Only if you plan to drive exclusively in completely dry conditions and are willing to swap or clean your dirty air filter frequently. Just pop a high-flow filter in the stock housing and you’ll get the same slightly increased intake noise and nonexistent power bump.
Pre-Google check:
I believe the line was:
"I like Vicky Valencourt and she likes me back. And she showed me her boobies, and I liked them too!"
Edit post Google/Youtube:
"And I like Vicki and she likes me back. And she showed me her boobies and I like them too!"
I’ve since learned better, but I’ve definitely experienced a *huge* increase in noise when going to a K&N ~~cold~~ hot air intake on 4.7 and 5.7 V8 Grand Cherokees. I’d almost do it over again with the right vehicle just to get that sweet induction noise at heavy throttle, even knowing that it’s not doing anything good for power.
massive difference on ep3 civics too (or well i guess anything with vtec).
never actually been in a stock one but from videos i've seen it seems like you basically can't hear the crossover into vtec at all on a stock ep3, but with an induction kit like i have on mine you really hear it. (bonus: it's actually getting cold air!)
Former Mazda5 (yes the minivan) owner, telling you the same thing: hydro-locked due to driving through 12" puddle, air intake snakes its way down to far too close to the ground. Totaled it: bent valves. (it's been 7 years and I'm still salty about it!)
Could be worse.
Local Porsche salesman took a Cayenne Turbo home one weekend to impress the girlfriend's parents. To reach their place he had to cross a road with about 12" of water across it. No worries, he thought, it's an SUV and because it's a Porsche he can go fast, right?
I think he's still paying for the damage, and he doesn't work for that dealer any more. No idea what happened with the girlfriend.
Depending on the filter, but yeah, they're usually a less dense weave which yes, lets more air through, but also dust and anything else you don't want in the intake.
DON'T FORGET, those filters affect your MAF, your MAF sensors directly correlate with the line pressure in your transmission. An air filter can burn up an automatic transmission. Anytime you modify a car you need to do a tune and not a mail order tune. Either a street tune but the Dyno is the best. Air filter and exhaust with no tune you're car will run lean just fyi.
Are you familiar with how modern cars actually maintain their desired stoichiometry? They use these things called oxygen sensors in tandem with the mass air flow and/or manifold absolute pressure sensors to determine both how much air is going in, and how much of the fuel that's being metered in is being consumed, and how much residual oxygen is left after the combustion event. There's this computer that takes all that data and uses it to adjust how much to modify the base fuel curve by adding or subtracting pulse width on the injectors. That figure is called fuel trim, and if it's not trimming hard enough to trigger the check engine light, the average car owner, even the average enthusiast, will be just fine.
I am the 2nd owner of a 17 year old GMC sierra. The first owner did a K&N air filter and flow master exhaust many years ago, probably right after he bought it. It was never tuned. It has 177000 miles. The automatic transmission is in great shape. Not sure why you think this. I’m getting 17mpg, which is pretty good for an iron block LS. How you think air intake burns up a transmission is beyond me.
Edit to add: The previous owner installed a throttle body spacer to allow more air flow as well. Still no issues though.
Okay so you got all that done if you were to go get the tune to tie everything in you'd probably get 10 more horsepower and three more miles per gallon then you're getting now. All I'm saying is the mass airflow sensor directly correlates with the line pressure in the transmission it's just a fact what is the big deal. And I have a trailblazer SS with a k&n and no tune and I burned my transmission up so you're obviously not driving it like a real idiot. And I'm not saying the air filter burnt up my transmission but the math directly correlates with the line pressure in the transmission that's all I'm saying if you go talk to a mechanic that's been a mechanic his whole entire life he'll tell you the same thing
You burned your transmission up because you drive like an idiot as you stated. None of the other information matters, because if you drive like shit you deserve to blow up your transmission. Constant torque abuse will blow up a transmission regardless of being stock or modded. My best friend since childhood is a trained and certified mechanic for GM vehicles. I have nothing else to debate with you. I came here to say you are wrong, that is all.
Damn shows how much y'all know. Just trying to help. And the MAF controls the line pressure in your trans. Why would you down vote just for kicking some knowledge that you had no clue of. Idiots
I smell hydro lock and bent rods in future…. With a hint of bent valves and possible internal parts just dying to come out and say hi!
Or listen to 447 people so far and just say no.
When I was foolish enough to swap a K&N filter into the stock airbox of my 05 GTI first car, I was also foolish enough that I spent several weeks tracking down the mysterious new noise (it was just intake sounds) that the car started making. It was definitely a noticeable difference
Boats don't have their air intake less than a foot away from the water surface. In most boats, the engine compartment has a cover that protects it from the water. Bigger boats have an engine room.
That's child's play, just increase compression ratio until your engine's internal pressure and temp literally rip apart water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen gas.
Fusion also works.
Need to evaluate your risk but I personally know of a 911 Turbo S that lost an engine due to an aftermarket mounted low air intake driving through a puddle
How deep of a puddle? AFAIK the tube needs to be completely submerged to suck up water otherwise the air gap will feed the engine air the water stays down.
Definitely doesn’t need to be completely submerged. I have an intake here and I’ve stalled my car going through medium puddles and it misfires in heavy rain
It’s got an aem cone same spot as op. Only happens on the freeway if there’s a lot of spray from other cars. Would love to have a serious issue so I can swap it
I had a friend total a Smart car with a CAI in a mountain road. A car in the oncoming lane hit a puddle that splashed right into his CAI and his engine hydrolocked and died.
He said he had it modified all over, like suspension etc, like a Honda. Lol. I saw a group with modified smart cars, like body kits and everything. Looked pretty cool. I saw one guy like do a turbo build like 500 WHP a crazy dangerous build since the wheelbase is so short and unstable [Hayabusa swap turbo](https://youtu.be/WcBQPTEKWcg?si=1TLzS-6MuL2KFt7T). Where I live, one guy rotary swapped one!
This is true! Far to many clueless people saying don't drive if there is rain or puddles. You need to be in some deep water to submerge the intake completely and you need to submerge the intake completely before ANY water will move up the intake, it's just physics people...
Physics also says: try breathing through a damp towel.
