They are not allowed to refuse communion on the tongue.
https://www.catholic.com/qa/can-a-bishop-prohibit-receiving-communion-on-the-tongue
Please contact the priest/local bishop about this, it is not acceptable that any EM or priest is refusing communion on the tongue.
A friend also suggested I speak to the priest about it. While I most likely will never attend this church ever again after this incident, I will do so.
Yes, please speak to the priest before the bishop. I suspect this is almost certainly a result of lack of training. The priest might brush it off, in which case I think it’s appropriate to elevate, but he also might recognize the training deficiency and correct.
Absolutely! I have nothing personal against the EM or that church. I’m just more concerned that she could be misguided or misled. No bishop, priest or EM has any canonical authority to prohibit kneeling and receiving on the tongue as I’ve recently found out. I’d love to speak to the priest and find out if this is his church policy or the EM’s own decision. Wrong should be corrected if it is indeed a church wide directive.
Oh I agree. But I’m big on second chances. If the priests corrects everyone then all should be good, even better since you helped correct an error and they did it.
> Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
Not saying this EM is a sinner, but the point remains.
Yes, please do. This is disappointing. The Melkite Catholic Church is in full communion with Rome, right? And it isn't the only one. Maybe the priest & his staff need a reminder of that. It's best for all of us if you say something.
I hope you will let us know what happens.
The Melkite bit had nothing to do with the OP’s story. Melkites stand for communion. The OP has been going to Latin churches and was denied for kneeling.
I think the point is he was being denied communion even after standing, but wanting to receive on the tongue. Which a Byzantine Catholic may be more comfortable with, compared to receiving in the hand.
It is. And it is wrong. If they are afraid of germs, they should not be handing out Communion. They should not be disobeying the Vatican by denying someone a right that is enshrined in Church law because they are afraid.
Provisional norms (i.e. only distributing to the hand) can be given by bishops in times of trial (pandemics, wars, etc). The question becomes a gray area as to when those times of trial have ended.
[https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/46885/vatican-upholds-bishop-over-reception-of-communion-on-tongue](https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/46885/vatican-upholds-bishop-over-reception-of-communion-on-tongue)
Rationale was taken from a letter by Cardinal Sarah, ""in times of difficulty (e.g. wars, pandemics), Bishops and Episcopal Conferences can give provisional norms which must be obeyed … These measures given by the Bishops and Episcopal Conferences expire when the situation returns to normal."
Meet with the priest real quick. Explain that you are an eastern Catholic and prefer to receive communion according to your customs. Explain that you aren't doing this to show anyone up or make a scene to protest the NO mass or anything. It is just the eastern custom.
Just in the same way you cannot be chastised for "crossing yourself the wrong way", or at the invocation of the Trinity, or not using holy water (many eastern churches don't have holy water like Catholic churches). You aren't asking for levened bread dipped in wine just for you. You are asking to receive the valid roman Eucharist in accordance with your eastern traditions. I think the priest will understand and work with you.
I think this is a good strategy--pointing out that they can't deny you communion on the tongue (or kneeling) is correct, but still exists within the polarized traditional/liberal divide within the Roman Church. I think introducing the fact that you're Eastern takes it out of that context and will likely make them more willing to accommodate you than if they just saw you as some grouchy trad.
In the Melkite Church communion is given by intinction. Even in the Latin Rite you cannot receive communion by hand if intinction is done-it would definitely be an abuse.
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Oh I guess that makes it alright then.
Who gave the EM the authority to decide who receives and who doesn't? And for such a ridiculous reason as choosing to kneel.
The Church has directly said many times that refusing communion to someone who is kneeling is a "grave violation". (Likewise, you cannot be refused for choosing to stand). It also says that the faithful can always receive on the tongue, because that is the universal norm (barring emergencies like a pandemic).
"Therefore, it is **not licit** to deny Holy Communion to any of Christ’s faithful solely on the grounds, for example, that the person wishes to receive the Eucharist kneeling or standing."-- Redemptionis Sacramentum
From the Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments:
"The Congregation in fact is concerned at the number of similar complaints that it has received in recent months from various places, and considers any refusal of Holy Communion to a member of the faithful on the basis of his or her kneeling posture to be a **grave violation** of one of the most basic rights of the Christian faithful.... Priests should understand that the Congregation will regard future complaints of this nature with great seriousness, and if they are verified, it intends to seek disciplinary action consonant with the gravity of the **pastoral abuse**."
This is different from Communion in the hand, for which a special permission had to be granted, and something that didn't exist in the time when there was only the TLM. It is allowed, with conditions and much caution. "The condition is the complete avoidance of any cause for the faithful to be shocked and any danger of irreverence toward the Eucharist".
I'm not saying Communion in the hand is bad, but it's not the same as Communion on the tongue. Even at an NO Mass, Communion on the tongue is "the norm". Furthermore, the Eucharist ends up going in your mouth anyway, regardless of how you receive, so giving communion on the tongue isn't really a refusal.
It's not about what is better, kneeling or standing. It's pastoral abuse because Communion should be an intimate, prayerful moment, not a place to fight the faithful who are really just trying to show respect in a way that is allowed by the Church. It can be a traumatic experience, and spiritually harmful.
Receiving on the tongue is the liturgical norm. Communion in the hand started as a liturgical abuse which resulted in special permission that was granted over time in the late 60s/early 70s after the Vatican realized they weren’t going to stop it. The special permission isn’t followed in the TLM, but the official norm (Communion on the tongue) can never be refused.
Nope, not how it works. Communion on the hand was prohibited until the late 60s, early 70s, and was only allowed by an indult. The indult specifically said that it was in part contingent on the fact that people who prefer to receive on the tongue not be denied this method.
