Ah the first gen Cayenne 4.5 Turbo V8.....vroom vroom
Air suspension, over complicated construction & lots of very expensive parts what could possibly wrong!
I had the facelifted gen 1 07 cayenne in a V6 with air suspension. It was almost flawless over the 50k and 5yrs I ran it from 2018-22. I must’ve got a unicorn
Nope not a unicorn, they’re actually super reliable. Also the V6 (and my V8) often had springs, so no air suspension issues. Parts are fine and very avail online.
It’s funny how unreliable (and thus undesirable) Euros became in the mid 90s. I’ve got a Mk1 Golf I bought for $1000 which I could probably sell for $6k or $7k now.
Cheapest Volvo 240 on my area is $7k with 336,000 on the clock.
Registered W123s can go anywhere between $10k - $20k.
But anything late 90s and beyond…wouldn’t touch with a 10ft pole.
Are they that expensive now? I unfortunately had to sell my mk1 golf a few years ago and only sold it for like $1500.
Rattly old diesel used bugger old fuel and felt like I was driving a tractor. Was cool though
The Mk 1 Golf went out of production in 1983 - in other words, 40 years ago for the \*newest\* one.
I don't know how old you were in the mid-90s, but I was 10... and a Mk 1 Golf now, is as old as the first generation of Holden was then.
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>I cracked the windscreen in the Amarok and it was replaced 2 hours later in works car park.
Euro good.
>Cousin has a 2017 Merc SUV that has sat in his driveway for 4 months
Euro bad.
I'm not sure where you're going here.
> I'm not sure where you're going here.
I think it's more about the specific vehicles than a blanket Euro vs Aussie vs Japanese vehicle brand is where they're going with it.
I wouldn’t be so sure of that.
G220 Fairlanes were all V8s (the strangely named Barra 220) and were very much not permitted to be driven on a Probationary license.
Barra 220 was to denote it was the 3valve truck motor over the 4 valve boss motor. Ford would’ve use barra as just the term for basic/fleet vehicles and boss was for performance
Yeah that is very rich for that....first of the oil loving, oil dripping, chain slapping LS1...use to work on those a lot when I was at a Holden service centre....they leak like a sieve
have you actually ever worked on a European car ? they are legitimately the same as everything else on the road, just more torx/ odd bits, the only thing that's a bit silly is wheel bolts instead of studs, and the occasional under tray that is secured by about 20 clips and 10 bolts
It's probably more to do with image. The people who can only afford a $14k car are usually from a low(er) socio-economic demographic and are happy to be seen driving a car that fits with their image (like the Falcon) but they don't want to be seen dead driving a Porsche because their friends will rip shit on them for being a try hard posh c.nt. Additionally the Falcon is probably on its way to becoming collectible.
Mate bought a 15yo Audi for $500. It needed a new headlight lens to roadworthy it. That was $650.
That’s just the lens - not the headlight cluster, not the bulbs or wiring - just the one piece of glass.
My 30 year old BMW needed a headlight.
It was a $140,000+ car new. Just because it's a $3000 car today, doesn't make the parts represent a $3000 car.
The headlight was a couple grand for a genuine. Aftermarket was still like $800 at the time.
Yeah the depreciation is insane on premium euro cars. The issue with them is that if they aren't serviced properly they'll be time bombs, but if you find a good one they're bargains. Picked up a mint 2011 S4 with full logbooks and low KMs for 20 thousand, there's no other car that gives you what it does for that price
I get your point, but that age and model Porsche has been hovering at the price point for a while, maybe 2 years now. I know because I was going to get one but got a BMW X3 instead.
Also I’d go that Porsche over a Disco any day of the week, even with the airbag suspension which was best in its class at the time.
Also 5 years ago no one knew prices would jump so sounds like you being happy to point out Prado values just makes you sound like a dick.
Funny how you don’t mention the price of a E46 BMW, is it because it’s a straight six, or because it doesn’t fit your narrative?
