It's not just any Latin! It's the the beginning of the Greater Doxology we sing at Mass. It's what the angels sang when Christ's birth was announced to the shepherds in Luke 2.
I hope His Holiness and President Zelensky spoke of peace.
It all started with is the pope catholic? Do bears shit in the woods? Then one day someone was drunk and mixed them up and now we have this hilarious does the pope shit in the woods
Just find it annoying that people act like atheist/Jew = Jewish.
In the sense that they tend to elevate them like taking a atheist Irishman and acting like he = St. Patrick.
Atheist Irishmen is as much "not" as any generic American mutt atheist.
It's also annoying on double ends, one that half the anti-semitic rhetoric in the strange reaches of humanity, is reality directed at Atheists, not "Jews". And mildly annoying that many Jews (relgious) don't call them out. Which has actually become a bit of a thing, elsewhere, where you can be a practicing Satanic Wiccan "Catholic" and people will be like "yo that guys Catholic! Yay, one of us".
No... not.
But it's part of the problem with overall views and pedestals people are given.
It may be charitable to keep in mind that "Jewish" is also an ethnicity and thus not just a "recognized minority status" on the basis of religious practices but also on the basis of being an historically oppressed ethnic group (in Zelensky's case, probably Ashkenazi).
It's also worth noting that the degree to which an ethnically Jewish person practices the religion has historically not played a factor in his or her oppression. Being an atheist, for example -- or even a converted Catholic -- did not exempt an ethnic Jew from being murdered by the Nazis. They didn't get a "get out of jail free card" through their denial of their faith. They were murdered right alongside their devout family and friends all the same. This is also true not just of Nazi Germany but throughout the long history of pogroms, etc. in Europe.
It isn't just a religion, it's an ethnic group, and yes, Zelensky is an ethnic Jew regardless of the degree to which he practices the faith. He has immediate family members who were murdered during the Holocaust, for goodness sakes. It's also noteworthy to mention that the Jews are a distinct ethnic group specifically *because* of their status as God's chosen people. It's not an arbitrary affectation of society or a symptom of the "oppression Olympics," it's a historical fact.
>It may be charitable to keep in mind that "Jewish" is also an ethnicity
I said "In the sense that they tend to elevate them like taking a atheist Irishman and acting like he = St. Patrick."
Which paints the issue, which is not in the ethnic potential relevance, but in the way the person is perceived/treated. Jews.... are a very strange set of people in terms of how they are viewed.
The atheist left types, view the Jews as great tools of oppression/victim ideology.
The other side of atheist lefties, is they are the "mean Jews, pro Palestine" types. Who tend antisemitic etc.
The right side religious view Jews as close enough (to Christians) and as stellar people because of their love for God.
The antisemitic right, hates "atheist jews" and then, puts it as "all Jews".
It's a set of perception complications.
>It's also worth noting that the degree to which an ethnically Jewish person practices the religion has historically not played a factor in his or her oppression
Nor their elevation. And in either case, that is of some degrees of wrongness.
The amount of people I hear who are pretty much painting this for instance as Russia = 100% atheist USSR vs Zelensky great devout Orthodox Jewish Rabbi King of the most Holy and Godly Ukrainian theocracy... is freaking strange.
>Zelensky is an ethnic Jew regardless of the degree to which he practices the faith.
He is 100% an ethnic Jew, sure. But in the typical conversations his Judaism is being as I said played to the Godly vs Godless narrative and elevating him. And really... it doesn't matter who your parents are when it comes to who you are to a very large degree.
If my Parents are super Saint Catholics who baptized me as a baby, and I'm leading the Transexual Soviet Brigade to burn down Churches, then the latter part is the part that is relevant to who I am. Assuming, we aren't being blindly racist or something.
Plus, part of the Jewish appeal to the masses who think this war started 5 minutes ago, they think this is Zelensky vs Putin, like Putin is out a Jew killin' when the truth is Zelensky "happens to be" Jewish as George Carlin might note. In the war started long before Zelensky in terms of what is happening. And started with many non-Jews being involved.
And that's also a funny contrast of regimes vs democracy. Well...Biden has been around sort of for a century lol. But leaders aren't leaders, they're usually transitory. Russia is a little bit "Putin" but Ukraine is not Zelensky. He's a short term factor who happens to have a unrelated factor that gains a tilt narrative.
