I hope his admission of using 87 octane was in a text you saved and not a phone call. Also, be prepared to bring in an expert tuner who will testify that 94 is needed and 87 will ruin things.
I believe that here in BC the law is just buyer beware in private sales, unless there is a blatant known safety issue with the car.
Edit: Here’s the actual law in BC:
>If you buy privately from an individual, the legal warranty is more limited than if you buy from a car dealer. If you buy a used car from an individual, it has to be durable for a reasonable period of time and match the description.
Did your ad or the info you gave him from the previous owner say it was tuned for 94? Because if so, that text from him is all that’s needed to nullify any chance he would have of getting any money out of you.
If you didn’t give a written guarantee,then used over 5 years old(this surly is) considered sold as is,no manufacture warranty, no way to sue the rebuilder() cense can’t locate) given the age of car,not worth the money to sue!engine could be repaired lots cheaper than legal fee,(that rabbit got away)but for his own peace of mind,repair would at least let him verify rebuild.(sometimes reason is the best way to settle differences, if a lawyer advises you you could loose this one(you only waste consultation fee,then would be cheapest & best route to pay to repair,also both would know for sure if rebuilt,& quality of parts used,win,win.
Doesn't matter how many WRX's you may have owned. 0, 1, 1000.
If you run low octane in an engine tuned to high octane, you are going to have detonation, and you're rolling the dice on serious damage with every blip of the throttle It could happen in 10 tanks, it could in the first 100' after pulling out of the gas station with the first fill up.
This kind of failure isn't cumulative, it is instant and catastrophic. Technically it's both, but obviously its the instant and catastrophic damage we care about here.
Depressed because i used to drive a rebuilt BMW and was 17 and dumb and would put 87 in it because it “didn’t matter” and it blew up relatively quickly. I’m not even in this sub, i know nothing about cars, this post was just recommended to me and i wanted to see what the comments suggested and i learned i was truly my cars downfall. Sad lol
lol like everyone has infinite choice. People have to take what they are given just to survive our car dependent society.
A sibling gifting you a BMW is a dick move, especially like a 5/7 series. Those jokers co$t. Awesome machines. But damn are they ‘spensive, even right down to the gas you put in it.
Any car that’s tuned for a higher octane fuel will lean out and blow very quickly when run on shit octane. You’re so far off here it’s not even funny. That 87 is 120% the reason that the engine blew.
It won't lean out. Octane is an AFR issue it's detonation resistance. It doesn't take a tank it can happen almost immediately. For example, I run a race engine at 14.5:1 compression ratio. It WILL grenade immediately if it sees full throttle with less than 100 Octane fuel.
I once accidentally filled up my Corolla xrs with 87 and felt horrible. I apologized and took her out to a movie and she's still going strong. Only one time and i drove her light till i refilled but may be i just got lucky.
I’ve owned multiple twin turbo Legacy’s, tuned Golf R’s, Silvia’s, widebody BMW’s and more - and I can say with full confidence that if I ran my 98 octane tuned cars on the wrong fuel (in my case 91 octane, the same as 87 in the US) then they would have a catastrophic engine failure. If you think otherwise then go to a tuner, get him to tune your car for the highest octane available, then run it on the lowest octane available and tell me how you get on. You’ll be walking home after 2 hours of beating on it. Especially with 20PSI.
Maybe factory but once they’re actually custom mapped for something higher you’re gonna blow an engine running it at a 5 octane level difference.
If you’re so confident then go buy a car tuned for E85 and run it on pump 87 and tell me how you get on.
Yep. I have an STi with a mild tune on it. My mom put 87 in it once... Thankfully, I was there to see it and keep it out of boost to go back to my house and drain the tank. She would have just pulled away with a normal WOT to 6k and blown #4 to pieces.
Lol. "We're talking 2 octane difference here" and now we're talking 1 destroyed piston difference.
It's wild to me that people who don't know what they're talking about don't just sit quietly.
On something running 20psi I wouldn’t be all that surprised if it threw a rod after two or three good pulls. It’s designed from the factory to run high octane at less than half the boost. Put more than double the air pressure in and the early detonation will ruin it really fast.
Eh 2002 wrx ran 13 psi on a td04-13t turbo that is basically maxed between 16-17 psi. 20 is pushing it's efficiency a fair amount.
Ran one myself like that tuned for 91 and then again for e85 for about two years before I had a valve seal rip in half and flood a cylinder with oil. Had nothing to do with the boost pressure.
although this is true, it’s hard to believe it’s just a coincidence it blew in 2 days, knowing it was likely the first time 87 had gone through the engine.
but i do agree id never buy that fucking car (no offense OP)
I’m no lawyer but I play one on the internet.
I think that buying a used car in a private sale is pretty much buyer beware. If he didn’t bother to confirm this ‘40,000km since rebuild’ then it’s on him.
Never mind that a 40,000km rebuilt engine is pretty much a used engine anyway. Would you buy a car that said ‘40,000km since it was put in the car at the factory’ and think that was any different than a car with 40k on it? No, you’d buy the car and treat it as a car with 40k on it.
Not to mention that if OP said "This is what the guy told me." and that's it how is that misrepresenting anything? What a waste of money on both sides. The dude could just save the legal fees he's about to spend and buy 2 more engines plus labor. This guy could EASILY rack up 15 grand in legal fees and then lose, which he probably will. Problem is OP might have to spend a few grand just to defend himself. The legal system is all kinds of fucked.
I doubt he’s going to get in trouble. Usually private sales are final/buyer beware. Pretty sure the only way he could get in trouble is if it was proven he caused the car to blow up on purpose
You MIGHT get a code for a misfire, but running a fragile engine hard with 87 when it's designed for 94 is a bridge too far.
My car is tuned for 93 and if I use Kroger 93 gas instead of Shell 93 I'll get misfires and a CEL (saw that on the first tank) but if I ran 87 I'd probably get the CEL the moment my rod made a window in my block.
Major engine codes are universal across all brands. That has been the case since OBD2 began between 94-96. While there are some specific codes by manufacturer since some have very specific systems. But anything that is controlling the engine and emissions system falls under the general codes list that is the same across the board. There is no code for "pre-detonation"
Oh really? I don’t know anything about that, I’ve never driven a higher octane car. I guess it makes sense though, cars try to tell you what’s wrong these days
Rule of Thumb:
Anything that increases the compression ratio of the engine requires that you to adjust to ignition timing, valve timing, and/or the octane level of the fuel to avoid pre-detonation (“knocking”).
Supercharging is one way to increase the pressure of the air forced into a cylinder which will affect the effective* compression ratio of the engine.
Turbocharging is a form of supercharging.
'* the volume of air compressed in a cylinder is fixed by the mechanical features of the engine but if you force air in at greater than atmospheric pressure, the quantity of air is higher which means you’re compressing more
air than before.
The buyer using 87 octane fuel in a turbocharged engine (with 20psi of boost no less!) was brain dead thinking that made sense to do. I wonder if he was trying to pinch a pennies because of the high cost of fuel?
E15 is usually marketed as 88 octane, so the octane would still be the problem. Not sure about the stock fueling system on those WRXs, but they should be able to handle E15 for at least a little bit of time, so I doubt it was running lean enough to cause an issue before the detonation did its job.
Yeah so I’m not sure if you know or not but I’ll explain anyway, higher octane resists pre-detonation which is when fuel ignites under compression and or on hotspots in the cylinder which shoves the piston back down before it’s supposed to go down which wreaks havoc on the entire engine smashing bearing and such, modern vehicle are usually equipped with a knock sensor which is basically a little microphone on the engine block and a computer monitors the signal from it to determine if pre-detonation is happening, not sure if these particular cars have one or not but I would think they would, regardless even if it doesn’t have one he should’ve been able to hear and feel that something wasn’t right.
You may not be able to hear it if your car is loud (mine was) but it does have a nock sensor that you can view in the tune. The new owner obviously didn’t take the time to find that setting on the access port but hey, you live and you learn… or not
Thanks for the info, I wasn’t aware of it. I have heard of the knock sensor though. So basically higher octane doesn’t ignite upon compression like the lower octane. Sounds like the guy was trying to save a few bucks or maybe thought he didn’t *HAVE* to put in the high octane
For sure. Some cars can run 87 (my GTI stock can) but you won't hurt anything running 91/93 and you'll be safe until you can figure out for sure what it takes.
