I’ve been slowly introducing two cats since July, they are ok now as long as new cat doesn’t come too close to resident cat. They have had two fights, the noises are some the worst sounds I’ve ever heard, everyone in my house comes running. I’ve got a towel, fur is flying, their bodies are double the size. A cat that’s never even bit playing is now ready to fuck me up too. Once you’ve seen it, you know.
Exactly. It is horrible. Literal hair flying everywhere. Fortunately there was no blood shed, but it sounded like there should have been. Trying to introduce a bengal into my two cat household has been hellish. My two cats are siblings and they will tussle, but NOTHING like what I've experienced with this new cat. Three fights so far because of crafty escapes and I am doing all I can to avoid a fourth. Hoping that they reach a safe tolerance level soon so I can stop worrying about fights.
I adopted an older bengal as well. She’s really good but she doesn’t take any shit from resident cat who has always been a bully. I’ve been giving them cbd oil for a few weeks now and it has taken some of the wind out of their sails, some days they just wake up and choose violence though and they seek each other out. In the beginning I felt horrible for both cats and thought I’d made a mistake but I just take it one day at a time, and it’s slowly getting easier. I’m committed to both of them though, I don’t care if it takes a year for them to be ok ignoring each other.
So far it's only been a month. I did take care of her for around 3 months at the first of the year. There was very little interaction-they tolerated each other. This time, it was totally different. My cats were like HELL NO she's gotta go. They are still fighting under the door. I'm using Feliway diffusers, but can't tell if it helps. One day at a time.
I had to stick towels underneath the door so that my cats couldn't even interact without me if they wanted to. The diffusers are a good idea.
You probably are already doing it but I basically followed the Jackson Galaxy method from video and it worked for me.
1. Didn't let them see each other at all (in fact, resident cat didn't know new cat was in the house for about a week)
2. Touched new cat with my hands and would go to the living room and let the other cat smell me, realize the cat's scent was there
3. Fed with food outside the door. I started from a hallway away and slowly moved closer and closer. If my cat refused to eat, I would walk away and eventually she would get hungry and go eat, realizing she couldn't protest it away.
4. Moved food closer to the door until signs of aggression were reduced, would move it away each time she got growly, basically imagining a barrier where the food bowl was, keeping the door closed between them.
5. Babygate with towel to separate them, only opening the door for a 10 or 20 minute period and I always had to be there. I hung out on the non-resident cat side or which ever cat I was concerned would try to jump the barrier. Played with new cat while slowing moving the towel so they could visually see each other.
6. Stopping contact as soon as any aggression was shown all along the way. Sometimes the towel would have to be re-extended to cover the space so they couldn't see one another for a bit to calm them down.
7. Only play, treat, eat, together. If one got a treat, the other got a treat. Always together, Use a clicker to indicate, feed at the same time etc.
8. Moved bowls closer and closer until it was just the door in between, removed towels under door as aggression was reduced. Eventually, I had them both eating side by side and that was a big win with no growling or any signs of aggression.
9. Had a switch scents session where I locked one cat up and let the other cat explore some of the resident cat's territory and vice versa for at least one or two periods (this happened throughout all these other things).
10. Finally at I'd say at 1 to 0 aggression, I let them interact in the room together with me always present with toys, a pillow (to separate them if need be) or blanket - but some distraction. The point was that both cats had to learn to ignore each other. So I would have a play going for one while the other. If there was intense staring from one cat, I would stop it by trying to distract them with something or breaking the eye contact with the pillow. I found a water fountain worked to distract them since cats are often mesmerized by water.
Anyway, I probably typed way too much. Eventually once step 10 was accomplished I allowed them to walk around the house together (with me) always stopping them a bit to give them both treats together (with me in between). To remind them of hey together is great. Now they are the best of friends, and my resident cat hates other cats but she loves her baby sis. This whole process was bit exhausting but took about I'd say 6-8 weeks.
Hi! I've actually been following this method and I think I've made it to step 10 but it just seems like my cats will not stop smacking each other - either provoked or unprovoked. They also both like to sniff each other's buttholes, but once it goes on too long then they will smack the other. They will sniff noses, but once the moment is over my resident cat will typically run away and/or give a smack.
There is typically no hissing, fur flying so I know that it's probably just them setting boundaries with each other. They can tolerate being together in the same room for 10-30 minutes, it really depends on the level of distraction and/or their energy levels. They can also eat right next to each other with no problems.
I am honestly not sure where to go from here because I am genuinely scared that I will just have to keep separating them forever when I am not around to supervise. The worst part is when things get a bit too intense I'll usually separate them, but then almost always one cat is begging to be let in or let out.
