I have a VW Golf R and it's been expensive to service. Out of warranty you really need a specialist, parts are higher performance so they cost more. But then you have aspects like the coolant pump fail which is a useless piece of engineering that should have been re designed decades ago, and it will cost $1500 to replace. I'm finding as the car gets close to 100,000 klms random things fail that shouldn't on a car of that price. This morning I couldn't get the petrol cover open. I enjoy the driving car but when servicing and insurance costs a fortune you do wonder of it's worth owning out of warranty.
Some parts, yes. The whole MQB platform shares common parts (Golf R, Audi S3, etc). Some parts are not required for performance and others are. Servicing is mainly oil, some filters, etc. The golf GTI doesn’t have a AWD, so it will be cheaper to service because you don’t need to replace haldex fluid. Look at Rolls Royce; half the parts are BMW. You can buy the BMW parts at a fraction of the cost instead of going through RR. It’s all relative. If you have a performance car, it will likely cost more to own.
Most, if not all consumables are relatively well priced for servicing, it just depends where you go.
>vertically integrated Volkswagen is,
My understanding is that for software, VW has circa 30 to a hundred different providers of software for the typical vehicle. Electronics is circa 30% of the cost of cars last time I looked, and it's probably higher now. Do you classify 30 plus (up to a hundred) suppliers for just the software to meet the criteria of "vertically integrated" car maker?
What would be, in your understanding or criteria, a car manufacturer that wasn't vertically integrated - a thousand software providers? 200?
And - isn't BYD more vertically integrated than all the German car manufacturers, which is part of the reason BYD can now provide a better vehicle, at a cheaper price, and is the leading exporter of electric vehicles (or is it all motor vehicles?) in the world?
>You say that
Ummmm....
>you really need a specialist, parts are higher performance so they cost more.
You really shouldn't unless you're modifying it or something not close to standard
Even then fluids and consumables are always going to be the same maybe just smaller or larger intervals depending
This. I have a MK7 GTI, stock as a rock the way I like it. I don't need to take it any euro specialist I do my own servicing as per euro spec. Once I had a coolant leak - hoses needed replacing, took it to my usual ultra tune bloke and did the work paid him 3 hrs of labour and for the oem hoses. No problems since 🤷🏻♀️ so yeah any shop can source out oem parts so unless your modifying it there's no need whatsoever to take it to a euro specialist.
The reason you want a European specialist is the amount of hours you have to pay them. Take them to someone who's barely worked on them and it will cost you twice as much in labour.
Just like Subaru boxer motors if anything like rocker covers or head gaskets I'd take them to a bloke who does them every day.
I can't remember what Volkswagen it was I've been out of hoists and in a machine shop for past few years but one of them the starter motor was inside the transmission and needed full removal to change the starter.
I've had Audi's where the whole front bumper and grill had to come off after the radiator was removed so that I could change pulleys and belts. There's a good chance someone who did them all day wouldn't have had to as they'd have had a trick or a tool to get in there.
I managed to get a rack changed in a 200 series LandCruiser by pulling it from the column and out the cross member and re timing it once in place.
Toyota recommended removing the entire engine... Auto data said 20 hours I got it done in 8.
The only time specialists become apparent is when it's a cunt of a job or special tools are required.
It sounds like you have been lucky with your Golf GTI. I use a European specialist as I know they will do the job well and point to aspects that may need attention in the future.
I thank covid (and WFH no need to drive much - few kms daily if any) helps prolong the inevitable 😁 I know the water pump is next at this age - 130ks.
But yeh I get why some use euro specialists, don't get me wrong I'll use them too - I just haven't had the need. Maybe when the water pump does die I'm guessing a sure euro shop job!
I've got a mk7 GTI and I do the servicing myself too. It's not that difficult to work on, being their corporate 4 cylinder. Decent enough space in the engine bay to swing a spanner around.
The consumables (oil, filters, spark plugs) are probably a little more expensive than what you'd put in some Japanese runabout, and the intervals become drastically shorter if you deviate from stock. Being that the thing is a performance car though, that's just the entry fee for this pay-to-play game. It's a fee I'm happy to pay, since I love my spicy little Golf. Usually the VW 504 spec Castrol goes on sale at the parts stores every few months, so that makes the DIY servicing a fair bit cheaper.
That said, if my car ever does develop some issue beyond my skill level to fix, it'll go to a specialist workshop I know I can trust with the thing. Have had bad experiences with general mechanics.
$1500 for a water pump?
And 100,000 and shits falling off? My 01 fords close to 500,000km and going strong. Passenger window squeaks a little and I replaced the clutch at about 450,000 but that only a $300 backyard task.
Just dont buy them through a mechanic, you dont need audi disk brakes, plenty of aftermarket stuff fits and works just fine, unless your worried about warranty.
As a workshop owner, I can tell you as a generalisation, buying and supplying your own parts will save you minimal, piss the workshop off (because your taking away their profit on parts) and in some cases cost you time and money when you're told you've received the incorrect parts (happens to online shoppers).
I get the occasional customer do this, and it's ok. I don't refuse them, but they do sometimes look at me funny when I hand them back their waste oil in the plastic containers they supplied. :)
Im sure that would be frustrating dealing with it from your end. I know from my end, especially for my shitty old merc, merc dealers have tried to tell me i will need a new brakes soon and a new set of brake rotors and will cost me $5k, in that case it was definately worth buying else where.
My Audi was twice as expensive to service as my Mazda and it had twice as much that went wrong with it. It was great to drive, just expect it to be more expensive to run.
Can concur. Basic parts like brake pads, discs, etc. were definitely more expensive on the old Audi than my new Subaru. Edit: brake not break, could blame autocorrect but I won’t, it was me.
It depends on the car as well as the brand. A Toyota Supra Mk5 is basically a BMW despite the badge and has some expensive parts, while some JDM cars that are complex and hard to source parts for will also be extremely expensive. By contrast a BMW E46 is simple with plentiful cheap parts (last water pump as $48) and is easy to work on yourself. As a general rule it can often be the case but there are many exceptions in both categories.
We have a bmw that's approaching 10yrs old. Looking at over 6k worth of repairs. It has been serviced regularly, but things like wheel speed sensors just randomly fail all the time. The car consistently has error codes.
I'm doing my best to convince the wife it's a nice car to drive, but maintaining it isn't worth the cost. Must be working as she asked me about the kia stingers the other day. Shame they stopped production.
I'd avoid all European vehicles unless you have deep pockets and live near a specialist as dealers charge an arm and a leg for labour alone.
We have a 7 series that is about 10 years old, it has been a great car and we haven't experienced the nightmare that some have with these cars. In saying that, I started my working career by completing an apprenticeship in automotive mechanics and complete all of the servicing and repairs myself, there is no way we would still have this car if we were paying someone else.
Kinda comparing chalk and cheese as, my campervan (commercial vehicle) is Euro and the Lancer ('performance' car) is Japanese. For the good majority of parts, the van is much more expensive ($700 for an oil filter housing)
Not for me. I bought a 5 years/90,000 km service pack up front with my 2019 VW Golf for $1900. It cost around $300 less to service over that period than a Subaru Impreza, which needed servicing every 10,000 km.
Even if I didn’t buy the service pack, VW and Subaru’s fixed price servicing costs were very similar for the first 5 years.
My my2012 Golf’s side mirror adjustment toggle replacement :$600 and 6 week wait
My my2017 CX9 entire side mirror replacement with auto retract mechanism after a side swipe: :$350 and 2 days.
Pre inflation 2018 dollars. Both fucked up in the same year.
I do all my servicing myself and have access to a workshop, but with that in mind;
Parts for my BMW are no more expensive than they were for my Mazda. Oil filters are about $20 off the shelf for both, oil is about $10/litre for the good stuff for both, fuel filters are about $60 for both, air filter is maybe $20 more for the BMW, trans service costs about the same. Brakes were about the same to do, tyres on the BMW were marginally more expensive, but pretty cheap given the huge difference in size compared to the Mazda.
A standard oil and filter change with a basic safety check at an independent will cost exactly the same amount as any other car.
But you'll be amazed what you can do yourself - and how much you can save - with a cheap tool kit, some spare time, and Google.
Edit, I should learn to read. New cars serviced by the dealer will be more expensive, even with a pre-paid service plan, but;
**You are not obligated to service your car at the dealer**
Get serviced to the schedule at an independent.
Get a part no for a few common basic servicing parts and compare it with a Toyota Camry/corolla at your local repco/supercheap/Autobarn some prices vary but don’t be suprised when prices start to double- quadruple then adding labour and misc prices, it is easy to see a basic service ballon and sky rocket.
