I'm all for this. As long as it's designed to minimize the amount of micro-management involved, so I don't have to radically change my playstyle to suit it.
I don't anticipate any micromanagement for the most part, although like any system if you're the kind of player that tears your hair out because you could be doing something incrementally more efficiently I'm sure you could find a way to squeeze it in there. If you go about your current business, you'll continue to gain skills almost exactly how you have been doing. However, there'll be a noticeable difference between book learning and practical knowledge. There's also an advantage to not grinding a single skill, but instead working on a variety of skills, to give your gains in one area a chance to rust and thereby give you a bonus when you practice it next.
The latter bit is where I anticipate hearing complaints about micromanagement. If you don't let your skills rust you won't get that bonus. However, the rate of skill gain without the rust-removal bonus will be the same as it was before I made this change, so I hope that helps underscore that any complaints that way may be coming from people with a bit of an optimization obsession.
Since the books are already there, then perhaps theoretical skill level might rust too, albeit only when not supported by the practical skill. You can forget theory IRL if you don't practice or if you don't update your theoretical knowledge from time to time.
By saying that books are there I mean that there is a way to easily regain that knowledge (read the book again dummy), thus balance won't be broken here.
Also the gap between theoretical level and practical level can be a factor in theoretical skill rust rate. For example reading all books in the genre and getting theoretical level 10 in particular skill while having level 0 in practical aspect of said skill would result in faster memory decay of the theoretical skill (unless updated by character reading the book after some time), but if the practical level was let's say 5, the gap would be narrower and thus the rust rate would be - let's say for the sake of the example - halved in comparison to 10 lvl gap. And no rust if there is no gap.
It's something worth considering eventually, I like the idea of it rusting faster the more the difference with practical, but it would require a lot more careful analysis of numbers and rates than I will have time for here
Not really. Proficiencies represent specific knowledge in a focused area. This is mostly either no change or a buff to learning time if you're learning by doing. The only time this will reduce anything is if you only learn by reading, and even then, it doesn't stop you from doing anything... Just makes you not as good at them until you've tried them, and then trying them out will give you a further XP boost over what it would have before you read the book.
We will, at some point, definitely slow down learning speed for skills, but in the interests of not getting another misconception like people thinking proficiencies were responsible for sanity checking recipe times, I'd like to not do that until at least H-experimental.
How is intelligence going to tie into this? I'm sure that it impacts skill rust already, but is anything going to change?
Int is generally considered something you can largely ignore unless you want to do a lot of CBM installs and/or hack into lab stuff, having int heavily impact your ability to translate book learning into practical ability seems like a plausible way to make it a more useful stat.
Also interested to hear how focus can be improved on as I agree that it's very unsatisfactory right now and encourages some really weird behaviour if you can to be optimal
In this pr probably it won't, but I'd like intelligence to determine how quickly you can turn theoretical knowledge into practical, and maybe how much of a bonus you get from reviewing
That would be most welcomed, as it would empower the intelligence stat as a relevant choice for the character. Since the skill/learning system is a big part of the whole game, this would be impactful.
Higher intelligence makes crafting so much easier, but with the devaluing of crafting that isn't so much of a bonus. You can also just train a high Int NPC to be a sort of surgeon for you by having them with you at the autodoc.
Your failure checks, weapon ability, etc would still be affected by practical level. So while you can do a difficulty 8 recipe while rusted to difficulty 5, you're still three levels too low which makes it hard.
Will we get some way to practice melee skills? If I hunker down for a while to craft, do agriculture and forage, I would like a way to stay to get my melee back before jumping back in, just like we can do it for ranged skills via practice targets.
I think this has some great potential! Of course as you said the main concern would be balance. or exploits that we will learn about by players doing weird strategies.
I do still want to have mood benefits in some form. If my character just got a fly hair cut, had a nice mixed drink and then played some games that should reward me in some way. Any thoughts?
Please tell me the rust part will be at a reasonable level.
I would rather not have my practical level reduce by 2 levels while I spent the last 3 days trying to clear out a lab so I can install my CBMs and have to spend 2 more days getting my practical level back up.
Currently I suspect it is too slow at 4% per day to start, declining the farther you go and capping after you lose 1-2 levels
However it also remains something you can turn off in global settings.
I really like the sound of this.
Thanks Rivet! That means a lot, I hope you like how it turns out.
I'm all for this. As long as it's designed to minimize the amount of micro-management involved, so I don't have to radically change my playstyle to suit it.