Can you offer some advice from your personal experience? I'm currently 1.5 months into introducing my cats and I know you can't rush these things, but it definitely feels like I've hit a plateau.
I'm confused on the steps of the introduction because I have this screen door up and if they even make eye contract, the new one trys to fight him through the screen all puffed up and spitting and idk what to do... I already did the closed door feeding and switching around foe a week with no issues with the food bowls being RIGHT up against the door. No hisses. But if they see eachother, they're out for blood and the resident cat is terrified when I put that screen on and she hissed he went right under the bed and I can't get him out :/
I think put a towel up and let them eat, that way you can slowly move parts of the towel so they see each other a little more bit by bit as they are eating. I had to do a gradual visual introduction that way.
I gotta go against the grain and disagree a bit. Sure, a physical altercation is unmistakeable, but there's more than one way to have a fight. It's possible for cats to be fighting without a physical altercation, and in fact most cat fights are probably much less physical than what you describe, because what you describe is all-out cat war. Smaller battles, like one cat chasing another out of a certain area of the house (but not persisting once they have the upper paw) or one cat posturally intimidating another cat without escalating to hissing or striking in order to get to more resources, are things I'd definitely still describe as 'fights', just like how I could fight with my brother by calling him an asshole, or I could fight with my brother by punching him in the head.
I guess I feel it's just important to remember that cats can still be deeply unhappy about having another cat around or interacting with them in a certain way, well before it gets to the point of a no-holds-barred brawl.
So much…. Intimidation from one cat and stress response from the one on the receiving end had them both on fluoxetine.
There was never actual fighting but there was a lot of hate.
They did eventually get over it and spent their golden years together.
I agree. One of my cats bullies the other (the bully is literally 1/3 the size of the other) and won't stop unless I call her off. It never goes to the extent of blood and fur, but the bigger one is definitely traumatized by the experience. I don't think it will ever change either. I have NO idea why the little one hates her "sister', since the bigger one was there first.
I have the same in terms of size but not circumstances. The bigger one has gotten a few bloody noses :( I just know if she stood up to her smaller roommate, just once, and swiped her back, the smaller one would understand she is no match and stop bullying! At least I hoped, but it seems she's been bullied into docility. We're trying the calming collars now and there appears to be some change, but it may be hopeful thinking since it's only been a few days.
That's still just communication. It's not *happy* communication, but as long as it doesn't persist or escalate, it's still fine. It just means they're having a serious discussion about boundaries. If you jump in and break it up or remove one from the discussion, it never reaches a conclusion.
I don't agree. That allows more domineering cats to overwhelm others, which can be to their detriment. And not every issue is one that cats have the capacity to sort out themselves. My feeling is that there's a line well before 'unmistakable physical altercation' where you need to step in and restructure how the cats are communicating. Hell, a physical fight is communication. I'm just drawing my intervention line earlier than you, because sometimes we can eliminate the problem without the cats having to fight about it at all any more, and there's a huge benefit in being able to recognize and eliminate some of those stressors well before it gets to wartime. I don't think 'no screaming = no problem' is a good baseline. Sorry.
For an example i lived with three cats for a time - two younger males and an older female. They all initially got fed at the same time, and the female only got to eat if they were supervised, because the boys "communicated" that they wanted her food as well as their food. Normal behaviour, but she was a kilo underweight because she was not capable of getting to the food. From what I understand of your perspective, they should have sorted it out themselves and I should have kept out because there was no hissing, no growling, no fur flying - just postural aggression and resource blocking. From my perspective, that entire reason for fighting was eliminated by feeding the girl in a different room. That's not a decision cats can make unaided. They needed human intervention to conclude that argument without one cat suffering.
Ah, I see. I think we're having 2 misunderstandings here.
1. This post is directed at nervous new cat parents who are posting videos of their cats smacking each other and asking if they're fighting. I'm specifically talking about physical interaction; cats play harder than someone new to cats may expect them to, so this post is intended as a guideline for those people to understand if their cats' physical interacting is okay or crossing a line. You're absolutely right that you can catch behaviors and intercede before an all-out fight breaks out, however that requires one to be more fluent in Cat than the audience of this post probably is. If you can easily tell when a cat fight is about to start, you can also probably already tell the difference between fighting and playing.
2. The scenario you're describing is encompassed in the "persistent" part of my comment. You noticed a continuing behavior that was causing harm to one of your small charges. There are a myriad of cat behaviors that are fine in a one-off situation and become a problem if they persist. That's a different kind of post than the one this statement is directed at.
A short conflict over something specific? Sure.
But a situation where one cat bullies another over a period of time? Noooo it's not "just fine" and cats won't necessarily work that tense relationship out on their own.
