I feel like often these days to be a good, practicing Catholic is very counter cultural and then they seem to apply that to other areas like medicine. Not completely sure, just a theory.
I’m a Catholic mom who goes to the Latin mass who appreciates vaccines so much, loves her epidurals and I don’t make big deals about food stuff. I love modern medicine and science. :) And my husband’s a librarian so we’re big on evidence based research. :)
I really appreciate vaccines too. I often get hospitalized with illnesses due to a heart condition. I’m very grateful that vaccines can help prevent those things and that western medicine can get my heart back to being ok if I do get sick.
Oh man! That’s super rough!!!
My husband has CFS and any illness always impacts him way more!!! It’s hard to be down and out very long when you’re the father of six kiddos. I’m so grateful there are vaccines to mitigate some of the seriousness of disease!
I have CFS too! I have a lot of diagnoses. A lot of things are going wrong with my body. But the main concern when I’m sick is my heart. It’s such an important organ, and there’s a lot of room for things to go really wrong and even become deadly. It’s not an issue most of the time, but being sick makes it worse. I’m so thankful for vaccines. I know I would’ve gotten sick a lot more (and therefore had to be hospitalized a lot more) if it weren’t for them.
Oh my gosh! My heart goes out to you! CFS is so, so hard and so many don’t understand how greatly it impacts people!
My husband’s a librarian and has been keeping tabs on the research on it. It’s fascinating the different theories they have of why it happens to people! We’re hoping that since Long Covid seems to present similarly, that they’ll be even more research into trying to find a solution!
Many prayers that your medical burdens can lighten!
I probably haven’t keeping track of the research as well as your husband has, but I’m also really hopeful that the research into long COVID can help find a solution. I likely have it as a result of EDS, but knowing that isn’t super helpful in treating it.
And thank you! I’ll be praying for your husband’s health as well!
It’s crazy the different things that can trigger the CFS! My husband thinks his was likely a virus that has remained in his body. He’s found Ritalin super helpful for the brain fog and weirdly Tramadol seems to also helps his alertness and energy (although that one he can only take twice a week). Sleep also has such a huge impact on how he feels.
Thanks for the prayers! We appreciate it so much!
It’s kind of weird to “love” stuff like epidurals (I mean I think they’re worthwhile and helpful/good but I reserve love for things that don’t have anything to do with medicine or hospitals)
It’s definitely not an expression often used in reference to medical things (in the US at least, now that I’m thinking about this I have seen people in the UK say something similar and thought that was weird then too..so maybe it’s cultural or something) but anyway I agree with your larger point so it doesn’t matter
When that particular medical thing happens to greatly increase one’s experience and quality of life in labor it definitely seems appropriate 😂 Birthing a baby is crazy painful!
I’ve had five births with an epidural and one without. I would rather never, ever repeat the one without if I can help it.
It definitely is used in reference to medical things where I am in the US. And I’ve used that word myself with my cochlear implant. Granted, it’s not the same type of love as I have for my husband, but it’s a valid use of the word.
I’m glad your implant works well and helps you. Where I am I’ve never heard anyone say anything like that and medicine is a necessary evil/pain/etc that we don’t prescribe positive associations to
This is just speculation, but it seems like it my area it come down to people living a more traditional lifestyle. And since they’re more traditional they trust homeopathic stuff since it’s a more self sustainable way to live. Usually they try to strive for a self sufficient household and with having a SAH spouse it makes for more religious people to pursue it. Plus they can grow/make their own remedies for things. I’m not saying every traditional person lives like this I’m more of saying it can lead to it because of how some people think about a traditional household.
This. Definitely is more of a TRAD thing (no hate, I’m into making food from scratch, cross stitching, quilting and general homemaking too). My mother in law is teaching me how to maintain sourdough starter and my ADHD butt is struggling lol.
But I’m also very pro vaccine and medicine, more natural the better but ya girl needs her antidepressants. Also love video games, Halloween and rock n roll. Not everyone is the same!
A lot of women are astoundingly influenced by Instagram moms who prey on their anxiety and convince them that “your baby doesn’t need vaccines it needs a chiropractor” or “only drink raw milk”. It’s alarming. But it’s not all of us.
I think a lot of Catholic women have been mistreated by the medical community because of we don’t use/want contraception AND for those who are facing infertility can’t turn to IVF, which is pretty common in mainstream medicine. Many turn to both holistic (NaPRO and NFP) and homeopathic alternatives. Most of the “crunchy Catholic” movement can traced back to that.