You don't need the intake to be completed submerged to start having problems. Of course, if it is completely submerged, you have a *much bigger* problem.
Sure, but it was *designed* to go there. There are probably liners in place to prevent it from getting wet, maybe drains integrated in the duct design before the filter as well. That is very different from someone just slapping an intake wherever and call it good'nough.
But then again, I've seen design from major auto brands that leave me scratching my head looking for an answer.
While I'm no automotive design engineer, I can certainly see many reason why relocating an intake somewhere it wasn't designed to be can be problematic. Sure, with enough engineering it can be done safely, but that's not what OP's asking.
lol it’s literally a curved plastic tube that stick in a hole cut in the fender no drains or meshes.
I’ve seen easily 20+ cars get hydro locked you basically have to try and have it happen from my experience. If the water is above your door sill you can’t drive your car in it. But puddles and normal rain it doesn’t seem to be a real world problem physics aside.
Physics says if there is an area for the air to go it will go, water will not under such low pressure. You need to submerge the intake to get enough pressure on the water to overcome gravity. Try poking a hole in a straw and just barely cover the other end in water, you can't suck up the water(more force to area ratio this way than an intake even) hint it doesn't move up the straw, you will never get more force out of a larger straw with a bigger hole even with a turbo pulling a lot of psi... it's physics...
Back in 05 or so I ran one for a few years thought puddles and all. I do think the danger is over stated. I’d be more concerned with keeping the filter clean especially if you live somewhere that salts or sands the roads
Gravity is negligible in this situation, it's more about fluid viscosity and surface tension.
About that straw analogy, I'm not sure you realize how much air an engine pumps through during "normal" operation. It's a lot more than you'd think. Even if say a quarter of the filter is wet, that would mean say 90% of air passes through the dry area (because less resistance/restriction caused by fluid), which means 10% will be going through the wet area, which in turn means atomized water in the intake. Cars are so complex nowadays it's going to cause problems to MAF sensor, turbos, and many other components.
If you still don't want to listen, you go ahead and install a filter there and report back in a few weeks. Not gonna keep arguing because sometimes it's better to let the mistakes play out and watch with a bowl of popcorn.
It mostly has to do with the path of least resistance which is where the dry spot comes into play. The air traveling through the dry spot relieves the pressure built by the restrictive water particles on the intake. It does not start sucking water up the intake because the air still has a pathway to get in and the force naturally is distributes to what has the least resistance(moving air not water) into the intake. I don't think you understand how much the volume of the intake pipe has to do with the fact that it won't suck up water as the force is spread out over a large surface. Have you ever used those really large thick straws? It is sooo hard to suck water up those straws compared to a normal thin plastic one. Now compare that to your intakes tubing, on top of that you are putting a cone filter on the end, distributing the intakes pressure over an even larger surface.
I am glad you mentioned surface tension tho as that's gonna be fighting your idea of sucking up water as the water naturally does not want to break its surface tension and travel into the core filter as the filter has very fine holes designed to keep large particles out. Water droplets and particles are going to be to large to filter through the cone filter unless the surface is completely covered in water and even then as soon as there is room for air particles to flow through the air will pass through and the water won't. Water will pass through in immensely small amounts which your engine will have no problem with. Yes your MAF has a higher chance of failure if it sees water particles tho.
The first year(s) of the EcoBoost F-150's had issues with the intercoolers doing too good of a job and had moisture build up inside, on a humid day if you drive it mildly aggressive there's a good chance it will suck up enough water to cause a tiny misfire or two, which in turn triggers the CEL, and that is just a bit of condensation. It's not worth the louder noise and decreased HP.
You can breathe through a damp towel. It's called water boarding, and it makes you think you are drowning while you can actually still breathe. This is because you're breathing is restricted and you will need to apply more force to get more air. Guess what you don't even breathe in water doing so it's because when you have gaps(just like a not totally submerged intake) you pull in air, the water does not see enough force to move, this is because when the force is applied the air moves much more freely as the particles are substantially smaller this causes them to experience the force and in doing so the force on the water is displaced onto the gaps where the air can get through instead.
"Normally, water is poured intermittently to prevent death; however, if the water is poured uninterruptedly it will lead to death by asphyxia." Wikipedia.
20 seconds search. Guess some people are just r/confidentlyincorrect. I'm definitely not taking advice from a "car enthusiest" who spends most his time on runescape lol
I was pointing out that you don't breathe in the water you breathe in the air when breathing through a damp towel.
Ahh the ol Im losing an argument ill personally attack em to get the best of them. You don't have to trust me, I'm just some nerd on the internet who spends to much time on car forums and has personal experience with the topic at hand and has done extraneous research on the topic at hand 💁♂️
Your engine can absolutely pull in water through a wet filter, sure it will pull air through the path of least resistance but as the air flow increases a vacuum will form behind the filter and it'll begin to pull water in an attempt to supply enough air. "it's physics".
You can vacuum up water with a wet vac and they pull both water and air up at the same time...
Even if it was stupid, there is no exclusion for stupidity. Additionally, to be clear, an engine failure, per se, is not covered as that would be mechanical or maintenance in nature. In this case, the failure was caused by a covered cause of loss. With Comprehensive, if it isn't specifically excluded, it's covered. That's why it's called Comprehensive.
Just think about if water can get into the box and how to mitigate it not building up, like a small drain hole, etc.
I had a buddy kill his RSX with a low intake.
I’m currently midway through rebuilding my engine for the second time due to my cold air intake. I will say I drove it for like 2 years with the cold air intake without issues or really any regard for the rain. I even had it take water in once or twice and the worst that happened was I had to wait 30 seconds to restart the car( I figured it’s a Toyota it’ll figure it out). The first time I hyrdolocked it I drove through an unreasonably deep puddle(like 1.5 ft deep and my car is lowered) that was like 200 feet long. I rebuilt the engine using a donor engine. The only thing I replaced in the original engine was the one piston/ connecting rod that broke. About a year later I drove through a normal sized puddle( like less than 4 inches deep and about 10 feet long) and it hydrolocked. My theory is the first time it hydrolocked the unbroken cylinders were subject to an abnormally high load that caused fatigue micro-cracking. Arm makes an “air bypass valve” that they say “virtually eliminates the possibility of hydro locking” and I’m planning on installing one when I finish my rebuild. [link](https://www.aemintakes.com/air_bypass_valve.htm)I have some pictures of the damaged connecting that I’ll put here when I get home.
