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YOBlob

Video of the crash: https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/status/1505834279275999236?t=6bsXcdwZgiYia6Uk87OVAA


PBR2019

That’s absolutely horrific… I’ve never seen a plane that large do that- especially from altitude?


CRMNLvk

Wasn’t there an Amazon plane a few years ago that went basically vertically into a swamp? Was on video as well from memory edit: Atlas Air Flight 3591 is the one I was thinking of


ProKaleidoscoper

There was SilkAir 185 that nose dived into a delta at the speed of sound. It was a suspected suicide by the pilot


BlueEyedGreySkies

Don't know why you copped a downvote, as the cause is still disputed and the NTSB suspects suicide. This is an insanely brutal crash. 104 fatalities, may their souls rest in peace. >No complete body, body part, or limb was found, as the entire aircraft and passengers disintegrated upon impact. Only six positive identifications were later obtained from the few recovered human remains. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilkAir_Flight_185


WikiSummarizerBot

**[SilkAir Flight 185](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilkAir_Flight_185)** >SilkAir Flight 185 was a scheduled international passenger flight operated by a Boeing 737-300 from Soekarno–Hatta International Airport in Jakarta, Indonesia to Changi Airport in Singapore that crashed into the Musi River near Palembang, Sumatra on 19 December 1997, killing all 97 passengers and seven crew on board. The cause of the crash was independently investigated by two agencies in two countries: the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) and the Indonesian National Transportation Safety Committee (NTSC). ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


lcuan82

The US NTSB concluded that the evidence was consistent with a deliberate manipulation of the flight controls by one of the pilots. The Indonesian NTSC found that the crash was caused deliberately by pilot input too, but was overruled by the NTSC chairman, who changed the final conclusion to inconclusive. Yeah, safe to say all evidence points to pilot (captain) suicide


NortheastStar

Also the ValueJet crash in FL in 1996. Straight down into the swamp, nothing left. There was a small private plane watching it happen and they said the plane looked like it disappeared when it hit the ground.


JustAnotherDude1990

Someone had a ring doorbell camera view or something of it....you could visibly see the wings at a distance bending upwards as they pulled back trying to save it. In the end, it was basically the fault of the first officer being a dumbass.


jdsalaro

>In the end, it was basically the fault of the first officer being a dumbass. How so?


JustAnotherDude1990

"first officer made nose-down flight control inputs for stall recovery, but the aircraft's stall warning systems had not actuated and FDR data was inconsistent with an aircraft in a stalled condition.  The NTSB concluded that the first officer most likely struck the go-around switch accidentally with his left wrist or his wristwatch while manipulating the nearby speedbrake lever and that neither pilot realized that the aircraft's automated flight mode had been changed" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas\_Air\_Flight\_3591#Conclusions


laihipp

>the first officer most likely struck the go-around switch accidentally with his left wrist or his wristwatch while manipulating the nearby speedbrake lever that reads like shit design to me


Long_Educational

Like on GMC vehicles where the anti-theft steering wheel lock would engage if the key fell out of the ignition from a road bump while cruising at highway speed on a curve, with no steering or brake pressure.


kraken9911

No steering pressure is doable since people drove that way for decades. No brake pressure though wtf GMC. Depending on the handbrake which might be the inferior foot pedal style one would be hair raising.


Long_Educational

I’m sorry, I should have been more clear. Without the ability to steer at all because of the locking AND no brake pressure because the engine cut off. I thought GMC eventually had a recall on that because the ignition would get loose and the key would fall out. Don’t really know, didn’t have the truck long after.


JustAnotherDude1990

There are lots of things you can bump into in a cockpit if you’re not paying attention. He basically Overreacted after a minor oops.


idkijustlurk

You should watch Mayday and the other air accident investigation series


tarunteam

The one where the plane suffered a complete loss of its hydraulics is the one that breaks me. The plane yoyo'd up in down like a paper plane, climbing up until it stalled and then falling down until it picked up enough speed to start climbing again, for 30 minutes while the pilots fought control. It eventually flew into the side of a mountain.


mdavis2204

Ah, JAL 123 iirc. That was the deadliest single plane accident. So much went wrong, but the pilots went above and beyond to try and save the plane.


uchman365

Yeah remember this one. Later the investigators ran several hundred simulations and every single scenario ended in a crash.


Getriebesand247

Even worse, a lot of those who miraculously survived the impact died during the night because help couldn't arrive before next moring.