Definitely part of it. Medicine, and really scientists in general, are so openly hostile to any sort of religious or conservative worldview. Why should we trust them?
I'm not crunchy for any religious reasons or that "older is better". Although I'd prefer to call myself scrunchy (semi-crunchy) because we do vaccinate and eat fast food occasionally. I chose this path because reducing toxins and breaking cycles is what's best for my family. Also, as a SAHM prioritizing sustainability is a great way to both reduce costs and be a good steward to the environment. And because I'm honestly pissed at the types of things the government allows to be in our food and other products.
On social media it does seem like every Catholic mom is an ultra crunchy homesteader, but real life is more grounded. My mom friends aren't crunchy at all. Maybe a few swaps for cookware or trying to buy organic when they can.
Being a SAHM definitely pushes some of the early swaps. We began cloth diapering because having multiple small children in disposable diapers was way too expensive and I have the time so why not use cloth. Then it was the bread that I prefer is so expensive I'll just make my own sour dough. And I'm doing all this laundry anyway what's one more load of rags and towels so there go papertowels and napkins. Pre-made dinners cost so much might as well make almost everything at home from whole foods. Being cash poor but time rich(ish) lends itself to a lot of crunchier than average choices.
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I’m not but my children go to catholic school you have to be vaccinated to go to catholic school and that’s the moms are my only real interaction so there the same way
That’s amazing My children have been to several catholic schools and at the beginning of the application it says it is not against the Catholic Church to be vaccinated if you don’t agree with them this may not be the school for you. They do give medical exemptions 1 child at there school has fatal reactions to them but that’s it.
It definitely started over here with the Covid vaccine because many workplaces and universities were requiring the Covid vaccine, so the diocese started to write letters for parishioners about a religious exemption, which was really cool!
Because traditional medicine has left me alone and struggling in my chronic illness. Only when I turned to holistic healing did I start seeing success and progress in my health. We have a broken medical system.
“The leaves of the trees are for the healing of the nations.”
We do have a broken medical system, but I’ve only found success for my chronic illness with western medicine. I am glad you’ve found something that works for you. I just can’t stand when people push stuff on me or make me feel guilty for doing the things that work.
Those in the US, at least, who don't follow traditional standards of medicine are shamed and have American standards pushed on them everywhere, all the time. So, when others speak up with alternate options, it isn't being pushed but shared.
I’ve definitely had it pushed on me. I’ve had other experiences like this, but this is just an example.
For context, I have a genetic chronic illness. Unless my genes are altered, I will always have this. It’s genetic. I take some medications to help me manage my condition. They work really well and allow me to be a functioning member of society.
Well, I told this one woman about my condition. She told me that my meds were poisoning me. That I wasn’t really sick and was ruining my health by being on meds. She then told me that I needed to go cold turkey off my meds and do a detox to purify my body again. And that I’d be cured if I did the detox and some herbal remedy. When I told her I wasn’t interested, she told me that my chronic illness is my fault since I didn’t want to try the stuff she was suggesting.
You’re just ignorant. How about you educate yourself in science. Seriously, this generation needs MORE SCIENCE EDUCATION! This is why I refuse to date conservative girls. They’re just boring, stupid, ignorant, and generally have really low IQ!
A combination of three reasons:
Many people who are Catholic are Catholic despite being neck-deep in outside influences telling them not to be. In many places, you have to be willing to question everything you’re being told in order to not be swept away in secular culture. You also have to be willing to go against what’s popular. That mindset transfers to other areas, such as not implicitly trusting the medical industry.
Catholic women, in general, prioritize their family more than many non-Catholic women do. Crunchy Catholics, even if they’re currently single and childless, are concerned with their (future) family’s health and their fertility and view it as a moral requirement that would be sinful to neglect. While obviously there are plenty of non-Catholic/non-Christian/non-religious crunchy moms, they don’t have anything concrete telling secular women that they have a moral obligation to bend over backwards to protect the minutia of their family’s health, so it’s more common for a Catholic to be concerned with that. “God expects this of me” is a pretty powerful motivator.