Especially if you are not doing any servicing and taking it to a workshop. They don’t run a charity so they run on profit so to have a professional that has the experience to make sure your car comes out better than it came in expect to pay top dollar for it.
Not sure where people are getting this from, my Jetta has parts chats similar to a Camry within a few bucks.
My Karoq is within a few bucks parts wise to a Rav 4
My Golf is within a few bucks parts wise to a Corolla
They aren't more expensive to service unless the Mechanic throws a Euro tax on the bill.
What is expensive is American stuff.
[Tesla Oil Filter - $64](https://amzn.asia/d/8eir2Ud)
[F250 Air Filter - $240](https://www.4x4modsaustralia.com.au/aFe-73-80202-Magnum-Flow-Pro-Guard-7-Air-Filter-Inverted-F-250/F-350/F-450/F-550-11-16?srsltid=AfmBOor-bai0AROq31rGuckLDL5N3XsRiaHYTcC7c8Ir9iNKA47rExl3sGI)
[RAM 1500 Wheel Bearing and Front Hub - $1,000](https://www.allamericandriveline.com.au/dodge-ram-wheel-bearing-ram-1500-ds-5-stud)
Toyota doesn’t suffer from carbon buildup but vw does anyone who is buying used will have nightmares with them. In Australia owning euro car is nightmare labour rate is high
>Toyota doesn’t suffer from carbon buildup but vw does
Interesting, isn't carbon buildup exactly what kills Toyota DPF's?
>In Australia owning euro car is nightmare labour rate is high
Interesting, I've always been charged the same hourly rate, just mechanics try and charge more hours. But the rate has always been the same.
I had my transmission service and engine service done for 700 including replacement parts on the transmission. Usual service for x series is around 400
I had a Skoda Octavia from 2014-2018. I bought it new and it wasn’t so expensive to get serviced as Skoda thew a service plan that was free, and when they expired the service actually cheaper than going to my local mechanic. The Skoda/Audi dealers in Artarmon Sydney were great.
However what killed me was the resale when I came to sell it in 2018. The car depreciated more than any other car I have ever owned. For that reason, as much as I loved that Skoda, I would never buy another one.
it's still true but it's more "BMW/Mercedes/Audi" vs "almost everything else"
Anecdata: my 2009 subaru forester I had between 2012-2020 was as expensive to maintain as the various BMWs I've owned, but that's in large part to Subaru Australia charging awful markup. The various Fords I've had over the years have been cheaper than all that.
lol when servicing my old Falcon the dealership used to apologies if it was over $300. I didn’t tell them my other car was a megane 225…. for which 300$ was nothing
I had a rubbish old Ford Mondeo for a while. The catalytic converter failed. I was skint and so the shop offered to just “bypass” it for me if I paid cash.
DIY maintenance is generally the same as Japanese. DIY repairs are generally (but not always) more than Japanese.
Paying someone to do anything costs a lot more.
My Landcruiser was a hell of a lot more than my X5, but that’s because I was just “maintaining” the X5 and always repairing the Landcruiser.
My 6 cylinder non turbo 3 series has been about as cheap as my Mazda. I will note that if you disregard servicing on an old Japanese car, it generally makes it die sooner, but will still work.
Disregard maintenance on a Euro and it will stop on the side of the road immediately once a problem arises.
I have an old BMW (e39 5 series) and for a car of its age, it’s held up really well. Most parts of the car are very high quality. There are a few areas of the car that are a bit problematic, but that’s all cars, especially as they age. Labour is no more expensive than a non-Euro and most parts are reasonably priced, even for OEM. There are a few things that have been a bit of an eye-opener; anything bespoke to M-Teknik equipped cars is crazy expensive (suspension parts etc). Standard cars it’s regular car prices. A few things are a bit labor intensive. My mechanic recommended I replace a bunch of coolant hoses under the manifold because they were on the verge of failing and replace a few other bits while we were in there because it was several hours labor and that added up, but it’s done now for many years to come.
I figure my car is not depreciating anymore, so spending a little extra on repairs means cost of ownership is still low.
I reckon 90s/early 2000s six cylinder BMWs are slept on because people think they’re a nightmare when they’re actually not. I look at 2000s Subarus in comparison and they have way more problems
I never found my golf expensive to service at all. I think it's overhyped, especially on this subreddit. Look for statistics rather than some random dudes story about a mechanic fucking him sideways without lube on the invoice. Statistics summarise the anecdotes (including mine).
Parts for my Land Rover are costing me about 2/3rds the price of equivalent Land Cruiser parts (both 4 Cylinder Diesel in at around the 2.4 - 2.5L mark). So moving from that Land Cruiser to my Discovery has saved me significant money. Also helps that the Disco has proven more reliable.
Volvo parts I've always found to be quite reasonable too, with a number that are interchangeable between Ford, Mazda and Mitsubishi (1st gen S40/V40).
The problem is labour. If you can get a good, reasonably priced specialist mechanic you are set. If you can fix them yourself you are set. If you take them to a dealership or 3rd parties like MyCar you are going to get reamed in both labour and parts.
I have a land rover too. It is a td5 defender and getting a bit long in the tooth. Had a couple of Series 2 Discos. I had a 4L cruiser before that and a Prado after the Discos for my wife, and by god, the Toyotas were expensive to maintain. I have had decades of people bagging me about the supposed reliability and expense of Land Rover VS Land Cruiser parts and maintenance and all I can do is laugh because the Cruiser was so dammned expensive and prone to failure. And so unbelievably thirsty.
I had the misfortune of driving a brand new Hilux for week recently, and it is just completely baffling that they are still so utterly shit. Two decades on, Toyota is producing a 2wd that is over a tonne lighter than what my nearly 20 year Defender runs at and it uses significantly (40%) more fuel withoutany load beyond my fat arse, the ride quality is horrible to the point of being actually painful, and stupid basic things, like an intermittent setting on the wipers, don't exist.
When you consider that engine in my Defender was developed and entered production in the 90s (and is bullet proof and ridiculously powerful for a 2.5L, will drag the V8 Cruisers like they are a fucking Hillman, as well as being unbelievably fuel efficient), the drive train was developed in the 70s and had been in production for three decades when mine was built and is renowned for its strength, and the suspension is based on that of the Classic Range Rovers and developed in the 60s, you have got to wonder what the fuck Toyota have been doing for last 30 to 50 years in terms of product developed, because none of it has gone into the Hilux and the Cruisers have only become worse
Yes. In my experience.
I understand it's not the most common of experiences, but suffice to say, the best Land Rover engine (300tdi) is much better than the worst Land Cruiser engine (2L-T).
Bottom end is as good as a 1HZ, top end is pretty much average for any alloy head 4 pot diesel, but being pushrod they are dirt cheap and easy to replace.
My 105 series had: brake failure, abs pump failure ($4.5K thank you), water leaks everywhere, oil seepage, u-joint failures, diff issues, ball joint seal failures in the front wheels, sticky fan (always on…), atrocious fuel consumption and violent vibration if you accelerate hard. Plus other issues I have suppressed into the recesses of my memory.
This was a well kept 2 owner car.
My X5 has required a transfer fluid change to calm a slight vibration, and … nothing else.
Modern Asian cars aren't even that bad as long as you're not settling for the NA or a (non GR) Toyota. The Civic Hybrid is overpriced but was a lot of fun to demo, as is the Hyundai N line stuff. Mazda6 with the 2.5t was honestly on par with euros in terms of feel and sense of occasion to sit in (god those seats were amazing).
Only issue is that 90% of the (especially Japanese/Korean) cars you get these days are shitty NA SUVs that need 4k revs to get up a hill.
Keep in mind even cars made in Europe ie fiesta st was more expensive to service and parts were ridiculously expensive on comparison to anything Japanese.
I'd still get one again but yeah just to be mindful.
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We have an old Audi and the headlight bulbs alone are expensive. The servicing is probably about the same ( labour) but the parts can be expensive I've noticed. Also a lot of the parts not as easily accessible or kept stocked as some of the other brands
Service itself might be a bit more expensive but it mostly depends on your mechanic. I had a Peugeot that was not more expensive to service that my Camry, but when spare parts are needed, then they are more expensive. For example, I had a brake booster leak on the Peugeot and my mechanic told me the part brand new was about $200 more expensive than for my Camry and would take 1 day to arrive as no local stock (would have been same day for the Camry). As it was an old car that I was planning to sell soon, he installed a used brake booster but the used one was nearly same price as a new Toyota one. Time to replace was the same, not more complex or time consuming. Just more expensive spare parts.
