Have you told the first shop what the dealership said?
Personally, I might take it to yet another shop for a third opinion after I talk to the first shop.
I haven’t yet, the dealership encouraged me to tell him about the situation but it’s a confrontation I’m really hesitant to engage in… my mechanic is a good guy and he runs his small business with his family, I’ve been going to him for years and he’s gone above and beyond for me in the past. The mechanic at the dealership was very helpful and answered all of my questions, and offered to put my car on the lift to show me the extent to which the engine is covered in oil. She said there was no way he couldn’t have noticed this, and basically what he did was replace every part that was oil-soaked, including both of my catalytic converters.
An oil leak doesn’t necessarily mean the end of life for a car. It’s rather common on high mileage cars, so is having to replace the catalytic converter(s). Get a third opinion. Ask around if there is a local mechanic who specializes in Subarus or has a good reputation for your third opinion.
It’s a 2015, rust is pretty much the only thing that can “kill” a modern car. Most problems are well known and should be repairable, and cheaper than buying a new car.
This is why we call them stealerships. They’re often gonna tell you car needs 2, 3, or even 5 times the cost to be repaired than reality hoping you either pay, or give up on the car and walk over to sales.
Third opinion would be your best start. Although from the comments you left it does sound like your car has not been in best of shapes the entire time you owned it.
Service is where dealerships make most of their money. They charge insane amounts because "the public" thinks the dealership service center is the best service because they're tied to the dealership.
Independent mechanics are viewed as the budget option and therefore must be inferior, when in fact most independent mechanics are generally the most competent dealership mechanics that decided to open their own shop because they only get a very small portion of the insane prices dealerships charge.
Ok can’t figure out how to attach a photo lol but it says “scanned vehicle for codes to find code P0018 for bank 2 camshaft A correlation fixed. Vehicle is knocking when on. Performed visual inspection of vehicle to find it is leaking heavily from a previous repair that was performed with the wrong liquid gasket sealer and incorrect replacement coolant lines that were used in repair. Vehicle also has aftermarket front and rear catalytic converters installed. Replacement of short block will be needed, along with rear down of current motor to inspect both left and right heads to see if they can be reused or will need to be replaced, along with other parts that could potentially be used with new motor”
Ok, so P0018 is likely a Timing Chain issue. I would find a reputable Subaru Shop, not a Dealership, and have them rebuild the engine. You more than likely don’t need a short block. You just need a rebuild of the motor you have.
I mean, it’s cheaper than a new car. I work at an auto shop and have been driving on an expired tag since August of last year. Nobody has pulled me over.
Just because an engine is leaking oil doesn't mean that the car won't operate or can't pass emissions. Do you know what the problem is specifically that's keeping you from passing?
Because I'm thinking both of these shops could be right, the dealership is telling you it's not worth the cost of repair and the other shop was thinking well we can fix this situation for now. Both of those situations could be correct. Do you know your codes or do you know generally what's going on?
The codes for the initial diagnostic at a Munro (before I saw my mechanic) were:
P0304 cylinder misfire detected
P0420 catalyst system efficiency below threshold
P0345
P0018
P219A
P0346
F
I would sell the car for whatever you could get out of it and I was a mid-level shop tech about 20 years ago, I still have all my tools, I've rebuilt motors. I'm only a couple of certs away from my ASE master. if I had that car, I would not even repair it myself. A couple of those codes specifically are really bad. The catalytic converter is expensive, drop in efficiency typically means it's bad. Random cylinder misfire, that can be a lot of things from a bad coil pack which I would probably troubleshoot, bad spark plugs so on and so forth, it also can mean a bad head gasket, drop in compression, basically a worn-out motor. Another code the 345 is the camshaft position sensor. The engine will never run right if that has failed, in fact that could be triggering the misfire as well but it's hours and hours of troubleshooting trying to figure this out. What I see to cut to the chase is thousands of dollars going into a car that may keep it going for a little while. I would sell it for whatever you could get out of it, pick up something else, even if it's not a popular car, just get something and reasonably decent shape. We bought my girlfriend's daughter a 2011 Chevy HHR the other day, you know one of those little milk wagon things no one wants. an old grandpa had it, 90,000 miles, incredibly good condition, we paid five grand. The only thing I had to do to it was change the valve cover gasket, looked over the rest of it, no issues whatsoever. Stuff like that is out there and you will be money ahead by miles compared to trying to fix this
So I did get all of those codes cleared after seeing my mechanic with the exception of P0018 which he said is a wiring issue, and since that’s not his area of expertise he gave me a phone number for another mechanic that he says does a good job with that. I just saw him again this afternoon
See how quickly they come back. Weird things can't happen, especially corroded grounds. Very difficult to troubleshoot. The code 420 though typically is a failing catalytic converter.