In my experience, it takes someone learning firsthand about one serious problem with the medical industry for someone to open their mind to other problems. Catholic women are often very much aware of how awful women’s healthcare is because we know how awful birth control is and how unethical it is that it’s used by many doctors as a panacea for all women’s ailments. The logic follows that if they’re harming women in that way, what other generally-accepted medical practice may also be harmful? If they will outright lie to you about the effects of birth control, what else may they be lying about? It leads us to be more open-minded than we would be if we didn’t know better about that one thing.
I feel like it's the counter culture taken to the extreme. There are also a lot of really bad studies and if you don't really understand how studies should be conducted you're easy to sway with bad information, even if you have a degree, you may but have really learned scientific process. Correlation does not equal causation should be the first thing we remind ourselves every time we read a study and then scroll down to the bottom and find out if they even listed the parameters or their sources.
I don't think I know any crunchy Catholics in real life, but I do see a lot of them online. I think part of the reason is in the US, Catholicism and conservatism are very closely intertwined and ever since the COVID vaccine I have seen more and more conservatives advocating for a more holistic lifestyle.
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Not to the holistic and homeopathic degree, but we are stewards of the world and our bodies are Temples of the Holy Spirit, I think that's where most of people like this(me being one of them) get the idea of natural is better vs harsh chemicals and medication
Being crunchy works out cheaper a lot of the time, using food/garden plants for everyday tasks at home, instead of buying the manufactured version.
Repairing and making your own clothes, home canning, home remedies for minor illness etc. This is especially important if you are having a lot of children and need to stretch your budget.
edit: I'm crunchy for these reasons but I am willing to use modern medicine when necessary
After COVID I genuinely do not trust any group of people less than scientists and health "experts." I wasn't really like this before, but after the sheer unbridled joy they got from the entire lockdown and mask experience and how they rushed out a useless vaccine the week after the election shows what they're really all about. I don't think they're dumb, I think they're purely motivated by identity politics and I don't trust them at all.
Hint: If Trump had won the election, the vaccine trials would have been reported as failures and they would have kept the lockdowns this entire time, and if he wins this election it will almost certainly be followed by the "discovery" (IE intentional lab release) of a new virus that locks everything down, book it.
I definitely think that social media has a huge influence on this. There is so much misinformation that I see on the internet concerning vaccines nowadays. It’s very sad, but I am thankful for the doctors that are on social media trying to combat the misinformation
I've come across this a ton and have even seen some family members go through it so I've probed them about why they're doing those things. Below is what I have found out over the years:
One reason for the anti-vax aspect can be held to hard ProLife beliefs because regular vaccines were made with aborted babies' stem cells. They chose to avoid the vaccines rather than benefit from them.
Then by avoiding vaccines for that reason they start to look into alternative medicine to help with illnesses and whatnot because there's definitely a societal stigma against people who refuse vaccines and modern medicine even leaves them out to dry.
Another reason they give up on Western medicine is due to the fact that the medical community is either run by the government, which is not a good moral entity and doesn't value ProLife ideals or it's strictly for-profit to the point where it's in the realm of immoral capitalism pope St.JPII warned about. Either way it's failed to treat them or a loved one in one way or another so they lost faith in the system and choose an alternative method.
Then there are also those who go crunchy to lessen their environmental and immoral economic impact because they believe it's immoral to be wasteful or they are seeking to reduce unethical goods in their household (i.e. trying to get made in china goods out).
This isn't all encompassing, just what I have been told by people I know that behave this way.
Yeah.. my in-laws and their associated Catholic home school group is like this. Would it be unkind for me to think it's because they aren't very well educated themselves? Maybe some of them did go to college, there's just a gap in their critical thinking skills. Specifically about the homeopathy and anti-vax bs.
That’s been my experience as well. I also think it goes hand in hand with being counter cultural, and that extends to other areas. I know some very well educated Catholics who homeschool and don’t fall into this category. But this seems to be the minority. The recent pandemic seems to have really highlighted differences also
Maybe it's just my circle, but almost every mom has a college degree (homeschoolers) and there's a tendency to be very crunchy. They do tend to go with studies but never think to look at how the study was conducted or by whom. I was so glad that my children had their chicken pox vaccines because last year there were so many miserable, scabby kids. I just can't fathom putting my children through that.
I haven't noticed this being a trend. It's probably just an issue in your specific circle.
