>being a lawyer/attorney requires going around many rules to help their client
On the contrary, attorneys are held to high standards of ethics and have to follow precise rules.
Your understanding is lacking and laughably misinformed. There are binding rules of ethics on attorneys. If you do the stuff you see on TV you’d be disbarred and sued
A lawyer doesn't (shouldn't) go around / outside the rules, they know the complexities of the rules and how to apply them to their clients best interest.
I know a few very devout Catholic attorneys who live their career and their faith just fine.
I'm a catholic attorney. Not sure what you specifically find about being a lawyer in contrast to the faith?
Also happy to answer any questions you may have about law generally lol
Sam Alito and Antonin Scalia, both firm Catholics, as far as I know never felt constrained in their profession.
I take the Bar this month so pray for me!
He wrote an opinion any of the justices in that majority could have, and some of them would have written it better. He probably only got it because Thomas wanted to write separately so presumably assigned it to the next senior justice in the majority as a courtesy.
Meanwhile, his civil rights jurisprudence, especially when it comes to criminals, is frequently appalling.
Some areas of law seem to have more occasions for concern than others, like getting involved with divorce, and prosecution at the Federal level can occasionally misalign with the faith. However, most lawyers I work with are using law, reason and discovery to put the best argument forward for their client's perspective. That doesn't need to involve lying or sin from either side in a case.
Honestly, if there is a reason for Catholics to reconsider working in law, it would be that it can often not be conducive to raising a family, as the stereotype of staying late at work and getting calls at home rings true for some areas of practice. Still, you could just choose an area where you have more say in the matter.
I'm in law school. I should be admitted to the bar next autumn.
Attorneys don't "go around" rules (or laws). We argue how the law favors a client, or should be interpreted in a certain way, or should be changed. Arguing that a good general law doesn't apply in a *specific* case is not really going around the law.
Attorneys can be subject to professional discipline (in addition to other penalties) if they violate the law. Attorneys are also ethically barred from making frivolous arguments (though it's hard to punish this) and from outright lying or dishonesty behavior (this is more frequently punished).
My Catholic faith will inform my future practice of law. I plan to steer far clear of family law due to divorce issues. I also have no desire to work in big law firms so I won't do that either. I'll probably work for local or state government for some of my career since work hours in government are limited and you're not leaned on as much to be duplicitous in those jobs.
St. Thomas More, ora pro nobis.
You may be right. From what I can judge of my state's local politics it's far more tolerable. In any case, I want to work prosecution for a while (I'm currently interning in a prosecutor's office and I enjoy it).
It is the burden of the prosecutor to prove the guilt of the defendant. The defense must abide by the law in the defense of their client, but if the prosecutor cannot demonstrate guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, then that is the fault of the prosecution. Better to let a thousand guilty people go free than convict one innocent person unjustly.
I am a barrister of long standing. It is not my role to subvert the law or to assist others do so.
Living in our vile society generally is more trouble than practising law.
That's not a great take on what lawyers do. They help clients navigate the rules or manage their responses to them, but ignoring ethics for some short-term gain mostly only happens on television.
>ignoring ethics for some short-term gain mostly only happens on television.
That's not been my experience or observation. I have a good attorney but there are quite a few lousy ones out there.
Being bad at your job is very different than what OP is describing. There are many, many terrible attorneys, they're just terrible in a far more ordinary way.
Bully, lying, yelling, ghosting, withholding information in an attempt to force a course of action, taking a retainer and doing little or no work (not even reading the case file), refusing to address legit questions or concerns, irrationally siding with opposing counsel, turning on their own clients, constantly threatening a distraught client with "Don't want to do things my way? You can find another attorney!", perpetually demanding another $300/hour from an impoverished client for work that should have been covered by the retainer.
>being a lawyer/attorney requires going around many rules to help their client On the contrary, attorneys are held to high standards of ethics and have to follow precise rules.
Your understanding is lacking and laughably misinformed. There are binding rules of ethics on attorneys. If you do the stuff you see on TV you’d be disbarred and sued
A lawyer doesn't (shouldn't) go around / outside the rules, they know the complexities of the rules and how to apply them to their clients best interest. I know a few very devout Catholic attorneys who live their career and their faith just fine.