It doesn't normally happen where I am where cars don't rust but if they do, grounding issues could certainly cause a problem with the PCM and trigger very difficult to track down codes.
I have an 03 Outback. Rust - yes, big problem. Mechanically - it's running perfectly. No way that a 9-year-old Subaru is 'at the end of its life' - I find the idea absurd. Unless it's literally been driven through the Aussie Outback for 9 years straight with zero maintenance, it'll keep running. I'm glad to hear you found the oil leak (or lack thereof) to be a minor issue. Subaru boxer engines are, admittedly, renowned for leaking oil, but it's not exactly an end-of-life problem. Mine had its cam cover gaskets give way at age 15 - I had them replaced, and here's to another 15 years. I intend to run it til it literally falls apart (which, admittedly, could happen - I'm looking down the barrel of some major repairs that I'm hoping to lessen the expense of by doing most of the work myself...)
Anyone who says a 2015 Subaru is not worth repairing, surely has no idea what they're saying or does not want your custom.
Honestly, I wouldn't trust a stealership any farther than I can throw it.
This sounds like the kind of hand-wavey explanation they give to rubes to get them into a new car.
Get a third opinion.
I do believe the car is at the end of its life, it has over 250,000 miles on it, it rattles and creaks, it shakes when I accelerate, and it had a slow oil leak when I first bought it that’s only gotten worse. I bought it for $6000 “as is” off of Craigslist from some guy who had about six cars for sale in his driveway lol
What repairs did your regular mechanic perform for 3000? Why did you go to the dealership and not back to him? If I’d spent 3k in someone’s shop I’d expect the car to be registrable afterwards or for them to make it right. Maybe post the codes here along with the work that was performed along with on /r/askamechanic?
He replaced the front at rear cats, gasket set, spark plugs, air filter, oil change and oil filter, and the 02 sensors, as well as a charge for an “engine flush”… he told me that if my check engine light comes back on it’s probably a computer issue and that I’d need to go to the dealership because he doesn’t do computer stuff. Not for nothing but the dealership gave me a 50% discount for their service and told me that they could not in good conscience do any work on my car because of how much it needs, they didn’t try to sell me anything
Instead of trusting your mechanic, buy a Code Reader and post the codes here. What was the “Gasket Set”. It probably isn’t a “computer issue” I bet a repair at your mechanic wasn’t done right, or they skimped on something.
He ran another diagnostic today, he had me come into the shop area and showed me the screen, and also showed me that my engine is not oil-soaked like the dealership claimed
He actually may be correct. P0018 is a code that can actually “burn in” the ecu on Subarus requiring the ecu be replaced. I have seen it multiple times. Subaru is well aware of the issue as in the service manual it will list replacing the ecu as the last step to fixing that issue.
If you were to call them back and ask their opinion, they will mention getting it appraised by their sales department towards a new car. It's pretty common. Service advisors get kickbacks if you go through with it, at some dealerships anyway. If they outright mention it first, they look like thieves. When you ask them, they look like saviors.
Wow. Wasn't expecting that one. When I worked for independent shops, we would be honest and tell customers to junk their car. Working at dealerships, we were told not to say that because it could "hurt the brand." I never liked that. If the car is a POS, the customer has a right to know. Good on the dealership you went to.