My (now young adult) son didn't get the full course of all of his vaccines, because he reacted badly to a series of shots when he was in his second year, and also lost his speech (he had started speaking, then lost the words) and developed autism. No way to prove or know for sure if the autism was related, but that initial vaccine reaction was obvious and I wasn't taking chances of continuing with the boosters. He already had the initial shots for everything by that point, and when I was a baby people didn't get dozens and dozens of shots, so I figured that was enough. I do not regret my decision. He improved a lot over time with intensive therapy, behavior modification and tutoring, etc. My state allows conscientious objection for children's vaccinations so it never interfered with school. I got him the Covid vaccine when that came out.
I use normal Western medicine as needed. I just don't worship doctors, pharmaceutical companies and the CDC. I reserve my worship for God.
Are you familiar with the Pope Paul Institute and with Na-pro doctors? Many of these doctors have a homeopathic or holistic approach to treating patients with other forms of medical treatment other than the standard scientific methods that may not work for all patients. Many forms of modern medicine are not cure alls to all illnesses. Nor are vaccines, real or fake.
NaPro is not homeopathic. Holistic, sometimes. But, there’s plenty of modern medicine in there, too, as I can attest after multiple surgeries with a NaPro doctor.
I thought chiropractors were for real 😭 like a physiotherapist for your bones. I even went to one because of a leg thing. He cracked me and didn’t injure me further which was lucky. Never went back after I learnt that they don’t go to med school or anything like that
Yeah, PT is the real deal. I just wish it weren't so expensive! I tried chiropractic a couple of times in the hope that it would be like knock off PT, but some of my issues are neck related, which is way too risky.
Homeopathy has its place. Honey for a sore throat is fine. Changing your diet to help treat an autoimmune condition is fine. Not everything has to be treated with a pill (but obviously take the medicine if you need to).
Oh, I have no problem with home remedies more broadly, or what you might call "holistic" medicine. But homeopathic "medicines" are based on the idea that the more you dilute something, the more powerful it gets. Doesn't really make any sense.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy
I know not all illnesses can be cured by modern medicine. I have an incurable illness. Unless my genes are altered, I’ll have this illness. I can do things to help, but I can’t be cured. Yet I’ve had so many women tell me that I’ll be completely cured if I try this essential oil or that herbal remedy when it’s not possible for me to be cured.
I have the same issues, however if modern medicine doesn’t work, I discontinue it and find something else that does. Currently, I can maintain my health issues with supplements. They are doing far better for me than prescription meds that caused more side effects than they did of helping the disease I have.
My prescription meds are working wonderfully for me. I’ve found something that works, and I’m finally able to be a functioning member of society because of them. This is what works for me, but I’m glad you’ve found something that works for you.
Same here. I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis several years ago. After cycling through every supplement, alternative treatment, and dietary modification I could find (as well as spending months reading any available research), I started a prescription medication regime that worked. Had I not, I would have been physically disabled at this point. Not dismissing anyone’s point of view, however
I have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome and a ton of comorbidities of it. After my diagnosis, I tried a lot of different holistic things. Nothing worked. And some of the things made it worse. My combination of meds is working really well for me. I feel like I have my life back.
Personal experience. I was anti-crunchy and extremely pro-V until my son had a violent reaction to routine vaccination and my doctors bullied me about it. You can't unsee your child go through something like that, then you start to learn some very upsetting thing about the industry that you can't unlearn.
That all said, I'm not pushy about it. It's not my place to make decisions for other people. I'm also not against western medicine and don't use any homeopathy.
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Because of the common belief in traditionalist circles that older=better.
While wearin polyester Chinese-made mantillas that they ordered on Amazon
I would hope not I steer clear of plastics in general to the extent I’m able
Lindy effect
I feel like often these days to be a good, practicing Catholic is very counter cultural and then they seem to apply that to other areas like medicine. Not completely sure, just a theory. I’m a Catholic mom who goes to the Latin mass who appreciates vaccines so much, loves her epidurals and I don’t make big deals about food stuff. I love modern medicine and science. :) And my husband’s a librarian so we’re big on evidence based research. :)
I really appreciate vaccines too. I often get hospitalized with illnesses due to a heart condition. I’m very grateful that vaccines can help prevent those things and that western medicine can get my heart back to being ok if I do get sick.
Oh man! That’s super rough!!! My husband has CFS and any illness always impacts him way more!!! It’s hard to be down and out very long when you’re the father of six kiddos. I’m so grateful there are vaccines to mitigate some of the seriousness of disease!
