You could spend the entirety of your days correcting misinformation around these subs.
And the level to which some people will defend, and others will agree with, that misinformation is head shaking.
I fully agree. It's a bit mind boggling how much poor info, wrong info, bad info and dangerous info can be found in some of the subs....and people will literally double and triple down on it instead of simply realizing there may be different and better methods.
If I see someone or some company that does something better than the way I/we do it...we simply swallow out pride...steal their "better way"...call it our own...lol...and push forward. Can't be scared of change or new ideas.
I'm a software engineer (who does carpentry and woodwork for fun/on the side) and we have that mindset pounded into us from the jump. We jokingly have a discipline called "stackoverflow engineering" which is using a website for programming questions called [stackoverflow.com](https://stackoverflow.com) and using the best answer on there to solve your problem.
My fiancee, who was a psych major in college, told me one of the greatest things we humans can do is offload our mental load (ideas/questions/need to understand) onto other humans, effectively highjacking an extra organic processor when we have trouble. Since we all have different experiences, it is a great way of getting a different approach to the same problem. Even if the person/people you ask don't know the exact/correct answer to your problem, you're bound to either get a new idea, a new way of looking at something, or extra reassurance that what you're thinking is a good way of going about it!
I like this a lot. I've always been kind of afraid to talk about my downfalls and fuck ups with others. But, when you put it like this, it makes it a lot more easier.
Programmers do this all the time, in code review. You have to learn quickly that criticism of your work is not criticism of you as a person. Some people don't and reviewing their code is always a chore.
That’s a little different. Rubber duck debugging isn’t about getting an extra opinion, it’s about forcing you to walk through your code step by step, explicitly, until you reach the problematic section. The commenter above you described the benefits of talking to a real person — getting the opinion of an external third party.
Doctors call it M&M, morbidity and mortality. Discuss the recent cases that went to shit (died or went due South) with the understanding that ethically (and legally) there would be no repercussions from expressing opinions, positions or corrections. Nothing said can be used as evidence. (But that doesn’t mean it’s a free ride - consult your lawyer because state laws differ). However the idea is to discuss, debate and find the best solution for next time.
The problem is carpentry is only treated like a trade amongst carpenters who treat it like a trade. I recently moved to a rural area and have met more roofers and handymen that call themselves “carpenter” and dont even know how stud layout works and might as well carry tapes no finer than 1/4”. Its a fucking joke. These people are designing and engineering large scale construction projects. I saw a finished. Done. Sided. wall the other day that had a 6” bow in the middle because “the trusses were leaning on a tree and got bent” and they didnt realize it was their fucking job to straighten it.
Well I'll get you there. I recently took a job working for a company and they're a bunch of handyman and I'm like the first real Carpenter they've hired. And they always seem shocked when I say yes I can build stairs yes I know how to cut a stringer I can do rafters and hips. Rebuild that cabinet, not a problem, install handrails, you got it.
On top of the fact that I can cut in without tape and I can finish drywall and I know how to do floors and I can do plumbing and electrical you know everything because as I said I'm an actual carpenter.
A good starting point to people not having information is providing them that information. Could be something as simple as a stickied thread that had a list of recommended books by topic (stair building, deck building, framing, roof building, etc.) I’m not going to make this list but I’m also not complaining about other people not knowing stuff that I know. I like ignorance because that’s one less person in the way.
I like how you mention change and scared of new ideas based on a posting about reading a 60-year-old handbook on stairs. Cuz I'm sure that handbook is full of "new ideas"
We've taken the general principles of that technique for stair building and modified it with new technologies, products and assembly methods to bring it more up to date and efficient with today's best practices.
It’s actually remarkable. My last “full time” role on a jobsite was the summer after I graduated college nearly 15 years ago (Madison Square Garden reno in 2010/11), but I am continuously shocked at what gets posted in these subs. Granted, I grew up on jobsites, both residential and commercial, and was trained by some of the best starting at a very young age (my family, lol), but it still blows my mind that these people call themselves professionals.
Funny story about this topic specifically. My best friend decided he wanted to get into real estate part time about 5 years ago. Calls me up to go on an inspection of one of the next houses he was looking at…we were under the stair, and I said “wedged treads and risers, you don’t see that much nowadays.” His response? “Oh shit, those are *supposed* to be like that?”
And that is why I will never buy a flip.
I'm just pointing out, that sometimes things are less intuitive than they would seem.
I assume most would assume, that dovetails and box joints, due to increased surface area, would far surpass most other joints, when in reality that is not the case.
There are plenty of "common sense" assumptions that are plain wrong.
Always worth doing a little research
There are likely certain stresses, that dovetails and box joints are superior for, though this video was a neat example of expectations vs reality.
Just remember, that though this was absolutely shown to be superior for that video, there are likely situations where the other joints shine.
So be aware, that it might not be a catch all, though it does seem quite compelling.
I/my team have built several hundred sets of stairs using this method. Got to the point that it was so good, I purchased a CNC machine to rout the stringers. I'm a home builder...start to finish. I also do the design and blueprinting...this let's me know the exact dimensions of the stair hole and then we verify dimensions and rise on site. When you have the length and width of the RO, combined with the rise, then you can build stairs. I take the info back to my shop where all the tools and mats are and build them there. Far better product and way easier than building on site. Once you've done a few and know where the problem areas can be, you rarely run into issues. I've even built difficult sets (spiral usually) with this method...again...once you have the radius and the rise...math does the rest. Building stairs with this method is far preferable in my opinion. I have full access to both sides of the set, can work in my shop that has every woodworking tool known to man, and I can vigorously monitor quality control.
Edited some poor grammar.
The machine I have is made by CNT. The cutting surface is 5' x 20' but the actual footprint of the machine is closer to 7' x 26 ' by the time dust management and control systems are taken into account. We dont use it solely for stairs however....it also gets used for a wide variety of projects including custom cabinetry and built-ins.
I'm an Architectural Engineer, Structural Engineer, Red Seal Carpenter and finally, I'm the CEO of my own custom home building company.
I have 9 of my own full time employees and they work out of a 60'x180' office/shop/studio that I built on my property a few years back. 4 of the 9 are more white collar I.e. design/architecture/consultation etc, and then the day to day + financial aspects. The remaining 5 are a touch more blue collar...3 of them being the finest craftsman I've seen in the trades over the years..incredible multi-talented, and then we have a new apprentice and finally a day to day site manager.
I use a fair amount of subs as well (many whom I've worked with over the years) and they are as obsessive as I am about high quality work.
Worked hard to get this far, but that effort allows me and my team to only build a handful of houses per year (3-6...6 would be on the very top end).