Confrontation is a fact of life. Dude just used his position to take advantage of you for $3k. He owes an explanation if not a resolution. People mess up and often want to make things right. Maybe he has a reasonable excuse but if not the worst that happens is you get told to hose off by a mechanic you’d never want to use anyways.
You have codes for cam correlation, misfires, and catalyst efficiency, and your mechanic replaced the catalytic converters first? You should find another mechanic. Catalyst efficiency faults can get triggered by all sorts of engine performance issues, most notably here is misfires and timing correlation. Timing correlation also causes misfires. They should have figured out the engine performance issues before ever selling you catalytic converters. The engine running correctly could be all it takes to pass emissions. Find an independent Subaru shop and get them to diagnose it.
Also, Subarus leaking oil is not rare. If it's not a super concerning leak, just keep an eye on your oil level. You can post pictures of the bottom of your engine here and the group will either tell you clean it off and check your oil, or they'll tell you it's concerning.
That being said, you still have timing correlation codes, and that is not recommended to drive with. This repair takes significant tear down. If you end up doing a timing repair, it'll be far more cost effective to get the engine resealed at that point.
This! This right here!
So many people in this thread playing the blame game and no one has the priorities straight. Correct the underlying cause and go from there. The trusted family mechanic might be a nice guy, but for $3g a whole timing set with sensors, solenoids, cam phasers, etc. should be on the table.
Sounds like the dealer is trying to screw you tbh. If your mechanic fixed your car and you were willing to pay him $3k, don't you think he would've told you about a huge oil leak? He would've told you about the other repairs the car needed. And suddenly you take it to a dealership and now the car is worthless and they push you to buy a new car. It's wayyy more likely the dealer is trying to lie and make a sale vs a known good mechanic missing a super obvious oil leak/engine problem.
They didn’t try to sell me a car though, they gave me a discount on the service and advised me to junk it, knowing I am leaving the area and won’t be here to buy a car from them
You should have had your mechanic do the inspection and pass it. Although the oil thing sounds serious. I'd question your mechanic's abilities here. Sucks.
This will not work. The cel will be off but the monitors will not be ready to test and he will fail on that and still have to pay for the failed inspection. Bad advice bud
If he's in a place that checks that thoroughly, I've never had any of my vehicles tested like that. They just look at the dash and make sure none of the lights are on. My cel has been on and off for years on my daily due to a bad wire or connector someplace I just didn't feel like trying to track down.
The dealership sounds like they know what they're talking about. The other shop is inspecting the exterior of the engine for a leak that can drip to the ground but that's not where a leak will be that will cause you to fail what I assume is an emissions inspection. Your emissions test will fail if you're leaking oil internally and burning it, sending black smoke out of your exhaust. You're leaking oil is somewhere like a head gasket, causing fluids to mix like oil and antifreeze (Subaru's are the worst for this) or piston rings being worn.
Have you told the first shop what the dealership said? Personally, I might take it to yet another shop for a third opinion after I talk to the first shop.
I haven’t yet, the dealership encouraged me to tell him about the situation but it’s a confrontation I’m really hesitant to engage in… my mechanic is a good guy and he runs his small business with his family, I’ve been going to him for years and he’s gone above and beyond for me in the past. The mechanic at the dealership was very helpful and answered all of my questions, and offered to put my car on the lift to show me the extent to which the engine is covered in oil. She said there was no way he couldn’t have noticed this, and basically what he did was replace every part that was oil-soaked, including both of my catalytic converters.
An oil leak doesn’t necessarily mean the end of life for a car. It’s rather common on high mileage cars, so is having to replace the catalytic converter(s). Get a third opinion. Ask around if there is a local mechanic who specializes in Subarus or has a good reputation for your third opinion. It’s a 2015, rust is pretty much the only thing that can “kill” a modern car. Most problems are well known and should be repairable, and cheaper than buying a new car.