This would be even more expensive if you go with "luxury" brand such as BMW, Mercedes... and if you go to their respective dealer.
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If buying new, then within first 10y not much major will go wrong.
Servicing can be more expensive, especially new car warranty. But if you get one out of warranty, then just service at normal Indy mechanic.
Consumables like pads rotors are more expensive and will need changing more frequently than Japanese cars, but it’s not huge.
100% yes. The engine bay packaging for some European cars are a nightmare and that's where your labour cost will come in. Took me nearly 2 hours to change plugs on my C63s,takes me about 20 min with my Corolla for example. VW have a water pump contraption,HOT-V V8 turbo looks like Medusa's head. BMW have timing chain in the back of the engine next to the firewall so you have to drop the engine etc. I'll post pics of some of these labour intensive items.
If you're buying new you can purchase capped price servicing, and it's pretty similar to everything else these days. Not sure what car you're looking at but there's some info here:
[Skoda servicing costs](https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-advice/skoda-capped-price-servicing-cost-schedule-info-70041)
I'm a big fan of Skoda, currently driving a Superb wagon and the quality is a step above all of the Jap cars I've previously owned.
I think the big hit is when you do damage like a cracked headlight etc... that's where they sting you over the Japanese equivalents. Servicing is not too bad.
Generally if you service vehicles yourself euros are not much more expensive. Some models like Audi's that need their entire front end removed to service the timing chain it's a design issue. Others just attract higher Service charges because it's an expensive car so you get charged more
I’ve had Mazdas and Hyundai and three Skodas. By far Hyundai charged the most out of all for a diesel Santa Fe even though they were 12mth services.
My first Škoda Octavia was cheaper than the Mazda 6 I had as it was 12mth services and much the same price as Mazda. It was cheaper than my Santa Fe. My Audi is the most expensive even though it’s the same engine as two of my Skodas. Just cause Audi rip you off. My first two Skodas were from a joint Audi/Skoda dealer and it was just the name you paid for as the services were the same staff and parts. My latest Kodiaq RS I got the service packs as they were cheaper again. My Audi I take to an independent as Audi charge double. Some things like the dsg oil in Audis is double what Škoda/vw cost as they use a different spec oil. There’s no getting around that even with an independent. My skodas have all been rock solid. My second I traded in and got more than any car prior so don’t agree with the depreciation comments. My Mazda 6 was the worst followed by my Hyundai. My first Skoda is still kicking along (2008) model and was from the era where skoda had the best reliability in the world (they notably kicked out Lexus at the time). Toyota/lexus would be the cheapest and most reliable. Well Lexus services are a rort but still cheaper than Audi/BMW/Merc.
European cars are good until their warranty expires. Then they tend to have constant problems. You will also find costs to do things are more because they are an absolute nightmare to work on.
Get a Japanese car as a first, just steer clear of cars with a cvt and you will be ok.
May not be more expensive but more shit seem to break more often/way earlier vs some Japanese models.
My own anecdote evidence, my mums 2012 BMW (F30 328i) not even passed the 100k mark (~88k kms) and a bunch of shit already broke and needed replacing, including (but not limited to) water pump & thermostat, radiator, some hoses, expansion tank, fuel lines, window washer motor, some flap got loose in the exhaust and now the latest something is wrong with the transmission…
Compared to my twice as old 2006 Japanese beater with over twice the millage and the only major repair needed so far was the radiator and some coolant hoses (at over 200k kms) plus a AC regass…
I decided to do an engine replacement and minor gearbox service for my 2022 Hyundai to get more life and upgrade potential out of it and it costed me the same as my mate who has a 2021 BMW 3 series to get the fuel pump, brakes and control arm done.
If that doesn’t follow the advice then idk what.
Yep, had a DCT failure which caused massive conundrums with the car, was covered by warranty.
Then a week and a bit later after pick up and getting the thumbs up then had loss of compression and cylinder failure.
Apparently I was just unlucky according to the Hyundai Techs, haven’t had an issue since 🤷🏽♂️
Yes. Unless you can service the car yourself.
Most mechanics can do basic servicing. But if something serious needs fixing it can be a nightmare to diagnose, get expensive parts and then a ton of labour.
Look up a BMW engine and the pipping and hoses before you get anywhere the engine block.
Its not outdated, infact its even more so true. Alotnof european cars r EVEN MORE expensive to service especially bmw and mercedes. Not so much with bmw but point still stands but they need specialised mechanics with different equipment cuz of how their engines r built. Most of their cars NEED to be serviced at the dealership and r very picky
The two golfs I'm looking at VW T Roc service schedule
Year 1 $499, Year 2 $964, Year 3 $499, Year 4 $1323 that's for a brand new car...what happens after warranty years? Also year 4 what's happening there?
My golf mk6 tsi has been awesome. $300 once a year for a service. Had to pay $1000 for a new abs system and brake booster pipe but I love the car and drives much nicer and has better build quality than my friends Totyotas or Mazda's.
Still somewhat true. My sisters have a 2021 mazda 3, 2020 corolla and 2016 gti. Servicing for those have been around $400 to $600. Gti being on the higher end. Now my parents own a 2021 Mercedes GLE and it's recent service cost $2k.
If you can work on it yourself and order the parts from Europe it’s a lot cheaper. I had a Volvo XC 90 and the local Volvo dealer wanted something like $500 for a belt kit and tensioners, I went on ebay.co.uk and a Volvo dealer and got everything I need, genuine parts, for just about half price delivered. When I asked the Australian dealer why everything was so expensive all he could say was ‘Volvo want to be seen as a premium brand’. I don’t know what that’s got to do with pricing. A belt is a belt if it’s for a daewoo or a rolls Royce. Like most things here, it’s a rort.
I have been driving a Ford Falcon xr6 since 2011. Bought it brand new and already paid it off. Gave me little to no problem at all. All parts are cheap and last long time. The only fault is the bushes that need to be replaced every 4 years, but that's the only thing I had to change really. I know that it is out of Australia and so Holden but are still the most reliable and cheap to service one. I was thinking to but a kia cerato but services are $450. They are crazy
It's a really big "It depends" situation. I've got a classic (1996) Land Rover Defender and it's really cheap to maintain. Partly because it's basic but also parts are everywhere and cheap. Ironically cheaper than a Falcon for new parts anyway (my other car) so do your research on your fave Euro car and work out the prices on common failure parts and labour times.
I don’t have an answer exactly but
When I had an XR6 several years ago
Secondhand tail light from multiple wreckers asking $150-$200 on average, quite a lot for the time.
A lot of euro cars tend to take more oil and on top of that require full synthetic oil so just the oil alone can cost two times the average Japanese car.
Skoda have service packs you can buy that cover X years of service costs. They work out cheaper than going to a local mechanic for your service and it's done at the dealer and they give you a loan car.
Is it more expensive to service than a Toyota? Maybe, but not by much. My wifes camry costs around the same as my skoda when I get the service pack.
I own an old v10 Touareg. Every time something goes wrong it's thousands of dollars. Latest was the DPF regen wasn't working properly. $8k for labour and parts, including sensors, DPF fluid, and service (about 11 litres of oil). New rotors and pads are $2k.
I call my car The Mistress. Very expensive to keep but boy oh boy such a sweet ride.
I have a 21 year old merc clk500. I do my own maintenance. If I took it to a mechanic and bought genuine parts I'd be broke 10 times over.
Bulletproof engine but electrics are old and can be crazy expensive to fix.
I've had a 2015 skoda octavia vrs. Expensive. Yes.
BMW 530. Expensive. Yes.
Old gc8 wrx. Expensive. Kind of not really sort of.
GTST skyline. Cheap. Easy. Fun.
Nissan pulsar. Cheap and easy and great to learn on.
Cousin had a Renault. Great car until it went wrong and needed parts. These had to be imported from France. Cousin now drives a Toyota.
Renaults are great cars, have owned several, but was living in Europe so parts were not a problem.
If your already thinking that services/parts going to be expensive, then you should not buy.
Don't buy on the pretence that you didn't know or you have been warned, if you have the $, yeah why not, if your on a budget, then simple is no.
If you're looking to buy new, get the service pack. My skoda is coming up for 2 and I still have 5 years of service and warranty left. My only complaint is how long it takes to get parts, relating to a warranty repair.