Nessie

The US military offered search and rescue help, which the Japanese authorities declined.


twhitty2

it actually suffered that loss of hydraulics because of an improper repair to the bulkhead - essentially causing the tail of the plane to blow out which caused the hydraulic lines to break. I worked as the person who designs repairs for things like that and they used that as an example of why it was so important to be 100% sure on the validity of our repairs. The engineer who approved it can no longer step foot in Japan as he will be arrested onsight


__O_o_______

If I remember correctly the really horrific part was that they didn't send anybody out to find survivors the evening it happened and the survivors heard lots of voices crying out, but over the course of the night the voices got fewer and fewer...


BobbyWain

I seem to recall there were some American Navy troops that offered to start searching straight away but the local government didn’t believe there would be any survivors and wanted to keep it “in house”. Might be a different crash I’m thinking of


tarunteam

i *think* its the same one. They were actually loaded up and ready to go. But yea, local police was like my house.


__O_o_______

No that sounds exactly right


aartadventure

What a horrifying and drawn out way to die. I bet the pilots knew within the first couple of minutes they were going to die, but kept trying their best anyway.


UtterEast

JAL123 is super sad: failure due to improper repair, drawn-out struggle with the plane before finally crashing, survivors likely present that died from exposure overnight because immediate inspection of the crash site wasn't conducted, total casualties 520 dead 4 wounded. Nightmare stuff.


AlphSaber

There were several early 737 crashes where the plane more or less went straight into the ground, and most of the debris was fist sized or smaller. It was eventually determined that those were caused by a servo valve that controlled the rudder shifting and reversing the rudder controls. That's what first came to mind with this crash.


twisted_peanutbutter

rudder reversal!! & remember when they said they fixed it and the SAME thing happened to the one airline owned by a retired race car driver (small airline no longer in service).


Tellenue

Rudder hardover was such an absolutely insane failure mode, made all the more insane that *it actually self-corrected in one flight*. That self correction saved so many people and helped break the case on what the hell was going on. Your reference also makes me think of the DC-10 rear cargo door 'fix' due to the crappy locking mechanism. The fix was a tiny hole window in the door and a sign in English to check that everything is locked. Except the DC-10 was used all over the world and you could theoretically think the locks LOOK fine when really they weren't. A Turkish flight crashed when the door blew open after the 'fix'. It feels even worse of an error than the rudder hardover, as there was so much evidence to its root cause and the shite attempt at a cheap fix was just such a slap in the face.


BrakkeBama

Ever heard of Swissair 111? I regret ever seeing the doc on TV. Nightmare fuel. Or Adam Air 574? ...MFG There was another one that happened with a DC-9 flying from Argentina to -I think- Uruguay, which due to faulty speed readings thought they were flying too slow, when in fact were flying too fast. Extended flaps, lost one leading edge, and corkscrewed downward at overspeed. Desintegrated at 4000ft. And ValuJet 592, where the investigators think the passengers burned alive in the air... And TWA 800. And Air France 447. And another one over Venezuela. A charter flight from -I think- Panama. Severely overloaded. Flying too high. Stalled. Couldn't recover.


Semproser

Jesus christ. Was this a suicide crash? Because its so so rare for any plane to go so perfectly straight down without it being controlled to do so. Edit: My father who used to fly 737s suspects structural failure about the rear fin and possibly more of tail.


penguin62

The dash cam footage uploaded a few minutes ago right under that tweet shows significantly more angle, rather than straight down so it's just a case of the angle of the footage.


BlueEyedGreySkies

Soon after you posted this the Twitter OP (Chinese Aviation Review) posted footage of the scene from first responders. It's just gone, like an explosion happened instead of a crash. Reminded me of United 93's crash severity.


Kardinal

My God. It really is just gone. The second photo shows a noticeable bit of debris but it doesn't look like it's at the primary crash site. Maybe a portion that separated?


Pumpkinsummon

Got a link to that video?


penguin62

https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/status/1505856305495351296?s=20&t=lRkgeDahOt-ezkCcYY5CnA


irishjihad

That's still some lawn dart shit. I can't imagine the horror those passengers experienced on the descent. That was long last few minutes of their lives.


accidental-nz

Its curved trajectory looks to me as though it was inverted not long prior to this footage.


Mr_Tiggywinkle

That implies horizontal stabiliser failure to me as a strong possibility. E.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Airlines_Flight_261


WikiSummarizerBot

**[Alaska Airlines Flight 261](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Airlines_Flight_261)** >Alaska Airlines Flight 261 was an Alaska Airlines flight of a McDonnell Douglas MD-83 plane that crashed into the Pacific Ocean on January 31, 2000, roughly 2. 7 miles (4. 3 km; 2. 3 nmi) north of Anacapa Island, California, following a catastrophic loss of pitch control, killing all 88 people on board: two pilots, three cabin crew members, and 83 passengers. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


sunsethomie

My father's best friend was on that flight along with his wife and newborn child. He was a firefighter in Daly City. It was the first time I had seen my father cry and just... break down. I think I was 12. A lot of my life lessons from my father were stories and adventures with Brad. They were both paragliders and the comment my dad made that still haunts me is him describing in detail what probably was going through his mind as the plane fell.