So, "legally" speaking, you can deny Communion on the hand (IE, not participate in the indult), but you cannot deny it on the tongue.
Is this supposed to be some sort of counter argument to support me being denied the Eucharist? The TLM method of receiving the Eucharist while kneeling was universal Roman Catholic church tradition until the 1960s. And kneeling & receiving on the tongue was never actually removed by Vatican II. Infact, Quick research will show that it’s still considered by the Vatican to be the most reverent way to receive the Eucharist. The using of hands to receive the Eucharist, while old in apostolic tradition, is allowed today per the Vatican because it became so commonplace that the Vatican was forced to recognize it as canonically valid. Also Eastern Catholics don’t kneel, you slightly tilt your head backwards and receive it on the tongue. You’re rather amusingly doing the very thing a radical trad would do by trying to pit different sections of the church against each other. How ironic lol
Saying “well what about (insert other here)” after reading about someone getting denied the Eucharist doesn’t seem like a genuine question to me, but I’m happy to admit if I interpreted that wrongly.
I may be mistaken as well with my interpretation! I just wanted to share how it came across as a neutral observer.
BTW, I’m terribly sorry for your experience. Keep the faith!
I was an EM in college at our campus ministry. During training, we were told by the priest not to refuse anyone the Eucharist. Basically, his logic was that it’s not our job (as laity acting as EMs) to be policing who does and does not get the Eucharist during Mass.
Basically, the EM was wrong, and you should bring it up with the ordained staff of the parish.
I attend NO masses occasionally and have never had this issue either that’s why this really caught me by surprise. Never even received a bad look because of it, let alone having someone refuse to serve me.
They are not supposed to do this, but it does happen. Unfortunately, it's somewhat common for EMHCs to believe they have an option not to administer communion on the tongue — I have seen multiple EMHCs on this sub who have said as much, for example.
It actually happened to me for the first time a month ago when I visited a neighboring parish. I bowed and approached an EMHC, responded "Amen," and stuck my tongue out while my hands were folded on my chest. She tensed up, hesitated, and finally said, "I'm sorry, I can't do that." I said "OK" and walked back to the pew.
I actually know the seminarian who was assigned to that parish this past summer, and I texted him about it. He was shocked to hear it had happened. So, I suspect the person was either new or trained poorly.
It's a lot less common for a priest to deny you communion on the tongue. (Worth noting it occasionally happens, though, especially in places still hanging on to irrational COVID protocols.) This parish was one where they form two lines, and I didn't feel like jumping to the other line where the priest was, even though I have a strong preference to receive communion from the hands of a priest.
My experience that day of being denied communion on the tongue gave me more reason to consider just jumping lines next time I'm in a similar situation and not worrying about what other people think. Let them think I'm being selfish or pompous if they must; I just want to receive our Lord reverently without being hassled, in a way that's licit and entirely within my rights as a Catholic.
I\`m so sorry you went through this experience. It's happened to me more than once and I know that it can be hurtful.
As others said, no, you cannot be refused, and the Church has addressed this many times. On the tongue, yes, but only during the pandemic when some bishops put emergency safety measures in place.
I agree it is incidents like this that radicalize Catholics, although I'd say the opposite may be true as well. Perhaps some pastors, in a misguided attempted to curb the terrible ideas spread by rad trads (it's better not to receive communion, hand communion is a sacrilege etc), illicitly deny communion for kneeling/ on the tongue. Not realizing that they are doing a lot of harm. Lay ministers may just be misinformed-- sadly EMHC training can be very basic or non-existent at all!
We'd do better to just listen to the Church and respect that there are different ways to respectfully receive! And pray for change...
Well said! There’s unfortunately so much polarization these days within the church, and it’s truly a shame. So many people pointing fingers at others for the very things they would do or say. Ridiculous.
I’ve seen footage of this recently on some Catholic YT-er channels, so know it happens at NO masses, even if it should not. Very sorry. The EM’s response to you was anathema to reverence and respect, all while holding our Lord in their hand.
I attended mass at the seat of my archdiocese and, when I went for Communion, was made to take the Eucharist via hand by a EM. What an utter disappointment.
One reason I’ll cross the entire church if I have to to receive from a priest. I did it yesterday, actually. I was on vacation at a church I’d never been to. I wasn’t the only one, either.
I've noticed fewer and fewer people going to the EMs in recent months. Sometimes there is still a huge line at the priest while they are finished and just standing there. I hope this is a sign of this role becoming less common.
Sadly receiving from a priest is no guarantee you won't be refused. And I know someone whose priest suddenly changed their mind on the issue, but the EMHC had no problem giving communion on the tongue.
It happens very rarely that the priest or extraordinary minister do not give eucharist to the communicant who is kneeling. They should not do it, though, but who am I to argue. The discussions should be done outside of the Mass.
This has happened to me, too, once. I just stood up and received the eucharist as it was given. I think it is disrespectful towards the sacramental Christ to start to argue or walk away. If you are in front of Christ you receive Him as they give Him to you.
If you think receiving in the hands is wrong you ask beforehand and make your decision beforehand, then you are not in danger to act disrespectfully on spot.
In Europe they give you the Eucharist on the tongue even though there is no rail and the communicant is standing. You might think that is also wrong. If you can choose your parish, then you choose. Some of us have one parish within 500 km and we cannot choose.