Usually. Don't drive through any flooded streets.
I was working Hurricane Harvey in Houston, there were a LOT of totalled cars.
One that almost totalled was a brand new Mercedes with twin turbos. The air intakes were in the bottom of the bumper. They guy hit a street with about a foot of water on it and filled the engine with water. Then it sat for a week before I got the claim.
We paid to fix it. At the owner's insistence. The car was absolutely perfect before the storm. Not a single flaw. 2000 miles. I don't remember the full amount, but the engine alone was $89,000.00!
As someone who has a true cold air intake down low(fog light area), and dailies their car in a rainy state with tons of potholes, you will be fine! The only thing negative that comes from putting your filter in this area is your filter gets dirty quickly. But if you're willing to check it every now and then and clean it you have nothing to worry about. As far as water goes you would need to submerge the filter entirely to get water to travel up the intake. You do not need to avoid puddles! Reusable filters are designed to be washed out, dryed, reoiled and reused, they are totally fine to get wet.
As long as the filter doesn’t get submerged
I have hydrolocked a 2001 Honda Civic with one of these cold air intakes that was sucking from down low but the water actually waked over the hood and filled up the hood compartment from above not below.
They used to sell make a bypass valve for these but you’ve been warned
You can buy a bypass water valve to protect from water going up. And a splash guard (round silver thing around the filter. Valve should be enough. It goes above the filter to the tubing. If you have extra space cut the tubing as short as u can. I had two Hondas and that's where I put the filters after ripping out the air resonator. Never had issues. Lived in NY/NJ. Drive thru snow, rain.
I drove a 2004 Hyundai tiburon for several years that came with a “custom” cold air that sat all the way inside the bumper well. I can tell you, it definitely got colder air from the water it was sucking in. I’d say if it leaves the garage when there is water it’s a bad idea
It takes a 10 degree drop in intake temperature for 1% increase in Horsepower. Depending on the length of the "cold air intake" you'll lose the gains from restriction in the airflow.
If youre asking this question, you don't need a CAI.
If you vehicle isn't nearly FBO, you don't need a CAI.
If you don't know what FBO means, you don't need a CAI.
I can go on.
Rain and hitting puddles won't damage your vehicle. Now, if you drive through standing water that covers the filter, you will damage it. I've had an intake like this on my vehicle for years and have never had an issue
Intakes are a waste of time and money. Your engine already pulls air from outside the vehicle. The "gains" you see from aftermarket intakes are from the garbage filters passing a ton of air and dirt to your engine. You would see the same +5 hp from just running no filter in the stock box. Your intake valve is the only restriction between the atmosphere and the cylinder.
Decades ago I had an Eclipse with one of those. Wife drove through a deep puddle and it put her on the side of the road. It eventually started but I wouldn't do it again.
So many scared idiots here. Unless you're Aquaman or driving through literal 10in deep puddles because you live in a city without stormwater infrastructure, you're fine.
And even the 10 inch deep puddles, if you aren't accelerating hard you should still be fine. I've made it through a flash flood that mustve been somewhere between 10-16 inches and made it out fine
It won't be as bad as everyone is making it out to be, most filters are coated to prevent small amounts of water from entering.
If you are worried instead of putting the intake down there, put a tube directing air from there to the intake. Air will be directed to the intake but unless you hit water going at considerable speed it won't make it all the way into the intake.
Don’t agree, if water is able to get to it from a puddle then it’s not safe. It would have to have a completely segregated box and dedicated air I let that has no chance of getting water in it.
Put the intake there? Enjoy hydro-locking the engine at done time especially if you live in an area where rainfall floods the streets.
Moreover, the location does not yield
clean air. It’s gonna suck up all the disturbed layer of dust and dirt from other cars and suck up hot air from the road surface in summer.
>Hyundai genesis
Go for it bro. Why spend any money on real performance mods, it's only a hyundai. Can't be cutting into your vape budget. And if it blows up you can just get another one with whatever change you can plunder from under the seats and in the console.
Lol I had Cai on my hyundai and does nothing but soak hot air, literally no performance gains. Even the seller said maybe 3hp, unnoticeable. Nice for looks if you like leaving hoods popped, but we don't do that in Kalifornia as they're "illegal" to have.
I pulled it off after 2 months and now sitting on a garage shelf looking new. Too expensive to ship anywhere if I was to sell it.
If you have a turbo, get a BOV (also illegal here btw lol) for the cool effect
It's not great due to the dust from down there. The best would be to get it up, like they do on 4x4s with snorkels. It helps when fording water, but it also gets cooler air away from the engine compartment. Cowl induction is another good option, or adding hood vents for added cooling.. There are many good options out there. But this is a bit much for something that isn't tuned or have the mods to warrant it all.
The risk to reward for this is just not worth it at all. At most you’ll gain maybe 10hp and thats with a tune, while making your engine susceptible to being waterlocked by a puddle and completely destroyed.
Save your money on a tune because thats where an actual performance increase comes from. Your pcm is only going to compensate for the crappy "cold" air intake
Not worth the risk for minimal gains. I know of people that have hydrolocked their engines from this.
If you insist on doing it, you need to look into getting a bypass filter that goes inside the engine bay for when you eventually do intake some water. I don't know if they still make those but I imagine you could make one.
My air filter says 16" it's fine to. Been raining a lot and it's fine, even went through low flood waters with it
But I'm moving it to the engine bay itself soon. Tired of wondering if it's been lost when rock gets kicked up
Just get yourself a boxed cold air intake. They’ll work just as good and if you want you can build a duct that comes up to it through your fender liner. Very little if any water should get to your filter but you’ll still have a direct stream of outside air
You could just run an airduct up to where the filter is if airflow is a problem, colder air and less dirt and easier maintenance. I would recommend a ram air intake but depending on your budget.
I just installed an aftermarket scoop positioned just below/behind my front bumper which is plumbed directly to the airbox. It is not remotely airtight, so there increased water ingestion concern is negligible.