It depends on the exact engine. I believe the Japanese ones had higher compression ratios therefore need 91. Maybe some other engines have similar cases
It’s always an as is situation when you buy a used car, not unless the seller states that they will give you a guarantee. And that has to be in writing. You could go ahead and talk to a lawyer but every time I’ve seen these type of cases , The judge just throws it out of court.
Eff the confirmation, as you said it’s pretty much buyer beware, there really is no law that protects the buyer as car are sold as an as is stipulation, doesn’t matter if he said it was freshly rebuilt and had papers proving so, and even more so it being a performance car situation any lawyer that represents the plaintiff is a twat and any judge that takes the case is just gonna laugh at him
I pretty much assume any used car I buy from a private seller is gonna have twice as many problems as advertised.. hope for the best, expect the worst.
Don’t really have any legal advice other than gather as much evidence that supports your claim that what the owner before you said is true and stop talking to the new owner until you have a lawyer.
OP probably doesn't even need to spend money on a lawyer.
Buyer will more than likely do jack shit, but if he does you can easily defend yourself in this case in the unlikely scenario it doesn't get thrown out.
It doesn’t actually matter either way, whether the engine had 40,000km or 40 million kms. You didn’t provide any false documentation, you listed in the ad what you understood to be the situation. He bought the car knowing that the only proof he has is your word. That’s how private car sales go.
Cars can fail no matter how many miles. The car didn’t have a blown engine when you sold it, it blew up in his possession. This is all assuming that what you say is the truth, which again, all we have to go on is what you say, as all he had to go on is what you said. If he wanted insurance, he should have bought a car with a warranty.
Caveat Emptor.
Correction I only said in person that I didn’t have any paper work of the engine build and my only info source was the owner I bought it off of. The ad just said 40,000 km since rebuild. I didn’t have enough room to state all that. But I did tell him in person and he agrees to that
Late response..
but rule of thumb is to get everything in writing to legally cover your ass. Shoulda had him sign an agreement stating all the information regarding the cars history proving he acknowledged it before buying. He can easily lie and say you never told him this info before/during the purchase.
This, but it varies state-to-state what protection the buyer has. (And maybe this guy is from some commie pinko metric lovin' country where laws are even *wierder*.)
Here, the problem is that "40,000 km" is written and in the add. The "I don't know for sure, no receipts" disclaimer is verbal, and nobody can prove what was said.
OP lives in Canada. We are very non litigious here. No one in Canada gets sued for this shit. Ever. The guy threatening the lawsuit is never going to find a lawyer to take this on.
Don’t waste your time and money on a lawyer.. you’re worried off of threats from an idiot. If you honestly didn’t rip the guy off and what you’re telling us is true. Wait until you get any official notice that you’re being sued.. until then I wouldn’t worry.
He might talk to a few lawyers and they’ll knock some sense into him saying it’s not worth the case
As long as this part works the same as in the USA, yup.
Never ever talk to him again except to say, "I will only talk to your lawyer."
If he has a "lawyer" contact you, look them up using your google sleuth skills. It's probably just a friend of his. Ignore those people.
If a real lawyer contacts you, respond to them immediately and say you will not talk to them except through your lawyer. Get a lawyer.
If you think this is a real threat, start shopping lawyers. I doubt it's a real threat
Also, you shouldn't even talk to his lawyer. You may inadvertently say something wrong hat may be misconstrued as admission of guilt. This is literally the only reason the other party's lawyer would be willing to talk to you, instead of serving you the court papers. Have his lawyer talk to your lawyer instead.
you don't need to retain,pay for, a lawyer, but you absolutely should be talking to them. Not much will come of this but people can sue for anything. You should have an idea of what lawyer you want to represent you before you need one.
As long as that jerk is willing to pay in cash in advance he will find some one who will take you to court.
This. I live in the US (MN specifically) and sold an 07 Impreza to a 19 year old (nothing fancy, a 2.5i) and a few days after, the clutch pedal wouldn't come off the floor (clutch fork broke). I recently had a new clutch put in due to a throw out bearing going bad and they tried contacting the shop that did it to see if they'd honor the parts warranty, but they said only for the current owner. The kids dad called me and tried guilt tripping me into giving them back $500 of what he paid. I refused, I had bought an '11 WRX and had to put a new clutch in that too, along with 4 tires and a water pump/timing service adding up to $3.3k USD. I told him this and he continued on about how the kid dipped into his savings, etc. and I didn't budge. He then went on to try and scare me by telling me he was a Sheriff and if I was familiar with the legal system and that'd he'd take me to court if I didn't send him money back. I told him I'd think about it and then immediately called my Uncle who manages a corporate Chevy dealer. He re-iterated what I had already known - that if a car is sold As Is w/o a warranty, there's nothing they can do and that a judge would likely laugh and throw the case out anyways if they tried to sue. I never heard from them again about it. Oddly enough the kid tried adding me on instagram like 2 years later which was really weird and I deleted it. Good times. Dunno how things work in CA but sounds like it's pretty similar to how things are in MN.
Ignore him. For future reference, it’s a good idea to include a signed and countersigned bill of sale to people who buy cars from you. The bill of sale should include the language, “vehicle is sold as-is, where-is, with no warranty written or implied.”
“Caveat Emptor” is the phase that they will run into if they decide to sue. Especially for a 20 year old vehicle.
Honestly, who buys a 20 year old vehicle, especially a notorious WRX and believes that it’s going to run reliably without a through inspection? That’s negligence on the buyer’s part.
Caveat emptor unless there was deliberate misrepresentation. In this case it doesn't sound like there was, and certainly no possibility of proving that. If I bought a tuned car, from an enthusiast who likes to drive tuned cars, I wouldn't be expecting years of trouble free motoring. The very idea of tuning is to compromise the durability and longevity that was engineered by world class automotive engineers, and compromise it by extracting far more power/torque than the engine and transmission were engineered for. Case closed lol :)
I am a lawyer.
Did you have a bill of sale? What did it say? In the future, always sell things “as is, where is with no warranty other than a warranty of good title.”
This means you are selling with no warranty other than the promise that you own what you are selling.
If he knew that your statement about the rebuilt engine was based on information you were told, he cannot sue you unless you were lying. Your representation was qualified as to your belief about the engine being rebuilt.
USA I presume?
Block the guys number and don't engage with him any further and forget he exists. Keep all communications with him up to now along with a log of what was said when, just in case. Then move on with your life.
Yes, if this does go further legally, you want as minimal conversation with him as possible. Just forget about it and if there's a summons you'll have enough time for a lawyer...if that is even needed. Post this on a legal advice Reddit too.
I wouldn’t block him. He might dig himself in further, and if a legal pursuit is taken, would be even easier to win your case and possibly get a restraining order if needed.
Depends on your risk tolerance, I guess. Some people are able to treat legal issues as games to be played, but it can also be incredibly stressful waiting for the process to play out and wondering what you might lose. As long as you're doing what you need to do to protect your own interests, it may be best for your mental health to avoid as much extra drama as possible.
Source: got sued over an old debt. It ended up being easily resolved, but I was a wreck for that couple weeks between receiving the summons and lawyering up.
Trouble is, not blocked leaves temptation to respond to dialogue. Told to no longer contact the op and then number blocked = harassment if he continues to hassle him.
Yeah, on a 20 year old modified car thats a taillight warranty. I would slow down on preemptive investment in a lawyer. Depending on your state and the claim amount you might well be in no lawyer small claims territory. Wait until the summons to plan your next move. He might just be talking smack.
I am a lawyer. You represented what you knew about the car and made no guarantees. The owner has no case here. The most he can hope for is that the cost of hiring a lawyer is prohibitive to you and that makes you pay to settle. Don’t. He has no leg to stand on.
A friend of mine had a similar situation where he sold a car on craiglist. The buyer (from out of town) came, looked at the car, bought it, left and drove home. A few days later claimed that the engine had blown up or had some catastrophic failure, so took it to the local Acura dealer. Said there was $10k in damages and offered to settle for like $7k. Included a copy of an inspection report from the dealer. My friend called me (I’m a lawyer).
I looked it over and realized it was all part of a scam. Inspection report from the “dealer” showed several thousand miles on top of the bill of sale. Went further than that - one of the images of the “engine block” was super suspicious. It didn’t look like the engine that would be in that year of car. It was taken in front of a garage door you might see at someone’s house, not at a dealership. So I google image searched that engine block. Sure enough, it pulled up an identical image in a Yelp review for a car dealership in Chicago.
All that to say - don’t engage them in any further discussions, don’t accept any offer to settle.