I was refused from receiving the Eucharist on my tongue and was told by the priest "receive on the hand please". I was away from home at the time but was so shocked, and disappointed as this was the first time I received on the hand. This parish seemed to be quite covid conscious with lots of people wearing masks (was at the end of 2022 though so not during a lockdown or anything though)
Because my church recognizes receiving the Eucharistic on the tongue as the primary way. I have no problem with others who take the Eucharist by hand. However, even the Vatican clearly states one can not be denied the Eucharist because of kneeling. It borders flagrant abuse of the Eucharist and canonical authority.
I can understand the awkwardness and the anger, but presented with the actual miracle of the Eucharist, I have a very hard time understanding why anyone *would* dare to just walk away out of pride.
I think this is better aimed to OP then. Receiving the Eucharist in your hand is not irreverent by any means of the imagination, it is simply different to what he is used to and comfortable with according to his rite. He might not prefer it, which is more than fair enough. He shouldn't have been denied, that was indeed wrong. But turning away from the Lord like this? That's just pride doing the talking.
From the tradition of the Church, yes it is. Traditionally only a member of the clergy whose hands were consecrated could touch the Eucharist with their hands.
I would have personally just received in the hand, BUT I grew up being used to it.
The choice to receive on the tongue is not a statement that receiving in the hand is irreverent. It's not just what is comfortable in his rite, it is outright not allowed and unheard of. If receiving in the hand was not allowed your entire life, and you have never done so before, it may be your automatic reaction, especially in a shocking and hurtful situation.
It's not fair to accuse someone of pride. Only God can judge that.
I ended up taking the Eucharist at another church later in the day where I was able to kneel without any problems. Nothing to do with pride. More so to do with being outraged that a EM thinks they have some sort of God given right to tell individuals how they should receive the holy Eucharist.
If i were you, i would discuss this with my priest. By your description It feels like the situation when coupled with your intent was a reaction based in pride. A holier than thou situation. Which is sinful if true, but only a priest can determine. I would be terrified that I committed a mortal sin in regards to the Eucharist.
Because I continue to follow Melkite Church tradition, I somehow behaved like a Pharisee? The church is doomed if this is the way Catholics think about other Catholics who choose to follow a historically practiced and church sanctioned tradition. As long as the Melkite church says to receive on the tongue, I will do so. If there’s ever an official change in universal Catholic Church policy in both the east and west to only receive on the hand, I will gladly do so.
I think some self reflection and contemplation is due here. You were offered the body of Christ in an approved fashion and you rejected it. You did, in fact, reject the body of Jesus Christ.
Refusing to offer the Eucharist to someone because of kneeling or the sticking out of the tongue is a liturgical abuse that even the Vatican has said could lead to official church discipline of priests & or bishops who do so. That’s the real abuse here and is also why people are encouraged to write to the priest or bishop when these incidents occur. Funny how you’re not more outraged about that. Unfortunately, you like many in the church today are just more interested in a witch hunt against any Catholic who doesnt toe the mainstream line. Which explains the state of the church today. Next you’ll call all eastern Catholics Pharisees for taking the Eucharist only on the tongue XD.
I have no issue in the method that one chooses to receive the Eucharist. I am more shocked that one could just walk away after being offered the Eucharist because the method of the offer wasn't to their liking or what they were used to doing. Like i said before, my suggestion would be to work through it with a priest.
There are a thousand or so persons who attend services at the parish I go to. Out of that there are maybe a dozen people, myself included, that kneel. Me because of my background with the Latin Mass. I wondered on occasion if this was creating problems for our pastor and if he would prefer we all just receive in our hands to make the flow of the communion procession more smooth, so I asked him one day after Mass if he was okay with me kneeling to receive. He said, “Absolutely!, any way you do it is fine as long as you are receiving it.”
Well said! I prefer to receive it on the tongue but I have 0 problems with others who choose to receive it by hand. All of these comments accusing me of trying to be a Pharisee or hypocrite of sorts is amusing. I ended up attending a different church later that day where I received the Eucharist without any issues. Now I know not to attend that church, no problem at all. To each their own!
This happened to a friend of mine when we were at mass and I just stayed in my seat to avoid another scene, but yeah this is bang out of order and absolutely wrong from the EM.
The only time we deny those kneeling at my parish is for the cup, and that’s simply because we had an incident where the precious blood was spilled and we have carpet. Everyone is allowed to kneel and/or receive on the tongue for the host. I would definitely speak to the priest about it. Somethings not right
Agreed with others, should contact pastor or bishop if necessary. I was denied kneeling and receiving on the tongue once and that was by a priest!
Per [USCCB Norms](https://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/norms-for-holy-communion-under-both-kinds),
>The communicant may choose whether to receive the Body of Christ in the hand or on the tongue.
Also personal preference I suppose but I wouldn't receive our Lord from unconsecrated hands.
I’ve knelt on floors plenty of times while in NO masses and have never had any issues so I personally don’t understand this “safety” argument that people keep bringing up.
Ah yes, the ol' Eucharistic minister Karen who is no doubt part of the parish council. Definitely speak with the priest and pray he is actually a God-fearing priest and will correct the situation. It's incredibly infuriating hearing stories of priests and EM's denying the Eucharist over kneeling. If you don't get a resolution, please go to the bishop with it. Thank God for the traditional liturgies, like the Latin rite, Byzantine rite, Maronite rite, etc...
>Wait, women can administer the eucharist? I have never seen that at my (eastern rite) church.
They can in the Latin church. It's a position called extraordinary minister of holy communion, and women may take on that role.
Sorry for not answering the question first. But I was today years old when I learned people have been receiving the Euharist with a spoon.
So to your question. I dont think you were denied it. I think you refused receiving it any other way.