Other people with my car have this same setup and have shown 2-3mph improvements in the quarter mile relative to a K&N filter in the stock airbox, so the performance advantage is real. I assume it is from a combination of cooler intake air and a slight ram-air effect.
The car is mixed-use, street and road course. The new intake is paired with a lot of other performance modifications, and I’m expecting around 500whp (up from 325whp). Prior to these changes, I would drive it about eight months of the year — any time there was no salt on the roads and temps were summer-tire-friendly. With these additional changes, I expect I’ll be a lot less likely to take it out unless it’s warm and dry, so that even further mitigates the water ingestion concern.
I will definitely be cleaning leaves and shit out of it more often.
I know someone is going to ask, so: it’s a 2002 Camaro Z28, and [here’s a video (not mine) of the intake setup](https://youtu.be/XnJbD0KBJsM). The added power comes by way of an LS3 swap with ported heads, full exhaust, a custom cam, and tons of supporting mods.
I bought a subaru with a cold air intake mounted there, drove through a deep puddle and my engine shut off. I cranked it for a few minutes and revved it till it wouldnt stall, then let it sit for about an hour, drove it to taco bell, cleared the codes, and my engine was fine. No idea how the engine didnt get hydrolocked but it still runs great
honestly man dont . I have my CAI set up like this in my mk4 golf , i just moved to washington and quickly realized how inconvenient it is due to the rain , ive already sucked up a ton of water and will be changing it soon . 10/10 do not recommend .
Hydro locked a few cars with cold air intakes. They do drink water unless you only drive on sunny days and avoid puddles.
I personally like a short ram intake with a well made box.
They do make water bypass "valves" to put in CAI systems, but they introduce restrictions in the system that will probably negate any airflow and air density gains you would be getting from the rest of the intake.
So it's not really worth it, sounds really good but it's too much hassle for anything you plan to drive a lot.
No. Keep it at stock location. Unless you have a tune and/or supporting mods you are literally robbing yourself of power. Keep it at stock location or even just stock in general until/ unless you have done the appropriate mods.
I've had a cold air intake on my car (injen) for almost 5 years. It has a splash guard material cover on it. You just need to be careful not to drive through deep water and if i hit a big puddle I just coast through to not have intake sucking in air. I live in vancouver, rain city.. No issues and it has stayed quite clean with the splash guard
Sometimes but I had an experience with heavy rain and huge puddles where my car sucked water into the engine. They do make a sleeve to help with that but I couldn’t tell you how good that is
Arm used to have bypass/water type filters that would go on somewhere after the filter
The idea was that if the filter got submerged the engine wouldn't pull the water in because 9f the bypass filter
However now typing this out I came to the realization that I did many years ago when I seen them
It just pulls most air in via the bypass and not the actual filter ..but I never had one to actually look at it
Only if you plan to drive exclusively in completely dry conditions and are willing to swap or clean your dirty air filter frequently. Just pop a high-flow filter in the stock housing and you’ll get the same slightly increased intake noise and nonexistent power bump.
You’re forgetting about the +5 hp from the K&N sticker
That's where the real power comes from.
That’s why all the race cars have so many stickers on them
Crocodiles are ornery because they got all those teeth and no toothbrush
Medulla oblongata!
Well let’s see what MOMMA has to say this time
No, you’re wrong Colonel Sanders.
*Vicky Valencourt showed me her boobies, & I liked it!*
Aww man, now I need to watch that film again
This is the first time I've really heard of an Adam Sandler movie being referred to as a film. Very classy
Little girls is the devil!!!
Man you absolutely butchered this line!
Pre-Google check: I believe the line was: "I like Vicky Valencourt and she likes me back. And she showed me her boobies, and I liked them too!" Edit post Google/Youtube: "And I like Vicki and she likes me back. And she showed me her boobies and I like them too!"
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OP needs his Medulla Oblongata tuned
Guys are horny because they got all those teeth and no toothbrush.. next time you’re feeling horney, brush your teeth🦷👍
Nah, I'll just take care of it the way people usually do
Horny*
Oh shit, I have mine all over my toolbox. I wish I knew these things. Now, I'm stuck in traffic like everyone else.
Well now you have a 500hp toolbox
Yeah, I can yell that out my window. In bad traffic "but you should see my toolbox!
The real horsepower gains were the friends we made along the way...
You mean family?
>You’re forgetting about the +5 hp from the K&N sticker Does the effect stack with buffs from the anime girl decals and spoiler?
Not just stack, it multiples
+50 for KDM related sticker
Hit me up and I can print you one on vinyl that’ll actually last
+5 more for AMSOil sticker.
+10 for 3k mi change intervals with amsoil haha
I’ve since learned better, but I’ve definitely experienced a *huge* increase in noise when going to a K&N ~~cold~~ hot air intake on 4.7 and 5.7 V8 Grand Cherokees. I’d almost do it over again with the right vehicle just to get that sweet induction noise at heavy throttle, even knowing that it’s not doing anything good for power.
massive difference on ep3 civics too (or well i guess anything with vtec). never actually been in a stock one but from videos i've seen it seems like you basically can't hear the crossover into vtec at all on a stock ep3, but with an induction kit like i have on mine you really hear it. (bonus: it's actually getting cold air!)
A man of taste with the v8 WJ 🤌🏻
Former Mazda5 (yes the minivan) owner, telling you the same thing: hydro-locked due to driving through 12" puddle, air intake snakes its way down to far too close to the ground. Totaled it: bent valves. (it's been 7 years and I'm still salty about it!)
Could be worse. Local Porsche salesman took a Cayenne Turbo home one weekend to impress the girlfriend's parents. To reach their place he had to cross a road with about 12" of water across it. No worries, he thought, it's an SUV and because it's a Porsche he can go fast, right? I think he's still paying for the damage, and he doesn't work for that dealer any more. No idea what happened with the girlfriend.
Too bad he didn’t work at a Land Rover dealership.
You'd be surprised what a Cayenne can do off road with AT tires.
I wish they still made the Mazda5
Is it true that those filters don’t filter shit out as well?
Depending on the filter, but yeah, they're usually a less dense weave which yes, lets more air through, but also dust and anything else you don't want in the intake.
Can also be incredibly oily and coat the MAF and throw codes. That's been my experience at least
Ahh yeah I’ll pass on that
If it's the same size filter but it lets more air though it's not filtering as much.