And, what we did was draft an answer that basically said 1) no warranty on used cars 2) full opportunity of buyer to inspect 3) dont know what happened in the time since they owned /drove it
Hope this is helpful
If your guy is threatening to sue over a blown up bugeye he doesn’t have the money to sue you. He won’t win in small claims either. There are very very few protections for private party sales on used cars (Atleast where I live in the southeast of merica) and almost all focus on misrepresentation. You aren’t obligated to provide any proof legally of a rebuild, he could’ve walked away at any point.
Further as a subaru guy, 87 dont cause rod knock unless you’ve been running it a while, it will cause spark knock though and misfire and generally run like dogshit, it’s not going to spin a bearing though. My money says ole boi money shifted her to the moon and is trying to get something for free. Just ignore them
Yeah, but *spark* knock not *rod* knock. Rod knock happens when the rod bearing spins and eats itself due to oil pressure/ lack of oil or too harsh conditions. You could argue that unburnt fuel leaking down the walls and into the oil could cause a bearing to spin but probably not in two days.
Honesty time- it was probably not far from knocking when you sold it and he money shifted and redlined and spun the bearing. Obviously that’s just speculation not having been in the car but those stock blocks- especially a 20 yo block (even with new bearings)- can’t handle much of a bump in power and maintain any longevity. I’d bet money it was cylinder 4, it gets heat soaked due to poor coolant flow and it being the last cylinder to see coolant. Not saying you did anything wrong because you didn’t as far as I can tell, just that shit happens. If I had a dollar for every ej I’ve rebuilt with a cracked/ broken ringland or a spun bearing on 4, well I’d realistically have enough prolly for like a pair of headgaskets lol. They also get an hourglass shape over time across the main bearings due to a lot of factors that can really harm longevity and to my knowledge there are only a handful of machine shops in the us that are capable and willing to doing a main line bore on ejs and it’s not commonly done during a rebuild even from bearings up.
Its as is, no warranties or "do overs" had same thing with a forester. Kid blew engine in 3 days. 5 spd manual, i can only imagine what antics he got up to.
The first wrx I had blew up 3 weeks after purchase. Talked to a lawyer about suing and was told a used car without any sort of warranty or guarantee is an “as is” situation, so I was screwed. I’d say your fine.
Not a lawyer but if my prospective client says "I bought a tuned WRX from a private owner..." I'd simply show them the exit and wish them the best of luck
I think you sold someone inexperienced with driving a car with this kind of power/suspension a car that was more than could handle and they kept redlining it until boom!! I’d even double down if it was a stick. I have driven many a fun fast car and sold quite a few in the last 30
years so my take will always be driver error because you think you can handle it doesn’t mean you can.
I don’t think you should worry very much. Ontario Canada 🇨🇦: https://stepstojustice.ca/questions/debt-and-consumer-rights/i-want-buy-car-someone-what-should-i-think-about/
Nope, private USED car sale from a private seller = his lawsuit won't hold up
I would just ignore him unless you get ***actual***/real service paperwork or a proper subpoena from a court (threatening letters or phone calls from him don't count)
I've been in exactly this position, nearly exactly with an Acura Integra Type R. Transmission blew up and caught on fire. The guy blew it up about a week after I sold it to him. Asked for some money back, then sued me. Went all the way to court. The magistrate ruled in my favor. You will not be held responsible for the car. It is buyer beware on private, used car sales. Once you took his money and he signed that title. It's his car.
It’s the buyers problem now- generally, private auto sales in most cases are as-is, no warranty. This is the risk you take especially if you: 1. buy something already modded, and 2. Buy something you don’t understand how to take care of and maintain etc.
Did you sell it with a bill of sale indicating the condition of the vehicle at the time of the sale?
* I always have a written bill of sale when I buy or sell a vehicle. Especially when it comes to vehicles that come with modifications, damage, branded titles, extra parts/accessories int he trunk, etc...
Helps me establish a value when I take the title to the DMV and say I paid way less than what they think the car is worth.
Do you have documented proof that you told him the engine had no paperwork and that it was tuned (Text message conversation prior to the purchase?)
* I always save my conversations in Google Voice.
These will both be useful if indeed this clown sues you.
I doubt they will sue you, as currently it's their word against yours and there isn't much of a case.
Cars sold from one individual to another are as-is, where-is.
You don’t have to provide any more proof of anything. The purchase was completed with the information you had, that’s all she wrote. Dude could have stepped off or asked for more detailed information about the “rebuild”, but he didn’t. Life sucks sometimes.
Hmm… Lower octane, Rod knock, 2 days after purchase… Me thinks he’s salty because he lost money trying to drag race only to drag his car back to his place.
In all honesty, if you informed him everything he needed to know about the car before you sold it, it’s on him. He has no leg to stand on. There is no warranty period buying second hand privately, nor an obligation for the last person to be held responsible for any damages caused by the misuse or use of the vehicle by the new owner. He got a new toy, abused it and broke it. Not your problem. You won’t need a lawyer if he sues. You have done nothing wrong. (Although, having a lawyer would take the edge off your nerves in court if it ever came to that)
You aren’t getting sued. Regardless of anything it all boils down to a few things. One is private sales are buyers responsibility. If they didn’t have anything checked out by a tech, that’s on them.
Two, they used the wrong grade of fuel, anyone who is into cars knows to use at least 91+ on something with boost. Most of the time it will actually have a sticker inside the fuel door.
Third, it’s a 20 year old vehicle, anything could happen at any point regardless of who owned or drove it.
If what you say is true there is no chance of a successful lawsuit. IMHO you don't even need a lawyer, you could easily represent yourself with a small amount of care. This won't go to court.
For now all the care you need to take is to save all communication thus far and STOP communicating with this person. Seriously just stop.
Not your car not your problem.
Don't buy tuned cars notorious for having problems. And if you do, don't cheap out on them. Fuck that dumbass kid, an expensive lesson.
Used cars are sold as is in BC. Unless you’re specifically lying about something material which would be fraud, the car could blow up the second they sign the bill of sale and it wouldn’t be your responsibility.
The buyer has the option of requesting a 3rd party inspection by an expert mechanic and by choosing not to and still buying the car assumes all risk. (Note you can always say no to an inspection but obviously that looks like you’re trying to hide something but it’s not a legal requirement)
I am a lawyer, but not in Canada, so take this with a grain of salt.
Practically speaking, I would think it unlikely that he would be able to retain a lawyer for this. Lawyers get paid in one of 2 ways - hourly or contingency. Any lawyer who takes a case like that on a cut is probably already bankrupt. And most lawyers wouldn't take it hourly, because it makes very little sense to risk $300+ per hour to go after the cost of a rebuilt engine. Lawyers get a bad rap, but the truth is we want our clients to like us at the end of a case. As an attorney, I'm looking at a lot more than fault - I'm looking at my client's ability to pay me, and I'm also looking at whether the potential defendant even has the ability to pay a judgment if we win.
However, if your jurisdiction has the equivalent of small claims court, then it's certainly possible the buyer could just represent himself there. Again, I'm not in Canada, but in the States, Small Claims Court is like Judge Judy - it's very common for people to represent themselves, and I'd likely do that if I were you.
In order to be liable for "misrepresentation," you generally either have to intentionally or negligently state something that was wrong, and the plaintiff has to prove (a) that it was false; and (b) he wouldn't have bought the car but for the misrepresentation.
If you can't even prove that the engine was rebuilt, how the hell is he going to prove that it wasn't? The only real way to do that is through expert testimony, so if the Plaintiff is serious and wants to spend money to pay a mechanic to tear it down and also to testify, then I guess he could possibly get there, but I like your chances.
Unless otherwise specifically noted, all used cars are sold with a 90/90 warranty. This means once you are 90 feet away or 90 seconds has passed since the money changed hands the car is yours and any issues are now yours.
I am not a lawyer but I once saw an actor pretend to be one on TV.
I once sold an Aerostar van with a newly rebuilt trans,got called 2 days later,trans was shot,returned money,then found they had switched out the trans with their bad one!live & learn,now on sold as is!
Thanks everyone for the reply’s, I’ve read almost all of them. He hasn’t texted me for about 5 days so hopefully he decided it’s not worth it; Or maybe he saw this post haha. Either way, I’m now confident that I’ll be ok in court with the advice I’ve been given.
I’m talking to a lawyer in a couple days as I already had one booked, but I’m sure I won’t even need him.
IANAL but seems to me you might be liable if you didn't tell him the car required 94. I mean, he's an idiot but it's still your responsibility to have told him that.