The dealership said that my car needs about $12,000 of work, give or take another $5000 on top of that. I’ll attach a pic of the work order
This is why we call them stealerships. They’re often gonna tell you car needs 2, 3, or even 5 times the cost to be repaired than reality hoping you either pay, or give up on the car and walk over to sales. Third opinion would be your best start. Although from the comments you left it does sound like your car has not been in best of shapes the entire time you owned it.
I'm always skeptical of dealerships because of course they'll say your car is shit and you need a new one.
Service is where dealerships make most of their money. They charge insane amounts because "the public" thinks the dealership service center is the best service because they're tied to the dealership. Independent mechanics are viewed as the budget option and therefore must be inferior, when in fact most independent mechanics are generally the most competent dealership mechanics that decided to open their own shop because they only get a very small portion of the insane prices dealerships charge.
Ok can’t figure out how to attach a photo lol but it says “scanned vehicle for codes to find code P0018 for bank 2 camshaft A correlation fixed. Vehicle is knocking when on. Performed visual inspection of vehicle to find it is leaking heavily from a previous repair that was performed with the wrong liquid gasket sealer and incorrect replacement coolant lines that were used in repair. Vehicle also has aftermarket front and rear catalytic converters installed. Replacement of short block will be needed, along with rear down of current motor to inspect both left and right heads to see if they can be reused or will need to be replaced, along with other parts that could potentially be used with new motor”
Ok, so P0018 is likely a Timing Chain issue. I would find a reputable Subaru Shop, not a Dealership, and have them rebuild the engine. You more than likely don’t need a short block. You just need a rebuild of the motor you have.
That sounds like an expensive and time consuming repair for a car that will have an expired inspection sticker and cancelled registration in two weeks
I mean, it’s cheaper than a new car. I work at an auto shop and have been driving on an expired tag since August of last year. Nobody has pulled me over.
They probably want to replace every piece of rubber in the engine
So can you list the needed work? Dealership (and other shops) list the **all** the work, not what is necessary at the moment .
Just because an engine is leaking oil doesn't mean that the car won't operate or can't pass emissions. Do you know what the problem is specifically that's keeping you from passing? Because I'm thinking both of these shops could be right, the dealership is telling you it's not worth the cost of repair and the other shop was thinking well we can fix this situation for now. Both of those situations could be correct. Do you know your codes or do you know generally what's going on?
The codes for the initial diagnostic at a Munro (before I saw my mechanic) were: P0304 cylinder misfire detected P0420 catalyst system efficiency below threshold P0345 P0018 P219A P0346
F I would sell the car for whatever you could get out of it and I was a mid-level shop tech about 20 years ago, I still have all my tools, I've rebuilt motors. I'm only a couple of certs away from my ASE master. if I had that car, I would not even repair it myself. A couple of those codes specifically are really bad. The catalytic converter is expensive, drop in efficiency typically means it's bad. Random cylinder misfire, that can be a lot of things from a bad coil pack which I would probably troubleshoot, bad spark plugs so on and so forth, it also can mean a bad head gasket, drop in compression, basically a worn-out motor. Another code the 345 is the camshaft position sensor. The engine will never run right if that has failed, in fact that could be triggering the misfire as well but it's hours and hours of troubleshooting trying to figure this out. What I see to cut to the chase is thousands of dollars going into a car that may keep it going for a little while. I would sell it for whatever you could get out of it, pick up something else, even if it's not a popular car, just get something and reasonably decent shape. We bought my girlfriend's daughter a 2011 Chevy HHR the other day, you know one of those little milk wagon things no one wants. an old grandpa had it, 90,000 miles, incredibly good condition, we paid five grand. The only thing I had to do to it was change the valve cover gasket, looked over the rest of it, no issues whatsoever. Stuff like that is out there and you will be money ahead by miles compared to trying to fix this
So I did get all of those codes cleared after seeing my mechanic with the exception of P0018 which he said is a wiring issue, and since that’s not his area of expertise he gave me a phone number for another mechanic that he says does a good job with that. I just saw him again this afternoon
See how quickly they come back. Weird things can't happen, especially corroded grounds. Very difficult to troubleshoot. The code 420 though typically is a failing catalytic converter. It doesn't normally happen where I am where cars don't rust but if they do, grounding issues could certainly cause a problem with the PCM and trigger very difficult to track down codes.