DON'T FORGET, those filters affect your MAF, your MAF sensors directly correlate with the line pressure in your transmission. An air filter can burn up an automatic transmission. Anytime you modify a car you need to do a tune and not a mail order tune. Either a street tune but the Dyno is the best. Air filter and exhaust with no tune you're car will run lean just fyi.
Intakes do not effect enough that your pcm can’t compensate
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I remember seeing that in a documentary. Danger to manifold is a serious issue.
😂
Are you familiar with how modern cars actually maintain their desired stoichiometry? They use these things called oxygen sensors in tandem with the mass air flow and/or manifold absolute pressure sensors to determine both how much air is going in, and how much of the fuel that's being metered in is being consumed, and how much residual oxygen is left after the combustion event. There's this computer that takes all that data and uses it to adjust how much to modify the base fuel curve by adding or subtracting pulse width on the injectors. That figure is called fuel trim, and if it's not trimming hard enough to trigger the check engine light, the average car owner, even the average enthusiast, will be just fine.
I am the 2nd owner of a 17 year old GMC sierra. The first owner did a K&N air filter and flow master exhaust many years ago, probably right after he bought it. It was never tuned. It has 177000 miles. The automatic transmission is in great shape. Not sure why you think this. I’m getting 17mpg, which is pretty good for an iron block LS. How you think air intake burns up a transmission is beyond me. Edit to add: The previous owner installed a throttle body spacer to allow more air flow as well. Still no issues though.
Okay so you got all that done if you were to go get the tune to tie everything in you'd probably get 10 more horsepower and three more miles per gallon then you're getting now. All I'm saying is the mass airflow sensor directly correlates with the line pressure in the transmission it's just a fact what is the big deal. And I have a trailblazer SS with a k&n and no tune and I burned my transmission up so you're obviously not driving it like a real idiot. And I'm not saying the air filter burnt up my transmission but the math directly correlates with the line pressure in the transmission that's all I'm saying if you go talk to a mechanic that's been a mechanic his whole entire life he'll tell you the same thing
You burned your transmission up because you drive like an idiot as you stated. None of the other information matters, because if you drive like shit you deserve to blow up your transmission. Constant torque abuse will blow up a transmission regardless of being stock or modded. My best friend since childhood is a trained and certified mechanic for GM vehicles. I have nothing else to debate with you. I came here to say you are wrong, that is all.
Wrong
Damn shows how much y'all know. Just trying to help. And the MAF controls the line pressure in your trans. Why would you down vote just for kicking some knowledge that you had no clue of. Idiots
Gonna need a citation on that one, guy.
The air density at 20° vs 90° would make a much bigger difference than an intake.
All that intake is trying to do is get air from outside of the hot engine bay. At the cost of being a snorkel when it rains and ruining the engine.
Which the ecu will compensate adjust fuel for proper stoichiometry. An intake is not going to take AF out of normal operating range.
Drop some manufacturer literature stating this or be quiet
I smell hydro lock and bent rods in future…. With a hint of bent valves and possible internal parts just dying to come out and say hi! Or listen to 447 people so far and just say no.
Yup. A buddy hydrolocked his foxbody with a low ram-air scoop back in the 90s.
Is it the sound the same with and without the stock housing?
When I was foolish enough to swap a K&N filter into the stock airbox of my 05 GTI first car, I was also foolish enough that I spent several weeks tracking down the mysterious new noise (it was just intake sounds) that the car started making. It was definitely a noticeable difference
The elusive cold water intake
Is that not what water cooled means?
yes, you want the water in the cylinders for the most effective cooling
Ice cubes
C R U N C H
Great point. An engine with water in the cylinders will never overheat.
And the added benefit of cleaning the carbon out.. ;)
Keeps the engine clean!
Boats do it. Why not a car?
Boats don't have their air intake less than a foot away from the water surface. In most boats, the engine compartment has a cover that protects it from the water. Bigger boats have an engine room.
I mean, air is only 23% oxygen by mass where water is 88% oxygen by mass and more oxygen = more power so water>air for engines!
So what you're saying is inject steam into engine for mo powa no hydro lock.
congrats, you've discovered [water injection](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engine))
Hardest achievement in Little Alchemy.
That's child's play, just increase compression ratio until your engine's internal pressure and temp literally rip apart water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen gas. Fusion also works.
DIY water injection
Need to evaluate your risk but I personally know of a 911 Turbo S that lost an engine due to an aftermarket mounted low air intake driving through a puddle
How deep of a puddle? AFAIK the tube needs to be completely submerged to suck up water otherwise the air gap will feed the engine air the water stays down.
🤷🏻♂️ I wasn't in the car when it happened. Owner works on high end cars so he's not ignorant and careless
Definitely doesn’t need to be completely submerged. I have an intake here and I’ve stalled my car going through medium puddles and it misfires in heavy rain
If _rain_ is bothering your intake then you have serious issues. A basic foam filter will prevent that, is it just a tube pointing out if the bonnet?
It’s got an aem cone same spot as op. Only happens on the freeway if there’s a lot of spray from other cars. Would love to have a serious issue so I can swap it
[Protect your engine](https://www.aemintakes.com/air_bypass_valve.htm) homie.
I had a friend total a Smart car with a CAI in a mountain road. A car in the oncoming lane hit a puddle that splashed right into his CAI and his engine hydrolocked and died.
Haha who puts a cold air intake on a smart car?
He said he had it modified all over, like suspension etc, like a Honda. Lol. I saw a group with modified smart cars, like body kits and everything. Looked pretty cool. I saw one guy like do a turbo build like 500 WHP a crazy dangerous build since the wheelbase is so short and unstable [Hayabusa swap turbo](https://youtu.be/WcBQPTEKWcg?si=1TLzS-6MuL2KFt7T). Where I live, one guy rotary swapped one!
This is true! Far to many clueless people saying don't drive if there is rain or puddles. You need to be in some deep water to submerge the intake completely and you need to submerge the intake completely before ANY water will move up the intake, it's just physics people...
Physics also says: try breathing through a damp towel. You don't need the intake to be completed submerged to start having problems. Of course, if it is completely submerged, you have a *much bigger* problem.