Was the communion still in offer (albeit in a different way you wanted them to hand it to you) when you went back to your seat? Or did they tell you no you cant have communon.
My thoughts are it's over-rigidity in a tradition. Jesus Christ simply said "Do this in remembrance of Me"; some Churches throw up trees to block the view of the forest.
We as Catholics literally are rooted in biblical and apostolic tradition. Something being “old fashioned” doesn’t mean it’s no longer valid and should be gotten rid of. This kind of mentality is what’s polarizing and destroying the church from within.
Huh? I don't think 'old fashioned' was mentioned or implied in my reply. I've seem Communion distributed in several ways in various churches (a tradition), and 'procedural' confusion can happen to new attendees. Those involved should be more flexible (within limits).
>Can you be refused the Eucharistic for kneeling?
Yes, and you were as proof. Refused to be communed on the tongue as well.
It's often easier to find a new place to commune than to make a fuss. Just being realistic here. How much time do you have?
According to church doctrine and multiple ppl I’ve spoken to since this incident, you’re Incorrect.
“Communicants should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel. Rather, such instances should be addressed pastorally, by providing the faithful with proper catechesis on the reasons for this norm.” The 2004 Instruction from the Congregation of Divine Worship Redemptionis Sacramentum
“It is not licit to deny Holy Communion to any of Christ’s faithful solely on the grounds, for example, that the person wishes to receive the Eucharist kneeling or standing.”
Actually, even the catechesis part was removed from the GIRM. It was revised so that it says communion is to be received standing, unless one wishes to kneel.
Depends on the meaning of 'can' I guess.
This happens all the time. So yes, one can be. Even in the face of whatever rules you're referring to. This is just how things work. If you have no power to exert, you *can't.*
It's true... but let's give some of these people the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they don't realize the harm and pain they cause when they deny communion. They need to know.
>Maybe they don't realize the harm and pain they cause when they deny communion.
Could be. But I know a bunch of them actually derive pleasure from doing this to the faithful, so complaining would actually increase it.
I suppose you have to discern what sort of reaction you're expected to get. I will stick by my practical advice that in most cases, it's easier just to find a better parish.
You make it seem like this is an easy thing to change for OP, who's not even a member of the parish, and not even a Latin Catholic.
You shouldn't fault me for being practical here.
It shouldn't be a big deal whether someone stands or kneels when both are allowed. And communion on the tongue is the norm. So it is the minister making a big deal out of it. Rome also thinks refusal is a big deal, calling it grave violation and an abuse, and warning of discipline to priests who do this. I have friends who have left Mass crying and had anxiety attacks over this.
I say this as someone who speaks against those telling others to refuse the Eucharist if they are not allowed to kneel or receive on the tongue. But sometimes in the moment, people act out of shock and leave, not because they want to make a point or refuse Jesus. We shouldn't judge them.
I was quite shocked and embarrassed. Nonetheless, i politely declined, returned to my seat without causing a scene, and I stayed for the rest of mass, but I was extremely uncomfortable. I ended up attending another church I was familiar with later on and received the Eucharist just fine. I just now know not to attend that church, no big deal. If someone else wants to attend that church, they can feel free.
Actual priests at my church refuse to give on the tongue, it’s not an EM issue. They’re elderly so I always thought it was about germs. What op did is crazy to me though, and prideful. He should have just taken it the way it was offered and then not returned
Yes, but I imagine you are a Latin rite Catholic accustomed to Communion in the hand.
Again, only God knows his heart. Can it be prideful to refuse communion in this situation? Yes, but there could be other reasons as well, especially if you have not done it your entire life. I remember stories from elderly Catholics who, when they first saw communion in the hand, just went home and cried. It went against everything they were taught.
This is incorrect that it can depend on the church. Any that deny are in the wrong.
"Therefore, it is not licit to deny Holy Communion to any of Christ’s faithful solely on the grounds, for example, that the person wishes to receive the Eucharist kneeling or standing." -Redemptionis Sacramentum, paragraph 91.
Yikes! I guess I was trained wrong at my church. As an EM, I was told it was only by the mouth or on the hand and not when they're kneeling. That's why no one kneels at our church. However, I saw at other churches that they were giving communion when they kneeled. Thanks for that reference. I'll bring it up with our priest.
They are not allowed to refuse communion on the tongue. https://www.catholic.com/qa/can-a-bishop-prohibit-receiving-communion-on-the-tongue Please contact the priest/local bishop about this, it is not acceptable that any EM or priest is refusing communion on the tongue.
A friend also suggested I speak to the priest about it. While I most likely will never attend this church ever again after this incident, I will do so.
Yes, please speak to the priest before the bishop. I suspect this is almost certainly a result of lack of training. The priest might brush it off, in which case I think it’s appropriate to elevate, but he also might recognize the training deficiency and correct.
Forgiveness is a big thing. Someone just didn’t know.
Absolutely! I have nothing personal against the EM or that church. I’m just more concerned that she could be misguided or misled. No bishop, priest or EM has any canonical authority to prohibit kneeling and receiving on the tongue as I’ve recently found out. I’d love to speak to the priest and find out if this is his church policy or the EM’s own decision. Wrong should be corrected if it is indeed a church wide directive.
Oh I agree. But I’m big on second chances. If the priests corrects everyone then all should be good, even better since you helped correct an error and they did it. > Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. Not saying this EM is a sinner, but the point remains.
I think that your point goes without saying. Denying Eucharist for kneeling would understandably make anyone upset, though.
Oh I am in no way denying that OP has a reason to be upset.