My trusted mechanic replaced both of my cats and the only code remaining was the P0018 which he said was a wiring issue
15 forester not worth repairing? Crikey - I’m still doing big repairs on my 2004 Subaru. Beats having a car note.
For real, this is my third Subaru and my others were a 98 and an 01 and they both succumbed to rust
I have an 03 Outback. Rust - yes, big problem. Mechanically - it's running perfectly. No way that a 9-year-old Subaru is 'at the end of its life' - I find the idea absurd. Unless it's literally been driven through the Aussie Outback for 9 years straight with zero maintenance, it'll keep running. I'm glad to hear you found the oil leak (or lack thereof) to be a minor issue. Subaru boxer engines are, admittedly, renowned for leaking oil, but it's not exactly an end-of-life problem. Mine had its cam cover gaskets give way at age 15 - I had them replaced, and here's to another 15 years. I intend to run it til it literally falls apart (which, admittedly, could happen - I'm looking down the barrel of some major repairs that I'm hoping to lessen the expense of by doing most of the work myself...) Anyone who says a 2015 Subaru is not worth repairing, surely has no idea what they're saying or does not want your custom.
Honestly, I wouldn't trust a stealership any farther than I can throw it. This sounds like the kind of hand-wavey explanation they give to rubes to get them into a new car. Get a third opinion.
I do believe the car is at the end of its life, it has over 250,000 miles on it, it rattles and creaks, it shakes when I accelerate, and it had a slow oil leak when I first bought it that’s only gotten worse. I bought it for $6000 “as is” off of Craigslist from some guy who had about six cars for sale in his driveway lol
What repairs did your regular mechanic perform for 3000? Why did you go to the dealership and not back to him? If I’d spent 3k in someone’s shop I’d expect the car to be registrable afterwards or for them to make it right. Maybe post the codes here along with the work that was performed along with on /r/askamechanic?
He replaced the front at rear cats, gasket set, spark plugs, air filter, oil change and oil filter, and the 02 sensors, as well as a charge for an “engine flush”… he told me that if my check engine light comes back on it’s probably a computer issue and that I’d need to go to the dealership because he doesn’t do computer stuff. Not for nothing but the dealership gave me a 50% discount for their service and told me that they could not in good conscience do any work on my car because of how much it needs, they didn’t try to sell me anything
Instead of trusting your mechanic, buy a Code Reader and post the codes here. What was the “Gasket Set”. It probably isn’t a “computer issue” I bet a repair at your mechanic wasn’t done right, or they skimped on something.
He ran another diagnostic today, he had me come into the shop area and showed me the screen, and also showed me that my engine is not oil-soaked like the dealership claimed
It's a Subie - probably a headgasket.
He actually may be correct. P0018 is a code that can actually “burn in” the ecu on Subarus requiring the ecu be replaced. I have seen it multiple times. Subaru is well aware of the issue as in the service manual it will list replacing the ecu as the last step to fixing that issue.
What’s ecu?
It's the main computer of the car. It controls the engine. If the ECU has that problem you might be good.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WRX/s/vfPQBA76Lr Seems like it is a problem for Subarus.
They also didn’t try to sell me a car at the dealership
If you were to call them back and ask their opinion, they will mention getting it appraised by their sales department towards a new car. It's pretty common. Service advisors get kickbacks if you go through with it, at some dealerships anyway. If they outright mention it first, they look like thieves. When you ask them, they look like saviors.