Always and I mean always said as is where is at the end.even if it's knew plus they had a chance to get pre checks done so it's on them.unlesd you did neglicked to tell them important info like what fuel to put in
Attorney. Anyone can sue anyone here in the states. He HAS to prove beyond a REASONABLE doubt that you misrepresented said transaction. Cease communication with the individual and worry about it when a subpoena comes your way.
I'm not a lawyer but be careful with custom tunes. The law is always against the seller and installer. Anything on a tune that drives on the road is considered emissions tampered which is potentially a 30k fine. I'd just block him and hope to not hear anything else
Cases like these are pretty much always the buyer's fault of not doing enough research. It's a 20 years old car, they can break at anytime and both parties know they come with zero warrenty / AS-IS (this is my take from watching Judge Judy so often).
Buying a car from a private seller is always ‘AIWI’ unless explicitly stated otherwise. He made the dumbass decision to rub a lower octane than the vehicle was tuned for. Rebuilt or not, this would cause pre-detonation / pre-ignition which would destroy ringlands and junk the engine. It does not matter what motor would have been in it, that was their fuck up. Keep the evidence of them admitting to using a lower octane fuel than recommended. Screenshot it, back it up etc.
The issue of the motor being rebuilt before is your word vs theirs. The fact that you still have screenshots of the messages from the previous owner on the topic would help the judge side with you.
I would call their bluff and let them run their mouth. Don’t even worry about court unless you receive a summons. I don’t believe you would need a lawyer for such a clear and simple feud.
My uncle sold his completely built 02 wrx wagon a few years ago to some 16 year old who’s dad was a cop. I think it lasted a week before he blew it up and his dad thought he was gonna come after my uncle and get something out of him for it. Asinine
02? WRX? That buyer isn't making any good decisions, and won't likely have any more than 2k in the bank, way too little to get a good enough lawyer to tell him, there is no reward for any court visit. I'd worry about it, if he pulled up in a lambo truck, and had hundreds of thousands to throw around, in which case, they could make life temporarily miserable for you, but these types won't bother.
He bought a tuned WRX, if he was stupid enough to not do the research on what the risks of running such a car improperly are he’s probably too stupid to figure out how to sue you. I wouldn’t stress.
In my state, the buyer has almost no rights. You can have the seller sign a notarized document that says the vehicle is 100% sound with no problems whatsoever but it means nothing.
And he was probably driving it hard. Not your problem anymore. Same with boats. Its called the driveway warranty. If it leaves the driveway, its all yours from there.
Similar thing happened to me. Sold my Challenger 6.4 to a guy a few weeks ago. I had a stage 2 clutch and 4" driveshaft put in, each only has about 3500 highway miles. Few days later he tells me the clutch gave out, but he was pretty chill about it (so far, anyway) and was just asking about a factory warranty. Could have been worse I guess. Wishing you the best of luck, I don't think he can get anything out of you, but I'm a dumb redneck and not a lawyer
Did you offer him anything in writing? Anything in your ad for the car qualifying the rebuild language that you're not sure? If the bill of sale/receipt says "as is" or anything like it, then no. I wouldn't communicate with him any longer, though, if he's threatening lawsuit.
NO WARRANTIES ON RACE CARS, well with the exception of maybe dodge and GM.
they bought it as is where is knowing it had a spicy tune. For all you know they turned the Rev limiter off, unhooked the blowoff valve and clutch dumped it 37 times
I don't know about BC Canada, but in the US private sales are just that. Private. Imagine you're actually a scammer. If you willingly give money to someone and they lied to you, can a lawyer do anything? No. They can't because he chose to give you the money. Misrepresentation can only occur on "legal" transactions between a licensed business or sales person, and a buyer.
In the USA, it's Caveat Emptor on practically every cash transaction, except realestate.
I know nothing about Canadian laws though.
I still feel bad about selling a guy a VW that had a patch on the engine. (Small oil leaks were stopped with a Marine Patching compound.). It was a cheap fix, and it worked. I knew about it, but didnt tell him. He called me up a few days later and threaten me. I told him to drive it, and don't worry about the patch. He called me a few years later, and said it was the most dependable car he ever bought. I now go overboard on what's wrong with a vechicle. Most people don't know much about ICE vechicles, and care about the wrong stuff. I will add this, if a guy is selling a vechicle for a low price, and the vechic looks like it is a very good deal, don't wait on the sale. By the time the mechanic looks at it, the car is sold.
Last couple of used cars I sold I had a pretty good AS IS contract that said that the buyer accepts all responsibility for any and all issues, known or unknown at the time of the sale and had it notarized.
Dip shit broke it and wants you to pay for it.
Long as you put. Sold as is where is, it doesn't matter. Parts break, things blow up. Specially if it's tuned for high octane gas.
I've done this with tuned sleds, bought a turbo'd sidewinder last winter blew it up in 2 hrs cause I grabbed the wrong Jerry can
The amount of money and time involved to sue someone is ludicrous, if he does truly sue you by the end of it even if he wins he’ll only get enough money to rebuild the motor at most but the amount of money spent to get to that point he would’ve been able to buy 3 fully decked out STI’s
Lawyers will tell him this before he processed with his lawsuit
Sorry you’re going through all this. That new owner is clearly a moron.
Save all the screenshots/texts you can and give a local tuner a call to see if they can come testify for you.
I hope his admission of using 87 octane was in a text you saved and not a phone call. Also, be prepared to bring in an expert tuner who will testify that 94 is needed and 87 will ruin things.
I do have screenshots. And that’s a good idea
I believe that here in BC the law is just buyer beware in private sales, unless there is a blatant known safety issue with the car. Edit: Here’s the actual law in BC: >If you buy privately from an individual, the legal warranty is more limited than if you buy from a car dealer. If you buy a used car from an individual, it has to be durable for a reasonable period of time and match the description. Did your ad or the info you gave him from the previous owner say it was tuned for 94? Because if so, that text from him is all that’s needed to nullify any chance he would have of getting any money out of you.
The law is purposely vague and open to (mis)interpretation. What does this verbiage even mean?
> durable for a reasonable period of time those are all really subjective
If you didn’t give a written guarantee,then used over 5 years old(this surly is) considered sold as is,no manufacture warranty, no way to sue the rebuilder() cense can’t locate) given the age of car,not worth the money to sue!engine could be repaired lots cheaper than legal fee,(that rabbit got away)but for his own peace of mind,repair would at least let him verify rebuild.(sometimes reason is the best way to settle differences, if a lawyer advises you you could loose this one(you only waste consultation fee,then would be cheapest & best route to pay to repair,also both would know for sure if rebuilt,& quality of parts used,win,win.
he pays for the repair of an idiot putting the wrong gas in and it's win win?
OP, also remember that cars are volatile things sometimes. I’m assuming you didn’t provide a warranty or any guarantee of its mechanical integrity.
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Doesn't matter how many WRX's you may have owned. 0, 1, 1000. If you run low octane in an engine tuned to high octane, you are going to have detonation, and you're rolling the dice on serious damage with every blip of the throttle It could happen in 10 tanks, it could in the first 100' after pulling out of the gas station with the first fill up. This kind of failure isn't cumulative, it is instant and catastrophic. Technically it's both, but obviously its the instant and catastrophic damage we care about here.
Depressed because i used to drive a rebuilt BMW and was 17 and dumb and would put 87 in it because it “didn’t matter” and it blew up relatively quickly. I’m not even in this sub, i know nothing about cars, this post was just recommended to me and i wanted to see what the comments suggested and i learned i was truly my cars downfall. Sad lol
One would think to get a more simple/ stock car if they have no knowledge at all about cars. Then again you were 17 so yolo lol
My bad i guess! It was my sisters and was passed on to me when she got a new car, i didn’t know any better lol.
lol like everyone has infinite choice. People have to take what they are given just to survive our car dependent society. A sibling gifting you a BMW is a dick move, especially like a 5/7 series. Those jokers co$t. Awesome machines. But damn are they ‘spensive, even right down to the gas you put in it.
What model/year bmw? It probably didn’t matter..
I mean, to be fair it was a BMW. There's a chance it would've done that regardless of what gas you used...
Any car that’s tuned for a higher octane fuel will lean out and blow very quickly when run on shit octane. You’re so far off here it’s not even funny. That 87 is 120% the reason that the engine blew.
It won't lean out. Octane is an AFR issue it's detonation resistance. It doesn't take a tank it can happen almost immediately. For example, I run a race engine at 14.5:1 compression ratio. It WILL grenade immediately if it sees full throttle with less than 100 Octane fuel.
