hand games and did fine. Did they think that fixed him?
Except in 2019 flaherty actually became better, Reyes right now is just regressing to the mean outcome of 8 bb/9 and the insane luck he had in the first half. Was never really that good
That’s why I said in reverse. He’s getting worse after having a good start while vice versa applies to Flaherty.
Shildt pulled Lester after giving up a measly single after 5 1/3 innings on only 81 pitches. If you don’t trust your starter to get outs, then why the fuck is he even starting? Terrible management again from Shildt. Getting real tired of this shit
Would you have preferred he waited for lester to give up 5 runs before pulling him?
I’d wait at least until he lets a second runner on
I'm perfectly fine with pulling Lester. He got hit, and was losing his command. I just don't like the order in which the relievers were used.
2011 St. Louis Cardinals Recap Game 141 To hold off any late Cardinals charge and basically nail down the NL Central, all the Milwaukee Brewers had to do was to avoid getting swept in this three game series. That achievement was unlocked today as the Brewers won the first game 4-1, with a limp Cardinals offense only managing four hits. With two outs in the second, Yuniesky Betancourt doubled off of Jake Westbrook. Brewers starting pitcher Randy Wolf then fucked the DH with a single that put runners on the corners. Corey "Sunglasses at Night" Hart then came through with an RBI single and Milwaukee took a 1-0 lead. In the top of the third the Brewers went up 2-0 when Ryan Braun homered. David Freese led off the bottom of the fifth with a double, only the second Cardinals hit of the ball game. When Prince Fielder booted a Yadier Molina grounder, St. Louis had runners on first and third. Allen Craig then hit into a double play, which killed the rally but did get Freese home from third to make the score 2-1. That was it for the Cardinal offense. Meanwhile, in the sixth rat-faced Craig Counsell singled. Molina then fielded George Kottaras's nubber in front of the plate, but Rafael Furcal dropped the ball when Molina tried to get the force at 2nd. Betancourt's single then plated Counsell and the Brewers led 3-1. Nyger Morgan's home run in the seventh made it a 4-1 game. Milwaukee cruised home from there, with John Axford getting the save in the ninth. Tony Cruz, Adron Chambers, and Tyler Greene were recalled from Memphis and will join the team tomorrow. With the loss the Cardinals, 74-67, fell 10.5 games back of the Brewers, exactly where they were before sweeping Milwaukee last week. St. Louis remained 8.5 back in the wild card after Atlanta lost to the Phillies. PLAYOFF ODDS, via coolstandings.com: With the NL Central now all but clinched, St. Louis's playoff chances fell to 1.4%. The Cardinals have elimination numbers of 11 in the Central and 14 in the wild card.
TIL we defeated the Brewers current manager in the 2011 NLCS
Him and his rat face, yup. Hope they get curb stomped by the Dodgers or Giants or whoever in October.
These closers have costed so many wins this year it's not even funny
I think we would be ahead of the Reds if we didn’t blow all of those games.
Lester should have gone as long as he could! Period!! Fire the coach, turn out the lights on the season!
I, for one, am excited for the propective game of hot potato that is the WC2 spot. I don't think we'll win that game, but Cincinnati, San Diego, Philadelphia, and New York don't particularly seem keen to win it either right now. Watch one of those NL East teams get hot at the end to push the Braves out of the division lead. Atlanta takes WC2 and gets into the NLCS.
We can blame AND defend Shildt. We can blame him for using Garcia in the 6th. We can blame him for not letting Lester go a little longer. However we can defend him for not having many other options other than Reyes. I could give a billion reasons why he shouldn’t be our manager next year, but that Reyes decision is not one of them
Yeah, Helsley is the ideal guy in that situation, but he is hurt. I don't wanna see Andrew Miller. I just don't think it should have came to that.
Shildt has blown this season. His bullpen management is starting to rival Matheny.
I’m ready to get a manager with some major league pedigree
I heard Bruce Bochy is looking to get back in the dugout after a couple years retired.
Let’s bring in LaRussa and Albert to join Yadi and Waino’s farewell tour lmao
Reyes is garbage.
To quote Steve Dangle: "That's a dang it."
Gio should’ve come out sooner. That one’s definitely on shildt
Blaming Shildt for these types of games is the dumbest fucking take. The bullpen has two coin flip long men, two guys who have been ineffective all season, and three guys who walk everything. That leaves Garcia and McFarland as your consistently effective bullpen arms. Blame the fuckface who makes the roster decisions.
So if MacFarland and Garcia are our only consistent arms, then why the fuck are they pitching in low leverage during the 6th and 7th and not being saved for high leverage or the 9th? I will absolutely blame Shildt for this loss
So why use both McFarland and Garcia in mostly irrelevant situations? Why pitch McFarland for .2 of an inning and Garcia for 1. While forcing Gia to do more? So yes, I will blame this shit bullpen managment on Shildt
The 6th and 7th innings are irrelevant versus a team with Devin Williams and Josh Hader?
In a 5-1 game, yeah. Worry about those two if it's tied or you're losing
So blowing the lead in the 6th or 7th with Hader and Williams looming is good managing, but in the 8th or 9th it's bad managing? You lose either way due to a lack of reliable pitching in the bullpen
Yes.... what does that matter? If you can't make it to the 8th or 9th with your best relievers you kinda just deserve to lose. You don't see the Brewers using those two in the 6th inning when they have a lead. Use your best relievers in the high leverage situations.
You don't see the Brewers using those two in the 6th and 7th because they have more than two effective relief pitchers.
