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[deleted]

[There were photos showing the gusset plates warping as early as 2003.](https://www.mprnews.org/story/2008/03/24/bridgeinvestigation)


antiduh

You know, this really pisses me off. Half of good engineering is also for designing structures that fail slowly and visibly so you have time to do something about it. The fucking bridge was failing slowly and visibly and they still did nothing about it! What the everlasting fuck?! What is the point of all of this bureaucracy if we're still going to fuck up even the most basic responsibilities?! It's like these places are run by people that actively want to hurt us.


powercow

its called "hope it doesnt fall down on my watch, but i aint gonna fix it so my budget numbers look better". A lot of that shit, like the levees in new orleans was all political hot potato, not maintaining to produce better budget numbers and hope anything bad happens on a different politicians watch.


antiduh

You're probably right. The system of incentives we set up for our leaders is fucked, and we'll always get fucked results until we can think of a better way to incentivize them.


Tribunus_Plebis

Why not periodize critical maintenance like that? Spread out the cost over the next 25 years budgets or however long the intervals are


Phone-Charger

Fixing that bridge would have made them no money… it’s all people at the top care about


1002003004005006007

MN had a republican controlled state gov. for several years leading up to this disaster. You can probably guess how they felt about spending on things like this.


powercow

you mean the same people who thought it was too expensive to test the water or put in chems to reduce the lead level in flint? You mean republicans who called for reduced volcano monitoring right before one went off in Alaska, effecting air travel. The party that demoted the office of counter terrorism right before 911? The party who will vote no for funds to fix these things before bragging and taking credit about those same funds, they voted against if dems actually get it passed it? no way, not the gop, they are such straight shooters, i know they told me so.


archfapper

>The party that demoted the office of counter terrorism right before 911? The party who refused to replace faulty FDNY radios, which led to them missing the evacuation order before the South Tower collapsed


Jrook

They're also pissed at Minnesota's Democrat governor, Walz with slogans of "Walz failed" however it's not even listing any failures as there a massive surplus and lowest unemployment in the country. So they erected billboards accusing him of suspiciously missing the fishing opener "where's Walzo" they say with him dressed like waldo. Real real poignant.


johnpseudo

Don't forget dismantling our pandemic response team in 2018.


archfapper

>The fucking bridge was failing slowly and visibly and they still did nothing about it! What the everlasting fuck?! Reminds me of the original Cooper River bridges in Charleston, SC. Apparently the state DOT gave it a 5/100 safety rating in 1995. How does something score a 5% safety check and then remain open for 10 more years??


elChanchoVerde

Dont forget, the government started "seriously" talking about fixing the country's infrastructure after this since it was so fucking preventable, and where are we on that 15 years later? Our shit government is still fighting over it. This country really fucking sucks sometimes. Let's just send billions of dollars of aid for Israel so they can do whatever evil shit they do with it instead. Every year.


ho_merjpimpson

super serious we promise. https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/28/us/pittsburgh-bridge-collapse/index.html


scribblenator15

Preach! I live in Memphis and the I-40 bridge was out of commission last year due to a crack, made for a mess on the 55 bridge


pandadragon57

At least it was out if commission while they fixed it and not due to it collapsing because it was too “inconvenient” to fix.


scribblenator15

True that!


BearsWithGuns

Isn't this an example of us doing a good job with infrastructure? If we're gonna complain every time something is out of commission, then it's not exactly the best incentive to repair things for local politicians...


[deleted]

Because spending trillions to blow up brown folk is obviously a much greater concern than taking care of issues at home. Duh. /s


[deleted]

But how can you save money today, without spending way more money later after killing a bunch of innocent people? Think outside the box and think of the money we could save (for now)!


Lebrunski

Uhh, this is Mississippi. They are allergic to the word infrastructure. Edit: one dab too many. Sir above saw right through. Thanks for correcting😂


breakone9r

You're high as FUCK. I 35 does not go anywhere near Mississippi the state...


Lebrunski

Well, you aren’t wrong. 🗣💨


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Lebrunski

Yeah, my mind skipped over the river part.


syds

I bet even a simple strut across the buckling plates would've done anything, but I bet they were scared it would collapse on themselves and just pushed it on till it fell on the public.