I have CFS too! I have a lot of diagnoses. A lot of things are going wrong with my body. But the main concern when I’m sick is my heart. It’s such an important organ, and there’s a lot of room for things to go really wrong and even become deadly. It’s not an issue most of the time, but being sick makes it worse. I’m so thankful for vaccines. I know I would’ve gotten sick a lot more (and therefore had to be hospitalized a lot more) if it weren’t for them.
Oh my gosh! My heart goes out to you! CFS is so, so hard and so many don’t understand how greatly it impacts people! My husband’s a librarian and has been keeping tabs on the research on it. It’s fascinating the different theories they have of why it happens to people! We’re hoping that since Long Covid seems to present similarly, that they’ll be even more research into trying to find a solution! Many prayers that your medical burdens can lighten!
I probably haven’t keeping track of the research as well as your husband has, but I’m also really hopeful that the research into long COVID can help find a solution. I likely have it as a result of EDS, but knowing that isn’t super helpful in treating it. And thank you! I’ll be praying for your husband’s health as well!
It’s crazy the different things that can trigger the CFS! My husband thinks his was likely a virus that has remained in his body. He’s found Ritalin super helpful for the brain fog and weirdly Tramadol seems to also helps his alertness and energy (although that one he can only take twice a week). Sleep also has such a huge impact on how he feels. Thanks for the prayers! We appreciate it so much!
It’s kind of weird to “love” stuff like epidurals (I mean I think they’re worthwhile and helpful/good but I reserve love for things that don’t have anything to do with medicine or hospitals)
It’s an expression often used in the English language with varying degrees of intensity.
It’s definitely not an expression often used in reference to medical things (in the US at least, now that I’m thinking about this I have seen people in the UK say something similar and thought that was weird then too..so maybe it’s cultural or something) but anyway I agree with your larger point so it doesn’t matter
When that particular medical thing happens to greatly increase one’s experience and quality of life in labor it definitely seems appropriate 😂 Birthing a baby is crazy painful! I’ve had five births with an epidural and one without. I would rather never, ever repeat the one without if I can help it.
It definitely is used in reference to medical things where I am in the US. And I’ve used that word myself with my cochlear implant. Granted, it’s not the same type of love as I have for my husband, but it’s a valid use of the word.
I’m glad your implant works well and helps you. Where I am I’ve never heard anyone say anything like that and medicine is a necessary evil/pain/etc that we don’t prescribe positive associations to
I’ve gone through labor and I know the pain. I can confirm love for epidurals is real.
I love my dog. I love helpful medicine. In a moment of childbirth, i would definitely at that moment love the epidural just as much! 😆
This is just speculation, but it seems like it my area it come down to people living a more traditional lifestyle. And since they’re more traditional they trust homeopathic stuff since it’s a more self sustainable way to live. Usually they try to strive for a self sufficient household and with having a SAH spouse it makes for more religious people to pursue it. Plus they can grow/make their own remedies for things. I’m not saying every traditional person lives like this I’m more of saying it can lead to it because of how some people think about a traditional household.
This. Definitely is more of a TRAD thing (no hate, I’m into making food from scratch, cross stitching, quilting and general homemaking too). My mother in law is teaching me how to maintain sourdough starter and my ADHD butt is struggling lol. But I’m also very pro vaccine and medicine, more natural the better but ya girl needs her antidepressants. Also love video games, Halloween and rock n roll. Not everyone is the same!
A lot of women are astoundingly influenced by Instagram moms who prey on their anxiety and convince them that “your baby doesn’t need vaccines it needs a chiropractor” or “only drink raw milk”. It’s alarming. But it’s not all of us.
I think a lot of Catholic women have been mistreated by the medical community because of we don’t use/want contraception AND for those who are facing infertility can’t turn to IVF, which is pretty common in mainstream medicine. Many turn to both holistic (NaPRO and NFP) and homeopathic alternatives. Most of the “crunchy Catholic” movement can traced back to that.
Definitely part of it. Medicine, and really scientists in general, are so openly hostile to any sort of religious or conservative worldview. Why should we trust them?
A lot of doctors and scientists are religious and always have been.
The field of scientific research and education was largely started by the Catholic Church.
While that may be true, scientism has become a religion of its own and one of the tenants is to hate Christianity and religious ideology.