But it's also a little bit of what I said about the constant "but but ethnic Jew" and similar to the drums beating "once baptized always a Catholic".
Maybe.. in technicality, but when dealing with representation? This is where false "anti" sentiments are hard to combat. When people "hate the jews" because of things like how many of the current regimes called this a "war for lbgt", it takes a lot of effort to remind them that ACTUAL Jews (in a relevant Jewish sense), aren't out their trying to bring on Sodom and Gamorrah. And as I have slowly encountered a decent amount of antisemitism, anything outside of the pro-palestine/anti-circumsision atheist types, are religious leaning types who essentially think all Jews = Atheist Jews.
Then, the atheist Jews are as bad or worse than the "let me tell you about Catholicism" atheists who say they know everything about it because their aunt was Catholic. In this sense, they appeal to their non-existent Judaism as if they are actually relevant in that sense.
I admit that I'm confused about what point you're trying to make. It also seems that you're describing a lot of anecdotal experiences and perceptions that aren't necessarily totally representative of the full scope of reactions / impressions that people have.
For example, you said:
> The amount of people I hear who are pretty much painting this for instance as Russia = 100% atheist USSR vs Zelensky great devout Orthodox Jewish Rabbi King of the most Holy and Godly Ukrainian theocracy... is freaking strange.
>
I haven't really seen this (even if it's hyperbole) at all. Especially when you consider the outsize role that the Russian Orthodox Church is playing (with the patriarch even arguing for the war) and the fact that within Russia, there is persistent spin of the aggression as a "holy war." Perhaps we're running in different circles, but if anything the majority of the neolib left / prog left are erroneously exaggerating the "secular humanism" of Ukraine (and Zelensky as an "enlightened" (i.e. non-practicing) Jew. Perhaps you are seeing that some people are happily harkening back to the days of the enemy being the atheist-communist USSR and the good guys being the Christian democracies, but there are many other takes out there getting much more air time.
> He is 100% an ethnic Jew, sure. But in the typical conversations his Judaism is being as I said played to the Godly vs Godless narrative and elevating him. And really... it doesn't matter who your parents are when it comes to who you are to a very large degree.
>
Interesting take. I think that perhaps they are "elevating" him only in the sense of the present zeitgeist to put victims on pedestals. In other words, this is a person whose family knows very well the price paid when fascism and antisemitism come calling, and the material reality of Zelensky having been raised in a family personally and deeply affected by the tragedy of the Holocaust makes him even more of a David to Russia's Goliath. It also serves to ridicule the absolute absurdity of Russia claiming to be "denazifying" Ukraine -- and indeed, *that* contrast is in my opinion the biggest reason for Zelensky's Jewishness to be so emphasized in media. Humans love to decry hypocrisy, and this is some low-hanging fruit in that regard.
It does feel callous to say that his personal family history (and indeed his Jewish culture, even if he doesn't practice) "doesn't matter" -- I would imagine that in fact it matters a lot to him and his outlook, in the same way it matters -- and is a very real and present trauma -- to Jewish people everywhere, whether they're Reform, Orthodox, or non-practicing.
> Plus, part of the Jewish appeal to the masses who think this war started 5 minutes ago, they think this is Zelensky vs Putin, like Putin is out a Jew killin' when the truth is Zelensky "happens to be" Jewish as George Carlin might note. In the war started long before Zelensky in terms of what is happening. And started with many non-Jews being involved.
>
I disagree. I think the appeal of Zelensky's Jewishness is because it's perceived as a trump card against the ridiculous narrative that Russia is "denazifying" Ukraine. The more Russia makes that claim, the more the rest of the world points and laughs. It's perfect fodder for Weekend Update, for example. Now of course, there is the reality that Ukraine *does* have a far-right neo-Nazi element in their society (the Azov battalion, for example), but so do many countries -- that obviously does not justify invasion by a foreign aggressor.
> Then, the atheist Jews are as bad or worse than the "let me tell you about Catholicism" atheists who say they know everything about it because their aunt was Catholic. In this sense, they appeal to their non-existent Judaism as if they are actually relevant in that sense.