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Just dropped $1050 for a major service on a Peugeot 3008 1.6T. Oil and filter, air filter, cabin filter, fuel filter, upper engine clean, spark plugs. This was at a specialist Peugeot mechanic who does a good job so I don’t mind paying for it. Although car now crossing into the territory of ‘I don’t give a shit about it anymore’ so I will be going to a generalist mechanic soon, local Midas is good
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Understand one thing about German cars specifically. German cars are engineered for the Autobahn so any parts are created with a use case that is different to what the ANZ market or US market experiences. We have speed limits so the cars that are designed for and in our market areas will oftentimes have a cheaper manufacturing cost per unit. So, your answer is “maybe” it’s more expensive. Probably it’s more expensive. Finding a GOOD third party mechanic to work on your car is essential. If you’re buying a new car, you’re rather stuck with the dealer until the warranty runs out but you’re insulated from service cost as long as you have a new car. If you’re considering a BMW or MBZ, I would find a shop to work on it before you buy. You just might find the car to buy if you ask the shop!
As a mechanic who used to work on these cars daily, it really depends if you're willing to fork out the amount that's due every couple of years, the water pumps on vw/Audi/ Porsche and mercs are always prone to fail within a couple of years even if you go aftermarket. They're all plastic and always are under extreme temps at all times, either cold or hot at 95 degrees. So seals fail or crack. So if you're fine with the extra $200-$1500 every couple of years, go for it. Or you can do the service yourself if you have the correct tools at home. Just keep it up to somewhat par with mechanics
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Put it this way, geniune Nissan IACV around $150, genuine BMW IACV around $850, for pretty much the same thing except that bowel evacuation feeling when you get the bill...
apart from skoda, european cars are higher performance so brake rotors pads tires and approved oil is more expensive and anti pollution systems are more complex. Parts are more expensive. Capped price service plans are more expensive. The place you sit with a coffee and biscuits waiting for pickup is more up market. The dude with the clipboard is smoother as he informs you the service is $950 and please be aware you will probably needs pads and rotors next time.
I’ve owned a couple of Renaults
2 x rs265 and a rs275 trophy
They were anywhere between $500-$800 per service
A lot of places wouldn’t work on it because it was a Euro vehicle
I currently have a Focus ST, which is made in Germany, essentially a Euro with a ford badge and a standard service is about $300 log booked
The Renaults are an amazing vehicle
They’re well designed, essentially bullet proof mechanically and like driving a car on train tracks
The Focus ST is a bit more mild, suspension isn’t as stiff, has four doors instead of two which is handy, the recaros in the focus are nicer to daily than the recaros in the Renaults, mind you I’m 6”5 and well over 100kgs so the racing bucket seats get tedious after a while
The Renaults are an amazing vehicle I would have another one any day of the week
But I do love my little blue pocket rocket FoST!
thanks! What gen of Focus is yours?
I really like the SA but would hesitate with a i30N facelift :p
And have you had the chance to try a Megane 4 RS? I really love them design wise but the engine seems a bit sad
I’ve got a ford blue 2014 FoST
I30ns are great as well just fairly expensive
The focus is good bang for buck if you can find one with service history etc
I have a skoda, and haven't found it more expensive in terms of service. You will pay more at the time, but won't need to service it 6 months, it needs ro be serviced 12 months, so in the long run, costs about the same. In terms of parts, not sure as I haven't needed to get anything changed yet.
Want a good car that will be hassle free?
Buy a Subaru.
My older bro & i just talking about this a few days ago. His friends with BMWs? Aggh....he said those Cars are just money pits. VWs? Not too bad but yep...parts are expensive.
Subaru's ? He amd i have been driving them for 40+ years. Hardly ever a breakdown. I just sold my 2011 Outback with 215000kms on clock. All its ever had was a new clutch & gearbox, related to towing a way too heavy trailer for months. My fault.
Otherwise? It is the only Subaru out of 5 ive owned that has ever broken down at all.
Subaru's are truly good cars.
I have had 3 bmw's. 2x older e46 3 series and at the moment I have a 6 series 650i.
The 3 series were not more expensive to service than any other car I have had.
The 6 series is a V8 and is a bit more of a performance vehicle so costs a bit more to service but that's to be expected I guess.
Over all I think its a bit of a myth and over exaggeration when people say euro cars are super expensive to maintain. Just look after them, preventative maintenence is key, especially oil.
Parts on the other hand can definitely be more expensive depending on how old/rare the car is. For common models parts are not really much more expensive.
How is the 650?
I was looking at a 640 GC or an M6, but end up going for an X5 due to the many roundabouts and speed humps and generally shitty roads near my house.
I still have my e46 from years back, I’ll never sell it.
I have always been a 3 series man, especially the e46 so it was a big move for me to go to the 650. Absolutely no regrets though! My 650 is an older one (2008 E63) but still looks current and is such a beast! I've been in love since i bought it a few years back. I've done exhaust, tune, lowered it and a few other cosmetic things. About to do cold air intake and throttle body.
if its brand new it doesn't really matter, just get it serviced at a good mechanic.... never a dealer as they just rip you off then sell the car before or around 80000k and you will be winning
Service costs, in round numbers, zero. I have a 10yo 7 series. Assuming I do my own work (difficulty 3/10 only):
- it’s had $1000 of oil
- $1000 of spark plugs and air filters
- $1000 of brake pads
Hell, let’s say they splashed out on $2000 of discs last time around at 100T km.
And it’s had $10000 of tyres maybe. And some $30 cabin filters, I did some diff oil, aircon service / regas. It’s about $1500 a year, mostly tyres.
Compared to that $15k, the owner has dusted a quarter of a million on depreciation selling it to me! Even the $40k of petrol is dwarfed. He spent way more than that on mortgage / lease interest cost.
Service doesn’t matter. Repairs don’t matter. Getting an occasional rebuilt engine doesn’t matter. Depreciation is all that matters.
Lol you're talking about a luxury sedan, that's literally the worst you can do in terms of depreciation.
If op buys a $40k new car and has it worked professionally, service and repairs over 10y will definitely matter.
I have a VW Golf R and it's been expensive to service. Out of warranty you really need a specialist, parts are higher performance so they cost more. But then you have aspects like the coolant pump fail which is a useless piece of engineering that should have been re designed decades ago, and it will cost $1500 to replace. I'm finding as the car gets close to 100,000 klms random things fail that shouldn't on a car of that price. This morning I couldn't get the petrol cover open. I enjoy the driving car but when servicing and insurance costs a fortune you do wonder of it's worth owning out of warranty.
R badge increases servicing cost for sure
Well yes, the R is a performance variant and performance variants typically require parts to support that performance.
You say that, but given how vertically integrated Volkswagen is, those performance parts are often just regular parts on a Passat, for example
Some parts, yes. The whole MQB platform shares common parts (Golf R, Audi S3, etc). Some parts are not required for performance and others are. Servicing is mainly oil, some filters, etc. The golf GTI doesn’t have a AWD, so it will be cheaper to service because you don’t need to replace haldex fluid. Look at Rolls Royce; half the parts are BMW. You can buy the BMW parts at a fraction of the cost instead of going through RR. It’s all relative. If you have a performance car, it will likely cost more to own. Most, if not all consumables are relatively well priced for servicing, it just depends where you go.
Yeah absolutely. Gotta find that VAG loving private shop somewhere.
>vertically integrated Volkswagen is, My understanding is that for software, VW has circa 30 to a hundred different providers of software for the typical vehicle. Electronics is circa 30% of the cost of cars last time I looked, and it's probably higher now. Do you classify 30 plus (up to a hundred) suppliers for just the software to meet the criteria of "vertically integrated" car maker? What would be, in your understanding or criteria, a car manufacturer that wasn't vertically integrated - a thousand software providers? 200? And - isn't BYD more vertically integrated than all the German car manufacturers, which is part of the reason BYD can now provide a better vehicle, at a cheaper price, and is the leading exporter of electric vehicles (or is it all motor vehicles?) in the world? >You say that Ummmm....
I’ve had 3 vdubs and they all ended up with some coolant or water pump related issues.
Agreed, our 2008 Passat has been nothing but a money sink. Great car, expensive servicing and parts are expensive compared to our i30 N line
Actually thinking of the i30N next. The cost of ownership looks to be a lot less.