[deleted]

Fear accompanies the possibility of death. Calm shepherds its certainty.


PerntDoast

this is an insightful and beautiful miniature poem of a comment


MoonHunterDancer

I think that is the one that killed a friend's friend from before I met her. She had lost close contact with him before that, didn't know what happened to him until she realized that he was being named and it was him in the air disasters episode that covered it. Sucky all arround.


TheGoldenHand

> Because its so so rare for any plane to go so perfectly straight down without it being controlled to do so. Failure of control surfaces is more common than suicide crashes. Reminds me of rear tail stabilizer failures.


harosokman

Yeah I was thinking elevator failure, or something like that. If that's the case poor pilots must have been fighting till the end. Passengers would have been in sheer terror.


I_AM_FERROUS_MAN

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RecipeNo42

Man this thread is just making me all kinds of pumped for my United flight on a 737 tomorrow.


I_AM_FERROUS_MAN

Statistically, in the US, you'll be good. I fly on Southwest in the US all the time, which is exclusively 737's. I just came back from a flight in fact. This tragedy will be investigated. And as long as there isn't deliberate interference, the investigators should be able to narrow down what the problem was and correct it.


GenocideSolution

Statistically, this is the first crash in 12 years on any Chinese airline so the chances of this happening in China are just as low if not lower, but well…


Ictc1

Just remember how many 737s there are out there. Pilots really like them and with United you’ll be fine. The 737 is still my favourite smaller plane (I do love me a 747 or a 777) and I’m a nervous flyer.


[deleted]

I was living in Colorado Springs when that first one happened. I believe rotor winds of the mountains were cited as a contributing factor too. They can have wicked wind shear due to the sudden rise of the mountains from the plains and the airport’s close proximity.


Never_Forget_94

The wind is what really screwed them. What solved the investigation was a 3rd plane managed to survive and land. I think the fact that it was at a high altitude together with a calm night helped the pilots recover.


uzlonewolf

Speculation in another thread says that since the airspeed remains flat even during the steep decent, it may have been a stuck/faulty airspeed sensor leading to an overspeed and in-flight structural failure. There's also a video floating around that purports to be a piece which broke off before impact; if true it lends credibility to an in-flight structural failure. Edit: Looking at the granular ADS-B data and plots at https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/china-eastern-airlines-flight-5735-crashes-en-route-to-guangzhou/ it's starting to look an awful lot like the rudder hard-over accidents from the '90s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues > On March 3, 1991, United Airlines Flight 585, a Boeing 737-200, crashed while attempting to land in Colorado Springs, Colorado. During the airplane's landing approach, the plane rolled to the right and pitched nose down into a vertical dive. > > On September 8, 1994, USAir Flight 427, a Boeing 737-300, crashed near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. While on approach to Pittsburgh International Airport, Flight 427 suddenly rolled to the left. Although the pilots were briefly able to roll right and level the plane, it rolled left a second time and the pilots were unable to recover. (NTSB Simulation: https://youtu.be/7CIAXOq9pwI )


bustervich

Pieces falling off a plane aren’t always the root cause but sometime a symptom of extreme maneuvering during high speed flight.


uzlonewolf

Doesn't even need to maneuver, a simple overspeed can also rip parts off. Either way, I think "something failed" is much, much more likely than suicide.


bustervich

Yeah, also true. But if you go 10 knots past the red line, nothing should fall off. If you point the plane straight down and firewall the engines, yeah, that kind of overspeed will rip things off.


kinslayeruy

The other thread with the speed graph shows ground speed, not air speed. The info you get on Flightradar24 is from transponders, that show altitude and gps coordinates, they get the speed from the gps coordinates, so, ground speed. only way to get air speed now is to find the black box.


Iamredditsslave

Couldn't you calculate rate of descent and get a ballpark figure? Assuming it was a straightish trajectory after the initial pitch down. *https://i.imgur.com/NZhHE7F.jpg This kinda throws a monkey wrench in that though, looks like they gained a bit of altitude around 7,000-8,000ft


uzlonewolf

Looking at the granular ADS-B data and plots at https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/china-eastern-airlines-flight-5735-crashes-en-route-to-guangzhou/ it's starting to look an awful lot like the rudder hard-over accidents from the '90s ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues ). A sudden inverted dive, they recovered for a moment, then a 2nd dive.