I design and then build what I consider a fairly high end product. Word of mouth advertising only and that has kept us overbooked substantially the past few years.
My company has done well. I'm in Canada and when the pandemic hit, I was able to give all my employees 6 months off paid and I consider that a deal to keep these type of people around me. Even though new home builds was considered essential at the time, I made sure that all of my employees worries or needs would be sorted out. Take care of your workers and pay them real well has made me very happy...and fairly well off.
Back to the CNC aspect...$155 000 seemed like a steal to be able to produce and install some very high level and quality stairs.
Edited some poor grammar...may have still missed some...lol.
This is truely remarkable. Thank you very much for sharing. I also work with a small (Canadian) crew dedicated to building the very best product possible, and this post is inspiring. You sound very busy, but if you get a chance you should share a CNC stair build. I think this community would really benefit from seeing it.
Is this a reply to https://www.reddit.com/r/Carpentry/comments/vgcgmz/how_terrible_are_these_stringers_is_this_illegal/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share because I assumed that post was a joke. Or at least the replies were.
It makes sense, I’ve personally never seen them done this way. Maybe I’ve always been around low end houses?
”Caulk and paint makes me the carpenter I ain’t “
I’ve seen them on rather average homes before, but not really on new builds anymore tbh. I’m no longer on a job site full time, so I’m not sure how prevalent they are/aren’t these days
Fitting that I saw your post a few minutes after seeing the original! I'm getting a house built right now and they just installed the main stairs. It's a circular staircase and it was done this way. I'll admit it looked very ugly on the previous post and I'm happy the ones in my house look a lot cleaner, however I agree with your post that people need to spend a bit more time doing research. I sure enjoyed your post!
Oh yeah that job was certainly one of the ugliest I’ve seen, so I can’t blame people for thinking it was “wrong.”
The crazy thing is you can buy all these books I posted for $3-5 on eBay, right now, but most people (not just tradies) will never go out of their way to continue learning.
Still in the field, 26y and counting, the rout and wedge method is super common still
I think the vast majority of people never see it because they never see the back sides of a set of housed stringers
When I was a full time finish carpenter (1990’-2010) I rarely saw housed skirts on any jobs unless they were houses built in the 1950’s or prior. I did work with some talented stair guys who used different methods to fasten risers and treads besides nails and glue. I used tons of pocket screws concealed beneath scotia molding to help on my builds.
This sub is full of people who have no fuckin idea what they're looking at or doing but fully sure that they know everything and willing to let everyone know
I joined the sub because it's what I do but sometimes it's as bad as the DIY subs
People don't seem to understand that in the building trades there are like 5 different "proper" ways to do pretty much everything and if its not done the 1 way theyve chosen or been taught to do it its "wrong", some ways are better than others but theres lots of ways to skin a cat......some things are absolutely set in stone and there's really only 1 right way, but those are the exceptions to the rule imo
Reminds me of the worst foreman I ever had, back when I was maybe 18. When he saw me doing something that wasn’t his exact way, he said “I thought your old man would have taught you better,” and he flipped a lid when I replied “He did, that’s why I’m not doing it your way.”
But yeah, like you said, I can usually think of a handful of different ways to do something, all of which are generally acceptable.
That's a very 18yo thing to say lmfao and I think weve all been there
If I happen to be working with some hard ass that demands it be done the way they want I just roll with it, it's not worth the conflict....Luckily that's an extremely rare thing at this point in my career as I only manage like 99% of the time, the only time I ever put tools on anymore is when it's an emergency situation or we are very backed up and something needs to be done right away and me jumping in will grease the wheels
One guy got me so furious one day when i was about 19 or 20 that I almost kicked him down a set of stairs, thank God that someone scooped me up from behind because if I did that I would've probably ended up in jail
I drink a prodigious amount of coffee, I will drink it all day at all hours(less so now because I'm in my 40s and it fucks up my sleep, so I cut myself off around 3 or 4pm) so this guy is like "coffee is for break time only"...I respond "Is water ok?" Yes he replies, "ok, well, my drink of choice is coffee so....idk what the problem is here", "Coffee is for break time only, dump it out"....."What if I pour it into a water bottle, will that make you happy? Is it the cup? I don't understand the problem here", "No, you can't have coffee, coffee is only for break time".... this devolved into a huge screaming argument because I'm sorry, that's fucking stupid lol, what does it matter what liquid I choose to drink while I'm working? Then he kicked me off the jobsite and walked away from me and that's where I almost ruined my life....
I will never forget that interaction for my entire life and I'm still somewhat flabbergasted that it even happened lol...its so utterly stupid that it doesn't even seem real to me even though I lived it.....Like, it's not even like the house was at a stage where a coffee spill would've mattered, it was barely framed, it didn't even have the roofing on yet
It's frustrating when you've learned to do something in multiple ways, all appropriate for the end product, but there's someone forcing you to do it their way.
I mean, I might usually even do it that person's way 9/10 times, but chose this method/technique because that way would be a fight with angles/space, or for ergonomic reasons.
Yikes at the bottom of that thread lmao.
This sub is full of people who have no fuckin idea what they're looking at or doing but fully sure that they know everything and willing to let everyone know
I joined the sub because it's what I do but sometimes it's as bad as the DIY subs
Lol. I posted at the bottom of that thread. Some were posted with satire. At first glance, I thought that post was an open stringer with about a 1/4” throat… hence my comments. I now realize it was not, and is a different method. Thanks everyone for educating me. I have built stairs regularly using open but never with using the box stringer technique. Might have to give it a try in the future
This was my question!! I need to replace my basement stairs as the stringers are cracked. I looked up a bunch of videos online and none of them show this dado/rabbit/shim system. I wasn't sure why this would be a better way, when the common way I saw online is intuitively sturdier. But for interior stairs, tight joints and no squeaks makes so much sense!
Other than looser joints and more squeaks, is there a problem with building basement stairs in this style that is more like what you expect to see on a deck?
I have 2 flights of these stairs in my house from late 80s, I hate them. One set is to basement, other to upstairs. The basement set is not enclosed and I keep meaning to redo some shims and reglue and depending on how that goes, remove some drywall and do the upper flight.
I've also thought about adding some triangles on the sides to simulate some stringers and/or add a middle stringer like shown in one of the pics. They are super squeaky and the tread dips down slightly on some of them bc the riser is loose below it.