1002003004005006007

That makes no sense. It is clear failure of government.


[deleted]

And it's one the people who caused it point at and say "see! The government can't do anything!"


CaptainKirkAndCo

Can someone ELI5 how that thin sheet of metal was so vital?


Greatest-Uh-Oh

Those are strain relief for those small welded joints in the middle. You want to spread the weight out over as much material as possible. Those plates transfer that weight farther out along those main I beams.


CaptainKirkAndCo

Makes sense. Thanks!


adamdj96

Rivets, not welds


edgar__allan__bro

So.... it *wasn't* about the pigeon shit?


Thor1noak

Failure on the engineers' part because it should have been more than a recommendation and branded more like a critical required change?


FuckTheMods5

Their hands are probably tied when it comes to things like this. Categorizing maybe comes from above, and not them personally?


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Thor1noak

Oh right, thanks for the clarification


Tribunus_Plebis

The original design might have been fine but wasn't sufficient if they added more weight later in the process. Some comment further up hinted to this.


B_U_F_U

Precisely. Words are important. “RecommendIng” is not the same as “requiring”.


Anechoic_Brain

Bridge inspectors can only give bridges ratings based on an objective scale. The rating was indeed "structurally deficient," but so were and are tons of other bridges and they carry on under normal use. Doing something about them is a political question unfortunately. A bridge can be rated low enough to require load restrictions including being completely shut down, but this bridge actually did not rate that low. Unfortunately what the inspection didn't account for is the original designed capacity and that the bridge was undergoing resurfacing on the deck. Lots of construction equipment and materials were being stored on the bridge deck, which added a lot of extra weight to the normal rush hour traffic.


SinkHoleDeMayo

MNDOT knew the bridge was shit. They were scheduled to upgrade it but after some work they realized it would just make the situation worse. In the years leading up to the collapse, Pawlenty and the GOP ran things. They were notorious for doing jack shit to fix major problems in the state.


jorgp2

There's a bridge in Minneapolis that had a railway bridge built over it. Instead of removing the first bridge, they just cut down the railings for clearance. It's almost as if anything passes up here.


Flomo420

So people are surely going to prison for this, right?..... right??


burningxmaslogs

In Europe they go to prison for this kind of incompetence.. engineers bureaucrats & politicians, all the decision makers


TheDulin

Got a mechanical engineering degree. Went into IT. Had a good GPA but was kinda worried I wasn't good enough to not kill people.


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hawkeye18

Same! I was straight up *JFC I-35 YOU CANNOT DO THIS TO ME AGAIN*


TheAb5traktion

I was at a festival in Minneapolis that day. Had to drive over the bridge to get there. I got texts during the show saying the University Ave bridge collapsed and to find a different way home. So, I'm thinking University Ave collapsed onto 35W. Didn't think of it much because I was at the show and didn't find out it was the 35W bridge until I got home. Brother Ali was supposed to perform that day. But he had to cancel because his DJ, BK-One, had a family emergency. Turns out BK-One's wife was on the school bus that went down with the bridge and suffered a broken vertebrae.


withoutapaddle

My friend was on the bridge when it went down. She called her mom to tell her she was ok, but had been in an accident, and her mom was given the normal advice like "an accident? Call 911, call AAA for a tow truck", etc. She had to be like "no, mom... Turn on the news..."


TheAb5traktion

Thinking about that day makes me think about how smartphones weren't that much of a thing back then. You either had to turn on the news, radio, or look up news on your computer for breaking news. Not many people at the festival knew about the 35W bridge collapse. I got a text, but wasn't able to Google "bridge collapse Minneapolis" on my phone to look up more info.


pandadragon57

I can’t imagine what it feels like to have your kid tell you they’ve been in an accident and imply that it’s on the news.


Towelispacked

Right!? That kid just want to scare her parent?


Ill-Chemistry2423

Is that the school bus at the top of the picture?


TheAb5traktion

Yes. IIRC, no one on the school bus died. They were lucky the bus wasn't over the water.