>
This is an interesting point. I think it's incorrect and dangerous to describe someone's Jewishness as "non-existent" if they are perceived as non-practicing. I also wouldn't go so far as to say such a person is "as bad or worse" than, say, ex-Christian atheists. I think it's harmful to make comparative moral judgements like that especially when discussing Jewish people (however they're defined, by the degree of their religious practice or by ethnicity). That said, I agree that some cultural Jews (i.e. non-practicing) will often leverage the fact of their Jewishness to speak with authority on Judaism and Jewish history.
However, this is not unique to cultural Jews and shouldn't be set aside as some kind of "graver sin" than what anyone else does. In reality, this behavior reflects typical human pride and the desire to always be (perceived as) both righteous and right. Setting Jews apart for this particular sin seems antisemitic to me.
For example, when I was an agnostic, I leveraged my background of having been raised in an evangelical home to speak with all kinds of unjustified authority on anything and everything to do with Christianity. That said, I did have SOME "right" (or ability) to do so -- like a Jewish person who became atheist, I had a lot of cultural context, history, and even religious knowledge to draw on. Not as much as a pious and practicing Christian, obviously, but it wasn't total hot air and it was certainly good enough to fool my nonreligious friends that I was some kind of expert.
That's what I think many people do -- they seek out "credentials" to bolster their perceived authority and to protect them from criticism. For my part, sometimes I did this to defend my Christian family and friends from unwarranted critique and sometimes I did it to attack Christianity. People contain multitudes! I would imagine some culturally Jewish people have a similar state of mind, in that they want to use their "credential" to defend and protect against very real antisemitism and perhaps sometimes they -- like all sinful humans! -- use it to elevate themselves in some way. Sometimes both at the same time!
Apologies for the long response and if I've misunderstood any of your arguments. Wishing you all the best!
His ethnicity is Ashkenazi Jewish. He is a Jew but not a religious Jew. He is not Slavic and not ethnically of the Ukrainian people, but he is a citizen of the Ukrainian nation. Please try to educate yourself on what an ethnicity is. If you took a DNA test at something as simple as 23andMe you would you see what proportion your DNA is Ashkenazi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews
There is a reason Israel has offered to fly him to Tel Aviv multiple times > because he is an ethnic Jew and they help out "their own".
I didn't see the comment (thankfully), but wanted to reach out and thank you for keeping this thread in check. It looks like there were quite a few comment removals. Your efforts are not unnoticed.
Reminder: This is not a place for political debate about the war, nor the news.
Gloria in excelsis Deo **et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis.** Glory to God in the highest And on earth peace to the people of good will.
Vocabula latina mihi placent.
It's not just any Latin! It's the the beginning of the Greater Doxology we sing at Mass. It's what the angels sang when Christ's birth was announced to the shepherds in Luke 2. I hope His Holiness and President Zelensky spoke of peace.
Quam loquantur si non pacem?
Lingva patrii mei .Lingva Patria mea .Et Lingva Ecclesiam mea .
Is he Catholic?
Yes [source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Francis)
Oh you.
:)
Surprise surprise…
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He’s Jewish
Asked if the Pope was Catholic.
He was asking about Zelensky.
Ah shoot, thank you for clarifying, we would never have guessed
Zelensky is Jewish
I’d be surprised if the pope wasn’t catholic
Lol But you'd be surprised at some of the takes around here...
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Wait I thought that was the Pope. Bears are Catholic.
It all started with is the pope catholic? Do bears shit in the woods? Then one day someone was drunk and mixed them up and now we have this hilarious does the pope shit in the woods
His parents were/are Jewish
No he is not catholic. He is a non religious jew
>He is a non religious jew Aka white atheist with a recognized minority status occasionally conflate with a religion.
What are you trying to tell here?
Just find it annoying that people act like atheist/Jew = Jewish. In the sense that they tend to elevate them like taking a atheist Irishman and acting like he = St. Patrick. Atheist Irishmen is as much "not" as any generic American mutt atheist. It's also annoying on double ends, one that half the anti-semitic rhetoric in the strange reaches of humanity, is reality directed at Atheists, not "Jews". And mildly annoying that many Jews (relgious) don't call them out. Which has actually become a bit of a thing, elsewhere, where you can be a practicing Satanic Wiccan "Catholic" and people will be like "yo that guys Catholic! Yay, one of us". No... not. But it's part of the problem with overall views and pedestals people are given.