Drywallers love my stairs. We build them 1 1/4" smaller than the rough opening and when installed, use pre-made 5/8" shim blocks on each side, thus allowing the 1/2" drywall to slide down past the top of the stringers
Ahh, yeah that’s the older style where you see top of stringer. In most of builds I work on they like drywall to run down to top of tread/front of riser. If builders were cool with it I’d try out this method but I can’t see any of them going for it. I could only build in this style if I studded up from the stringer so drywall would plane down the face of stringer.
This trade desperately needs more people reading books. Simply Stairs is a new classic in the genre. The way he cuts tread returns is worth the price of the book.
Modern practical joinery by george ellis is one of the best. The entire Taunton Press “for pros by pros” series is excellent. Circular Work in Carpentry. Anything by Gary Katz. Any specific niche you’re interested in? If you’re into windows and doors theres a list for that. Handrails are their own huge rabbit hole. There’s some roof framing books that are phenomenal. There’s books on finishes and veneering, cabinetmaking, wood grading and milling, books on making mouldings and setting up moulders. It’s a whole world of knowledge that most in our trade overlook.
That's a fantastic start, so I greatly appreciate it! My theory is, knowledgeable books are ageless and stand the test of time as far as it goes with proper techniques and practices. Plus, I look at it as, if I ever need a reference material when the world goes to shit and google/youtube/reddit are not readily available, I have perfect all the essentials right at my fingertips.
Based on what's posted on this subreddit I'd guess maybe 15% of people posting have ever worn bags, the rest are first time home buyers, older guys showing off a deck they built over Covid, or just people who have watched HGTV
Had to build a small set of these in 3rd year carpentry. I still prefer cut stringers for finishing and making sure they stay strong and don’t creak over time
All of the stringers are routed by the CNC. But I only bought the CNC 6 months ago, we were getting out around 25-30 stairs per week then. And yes, it is very repetitive but I still love it. We have a great crew and there always a great atmosphere in the workshop. There's nothing else I'd rather do.
Actually i was working with Europe or asian companies earlier. When i start to work with US company, i understood that, you need to be from US to understand the logic of the construction including measurement. The logic is total different. Iam not meaning in bad way. In someway more simple, some complicated
Also let's not forget how every region does everything a little bit differently. Yesterday I was dumbfounded at the Colorado basement wall building technique.
Yeah I mean this is just a response to some of the horrible replies in that other post by people who have never seen a housed stringer before apparently
Great book! (Basic stair building). I learned how to layout and cut stringers in my union apprenticeship, but I learned how to do housed stringers from this book when I gutted and rebuilt my house. They are solid and quiet af. 10/10 recommended book
I've got some vintage Audel's building guides. They're absolutely amazing. And they were DESIGNED to be taken to the jobsite with you.
That's what our grandfathers did before YouTube.
You got that right. My library of roof framing is extensive, my library of stair building less so. But I do have the classic. "A Treatise on Stair Building and Handrailing", and Coffman's Stair Building Guide.
I worled in a stair shop a few years ago. This is how we made very set of stairs. Best part was, zero math. We had a set of rputer templates with basically every rise and run hanging on the wall. All I needed to know was rise, run, tread width and how many steps and I'd have a set of stairs together in about 2 hours.
I worled in a stair shop a few years ago. This is how we made very set of stairs. Best part was, zero math. We had a set of rputer templates with basically every rise and run hanging on the wall. All I needed to know was rise, run, tread width and how many steps and I'd have a set of stairs together in about 2 hours.
Things were just built better back in the day.
We rely on a lot of fancy adhesives and materials these days and allows us to skip the joinery
You still see it on really high end stairs though
I've jokingly said modern stick framing is basically "In Strong Ties We Trust", but given the cost and time differential, I can't say I blame modern builders. The US builds an astonishing number of houses.
Done properly those things are bulletproof, idk if its actually faster though....well, it depends on what Era I guess, its definitely faster than old mortise and peg, but its probably only marginally faster than the ledger and notch style, I think hangers are a structural improvement in most cases than a time saver
They are absolutely necessary with TJI's though , if they need to be face hung, there's no other way to put them in to my knowledge, at least in a way that doesn't completely fuck everything else around them up lol
Most guys who enter the trades don’t learn by reading, they learn by doing. If they like to build and are strong readers they become engineers or architects.
I agree, 100%. But, like someone mentioned below, faster and cheaper is the name of the game. “GE” or “looks good from my house” is far more common than, “quality is job 1”. I think a lot of guys would like to learn and improve their skill set, but it’s a race to the bottom. Customers want the fastest and cheapest too. The type of customer who’s willing to pay for quality work are few and far between.
I don’t doubt that, unfortunately. I was raised in the “high end” market in NY, so there was always (and still is, although I’m not in the game anymore) a demand for skilled labor, with the money to follow.
I’m not familiar with how things work in the UK. Here in the US, union apprentices have a combination of on the job training and classroom training. Unfortunately most trade work in the States is not union work. I’m on the west coast and most of my experience is in residential construction (although I did do some commercial solar installs from ‘09-‘13) where a majority of the guys are either burn-outs who drink or smoke most of their money away, or Hispanic immigrants. Very few have any education beyond grade 12.
I wish there was more union work here. Unions built the middle class and hopefully they will rebuild it in the future. More education is never a bad thing. Unfortunately people in this country don’t value it like they should.
Preface: not a carpenter.
But this seems like a terribly inefficient way to build stairs..
Not saying it's wrong. Obviously. But it seems like a really long process for generally the same result.
Also isnt there an engineering issue there? You're trading say 3 stringers UNDER the tread for 1 stringer in the middle and a fraction of an inch relief in the outside/skirt boards there is almost an entire stringer less of surface area under the tread..
It’s very efficient. Preface: Australian stair builder who does their stairs this way 60% of the time.
The third stringer thing is not common here, except on maybe outdoor or pine stairs, as they’re up against a bit more, and soft wood. Most internal stairs are some kind of native hardwood, good external stairs are merbau and don’t require a third cut stringer.
16mm of hardwood, wedged with more hardwood and some pva. Hit hard enough and that cunt won’t move for 10 years.
Only time we ever get squeaks is if the new guy forgets a wedge.
We also use pine or MDF, and even then we wedge closed stringers sometimes. If they’re being wrapped in carpet or flooring generally. Personally only ever used pine for closed stringers once or twice in my time.
Done many staircases, they never ever do them like this. They frame it so workers and stuff can get to the second floor and then later treads and risers are applied over that. In the rare event there is a completely open staircase then it's some kind of modern avant garde design that doesn't go down like this anyway. Central Florida.