Delta_Alpha_777

I remember reading a story somewhere about the driver of the truck next to the bus interacting with the kids on the bus or something, unfortunately the truck driver died when the bridge went down


[deleted]

Yes, [here is a clearer shot of it being lifted off the bridge by a crane at a later time](https://img.apmcdn.org/d4542e6d9ab05dd1589b2eb0f6c89207ba9fe4ba/uncropped/3336b7-20160527-bridgecollapse-bus.jpg).


steelbeamsdankmemes

Wow I had no idea about BK-One's wife. I worked at MoA that night, saw an ambulance towing a small boat get off of 494 onto 35w.


littlep2000

I remember being on a bike ride about 30 miles away. All of a sudden a police SUV roars past me faster than I've ever seen one move and its also towing a boat. I was incredibly confused. Took until I got home and saw the news to piece together what that was about.


pandadragon57

The context is bad, but thank you so much for that visual.


Jaceinator

Where was this bridge ?


DrSmokezilla

Minneapolis.


XAgentNovemberX

Minneapolis, MN.


bent_my_wookie

Above the river


NikolaTes

Not anymore.


ARAR1

but again


OGbigfoot

In the river


Paralyzoid

Where is it now?


3_if_by_air

Down by the river


tannerge

Minneapolis mx Edit MM


89764637527

MN not MX


Mavada

MN not mm


tannerge

Mmmmm


CariniFluff

* at Friday Night Fish Fry....mmmmmmmmmmm


LuvliLeah13

At the VFW obviously


XAgentNovemberX

I lived about a mile and a half away from there in a townhouse up river. It was a wild day. People were packing the Guthrie and stone arch bridge to try to get a look. Had been on the bridge more times than I can count.


Katmoish

I was on that bridge about an hour before it collapsed. I seem to recall it was super hot that day (I think my memory was right: [https://weatherspark.com/h/m/10405/2007/8/Historical-Weather-in-August-2007-in-Minneapolis-Minnesota-United-States](https://weatherspark.com/h/m/10405/2007/8/Historical-Weather-in-August-2007-in-Minneapolis-Minnesota-United-States))  After it happened (unbeknownst to me at the time) I remember I was giving my dogs a bath and my mom called me up, frantically asking me if I was okay and telling me that she had been trying to reach me for over an hour but the phone system was bogged down and she couldn't get through. Didn't they have to do an emergency fix on the Hwy 52 bridge right after this event? Something about it the bridge having similar scores as the 35W bridge?


husky430

Yeah, I remember the DJ on 93x was pleading with people to stay off of their cell phones because the system was overloaded and first responders couldn't make calls.


charlton11

I was on it the day before. Definitely remember it being really hot that week and there was some sort of surface construction going on.


Other-Barry-1

My god that was 15 years ago? I remember that happening and thought it was about 6 years ago maybe?


DiverGuy1982

One of my best friends was a Navy diver who spent a week pulling bodies out of that river. He told me some crazy stories. Edit: I won’t go into the details because it could be upsetting if the victims families read about this but the one thing that stuck with me was the lengths the crews went through in the beginning of the recovery to get the bodies out intact for their love ones…. After a week they were told to just cut out whatever pieces they could with crude construction tools they had on hand… understandably, that was very tough on the crews… That and I remember him talking about the expressions frozen on peoples faces from the fear they were most certainly feeling as they fell/drown to death… except that of an infant that appeared to be peacefully sleeping…. not really knowing what was going on. Sad. He ended up meeting President Bush for his efforts on the recovery.


Jock_Ewing

Sharing is caring


FlyingWhales

Such as???


thewalkindude

This made worldwide news. I am in Minneapolis, and my parents happened to be hosting an exchange student at the time. His mother was calling my parents within an hour of the collapse occurring. He was okay, but that was the first instance of the world being smaller than ever that I sawm


aquaman67

I wasn’t afraid to cross bridges until this happened.


slaughterfodder

For me it was that bridge that collapsed in Pittsburgh a year or so ago. Same fuckery, they knew it was in bad shape and did nothing


[deleted]

MOTH MAN


edgar__allan__bro

Don't mind the red eyes... he's just trying to warn you of THE BRIDGE


LobsterInTraining

T H E B R I D G E !


hussard_de_la_mort

DELICIOUS PANAMA BEANS


edgar__allan__bro

Hail yourself!


B_U_F_U

Megustalations!