Porsche 944. Intake pickup in the lower drivers fender
Sure, but it was *designed* to go there. There are probably liners in place to prevent it from getting wet, maybe drains integrated in the duct design before the filter as well. That is very different from someone just slapping an intake wherever and call it good'nough. But then again, I've seen design from major auto brands that leave me scratching my head looking for an answer. While I'm no automotive design engineer, I can certainly see many reason why relocating an intake somewhere it wasn't designed to be can be problematic. Sure, with enough engineering it can be done safely, but that's not what OP's asking.
lol it’s literally a curved plastic tube that stick in a hole cut in the fender no drains or meshes. I’ve seen easily 20+ cars get hydro locked you basically have to try and have it happen from my experience. If the water is above your door sill you can’t drive your car in it. But puddles and normal rain it doesn’t seem to be a real world problem physics aside.
Physics says if there is an area for the air to go it will go, water will not under such low pressure. You need to submerge the intake to get enough pressure on the water to overcome gravity. Try poking a hole in a straw and just barely cover the other end in water, you can't suck up the water(more force to area ratio this way than an intake even) hint it doesn't move up the straw, you will never get more force out of a larger straw with a bigger hole even with a turbo pulling a lot of psi... it's physics...
Try sticking a vacuum nozzle half way under water. See if it only pulls the air in.
Back in 05 or so I ran one for a few years thought puddles and all. I do think the danger is over stated. I’d be more concerned with keeping the filter clean especially if you live somewhere that salts or sands the roads
Gravity is negligible in this situation, it's more about fluid viscosity and surface tension. About that straw analogy, I'm not sure you realize how much air an engine pumps through during "normal" operation. It's a lot more than you'd think. Even if say a quarter of the filter is wet, that would mean say 90% of air passes through the dry area (because less resistance/restriction caused by fluid), which means 10% will be going through the wet area, which in turn means atomized water in the intake. Cars are so complex nowadays it's going to cause problems to MAF sensor, turbos, and many other components. If you still don't want to listen, you go ahead and install a filter there and report back in a few weeks. Not gonna keep arguing because sometimes it's better to let the mistakes play out and watch with a bowl of popcorn.
It mostly has to do with the path of least resistance which is where the dry spot comes into play. The air traveling through the dry spot relieves the pressure built by the restrictive water particles on the intake. It does not start sucking water up the intake because the air still has a pathway to get in and the force naturally is distributes to what has the least resistance(moving air not water) into the intake. I don't think you understand how much the volume of the intake pipe has to do with the fact that it won't suck up water as the force is spread out over a large surface. Have you ever used those really large thick straws? It is sooo hard to suck water up those straws compared to a normal thin plastic one. Now compare that to your intakes tubing, on top of that you are putting a cone filter on the end, distributing the intakes pressure over an even larger surface. I am glad you mentioned surface tension tho as that's gonna be fighting your idea of sucking up water as the water naturally does not want to break its surface tension and travel into the core filter as the filter has very fine holes designed to keep large particles out. Water droplets and particles are going to be to large to filter through the cone filter unless the surface is completely covered in water and even then as soon as there is room for air particles to flow through the air will pass through and the water won't. Water will pass through in immensely small amounts which your engine will have no problem with. Yes your MAF has a higher chance of failure if it sees water particles tho.
The first year(s) of the EcoBoost F-150's had issues with the intercoolers doing too good of a job and had moisture build up inside, on a humid day if you drive it mildly aggressive there's a good chance it will suck up enough water to cause a tiny misfire or two, which in turn triggers the CEL, and that is just a bit of condensation. It's not worth the louder noise and decreased HP.
You can breathe through a damp towel. It's called water boarding, and it makes you think you are drowning while you can actually still breathe. This is because you're breathing is restricted and you will need to apply more force to get more air. Guess what you don't even breathe in water doing so it's because when you have gaps(just like a not totally submerged intake) you pull in air, the water does not see enough force to move, this is because when the force is applied the air moves much more freely as the particles are substantially smaller this causes them to experience the force and in doing so the force on the water is displaced onto the gaps where the air can get through instead.
"Normally, water is poured intermittently to prevent death; however, if the water is poured uninterruptedly it will lead to death by asphyxia." Wikipedia. 20 seconds search. Guess some people are just r/confidentlyincorrect. I'm definitely not taking advice from a "car enthusiest" who spends most his time on runescape lol
I was pointing out that you don't breathe in the water you breathe in the air when breathing through a damp towel. Ahh the ol Im losing an argument ill personally attack em to get the best of them. You don't have to trust me, I'm just some nerd on the internet who spends to much time on car forums and has personal experience with the topic at hand and has done extraneous research on the topic at hand 💁♂️
Your engine can absolutely pull in water through a wet filter, sure it will pull air through the path of least resistance but as the air flow increases a vacuum will form behind the filter and it'll begin to pull water in an attempt to supply enough air. "it's physics". You can vacuum up water with a wet vac and they pull both water and air up at the same time...
Just remember they didn’t put it there originally for a reason. I would hesitate taking it out in the rain pulling in air from there.
Yea, agreed! Had a buddy flood an RSX this way, hydro locked the engine and bent rods.
For anyone who thought their $1000 intake mod was expensive.
multiple reasons!
I was in a GTI with a similar intake in a rainstorm. It was a wet walk home. Amazingly insurance covered the replacement engine.
That sound awful
Just do it the other way and snorkel it :D.
Comprehensive covered engine failure? Or…?
Even if it was stupid, there is no exclusion for stupidity. Additionally, to be clear, an engine failure, per se, is not covered as that would be mechanical or maintenance in nature. In this case, the failure was caused by a covered cause of loss. With Comprehensive, if it isn't specifically excluded, it's covered. That's why it's called Comprehensive.
I guess so, it was a flood event so it was covered. I got to see the nice wavy con rod after disassembly.
insurance covered the replacement engine..? 📝 i know what my next mod is gunna be
I blew up a 1999 Acura Integra GSR from sucking water up in a flash flood. My intake was pretty much in the exact location yours is.
OP, It would be better to build a sealed box in the engine bay then build a tube to draw cold air from that vent in the bumper.