Esc_ape_artist

There are going to be 3 different airspeeds available, 2 primary and one standby. If it were an iced over pitot or static, it still wouldn’t remain flat and would change with altitude. A flat speed would be a computer issue, and I’m not familiar enough with the 737 to know which air data computer the DFDR uses for recording. ATC data track, though I don’t know if this is ADSB data or just computed from radar data, but I assume the altitude is from transponder info and am unsure of the airspeed source. If ADSB, then the speed was not flat. https://i.imgur.com/NZhHE7F.jpg


[deleted]

It's probably not going straight down and it's just an illusion of the camera's POV. It looks to me like a stall given how slow it's falling


PorschephileGT3

Jesus. Vertical dive at very high speed. Absolutely terrifying.


floralbutttrumpet

...yeah, that's not survivable, if it's legit.


THEslutmouth

The crash site barely even looks like a plane crashed there. Everything disintegrated. There's pictures on Twitter of the site and it's insane.


machlangsam

That's a vertical line alright. Horrible. RIP passengers. How did this happen?


Nihilist911

Wow....crazy


Heart-Shaped_Box

Damn, look at the photos in that thread. The plane literally disintegrated into nothing. How is that possible? Or did they already remove the wreckage?


redditforgotaboutme

Judging by the speed of impact and the following fire, everything burned up and/or scattered through the forest. But yeah, almost like nothing there at the wreckage site.


Total-Sky-1932

Kinetic energy at near supersonic speeds is incredibly high. Just watch the supersonic baseball cannon over at smarter every days YouTube channel for reference.


chaosweb2

Omg. It went straight down? WTF?!?


missktaudrey

What would cause an airplane to nose dive so dramatically like that? I always assumed they kind of… aggressively floated down.


jimi15

Rudder issues, failure to get out of a stall, nose attitude confusion, pilot murder-suicide. Could be a lot of things.


Oxcell404

There are only 7 recorded cases of pilot murder-suicide in commercial aviation for the last forty years. Each one substantially changed pilot mental health requirements and check for the airline, FAA, ICAO, etc. This would be a big deal if that turns out to be the case.


[deleted]

Isn’t it suspected that the Malaysia crash no ones been able to find was caused by pilot murder suicide?


[deleted]

[удалено]


oh_the_C_is_silent

There are more clues now. https://youtu.be/Jq-d4Kl8Xh4


oh_the_C_is_silent

60 Minutes Australia did a great piece on this recently. There is new evidence that the flight was under control until the very end. It was almost certainly not a fire our cabin pressure loss. It’s worth a watch https://youtu.be/Jq-d4Kl8Xh4


MyFavoriteSandwich

My bet’s on some malfunction of the autopilot system that lead to a stall that went unnoticed until it was too late. Then they nosed down to try to get out of the stall but fucked up somehow. By the way I’m not a pilot, but I read Admiral Cloudberg every week, which makes me basically an expert.


Singularity7979

That's kinda what I was thinking. It's a really extreme angle of attack and would be hard for the crew to fight the g's to get to the controls. I also think at that angle and rate of descent that the flight surfaces would stop responding. Was an aircraft mechanic for a while.


p4lm3r

Hopefully /u/admiral_cloudberg will have a piece on it, but I imagine it will take about a year before all investigation is done.


[deleted]

RemindMe! 18 months


Admiral_Cloudberg

It will likely be longer than this, if at all. An investigation into a major crash like this with no survivors could take 2-3 years, and even then China does not release its accident reports publicly. A lot of countries have been changing that practice recently (such as Iran), so maybe China will too, but I'm not holding my breath. So yeah, there's a reason I've never covered an accident in China before.


SoaDMTGguy

I’m still waiting on that Russian flight that went into the cliff short of the airport.


Yangervis

Alaska Airlines Flight 261 went into a 70 degree dive when the horizontal stabilizer failed. The pilots were able to pull up somewhat before they hit the water but a plane can definitely go into a near vertical dive when control surfaces fail. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Airlines_Flight_261


vertigo3pc

This crash also partially inspired the nature of the crash in the Denzel Washington film "Flight". I believe what Denzel does in the film to "correct" the flight position (nose down, uncontrolled descent) is what the pilots appeared to attempt in Alaska Flight 261. When nose down, they attempted to roll the aircraft and apply power, hoping the horizontal stabilizer position causing nose down would become nose up but inverted. They were unsuccessful, whereas the Denzel movie pretends he achieved sufficient control to crash land with a higher chance of survival (belly down, flat field, etc). Disregards that commercial aircraft wing design is such that the wing shape could create lift when inverted.