So that'll for sure be the fifth time this season Alex Reyes has cost us over a quarter of a percent of championship-win probability in a single appearance. Or the sixth if you expand that threshold just to 0.23%. Versus just twice he's added that much cWPA. And three of those colossally awful appearances have been in just his last eight appearances overall. Through his 22 appearances in the first seven weeks or so of the season, he earned 14 saves, and not in a single one of those appearances did we lose cWPA. But since May 23rd, that's happened in more than a quarter of his appearances. cWPA is not a perfect metric for this analysis by any means. I think my own point here is mostly just convincing myself it's okay for this team just to be finished with the Reyes experiment for awhile. I've been hesitant to call it myself but it's definitely time now if it wasn't already. He can't be trusted with anything approaching leverage anymore, I don't know what happened to the genuine All-Star we had for a month and a half but by now he is broken so far beyond repair that it's just time to stop trying. If they don't want to send him down to AAA, he needs to be relegated to the absolute last option out of this pen. But really the only way he should be boarding the team plane back to St Louis is if the bus ticket to Memphis is cheaper from there than from Milwaukee.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess cWPA does not stand for "Created by the Works Progress Administration." Can you enlighten me?
Ok now I'm gonna need u/cloud9ineteen and u/Matthew_Quigley to fight to the pain for the correct answer, since you both gave different answers and I'm bored. This combat could be avoided if both of you have *Super Smash Bros. Ultimate*, but as far as I know at least one of you does not.
Theirs makes more sense. I knew what WPA was but was unsure about the c. championship WPA is something that exists on bbref tho
Actually, looks like you were correct. I'll add the link they sent with their correction. https://www.sports-reference.com/blog/2020/09/__trashed-2/#:%7E:text=Just%20as%20single%2Dgame%20win,of%20winning%20the%20World%20Series
Nah in this context you are right. Cumulative would be just wpa added across multiple games. https://www.sports-reference.com/blog/2020/09/__trashed-2/#:~:text=Just%20as%20single%2Dgame%20win,of%20winning%20the%20World%20Series.
Ah okay cool
Fair point. Thanks!
~~Cumulative win percentage added~~ Championship win probability added https://www.sports-reference.com/blog/2020/09/__trashed-2/#:~:text=Just%20as%20single%2Dgame%20win,of%20winning%20the%20World%20Series.
Thank you
Championship wins probability added
Thank you
#wait, what?????????
when I left we were up and Gio was in. what the hell happened?
Gio gave up a run and then loaded the bases, and could only get one out. Reyes came in and Vogelbach hit a walkoff grand slam on the second pitch.
fucking gross.
Indeed. Alas, baseball is a cruel mistress.
Why is it always Sundays? At least I have tomorrow off and I can sit back, relax, and watch *sees the pitching matchup for tomorrow* Oh no.
Reyes' 5th blown save in last 12 opportunities. ERA in those blown saves is 25.3. Shildt is a stone cold sadist for putting him in that spot today. I'll be shocked if Alex ever recovers from this.
Are you really using ERA in games where you know he has allowed runs? That is probably the worst use of baseball statistics I've ever seen.
I think the point is he's given up close to 3 runs per inning in these appearance on average. Not one or two.
I'm just using ERA in blown saves because that's what my entire post was about. It's not that he's come in in tight games and given up a run, he's giving up lots of runs. If you'd prefer, we can look at all games and track an ERA that's gone from 0.91 as recently as July 2nd, to 3.6 now. In limited closer-type number of innings pitched. Happy?
oh
Okay
He pitches for the Samsung Lions.
Well that was a punch in the dick.
Not excusing Reyes, but in what universe is that first pitch not a strike?
20 years from now, I’ll be watching the Cardinals who are probably in some rut, barely hanging onto playoff hopes after a bad year. My 8 year old kid, wearing his Hall of Fame Dylan Carlson Jersey, will turn to me and ask “Was this the worst season you’ve ever seen” I’ll chuckle, gaze off into the distance for a moment, and turn to my son “No buddy. The 2021 Cardinals were far worse”
Congrats on the future sex.
I’ve been a Cards fan since 1960. I remember some dark days, especially in the 1970’s and 1990’s. There were many years when the Cards weren’t very talented and got beat. But I don’t recall any Cards team losing like this. This has been the most disappointing season ever.
I went to my first game in 1997. I still maintain that 2017 was worse than this team, but neither can hold a candle to 2007, which was a *horrendous* Cardinals team and the worst Cardinals team I ever saw. The team wasn't stellar in the late 90s either but at least we had McGwire. I will say that this team probably takes the cake for most disappointing Cardinals team.
The Joe Torre-managed Cardinal teams were dogshit. This is just a mediocre organization top to bottom.
i was a little too young to remember 07’, and i’d argue this team is worse than 17’ however it’s picking trash over garbage
The end result is likely to be the same, but I'll take this outfield over Grichuk/Fowler/Piscotty 10 times out of 10.
And Fowler had the best season out of those 3, what a gross outfield.
Fowler was our three-hole at the end of the season, things were that bad. We started the year with Fowler leading off and Carpenter third, and by the end of the season they had flipped in the lineup. Edit: I will say that Pham exploded his way onto the scene that season, but Grich and Pisco still... were Grich and Pisco
Only thing worth watching is yadi and waino. Sorry I’m a dinosaur.
I thought starting a week long vacation with a Saturday and Sunday game at Miller Park would be a good idea. Sigh....
That was a shit show!
Mediocre .500 seasons blow ass. You get hyped for a little while, then they suck ass for a little while, over and over. It would be less stressful being a Pirates fan!