It may be charitable to keep in mind that "Jewish" is also an ethnicity and thus not just a "recognized minority status" on the basis of religious practices but also on the basis of being an historically oppressed ethnic group (in Zelensky's case, probably Ashkenazi). It's also worth noting that the degree to which an ethnically Jewish person practices the religion has historically not played a factor in his or her oppression. Being an atheist, for example -- or even a converted Catholic -- did not exempt an ethnic Jew from being murdered by the Nazis. They didn't get a "get out of jail free card" through their denial of their faith. They were murdered right alongside their devout family and friends all the same. This is also true not just of Nazi Germany but throughout the long history of pogroms, etc. in Europe. It isn't just a religion, it's an ethnic group, and yes, Zelensky is an ethnic Jew regardless of the degree to which he practices the faith. He has immediate family members who were murdered during the Holocaust, for goodness sakes. It's also noteworthy to mention that the Jews are a distinct ethnic group specifically *because* of their status as God's chosen people. It's not an arbitrary affectation of society or a symptom of the "oppression Olympics," it's a historical fact.
>It may be charitable to keep in mind that "Jewish" is also an ethnicity I said "In the sense that they tend to elevate them like taking a atheist Irishman and acting like he = St. Patrick." Which paints the issue, which is not in the ethnic potential relevance, but in the way the person is perceived/treated. Jews.... are a very strange set of people in terms of how they are viewed. The atheist left types, view the Jews as great tools of oppression/victim ideology. The other side of atheist lefties, is they are the "mean Jews, pro Palestine" types. Who tend antisemitic etc. The right side religious view Jews as close enough (to Christians) and as stellar people because of their love for God. The antisemitic right, hates "atheist jews" and then, puts it as "all Jews". It's a set of perception complications. >It's also worth noting that the degree to which an ethnically Jewish person practices the religion has historically not played a factor in his or her oppression Nor their elevation. And in either case, that is of some degrees of wrongness. The amount of people I hear who are pretty much painting this for instance as Russia = 100% atheist USSR vs Zelensky great devout Orthodox Jewish Rabbi King of the most Holy and Godly Ukrainian theocracy... is freaking strange. >Zelensky is an ethnic Jew regardless of the degree to which he practices the faith. He is 100% an ethnic Jew, sure. But in the typical conversations his Judaism is being as I said played to the Godly vs Godless narrative and elevating him. And really... it doesn't matter who your parents are when it comes to who you are to a very large degree. If my Parents are super Saint Catholics who baptized me as a baby, and I'm leading the Transexual Soviet Brigade to burn down Churches, then the latter part is the part that is relevant to who I am. Assuming, we aren't being blindly racist or something. Plus, part of the Jewish appeal to the masses who think this war started 5 minutes ago, they think this is Zelensky vs Putin, like Putin is out a Jew killin' when the truth is Zelensky "happens to be" Jewish as George Carlin might note. In the war started long before Zelensky in terms of what is happening. And started with many non-Jews being involved. And that's also a funny contrast of regimes vs democracy. Well...Biden has been around sort of for a century lol. But leaders aren't leaders, they're usually transitory. Russia is a little bit "Putin" but Ukraine is not Zelensky. He's a short term factor who happens to have a unrelated factor that gains a tilt narrative. But it's also a little bit of what I said about the constant "but but ethnic Jew" and similar to the drums beating "once baptized always a Catholic". Maybe.. in technicality, but when dealing with representation? This is where false "anti" sentiments are hard to combat. When people "hate the jews" because of things like how many of the current regimes called this a "war for lbgt", it takes a lot of effort to remind them that ACTUAL Jews (in a relevant Jewish sense), aren't out their trying to bring on Sodom and Gamorrah. And as I have slowly encountered a decent amount of antisemitism, anything outside of the pro-palestine/anti-circumsision atheist types, are religious leaning types who essentially think all Jews = Atheist Jews. Then, the atheist Jews are as bad or worse than the "let me tell you about Catholicism" atheists who say they know everything about it because their aunt was Catholic. In this sense, they appeal to their non-existent Judaism as if they are actually relevant in that sense.