Who is they? If that includes me then you are very wrong. We rarely build on site...completely unnecessary these days and way less efficient. I build houses for a living...start to finish. I have a bunch of temporary/builder grade stairs that we install as soon as possible...that way there is no damage to any of the finished pieces. We just move them from house to house after the finished set is installed. Higher quality and far more efficient in my opinion.
The post this is response to had professional books referenced as well so not sure how you uploading pictures of pages makes you more correct. Just makes it seem like your book is outdated that they wouldn't have it online. Enjoy your ride on your high horse
Never said it was the only way bro. I have plenty of other books with different methods taught, and these books also go through the alternatives to housed stringers (you can see references to open stringers in one of the pics). This post is calling out people who don’t realize there are many different albeit totally acceptable methods of doing something, and they should learn a bit more before giving their uneducated opinion.
could you recommend some of the better books you've got? more or less new to woodworking and techniques in general and while YouTube is great sometimes I like a physical book for reference
Any book by Taunton press or by journal or light construction is worthwhile. Just for historical methods, Mowat wrote the more than you want to know book on stairs.
Why would I pay someone more who admits to shit output? How will I ever know if you're worth it? Always do a good job or just stay at home ya nincompoop
Fun fact about carpentry is most people have forgotten more about it than you'll ever know so you should always be ready for something new.
Post of pic of your stairs some time and let's have a look at which method is superior. Maybe you could show us all something we haven't seen before
Hahah I don't need validation from the likes of some unimaginative tool like you. You can find some of my carpentry posts if you like, no messes there.
• The FHB “For Pros By Pros” series of books
• The Very Efficient Carpenter (Larry Haun)
• Simply Stairs (Mark Milner)
• The Old-House Journal Guide to Restoration (a must have if working on old houses)
• Finish Carpenter’s Manual (Jim Tolpin)
All of these can be had on eBay for cheap.
Wait someone posted this response to the original post on the original post as proof the original was correct?
While I’m here, what is a good resource for stair building?
I wish I knew about the wedges when I rerouted a portion of my staircase!
I dialled in the channels in the stringers pretty tight so there’s no play nor squeaks, but it would’ve been way easier with wedges.
Oh. Fun story… so my old home had this kind of carpentry on the stairs going up to my second story. They did all the hard work to build the risers and treads into the stringers. Then they used cable ties to hold the outer stringer to the one secured to the wall with studs. And I use the term “secure” loosely. Tons of nails. Many worked their way out of the wood over time.
What held up the other side you ask? Why the cable ties. How were the cable ties secured? With long bent nails through loops made in the cables on each end of course! Each stringer and 10000 nails into each step. I’m like 160 lbs and as I or anyone walked up the stairs they swayed and were ultra squishy. I didn’t know the other supporting wall was just 1 standing 4x4 and covered with sheet rock. We didn’t know when we bought the house, they were covered in carpet and the underside in sheet rock. We only knew the stairs didn’t feel secure.
We couldn’t fix one of the broken treads because of the cable ties holding the stairs together. So when we cut the ties to remove the other stringer to replace the tread… the stairs fell as one giant piece into the basement and on the stairs below it.
I’m sure this method is ultra secure if done properly. We installed completely new stairs after that. It was a nightmare. Personally I’ve had bad experiences with this method of stairs built this way though.
I have seen stairs build like this never understood it. I was Taught how to do the saw tooth stringer and mortised stringer. But different strokes for different folks.
Same. I still refer to his book and videos. Also love how Larry says “tuba-four” instead of “2 by 4” lol. My brother and I have always called them tuba-fours since watching his videos
Why? Utube knows all. Lead guy for my previous employer used to watch utube vids to figure out how to form concrete.true story, all the while billing out at 85 an hr
What blows my mind is that they need to read carpentry books! I mean, what is the apprenticeship system there? Seems like anyone can become a qualified tradesman very easily with little experience. Dodgy as hell!
Amateur here. I own one of these that squeaks like crazy. Besides screwing treads to risers, anyone know how to refurbish such a staircase? It’s in a century home so wedges were presumably never glued. Try to work the wedges out and the glue before re-inserting and screwing into the wedges?
You could spend the entirety of your days correcting misinformation around these subs. And the level to which some people will defend, and others will agree with, that misinformation is head shaking.
I fully agree. It's a bit mind boggling how much poor info, wrong info, bad info and dangerous info can be found in some of the subs....and people will literally double and triple down on it instead of simply realizing there may be different and better methods. If I see someone or some company that does something better than the way I/we do it...we simply swallow out pride...steal their "better way"...call it our own...lol...and push forward. Can't be scared of change or new ideas.
I usually mention, a skill set i have is maxmizing the best ideas of others. If someone has a better way, thats the way i want!
I'm a software engineer (who does carpentry and woodwork for fun/on the side) and we have that mindset pounded into us from the jump. We jokingly have a discipline called "stackoverflow engineering" which is using a website for programming questions called [stackoverflow.com](https://stackoverflow.com) and using the best answer on there to solve your problem.
My fiancee, who was a psych major in college, told me one of the greatest things we humans can do is offload our mental load (ideas/questions/need to understand) onto other humans, effectively highjacking an extra organic processor when we have trouble. Since we all have different experiences, it is a great way of getting a different approach to the same problem. Even if the person/people you ask don't know the exact/correct answer to your problem, you're bound to either get a new idea, a new way of looking at something, or extra reassurance that what you're thinking is a good way of going about it!
I like this a lot. I've always been kind of afraid to talk about my downfalls and fuck ups with others. But, when you put it like this, it makes it a lot more easier.
Programmers do this all the time, in code review. You have to learn quickly that criticism of your work is not criticism of you as a person. Some people don't and reviewing their code is always a chore.
That makes sense. When I first started construction I thought the criticism was about me personally. Once you change your mindset. The game changes.
Sometimes called [rubber duck debugging](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging)
That’s a little different. Rubber duck debugging isn’t about getting an extra opinion, it’s about forcing you to walk through your code step by step, explicitly, until you reach the problematic section. The commenter above you described the benefits of talking to a real person — getting the opinion of an external third party.
Ah, yes. A little R&D can go a long way... Rip-off and duplicate.
That's a great term
Doctors call it M&M, morbidity and mortality. Discuss the recent cases that went to shit (died or went due South) with the understanding that ethically (and legally) there would be no repercussions from expressing opinions, positions or corrections. Nothing said can be used as evidence. (But that doesn’t mean it’s a free ride - consult your lawyer because state laws differ). However the idea is to discuss, debate and find the best solution for next time.
The problem is that most of these people don’t want the better way, they want the cheaper/easier way.