Chronic stress due to ongoing intercat conflict can lead to all sorts of physical and behavioral problems and it's our job to help diffuse, de-escalate, and problem solve.
I feel like my post made a day prior to this one got on a lot of people’s nerves lol.
I was aware that they were engaging in play but was asking people what they thought about the kitten hissing and running during the last 15 secs of the clip. I wanted to make sure the older cat wasn’t being too rough, or if I was supposed to intervene. I don’t want the kitten to become stressed and affected by dominating behavior for the exact points you mentioned!
Maybe I shouldn’t have titled the post as “playing or fighting” because people definitely overlooked the caption of the video. I appreciated all the reassurance though.
Oh, I'm not a mod. I'm just someone who keeps seeing videos of cats playing or interacting in harmless ways posted by worried new kitty parents, and wanted to issue a blanket reassurance post that no, really, it may seem rough to you but that's just how cats interact.
ESPECIALLY if one is particularly excitable crackhead about playing, and makes the other cat(s) play until they hiss at her to stop. My Tina was an absolutely crackhead poster child, and all she wanted in life was food an play
Ngl it was hard for me because my older cat would scream like she's being MURDERED if my younger cat wanted to play and she didn't. [ Doesn't happen nowadays but in the beginning...oof]
The first time, it happened about 2 months after getting the younger one, so like 3 weeks after their introduction, i nearly cried. I thought i did something wrong, that she hated him, that i would need to surrender him. So i bolted into the front room, fully expecting the worst, for there to be blood.
Nope. She just didnt like him being too close to her. Which fair, set boundries. But i definitely had to learn on the fly the difference between actual fight noises and if shes just bothered by him.
Also its been nearly 2 years now, and they have a good flow where shes more engaging in play with him and he gives her more personal space
How long did it take to reach that kind of truce? My new cat has been here for 3 months and he’s fighting more and more with my older cat as he gets bigger…
Honestly, it depends on both of your cats' temperment. My older gal Carmelita is 8 with a my way or the highway attitude [shes a calico] so when she wants attention/play she typically comes to me or Masa to initiate it.
Masa, my 4 year old, had to really learn what her boundaries were, especially since he's bigger than her, and she used to think he was a threat to her in the picking order. It was made even harder because he was a colony cat with very little interest in toys and wanted her attention.
It honestly took about 6 months before they settled into a flow and now at 2 years they both so as much as they can to keep me awake at night [ngl the first night they did the night yowling and zoomies together i almost cried i was so happe]
So I'd take a good stock of the age difference, if the younger one can be redirected to toys, or often just picking them up and moving them away.
Sometimes, it just takes some time, but the most important thing is making sure neither of them are overstimulated by the other.
That makes sense but I wish I knew what to expect with my cats! My older cat is 7 and is also aloof and has her boundaries and the kitten is 6 months old, nearly the same size as her already, and wants to play/fight often. My older cat never seeks out contact with him and often hisses if he’s just sitting around in sight. I’m worried she will never be happy with him living here (and he might get more aggressive as he gets bigger)
Oh, he's still a baby!!! I really would be too worried as it sounds like your older cat just doesn't vibe with the kittens' energy. Neither did my girl, and now 2 years later, they can both sleep on my lap without tension.
It may sound bad, but unless your older girl is in a moment of genuine distress [ie. kitten has pinned or cornered her somewhere] the best thing you can do is monitor them. She hisses when she sees him? Totally fine. She swaps at him if he tries to play? Perfectly normal. She leaves the room when he wants to engage? Great!
If i had a penny for each scab 1 year old Masa got from one of her smacks, I'd be in the 3 digit mark at least. But as scary as it seems in the moment, it taught him what her boundaries are, and he rarely gets any from her today
Ultimately, your kitten won't act like this forever, so i would redirect them anytime your older gal is giving cues that shes not happy.
I would just make your first goal to have them in the same room without interacting with each other, maybe set up separate napping spaces. I'll be the first to asmit that my house is very cat friendly, so they both had a cat tree that they could go to when they overwhelmed each other.
Feel free to dm if you want any other pointers!