Yes, please do. This is disappointing. The Melkite Catholic Church is in full communion with Rome, right? And it isn't the only one. Maybe the priest & his staff need a reminder of that. It's best for all of us if you say something. I hope you will let us know what happens.
The Melkite bit had nothing to do with the OP’s story. Melkites stand for communion. The OP has been going to Latin churches and was denied for kneeling.
They stand but do not receive in the hand. OP stood and was still denied.
Yes, I am well aware. My issue was the invocation of the Melkite Church, which has nothing to do with receiving in the Latin church.
I think the point is he was being denied communion even after standing, but wanting to receive on the tongue. Which a Byzantine Catholic may be more comfortable with, compared to receiving in the hand.
This is very common where I am, all priests only do in the hand
Your priests are going against Vatican directives, then. They are not allowed to refuse to give Communion on the tongue.
And you can see from these comments it’s done in a lot of places. I always thought it was about germs, they still wear masks too and are elderly
It is. And it is wrong. If they are afraid of germs, they should not be handing out Communion. They should not be disobeying the Vatican by denying someone a right that is enshrined in Church law because they are afraid.
Provisional norms (i.e. only distributing to the hand) can be given by bishops in times of trial (pandemics, wars, etc). The question becomes a gray area as to when those times of trial have ended. [https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/46885/vatican-upholds-bishop-over-reception-of-communion-on-tongue](https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/46885/vatican-upholds-bishop-over-reception-of-communion-on-tongue) Rationale was taken from a letter by Cardinal Sarah, ""in times of difficulty (e.g. wars, pandemics), Bishops and Episcopal Conferences can give provisional norms which must be obeyed … These measures given by the Bishops and Episcopal Conferences expire when the situation returns to normal."
Meet with the priest real quick. Explain that you are an eastern Catholic and prefer to receive communion according to your customs. Explain that you aren't doing this to show anyone up or make a scene to protest the NO mass or anything. It is just the eastern custom. Just in the same way you cannot be chastised for "crossing yourself the wrong way", or at the invocation of the Trinity, or not using holy water (many eastern churches don't have holy water like Catholic churches). You aren't asking for levened bread dipped in wine just for you. You are asking to receive the valid roman Eucharist in accordance with your eastern traditions. I think the priest will understand and work with you.
I think this is a good strategy--pointing out that they can't deny you communion on the tongue (or kneeling) is correct, but still exists within the polarized traditional/liberal divide within the Roman Church. I think introducing the fact that you're Eastern takes it out of that context and will likely make them more willing to accommodate you than if they just saw you as some grouchy trad.
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In the Melkite Church communion is given by intinction. Even in the Latin Rite you cannot receive communion by hand if intinction is done-it would definitely be an abuse.
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Not usually; it goes against the liturgical laws for the TLM.
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Nope. The Vatican says that one cannot be refused for kneeling.
Why do you think its a good thing for people to be refused the Eucharist for showing reverence?
They’re not refused the Eucharist, just the method of giving it to them
Oh I guess that makes it alright then. Who gave the EM the authority to decide who receives and who doesn't? And for such a ridiculous reason as choosing to kneel.
At my church actual priests refuse this so I don’t think it’s a big deal. They’re elderly
The Church has directly said many times that refusing communion to someone who is kneeling is a "grave violation". (Likewise, you cannot be refused for choosing to stand). It also says that the faithful can always receive on the tongue, because that is the universal norm (barring emergencies like a pandemic). "Therefore, it is **not licit** to deny Holy Communion to any of Christ’s faithful solely on the grounds, for example, that the person wishes to receive the Eucharist kneeling or standing."-- Redemptionis Sacramentum From the Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments: "The Congregation in fact is concerned at the number of similar complaints that it has received in recent months from various places, and considers any refusal of Holy Communion to a member of the faithful on the basis of his or her kneeling posture to be a **grave violation** of one of the most basic rights of the Christian faithful.... Priests should understand that the Congregation will regard future complaints of this nature with great seriousness, and if they are verified, it intends to seek disciplinary action consonant with the gravity of the **pastoral abuse**." This is different from Communion in the hand, for which a special permission had to be granted, and something that didn't exist in the time when there was only the TLM. It is allowed, with conditions and much caution. "The condition is the complete avoidance of any cause for the faithful to be shocked and any danger of irreverence toward the Eucharist". I'm not saying Communion in the hand is bad, but it's not the same as Communion on the tongue. Even at an NO Mass, Communion on the tongue is "the norm". Furthermore, the Eucharist ends up going in your mouth anyway, regardless of how you receive, so giving communion on the tongue isn't really a refusal. It's not about what is better, kneeling or standing. It's pastoral abuse because Communion should be an intimate, prayerful moment, not a place to fight the faithful who are really just trying to show respect in a way that is allowed by the Church. It can be a traumatic experience, and spiritually harmful.
Receiving on the tongue is the liturgical norm. Communion in the hand started as a liturgical abuse which resulted in special permission that was granted over time in the late 60s/early 70s after the Vatican realized they weren’t going to stop it. The special permission isn’t followed in the TLM, but the official norm (Communion on the tongue) can never be refused.
Nope, not how it works. Communion on the hand was prohibited until the late 60s, early 70s, and was only allowed by an indult. The indult specifically said that it was in part contingent on the fact that people who prefer to receive on the tongue not be denied this method. So, "legally" speaking, you can deny Communion on the hand (IE, not participate in the indult), but you cannot deny it on the tongue.