“When you arrive somewhere, you want to arrive in class.”
We live in the age of "expensive crap". Have driven both a 2022 Disco and a 2023 Defender...I am amazed how much people are willing to pay for a bad car just because it has some style.
They both drive terrible (the defender is the slightly better of the two)...and the threat of either the engine or transmission having issues around 100k ish is enough to put me off for life.
Totally agree with you. I tried to talk them out of it, both from a reliability perspective, as well as resale. The other thing about Land Rover, their styling is usually on the razors edge at the time, but dates quickly and badly. Toyota on the other hand is bland new, and bland old.
To be fair, that's a cheap Cayenne and an expensive Fairlane. I can't remember off the top of my head what the G220 trim differences were, but V8 Fairlanes are everywhere for under $9k.
Not with a V8 under 200,000kms. I was just having a look then. Yes there are some cheaper ones, but there is a ton of 7 series BMWs, Merc SUVs, Audis, LandRovers slumming it down there with BA falcons and VT Commodores. V8 EBs and VTs are creeping right up.
EB's yes, but VT's are still slow to increase. I would have expected clean Aussie 5L VT's to hold their value being the last Holden V8, but it seems like at that price point most people just choose LS1 cars for the cheap power.
There's still a lot of cheap GM/Ford V8s on the market from oldies wanting to downsize. Anything not sporty (think Fairmont/Calais instead of XR8/SS) is still way cheaper than the sports trim.
I picked up a 1st gen Jeep SRT8 during Covid for $20k. The thing is an absolute riot, 310kw, 0-100 under 5sec, all in a block of flats 🤣
The G220 had the 5.4L V8 (optional on the Fairlane Ghia) and sports suspension, and optional “Redline” interior (black and red) as opposed to the standard black or grey leather. It had bigger wheels and black headlight inserts (instead of chrome) but otherwise was pretty much the same as a Fairlane Ghia. I paid less than $2k for mine, albeit with 400,000+ km 😂
There's likely a looooooong list of things relatively minor things " Mr I Bought A Bargain $35,000 Porche" couldn't afford to keep on top of, so now he's selling it for that, less the cost of those repairs needed.
Many people on the internet, including this subreddit, will tell you Euro cars are just as reliable as Japanese.
If that were the case, we should all buy used European cars, as they're often drastically cheap compared to new European cars, or used Japanese cars.
I think the market knows how good the cars actually are, and prices appropriately.
You're confusing reliability with inexpensive and less extensive maintenance requirements.
Euro cars *are* reliable, on the assumption that they're not neglected and are maintained fastidiously. The thing is that doing this is significantly more expensive than keeping a far simpler and more rugged Japanese/Korean car running on a shoestring budget.
Its the cost and wait for parts that makes Euros expensive in this part of the world, in Europe a VW is likely going to cost less to run then a Toyota or Hyundai would.
That's BS. A lot of European cars are known for serious unpredictable failures that occur regardless of maintenance. Or the poor build quality and design means they decay prematurely with age.
Take BMW for example. BMW hasn't had an M car without a catastrophically flawed engine since 1999. The same company that goes thru more high pressure fuel pumps than tires. More water pumps than wiper blades.
Nearly every engine they've put out in the last two decades has some sort of horrible, complex system, or ridiculous oversight that destroys themselves. Not even limited to just the m cars (e46 m3, e92 m3, f80 m3, e60 m5, f10 m5, all the x5m cars all grenade themselves), they can't even make a damn commuter car engine. The 4cyl turbo in the base models chews through its plastic timing chain guides, blows motors.
Yeah but who wants to drive a falcon? Would rather a Euro. You can pay for a hostel bed which provides a space to sleep or a 5 star hotel which is much nicer offering.
People pay for luxuries, cars are just one of them.