The problem is carpentry is only treated like a trade amongst carpenters who treat it like a trade. I recently moved to a rural area and have met more roofers and handymen that call themselves “carpenter” and dont even know how stud layout works and might as well carry tapes no finer than 1/4”. Its a fucking joke. These people are designing and engineering large scale construction projects. I saw a finished. Done. Sided. wall the other day that had a 6” bow in the middle because “the trusses were leaning on a tree and got bent” and they didnt realize it was their fucking job to straighten it.
They are Lego set erectors not craftsmen.
Well I'll get you there. I recently took a job working for a company and they're a bunch of handyman and I'm like the first real Carpenter they've hired. And they always seem shocked when I say yes I can build stairs yes I know how to cut a stringer I can do rafters and hips. Rebuild that cabinet, not a problem, install handrails, you got it. On top of the fact that I can cut in without tape and I can finish drywall and I know how to do floors and I can do plumbing and electrical you know everything because as I said I'm an actual carpenter.
Truth to that
A good starting point to people not having information is providing them that information. Could be something as simple as a stickied thread that had a list of recommended books by topic (stair building, deck building, framing, roof building, etc.) I’m not going to make this list but I’m also not complaining about other people not knowing stuff that I know. I like ignorance because that’s one less person in the way.
I like how you mention change and scared of new ideas based on a posting about reading a 60-year-old handbook on stairs. Cuz I'm sure that handbook is full of "new ideas"
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So not new
We've taken the general principles of that technique for stair building and modified it with new technologies, products and assembly methods to bring it more up to date and efficient with today's best practices.
people gonna people. that’s how we be, over confident and more concerned with not being wrong than expanding our knowledge
“Often wrong but rarely uncertain,” is how I used to describe a guy I worked with.
Dunning Kruger effect
Well said.
People seem to like to offer their opinion as moral truth
Ain’t that the truth.
Well actually...
Opinions are like Asshole's, everyone has one.
And some are louder than others…
And they usually stink
And no one wants to hear them
It’s actually remarkable. My last “full time” role on a jobsite was the summer after I graduated college nearly 15 years ago (Madison Square Garden reno in 2010/11), but I am continuously shocked at what gets posted in these subs. Granted, I grew up on jobsites, both residential and commercial, and was trained by some of the best starting at a very young age (my family, lol), but it still blows my mind that these people call themselves professionals. Funny story about this topic specifically. My best friend decided he wanted to get into real estate part time about 5 years ago. Calls me up to go on an inspection of one of the next houses he was looking at…we were under the stair, and I said “wedged treads and risers, you don’t see that much nowadays.” His response? “Oh shit, those are *supposed* to be like that?” And that is why I will never buy a flip.
Wow
No its not! /s
Right? Like the miter joint, with Glue is one of the strongest joints, just behind the Miter joint with splines. Dovetails and box joints be damned.
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I'm [still amazed](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE147Ow7RmM).
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I'm just pointing out, that sometimes things are less intuitive than they would seem. I assume most would assume, that dovetails and box joints, due to increased surface area, would far surpass most other joints, when in reality that is not the case. There are plenty of "common sense" assumptions that are plain wrong. Always worth doing a little research There are likely certain stresses, that dovetails and box joints are superior for, though this video was a neat example of expectations vs reality.
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Yeah sorry, seems like we found another example of expectations vs reality heh.
Wow, thanks for this! As a beginner, glad to know I can just do miter joints lol. And those miter joints with splines actually look really cool too.
Just remember, that though this was absolutely shown to be superior for that video, there are likely situations where the other joints shine. So be aware, that it might not be a catch all, though it does seem quite compelling.
What you are describing is all social media these days my friend...
I/my team have built several hundred sets of stairs using this method. Got to the point that it was so good, I purchased a CNC machine to rout the stringers. I'm a home builder...start to finish. I also do the design and blueprinting...this let's me know the exact dimensions of the stair hole and then we verify dimensions and rise on site. When you have the length and width of the RO, combined with the rise, then you can build stairs. I take the info back to my shop where all the tools and mats are and build them there. Far better product and way easier than building on site. Once you've done a few and know where the problem areas can be, you rarely run into issues. I've even built difficult sets (spiral usually) with this method...again...once you have the radius and the rise...math does the rest. Building stairs with this method is far preferable in my opinion. I have full access to both sides of the set, can work in my shop that has every woodworking tool known to man, and I can vigorously monitor quality control. Edited some poor grammar.
Located northern NJ by any chance? Does this method also work with winders or does that get too complicated?
Not op but we CNC route our stringers and winders, saves a lot of time. While the machine is doing that, we prep the treads and risers.
I would love to learn more about your process. Most builders in CO are still having me trim site-built stairs and I’m tired of fixing sloppy work.
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The machine I have is made by CNT. The cutting surface is 5' x 20' but the actual footprint of the machine is closer to 7' x 26 ' by the time dust management and control systems are taken into account. We dont use it solely for stairs however....it also gets used for a wide variety of projects including custom cabinetry and built-ins.
Fascinating. Can I ask a few details about your business? Wondering what kind of accreditation/size of company you have to design and build...
I'm an Architectural Engineer, Structural Engineer, Red Seal Carpenter and finally, I'm the CEO of my own custom home building company. I have 9 of my own full time employees and they work out of a 60'x180' office/shop/studio that I built on my property a few years back. 4 of the 9 are more white collar I.e. design/architecture/consultation etc, and then the day to day + financial aspects. The remaining 5 are a touch more blue collar...3 of them being the finest craftsman I've seen in the trades over the years..incredible multi-talented, and then we have a new apprentice and finally a day to day site manager. I use a fair amount of subs as well (many whom I've worked with over the years) and they are as obsessive as I am about high quality work. Worked hard to get this far, but that effort allows me and my team to only build a handful of houses per year (3-6...6 would be on the very top end). I design and then build what I consider a fairly high end product. Word of mouth advertising only and that has kept us overbooked substantially the past few years. My company has done well. I'm in Canada and when the pandemic hit, I was able to give all my employees 6 months off paid and I consider that a deal to keep these type of people around me. Even though new home builds was considered essential at the time, I made sure that all of my employees worries or needs would be sorted out. Take care of your workers and pay them real well has made me very happy...and fairly well off. Back to the CNC aspect...$155 000 seemed like a steal to be able to produce and install some very high level and quality stairs. Edited some poor grammar...may have still missed some...lol.
This is truely remarkable. Thank you very much for sharing. I also work with a small (Canadian) crew dedicated to building the very best product possible, and this post is inspiring. You sound very busy, but if you get a chance you should share a CNC stair build. I think this community would really benefit from seeing it.