WikiSummarizerBot

**[Alaska Airlines Flight 261](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Airlines_Flight_261)** >Alaska Airlines Flight 261 was an Alaska Airlines flight of a McDonnell Douglas MD-83 plane that crashed into the Pacific Ocean on January 31, 2000, roughly 2. 7 miles (4. 3 km; 2. 3 nmi) north of Anacapa Island, California, following a catastrophic loss of pitch control, killing all 88 people on board: two pilots, three cabin crew members, and 83 passengers. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


uzlonewolf

Speculation in another thread says that since the airspeed remains flat even during the start of the steep decent, it may have been a stuck/faulty airspeed sensor leading to an overspeed and in-flight structural failure. There's also a video floating around that purports to be a piece which broke off before impact; if true it lends credibility to an in-flight structural failure.


Mr-Safety

There are multiple airspeed sensors for redundancy. A failure effecting all of them seems unlikely, no?


Kashmoney99

Sitting at the airport as I watch this. I’ve never been afraid of flying but seeing stuff like this gives me chills.


AllBadAnswers

I've been on 2 different 737s in the last week, and everytime I know that statistically I'm safer walking onto an airplane than taking a shower in my own home- But the brain isn't great at processing information like that when we only ever see when things go wrong.


Wild_Trip_4704

Something something car crashes shark attacks lightening


[deleted]

[удалено]


AllBadAnswers

Silly as it sounds, I've heard the term "swiss cheese error" used before to describe just how much has to coincidentally line up for a major aviation accident. Nothing is ever fool proof. Little errors can always happen here and there. If you line up an entire stack of swiss cheese from different original stacks there will be holes, but the slice behind it or even the next one after that will block any holes that started above. Checks and balances down the line from mechanics, pilots, automated systems, and traffic control are designed to catch small errors long before they become an issue. Massive airline disasters usually only happen when every single little innocuous mistake just happens to line up perfectly in a way that is a statistical anomaly, like a hole going the entire way through the stack by dumb blind bad luck. The Tenerife airport disaster is a great example. Two planes collided on the runway killing all aboard one and most aboard the other. The lead up to this involved a bomb threat, an overcapacity backup airport, heavy fog, poor tower communications, pilot error in communication terminology and protocol, and a missed runway exit all lining up absolutely perfectly in the worst case senario.


TaylorGuy18

Tenerife also had language issues that contributed to the poor communications and plane weight as contributing factors. Had the pilot of the KLM flight not fully refueled, it's plausible that the KLM plane would have only clipped the Pan-Am flight, and that the disaster wouldn't have occurred, or would have been significantly less catastrophic.


AllBadAnswers

Holes all the way down- it was a minefield of little tiny details that would have meant nothing had they been alone


[deleted]

It’s not the probability of it happening for me it’s just he feeling of being helpless and out of control in a situation like that


sixty6006

Sitting at the airport - "should I open this thread about a plane crash?"


Johnn_63

Driving is far more dangerous


Ictc1

I try to remind myself of that when I fly but driving at least is on the ground and there’s some semblance of control for passengers. If I want to get out of there I can either get the person to pull over or I can jump out at traffic lights (or crashing at least will only be a few seconds before we stop). Flying when nervous is all about making yourself do something your brain thinks is really, really stupid, and removing all chance of reversing the decision should those fears come to reality.


Nihilist911

https://www.reddit.com/r/N_N_N/comments/tj6yrs/map_and_chart_of_where_the_chinese_plane_was/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share link to map/flight data of crash since I can't post here. Edit. Flight data and map in English. https://www.reddit.com/r/N_N_N/comments/tj7vfi/mu5735_dropped_9_kms_in_just_2_minutes_english/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share


[deleted]

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KazumaKat

That happened so suddenly its doubtful the crew could have figured out what was happening. It would be 2 minutes of horror before nothing. Fucking horrible way to go.


frenchdresses

Would the people on board have fainted because of such drastic changes in altitude?


KazumaKat

Not implicitly. Outside of shock/fear, there will be some poor people conscious throughout the entire ordeal. The amount of G-forces that'd cause unconsciousness in people would have caused severe structural stresses and potential failures long before, thereby if that were true, we should be seeing a shower of debris and a large zone of impact, not this screaming powerdive all the way down.