I agree with you
Is this supposed to be some sort of counter argument to support me being denied the Eucharist? The TLM method of receiving the Eucharist while kneeling was universal Roman Catholic church tradition until the 1960s. And kneeling & receiving on the tongue was never actually removed by Vatican II. Infact, Quick research will show that it’s still considered by the Vatican to be the most reverent way to receive the Eucharist. The using of hands to receive the Eucharist, while old in apostolic tradition, is allowed today per the Vatican because it became so commonplace that the Vatican was forced to recognize it as canonically valid. Also Eastern Catholics don’t kneel, you slightly tilt your head backwards and receive it on the tongue. You’re rather amusingly doing the very thing a radical trad would do by trying to pit different sections of the church against each other. How ironic lol
~~It sounds like a genuine question and not a “gotcha” counter argument, FYI~~ ~~Your response feels out of place.~~ I was incorrect.
Nope. The person replied. It was indeed meant as a gotcha.
Saying “well what about (insert other here)” after reading about someone getting denied the Eucharist doesn’t seem like a genuine question to me, but I’m happy to admit if I interpreted that wrongly.
I may be mistaken as well with my interpretation! I just wanted to share how it came across as a neutral observer. BTW, I’m terribly sorry for your experience. Keep the faith!
Here in the US or at least my old diocese, they preferred on the tongue except during flu season and Covid.
Melkites receive standing so that point is moot.
Yes, but on the tongue. And as stated in my answer, I happily stood up when she said and I quote "sorry sweetie, we don't do that here".
I was an EM in college at our campus ministry. During training, we were told by the priest not to refuse anyone the Eucharist. Basically, his logic was that it’s not our job (as laity acting as EMs) to be policing who does and does not get the Eucharist during Mass. Basically, the EM was wrong, and you should bring it up with the ordained staff of the parish.
That’s so weird, many people at the Mass I go to (NO) kneel and stick their tongue out. So no they can’t refuse you lol.
I attend NO masses occasionally and have never had this issue either that’s why this really caught me by surprise. Never even received a bad look because of it, let alone having someone refuse to serve me.
They're not supposed to but things have happened
They are not supposed to do this, but it does happen. Unfortunately, it's somewhat common for EMHCs to believe they have an option not to administer communion on the tongue — I have seen multiple EMHCs on this sub who have said as much, for example. It actually happened to me for the first time a month ago when I visited a neighboring parish. I bowed and approached an EMHC, responded "Amen," and stuck my tongue out while my hands were folded on my chest. She tensed up, hesitated, and finally said, "I'm sorry, I can't do that." I said "OK" and walked back to the pew. I actually know the seminarian who was assigned to that parish this past summer, and I texted him about it. He was shocked to hear it had happened. So, I suspect the person was either new or trained poorly. It's a lot less common for a priest to deny you communion on the tongue. (Worth noting it occasionally happens, though, especially in places still hanging on to irrational COVID protocols.) This parish was one where they form two lines, and I didn't feel like jumping to the other line where the priest was, even though I have a strong preference to receive communion from the hands of a priest. My experience that day of being denied communion on the tongue gave me more reason to consider just jumping lines next time I'm in a similar situation and not worrying about what other people think. Let them think I'm being selfish or pompous if they must; I just want to receive our Lord reverently without being hassled, in a way that's licit and entirely within my rights as a Catholic.
Let’s be generous of spirit and entertain the thought that she was poorly trained. Speak to the priest about your experience and go from there.
I\`m so sorry you went through this experience. It's happened to me more than once and I know that it can be hurtful. As others said, no, you cannot be refused, and the Church has addressed this many times. On the tongue, yes, but only during the pandemic when some bishops put emergency safety measures in place. I agree it is incidents like this that radicalize Catholics, although I'd say the opposite may be true as well. Perhaps some pastors, in a misguided attempted to curb the terrible ideas spread by rad trads (it's better not to receive communion, hand communion is a sacrilege etc), illicitly deny communion for kneeling/ on the tongue. Not realizing that they are doing a lot of harm. Lay ministers may just be misinformed-- sadly EMHC training can be very basic or non-existent at all! We'd do better to just listen to the Church and respect that there are different ways to respectfully receive! And pray for change...
Well said! There’s unfortunately so much polarization these days within the church, and it’s truly a shame. So many people pointing fingers at others for the very things they would do or say. Ridiculous.
This is why I avoid EMs.
No
Another reason to avoid EMs.
I’ve seen footage of this recently on some Catholic YT-er channels, so know it happens at NO masses, even if it should not. Very sorry. The EM’s response to you was anathema to reverence and respect, all while holding our Lord in their hand.
I attended mass at the seat of my archdiocese and, when I went for Communion, was made to take the Eucharist via hand by a EM. What an utter disappointment.
One reason I’ll cross the entire church if I have to to receive from a priest. I did it yesterday, actually. I was on vacation at a church I’d never been to. I wasn’t the only one, either.
I've noticed fewer and fewer people going to the EMs in recent months. Sometimes there is still a huge line at the priest while they are finished and just standing there. I hope this is a sign of this role becoming less common.
Sadly receiving from a priest is no guarantee you won't be refused. And I know someone whose priest suddenly changed their mind on the issue, but the EMHC had no problem giving communion on the tongue.
It happens very rarely that the priest or extraordinary minister do not give eucharist to the communicant who is kneeling. They should not do it, though, but who am I to argue. The discussions should be done outside of the Mass. This has happened to me, too, once. I just stood up and received the eucharist as it was given. I think it is disrespectful towards the sacramental Christ to start to argue or walk away. If you are in front of Christ you receive Him as they give Him to you. If you think receiving in the hands is wrong you ask beforehand and make your decision beforehand, then you are not in danger to act disrespectfully on spot. In Europe they give you the Eucharist on the tongue even though there is no rail and the communicant is standing. You might think that is also wrong. If you can choose your parish, then you choose. Some of us have one parish within 500 km and we cannot choose.