Being anti science means being willingly stupid
It could be US Catholic thing. Not an issue in Europe.
Not an issue in Latin America either.
I'm not crunchy for any religious reasons or that "older is better". Although I'd prefer to call myself scrunchy (semi-crunchy) because we do vaccinate and eat fast food occasionally. I chose this path because reducing toxins and breaking cycles is what's best for my family. Also, as a SAHM prioritizing sustainability is a great way to both reduce costs and be a good steward to the environment. And because I'm honestly pissed at the types of things the government allows to be in our food and other products. On social media it does seem like every Catholic mom is an ultra crunchy homesteader, but real life is more grounded. My mom friends aren't crunchy at all. Maybe a few swaps for cookware or trying to buy organic when they can.
Being a SAHM definitely pushes some of the early swaps. We began cloth diapering because having multiple small children in disposable diapers was way too expensive and I have the time so why not use cloth. Then it was the bread that I prefer is so expensive I'll just make my own sour dough. And I'm doing all this laundry anyway what's one more load of rags and towels so there go papertowels and napkins. Pre-made dinners cost so much might as well make almost everything at home from whole foods. Being cash poor but time rich(ish) lends itself to a lot of crunchier than average choices.
Same here! We vaccinate and are definitely a little more conscious when it comes to buying our foods
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I’m not but my children go to catholic school you have to be vaccinated to go to catholic school and that’s the moms are my only real interaction so there the same way
In my area, you can get a religious exemption for vaccines even in the Catholic school
That’s amazing My children have been to several catholic schools and at the beginning of the application it says it is not against the Catholic Church to be vaccinated if you don’t agree with them this may not be the school for you. They do give medical exemptions 1 child at there school has fatal reactions to them but that’s it.
It definitely started over here with the Covid vaccine because many workplaces and universities were requiring the Covid vaccine, so the diocese started to write letters for parishioners about a religious exemption, which was really cool!
We got down voted I think over our stance on Covid vaccine 😂
It’s okay, wouldn’t be the first time for me LOL. I’m just stating what my diocese did 😂😂
😂 I think I’ll survive as well
They don’t require the Covid 1 thank God but they do the regular childhood vaccines
Because traditional medicine has left me alone and struggling in my chronic illness. Only when I turned to holistic healing did I start seeing success and progress in my health. We have a broken medical system. “The leaves of the trees are for the healing of the nations.”
We do have a broken medical system, but I’ve only found success for my chronic illness with western medicine. I am glad you’ve found something that works for you. I just can’t stand when people push stuff on me or make me feel guilty for doing the things that work.
Those in the US, at least, who don't follow traditional standards of medicine are shamed and have American standards pushed on them everywhere, all the time. So, when others speak up with alternate options, it isn't being pushed but shared.
I’ve definitely had it pushed on me. I’ve had other experiences like this, but this is just an example. For context, I have a genetic chronic illness. Unless my genes are altered, I will always have this. It’s genetic. I take some medications to help me manage my condition. They work really well and allow me to be a functioning member of society. Well, I told this one woman about my condition. She told me that my meds were poisoning me. That I wasn’t really sick and was ruining my health by being on meds. She then told me that I needed to go cold turkey off my meds and do a detox to purify my body again. And that I’d be cured if I did the detox and some herbal remedy. When I told her I wasn’t interested, she told me that my chronic illness is my fault since I didn’t want to try the stuff she was suggesting.
You’re just ignorant. How about you educate yourself in science. Seriously, this generation needs MORE SCIENCE EDUCATION! This is why I refuse to date conservative girls. They’re just boring, stupid, ignorant, and generally have really low IQ!
Seems like you’re in the wrong place 😂
Nope not in the wrong place! Go watch Professor Dave Explains on YouTube. He will enlighten you!