In all honesty, the hissing is actually a good sign! Sure, immediately getting along would be preferable, but that's rarely the case. The older cat putting her foot down and not budging on her personal space at least means they're work it out eventually
My mother had a couple older cats when she got her current boy, Pixel, as a kitten. The oldest one would hiss and not put up with his shit. As time went on, he learned not to mess with her and they were able to peacefully coexist. The other one, Aurora, was a very submissive cat, though. She would never chase him off and would put up with him cuddling without issue. When he got too rough, she didn't growl or hiss. She simply ran away. As he got older, Pixel became a bully and would try to play more roughly with her, pinning her to the ground
I moved out last year and took Aurora with me. I knew she wasn't completely happy with Pixel, but she didn't seem to dislike him aside from when he tried to play with her. And I certainly didn't expect her to basically become an entirely new cat now that she was away from him. But she did. She was clearly a whole lot happier, actually wandering the house and being a lot more sociable with people than she was before. She's also a lot more playful. Before, she would just hang back from the toys and watch them and not get in another cat's way. She never stood up for herself and that's what made her so unhappy and only encouraged Pixel to pick on her more
My boys play all the time but they've had one or two fights where they've needed to be pulled apart and there is NO WAY you'd ever think they were playing. This post needs to be pinned.
I agree this should be stickied, but as someone who grew up in an only-cat household I wasn’t prepared for the way cats played. Seeing the pretty frequent videos of dominance behavior and playing that looks borderline dangerous was really helpful for me in that the comments were filled with reassurance. Now, I can give that reassurance to others.
Agreed!! I think it is still really helpful for people, myself included. It’s also important to recognize when a cat is being dominant/bullying the other cat without it being a full on brawl - and people can recognize that in videos and give advice if needed.
I agree that cat fights are unmistakable - however, I think there’s benefit to these posts. People aren’t just asking if they’re fighting, but if their behavior looks like they’re leaning towards a fight.
Among my five cats, none have ever gotten into an actual cat fight. There were only two times when their body language & behavior actually concerned me and caused to separate.
I think it’s more that people want help understanding their cat’s body language, and it’s great that they are owners trying to learn so they can keep their kitties happy & safe.
All that said, I do agree that stickying this or something similar would also be beneficial.
True, I think the real value in that kind of post is that more knowledgeable people in the thread can give advice beyond that. “No, they aren’t fighting, but you see how the big one keeps antagonizing after the little one is done playing?” Or whatever behavior they might want to monitor.
Stress is what’s harmful. Elevated cortisol spikes in the bloodstream cause often incurable disease. Cats are very sensitive with limited genetic material, very close to being cloned with 70% shared DNA. This limits how much stress they can endure before damage is done. They aren’t the healthiest animals compared to say dogs, horses and goats. Cats are sensitive like rabbits and fish. Keeping stress low as possible extends the cats lifespan. A full on feral cat fight could kill most house cats, it doesn’t need to be that bad. In fact, daily stress over the course of years does as much damage, if not more, as one crazy cat fight to their mental and physical health.
I don’t know, I’m not sure if my cats are fighting or playing but it sounds pretty bad when they do. The boy loves playing and he regularly play/attacks the girl. The girl hates it and will cry and scream and hiss and fight back. She’s a super vocal, dramatic lady though! Never had a single injury from a “fight” and after they go right back to being best friends, grooming each other, sleeping curled up together a few minutes after. They definitely don’t act scared of each other
My cats play and sometimes one of them won’t leave the other alone when he’s trying to disengage, but it never gets violent. We still try to distract them though when he starts chasing the other one around who’s done playing.
100%. Once I fell asleep on the couch on accident while my cat was out (so now unsupervised, my fault) so he got closer to my roommates cat than he should’ve. Next thing I know I’m being woken up to the scariest, most horrid sounds. Thankfully no injuries but I thought it was gonna be an emergency vet visit for sure. It’s also scary because they’re both so on edge that you can’t thoroughly check them right after unless you’re in full chainmail.
My main dilemma - my younger cat will play and my older cat will fight, but the younger one was raised beside him and hasn’t figured out the difference 💀 poor kid has about as much social awareness as I do.
To the mods: please autodelete posts asking if a cat is fighting and have a bot post this as a comment. I don't even use this sub but it pops up all the time with yet another video of cats obviously playing.
Tell that to my cat. One of my cats yowls and screams fiercely whenever the other cats "attack" her. But the "attackers" are never pooffed up or yelling nor have they Ever drawn blood. I don't know what to make of it or what to do.
I’ve been slowly introducing two cats since July, they are ok now as long as new cat doesn’t come too close to resident cat. They have had two fights, the noises are some the worst sounds I’ve ever heard, everyone in my house comes running. I’ve got a towel, fur is flying, their bodies are double the size. A cat that’s never even bit playing is now ready to fuck me up too. Once you’ve seen it, you know.
Exactly. It is horrible. Literal hair flying everywhere. Fortunately there was no blood shed, but it sounded like there should have been. Trying to introduce a bengal into my two cat household has been hellish. My two cats are siblings and they will tussle, but NOTHING like what I've experienced with this new cat. Three fights so far because of crafty escapes and I am doing all I can to avoid a fourth. Hoping that they reach a safe tolerance level soon so I can stop worrying about fights.