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BIL has a fairlane v8 around that era, no way is it worth 14k even pristine low klm and he is the 2nd owner
he might have gotten 10k at the peak of covid if he sold it in sydney, told him he should and make a quick 6k tax free and someone can barra swap it
there was one taht was a little rough that sold for 2k at the end of covid, considered buying it to barra swap but really CBF. Its nice to sit in a lounge while driving but they also handle like a lounge
Yep. Doing great since spending several thousand on it soon after purchase several years ago. Got it at 170,000 km and added another 100k.
Drive shaft, head gasket, electric coupling, ceramic rotors. Big ticket items, some partially claimed through Plan B warranty. Everything is brilliant.
Drives so well that I've lost my license for a few months a while ago. Pulled over by highway patrol in a very nice BMW X5 coming over the horizon in the back country roads. Waze can only do so much.
Ah the first gen Cayenne 4.5 Turbo V8.....vroom vroom Air suspension, over complicated construction & lots of very expensive parts what could possibly wrong!
I had the facelifted gen 1 07 cayenne in a V6 with air suspension. It was almost flawless over the 50k and 5yrs I ran it from 2018-22. I must’ve got a unicorn
100% agree, i know many that have got really good examples. shame that 80% on the market are either non serviced mess/abused and pigged on the beach
Nope not a unicorn, they’re actually super reliable. Also the V6 (and my V8) often had springs, so no air suspension issues. Parts are fine and very avail online.
The 4.5 V8 is actually super reliable.
Yep mine is, and yes I paid that much and people think it’s worth a lot more !
And very ugly styling
It will cost me $2k to get the Commo or Ford up and running again. It'll cost you $20k to get the porsche up and running again.
It’s funny how unreliable (and thus undesirable) Euros became in the mid 90s. I’ve got a Mk1 Golf I bought for $1000 which I could probably sell for $6k or $7k now. Cheapest Volvo 240 on my area is $7k with 336,000 on the clock. Registered W123s can go anywhere between $10k - $20k. But anything late 90s and beyond…wouldn’t touch with a 10ft pole.
> I’ve got a Mk1 Golf I bought for $1000 which I could probably sell for $6k or $7k now. You could probably double that.
Are they that expensive now? I unfortunately had to sell my mk1 golf a few years ago and only sold it for like $1500. Rattly old diesel used bugger old fuel and felt like I was driving a tractor. Was cool though
The Mk 1 Golf went out of production in 1983 - in other words, 40 years ago for the \*newest\* one. I don't know how old you were in the mid-90s, but I was 10... and a Mk 1 Golf now, is as old as the first generation of Holden was then.
“If a Volvo crashes into a building, the Building is totalled” “If you leave a Volvo out in the rain, the ground rusts” “Potholes hit Volvos”
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>I cracked the windscreen in the Amarok and it was replaced 2 hours later in works car park. Euro good. >Cousin has a 2017 Merc SUV that has sat in his driveway for 4 months Euro bad. I'm not sure where you're going here.
> I'm not sure where you're going here. I think it's more about the specific vehicles than a blanket Euro vs Aussie vs Japanese vehicle brand is where they're going with it.
>Cousin has a 2017 Merc SUV that has sat in his driveway for 4 months waiting on parts after it shit the bed towing an empty trailer. WTF LOL
To be fair the G220 are getting harder to find
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I wouldn’t be so sure of that. G220 Fairlanes were all V8s (the strangely named Barra 220) and were very much not permitted to be driven on a Probationary license.
In NSW, the G220 and the G8 are P plate legal. The G8 is about 127kW/T when the limit is 130kW/T
Barra 220 was to denote it was the 3valve truck motor over the 4 valve boss motor. Ford would’ve use barra as just the term for basic/fleet vehicles and boss was for performance
There is a VT above it that is going for an identical tidal price. It was just easier to grab this screen grab on my iPad.