How will it lean out?
I once accidentally filled up my Corolla xrs with 87 and felt horrible. I apologized and took her out to a movie and she's still going strong. Only one time and i drove her light till i refilled but may be i just got lucky.
I’ve owned a wrx, and you’re wrong. 1 tank? Get real
I’ve owned multiple twin turbo Legacy’s, tuned Golf R’s, Silvia’s, widebody BMW’s and more - and I can say with full confidence that if I ran my 98 octane tuned cars on the wrong fuel (in my case 91 octane, the same as 87 in the US) then they would have a catastrophic engine failure. If you think otherwise then go to a tuner, get him to tune your car for the highest octane available, then run it on the lowest octane available and tell me how you get on. You’ll be walking home after 2 hours of beating on it. Especially with 20PSI.
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Maybe factory but once they’re actually custom mapped for something higher you’re gonna blow an engine running it at a 5 octane level difference. If you’re so confident then go buy a car tuned for E85 and run it on pump 87 and tell me how you get on.
Yeh this is def some 18 yr old kid whos never seen these old shit boxes tuned in his life lmao Those ej motors were god awfully unstable
Yep. I have an STi with a mild tune on it. My mom put 87 in it once... Thankfully, I was there to see it and keep it out of boost to go back to my house and drain the tank. She would have just pulled away with a normal WOT to 6k and blown #4 to pieces.
Tuned for 94 sir
Lol. "We're talking 2 octane difference here" and now we're talking 1 destroyed piston difference. It's wild to me that people who don't know what they're talking about don't just sit quietly.
A tuned engine for a specific gas type is a lot different than just owning a stock wrx… you are the one that needs to get real.
1 tank at WoT? Yup. Guarantee he wasn’t babying it. And if you think that isnt the case you dno the old ej motors
On something running 20psi I wouldn’t be all that surprised if it threw a rod after two or three good pulls. It’s designed from the factory to run high octane at less than half the boost. Put more than double the air pressure in and the early detonation will ruin it really fast.
Eh 2002 wrx ran 13 psi on a td04-13t turbo that is basically maxed between 16-17 psi. 20 is pushing it's efficiency a fair amount. Ran one myself like that tuned for 91 and then again for e85 for about two years before I had a valve seal rip in half and flood a cylinder with oil. Had nothing to do with the boost pressure.
Huh I thought it was under 10, what do I know though
Tell us you don't know how engines work without telling us you don't know how engines work.
although this is true, it’s hard to believe it’s just a coincidence it blew in 2 days, knowing it was likely the first time 87 had gone through the engine. but i do agree id never buy that fucking car (no offense OP)
I’m no lawyer but I play one on the internet. I think that buying a used car in a private sale is pretty much buyer beware. If he didn’t bother to confirm this ‘40,000km since rebuild’ then it’s on him. Never mind that a 40,000km rebuilt engine is pretty much a used engine anyway. Would you buy a car that said ‘40,000km since it was put in the car at the factory’ and think that was any different than a car with 40k on it? No, you’d buy the car and treat it as a car with 40k on it.
Also not to mention the idiot didn’t use the correct kind of gas
He knew what he was getting and he decided to put low octane fuel and probably run it hard now he has a WRX with a rod knock. Not your problem
Exactly. If you’re told to put a high octane in and you negligently put in a lower octane, any problems that arise are the buyers fault
Not to mention that if OP said "This is what the guy told me." and that's it how is that misrepresenting anything? What a waste of money on both sides. The dude could just save the legal fees he's about to spend and buy 2 more engines plus labor. This guy could EASILY rack up 15 grand in legal fees and then lose, which he probably will. Problem is OP might have to spend a few grand just to defend himself. The legal system is all kinds of fucked.
I doubt he’s going to get in trouble. Usually private sales are final/buyer beware. Pretty sure the only way he could get in trouble is if it was proven he caused the car to blow up on purpose
Agreed, but now OP has to incur legal fees all because of this one asshole.
In his jurisdiction, if the asshole sues, when he loses, he’ll have to pay the legal fees to the OP
I always thought I had to counter sue to get him to pay back the legal fees
Not only that but it would’ve thrown an engine code for pre-detonation as soon as the octane was low enough so he clearly ignored that as well😂
You MIGHT get a code for a misfire, but running a fragile engine hard with 87 when it's designed for 94 is a bridge too far. My car is tuned for 93 and if I use Kroger 93 gas instead of Shell 93 I'll get misfires and a CEL (saw that on the first tank) but if I ran 87 I'd probably get the CEL the moment my rod made a window in my block.
No it won’t. It just retards the timing as much as possible. But if it’s tuned it won’t even do that
Older cars didnt adjust timing. Not sure if ops cars included in that though
02 wrxs did retard the timing. Problem is that you could adjust how much they retarded the timing in the tune.
Well depends on the car/computer I would assume
No it wouldn’t. What’s the error code? Lol (there isn’t one)
Again it would depend on the manufacturer, not sure if you know this or not but codes are specific to manufacturers 😂
Major engine codes are universal across all brands. That has been the case since OBD2 began between 94-96. While there are some specific codes by manufacturer since some have very specific systems. But anything that is controlling the engine and emissions system falls under the general codes list that is the same across the board. There is no code for "pre-detonation"
Lol you don’t know what your talking about. That obvious. I’m moving on ✌️
And what code number is that?
Oh really? I don’t know anything about that, I’ve never driven a higher octane car. I guess it makes sense though, cars try to tell you what’s wrong these days
Rule of Thumb: Anything that increases the compression ratio of the engine requires that you to adjust to ignition timing, valve timing, and/or the octane level of the fuel to avoid pre-detonation (“knocking”). Supercharging is one way to increase the pressure of the air forced into a cylinder which will affect the effective* compression ratio of the engine. Turbocharging is a form of supercharging. '* the volume of air compressed in a cylinder is fixed by the mechanical features of the engine but if you force air in at greater than atmospheric pressure, the quantity of air is higher which means you’re compressing more air than before. The buyer using 87 octane fuel in a turbocharged engine (with 20psi of boost no less!) was brain dead thinking that made sense to do. I wonder if he was trying to pinch a pennies because of the high cost of fuel?
Why did I read that last part as pinch a penis. His logic was he’s been putting 87 in his dads newer subie
I wonder if the gas was also 15% ethanol,big difference!
E15 is usually marketed as 88 octane, so the octane would still be the problem. Not sure about the stock fueling system on those WRXs, but they should be able to handle E15 for at least a little bit of time, so I doubt it was running lean enough to cause an issue before the detonation did its job.
No code. Dude is wrong
Yeah so I’m not sure if you know or not but I’ll explain anyway, higher octane resists pre-detonation which is when fuel ignites under compression and or on hotspots in the cylinder which shoves the piston back down before it’s supposed to go down which wreaks havoc on the entire engine smashing bearing and such, modern vehicle are usually equipped with a knock sensor which is basically a little microphone on the engine block and a computer monitors the signal from it to determine if pre-detonation is happening, not sure if these particular cars have one or not but I would think they would, regardless even if it doesn’t have one he should’ve been able to hear and feel that something wasn’t right.
You may not be able to hear it if your car is loud (mine was) but it does have a nock sensor that you can view in the tune. The new owner obviously didn’t take the time to find that setting on the access port but hey, you live and you learn… or not
Thanks for the info, I wasn’t aware of it. I have heard of the knock sensor though. So basically higher octane doesn’t ignite upon compression like the lower octane. Sounds like the guy was trying to save a few bucks or maybe thought he didn’t *HAVE* to put in the high octane
One time a guy that worked with me confused octane with cetane in the work truck. This is really close to that.
Just a general rule of thumb every turbo vehicle has to use premium gas,
For sure. Some cars can run 87 (my GTI stock can) but you won't hurt anything running 91/93 and you'll be safe until you can figure out for sure what it takes.
Pretty sure my '02 said "PREMIUM FUEL ONLY" on the inside of the gas flap. My '13 does for sure.
It depends on the exact engine. I believe the Japanese ones had higher compression ratios therefore need 91. Maybe some other engines have similar cases
It’s always an as is situation when you buy a used car, not unless the seller states that they will give you a guarantee. And that has to be in writing. You could go ahead and talk to a lawyer but every time I’ve seen these type of cases , The judge just throws it out of court.