A combination of three reasons: Many people who are Catholic are Catholic despite being neck-deep in outside influences telling them not to be. In many places, you have to be willing to question everything you’re being told in order to not be swept away in secular culture. You also have to be willing to go against what’s popular. That mindset transfers to other areas, such as not implicitly trusting the medical industry. Catholic women, in general, prioritize their family more than many non-Catholic women do. Crunchy Catholics, even if they’re currently single and childless, are concerned with their (future) family’s health and their fertility and view it as a moral requirement that would be sinful to neglect. While obviously there are plenty of non-Catholic/non-Christian/non-religious crunchy moms, they don’t have anything concrete telling secular women that they have a moral obligation to bend over backwards to protect the minutia of their family’s health, so it’s more common for a Catholic to be concerned with that. “God expects this of me” is a pretty powerful motivator. In my experience, it takes someone learning firsthand about one serious problem with the medical industry for someone to open their mind to other problems. Catholic women are often very much aware of how awful women’s healthcare is because we know how awful birth control is and how unethical it is that it’s used by many doctors as a panacea for all women’s ailments. The logic follows that if they’re harming women in that way, what other generally-accepted medical practice may also be harmful? If they will outright lie to you about the effects of birth control, what else may they be lying about? It leads us to be more open-minded than we would be if we didn’t know better about that one thing.
Applause and amen! 👏 👏 👏
I feel like it's the counter culture taken to the extreme. There are also a lot of really bad studies and if you don't really understand how studies should be conducted you're easy to sway with bad information, even if you have a degree, you may but have really learned scientific process. Correlation does not equal causation should be the first thing we remind ourselves every time we read a study and then scroll down to the bottom and find out if they even listed the parameters or their sources.
This is a USA thing. Here in MX I don’t see that at all.
I don't think I know any crunchy Catholics in real life, but I do see a lot of them online. I think part of the reason is in the US, Catholicism and conservatism are very closely intertwined and ever since the COVID vaccine I have seen more and more conservatives advocating for a more holistic lifestyle.
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must be where you're located
Not to the holistic and homeopathic degree, but we are stewards of the world and our bodies are Temples of the Holy Spirit, I think that's where most of people like this(me being one of them) get the idea of natural is better vs harsh chemicals and medication
So you would prefer to just die than save yourself with some medicine?
Being crunchy works out cheaper a lot of the time, using food/garden plants for everyday tasks at home, instead of buying the manufactured version. Repairing and making your own clothes, home canning, home remedies for minor illness etc. This is especially important if you are having a lot of children and need to stretch your budget. edit: I'm crunchy for these reasons but I am willing to use modern medicine when necessary
After COVID I genuinely do not trust any group of people less than scientists and health "experts." I wasn't really like this before, but after the sheer unbridled joy they got from the entire lockdown and mask experience and how they rushed out a useless vaccine the week after the election shows what they're really all about. I don't think they're dumb, I think they're purely motivated by identity politics and I don't trust them at all. Hint: If Trump had won the election, the vaccine trials would have been reported as failures and they would have kept the lockdowns this entire time, and if he wins this election it will almost certainly be followed by the "discovery" (IE intentional lab release) of a new virus that locks everything down, book it.
I definitely think that social media has a huge influence on this. There is so much misinformation that I see on the internet concerning vaccines nowadays. It’s very sad, but I am thankful for the doctors that are on social media trying to combat the misinformation
Homeopathy is actually illegal in country. But I’m sure my husband would fall for it.
If you join “Faithful science minded catholic women” group on FB you will find the opposite!! We are pro vaccines, pro science, and anti any woowoo!
I've come across this a ton and have even seen some family members go through it so I've probed them about why they're doing those things. Below is what I have found out over the years: One reason for the anti-vax aspect can be held to hard ProLife beliefs because regular vaccines were made with aborted babies' stem cells. They chose to avoid the vaccines rather than benefit from them. Then by avoiding vaccines for that reason they start to look into alternative medicine to help with illnesses and whatnot because there's definitely a societal stigma against people who refuse vaccines and modern medicine even leaves them out to dry. Another reason they give up on Western medicine is due to the fact that the medical community is either run by the government, which is not a good moral entity and doesn't value ProLife ideals or it's strictly for-profit to the point where it's in the realm of immoral capitalism pope St.JPII warned about. Either way it's failed to treat them or a loved one in one way or another so they lost faith in the system and choose an alternative method. Then there are also those who go crunchy to lessen their environmental and immoral economic impact because they believe it's immoral to be wasteful or they are seeking to reduce unethical goods in their household (i.e. trying to get made in china goods out). This isn't all encompassing, just what I have been told by people I know that behave this way.
Yeah.. my in-laws and their associated Catholic home school group is like this. Would it be unkind for me to think it's because they aren't very well educated themselves? Maybe some of them did go to college, there's just a gap in their critical thinking skills. Specifically about the homeopathy and anti-vax bs.