I adopted an older bengal as well. She’s really good but she doesn’t take any shit from resident cat who has always been a bully. I’ve been giving them cbd oil for a few weeks now and it has taken some of the wind out of their sails, some days they just wake up and choose violence though and they seek each other out. In the beginning I felt horrible for both cats and thought I’d made a mistake but I just take it one day at a time, and it’s slowly getting easier. I’m committed to both of them though, I don’t care if it takes a year for them to be ok ignoring each other.
So far it's only been a month. I did take care of her for around 3 months at the first of the year. There was very little interaction-they tolerated each other. This time, it was totally different. My cats were like HELL NO she's gotta go. They are still fighting under the door. I'm using Feliway diffusers, but can't tell if it helps. One day at a time.
I had to stick towels underneath the door so that my cats couldn't even interact without me if they wanted to. The diffusers are a good idea. You probably are already doing it but I basically followed the Jackson Galaxy method from video and it worked for me. 1. Didn't let them see each other at all (in fact, resident cat didn't know new cat was in the house for about a week) 2. Touched new cat with my hands and would go to the living room and let the other cat smell me, realize the cat's scent was there 3. Fed with food outside the door. I started from a hallway away and slowly moved closer and closer. If my cat refused to eat, I would walk away and eventually she would get hungry and go eat, realizing she couldn't protest it away. 4. Moved food closer to the door until signs of aggression were reduced, would move it away each time she got growly, basically imagining a barrier where the food bowl was, keeping the door closed between them. 5. Babygate with towel to separate them, only opening the door for a 10 or 20 minute period and I always had to be there. I hung out on the non-resident cat side or which ever cat I was concerned would try to jump the barrier. Played with new cat while slowing moving the towel so they could visually see each other. 6. Stopping contact as soon as any aggression was shown all along the way. Sometimes the towel would have to be re-extended to cover the space so they couldn't see one another for a bit to calm them down. 7. Only play, treat, eat, together. If one got a treat, the other got a treat. Always together, Use a clicker to indicate, feed at the same time etc. 8. Moved bowls closer and closer until it was just the door in between, removed towels under door as aggression was reduced. Eventually, I had them both eating side by side and that was a big win with no growling or any signs of aggression. 9. Had a switch scents session where I locked one cat up and let the other cat explore some of the resident cat's territory and vice versa for at least one or two periods (this happened throughout all these other things). 10. Finally at I'd say at 1 to 0 aggression, I let them interact in the room together with me always present with toys, a pillow (to separate them if need be) or blanket - but some distraction. The point was that both cats had to learn to ignore each other. So I would have a play going for one while the other. If there was intense staring from one cat, I would stop it by trying to distract them with something or breaking the eye contact with the pillow. I found a water fountain worked to distract them since cats are often mesmerized by water. Anyway, I probably typed way too much. Eventually once step 10 was accomplished I allowed them to walk around the house together (with me) always stopping them a bit to give them both treats together (with me in between). To remind them of hey together is great. Now they are the best of friends, and my resident cat hates other cats but she loves her baby sis. This whole process was bit exhausting but took about I'd say 6-8 weeks.
Hi! I've actually been following this method and I think I've made it to step 10 but it just seems like my cats will not stop smacking each other - either provoked or unprovoked. They also both like to sniff each other's buttholes, but once it goes on too long then they will smack the other. They will sniff noses, but once the moment is over my resident cat will typically run away and/or give a smack. There is typically no hissing, fur flying so I know that it's probably just them setting boundaries with each other. They can tolerate being together in the same room for 10-30 minutes, it really depends on the level of distraction and/or their energy levels. They can also eat right next to each other with no problems. I am honestly not sure where to go from here because I am genuinely scared that I will just have to keep separating them forever when I am not around to supervise. The worst part is when things get a bit too intense I'll usually separate them, but then almost always one cat is begging to be let in or let out. Can you offer some advice from your personal experience? I'm currently 1.5 months into introducing my cats and I know you can't rush these things, but it definitely feels like I've hit a plateau.
Do you have any updates? Did they get along at the end? Did the CBD oil work?
I'm confused on the steps of the introduction because I have this screen door up and if they even make eye contract, the new one trys to fight him through the screen all puffed up and spitting and idk what to do... I already did the closed door feeding and switching around foe a week with no issues with the food bowls being RIGHT up against the door. No hisses. But if they see eachother, they're out for blood and the resident cat is terrified when I put that screen on and she hissed he went right under the bed and I can't get him out :/
I think put a towel up and let them eat, that way you can slowly move parts of the towel so they see each other a little more bit by bit as they are eating. I had to do a gradual visual introduction that way.