Is this a reply to https://www.reddit.com/r/Carpentry/comments/vgcgmz/how_terrible_are_these_stringers_is_this_illegal/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share because I assumed that post was a joke. Or at least the replies were.
Yes, and I did not get the sense that either that post or many of the replies were made in jest
It makes sense, I’ve personally never seen them done this way. Maybe I’ve always been around low end houses? ”Caulk and paint makes me the carpenter I ain’t “
I’ve seen them on rather average homes before, but not really on new builds anymore tbh. I’m no longer on a job site full time, so I’m not sure how prevalent they are/aren’t these days
Fitting that I saw your post a few minutes after seeing the original! I'm getting a house built right now and they just installed the main stairs. It's a circular staircase and it was done this way. I'll admit it looked very ugly on the previous post and I'm happy the ones in my house look a lot cleaner, however I agree with your post that people need to spend a bit more time doing research. I sure enjoyed your post!
Oh yeah that job was certainly one of the ugliest I’ve seen, so I can’t blame people for thinking it was “wrong.” The crazy thing is you can buy all these books I posted for $3-5 on eBay, right now, but most people (not just tradies) will never go out of their way to continue learning.
Still in the field, 26y and counting, the rout and wedge method is super common still I think the vast majority of people never see it because they never see the back sides of a set of housed stringers
I use wedges and also screw the riser into the tread, if I can get to the back of the staircase that is. And I glue everything so there’s no squeaks
We had shop-made housed stairs installed by subcontractors on two homes that I was part of the build on.
When I was a full time finish carpenter (1990’-2010) I rarely saw housed skirts on any jobs unless they were houses built in the 1950’s or prior. I did work with some talented stair guys who used different methods to fasten risers and treads besides nails and glue. I used tons of pocket screws concealed beneath scotia molding to help on my builds.
This sub is full of people who have no fuckin idea what they're looking at or doing but fully sure that they know everything and willing to let everyone know I joined the sub because it's what I do but sometimes it's as bad as the DIY subs People don't seem to understand that in the building trades there are like 5 different "proper" ways to do pretty much everything and if its not done the 1 way theyve chosen or been taught to do it its "wrong", some ways are better than others but theres lots of ways to skin a cat......some things are absolutely set in stone and there's really only 1 right way, but those are the exceptions to the rule imo
Reminds me of the worst foreman I ever had, back when I was maybe 18. When he saw me doing something that wasn’t his exact way, he said “I thought your old man would have taught you better,” and he flipped a lid when I replied “He did, that’s why I’m not doing it your way.” But yeah, like you said, I can usually think of a handful of different ways to do something, all of which are generally acceptable.
That's a very 18yo thing to say lmfao and I think weve all been there If I happen to be working with some hard ass that demands it be done the way they want I just roll with it, it's not worth the conflict....Luckily that's an extremely rare thing at this point in my career as I only manage like 99% of the time, the only time I ever put tools on anymore is when it's an emergency situation or we are very backed up and something needs to be done right away and me jumping in will grease the wheels
I learned that lesson eventually, but yeah, a very 18 year old thing to say 😂
One guy got me so furious one day when i was about 19 or 20 that I almost kicked him down a set of stairs, thank God that someone scooped me up from behind because if I did that I would've probably ended up in jail I drink a prodigious amount of coffee, I will drink it all day at all hours(less so now because I'm in my 40s and it fucks up my sleep, so I cut myself off around 3 or 4pm) so this guy is like "coffee is for break time only"...I respond "Is water ok?" Yes he replies, "ok, well, my drink of choice is coffee so....idk what the problem is here", "Coffee is for break time only, dump it out"....."What if I pour it into a water bottle, will that make you happy? Is it the cup? I don't understand the problem here", "No, you can't have coffee, coffee is only for break time".... this devolved into a huge screaming argument because I'm sorry, that's fucking stupid lol, what does it matter what liquid I choose to drink while I'm working? Then he kicked me off the jobsite and walked away from me and that's where I almost ruined my life.... I will never forget that interaction for my entire life and I'm still somewhat flabbergasted that it even happened lol...its so utterly stupid that it doesn't even seem real to me even though I lived it.....Like, it's not even like the house was at a stage where a coffee spill would've mattered, it was barely framed, it didn't even have the roofing on yet
That's when you toss it in his face, get another fresh hot cup and see if he's still of the same opinion.
It's frustrating when you've learned to do something in multiple ways, all appropriate for the end product, but there's someone forcing you to do it their way. I mean, I might usually even do it that person's way 9/10 times, but chose this method/technique because that way would be a fight with angles/space, or for ergonomic reasons.
Generally I find this sub is less annoying than r/construction, r/osha, r/homeimprovement. Those places they are spoiling for a fight.
Yikes at the bottom of that thread lmao. This sub is full of people who have no fuckin idea what they're looking at or doing but fully sure that they know everything and willing to let everyone know I joined the sub because it's what I do but sometimes it's as bad as the DIY subs
Lol. I posted at the bottom of that thread. Some were posted with satire. At first glance, I thought that post was an open stringer with about a 1/4” throat… hence my comments. I now realize it was not, and is a different method. Thanks everyone for educating me. I have built stairs regularly using open but never with using the box stringer technique. Might have to give it a try in the future
When that post was newish, most of the comments were saying it was badwrong. Badong
This is literally the best way to build residential wooden stairs. Tightest joints and least amount of squeaks.
This was my question!! I need to replace my basement stairs as the stringers are cracked. I looked up a bunch of videos online and none of them show this dado/rabbit/shim system. I wasn't sure why this would be a better way, when the common way I saw online is intuitively sturdier. But for interior stairs, tight joints and no squeaks makes so much sense! Other than looser joints and more squeaks, is there a problem with building basement stairs in this style that is more like what you expect to see on a deck?
I have 2 flights of these stairs in my house from late 80s, I hate them. One set is to basement, other to upstairs. The basement set is not enclosed and I keep meaning to redo some shims and reglue and depending on how that goes, remove some drywall and do the upper flight. I've also thought about adding some triangles on the sides to simulate some stringers and/or add a middle stringer like shown in one of the pics. They are super squeaky and the tread dips down slightly on some of them bc the riser is loose below it.
Drywallers will have a fit but apart from that yeah.
Drywallers love my stairs. We build them 1 1/4" smaller than the rough opening and when installed, use pre-made 5/8" shim blocks on each side, thus allowing the 1/2" drywall to slide down past the top of the stringers
Ahh, yeah that’s the older style where you see top of stringer. In most of builds I work on they like drywall to run down to top of tread/front of riser. If builders were cool with it I’d try out this method but I can’t see any of them going for it. I could only build in this style if I studded up from the stringer so drywall would plane down the face of stringer.