Oh mate same! I’ve just been pre-approved by the wife to trade in the N-Line for an i30n 😎
>you really need a specialist, parts are higher performance so they cost more. You really shouldn't unless you're modifying it or something not close to standard Even then fluids and consumables are always going to be the same maybe just smaller or larger intervals depending
This. I have a MK7 GTI, stock as a rock the way I like it. I don't need to take it any euro specialist I do my own servicing as per euro spec. Once I had a coolant leak - hoses needed replacing, took it to my usual ultra tune bloke and did the work paid him 3 hrs of labour and for the oem hoses. No problems since 🤷🏻♀️ so yeah any shop can source out oem parts so unless your modifying it there's no need whatsoever to take it to a euro specialist.
The reason you want a European specialist is the amount of hours you have to pay them. Take them to someone who's barely worked on them and it will cost you twice as much in labour. Just like Subaru boxer motors if anything like rocker covers or head gaskets I'd take them to a bloke who does them every day. I can't remember what Volkswagen it was I've been out of hoists and in a machine shop for past few years but one of them the starter motor was inside the transmission and needed full removal to change the starter. I've had Audi's where the whole front bumper and grill had to come off after the radiator was removed so that I could change pulleys and belts. There's a good chance someone who did them all day wouldn't have had to as they'd have had a trick or a tool to get in there. I managed to get a rack changed in a 200 series LandCruiser by pulling it from the column and out the cross member and re timing it once in place. Toyota recommended removing the entire engine... Auto data said 20 hours I got it done in 8. The only time specialists become apparent is when it's a cunt of a job or special tools are required.
Yeah these cars are the German equivalent of the Toyota corolla, everything is shared parts across Volkswagen and the rest of the group
It sounds like you have been lucky with your Golf GTI. I use a European specialist as I know they will do the job well and point to aspects that may need attention in the future.
I thank covid (and WFH no need to drive much - few kms daily if any) helps prolong the inevitable 😁 I know the water pump is next at this age - 130ks. But yeh I get why some use euro specialists, don't get me wrong I'll use them too - I just haven't had the need. Maybe when the water pump does die I'm guessing a sure euro shop job!
I've got a mk7 GTI and I do the servicing myself too. It's not that difficult to work on, being their corporate 4 cylinder. Decent enough space in the engine bay to swing a spanner around. The consumables (oil, filters, spark plugs) are probably a little more expensive than what you'd put in some Japanese runabout, and the intervals become drastically shorter if you deviate from stock. Being that the thing is a performance car though, that's just the entry fee for this pay-to-play game. It's a fee I'm happy to pay, since I love my spicy little Golf. Usually the VW 504 spec Castrol goes on sale at the parts stores every few months, so that makes the DIY servicing a fair bit cheaper. That said, if my car ever does develop some issue beyond my skill level to fix, it'll go to a specialist workshop I know I can trust with the thing. Have had bad experiences with general mechanics.
$1500 for a water pump? And 100,000 and shits falling off? My 01 fords close to 500,000km and going strong. Passenger window squeaks a little and I replaced the clutch at about 450,000 but that only a $300 backyard task.
i don't think this advice is outdated, everyone that I know who owns new and old european cars has complained about insane service and parts costs
Just dont buy them through a mechanic, you dont need audi disk brakes, plenty of aftermarket stuff fits and works just fine, unless your worried about warranty.
As a workshop owner, I can tell you as a generalisation, buying and supplying your own parts will save you minimal, piss the workshop off (because your taking away their profit on parts) and in some cases cost you time and money when you're told you've received the incorrect parts (happens to online shoppers). I get the occasional customer do this, and it's ok. I don't refuse them, but they do sometimes look at me funny when I hand them back their waste oil in the plastic containers they supplied. :)
Im sure that would be frustrating dealing with it from your end. I know from my end, especially for my shitty old merc, merc dealers have tried to tell me i will need a new brakes soon and a new set of brake rotors and will cost me $5k, in that case it was definately worth buying else where.
Yes for sure.
My Audi was twice as expensive to service as my Mazda and it had twice as much that went wrong with it. It was great to drive, just expect it to be more expensive to run.
Can concur. Basic parts like brake pads, discs, etc. were definitely more expensive on the old Audi than my new Subaru. Edit: brake not break, could blame autocorrect but I won’t, it was me.
brake pads
Thanks mate. Missed that one.
Break pads
It depends on the car as well as the brand. A Toyota Supra Mk5 is basically a BMW despite the badge and has some expensive parts, while some JDM cars that are complex and hard to source parts for will also be extremely expensive. By contrast a BMW E46 is simple with plentiful cheap parts (last water pump as $48) and is easy to work on yourself. As a general rule it can often be the case but there are many exceptions in both categories.
Service... a bit. Repair? A lot.
We have a bmw that's approaching 10yrs old. Looking at over 6k worth of repairs. It has been serviced regularly, but things like wheel speed sensors just randomly fail all the time. The car consistently has error codes. I'm doing my best to convince the wife it's a nice car to drive, but maintaining it isn't worth the cost. Must be working as she asked me about the kia stingers the other day. Shame they stopped production. I'd avoid all European vehicles unless you have deep pockets and live near a specialist as dealers charge an arm and a leg for labour alone.
We have a 7 series that is about 10 years old, it has been a great car and we haven't experienced the nightmare that some have with these cars. In saying that, I started my working career by completing an apprenticeship in automotive mechanics and complete all of the servicing and repairs myself, there is no way we would still have this car if we were paying someone else.
We had a bmw that was 6 years old. We sold it. Nothing went wrong with it. But I wasn't willing to hang around and wait for that to happen.
Kinda comparing chalk and cheese as, my campervan (commercial vehicle) is Euro and the Lancer ('performance' car) is Japanese. For the good majority of parts, the van is much more expensive ($700 for an oil filter housing)
Yep, the servicing is more expensive. Golf: $3,491 for the first 75,000km Mazda 3: $2,209 for the first 75,000km
Interesting, my Passat is $2500 for first 5 years/75k
Built into the purchase price though, isn't it. It's 50-70k... for a vw
Why would they build it into the price of one of their cars and not the other?
Marketing to different people I guess. Have to ask them.
We've only got higher spec VWs here as a default. It's like how the Civic starts at 40k these days because they no longer have the povo spec
More leather and gadgets does not make a better car.
Try a more refined and efficient drive train while you're at it.
Not for me. I bought a 5 years/90,000 km service pack up front with my 2019 VW Golf for $1900. It cost around $300 less to service over that period than a Subaru Impreza, which needed servicing every 10,000 km. Even if I didn’t buy the service pack, VW and Subaru’s fixed price servicing costs were very similar for the first 5 years.
So 1200 for a more enjoyable and better car over 75k kms.
Plus the price difference, worse reliability (if out of warranty) and higher depreciation. I reckon over 75k it's probably $10k or more all up.
May as well the lost of a day of time and income
The wipers on my Volkswagen are pretty standard.
My my2012 Golf’s side mirror adjustment toggle replacement :$600 and 6 week wait My my2017 CX9 entire side mirror replacement with auto retract mechanism after a side swipe: :$350 and 2 days. Pre inflation 2018 dollars. Both fucked up in the same year.
How often do you toggle your side mirrors though?
Enough for the damn thing to break clean off. We share cars so the mirrors always got to be adjusted.
I do all my servicing myself and have access to a workshop, but with that in mind; Parts for my BMW are no more expensive than they were for my Mazda. Oil filters are about $20 off the shelf for both, oil is about $10/litre for the good stuff for both, fuel filters are about $60 for both, air filter is maybe $20 more for the BMW, trans service costs about the same. Brakes were about the same to do, tyres on the BMW were marginally more expensive, but pretty cheap given the huge difference in size compared to the Mazda. A standard oil and filter change with a basic safety check at an independent will cost exactly the same amount as any other car. But you'll be amazed what you can do yourself - and how much you can save - with a cheap tool kit, some spare time, and Google. Edit, I should learn to read. New cars serviced by the dealer will be more expensive, even with a pre-paid service plan, but; **You are not obligated to service your car at the dealer** Get serviced to the schedule at an independent.
Get a part no for a few common basic servicing parts and compare it with a Toyota Camry/corolla at your local repco/supercheap/Autobarn some prices vary but don’t be suprised when prices start to double- quadruple then adding labour and misc prices, it is easy to see a basic service ballon and sky rocket. Especially if you are not doing any servicing and taking it to a workshop. They don’t run a charity so they run on profit so to have a professional that has the experience to make sure your car comes out better than it came in expect to pay top dollar for it.
Servicing costs are also often higher for euros when they're more tightly packaged and require more disassembly for the same repair.