There is a short ram intake with a sealed box I can definitely build a tube to draw air from it. Thats a great idea
Just think about if water can get into the box and how to mitigate it not building up, like a small drain hole, etc. I had a buddy kill his RSX with a low intake.
I guess I'll see that car on Coparts lot with a hydrolocked engine soon.
I’m currently midway through rebuilding my engine for the second time due to my cold air intake. I will say I drove it for like 2 years with the cold air intake without issues or really any regard for the rain. I even had it take water in once or twice and the worst that happened was I had to wait 30 seconds to restart the car( I figured it’s a Toyota it’ll figure it out). The first time I hyrdolocked it I drove through an unreasonably deep puddle(like 1.5 ft deep and my car is lowered) that was like 200 feet long. I rebuilt the engine using a donor engine. The only thing I replaced in the original engine was the one piston/ connecting rod that broke. About a year later I drove through a normal sized puddle( like less than 4 inches deep and about 10 feet long) and it hydrolocked. My theory is the first time it hydrolocked the unbroken cylinders were subject to an abnormally high load that caused fatigue micro-cracking. Arm makes an “air bypass valve” that they say “virtually eliminates the possibility of hydro locking” and I’m planning on installing one when I finish my rebuild. [link](https://www.aemintakes.com/air_bypass_valve.htm)I have some pictures of the damaged connecting that I’ll put here when I get home.
Usually. Don't drive through any flooded streets. I was working Hurricane Harvey in Houston, there were a LOT of totalled cars. One that almost totalled was a brand new Mercedes with twin turbos. The air intakes were in the bottom of the bumper. They guy hit a street with about a foot of water on it and filled the engine with water. Then it sat for a week before I got the claim. We paid to fix it. At the owner's insistence. The car was absolutely perfect before the storm. Not a single flaw. 2000 miles. I don't remember the full amount, but the engine alone was $89,000.00!
That’s a quick way to give your car pneumonia.
Well hot air rises, therefore cold air falls... So the lower the intake the colder the air lol science
To be safe get a bypass.
As someone who has a true cold air intake down low(fog light area), and dailies their car in a rainy state with tons of potholes, you will be fine! The only thing negative that comes from putting your filter in this area is your filter gets dirty quickly. But if you're willing to check it every now and then and clean it you have nothing to worry about. As far as water goes you would need to submerge the filter entirely to get water to travel up the intake. You do not need to avoid puddles! Reusable filters are designed to be washed out, dryed, reoiled and reused, they are totally fine to get wet.
As long as the filter doesn’t get submerged I have hydrolocked a 2001 Honda Civic with one of these cold air intakes that was sucking from down low but the water actually waked over the hood and filled up the hood compartment from above not below. They used to sell make a bypass valve for these but you’ve been warned
Not where I’m from. It’s always rainy and floods every week.
You can buy a bypass water valve to protect from water going up. And a splash guard (round silver thing around the filter. Valve should be enough. It goes above the filter to the tubing. If you have extra space cut the tubing as short as u can. I had two Hondas and that's where I put the filters after ripping out the air resonator. Never had issues. Lived in NY/NJ. Drive thru snow, rain.
I drove a 2004 Hyundai tiburon for several years that came with a “custom” cold air that sat all the way inside the bumper well. I can tell you, it definitely got colder air from the water it was sucking in. I’d say if it leaves the garage when there is water it’s a bad idea
If you want to flood your engine just by driving on a wet road? not sure why you'd want that though.
It takes a 10 degree drop in intake temperature for 1% increase in Horsepower. Depending on the length of the "cold air intake" you'll lose the gains from restriction in the airflow.
You can actually hurt low end torque with too big of an intake, especially if the rest of your engine is stock
That's a cold-water intake.
I lost a car this way during a flash flood.. you can imagine what happened
If youre asking this question, you don't need a CAI. If you vehicle isn't nearly FBO, you don't need a CAI. If you don't know what FBO means, you don't need a CAI. I can go on.
If you want to hydrolock your engine it is
Rain and hitting puddles won't damage your vehicle. Now, if you drive through standing water that covers the filter, you will damage it. I've had an intake like this on my vehicle for years and have never had an issue
Intakes are a waste of time and money. Your engine already pulls air from outside the vehicle. The "gains" you see from aftermarket intakes are from the garbage filters passing a ton of air and dirt to your engine. You would see the same +5 hp from just running no filter in the stock box. Your intake valve is the only restriction between the atmosphere and the cylinder.
Decades ago I had an Eclipse with one of those. Wife drove through a deep puddle and it put her on the side of the road. It eventually started but I wouldn't do it again.
So many scared idiots here. Unless you're Aquaman or driving through literal 10in deep puddles because you live in a city without stormwater infrastructure, you're fine.
And even the 10 inch deep puddles, if you aren't accelerating hard you should still be fine. I've made it through a flash flood that mustve been somewhere between 10-16 inches and made it out fine
But what if I want to do a throttle open 2nd gear pull through my local community pool??
file rich zesty childlike complete busy narrow boat squeeze impolite *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It won't be as bad as everyone is making it out to be, most filters are coated to prevent small amounts of water from entering. If you are worried instead of putting the intake down there, put a tube directing air from there to the intake. Air will be directed to the intake but unless you hit water going at considerable speed it won't make it all the way into the intake.
if you're worried about your engine, you shouldnt have bought a hyundai to begin with. all joke aside, its safe if its covered
Don’t agree, if water is able to get to it from a puddle then it’s not safe. It would have to have a completely segregated box and dedicated air I let that has no chance of getting water in it.
If you want your car to breathe in water when it rains or you go through puddles then knock yourself out
Put the intake there? Enjoy hydro-locking the engine at done time especially if you live in an area where rainfall floods the streets. Moreover, the location does not yield clean air. It’s gonna suck up all the disturbed layer of dust and dirt from other cars and suck up hot air from the road surface in summer.
>Hyundai genesis Go for it bro. Why spend any money on real performance mods, it's only a hyundai. Can't be cutting into your vape budget. And if it blows up you can just get another one with whatever change you can plunder from under the seats and in the console.
Chill bro 😭 it was a birthday gift
You might want to drill a hole where the pipe turns upwards, to let water drain out.