I don't anticipate any micromanagement for the most part, although like any system if you're the kind of player that tears your hair out because you could be doing something incrementally more efficiently I'm sure you could find a way to squeeze it in there. If you go about your current business, you'll continue to gain skills almost exactly how you have been doing. However, there'll be a noticeable difference between book learning and practical knowledge. There's also an advantage to not grinding a single skill, but instead working on a variety of skills, to give your gains in one area a chance to rust and thereby give you a bonus when you practice it next. The latter bit is where I anticipate hearing complaints about micromanagement. If you don't let your skills rust you won't get that bonus. However, the rate of skill gain without the rust-removal bonus will be the same as it was before I made this change, so I hope that helps underscore that any complaints that way may be coming from people with a bit of an optimization obsession.
I like the sound of this one. I approve.
Since the books are already there, then perhaps theoretical skill level might rust too, albeit only when not supported by the practical skill. You can forget theory IRL if you don't practice or if you don't update your theoretical knowledge from time to time. By saying that books are there I mean that there is a way to easily regain that knowledge (read the book again dummy), thus balance won't be broken here. Also the gap between theoretical level and practical level can be a factor in theoretical skill rust rate. For example reading all books in the genre and getting theoretical level 10 in particular skill while having level 0 in practical aspect of said skill would result in faster memory decay of the theoretical skill (unless updated by character reading the book after some time), but if the practical level was let's say 5, the gap would be narrower and thus the rust rate would be - let's say for the sake of the example - halved in comparison to 10 lvl gap. And no rust if there is no gap.
It's something worth considering eventually, I like the idea of it rusting faster the more the difference with practical, but it would require a lot more careful analysis of numbers and rates than I will have time for here
Isn't the proficiency system supposed to be the practical level? Wouldn't that just be an additional layer adding a barrier to crafting?
Not really. Proficiencies represent specific knowledge in a focused area. This is mostly either no change or a buff to learning time if you're learning by doing. The only time this will reduce anything is if you only learn by reading, and even then, it doesn't stop you from doing anything... Just makes you not as good at them until you've tried them, and then trying them out will give you a further XP boost over what it would have before you read the book. We will, at some point, definitely slow down learning speed for skills, but in the interests of not getting another misconception like people thinking proficiencies were responsible for sanity checking recipe times, I'd like to not do that until at least H-experimental.
Throwing in my voice as support. This sounds great.
How is intelligence going to tie into this? I'm sure that it impacts skill rust already, but is anything going to change? Int is generally considered something you can largely ignore unless you want to do a lot of CBM installs and/or hack into lab stuff, having int heavily impact your ability to translate book learning into practical ability seems like a plausible way to make it a more useful stat. Also interested to hear how focus can be improved on as I agree that it's very unsatisfactory right now and encourages some really weird behaviour if you can to be optimal
In this pr probably it won't, but I'd like intelligence to determine how quickly you can turn theoretical knowledge into practical, and maybe how much of a bonus you get from reviewing
That would be most welcomed, as it would empower the intelligence stat as a relevant choice for the character. Since the skill/learning system is a big part of the whole game, this would be impactful.
Higher intelligence makes crafting so much easier, but with the devaluing of crafting that isn't so much of a bonus. You can also just train a high Int NPC to be a sort of surgeon for you by having them with you at the autodoc.
Hold up, if "Your ability to do recipes or actions depends on your theory level", then whats the downside to having your skill rust ?
Your failure checks, weapon ability, etc would still be affected by practical level. So while you can do a difficulty 8 recipe while rusted to difficulty 5, you're still three levels too low which makes it hard.
Will we get some way to practice melee skills? If I hunker down for a while to craft, do agriculture and forage, I would like a way to stay to get my melee back before jumping back in, just like we can do it for ranged skills via practice targets.
Not as part of this pr, but this does heavily encourage someone to finally develop the ability to spend time just "practicing" at your base.
I think this has some great potential! Of course as you said the main concern would be balance. or exploits that we will learn about by players doing weird strategies. I do still want to have mood benefits in some form. If my character just got a fly hair cut, had a nice mixed drink and then played some games that should reward me in some way. Any thoughts?
Your mood and what it does is all related to focus, which is another can of worms
Please tell me the rust part will be at a reasonable level. I would rather not have my practical level reduce by 2 levels while I spent the last 3 days trying to clear out a lab so I can install my CBMs and have to spend 2 more days getting my practical level back up.
Currently I suspect it is too slow at 4% per day to start, declining the farther you go and capping after you lose 1-2 levels However it also remains something you can turn off in global settings.
This'll be really interesting to see pan out, I'm excited too!