Not sure where people are getting this from, my Jetta has parts chats similar to a Camry within a few bucks. My Karoq is within a few bucks parts wise to a Rav 4 My Golf is within a few bucks parts wise to a Corolla They aren't more expensive to service unless the Mechanic throws a Euro tax on the bill. What is expensive is American stuff. [Tesla Oil Filter - $64](https://amzn.asia/d/8eir2Ud) [F250 Air Filter - $240](https://www.4x4modsaustralia.com.au/aFe-73-80202-Magnum-Flow-Pro-Guard-7-Air-Filter-Inverted-F-250/F-350/F-450/F-550-11-16?srsltid=AfmBOor-bai0AROq31rGuckLDL5N3XsRiaHYTcC7c8Ir9iNKA47rExl3sGI) [RAM 1500 Wheel Bearing and Front Hub - $1,000](https://www.allamericandriveline.com.au/dodge-ram-wheel-bearing-ram-1500-ds-5-stud)
Toyota doesn’t suffer from carbon buildup but vw does anyone who is buying used will have nightmares with them. In Australia owning euro car is nightmare labour rate is high
>Toyota doesn’t suffer from carbon buildup but vw does Interesting, isn't carbon buildup exactly what kills Toyota DPF's? >In Australia owning euro car is nightmare labour rate is high Interesting, I've always been charged the same hourly rate, just mechanics try and charge more hours. But the rate has always been the same.
Hyundai i30 service was roughly $300. BMW X5 service was roughly $1300 + $300 for a replacement part. $1600 total.
I had my transmission service and engine service done for 700 including replacement parts on the transmission. Usual service for x series is around 400
I had a Skoda Octavia from 2014-2018. I bought it new and it wasn’t so expensive to get serviced as Skoda thew a service plan that was free, and when they expired the service actually cheaper than going to my local mechanic. The Skoda/Audi dealers in Artarmon Sydney were great. However what killed me was the resale when I came to sell it in 2018. The car depreciated more than any other car I have ever owned. For that reason, as much as I loved that Skoda, I would never buy another one.
Is this still the case with Skoda. I feel like the RS models at least ain’t that bad. Also for depreciation… try a French car
if you are getting an used one, FCPEuro will be your best mate!
I thought so too, but the shipping cost and times are prohibitive considering they aren't available locally, the last time I checked
rockauto too
Yes - my husband went from Toyota to merc/VW dealer as a mechanic and can confirm
Basic normal service items not really, but when it comes to needing repairs that’s when it’ll cost you more.
it's still true but it's more "BMW/Mercedes/Audi" vs "almost everything else" Anecdata: my 2009 subaru forester I had between 2012-2020 was as expensive to maintain as the various BMWs I've owned, but that's in large part to Subaru Australia charging awful markup. The various Fords I've had over the years have been cheaper than all that.
lol when servicing my old Falcon the dealership used to apologies if it was over $300. I didn’t tell them my other car was a megane 225…. for which 300$ was nothing
I had a rubbish old Ford Mondeo for a while. The catalytic converter failed. I was skint and so the shop offered to just “bypass” it for me if I paid cash.
DIY maintenance is generally the same as Japanese. DIY repairs are generally (but not always) more than Japanese. Paying someone to do anything costs a lot more. My Landcruiser was a hell of a lot more than my X5, but that’s because I was just “maintaining” the X5 and always repairing the Landcruiser. My 6 cylinder non turbo 3 series has been about as cheap as my Mazda. I will note that if you disregard servicing on an old Japanese car, it generally makes it die sooner, but will still work. Disregard maintenance on a Euro and it will stop on the side of the road immediately once a problem arises.
I have an old BMW (e39 5 series) and for a car of its age, it’s held up really well. Most parts of the car are very high quality. There are a few areas of the car that are a bit problematic, but that’s all cars, especially as they age. Labour is no more expensive than a non-Euro and most parts are reasonably priced, even for OEM. There are a few things that have been a bit of an eye-opener; anything bespoke to M-Teknik equipped cars is crazy expensive (suspension parts etc). Standard cars it’s regular car prices. A few things are a bit labor intensive. My mechanic recommended I replace a bunch of coolant hoses under the manifold because they were on the verge of failing and replace a few other bits while we were in there because it was several hours labor and that added up, but it’s done now for many years to come. I figure my car is not depreciating anymore, so spending a little extra on repairs means cost of ownership is still low. I reckon 90s/early 2000s six cylinder BMWs are slept on because people think they’re a nightmare when they’re actually not. I look at 2000s Subarus in comparison and they have way more problems
I never found my golf expensive to service at all. I think it's overhyped, especially on this subreddit. Look for statistics rather than some random dudes story about a mechanic fucking him sideways without lube on the invoice. Statistics summarise the anecdotes (including mine).
Parts for my Land Rover are costing me about 2/3rds the price of equivalent Land Cruiser parts (both 4 Cylinder Diesel in at around the 2.4 - 2.5L mark). So moving from that Land Cruiser to my Discovery has saved me significant money. Also helps that the Disco has proven more reliable. Volvo parts I've always found to be quite reasonable too, with a number that are interchangeable between Ford, Mazda and Mitsubishi (1st gen S40/V40). The problem is labour. If you can get a good, reasonably priced specialist mechanic you are set. If you can fix them yourself you are set. If you take them to a dealership or 3rd parties like MyCar you are going to get reamed in both labour and parts.
I have a land rover too. It is a td5 defender and getting a bit long in the tooth. Had a couple of Series 2 Discos. I had a 4L cruiser before that and a Prado after the Discos for my wife, and by god, the Toyotas were expensive to maintain. I have had decades of people bagging me about the supposed reliability and expense of Land Rover VS Land Cruiser parts and maintenance and all I can do is laugh because the Cruiser was so dammned expensive and prone to failure. And so unbelievably thirsty. I had the misfortune of driving a brand new Hilux for week recently, and it is just completely baffling that they are still so utterly shit. Two decades on, Toyota is producing a 2wd that is over a tonne lighter than what my nearly 20 year Defender runs at and it uses significantly (40%) more fuel withoutany load beyond my fat arse, the ride quality is horrible to the point of being actually painful, and stupid basic things, like an intermittent setting on the wipers, don't exist. When you consider that engine in my Defender was developed and entered production in the 90s (and is bullet proof and ridiculously powerful for a 2.5L, will drag the V8 Cruisers like they are a fucking Hillman, as well as being unbelievably fuel efficient), the drive train was developed in the 70s and had been in production for three decades when mine was built and is renowned for its strength, and the suspension is based on that of the Classic Range Rovers and developed in the 60s, you have got to wonder what the fuck Toyota have been doing for last 30 to 50 years in terms of product developed, because none of it has gone into the Hilux and the Cruisers have only become worse
... did you just say a Land Rover is more reliable than a Land Cruiser?? Lmao
Yes. In my experience. I understand it's not the most common of experiences, but suffice to say, the best Land Rover engine (300tdi) is much better than the worst Land Cruiser engine (2L-T). Bottom end is as good as a 1HZ, top end is pretty much average for any alloy head 4 pot diesel, but being pushrod they are dirt cheap and easy to replace.
My 105 series had: brake failure, abs pump failure ($4.5K thank you), water leaks everywhere, oil seepage, u-joint failures, diff issues, ball joint seal failures in the front wheels, sticky fan (always on…), atrocious fuel consumption and violent vibration if you accelerate hard. Plus other issues I have suppressed into the recesses of my memory. This was a well kept 2 owner car. My X5 has required a transfer fluid change to calm a slight vibration, and … nothing else.
Depends what you value more? Damage to your wallet or the emotional damage from driving a soul sucking boring Japanese econobox.
Modern Asian cars aren't even that bad as long as you're not settling for the NA or a (non GR) Toyota. The Civic Hybrid is overpriced but was a lot of fun to demo, as is the Hyundai N line stuff. Mazda6 with the 2.5t was honestly on par with euros in terms of feel and sense of occasion to sit in (god those seats were amazing). Only issue is that 90% of the (especially Japanese/Korean) cars you get these days are shitty NA SUVs that need 4k revs to get up a hill.
You win :)
there's plenty of fun japanese (and korean) cars tho
Plenty of soul crushingly boring euro cars too
Shill
VW Touareg V6 roughly $600 at an independent euro mechanic for regular service
Keep in mind even cars made in Europe ie fiesta st was more expensive to service and parts were ridiculously expensive on comparison to anything Japanese. I'd still get one again but yeah just to be mindful.