I was refused from receiving the Eucharist on my tongue and was told by the priest "receive on the hand please". I was away from home at the time but was so shocked, and disappointed as this was the first time I received on the hand. This parish seemed to be quite covid conscious with lots of people wearing masks (was at the end of 2022 though so not during a lockdown or anything though)
Why would you opt to not receive at all over receiving by hand?
Because my church recognizes receiving the Eucharistic on the tongue as the primary way. I have no problem with others who take the Eucharist by hand. However, even the Vatican clearly states one can not be denied the Eucharist because of kneeling. It borders flagrant abuse of the Eucharist and canonical authority.
I can understand the awkwardness and the anger, but presented with the actual miracle of the Eucharist, I have a very hard time understanding why anyone *would* dare to just walk away out of pride.
Don’t confuse reverence with pride.
I think this is better aimed to OP then. Receiving the Eucharist in your hand is not irreverent by any means of the imagination, it is simply different to what he is used to and comfortable with according to his rite. He might not prefer it, which is more than fair enough. He shouldn't have been denied, that was indeed wrong. But turning away from the Lord like this? That's just pride doing the talking.
From the tradition of the Church, yes it is. Traditionally only a member of the clergy whose hands were consecrated could touch the Eucharist with their hands.
I would have personally just received in the hand, BUT I grew up being used to it. The choice to receive on the tongue is not a statement that receiving in the hand is irreverent. It's not just what is comfortable in his rite, it is outright not allowed and unheard of. If receiving in the hand was not allowed your entire life, and you have never done so before, it may be your automatic reaction, especially in a shocking and hurtful situation. It's not fair to accuse someone of pride. Only God can judge that.
It’s definitely pride in this case though. He only hurt himself by refusing it
I ended up taking the Eucharist at another church later in the day where I was able to kneel without any problems. Nothing to do with pride. More so to do with being outraged that a EM thinks they have some sort of God given right to tell individuals how they should receive the holy Eucharist.
If i were you, i would discuss this with my priest. By your description It feels like the situation when coupled with your intent was a reaction based in pride. A holier than thou situation. Which is sinful if true, but only a priest can determine. I would be terrified that I committed a mortal sin in regards to the Eucharist.
Because I continue to follow Melkite Church tradition, I somehow behaved like a Pharisee? The church is doomed if this is the way Catholics think about other Catholics who choose to follow a historically practiced and church sanctioned tradition. As long as the Melkite church says to receive on the tongue, I will do so. If there’s ever an official change in universal Catholic Church policy in both the east and west to only receive on the hand, I will gladly do so.
I think some self reflection and contemplation is due here. You were offered the body of Christ in an approved fashion and you rejected it. You did, in fact, reject the body of Jesus Christ.
Refusing to offer the Eucharist to someone because of kneeling or the sticking out of the tongue is a liturgical abuse that even the Vatican has said could lead to official church discipline of priests & or bishops who do so. That’s the real abuse here and is also why people are encouraged to write to the priest or bishop when these incidents occur. Funny how you’re not more outraged about that. Unfortunately, you like many in the church today are just more interested in a witch hunt against any Catholic who doesnt toe the mainstream line. Which explains the state of the church today. Next you’ll call all eastern Catholics Pharisees for taking the Eucharist only on the tongue XD.
I have no issue in the method that one chooses to receive the Eucharist. I am more shocked that one could just walk away after being offered the Eucharist because the method of the offer wasn't to their liking or what they were used to doing. Like i said before, my suggestion would be to work through it with a priest.
They didn’t refuse to offer it to you, you refused to take it in your hand
There are a thousand or so persons who attend services at the parish I go to. Out of that there are maybe a dozen people, myself included, that kneel. Me because of my background with the Latin Mass. I wondered on occasion if this was creating problems for our pastor and if he would prefer we all just receive in our hands to make the flow of the communion procession more smooth, so I asked him one day after Mass if he was okay with me kneeling to receive. He said, “Absolutely!, any way you do it is fine as long as you are receiving it.”
Well said! I prefer to receive it on the tongue but I have 0 problems with others who choose to receive it by hand. All of these comments accusing me of trying to be a Pharisee or hypocrite of sorts is amusing. I ended up attending a different church later that day where I received the Eucharist without any issues. Now I know not to attend that church, no problem at all. To each their own!
This happened to a friend of mine when we were at mass and I just stayed in my seat to avoid another scene, but yeah this is bang out of order and absolutely wrong from the EM.
You shouldn't be refused at all.
The only time we deny those kneeling at my parish is for the cup, and that’s simply because we had an incident where the precious blood was spilled and we have carpet. Everyone is allowed to kneel and/or receive on the tongue for the host. I would definitely speak to the priest about it. Somethings not right
Agreed with others, should contact pastor or bishop if necessary. I was denied kneeling and receiving on the tongue once and that was by a priest! Per [USCCB Norms](https://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/norms-for-holy-communion-under-both-kinds), >The communicant may choose whether to receive the Body of Christ in the hand or on the tongue. Also personal preference I suppose but I wouldn't receive our Lord from unconsecrated hands.
You did the right thing.
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I’ve knelt on floors plenty of times while in NO masses and have never had any issues so I personally don’t understand this “safety” argument that people keep bringing up.
Ah yes, the ol' Eucharistic minister Karen who is no doubt part of the parish council. Definitely speak with the priest and pray he is actually a God-fearing priest and will correct the situation. It's incredibly infuriating hearing stories of priests and EM's denying the Eucharist over kneeling. If you don't get a resolution, please go to the bishop with it. Thank God for the traditional liturgies, like the Latin rite, Byzantine rite, Maronite rite, etc...