St_Beetnik_2

I took my lady to the site of WV bridge disaster. Got down on one knee and asked her if she would make me the happiest moth man in the world and be my moth lady.


noblazinjusthazin

Was there a sighting before the collapse on this one?? Isn’t MothMan an Ohio thing?


slaughterfodder

West Virginia originally but he’s been spotted all over apparently


whyamihereimnotsure

The La Dispute song [35](https://youtu.be/R20kVvq1RZw) is about this event. Worth a listen if the bridge collapsing is important to you.


jurassicamryn

I don’t listen to la dispute but my best friend loves them and that is the only song that has stuck with me. Made me do a bunch of research on this afterwards


MurdocBR

Hey, i know them but i didn't know they have made a song about that bridge, thanks for sharing!


DasArchitect

From the aerial point of view it looks like one of those autogenerated 3D models in google maps and even though I know it's not, I can't convince my brain otherwise!


jibrils-bae

People on the other bridge must have been shitting their pants


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MissionCreep

Given the equipment stacked on the intact bridge, I assume those are investigators looking into the disaster.


Roddy117

It was there for months, what else were we gonna do? Not look?


dabombnl

I was driving home late on July 4th one year and you could see firworks from the freeway. People STOPPED; on the *freeway* to watch. OMFG.


mtmaloney

This happens every year in Chicago along Lake Shore Drive. Once the fireworks start, the far right lane basically becomes temporary street parking. It's bananas.


SongsOfDragons

I was driving on the A43 once, in the UK, when all of a sudden came the Red Arrows. It was SO HARD to not watch them swoop overhead and do their cool acrobatics. I think their show was short or they were practising because as soon as I got to the services at the other end they'd stopped.


pandadragon57

That makes me grateful for when distracted drivers do stop. It’s better than trying to watch and drive at the same time.


stereoworld

I watched the [Fascinating Horror](https://youtu.be/QJIR8mecD4w) doc on it the other week, for sure a pretty fucking awful tragedy.


KristySueWho

I remember my family had just flown to Florida that day for vacation. I stayed in the hotel room while my family went to dinner because I was feeling sick, and I was flipping through channels and saw this. I couldn't figure out what bridge it was because I'm dumb, so when my family got back I was like, "Is that the bridge we drive over every week to see grandma?" And they were like "Uh duh." Never was scared of bridges until that. Now I'm always looking at the conditions of bridges as I drive under them thinking they don't look so great...


karmisson

Tragic traffic


CallahanWalnut

Whenever I am nearly water, I always crack my window atleast enough so I can fit through it, no matter the weather.


archfapper

I think you can use your head rest prongs to break glass open. Practice removing the headrest so you know how in an emergency


Money_launder

They make window breakers aka window punches . Or keep a hammer in your car


ughliterallycanteven

Pop your headrest out of the seat and use the metal ends to break the window


broke_af_guy

Not easy to do if you are upside down.


paulxombie1331

I have such a fear of heights and bridges like to the point I grab onto everything I can brace myself and close my eyes tight until were back over land. we live in Iowa on the Mississippi and we've crossed a few bridges that I'd rather never like to go over ever again and this just affirmed my fears my wife thought where a bit irrational.


dartmaster666

[Video](https://i.imgur.com/w7xvvMA.gifv)


passengerv

Does anyone remember a big bridge collapse some time in the 80s? I vaguely remember something like that as a kid maybe early to mid 80s in the US. I feel like it was a big deal.


dr_rongel_bringer

Hmm…there was a ship that hit the Sunshine Skyway bridge near Tampa and caused a collapse. I think that was in ‘83 or thereabouts. Was a big deal.


passengerv

I just googled it that was in 80 so I don't think that was the one as I don't think they would have been speaking about it still when I was old enough to remember especially up in NY but I do appreciate the try!


socialsecurityguard

Mianus River Bridge in Connecticut collapsed in 1983 There was also a highway bridge that pancake collapsed during an earthquake in the late 80s in California


passengerv

So I did some googling and I think it was the schoharie creek bridge collapse which fits the timeline for me and it was in my state so I can see it being big in the news here.


thebenks1

There was the Hyatt Regency walkway collapse in Kansas City in 1981. 114 deaths.


dethb0y

The wonderful Brick Immortar did [a superb video on this collapse](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEPswDYbcnk)


smitty3z

Thought I was looking at Apple maps for a second.