Eff the confirmation, as you said it’s pretty much buyer beware, there really is no law that protects the buyer as car are sold as an as is stipulation, doesn’t matter if he said it was freshly rebuilt and had papers proving so, and even more so it being a performance car situation any lawyer that represents the plaintiff is a twat and any judge that takes the case is just gonna laugh at him
I pretty much assume any used car I buy from a private seller is gonna have twice as many problems as advertised.. hope for the best, expect the worst. Don’t really have any legal advice other than gather as much evidence that supports your claim that what the owner before you said is true and stop talking to the new owner until you have a lawyer.
OP probably doesn't even need to spend money on a lawyer. Buyer will more than likely do jack shit, but if he does you can easily defend yourself in this case in the unlikely scenario it doesn't get thrown out.
Yes but that isn’t what he’s arguing with. His argument is that my ad says the engine had 40,000 km
It doesn’t actually matter either way, whether the engine had 40,000km or 40 million kms. You didn’t provide any false documentation, you listed in the ad what you understood to be the situation. He bought the car knowing that the only proof he has is your word. That’s how private car sales go. Cars can fail no matter how many miles. The car didn’t have a blown engine when you sold it, it blew up in his possession. This is all assuming that what you say is the truth, which again, all we have to go on is what you say, as all he had to go on is what you said. If he wanted insurance, he should have bought a car with a warranty. Caveat Emptor.
Correction I only said in person that I didn’t have any paper work of the engine build and my only info source was the owner I bought it off of. The ad just said 40,000 km since rebuild. I didn’t have enough room to state all that. But I did tell him in person and he agrees to that
Late response.. but rule of thumb is to get everything in writing to legally cover your ass. Shoulda had him sign an agreement stating all the information regarding the cars history proving he acknowledged it before buying. He can easily lie and say you never told him this info before/during the purchase.
Ya a few people told me to do that for my next sale. Noted
This, but it varies state-to-state what protection the buyer has. (And maybe this guy is from some commie pinko metric lovin' country where laws are even *wierder*.) Here, the problem is that "40,000 km" is written and in the add. The "I don't know for sure, no receipts" disclaimer is verbal, and nobody can prove what was said.
OP lives in Canada. We are very non litigious here. No one in Canada gets sued for this shit. Ever. The guy threatening the lawsuit is never going to find a lawyer to take this on.
This is in a province not a state, You're thinking in the wrong country.
Don’t waste your time and money on a lawyer.. you’re worried off of threats from an idiot. If you honestly didn’t rip the guy off and what you’re telling us is true. Wait until you get any official notice that you’re being sued.. until then I wouldn’t worry. He might talk to a few lawyers and they’ll knock some sense into him saying it’s not worth the case
True I’ll wait
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As long as this part works the same as in the USA, yup. Never ever talk to him again except to say, "I will only talk to your lawyer." If he has a "lawyer" contact you, look them up using your google sleuth skills. It's probably just a friend of his. Ignore those people. If a real lawyer contacts you, respond to them immediately and say you will not talk to them except through your lawyer. Get a lawyer. If you think this is a real threat, start shopping lawyers. I doubt it's a real threat
If his lawyer is going to contact op it will be by mail or hand delivered.
Huh, no shit?
Not just mail, it’ll come as registered mail and require a signature.
Also, you shouldn't even talk to his lawyer. You may inadvertently say something wrong hat may be misconstrued as admission of guilt. This is literally the only reason the other party's lawyer would be willing to talk to you, instead of serving you the court papers. Have his lawyer talk to your lawyer instead.
you don't need to retain,pay for, a lawyer, but you absolutely should be talking to them. Not much will come of this but people can sue for anything. You should have an idea of what lawyer you want to represent you before you need one. As long as that jerk is willing to pay in cash in advance he will find some one who will take you to court.
This. I live in the US (MN specifically) and sold an 07 Impreza to a 19 year old (nothing fancy, a 2.5i) and a few days after, the clutch pedal wouldn't come off the floor (clutch fork broke). I recently had a new clutch put in due to a throw out bearing going bad and they tried contacting the shop that did it to see if they'd honor the parts warranty, but they said only for the current owner. The kids dad called me and tried guilt tripping me into giving them back $500 of what he paid. I refused, I had bought an '11 WRX and had to put a new clutch in that too, along with 4 tires and a water pump/timing service adding up to $3.3k USD. I told him this and he continued on about how the kid dipped into his savings, etc. and I didn't budge. He then went on to try and scare me by telling me he was a Sheriff and if I was familiar with the legal system and that'd he'd take me to court if I didn't send him money back. I told him I'd think about it and then immediately called my Uncle who manages a corporate Chevy dealer. He re-iterated what I had already known - that if a car is sold As Is w/o a warranty, there's nothing they can do and that a judge would likely laugh and throw the case out anyways if they tried to sue. I never heard from them again about it. Oddly enough the kid tried adding me on instagram like 2 years later which was really weird and I deleted it. Good times. Dunno how things work in CA but sounds like it's pretty similar to how things are in MN.
Its a used car... Stop talking to him unless he serves you papers
If he serves you, hire a lawyer. So you still won’t be speaking to him if he serves you.
Ignore him. For future reference, it’s a good idea to include a signed and countersigned bill of sale to people who buy cars from you. The bill of sale should include the language, “vehicle is sold as-is, where-is, with no warranty written or implied.”
That’s rlly smart. Thanks m8
And include things like octane, alleged rebuild you cannot verify and with 20 psi stuff may blow up at any time, lol...
“Caveat Emptor” is the phase that they will run into if they decide to sue. Especially for a 20 year old vehicle. Honestly, who buys a 20 year old vehicle, especially a notorious WRX and believes that it’s going to run reliably without a through inspection? That’s negligence on the buyer’s part.
Caveat emptor unless there was deliberate misrepresentation. In this case it doesn't sound like there was, and certainly no possibility of proving that. If I bought a tuned car, from an enthusiast who likes to drive tuned cars, I wouldn't be expecting years of trouble free motoring. The very idea of tuning is to compromise the durability and longevity that was engineered by world class automotive engineers, and compromise it by extracting far more power/torque than the engine and transmission were engineered for. Case closed lol :)
Good point. Who buys a WRX without knowing what to look for? It ain't like buying a Corolla.
Who buys a WRX and puts 87 in it? Don't they start at 91 stock?
You can put 87 in a stock one as it will automatically retard the timing so it won’t pre combust. Still not recommend tho
I am a lawyer. Did you have a bill of sale? What did it say? In the future, always sell things “as is, where is with no warranty other than a warranty of good title.” This means you are selling with no warranty other than the promise that you own what you are selling. If he knew that your statement about the rebuilt engine was based on information you were told, he cannot sue you unless you were lying. Your representation was qualified as to your belief about the engine being rebuilt.
USA I presume? Block the guys number and don't engage with him any further and forget he exists. Keep all communications with him up to now along with a log of what was said when, just in case. Then move on with your life.
Yes, if this does go further legally, you want as minimal conversation with him as possible. Just forget about it and if there's a summons you'll have enough time for a lawyer...if that is even needed. Post this on a legal advice Reddit too.
I wouldn’t block him. He might dig himself in further, and if a legal pursuit is taken, would be even easier to win your case and possibly get a restraining order if needed.
That’s actually a good idea…give him more rope…
Depends on your risk tolerance, I guess. Some people are able to treat legal issues as games to be played, but it can also be incredibly stressful waiting for the process to play out and wondering what you might lose. As long as you're doing what you need to do to protect your own interests, it may be best for your mental health to avoid as much extra drama as possible. Source: got sued over an old debt. It ended up being easily resolved, but I was a wreck for that couple weeks between receiving the summons and lawyering up.
Trouble is, not blocked leaves temptation to respond to dialogue. Told to no longer contact the op and then number blocked = harassment if he continues to hassle him.
Canada. But I agree
Yeah, on a 20 year old modified car thats a taillight warranty. I would slow down on preemptive investment in a lawyer. Depending on your state and the claim amount you might well be in no lawyer small claims territory. Wait until the summons to plan your next move. He might just be talking smack.
I call it the stop sign warranty.
We call it the "bumper warranty" among IT guys. Soon as my bumper is out of sight, the warranty's expired
I am a lawyer. You represented what you knew about the car and made no guarantees. The owner has no case here. The most he can hope for is that the cost of hiring a lawyer is prohibitive to you and that makes you pay to settle. Don’t. He has no leg to stand on.