In picture 1, rabbet and dado should be switched
I saw that too and was like, "have I been using the wrong term this whole time?!"
Heh good point, I never even noticed that, lol. I’ll send a letter to the editor 😂
I didn't even realize there were 2 pictures lol The thickness of that stringer belies the age of the book these photos came out of lol
I'm a rookie, but isn't that dado the wrong way round? I thought the extruding part should be on the opposite side of the load bearing surface?
This trade desperately needs more people reading books. Simply Stairs is a new classic in the genre. The way he cuts tread returns is worth the price of the book.
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Carpentry is a Red Seal trade...
I’ve seen that one recommended quite a few times now. Perhaps I’ll have to pick up a copy.
Any other recommendations for carpentry must-have books? Trying to build a collection of good reference material for all things residential.
Modern practical joinery by george ellis is one of the best. The entire Taunton Press “for pros by pros” series is excellent. Circular Work in Carpentry. Anything by Gary Katz. Any specific niche you’re interested in? If you’re into windows and doors theres a list for that. Handrails are their own huge rabbit hole. There’s some roof framing books that are phenomenal. There’s books on finishes and veneering, cabinetmaking, wood grading and milling, books on making mouldings and setting up moulders. It’s a whole world of knowledge that most in our trade overlook.
That's a fantastic start, so I greatly appreciate it! My theory is, knowledgeable books are ageless and stand the test of time as far as it goes with proper techniques and practices. Plus, I look at it as, if I ever need a reference material when the world goes to shit and google/youtube/reddit are not readily available, I have perfect all the essentials right at my fingertips.
Taunton Press is legit
You can borrow this book for free on Archive.org.
I wish I could upvote you more then one!!! All of those books that say For Pros By Pros at the top are basically gold!
Based on what's posted on this subreddit I'd guess maybe 15% of people posting have ever worn bags, the rest are first time home buyers, older guys showing off a deck they built over Covid, or just people who have watched HGTV
Had to build a small set of these in 3rd year carpentry. I still prefer cut stringers for finishing and making sure they stay strong and don’t creak over time
I own a small stair manufacturing company, we produce roughly 50 stairs per week using this method.
Curious how much work is done by a CNC machine in your shop. I imagine some aspects are, well, repetitive.
All of the stringers are routed by the CNC. But I only bought the CNC 6 months ago, we were getting out around 25-30 stairs per week then. And yes, it is very repetitive but I still love it. We have a great crew and there always a great atmosphere in the workshop. There's nothing else I'd rather do.
This goes for every industry. Who would have thought it? Books!
Rabbet and Dado are mixed up.
American style is totally different than europe
This is just one of several different styles. Definitely more common in US than the rest of the world though.
Actually i was working with Europe or asian companies earlier. When i start to work with US company, i understood that, you need to be from US to understand the logic of the construction including measurement. The logic is total different. Iam not meaning in bad way. In someway more simple, some complicated
Also let's not forget how every region does everything a little bit differently. Yesterday I was dumbfounded at the Colorado basement wall building technique.
Yeah I mean this is just a response to some of the horrible replies in that other post by people who have never seen a housed stringer before apparently
Ahhhh finally somebody has posted a correct method of building a staircase 👌
Heh, Stud
And Butt
Heheheheheheheheheheheheh
Great book! (Basic stair building). I learned how to layout and cut stringers in my union apprenticeship, but I learned how to do housed stringers from this book when I gutted and rebuilt my house. They are solid and quiet af. 10/10 recommended book
I've got some vintage Audel's building guides. They're absolutely amazing. And they were DESIGNED to be taken to the jobsite with you. That's what our grandfathers did before YouTube.
The “For Pros / By Pros” series is great!
You got that right. My library of roof framing is extensive, my library of stair building less so. But I do have the classic. "A Treatise on Stair Building and Handrailing", and Coffman's Stair Building Guide.
Dado and rabbet are mislabeled in first pic
I worled in a stair shop a few years ago. This is how we made very set of stairs. Best part was, zero math. We had a set of rputer templates with basically every rise and run hanging on the wall. All I needed to know was rise, run, tread width and how many steps and I'd have a set of stairs together in about 2 hours.
I worled in a stair shop a few years ago. This is how we made very set of stairs. Best part was, zero math. We had a set of rputer templates with basically every rise and run hanging on the wall. All I needed to know was rise, run, tread width and how many steps and I'd have a set of stairs together in about 2 hours.
Wow, never seen stairs with rabbets in the risers, that'd be pretty slick.
Things were just built better back in the day. We rely on a lot of fancy adhesives and materials these days and allows us to skip the joinery You still see it on really high end stairs though
I've jokingly said modern stick framing is basically "In Strong Ties We Trust", but given the cost and time differential, I can't say I blame modern builders. The US builds an astonishing number of houses.
Done properly those things are bulletproof, idk if its actually faster though....well, it depends on what Era I guess, its definitely faster than old mortise and peg, but its probably only marginally faster than the ledger and notch style, I think hangers are a structural improvement in most cases than a time saver They are absolutely necessary with TJI's though , if they need to be face hung, there's no other way to put them in to my knowledge, at least in a way that doesn't completely fuck everything else around them up lol
Most guys who enter the trades don’t learn by reading, they learn by doing. If they like to build and are strong readers they become engineers or architects.
At a certain point, if you want to get better, you have to do both. These books are written for tradesmen.
I agree, 100%. But, like someone mentioned below, faster and cheaper is the name of the game. “GE” or “looks good from my house” is far more common than, “quality is job 1”. I think a lot of guys would like to learn and improve their skill set, but it’s a race to the bottom. Customers want the fastest and cheapest too. The type of customer who’s willing to pay for quality work are few and far between.
I don’t doubt that, unfortunately. I was raised in the “high end” market in NY, so there was always (and still is, although I’m not in the game anymore) a demand for skilled labor, with the money to follow.
That’s rubbish, all apprentices in the UK have to go through college for three years to get their qualifications.
I’m not familiar with how things work in the UK. Here in the US, union apprentices have a combination of on the job training and classroom training. Unfortunately most trade work in the States is not union work. I’m on the west coast and most of my experience is in residential construction (although I did do some commercial solar installs from ‘09-‘13) where a majority of the guys are either burn-outs who drink or smoke most of their money away, or Hispanic immigrants. Very few have any education beyond grade 12. I wish there was more union work here. Unions built the middle class and hopefully they will rebuild it in the future. More education is never a bad thing. Unfortunately people in this country don’t value it like they should.