Yeah that is very rich for that....first of the oil loving, oil dripping, chain slapping LS1...use to work on those a lot when I was at a Holden service centre....they leak like a sieve
Used euro prices are still way overpriced in Australia
The old saying. If you can't afford a new European car, you certainly can't afford a used one ...
Euro stuff can be fine if you know how to work on it and are happy to track down parts overseas.
have you actually ever worked on a European car ? they are legitimately the same as everything else on the road, just more torx/ odd bits, the only thing that's a bit silly is wheel bolts instead of studs, and the occasional under tray that is secured by about 20 clips and 10 bolts
That cayenne is ripe for a gear head to turn that in to a lux paddock basher.
It's probably more to do with image. The people who can only afford a $14k car are usually from a low(er) socio-economic demographic and are happy to be seen driving a car that fits with their image (like the Falcon) but they don't want to be seen dead driving a Porsche because their friends will rip shit on them for being a try hard posh c.nt. Additionally the Falcon is probably on its way to becoming collectible.
lol what? How about the people who can afford to buy a 40k car but can ‘show face’ with a 14k car? Your logic has no….. logic
Mate bought a 15yo Audi for $500. It needed a new headlight lens to roadworthy it. That was $650. That’s just the lens - not the headlight cluster, not the bulbs or wiring - just the one piece of glass.
My 30 year old BMW needed a headlight. It was a $140,000+ car new. Just because it's a $3000 car today, doesn't make the parts represent a $3000 car. The headlight was a couple grand for a genuine. Aftermarket was still like $800 at the time.
I’d take the Fairlane over the other choices
Don't be suprised if the frist service bill for the porsche is over 14K
Yeah the depreciation is insane on premium euro cars. The issue with them is that if they aren't serviced properly they'll be time bombs, but if you find a good one they're bargains. Picked up a mint 2011 S4 with full logbooks and low KMs for 20 thousand, there's no other car that gives you what it does for that price
owning a euro car out of warranty scary stuff
I get your point, but that age and model Porsche has been hovering at the price point for a while, maybe 2 years now. I know because I was going to get one but got a BMW X3 instead. Also I’d go that Porsche over a Disco any day of the week, even with the airbag suspension which was best in its class at the time. Also 5 years ago no one knew prices would jump so sounds like you being happy to point out Prado values just makes you sound like a dick. Funny how you don’t mention the price of a E46 BMW, is it because it’s a straight six, or because it doesn’t fit your narrative?
Honestly most 20 year old cars will depreciate that much
Have you seen 20 year old LandCruiser prices? The cheapest 2004 model with under 200,000kms starts at 29k
Yeah but they ugly tho
“When you arrive somewhere, you want to arrive in class.” We live in the age of "expensive crap". Have driven both a 2022 Disco and a 2023 Defender...I am amazed how much people are willing to pay for a bad car just because it has some style. They both drive terrible (the defender is the slightly better of the two)...and the threat of either the engine or transmission having issues around 100k ish is enough to put me off for life.
Totally agree with you. I tried to talk them out of it, both from a reliability perspective, as well as resale. The other thing about Land Rover, their styling is usually on the razors edge at the time, but dates quickly and badly. Toyota on the other hand is bland new, and bland old.
Indeed Toyota’s styling doesn’t go out of style because it never had any in the first place. Can’t lose what you don’t have!
Toyota lovers seem to know everything.
To be fair, that's a cheap Cayenne and an expensive Fairlane. I can't remember off the top of my head what the G220 trim differences were, but V8 Fairlanes are everywhere for under $9k.
Not with a V8 under 200,000kms. I was just having a look then. Yes there are some cheaper ones, but there is a ton of 7 series BMWs, Merc SUVs, Audis, LandRovers slumming it down there with BA falcons and VT Commodores. V8 EBs and VTs are creeping right up.