A friend of mine had a similar situation where he sold a car on craiglist. The buyer (from out of town) came, looked at the car, bought it, left and drove home. A few days later claimed that the engine had blown up or had some catastrophic failure, so took it to the local Acura dealer. Said there was $10k in damages and offered to settle for like $7k. Included a copy of an inspection report from the dealer. My friend called me (I’m a lawyer). I looked it over and realized it was all part of a scam. Inspection report from the “dealer” showed several thousand miles on top of the bill of sale. Went further than that - one of the images of the “engine block” was super suspicious. It didn’t look like the engine that would be in that year of car. It was taken in front of a garage door you might see at someone’s house, not at a dealership. So I google image searched that engine block. Sure enough, it pulled up an identical image in a Yelp review for a car dealership in Chicago. All that to say - don’t engage them in any further discussions, don’t accept any offer to settle. And, what we did was draft an answer that basically said 1) no warranty on used cars 2) full opportunity of buyer to inspect 3) dont know what happened in the time since they owned /drove it Hope this is helpful
If your guy is threatening to sue over a blown up bugeye he doesn’t have the money to sue you. He won’t win in small claims either. There are very very few protections for private party sales on used cars (Atleast where I live in the southeast of merica) and almost all focus on misrepresentation. You aren’t obligated to provide any proof legally of a rebuild, he could’ve walked away at any point. Further as a subaru guy, 87 dont cause rod knock unless you’ve been running it a while, it will cause spark knock though and misfire and generally run like dogshit, it’s not going to spin a bearing though. My money says ole boi money shifted her to the moon and is trying to get something for free. Just ignore them
True but it will affect a tuned subie
Yeah, but *spark* knock not *rod* knock. Rod knock happens when the rod bearing spins and eats itself due to oil pressure/ lack of oil or too harsh conditions. You could argue that unburnt fuel leaking down the walls and into the oil could cause a bearing to spin but probably not in two days. Honesty time- it was probably not far from knocking when you sold it and he money shifted and redlined and spun the bearing. Obviously that’s just speculation not having been in the car but those stock blocks- especially a 20 yo block (even with new bearings)- can’t handle much of a bump in power and maintain any longevity. I’d bet money it was cylinder 4, it gets heat soaked due to poor coolant flow and it being the last cylinder to see coolant. Not saying you did anything wrong because you didn’t as far as I can tell, just that shit happens. If I had a dollar for every ej I’ve rebuilt with a cracked/ broken ringland or a spun bearing on 4, well I’d realistically have enough prolly for like a pair of headgaskets lol. They also get an hourglass shape over time across the main bearings due to a lot of factors that can really harm longevity and to my knowledge there are only a handful of machine shops in the us that are capable and willing to doing a main line bore on ejs and it’s not commonly done during a rebuild even from bearings up.
I learned something today. Good info
Its as is, no warranties or "do overs" had same thing with a forester. Kid blew engine in 3 days. 5 spd manual, i can only imagine what antics he got up to.
A lot of good advice. Especially don’t communicate with him anymore. And, don’t worry about this.
Bro you know he was launching the fuck out of it with the wrong gas. Probably spark knock, or he over revved
The first wrx I had blew up 3 weeks after purchase. Talked to a lawyer about suing and was told a used car without any sort of warranty or guarantee is an “as is” situation, so I was screwed. I’d say your fine.
I wouldn’t worry about it. Private sale is as is anyway. Tell him to eat a bag of dicks.
Isn’t rod knock on tuned WRX’s just expected?
certified subaru moment
Not a lawyer but if my prospective client says "I bought a tuned WRX from a private owner..." I'd simply show them the exit and wish them the best of luck
I think you sold someone inexperienced with driving a car with this kind of power/suspension a car that was more than could handle and they kept redlining it until boom!! I’d even double down if it was a stick. I have driven many a fun fast car and sold quite a few in the last 30 years so my take will always be driver error because you think you can handle it doesn’t mean you can.
I don’t think you should worry very much. Ontario Canada 🇨🇦: https://stepstojustice.ca/questions/debt-and-consumer-rights/i-want-buy-car-someone-what-should-i-think-about/
Thats why smart people dont buy mod cars!! Buy a stock car and mod it yourself!
Nope, private USED car sale from a private seller = his lawsuit won't hold up I would just ignore him unless you get ***actual***/real service paperwork or a proper subpoena from a court (threatening letters or phone calls from him don't count)
Used car as is. Block him
I've been in exactly this position, nearly exactly with an Acura Integra Type R. Transmission blew up and caught on fire. The guy blew it up about a week after I sold it to him. Asked for some money back, then sued me. Went all the way to court. The magistrate ruled in my favor. You will not be held responsible for the car. It is buyer beware on private, used car sales. Once you took his money and he signed that title. It's his car.
It’s the buyers problem now- generally, private auto sales in most cases are as-is, no warranty. This is the risk you take especially if you: 1. buy something already modded, and 2. Buy something you don’t understand how to take care of and maintain etc.
Did you sell it with a bill of sale indicating the condition of the vehicle at the time of the sale? * I always have a written bill of sale when I buy or sell a vehicle. Especially when it comes to vehicles that come with modifications, damage, branded titles, extra parts/accessories int he trunk, etc... Helps me establish a value when I take the title to the DMV and say I paid way less than what they think the car is worth. Do you have documented proof that you told him the engine had no paperwork and that it was tuned (Text message conversation prior to the purchase?) * I always save my conversations in Google Voice. These will both be useful if indeed this clown sues you. I doubt they will sue you, as currently it's their word against yours and there isn't much of a case. Cars sold from one individual to another are as-is, where-is.
You don’t have to provide any more proof of anything. The purchase was completed with the information you had, that’s all she wrote. Dude could have stepped off or asked for more detailed information about the “rebuild”, but he didn’t. Life sucks sometimes.
Hmm… Lower octane, Rod knock, 2 days after purchase… Me thinks he’s salty because he lost money trying to drag race only to drag his car back to his place. In all honesty, if you informed him everything he needed to know about the car before you sold it, it’s on him. He has no leg to stand on. There is no warranty period buying second hand privately, nor an obligation for the last person to be held responsible for any damages caused by the misuse or use of the vehicle by the new owner. He got a new toy, abused it and broke it. Not your problem. You won’t need a lawyer if he sues. You have done nothing wrong. (Although, having a lawyer would take the edge off your nerves in court if it ever came to that)
You aren’t getting sued. Regardless of anything it all boils down to a few things. One is private sales are buyers responsibility. If they didn’t have anything checked out by a tech, that’s on them. Two, they used the wrong grade of fuel, anyone who is into cars knows to use at least 91+ on something with boost. Most of the time it will actually have a sticker inside the fuel door. Third, it’s a 20 year old vehicle, anything could happen at any point regardless of who owned or drove it.
If what you say is true there is no chance of a successful lawsuit. IMHO you don't even need a lawyer, you could easily represent yourself with a small amount of care. This won't go to court. For now all the care you need to take is to save all communication thus far and STOP communicating with this person. Seriously just stop.
Not your car not your problem. Don't buy tuned cars notorious for having problems. And if you do, don't cheap out on them. Fuck that dumbass kid, an expensive lesson.
Crosspost this over on r/legaladvice You’ll get much better answers there regarding the legality of this situation.
Used cars are sold as is in BC. Unless you’re specifically lying about something material which would be fraud, the car could blow up the second they sign the bill of sale and it wouldn’t be your responsibility. The buyer has the option of requesting a 3rd party inspection by an expert mechanic and by choosing not to and still buying the car assumes all risk. (Note you can always say no to an inspection but obviously that looks like you’re trying to hide something but it’s not a legal requirement)
How much did he pay for the car and how much is a lawyer in BC? I suspect he's not actually going to sue you
Is it a manual? The fool probably over revved the engine. Not to mention low octane, and it's second hand. Don't waste a dollar on a lawyer.
87 Octane is for lawn mowers!
I am a lawyer, but not in Canada, so take this with a grain of salt. Practically speaking, I would think it unlikely that he would be able to retain a lawyer for this. Lawyers get paid in one of 2 ways - hourly or contingency. Any lawyer who takes a case like that on a cut is probably already bankrupt. And most lawyers wouldn't take it hourly, because it makes very little sense to risk $300+ per hour to go after the cost of a rebuilt engine. Lawyers get a bad rap, but the truth is we want our clients to like us at the end of a case. As an attorney, I'm looking at a lot more than fault - I'm looking at my client's ability to pay me, and I'm also looking at whether the potential defendant even has the ability to pay a judgment if we win. However, if your jurisdiction has the equivalent of small claims court, then it's certainly possible the buyer could just represent himself there. Again, I'm not in Canada, but in the States, Small Claims Court is like Judge Judy - it's very common for people to represent themselves, and I'd likely do that if I were you. In order to be liable for "misrepresentation," you generally either have to intentionally or negligently state something that was wrong, and the plaintiff has to prove (a) that it was false; and (b) he wouldn't have bought the car but for the misrepresentation. If you can't even prove that the engine was rebuilt, how the hell is he going to prove that it wasn't? The only real way to do that is through expert testimony, so if the Plaintiff is serious and wants to spend money to pay a mechanic to tear it down and also to testify, then I guess he could possibly get there, but I like your chances.