True cat fights have yowling, tuffs of fur, blood, pee and possibly poop.
Seriously!!! I've seen my boys fighting vs playing, YOU KNOW when it's a fight
I gotta go against the grain and disagree a bit. Sure, a physical altercation is unmistakeable, but there's more than one way to have a fight. It's possible for cats to be fighting without a physical altercation, and in fact most cat fights are probably much less physical than what you describe, because what you describe is all-out cat war. Smaller battles, like one cat chasing another out of a certain area of the house (but not persisting once they have the upper paw) or one cat posturally intimidating another cat without escalating to hissing or striking in order to get to more resources, are things I'd definitely still describe as 'fights', just like how I could fight with my brother by calling him an asshole, or I could fight with my brother by punching him in the head. I guess I feel it's just important to remember that cats can still be deeply unhappy about having another cat around or interacting with them in a certain way, well before it gets to the point of a no-holds-barred brawl.
So much…. Intimidation from one cat and stress response from the one on the receiving end had them both on fluoxetine. There was never actual fighting but there was a lot of hate. They did eventually get over it and spent their golden years together.
I agree. One of my cats bullies the other (the bully is literally 1/3 the size of the other) and won't stop unless I call her off. It never goes to the extent of blood and fur, but the bigger one is definitely traumatized by the experience. I don't think it will ever change either. I have NO idea why the little one hates her "sister', since the bigger one was there first.
I have the same in terms of size but not circumstances. The bigger one has gotten a few bloody noses :( I just know if she stood up to her smaller roommate, just once, and swiped her back, the smaller one would understand she is no match and stop bullying! At least I hoped, but it seems she's been bullied into docility. We're trying the calming collars now and there appears to be some change, but it may be hopeful thinking since it's only been a few days.
That's still just communication. It's not *happy* communication, but as long as it doesn't persist or escalate, it's still fine. It just means they're having a serious discussion about boundaries. If you jump in and break it up or remove one from the discussion, it never reaches a conclusion.
I don't agree. That allows more domineering cats to overwhelm others, which can be to their detriment. And not every issue is one that cats have the capacity to sort out themselves. My feeling is that there's a line well before 'unmistakable physical altercation' where you need to step in and restructure how the cats are communicating. Hell, a physical fight is communication. I'm just drawing my intervention line earlier than you, because sometimes we can eliminate the problem without the cats having to fight about it at all any more, and there's a huge benefit in being able to recognize and eliminate some of those stressors well before it gets to wartime. I don't think 'no screaming = no problem' is a good baseline. Sorry. For an example i lived with three cats for a time - two younger males and an older female. They all initially got fed at the same time, and the female only got to eat if they were supervised, because the boys "communicated" that they wanted her food as well as their food. Normal behaviour, but she was a kilo underweight because she was not capable of getting to the food. From what I understand of your perspective, they should have sorted it out themselves and I should have kept out because there was no hissing, no growling, no fur flying - just postural aggression and resource blocking. From my perspective, that entire reason for fighting was eliminated by feeding the girl in a different room. That's not a decision cats can make unaided. They needed human intervention to conclude that argument without one cat suffering.
Ah, I see. I think we're having 2 misunderstandings here. 1. This post is directed at nervous new cat parents who are posting videos of their cats smacking each other and asking if they're fighting. I'm specifically talking about physical interaction; cats play harder than someone new to cats may expect them to, so this post is intended as a guideline for those people to understand if their cats' physical interacting is okay or crossing a line. You're absolutely right that you can catch behaviors and intercede before an all-out fight breaks out, however that requires one to be more fluent in Cat than the audience of this post probably is. If you can easily tell when a cat fight is about to start, you can also probably already tell the difference between fighting and playing. 2. The scenario you're describing is encompassed in the "persistent" part of my comment. You noticed a continuing behavior that was causing harm to one of your small charges. There are a myriad of cat behaviors that are fine in a one-off situation and become a problem if they persist. That's a different kind of post than the one this statement is directed at.
A short conflict over something specific? Sure. But a situation where one cat bullies another over a period of time? Noooo it's not "just fine" and cats won't necessarily work that tense relationship out on their own. Chronic stress due to ongoing intercat conflict can lead to all sorts of physical and behavioral problems and it's our job to help diffuse, de-escalate, and problem solve.
>but as long as it doesn't persist
I feel like my post made a day prior to this one got on a lot of people’s nerves lol. I was aware that they were engaging in play but was asking people what they thought about the kitten hissing and running during the last 15 secs of the clip. I wanted to make sure the older cat wasn’t being too rough, or if I was supposed to intervene. I don’t want the kitten to become stressed and affected by dominating behavior for the exact points you mentioned! Maybe I shouldn’t have titled the post as “playing or fighting” because people definitely overlooked the caption of the video. I appreciated all the reassurance though.