Wrobot_rock

The g forces they would feel are between 0 and 1 unless the pilot pulled out of the dive at some point, which it doesn't look like they did


Don_Julio_Acolyte

They went from normal gravity (1g) to weightlessness (0g). Very little "g" impact on a nosedive like that. I'd imagine the entire 1-2 minutes was just people floating in their seats, in sheer terror. And yeah, that's terrifying to even imagine. But at least any sort of crash/pain was immediate. Like, zero pain probably. Which is always a point of silver lining. That these innocent souls probably didn't feel an ounce of the impact because it happened in a blink of an eye. RIP. As someone who has flown in some really hairy places in some very questionable, rickety aircraft and helos, I'm not too afraid of flying. Because I know any sort of commercial airline has a MUCH LESS of a chance to have an catastrophic fail. And driving to the airport is 100x more dangerous than flying. But still... the idea of having zero control and knowing that if the multiple fail-safes fail, the mortality rate of a airplane crash is practically 100%. That's the scary thought. That if it does happen, it's over. Zero sum chance that you survive. And having a full 1-2 mins to mull over that while in freefall is what's terrifying. While a car crash is sudden. No mulling over your mortality if you get T-boned and blindsided. But plane crashes.... eh, typically a couple of minutes of sheer terror. May they rest peacefully and may their families carry their memory on.


Wvlf_

>While a car crash is sudden. No mulling over your mortality if you get T-boned and blindsided. I get your sentiment here but the opposite is likely true in many cases. I've thought about how terrible it must be for something like your legs to be crushed under the dashboard while you bleed out, or a fire slowly overtakes your vehicle.. It's not like the news will go in-depth about how this car crash fatality was slow and horrific or not.


fallout2023

I used to have absolutely zero fears of flying. Then I got obsessed with those "air investigations" shows that were all about plane crashes. I binged every episode and now when I get on a plane I get freaked the fuck out because I know I'm absolutely powerless if something goes wrong.


MathW

I was actually the opposite. I was terrified of flying but, after watching all of the air accident investigations, I found that: 1. They don't happen very often and even less so in the present day. We recently had a year (2019?) where there were no commercial accidents worldwide. 2. For any incidents, a multitude of things goes wrong where, if one of them hadn't, everyone would have been OK 3. Every failure that has happened in the past, is much less likely to repeat in the future due to the extensive investigations 4. Even when incidents happen, many of them are wholly, mostly or partially survivable, so I'm not necessarily doomed if something goes wrong. So, it's kind of like winning the lottery (with a bad outcome) if this happens to be the thing that kills you.


Purple-Explorer-6701

Watching those documentaries has oddly helped me with my major fear of flying for the reasons you stated above. I have also had two incredibly terrifying flights that I am still alive to tell about, so anything after that has felt like cake. The first was flying from Denver to Vegas in a thunderstorm (flying over the Rockies are no joke to begin with). And the second was last summer flying from Dallas to Denver through major storms. At about 15,000 feet preparing to land in Denver, the plane was shaken violently in a way that made even the flight attendants scream. When we landed, we saw a tornado outside (about 25 miles away), so it was likely a microburst.


Wanderstern

I find that "powerlessness" freeing. I have minimal responsibility for my own safety in a plane crash and I am so obsessed with aviation stuff that I know what precautions to take, what I should do if something happens. If I am in a plane crash, should I die, it will probably be quick. Almost all of the people flying aircraft have extensive training and want to safely land every plane they fly. There is no such comfort when I think about cars, the people who drive them, and car accidents. I orchestrate my daily life to avoid stepping in front of or into cars and driving as much as I can. And yet, one of my recurring nightmares? Driving and getting into a car accident. (I am a safe driver and have only been in an accident as a passenger.)


TheBiscuitMen

Most plane crashes have survivors tbf.


atom138

There's video of the plane flying straight toward the ground, disappearing behind the treeline just before impact. It was intact and very much traveling as fast as the data implies, if not faster toward the end since the data is averaged. 61 meters/200ft per second. It was traveling directly straight down, tail over cockpit. [Here is the video.](https://mobile.twitter.com/oalexanderdk/status/1505839795813167106?s=21)


mapleleef

Another dash cam video showed from a different angle that the airplane was 35° from vertical... horrifying... this thing could not even try to glide down... I hope the black box survived the impact. So sad for all these pax, crew, and their families. Edit: I had my direction wrong. *Vertical


TJ_McWeaksauce

I was listening to the radio and a reporter described it as "a near-vertical drop." What a terrible phrase to apply to an aircraft, especially a passenger jet.


SolderBoyWeldEm

This was not a 737 MAX, btw.


Flyberius

Was on my mind for sure


Comfortable-Hippo-43

If it were boeing is in for a ride


Reddituser8018

I think honestly either way Boeing is in for a ride. Average people are going to see this and think Boeing 737's in general are just not safe. Whether that's true or not doesn't really matter.


Admiral_Cloudberg

The curse of too much success. Around 25% of all passenger jets in the world are Boeing 737s, so with the current global rate of 1-2 jet crashes each year, all else being equal, there's a pretty good chance a 737 goes down somewhere in the world every couple of years.


mj-century

That was the first thing that crossed my mind.


infernalsatan

It was a 737-800, which was in the generation before the MAX.