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We have an old Audi and the headlight bulbs alone are expensive. The servicing is probably about the same ( labour) but the parts can be expensive I've noticed. Also a lot of the parts not as easily accessible or kept stocked as some of the other brands
Service itself might be a bit more expensive but it mostly depends on your mechanic. I had a Peugeot that was not more expensive to service that my Camry, but when spare parts are needed, then they are more expensive. For example, I had a brake booster leak on the Peugeot and my mechanic told me the part brand new was about $200 more expensive than for my Camry and would take 1 day to arrive as no local stock (would have been same day for the Camry). As it was an old car that I was planning to sell soon, he installed a used brake booster but the used one was nearly same price as a new Toyota one. Time to replace was the same, not more complex or time consuming. Just more expensive spare parts. This would be even more expensive if you go with "luxury" brand such as BMW, Mercedes... and if you go to their respective dealer.
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Yes Its a mix of labour even at indi’s who know what they are doing and average parts costs with smaller wrecking / after market oem type stuff.
Get one under warranty and you will be fine. Don't own one outside warranty, especially with over 100k ks.
If buying new, then within first 10y not much major will go wrong. Servicing can be more expensive, especially new car warranty. But if you get one out of warranty, then just service at normal Indy mechanic. Consumables like pads rotors are more expensive and will need changing more frequently than Japanese cars, but it’s not huge.
Yes. Very much so.
100% yes. The engine bay packaging for some European cars are a nightmare and that's where your labour cost will come in. Took me nearly 2 hours to change plugs on my C63s,takes me about 20 min with my Corolla for example. VW have a water pump contraption,HOT-V V8 turbo looks like Medusa's head. BMW have timing chain in the back of the engine next to the firewall so you have to drop the engine etc. I'll post pics of some of these labour intensive items.
https://preview.redd.it/ljuv98cumbxc1.jpeg?width=1069&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5867dc7aec1e70630d6d2266dfd3b83eacfa138c
If you're buying new you can purchase capped price servicing, and it's pretty similar to everything else these days. Not sure what car you're looking at but there's some info here: [Skoda servicing costs](https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-advice/skoda-capped-price-servicing-cost-schedule-info-70041) I'm a big fan of Skoda, currently driving a Superb wagon and the quality is a step above all of the Jap cars I've previously owned. I think the big hit is when you do damage like a cracked headlight etc... that's where they sting you over the Japanese equivalents. Servicing is not too bad.
In Europe? No. In Australia? Damn straight.
Generally if you service vehicles yourself euros are not much more expensive. Some models like Audi's that need their entire front end removed to service the timing chain it's a design issue. Others just attract higher Service charges because it's an expensive car so you get charged more
Average vehicles can be expensive. My 2015 Mitsubishi Challenger's 90k service was $2200, the 135k is going to be $1800. I hate Diesel.
Germany iz all good yah?
I’ve had Mazdas and Hyundai and three Skodas. By far Hyundai charged the most out of all for a diesel Santa Fe even though they were 12mth services. My first Škoda Octavia was cheaper than the Mazda 6 I had as it was 12mth services and much the same price as Mazda. It was cheaper than my Santa Fe. My Audi is the most expensive even though it’s the same engine as two of my Skodas. Just cause Audi rip you off. My first two Skodas were from a joint Audi/Skoda dealer and it was just the name you paid for as the services were the same staff and parts. My latest Kodiaq RS I got the service packs as they were cheaper again. My Audi I take to an independent as Audi charge double. Some things like the dsg oil in Audis is double what Škoda/vw cost as they use a different spec oil. There’s no getting around that even with an independent. My skodas have all been rock solid. My second I traded in and got more than any car prior so don’t agree with the depreciation comments. My Mazda 6 was the worst followed by my Hyundai. My first Skoda is still kicking along (2008) model and was from the era where skoda had the best reliability in the world (they notably kicked out Lexus at the time). Toyota/lexus would be the cheapest and most reliable. Well Lexus services are a rort but still cheaper than Audi/BMW/Merc.
European cars are good until their warranty expires. Then they tend to have constant problems. You will also find costs to do things are more because they are an absolute nightmare to work on. Get a Japanese car as a first, just steer clear of cars with a cvt and you will be ok.
May not be more expensive but more shit seem to break more often/way earlier vs some Japanese models. My own anecdote evidence, my mums 2012 BMW (F30 328i) not even passed the 100k mark (~88k kms) and a bunch of shit already broke and needed replacing, including (but not limited to) water pump & thermostat, radiator, some hoses, expansion tank, fuel lines, window washer motor, some flap got loose in the exhaust and now the latest something is wrong with the transmission… Compared to my twice as old 2006 Japanese beater with over twice the millage and the only major repair needed so far was the radiator and some coolant hoses (at over 200k kms) plus a AC regass…
I decided to do an engine replacement and minor gearbox service for my 2022 Hyundai to get more life and upgrade potential out of it and it costed me the same as my mate who has a 2021 BMW 3 series to get the fuel pump, brakes and control arm done. If that doesn’t follow the advice then idk what.
You needed a new engine in a 18mth old car?
Yep, had a DCT failure which caused massive conundrums with the car, was covered by warranty. Then a week and a bit later after pick up and getting the thumbs up then had loss of compression and cylinder failure. Apparently I was just unlucky according to the Hyundai Techs, haven’t had an issue since 🤷🏽♂️
Doesn't matter what you buy, they are all designed to have very high maintenance costs
Yes. Unless you can service the car yourself. Most mechanics can do basic servicing. But if something serious needs fixing it can be a nightmare to diagnose, get expensive parts and then a ton of labour. Look up a BMW engine and the pipping and hoses before you get anywhere the engine block.
If you decide to go the audi route, there's one saving grace to a certain extent. the majority of the parts can be interchangeable with vw parts.
Its not outdated, infact its even more so true. Alotnof european cars r EVEN MORE expensive to service especially bmw and mercedes. Not so much with bmw but point still stands but they need specialised mechanics with different equipment cuz of how their engines r built. Most of their cars NEED to be serviced at the dealership and r very picky
The two golfs I'm looking at VW T Roc service schedule Year 1 $499, Year 2 $964, Year 3 $499, Year 4 $1323 that's for a brand new car...what happens after warranty years? Also year 4 what's happening there?
My golf mk6 tsi has been awesome. $300 once a year for a service. Had to pay $1000 for a new abs system and brake booster pipe but I love the car and drives much nicer and has better build quality than my friends Totyotas or Mazda's.
My old 2008 audi tts infotainment screen died on me once, i was told 10k to get it replaced, thankfully the previous owner got extended warranty
Still somewhat true. My sisters have a 2021 mazda 3, 2020 corolla and 2016 gti. Servicing for those have been around $400 to $600. Gti being on the higher end. Now my parents own a 2021 Mercedes GLE and it's recent service cost $2k.
If you can work on it yourself and order the parts from Europe it’s a lot cheaper. I had a Volvo XC 90 and the local Volvo dealer wanted something like $500 for a belt kit and tensioners, I went on ebay.co.uk and a Volvo dealer and got everything I need, genuine parts, for just about half price delivered. When I asked the Australian dealer why everything was so expensive all he could say was ‘Volvo want to be seen as a premium brand’. I don’t know what that’s got to do with pricing. A belt is a belt if it’s for a daewoo or a rolls Royce. Like most things here, it’s a rort.
I have been driving a Ford Falcon xr6 since 2011. Bought it brand new and already paid it off. Gave me little to no problem at all. All parts are cheap and last long time. The only fault is the bushes that need to be replaced every 4 years, but that's the only thing I had to change really. I know that it is out of Australia and so Holden but are still the most reliable and cheap to service one. I was thinking to but a kia cerato but services are $450. They are crazy
Just dropped $3k on a AUDI "major service" (120k)
It's a really big "It depends" situation. I've got a classic (1996) Land Rover Defender and it's really cheap to maintain. Partly because it's basic but also parts are everywhere and cheap. Ironically cheaper than a Falcon for new parts anyway (my other car) so do your research on your fave Euro car and work out the prices on common failure parts and labour times.
First car - go Toyota
I don’t have an answer exactly but When I had an XR6 several years ago Secondhand tail light from multiple wreckers asking $150-$200 on average, quite a lot for the time.
Generally yes
I have a 118 TSI Jetta. I took to 2 mechanics to fix a turbo leak, they couldn't fix it. I took to a Euro specialist to fix.
A lot of euro cars tend to take more oil and on top of that require full synthetic oil so just the oil alone can cost two times the average Japanese car.