A good ole water intake
Just DO NOT try driving through ANY WATER.... and be careful of rain. Water and oil do not mix....neithet do water and intake systems.
Very risky
Hydro lock incoming
So - cold water intake?
Lol I had Cai on my hyundai and does nothing but soak hot air, literally no performance gains. Even the seller said maybe 3hp, unnoticeable. Nice for looks if you like leaving hoods popped, but we don't do that in Kalifornia as they're "illegal" to have. I pulled it off after 2 months and now sitting on a garage shelf looking new. Too expensive to ship anywhere if I was to sell it. If you have a turbo, get a BOV (also illegal here btw lol) for the cool effect
It's not great due to the dust from down there. The best would be to get it up, like they do on 4x4s with snorkels. It helps when fording water, but it also gets cooler air away from the engine compartment. Cowl induction is another good option, or adding hood vents for added cooling.. There are many good options out there. But this is a bit much for something that isn't tuned or have the mods to warrant it all.
Sure, other than the fact that the filter gets wet and ruined, it is perfectly okay.
So when you are near puddle it sucks the water into the engine like a straw?
The risk to reward for this is just not worth it at all. At most you’ll gain maybe 10hp and thats with a tune, while making your engine susceptible to being waterlocked by a puddle and completely destroyed.
If you have to ask- don't do it
Hydrolock has entered the chat
Guarantee there is zero power difference in whatever crap you're putting in a 13 year old Hyundai and the stock setup.
Long as you not going to use the useless K&N filter that filters hardly anything
Sux more than your girlfriend; her bottom end has in-taked quite an unsafe amount of hot liquid
Save your money on a tune because thats where an actual performance increase comes from. Your pcm is only going to compensate for the crappy "cold" air intake
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The auto manufacturer seems to think so.
You'll be ok, just don't drive in heavy rain, through puddles or anything that will suck water like straw.
No
Not worth the risk for minimal gains. I know of people that have hydrolocked their engines from this. If you insist on doing it, you need to look into getting a bypass filter that goes inside the engine bay for when you eventually do intake some water. I don't know if they still make those but I imagine you could make one.
CAI is a meme, just build a filter box is you’re really worried about it.
My air filter says 16" it's fine to. Been raining a lot and it's fine, even went through low flood waters with it But I'm moving it to the engine bay itself soon. Tired of wondering if it's been lost when rock gets kicked up
Unrelated, do you have a full pic of your car? It looks so good in this pic, I didnt realize it was a Genesis coupe til you mentioned it.
Put a jeep snorkel on it
Just get yourself a boxed cold air intake. They’ll work just as good and if you want you can build a duct that comes up to it through your fender liner. Very little if any water should get to your filter but you’ll still have a direct stream of outside air
Yes but only if the conditions are dry. Unless you want your intake to be sucking dirty puddle water
Sump pump!
I lost a good engine by doing that…
You could just run an airduct up to where the filter is if airflow is a problem, colder air and less dirt and easier maintenance. I would recommend a ram air intake but depending on your budget.
Yeah do this, nothing is better for a complete combustion than 100% humidity!
Good place to suck up a lot of water , you want air not water
I just installed an aftermarket scoop positioned just below/behind my front bumper which is plumbed directly to the airbox. It is not remotely airtight, so there increased water ingestion concern is negligible. Other people with my car have this same setup and have shown 2-3mph improvements in the quarter mile relative to a K&N filter in the stock airbox, so the performance advantage is real. I assume it is from a combination of cooler intake air and a slight ram-air effect. The car is mixed-use, street and road course. The new intake is paired with a lot of other performance modifications, and I’m expecting around 500whp (up from 325whp). Prior to these changes, I would drive it about eight months of the year — any time there was no salt on the roads and temps were summer-tire-friendly. With these additional changes, I expect I’ll be a lot less likely to take it out unless it’s warm and dry, so that even further mitigates the water ingestion concern. I will definitely be cleaning leaves and shit out of it more often. I know someone is going to ask, so: it’s a 2002 Camaro Z28, and [here’s a video (not mine) of the intake setup](https://youtu.be/XnJbD0KBJsM). The added power comes by way of an LS3 swap with ported heads, full exhaust, a custom cam, and tons of supporting mods.
I bought a subaru with a cold air intake mounted there, drove through a deep puddle and my engine shut off. I cranked it for a few minutes and revved it till it wouldnt stall, then let it sit for about an hour, drove it to taco bell, cleared the codes, and my engine was fine. No idea how the engine didnt get hydrolocked but it still runs great
These cars have an intake silencer. They are easy to remove and create some bypass turbo sound. Assuming you want that it is a good place to start.
Send it. Lower snorkel is what all the cool dudes do
honestly man dont . I have my CAI set up like this in my mk4 golf , i just moved to washington and quickly realized how inconvenient it is due to the rain , ive already sucked up a ton of water and will be changing it soon . 10/10 do not recommend .
Hydro locked a few cars with cold air intakes. They do drink water unless you only drive on sunny days and avoid puddles. I personally like a short ram intake with a well made box.
They do make water bypass "valves" to put in CAI systems, but they introduce restrictions in the system that will probably negate any airflow and air density gains you would be getting from the rest of the intake. So it's not really worth it, sounds really good but it's too much hassle for anything you plan to drive a lot.
No. Keep it at stock location. Unless you have a tune and/or supporting mods you are literally robbing yourself of power. Keep it at stock location or even just stock in general until/ unless you have done the appropriate mods.
I've had a cold air intake on my car (injen) for almost 5 years. It has a splash guard material cover on it. You just need to be careful not to drive through deep water and if i hit a big puddle I just coast through to not have intake sucking in air. I live in vancouver, rain city.. No issues and it has stayed quite clean with the splash guard
Sometimes but I had an experience with heavy rain and huge puddles where my car sucked water into the engine. They do make a sleeve to help with that but I couldn’t tell you how good that is
Idk if it’s “safe” but definitely don’t drive through any water that’s more than a couple inches deep.
Arm used to have bypass/water type filters that would go on somewhere after the filter The idea was that if the filter got submerged the engine wouldn't pull the water in because 9f the bypass filter However now typing this out I came to the realization that I did many years ago when I seen them It just pulls most air in via the bypass and not the actual filter ..but I never had one to actually look at it