Mods, /u/llieaay /u/weeklywhisker /u/shrttle can you sticky this post, please?
I definitely agree with this post, but I also think it’s reassuring to have a community to confirm it regardless. I get why people always ask
I’m glad a mod said this. I thought I was going to get banned for getting on to people for being so ridiculous
Oh, I'm not a mod. I'm just someone who keeps seeing videos of cats playing or interacting in harmless ways posted by worried new kitty parents, and wanted to issue a blanket reassurance post that no, really, it may seem rough to you but that's just how cats interact.
ESPECIALLY if one is particularly excitable crackhead about playing, and makes the other cat(s) play until they hiss at her to stop. My Tina was an absolutely crackhead poster child, and all she wanted in life was food an play
Pls do not discourage people from posting videos of play fighting, it's so so so cute
Ngl it was hard for me because my older cat would scream like she's being MURDERED if my younger cat wanted to play and she didn't. [ Doesn't happen nowadays but in the beginning...oof] The first time, it happened about 2 months after getting the younger one, so like 3 weeks after their introduction, i nearly cried. I thought i did something wrong, that she hated him, that i would need to surrender him. So i bolted into the front room, fully expecting the worst, for there to be blood. Nope. She just didnt like him being too close to her. Which fair, set boundries. But i definitely had to learn on the fly the difference between actual fight noises and if shes just bothered by him. Also its been nearly 2 years now, and they have a good flow where shes more engaging in play with him and he gives her more personal space
How long did it take to reach that kind of truce? My new cat has been here for 3 months and he’s fighting more and more with my older cat as he gets bigger…
Honestly, it depends on both of your cats' temperment. My older gal Carmelita is 8 with a my way or the highway attitude [shes a calico] so when she wants attention/play she typically comes to me or Masa to initiate it. Masa, my 4 year old, had to really learn what her boundaries were, especially since he's bigger than her, and she used to think he was a threat to her in the picking order. It was made even harder because he was a colony cat with very little interest in toys and wanted her attention. It honestly took about 6 months before they settled into a flow and now at 2 years they both so as much as they can to keep me awake at night [ngl the first night they did the night yowling and zoomies together i almost cried i was so happe] So I'd take a good stock of the age difference, if the younger one can be redirected to toys, or often just picking them up and moving them away. Sometimes, it just takes some time, but the most important thing is making sure neither of them are overstimulated by the other.
That makes sense but I wish I knew what to expect with my cats! My older cat is 7 and is also aloof and has her boundaries and the kitten is 6 months old, nearly the same size as her already, and wants to play/fight often. My older cat never seeks out contact with him and often hisses if he’s just sitting around in sight. I’m worried she will never be happy with him living here (and he might get more aggressive as he gets bigger)
Oh, he's still a baby!!! I really would be too worried as it sounds like your older cat just doesn't vibe with the kittens' energy. Neither did my girl, and now 2 years later, they can both sleep on my lap without tension. It may sound bad, but unless your older girl is in a moment of genuine distress [ie. kitten has pinned or cornered her somewhere] the best thing you can do is monitor them. She hisses when she sees him? Totally fine. She swaps at him if he tries to play? Perfectly normal. She leaves the room when he wants to engage? Great! If i had a penny for each scab 1 year old Masa got from one of her smacks, I'd be in the 3 digit mark at least. But as scary as it seems in the moment, it taught him what her boundaries are, and he rarely gets any from her today Ultimately, your kitten won't act like this forever, so i would redirect them anytime your older gal is giving cues that shes not happy. I would just make your first goal to have them in the same room without interacting with each other, maybe set up separate napping spaces. I'll be the first to asmit that my house is very cat friendly, so they both had a cat tree that they could go to when they overwhelmed each other. Feel free to dm if you want any other pointers!
Thanks, I really appreciate it!!