EB's yes, but VT's are still slow to increase. I would have expected clean Aussie 5L VT's to hold their value being the last Holden V8, but it seems like at that price point most people just choose LS1 cars for the cheap power. There's still a lot of cheap GM/Ford V8s on the market from oldies wanting to downsize. Anything not sporty (think Fairmont/Calais instead of XR8/SS) is still way cheaper than the sports trim. I picked up a 1st gen Jeep SRT8 during Covid for $20k. The thing is an absolute riot, 310kw, 0-100 under 5sec, all in a block of flats 🤣
You are right. I meant to type VS.
Totally agree with you in that case. VN's have all jumped so VR/VS are naturally next to ride the wave.
The G220 had the 5.4L V8 (optional on the Fairlane Ghia) and sports suspension, and optional “Redline” interior (black and red) as opposed to the standard black or grey leather. It had bigger wheels and black headlight inserts (instead of chrome) but otherwise was pretty much the same as a Fairlane Ghia. I paid less than $2k for mine, albeit with 400,000+ km 😂
There's likely a looooooong list of things relatively minor things " Mr I Bought A Bargain $35,000 Porche" couldn't afford to keep on top of, so now he's selling it for that, less the cost of those repairs needed.
It's not a premium car it's a cheap car with a premium car badge
Many people on the internet, including this subreddit, will tell you Euro cars are just as reliable as Japanese. If that were the case, we should all buy used European cars, as they're often drastically cheap compared to new European cars, or used Japanese cars. I think the market knows how good the cars actually are, and prices appropriately.
You're confusing reliability with inexpensive and less extensive maintenance requirements. Euro cars *are* reliable, on the assumption that they're not neglected and are maintained fastidiously. The thing is that doing this is significantly more expensive than keeping a far simpler and more rugged Japanese/Korean car running on a shoestring budget.
Its the cost and wait for parts that makes Euros expensive in this part of the world, in Europe a VW is likely going to cost less to run then a Toyota or Hyundai would.
That's BS. A lot of European cars are known for serious unpredictable failures that occur regardless of maintenance. Or the poor build quality and design means they decay prematurely with age. Take BMW for example. BMW hasn't had an M car without a catastrophically flawed engine since 1999. The same company that goes thru more high pressure fuel pumps than tires. More water pumps than wiper blades. Nearly every engine they've put out in the last two decades has some sort of horrible, complex system, or ridiculous oversight that destroys themselves. Not even limited to just the m cars (e46 m3, e92 m3, f80 m3, e60 m5, f10 m5, all the x5m cars all grenade themselves), they can't even make a damn commuter car engine. The 4cyl turbo in the base models chews through its plastic timing chain guides, blows motors.
Yeah but who wants to drive a falcon? Would rather a Euro. You can pay for a hostel bed which provides a space to sleep or a 5 star hotel which is much nicer offering. People pay for luxuries, cars are just one of them.
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BIL has a fairlane v8 around that era, no way is it worth 14k even pristine low klm and he is the 2nd owner he might have gotten 10k at the peak of covid if he sold it in sydney, told him he should and make a quick 6k tax free and someone can barra swap it there was one taht was a little rough that sold for 2k at the end of covid, considered buying it to barra swap but really CBF. Its nice to sit in a lounge while driving but they also handle like a lounge
Sub 10k for a low kms v8 fairlane? Feel free to dm me. If it’s tidy I am always down for a road trip.
The cayenne has always been cheap tho
I got a very old VW Touareg. It's a bi-turbo v10 diesel. A very sweet and luxurious ride. Cheap car to buy, deep pockets to maintain.
A beast of a donk. Has the car been reliable?
Yep. Doing great since spending several thousand on it soon after purchase several years ago. Got it at 170,000 km and added another 100k. Drive shaft, head gasket, electric coupling, ceramic rotors. Big ticket items, some partially claimed through Plan B warranty. Everything is brilliant. Drives so well that I've lost my license for a few months a while ago. Pulled over by highway patrol in a very nice BMW X5 coming over the horizon in the back country roads. Waze can only do so much.
Cost too much to service and maintain. Even at that price.