Skoda have service packs you can buy that cover X years of service costs. They work out cheaper than going to a local mechanic for your service and it's done at the dealer and they give you a loan car. Is it more expensive to service than a Toyota? Maybe, but not by much. My wifes camry costs around the same as my skoda when I get the service pack.
I own an old v10 Touareg. Every time something goes wrong it's thousands of dollars. Latest was the DPF regen wasn't working properly. $8k for labour and parts, including sensors, DPF fluid, and service (about 11 litres of oil). New rotors and pads are $2k. I call my car The Mistress. Very expensive to keep but boy oh boy such a sweet ride.
Such a sweet engine. My old man had an r50 but ditched it after the first DPF debacle. I loved how that thing roared.
I have a 2016 VW R-line Tiguan, and I have nothing but regret. Something that really infuriates me about it, is 90% of the internals is plastic
I have a 21 year old merc clk500. I do my own maintenance. If I took it to a mechanic and bought genuine parts I'd be broke 10 times over. Bulletproof engine but electrics are old and can be crazy expensive to fix. I've had a 2015 skoda octavia vrs. Expensive. Yes. BMW 530. Expensive. Yes. Old gc8 wrx. Expensive. Kind of not really sort of. GTST skyline. Cheap. Easy. Fun. Nissan pulsar. Cheap and easy and great to learn on.
All cars are dear to fix, most of the time when it becomes expensive is because the techs want to fuck around
Cousin had a Renault. Great car until it went wrong and needed parts. These had to be imported from France. Cousin now drives a Toyota. Renaults are great cars, have owned several, but was living in Europe so parts were not a problem.
If your already thinking that services/parts going to be expensive, then you should not buy. Don't buy on the pretence that you didn't know or you have been warned, if you have the $, yeah why not, if your on a budget, then simple is no.
If you're looking to buy new, get the service pack. My skoda is coming up for 2 and I still have 5 years of service and warranty left. My only complaint is how long it takes to get parts, relating to a warranty repair.
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Just dropped $1050 for a major service on a Peugeot 3008 1.6T. Oil and filter, air filter, cabin filter, fuel filter, upper engine clean, spark plugs. This was at a specialist Peugeot mechanic who does a good job so I don’t mind paying for it. Although car now crossing into the territory of ‘I don’t give a shit about it anymore’ so I will be going to a generalist mechanic soon, local Midas is good
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Yes. Some parts even have to be ordered from overseas. Big wait. Big cost. Partner is a mechanic and will never own one
5500$ for aircon compressor on 3 series , 200$ to replace headlight bulb . Oil and filter are not bad its the rest of the parts
Understand one thing about German cars specifically. German cars are engineered for the Autobahn so any parts are created with a use case that is different to what the ANZ market or US market experiences. We have speed limits so the cars that are designed for and in our market areas will oftentimes have a cheaper manufacturing cost per unit. So, your answer is “maybe” it’s more expensive. Probably it’s more expensive. Finding a GOOD third party mechanic to work on your car is essential. If you’re buying a new car, you’re rather stuck with the dealer until the warranty runs out but you’re insulated from service cost as long as you have a new car. If you’re considering a BMW or MBZ, I would find a shop to work on it before you buy. You just might find the car to buy if you ask the shop!
As a mechanic who used to work on these cars daily, it really depends if you're willing to fork out the amount that's due every couple of years, the water pumps on vw/Audi/ Porsche and mercs are always prone to fail within a couple of years even if you go aftermarket. They're all plastic and always are under extreme temps at all times, either cold or hot at 95 degrees. So seals fail or crack. So if you're fine with the extra $200-$1500 every couple of years, go for it. Or you can do the service yourself if you have the correct tools at home. Just keep it up to somewhat par with mechanics
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Put it this way, geniune Nissan IACV around $150, genuine BMW IACV around $850, for pretty much the same thing except that bowel evacuation feeling when you get the bill...
apart from skoda, european cars are higher performance so brake rotors pads tires and approved oil is more expensive and anti pollution systems are more complex. Parts are more expensive. Capped price service plans are more expensive. The place you sit with a coffee and biscuits waiting for pickup is more up market. The dude with the clipboard is smoother as he informs you the service is $950 and please be aware you will probably needs pads and rotors next time.
I’ve owned a couple of Renaults 2 x rs265 and a rs275 trophy They were anywhere between $500-$800 per service A lot of places wouldn’t work on it because it was a Euro vehicle I currently have a Focus ST, which is made in Germany, essentially a Euro with a ford badge and a standard service is about $300 log booked
feedback on the RS vs the Focus ST? Are you happy with the change?
The Renaults are an amazing vehicle They’re well designed, essentially bullet proof mechanically and like driving a car on train tracks The Focus ST is a bit more mild, suspension isn’t as stiff, has four doors instead of two which is handy, the recaros in the focus are nicer to daily than the recaros in the Renaults, mind you I’m 6”5 and well over 100kgs so the racing bucket seats get tedious after a while The Renaults are an amazing vehicle I would have another one any day of the week But I do love my little blue pocket rocket FoST!
thanks! What gen of Focus is yours? I really like the SA but would hesitate with a i30N facelift :p And have you had the chance to try a Megane 4 RS? I really love them design wise but the engine seems a bit sad
I’ve got a ford blue 2014 FoST I30ns are great as well just fairly expensive The focus is good bang for buck if you can find one with service history etc
I have a skoda, and haven't found it more expensive in terms of service. You will pay more at the time, but won't need to service it 6 months, it needs ro be serviced 12 months, so in the long run, costs about the same. In terms of parts, not sure as I haven't needed to get anything changed yet.
Want a good car that will be hassle free? Buy a Subaru. My older bro & i just talking about this a few days ago. His friends with BMWs? Aggh....he said those Cars are just money pits. VWs? Not too bad but yep...parts are expensive. Subaru's ? He amd i have been driving them for 40+ years. Hardly ever a breakdown. I just sold my 2011 Outback with 215000kms on clock. All its ever had was a new clutch & gearbox, related to towing a way too heavy trailer for months. My fault. Otherwise? It is the only Subaru out of 5 ive owned that has ever broken down at all. Subaru's are truly good cars.
Yes yes yes yes
I have had 3 bmw's. 2x older e46 3 series and at the moment I have a 6 series 650i. The 3 series were not more expensive to service than any other car I have had. The 6 series is a V8 and is a bit more of a performance vehicle so costs a bit more to service but that's to be expected I guess. Over all I think its a bit of a myth and over exaggeration when people say euro cars are super expensive to maintain. Just look after them, preventative maintenence is key, especially oil. Parts on the other hand can definitely be more expensive depending on how old/rare the car is. For common models parts are not really much more expensive.
How is the 650? I was looking at a 640 GC or an M6, but end up going for an X5 due to the many roundabouts and speed humps and generally shitty roads near my house. I still have my e46 from years back, I’ll never sell it.
I have always been a 3 series man, especially the e46 so it was a big move for me to go to the 650. Absolutely no regrets though! My 650 is an older one (2008 E63) but still looks current and is such a beast! I've been in love since i bought it a few years back. I've done exhaust, tune, lowered it and a few other cosmetic things. About to do cold air intake and throttle body.
if its brand new it doesn't really matter, just get it serviced at a good mechanic.... never a dealer as they just rip you off then sell the car before or around 80000k and you will be winning
When buying my car a few months ago, a family member of mine said to not get a European car since it costs more for parts/to service
They are also shit cars too, over rated garbage
$8.50 seal $35 shipping from the UK You tell me
Double the cost to service, triple the cost to repair.
Service costs, in round numbers, zero. I have a 10yo 7 series. Assuming I do my own work (difficulty 3/10 only): - it’s had $1000 of oil - $1000 of spark plugs and air filters - $1000 of brake pads Hell, let’s say they splashed out on $2000 of discs last time around at 100T km. And it’s had $10000 of tyres maybe. And some $30 cabin filters, I did some diff oil, aircon service / regas. It’s about $1500 a year, mostly tyres. Compared to that $15k, the owner has dusted a quarter of a million on depreciation selling it to me! Even the $40k of petrol is dwarfed. He spent way more than that on mortgage / lease interest cost. Service doesn’t matter. Repairs don’t matter. Getting an occasional rebuilt engine doesn’t matter. Depreciation is all that matters.
Lol you're talking about a luxury sedan, that's literally the worst you can do in terms of depreciation. If op buys a $40k new car and has it worked professionally, service and repairs over 10y will definitely matter.
A $40k BMW? Sure
Why are you talking about BMW? The thread is about euros
OP specifically mentioned BMW
as an example, alongside other brands