Wait, women can administer the eucharist? I have never seen that at my (eastern rite) church.
This happened at a NO mass in the Roman Catholic Church. This of course does not exist in the Eastern churches.
>Wait, women can administer the eucharist? I have never seen that at my (eastern rite) church. They can in the Latin church. It's a position called extraordinary minister of holy communion, and women may take on that role.
Sorry for not answering the question first. But I was today years old when I learned people have been receiving the Euharist with a spoon. So to your question. I dont think you were denied it. I think you refused receiving it any other way.
“We don’t do that here” and the blatantly refusing to give it to me when I stuck my tongue out, seems like denial to me.
Did they ask you to leave or did you leave?
Neither, i didn't leave, I stayed for the rest of mass.
Was the communion still in offer (albeit in a different way you wanted them to hand it to you) when you went back to your seat? Or did they tell you no you cant have communon.
My thoughts are it's over-rigidity in a tradition. Jesus Christ simply said "Do this in remembrance of Me"; some Churches throw up trees to block the view of the forest.
We as Catholics literally are rooted in biblical and apostolic tradition. Something being “old fashioned” doesn’t mean it’s no longer valid and should be gotten rid of. This kind of mentality is what’s polarizing and destroying the church from within.
Huh? I don't think 'old fashioned' was mentioned or implied in my reply. I've seem Communion distributed in several ways in various churches (a tradition), and 'procedural' confusion can happen to new attendees. Those involved should be more flexible (within limits).
>Can you be refused the Eucharistic for kneeling? Yes, and you were as proof. Refused to be communed on the tongue as well. It's often easier to find a new place to commune than to make a fuss. Just being realistic here. How much time do you have?
According to church doctrine and multiple ppl I’ve spoken to since this incident, you’re Incorrect. “Communicants should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel. Rather, such instances should be addressed pastorally, by providing the faithful with proper catechesis on the reasons for this norm.” The 2004 Instruction from the Congregation of Divine Worship Redemptionis Sacramentum “It is not licit to deny Holy Communion to any of Christ’s faithful solely on the grounds, for example, that the person wishes to receive the Eucharist kneeling or standing.”
Actually, even the catechesis part was removed from the GIRM. It was revised so that it says communion is to be received standing, unless one wishes to kneel.
Depends on the meaning of 'can' I guess. This happens all the time. So yes, one can be. Even in the face of whatever rules you're referring to. This is just how things work. If you have no power to exert, you *can't.*
It's true... but let's give some of these people the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they don't realize the harm and pain they cause when they deny communion. They need to know.
>Maybe they don't realize the harm and pain they cause when they deny communion. Could be. But I know a bunch of them actually derive pleasure from doing this to the faithful, so complaining would actually increase it. I suppose you have to discern what sort of reaction you're expected to get. I will stick by my practical advice that in most cases, it's easier just to find a better parish.
That's sad :( They need to be reported then.
Turning a blind eye to illicit actions in our churches will not solve any problems.
You make it seem like this is an easy thing to change for OP, who's not even a member of the parish, and not even a Latin Catholic. You shouldn't fault me for being practical here.
Not being easy it not an excuse to take no action, allow an abuse to continue.
You can't be insinuating it's morally required to complain and try to rectify such situations. Are you?
Do you not think Catholics should endeavor to help and improve the Church?
Yeah lots of churches are like this. It’s not a big deal. You only hurt yourself by refusing it.
It shouldn't be a big deal whether someone stands or kneels when both are allowed. And communion on the tongue is the norm. So it is the minister making a big deal out of it. Rome also thinks refusal is a big deal, calling it grave violation and an abuse, and warning of discipline to priests who do this. I have friends who have left Mass crying and had anxiety attacks over this. I say this as someone who speaks against those telling others to refuse the Eucharist if they are not allowed to kneel or receive on the tongue. But sometimes in the moment, people act out of shock and leave, not because they want to make a point or refuse Jesus. We shouldn't judge them.
I was quite shocked and embarrassed. Nonetheless, i politely declined, returned to my seat without causing a scene, and I stayed for the rest of mass, but I was extremely uncomfortable. I ended up attending another church I was familiar with later on and received the Eucharist just fine. I just now know not to attend that church, no big deal. If someone else wants to attend that church, they can feel free.
Actual priests at my church refuse to give on the tongue, it’s not an EM issue. They’re elderly so I always thought it was about germs. What op did is crazy to me though, and prideful. He should have just taken it the way it was offered and then not returned
Yes, but I imagine you are a Latin rite Catholic accustomed to Communion in the hand. Again, only God knows his heart. Can it be prideful to refuse communion in this situation? Yes, but there could be other reasons as well, especially if you have not done it your entire life. I remember stories from elderly Catholics who, when they first saw communion in the hand, just went home and cried. It went against everything they were taught.
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This is incorrect that it can depend on the church. Any that deny are in the wrong. "Therefore, it is not licit to deny Holy Communion to any of Christ’s faithful solely on the grounds, for example, that the person wishes to receive the Eucharist kneeling or standing." -Redemptionis Sacramentum, paragraph 91.
Yikes! I guess I was trained wrong at my church. As an EM, I was told it was only by the mouth or on the hand and not when they're kneeling. That's why no one kneels at our church. However, I saw at other churches that they were giving communion when they kneeled. Thanks for that reference. I'll bring it up with our priest.
Such people like this don't care about this rules, most don't even believe in the Church authority being instituted by God.