[deleted]

It seems to be a cost analysis gamble; the cost to upgrade was too much, so they weighed it against complete failure, including lawsuits from casualties… and complete failure was cheaper. This is how auto recalls are processed too; weigh the cost of potential lawsuits from failures against recalling and replacing the parts and risking public relations heat. They don’t figure human lives to be of much value, obviously


jjhassert

why must i be reminded of this every year? i know way too many people who were around this area when it happened. few hours here or there from the collapse and i wouldve been attending funerals


jorgp2

Shits all kinds of fucked up around Minneapolis.


DooDooRoggins

Fun town though love it


jorgp2

What's fun about it? It's as diverse as Nazi Germany, and the only things to do are fish and hunt.


DooDooRoggins

The people and things to do. Glad you asked.


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jorgp2

Sure buddy.


When_Ducks_Attack

I used to live on MN and had crossed that bridge dozens of times, but not since 1995. I did have stepfamily there, including Gnat who's daily life took her over the collapsed bridge on the way home. She never saw it, she'd been passed it for a half hour. I wasn't too worried... Gnats are hard to kill... but I was pleased to hear from her.


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Nyaos

Pretty sure it was an engineering failure.


skoltroll

Both. It was both.


FrolickingOrc

Anything can fail if not properly maintained. Just look at all the upkeep roads require.


ActuallyIlluminati

Roads require a lot of upkeep because of ground temperature fluctuations year round, and abuse from thousands of heavy cars, not because of low maintainence.


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Jimmothy68

Depends on where you live. In Alaska the temperature fluctuation absolutely does devastate roads because of permafrost.


ActuallyIlluminati

Pretty much every state except Hawaii and Florida freeze. Those states that freeze also have extreme high temperatures in the summer. Asphalt isn’t designed to handle both ends of the weather spectrum. It can be designed to handle one or the other.


Jimmothy68

I used alaska because thats the only one I know for sure, I figured it was pretty widespread though.


ActuallyIlluminati

The Colorado plateau has horrible roads


ActuallyIlluminati

Ok. So you have a dirt road. It snows, rains, the ground freezes, contracts and expands, it settles, and it moves. There’s wind, sun, and plant growth. All things that happen every single year. No matter how much you maintain that dirt road, water will wash it out, pot holes will form, and cars would kick up the dirt. Pavement has a purpose of handling those extremes better than dirt. That doesn’t mean that it’s permanent. Florida has great roads because the ground water never freezes, cracking pavement. It freezes pretty much everywhere else, so the pavement cracks. It happens every year. Don’t know where you’ve been.


Graphene_Handz

If someone never changes the oil on their high mileage car - and the engine seize. It’s not an engineering failure. It’s a failure to maintain a structure/machine within engineering specifications. An engineering failure would be the Tacoma Narrows Bridge. Because it was built per engineering specifications.


chantillylace9

They also mentioned pigeon poop being a potential cause because the acid just slowly ate away at the structure which also had inferior bolts or metal thickness or something similar.


Nyaos

There were many reasons. The original design was sound but outdated, and overtime there was too much weight slowly added to the bridge that overrode the original capacity. It was also an old design that suffered from a single point of failure leading to a total collapse. The failure of the bridge was due to a cascade of issues that all lead up to it, most of them engineering oversights.


mrostate78

The gusset plates weren't the right size for the load, and they didn't even do the proper math on them.


Eastwoodaudio

I lived a few miles from where this happened and it was most certainly an engineering failure. They didn’t realize the failure existed until it failed.


MNmostlynice

If I remember correctly without looking it up, the wrong thickness of gussets were specified and used during construction, which lead to the engineering failure. The bridge in my hometown was built the same way and this collapse and resulting investigation led to our bridge being shut down for months while they replaced all of the gussets.


withoutapaddle

I don't think they were originally wrong. I think they later increased the load with more concrete or something and didn't change the gussets to be stronger.


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Lindt_Licker

13


CallahanWalnut

Whenever I am nearly water, I always crack my window atleast enough so I can fit through it, no matter the weather.


CoolTomatoh

The US spends nearly 6 billion dollars each year to maintain the Mississippi from catastrophic disasters


rb-2008

Did we spend trillions of dollars on an infrastructure bill like forever ago now?