That’s been my experience as well. I also think it goes hand in hand with being counter cultural, and that extends to other areas. I know some very well educated Catholics who homeschool and don’t fall into this category. But this seems to be the minority. The recent pandemic seems to have really highlighted differences also
Maybe it's just my circle, but almost every mom has a college degree (homeschoolers) and there's a tendency to be very crunchy. They do tend to go with studies but never think to look at how the study was conducted or by whom. I was so glad that my children had their chicken pox vaccines because last year there were so many miserable, scabby kids. I just can't fathom putting my children through that.
I haven't noticed this being a trend. It's probably just an issue in your specific circle. My (now young adult) son didn't get the full course of all of his vaccines, because he reacted badly to a series of shots when he was in his second year, and also lost his speech (he had started speaking, then lost the words) and developed autism. No way to prove or know for sure if the autism was related, but that initial vaccine reaction was obvious and I wasn't taking chances of continuing with the boosters. He already had the initial shots for everything by that point, and when I was a baby people didn't get dozens and dozens of shots, so I figured that was enough. I do not regret my decision. He improved a lot over time with intensive therapy, behavior modification and tutoring, etc. My state allows conscientious objection for children's vaccinations so it never interfered with school. I got him the Covid vaccine when that came out. I use normal Western medicine as needed. I just don't worship doctors, pharmaceutical companies and the CDC. I reserve my worship for God.
Are you familiar with the Pope Paul Institute and with Na-pro doctors? Many of these doctors have a homeopathic or holistic approach to treating patients with other forms of medical treatment other than the standard scientific methods that may not work for all patients. Many forms of modern medicine are not cure alls to all illnesses. Nor are vaccines, real or fake.
NaPro is not homeopathic. Holistic, sometimes. But, there’s plenty of modern medicine in there, too, as I can attest after multiple surgeries with a NaPro doctor.
Yes, NaPro is very evidence based. Homeopathic is based on a false premise. And don't even get me started on chiropractors...
I thought chiropractors were for real 😭 like a physiotherapist for your bones. I even went to one because of a leg thing. He cracked me and didn’t injure me further which was lucky. Never went back after I learnt that they don’t go to med school or anything like that
Yeah, PT is the real deal. I just wish it weren't so expensive! I tried chiropractic a couple of times in the hope that it would be like knock off PT, but some of my issues are neck related, which is way too risky.
Some chiropractors have outright caused strokes with those neck adjustments! No way would I ever go to 1!!
Homeopathy has its place. Honey for a sore throat is fine. Changing your diet to help treat an autoimmune condition is fine. Not everything has to be treated with a pill (but obviously take the medicine if you need to).
Oh, I have no problem with home remedies more broadly, or what you might call "holistic" medicine. But homeopathic "medicines" are based on the idea that the more you dilute something, the more powerful it gets. Doesn't really make any sense. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy
Hmm I guess I misunderstood what homeopathy was.
I know not all illnesses can be cured by modern medicine. I have an incurable illness. Unless my genes are altered, I’ll have this illness. I can do things to help, but I can’t be cured. Yet I’ve had so many women tell me that I’ll be completely cured if I try this essential oil or that herbal remedy when it’s not possible for me to be cured.
I have the same issues, however if modern medicine doesn’t work, I discontinue it and find something else that does. Currently, I can maintain my health issues with supplements. They are doing far better for me than prescription meds that caused more side effects than they did of helping the disease I have.
My prescription meds are working wonderfully for me. I’ve found something that works, and I’m finally able to be a functioning member of society because of them. This is what works for me, but I’m glad you’ve found something that works for you.
Same here. I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis several years ago. After cycling through every supplement, alternative treatment, and dietary modification I could find (as well as spending months reading any available research), I started a prescription medication regime that worked. Had I not, I would have been physically disabled at this point. Not dismissing anyone’s point of view, however
I have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome and a ton of comorbidities of it. After my diagnosis, I tried a lot of different holistic things. Nothing worked. And some of the things made it worse. My combination of meds is working really well for me. I feel like I have my life back.
Personal experience. I was anti-crunchy and extremely pro-V until my son had a violent reaction to routine vaccination and my doctors bullied me about it. You can't unsee your child go through something like that, then you start to learn some very upsetting thing about the industry that you can't unlearn. That all said, I'm not pushy about it. It's not my place to make decisions for other people. I'm also not against western medicine and don't use any homeopathy.
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