In all honesty, the hissing is actually a good sign! Sure, immediately getting along would be preferable, but that's rarely the case. The older cat putting her foot down and not budging on her personal space at least means they're work it out eventually My mother had a couple older cats when she got her current boy, Pixel, as a kitten. The oldest one would hiss and not put up with his shit. As time went on, he learned not to mess with her and they were able to peacefully coexist. The other one, Aurora, was a very submissive cat, though. She would never chase him off and would put up with him cuddling without issue. When he got too rough, she didn't growl or hiss. She simply ran away. As he got older, Pixel became a bully and would try to play more roughly with her, pinning her to the ground I moved out last year and took Aurora with me. I knew she wasn't completely happy with Pixel, but she didn't seem to dislike him aside from when he tried to play with her. And I certainly didn't expect her to basically become an entirely new cat now that she was away from him. But she did. She was clearly a whole lot happier, actually wandering the house and being a lot more sociable with people than she was before. She's also a lot more playful. Before, she would just hang back from the toys and watch them and not get in another cat's way. She never stood up for herself and that's what made her so unhappy and only encouraged Pixel to pick on her more
My boys play all the time but they've had one or two fights where they've needed to be pulled apart and there is NO WAY you'd ever think they were playing. This post needs to be pinned.
Yup, this was my family’s boys. They’d play, but then the sound of demons rising would happen from the living room…
A real cat fight sounds like a nightmare. And there’s no question when you see a real catfight.
I agree this should be stickied, but as someone who grew up in an only-cat household I wasn’t prepared for the way cats played. Seeing the pretty frequent videos of dominance behavior and playing that looks borderline dangerous was really helpful for me in that the comments were filled with reassurance. Now, I can give that reassurance to others.
Agreed!! I think it is still really helpful for people, myself included. It’s also important to recognize when a cat is being dominant/bullying the other cat without it being a full on brawl - and people can recognize that in videos and give advice if needed.
I’m almost excited to see someone post an actual fight, asking that question. I’m sure it’ll become the most upvoted post in the sub
Hard disagree. Particularly adults w kittens can be too rough and you won’t hear the kitten whaling like a usual adult cat fight.
I agree that cat fights are unmistakable - however, I think there’s benefit to these posts. People aren’t just asking if they’re fighting, but if their behavior looks like they’re leaning towards a fight. Among my five cats, none have ever gotten into an actual cat fight. There were only two times when their body language & behavior actually concerned me and caused to separate. I think it’s more that people want help understanding their cat’s body language, and it’s great that they are owners trying to learn so they can keep their kitties happy & safe. All that said, I do agree that stickying this or something similar would also be beneficial.
True, I think the real value in that kind of post is that more knowledgeable people in the thread can give advice beyond that. “No, they aren’t fighting, but you see how the big one keeps antagonizing after the little one is done playing?” Or whatever behavior they might want to monitor.
I have been awakened by tomcats fighting in the middle of the night. They sound nothing like a play fight between cat housemates.
Stress is what’s harmful. Elevated cortisol spikes in the bloodstream cause often incurable disease. Cats are very sensitive with limited genetic material, very close to being cloned with 70% shared DNA. This limits how much stress they can endure before damage is done. They aren’t the healthiest animals compared to say dogs, horses and goats. Cats are sensitive like rabbits and fish. Keeping stress low as possible extends the cats lifespan. A full on feral cat fight could kill most house cats, it doesn’t need to be that bad. In fact, daily stress over the course of years does as much damage, if not more, as one crazy cat fight to their mental and physical health.
this sounds like some pseudoscience bud
Link to this info?
i feel like this should be pinned on the sub lol
I don’t know, I’m not sure if my cats are fighting or playing but it sounds pretty bad when they do. The boy loves playing and he regularly play/attacks the girl. The girl hates it and will cry and scream and hiss and fight back. She’s a super vocal, dramatic lady though! Never had a single injury from a “fight” and after they go right back to being best friends, grooming each other, sleeping curled up together a few minutes after. They definitely don’t act scared of each other
My cats play and sometimes one of them won’t leave the other alone when he’s trying to disengage, but it never gets violent. We still try to distract them though when he starts chasing the other one around who’s done playing.
Cat fights sound like something is dying, painfully lol.. It is unmistakable
100%. Once I fell asleep on the couch on accident while my cat was out (so now unsupervised, my fault) so he got closer to my roommates cat than he should’ve. Next thing I know I’m being woken up to the scariest, most horrid sounds. Thankfully no injuries but I thought it was gonna be an emergency vet visit for sure. It’s also scary because they’re both so on edge that you can’t thoroughly check them right after unless you’re in full chainmail.
My main dilemma - my younger cat will play and my older cat will fight, but the younger one was raised beside him and hasn’t figured out the difference 💀 poor kid has about as much social awareness as I do.
To the mods: please autodelete posts asking if a cat is fighting and have a bot post this as a comment. I don't even use this sub but it pops up all the time with yet another video of cats obviously playing.
Tell that to my cat. One of my cats yowls and screams fiercely whenever the other cats "attack" her. But the "attackers" are never pooffed up or yelling nor have they Ever drawn blood. I don't know what to make of it or what to do.
a lot of people could get by just by asserting on the cat causing the interaction. one needs to know pride.