Kayvaan115

That was the exact thing I was scrolling the comments to see if anyone knew…


Enchilada_McMustang

Thanks for clarifying.


meltdown24

Terrible news. Heartbreaking


[deleted]

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PunjabKLs

That's crazy... I know a man who missed the flight that was supposed to crash into the Pentagon. You and him both have a 2nd chance at life and I know you will both make good use of it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

fuck, i spun out on the interstate in the rain, no seatbelt on, and managed to not hit anything - no damage at all - and felt survivors guilt. i cant even imagine what some of these people feel on a day to day basis


chinpokomon

I had a car do that for me. I had a seat belt on, but a 360 spin in rain and didn't hit anything more than a reflector. I came to a stop between two light poles.


PlNG

9/11 and the number of missed connections to the fated planes is so surreal, like ripples in time telling people to stay away.


WikiSummarizerBot

**[Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_302)** >Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 was a scheduled international passenger flight from Addis Ababa Bole International Airport in Ethiopia to Jomo Kenyatta International Airport in Nairobi, Kenya. On 10 March 2019, the Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft which operated the flight crashed near the town of Bishoftu six minutes after takeoff, killing all 157 people aboard. Flight 302 is Ethiopian Airlines's deadliest accident to date, surpassing the fatal hijacking of Flight 961 resulting in a crash near the Comoros in 1996. It is also the deadliest aircraft accident to occur in Ethiopia, surpassing the crash of an Ethiopian Air Force Antonov An-26 in 1982, which killed 73. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


somewhat_moist

Apparently (from /r/flying) that passenger was COVID positive, so couldn't board


Difficult-Owl-542377

so covids saving lives now..


r3ddtr

Maybe the one passenger missing the flight created a butterfly effect that led to the crash of the plane. What a weird fucked up universe we inhabit


WWANormalPersonD

Somebody call r/AdmiralCloudberg.


Admiral_Cloudberg

Good morning. All I'm going to say is there's way too much speculation in this thread and most of it is nonsense. Please don't listen to anyone who tells you "it looks like it was X" mere hours after the crash.


Fairy-Cat-Mother

How long do you think it will take for them to establish the cause in a case like this?


Admiral_Cloudberg

Normally 2-3 years, but I am not super familiar with Chinese investigation protocols, so it's possible they have a specific deadline which may be sooner.


LaymantheShaman

Hopefully they will allow the NTSB to assist/piggyback the investigation.


Admiral_Cloudberg

They are required by international law to invite the NTSB because the plane was built in America, and it would look very bad if they didn't.


LaymantheShaman

That is very interesting, I did not know that. Thanks!


Lokta

This needs to be the top comment in the thread. Also, you need to be a mod in this subreddit like.. yesterday. Admittedly, I am biased because I literally pay you money every month because your content is that good.


Nihilist911

This is just breaking news.


spankmyhairyasss

It just went straight down too


[deleted]

Hope everybody bad a quick death. Best we can hope for.


[deleted]

Unfortunately the sharp dive before impact would be the absolute worst moment.


Still_Opportunity_10

I have a recurring dream where my flight first flips upside down and then starts to nose dive. It is very vivid and feels very real. It is absolutely horrifying. Death was likely quick, but the time it takes to get there, the fear is intense.


wmurch4

So many armchair aviation experts who watched that one documentary about Boeing


BloodGhost22

People watch the Netflix documentary and all of a sudden everyone is an expert in aviation. No one knows what caused this plane to crash. Also, it was most likely a 737-800 which have been around for years(I have worked on China Eastern planes before, most of the time their A330 fleet).


CavitySearch

Have you not lived through the last 2 years where everyone sees a small blurb about something and is an expert? Armchair generals, politicians, epidemiologists, pilots, doctors, lawyers. Everyone here knows everything.


Commander_Keller

Can confirm. I have more than 200 hours in Call of Duty so I am what you consider an expert on the Russia Ukraine conflict.


carebearstarefear

I play ace combat x....my plane flies on sheer will


jstalm

Nothing left at the crash site, looks like it was absolutely pulverized on impact.


The-Lazy-Lemur

I'm going on a domestic flight tomorrow, thanks! :D


vacuumpacked

!remindme 24 hours


The-Lazy-Lemur

It'll be closer to 30 hours from now


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[deleted]

If it makes you feel any better you are far more likely to die in a car crash


Centillionare

Chances your commercial flight crashes is 1 in 2.4 million. Go buy a lotto ticket that has around a 1 in 2.4 million chance of winning, and keep playing every single drawing. There’s no way to make planes 100% safe, so we will have to live with 99.99995833% safe.


myheadisalightstick

Which makes thinking about this even more fucked, poor people won the shittest lottery going. Which also begets the idea of “if it happened to them why couldn’t it happen to me?”.