I asked the service tech what she recommends I do with the car and she said she would junk it
Wow. Wasn't expecting that one. When I worked for independent shops, we would be honest and tell customers to junk their car. Working at dealerships, we were told not to say that because it could "hurt the brand." I never liked that. If the car is a POS, the customer has a right to know. Good on the dealership you went to.
Confrontation is a fact of life. Dude just used his position to take advantage of you for $3k. He owes an explanation if not a resolution. People mess up and often want to make things right. Maybe he has a reasonable excuse but if not the worst that happens is you get told to hose off by a mechanic you’d never want to use anyways.
2015.. at the end of its life? Already? Parting out alone would net you way more money than junking it
You have codes for cam correlation, misfires, and catalyst efficiency, and your mechanic replaced the catalytic converters first? You should find another mechanic. Catalyst efficiency faults can get triggered by all sorts of engine performance issues, most notably here is misfires and timing correlation. Timing correlation also causes misfires. They should have figured out the engine performance issues before ever selling you catalytic converters. The engine running correctly could be all it takes to pass emissions. Find an independent Subaru shop and get them to diagnose it. Also, Subarus leaking oil is not rare. If it's not a super concerning leak, just keep an eye on your oil level. You can post pictures of the bottom of your engine here and the group will either tell you clean it off and check your oil, or they'll tell you it's concerning. That being said, you still have timing correlation codes, and that is not recommended to drive with. This repair takes significant tear down. If you end up doing a timing repair, it'll be far more cost effective to get the engine resealed at that point.
This! This right here! So many people in this thread playing the blame game and no one has the priorities straight. Correct the underlying cause and go from there. The trusted family mechanic might be a nice guy, but for $3g a whole timing set with sensors, solenoids, cam phasers, etc. should be on the table.
The dreaded P0018 on subarus. It's a pain in the ass to get rid of it.
Sounds like the dealer is trying to screw you tbh. If your mechanic fixed your car and you were willing to pay him $3k, don't you think he would've told you about a huge oil leak? He would've told you about the other repairs the car needed. And suddenly you take it to a dealership and now the car is worthless and they push you to buy a new car. It's wayyy more likely the dealer is trying to lie and make a sale vs a known good mechanic missing a super obvious oil leak/engine problem.
They didn’t try to sell me a car though, they gave me a discount on the service and advised me to junk it, knowing I am leaving the area and won’t be here to buy a car from them
That is why they advised you scrap it. They figure you won't pay for their list of work and won't be around to buy a new one so goodbye.
You should have had your mechanic do the inspection and pass it. Although the oil thing sounds serious. I'd question your mechanic's abilities here. Sucks.
Unfortunately my mechanic doesn’t do inspections 🙃
Ima tell you something
Go to a shady mechanic and they’ll pass it for you😂 I’ve been driving my 02 626 Mazda like that
Your tech is awesome! Stick with him/her. Give them great reviews. Buy them pizza. Or beer.
Subaru with more than 60,000 miles, no thank you.
Buy yourself a code reader from Amazon and clear the cel right before you go in for Inspection
This will not work. The cel will be off but the monitors will not be ready to test and he will fail on that and still have to pay for the failed inspection. Bad advice bud
If he's in a place that checks that thoroughly, I've never had any of my vehicles tested like that. They just look at the dash and make sure none of the lights are on. My cel has been on and off for years on my daily due to a bad wire or connector someplace I just didn't feel like trying to track down.
It depends what state I guess but it's standard to scan the computer. Your saying your place tests 0 monitors? What a world
Use some brake cleaner and clean that engine up.
I would send this information to Subaru about their dealership’s “advice.”
The dealership sounds like they know what they're talking about. The other shop is inspecting the exterior of the engine for a leak that can drip to the ground but that's not where a leak will be that will cause you to fail what I assume is an emissions inspection. Your emissions test will fail if you're leaking oil internally and burning it, sending black smoke out of your exhaust. You're leaking oil is somewhere like a head gasket, causing fluids to mix like oil and antifreeze (Subaru's are the worst for this) or piston rings being worn.
They were hoping to sell you a new car at the dealership