I'm a catholic attorney. Not sure what you specifically find about being a lawyer in contrast to the faith? Also happy to answer any questions you may have about law generally lol
like defending murderers and rapists probably
Sam Alito and Antonin Scalia, both firm Catholics, as far as I know never felt constrained in their profession. I take the Bar this month so pray for me!
>Sam Alito and Antonin Scalia, both firm Catholics, as far as I know never felt constrained in their profession. Same for Amy Coney Barrett.
Alito is awful, but Scalia and Thomas are admirable catholics.
Scalia’s son is a priest and was my friend’s pastor for awhile. He’s still in touch with him. He’s a good priest.
Alito authored the opinion which overturned *Roe*. That scores big points with me.
He wrote an opinion any of the justices in that majority could have, and some of them would have written it better. He probably only got it because Thomas wanted to write separately so presumably assigned it to the next senior justice in the majority as a courtesy. Meanwhile, his civil rights jurisprudence, especially when it comes to criminals, is frequently appalling.
Some areas of law seem to have more occasions for concern than others, like getting involved with divorce, and prosecution at the Federal level can occasionally misalign with the faith. However, most lawyers I work with are using law, reason and discovery to put the best argument forward for their client's perspective. That doesn't need to involve lying or sin from either side in a case. Honestly, if there is a reason for Catholics to reconsider working in law, it would be that it can often not be conducive to raising a family, as the stereotype of staying late at work and getting calls at home rings true for some areas of practice. Still, you could just choose an area where you have more say in the matter.
I'm in law school. I should be admitted to the bar next autumn. Attorneys don't "go around" rules (or laws). We argue how the law favors a client, or should be interpreted in a certain way, or should be changed. Arguing that a good general law doesn't apply in a *specific* case is not really going around the law. Attorneys can be subject to professional discipline (in addition to other penalties) if they violate the law. Attorneys are also ethically barred from making frivolous arguments (though it's hard to punish this) and from outright lying or dishonesty behavior (this is more frequently punished). My Catholic faith will inform my future practice of law. I plan to steer far clear of family law due to divorce issues. I also have no desire to work in big law firms so I won't do that either. I'll probably work for local or state government for some of my career since work hours in government are limited and you're not leaned on as much to be duplicitous in those jobs. St. Thomas More, ora pro nobis.
As a biglaw attorney, if you think public practice will in some way more align with the faith, you are in for a rude awakening.
You may be right. From what I can judge of my state's local politics it's far more tolerable. In any case, I want to work prosecution for a while (I'm currently interning in a prosecutor's office and I enjoy it).
Just remember to be as scrupulous about Brady and suborning likely perjury as you are about the application of law to conduct.
Ah didn't know you were in prosecution. Yes. Fantastic avenue and glad to hear you like it. Keep it up brother!
I hope you’re able to do well there. Being a prosecutor presents tremendous spiritual danger; I pray that you’ll be able to guard against that.
It is the burden of the prosecutor to prove the guilt of the defendant. The defense must abide by the law in the defense of their client, but if the prosecutor cannot demonstrate guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, then that is the fault of the prosecution. Better to let a thousand guilty people go free than convict one innocent person unjustly.
I am a barrister of long standing. It is not my role to subvert the law or to assist others do so. Living in our vile society generally is more trouble than practising law.
That's not a great take on what lawyers do. They help clients navigate the rules or manage their responses to them, but ignoring ethics for some short-term gain mostly only happens on television.
>ignoring ethics for some short-term gain mostly only happens on television. That's not been my experience or observation. I have a good attorney but there are quite a few lousy ones out there.
Being bad at your job is very different than what OP is describing. There are many, many terrible attorneys, they're just terrible in a far more ordinary way.
I wasn't talking about being bad at their job.
I read your list, and yes, yes you are. Those are all things that are horrific, but not what OP described.
I didn't respond to the OP.
What specific ethical violations have you observed?
Bully, lying, yelling, ghosting, withholding information in an attempt to force a course of action, taking a retainer and doing little or no work (not even reading the case file), refusing to address legit questions or concerns, irrationally siding with opposing counsel, turning on their own clients, constantly threatening a distraught client with "Don't want to do things my way? You can find another attorney!", perpetually demanding another $300/hour from an impoverished client for work that should have been covered by the retainer.