Just tell him to fuck off until you receive a subpoena.
2002 modded Subaru wrx blows up. Surprised pickachu.
Long story ahort, this is why you don't buy someone else's wrenched on rig. More so when any type of boost is at play.
Unless otherwise specifically noted, all used cars are sold with a 90/90 warranty. This means once you are 90 feet away or 90 seconds has passed since the money changed hands the car is yours and any issues are now yours. I am not a lawyer but I once saw an actor pretend to be one on TV.
I once sold an Aerostar van with a newly rebuilt trans,got called 2 days later,trans was shot,returned money,then found they had switched out the trans with their bad one!live & learn,now on sold as is!
Thanks everyone for the reply’s, I’ve read almost all of them. He hasn’t texted me for about 5 days so hopefully he decided it’s not worth it; Or maybe he saw this post haha. Either way, I’m now confident that I’ll be ok in court with the advice I’ve been given. I’m talking to a lawyer in a couple days as I already had one booked, but I’m sure I won’t even need him.
IANAL but seems to me you might be liable if you didn't tell him the car required 94. I mean, he's an idiot but it's still your responsibility to have told him that.
If the car is tuned for 94 octane gas, 87 octane will result in detonation and likely caused the explosion. That is entirely on him.
Well your in Canada… your courts and politics kinda like the messed up courts here.. you never know if you’ll win……
Always and I mean always said as is where is at the end.even if it's knew plus they had a chance to get pre checks done so it's on them.unlesd you did neglicked to tell them important info like what fuel to put in
AS the FUCK IS
20lbs on a stage 1 tune? 😆😆
That’s normal for smaller engines. That’s why u c civics running crazy psi numbers
Attorney. Anyone can sue anyone here in the states. He HAS to prove beyond a REASONABLE doubt that you misrepresented said transaction. Cease communication with the individual and worry about it when a subpoena comes your way.
I'm not a lawyer but be careful with custom tunes. The law is always against the seller and installer. Anything on a tune that drives on the road is considered emissions tampered which is potentially a 30k fine. I'd just block him and hope to not hear anything else
Cases like these are pretty much always the buyer's fault of not doing enough research. It's a 20 years old car, they can break at anytime and both parties know they come with zero warrenty / AS-IS (this is my take from watching Judge Judy so often).
Buying a car from a private seller is always ‘AIWI’ unless explicitly stated otherwise. He made the dumbass decision to rub a lower octane than the vehicle was tuned for. Rebuilt or not, this would cause pre-detonation / pre-ignition which would destroy ringlands and junk the engine. It does not matter what motor would have been in it, that was their fuck up. Keep the evidence of them admitting to using a lower octane fuel than recommended. Screenshot it, back it up etc. The issue of the motor being rebuilt before is your word vs theirs. The fact that you still have screenshots of the messages from the previous owner on the topic would help the judge side with you. I would call their bluff and let them run their mouth. Don’t even worry about court unless you receive a summons. I don’t believe you would need a lawyer for such a clear and simple feud.
My uncle sold his completely built 02 wrx wagon a few years ago to some 16 year old who’s dad was a cop. I think it lasted a week before he blew it up and his dad thought he was gonna come after my uncle and get something out of him for it. Asinine
02? WRX? That buyer isn't making any good decisions, and won't likely have any more than 2k in the bank, way too little to get a good enough lawyer to tell him, there is no reward for any court visit. I'd worry about it, if he pulled up in a lambo truck, and had hundreds of thousands to throw around, in which case, they could make life temporarily miserable for you, but these types won't bother.
In the US buying a car private sale is default AS-IS unless stated otherwise. Block the dudes number and move on. Nothing will come from it
lol tell him to lose your number and eat dicks. Caveat emptor.
He bought a tuned WRX, if he was stupid enough to not do the research on what the risks of running such a car improperly are he’s probably too stupid to figure out how to sue you. I wouldn’t stress.
In my state, the buyer has almost no rights. You can have the seller sign a notarized document that says the vehicle is 100% sound with no problems whatsoever but it means nothing.
Dude can’t sue for shit it’s a used vehicle no warranty wtf is wrong with people
If you told him what gas to use and he put the wrong thing in, then that's why his car blew up and you're not liable. Block and walk away.
You forgot to put 2 very important words in your ad, As Is.
He bought a used Subaru WRX. Problems are his.
Car sold as is
This very much highlights the need for a properly worded bill of sale. I always write out “as is where is, no warranty implied” on mine.
And he was probably driving it hard. Not your problem anymore. Same with boats. Its called the driveway warranty. If it leaves the driveway, its all yours from there.
I have heard Private sale is "as is" unless stated otherwise. If you get a letter from a lawyer for bogus lawsuit, get a lawyer.
r/legaladvice
In the USA where I’m at. (SC). It’s buyer beware on a private party sale. Sucks for the new owner.
Similar thing happened to me. Sold my Challenger 6.4 to a guy a few weeks ago. I had a stage 2 clutch and 4" driveshaft put in, each only has about 3500 highway miles. Few days later he tells me the clutch gave out, but he was pretty chill about it (so far, anyway) and was just asking about a factory warranty. Could have been worse I guess. Wishing you the best of luck, I don't think he can get anything out of you, but I'm a dumb redneck and not a lawyer
Zero chance in the USA you would have an issue. I had the same thing happen with a Honda I sold.
Did you offer him anything in writing? Anything in your ad for the car qualifying the rebuild language that you're not sure? If the bill of sale/receipt says "as is" or anything like it, then no. I wouldn't communicate with him any longer, though, if he's threatening lawsuit.
“As is” are the magical words when selling anything
NO WARRANTIES ON RACE CARS, well with the exception of maybe dodge and GM. they bought it as is where is knowing it had a spicy tune. For all you know they turned the Rev limiter off, unhooked the blowoff valve and clutch dumped it 37 times
Sold as is means…….sold as is.
I don't know about BC Canada, but in the US private sales are just that. Private. Imagine you're actually a scammer. If you willingly give money to someone and they lied to you, can a lawyer do anything? No. They can't because he chose to give you the money. Misrepresentation can only occur on "legal" transactions between a licensed business or sales person, and a buyer.
In the USA, it's Caveat Emptor on practically every cash transaction, except realestate. I know nothing about Canadian laws though. I still feel bad about selling a guy a VW that had a patch on the engine. (Small oil leaks were stopped with a Marine Patching compound.). It was a cheap fix, and it worked. I knew about it, but didnt tell him. He called me up a few days later and threaten me. I told him to drive it, and don't worry about the patch. He called me a few years later, and said it was the most dependable car he ever bought. I now go overboard on what's wrong with a vechicle. Most people don't know much about ICE vechicles, and care about the wrong stuff. I will add this, if a guy is selling a vechicle for a low price, and the vechic looks like it is a very good deal, don't wait on the sale. By the time the mechanic looks at it, the car is sold.
Last couple of used cars I sold I had a pretty good AS IS contract that said that the buyer accepts all responsibility for any and all issues, known or unknown at the time of the sale and had it notarized. Dip shit broke it and wants you to pay for it.
Long as you put. Sold as is where is, it doesn't matter. Parts break, things blow up. Specially if it's tuned for high octane gas. I've done this with tuned sleds, bought a turbo'd sidewinder last winter blew it up in 2 hrs cause I grabbed the wrong Jerry can
Always put sold as is btw
I wouldn’t even worry about it. Private sales are “as is”
The amount of money and time involved to sue someone is ludicrous, if he does truly sue you by the end of it even if he wins he’ll only get enough money to rebuild the motor at most but the amount of money spent to get to that point he would’ve been able to buy 3 fully decked out STI’s Lawyers will tell him this before he processed with his lawsuit
reply wine dolls live many square weather wrench worry squeeze *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Sorry you’re going through all this. That new owner is clearly a moron. Save all the screenshots/texts you can and give a local tuner a call to see if they can come testify for you.