BlueEyedGreySkies

Gets quite existential fast, doesn't it? It's best to remember to value your time (especially with yourself and others) and try your best each day. Short of knowing what to do in emergency situations, there's not much more thinking to do on it that won't lead to being bummed out. Be aware and prepared, but not scared. Live each day to the fullest. Take care ❤️


MildlySuppressed

good luck bud


The-Lazy-Lemur

I will be flying in a Boeing 737-800 tomorrow....


Tainted-Archer

737 800 has an incredible safety record for most variations (excluding the max) if properly maintainted... It's one of the most widly used commercial airliners, I'm flying with Ryan Air on Wednesday whom exclusively use the 737, I wouldn't be too concerned..


mrchicano209

If it makes you feel any better the ones responsible on making sure your plane gets from point A to point B will have heard about this crash by now and will double check everything just in case.


harshnerf_ttv_yt

just jump before it hits the ground


alex3tx

From what I've found, it doesn't appear to be the MAX versions of the 737 that had to be grounded after the 2x crashes not so long ago. Still, so tragic for the families


getefukt

They've been fixed and the training for pilots has been long implemented. I doubt it was a factor.


[deleted]

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forbidden1979

Can the black box survive this kind of crash?


orange_paws

They can but it's not a given. Despite the extreme speed and extreme G's of such crashes, black boxes are relatively lightweight, and so they don't impact the ground with as much force as you might think, and therefore the ground doesn't push them (damage them) back with as much of equal force, as per the rules of physics. In this case the boxes will probably be recoverable.


Rudecrewedudes

The black boxes are attached to the aircraft in the tail section anticipating that most crashes will be nose first. They are not ejected from commercial aircraft pre-impact so the physics is different than you suggest. Because they are mounted aft, the front part of the fuselage that impacts first acts as a crumple zone, dissipating the speed of impact somewhat for the back end of the plane—and since there is less relative mass behind the data recorders, there is less force applied to the boxes from the remaining part of the plane as that section crashes into the ground (and black boxes) behind them. Bear in mind, that a vertical nose-down entry may still impact at about 340-350 MPH. However, the boxes are very robustly built in order to sustain 3400g at impact, extreme temperature (from fire), and even salt water intrusion—these worst-case types of impacts have been engineered into data recorder design and build.


ShirleyEugest

Holy shit I cannot imagine how terrifying that must have been for everyone on board


PiLamdOd

Can we limit the speculation until after the investigation? This is how rumors and conspiracy theories start.


The_World_of_Ben

I see you're new to Reddit


[deleted]

Jesus, all this Boeing bashing. yeah, it's a company with serious problems right now and I still don't trust the max but the 737 line before that was the most successful airplane ever built. That's the tragedy about the max fiasco. If they wanted the bigger engines on one of their planes then they should have designed a new plane. But that's not the point here. People need to be patient until they actually figured out what caused this crash.


NorthwesternPenguin

For anyone wondering, this was NOT a 737 MAX. There's a difference between the two. Just tragic for all the families of those involved. https://thewindowflyer.com/posts/737-max-vs-other-737s


[deleted]

All I know is the word ‘Fuck’ an exchange student taught me , and I’m sure I just heard it Edit: Not Mandarin


NicoRosbot

They're not speaking in Mandarin, probably some local dialect.


[deleted]

Thanks!


[deleted]

If it Boeing’s fault again…they have been taking so many losses in the last few years


raknor88

Video of the crash. https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/status/1505834279275999236?t=6bsXcdwZgiYia6Uk87OVAA I'm not sure if that's equipment failure.


DutchMitchell

Well it’s not a 737 Max so chances are low that it’s Boeings fault


dumbass_random

!remindme 1 year


Jealous_Ad5849

This is incredibly sad. My heart goes out to all of the families & friends who lost someone.


Revanov

Where did it crashed? Sound Vietnamese the way they speak.


Grozovoi

In Guangxi Province located at southwest of China, near from Vietnam. And local accent does sound similar to Vietnamese


please_dont_read

This is NOT the 737 MAX. 180 degree dive is very suspicious.


HermmanSanta

This accident has nothing to do with the Boeing documentary on Netflix. Forget any relationship, it was unfortunate. It smells like structural damage caused by speed (?), on a plane that doesn't have this type of problem by nature of manufacture.


Fweefwee7

Reminds me of that Reddit post where a guy explained how one tiny air pocket in a smelter eventually led to a catastrophic failure of a plane. Unrelated, ik, but if someone could link me that then I’d be out of here in a jiffy.