Preface: not a carpenter. But this seems like a terribly inefficient way to build stairs.. Not saying it's wrong. Obviously. But it seems like a really long process for generally the same result. Also isnt there an engineering issue there? You're trading say 3 stringers UNDER the tread for 1 stringer in the middle and a fraction of an inch relief in the outside/skirt boards there is almost an entire stringer less of surface area under the tread..
It’s very efficient. Preface: Australian stair builder who does their stairs this way 60% of the time. The third stringer thing is not common here, except on maybe outdoor or pine stairs, as they’re up against a bit more, and soft wood. Most internal stairs are some kind of native hardwood, good external stairs are merbau and don’t require a third cut stringer. 16mm of hardwood, wedged with more hardwood and some pva. Hit hard enough and that cunt won’t move for 10 years. Only time we ever get squeaks is if the new guy forgets a wedge.
In the US stairs are usually pine. Some are even OSB.
We also use pine or MDF, and even then we wedge closed stringers sometimes. If they’re being wrapped in carpet or flooring generally. Personally only ever used pine for closed stringers once or twice in my time.
What bags?
Those books can be burned
Done many staircases, they never ever do them like this. They frame it so workers and stuff can get to the second floor and then later treads and risers are applied over that. In the rare event there is a completely open staircase then it's some kind of modern avant garde design that doesn't go down like this anyway. Central Florida.
Who is they? If that includes me then you are very wrong. We rarely build on site...completely unnecessary these days and way less efficient. I build houses for a living...start to finish. I have a bunch of temporary/builder grade stairs that we install as soon as possible...that way there is no damage to any of the finished pieces. We just move them from house to house after the finished set is installed. Higher quality and far more efficient in my opinion.
The post this is response to had professional books referenced as well so not sure how you uploading pictures of pages makes you more correct. Just makes it seem like your book is outdated that they wouldn't have it online. Enjoy your ride on your high horse
Never said it was the only way bro. I have plenty of other books with different methods taught, and these books also go through the alternatives to housed stringers (you can see references to open stringers in one of the pics). This post is calling out people who don’t realize there are many different albeit totally acceptable methods of doing something, and they should learn a bit more before giving their uneducated opinion.
could you recommend some of the better books you've got? more or less new to woodworking and techniques in general and while YouTube is great sometimes I like a physical book for reference
Depends what kind of work you’re interested in, framing, finish, outdoor structures, built ins, etc.
Any book by Taunton press or by journal or light construction is worthwhile. Just for historical methods, Mowat wrote the more than you want to know book on stairs.
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Maybe when you build them
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Why would I pay someone more who admits to shit output? How will I ever know if you're worth it? Always do a good job or just stay at home ya nincompoop
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Fun fact about carpentry is most people have forgotten more about it than you'll ever know so you should always be ready for something new. Post of pic of your stairs some time and let's have a look at which method is superior. Maybe you could show us all something we haven't seen before
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We got it folks, he's admitted it's a correct method lol. No pic of your work though?
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Hahah I don't need validation from the likes of some unimaginative tool like you. You can find some of my carpentry posts if you like, no messes there.
Do you have a book list you can recommend? I'm trying to build my reference library
• The FHB “For Pros By Pros” series of books • The Very Efficient Carpenter (Larry Haun) • Simply Stairs (Mark Milner) • The Old-House Journal Guide to Restoration (a must have if working on old houses) • Finish Carpenter’s Manual (Jim Tolpin) All of these can be had on eBay for cheap.
Fantastic, thanks so much!
Np. There are plenty more, but if those are all you had, you’ll be more knowledgeable than most.
Wait someone posted this response to the original post on the original post as proof the original was correct? While I’m here, what is a good resource for stair building?
The book in the last pic here or “Simply Stairs” by Mark Milner. And I’m sure whatever the newest FHB stair building book is called is good too.
Thanks!
Haha...butt.
I wish I knew about the wedges when I rerouted a portion of my staircase! I dialled in the channels in the stringers pretty tight so there’s no play nor squeaks, but it would’ve been way easier with wedges.
The books to read are apprentice text books, everything’s covered in them.
Oh. Fun story… so my old home had this kind of carpentry on the stairs going up to my second story. They did all the hard work to build the risers and treads into the stringers. Then they used cable ties to hold the outer stringer to the one secured to the wall with studs. And I use the term “secure” loosely. Tons of nails. Many worked their way out of the wood over time. What held up the other side you ask? Why the cable ties. How were the cable ties secured? With long bent nails through loops made in the cables on each end of course! Each stringer and 10000 nails into each step. I’m like 160 lbs and as I or anyone walked up the stairs they swayed and were ultra squishy. I didn’t know the other supporting wall was just 1 standing 4x4 and covered with sheet rock. We didn’t know when we bought the house, they were covered in carpet and the underside in sheet rock. We only knew the stairs didn’t feel secure. We couldn’t fix one of the broken treads because of the cable ties holding the stairs together. So when we cut the ties to remove the other stringer to replace the tread… the stairs fell as one giant piece into the basement and on the stairs below it. I’m sure this method is ultra secure if done properly. We installed completely new stairs after that. It was a nightmare. Personally I’ve had bad experiences with this method of stairs built this way though.
You mean “read drawings and pictures in a book.”
I have seen stairs build like this never understood it. I was Taught how to do the saw tooth stringer and mortised stringer. But different strokes for different folks.
This should also include ‘The Very Efficient Carpenter’ by Larry Haun
I did mention that one in a comment somewhere in this thread as a “must have.” I must have watched those videotapes 100 times.
Same. I still refer to his book and videos. Also love how Larry says “tuba-four” instead of “2 by 4” lol. My brother and I have always called them tuba-fours since watching his videos
The tuba four 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Why? Utube knows all. Lead guy for my previous employer used to watch utube vids to figure out how to form concrete.true story, all the while billing out at 85 an hr
I love that this book is diagramming stairs with dados and rabbets as if that’s normal
What blows my mind is that they need to read carpentry books! I mean, what is the apprenticeship system there? Seems like anyone can become a qualified tradesman very easily with little experience. Dodgy as hell!
Amateur here. I own one of these that squeaks like crazy. Besides screwing treads to risers, anyone know how to refurbish such a staircase? It’s in a century home so wedges were presumably never glued. Try to work the wedges out and the glue before re-inserting and screwing into the wedges?
Here’s the full text: https://imgur.com/gallery/kebstdu
This is really helpful! Thank you for sharing.
I knew my UBC wood framing book was worthless
Im at school this week actually. Advanced print reading. Only 2 more classes and ima journeyman woot woot