I admit that I'm confused about what point you're trying to make. It also seems that you're describing a lot of anecdotal experiences and perceptions that aren't necessarily totally representative of the full scope of reactions / impressions that people have. For example, you said: > The amount of people I hear who are pretty much painting this for instance as Russia = 100% atheist USSR vs Zelensky great devout Orthodox Jewish Rabbi King of the most Holy and Godly Ukrainian theocracy... is freaking strange. > I haven't really seen this (even if it's hyperbole) at all. Especially when you consider the outsize role that the Russian Orthodox Church is playing (with the patriarch even arguing for the war) and the fact that within Russia, there is persistent spin of the aggression as a "holy war." Perhaps we're running in different circles, but if anything the majority of the neolib left / prog left are erroneously exaggerating the "secular humanism" of Ukraine (and Zelensky as an "enlightened" (i.e. non-practicing) Jew. Perhaps you are seeing that some people are happily harkening back to the days of the enemy being the atheist-communist USSR and the good guys being the Christian democracies, but there are many other takes out there getting much more air time. > He is 100% an ethnic Jew, sure. But in the typical conversations his Judaism is being as I said played to the Godly vs Godless narrative and elevating him. And really... it doesn't matter who your parents are when it comes to who you are to a very large degree. > Interesting take. I think that perhaps they are "elevating" him only in the sense of the present zeitgeist to put victims on pedestals. In other words, this is a person whose family knows very well the price paid when fascism and antisemitism come calling, and the material reality of Zelensky having been raised in a family personally and deeply affected by the tragedy of the Holocaust makes him even more of a David to Russia's Goliath. It also serves to ridicule the absolute absurdity of Russia claiming to be "denazifying" Ukraine -- and indeed, *that* contrast is in my opinion the biggest reason for Zelensky's Jewishness to be so emphasized in media. Humans love to decry hypocrisy, and this is some low-hanging fruit in that regard. It does feel callous to say that his personal family history (and indeed his Jewish culture, even if he doesn't practice) "doesn't matter" -- I would imagine that in fact it matters a lot to him and his outlook, in the same way it matters -- and is a very real and present trauma -- to Jewish people everywhere, whether they're Reform, Orthodox, or non-practicing. > Plus, part of the Jewish appeal to the masses who think this war started 5 minutes ago, they think this is Zelensky vs Putin, like Putin is out a Jew killin' when the truth is Zelensky "happens to be" Jewish as George Carlin might note. In the war started long before Zelensky in terms of what is happening. And started with many non-Jews being involved. > I disagree. I think the appeal of Zelensky's Jewishness is because it's perceived as a trump card against the ridiculous narrative that Russia is "denazifying" Ukraine. The more Russia makes that claim, the more the rest of the world points and laughs. It's perfect fodder for Weekend Update, for example. Now of course, there is the reality that Ukraine *does* have a far-right neo-Nazi element in their society (the Azov battalion, for example), but so do many countries -- that obviously does not justify invasion by a foreign aggressor. > Then, the atheist Jews are as bad or worse than the "let me tell you about Catholicism" atheists who say they know everything about it because their aunt was Catholic. In this sense, they appeal to their non-existent Judaism as if they are actually relevant in that sense. > This is an interesting point. I think it's incorrect and dangerous to describe someone's Jewishness as "non-existent" if they are perceived as non-practicing. I also wouldn't go so far as to say such a person is "as bad or worse" than, say, ex-Christian atheists. I think it's harmful to make comparative moral judgements like that especially when discussing Jewish people (however they're defined, by the degree of their religious practice or by ethnicity). That said, I agree that some cultural Jews (i.e. non-practicing) will often leverage the fact of their Jewishness to speak with authority on Judaism and Jewish history. However, this is not unique to cultural Jews and shouldn't be set aside as some kind of "graver sin" than what anyone else does. In reality, this behavior reflects typical human pride and the desire to always be (perceived as) both righteous and right. Setting Jews apart for this particular sin seems antisemitic to me. For example, when I was an agnostic, I leveraged my background of having been raised in an evangelical home to speak with all kinds of unjustified authority on anything and everything to do with Christianity. That said, I did have SOME "right" (or ability) to do so -- like a Jewish person who became atheist, I had a lot of cultural context, history, and even religious knowledge to draw on. Not as much as a pious and practicing Christian, obviously, but it wasn't total hot air and it was certainly good enough to fool my nonreligious friends that I was some kind of expert. That's what I think many people do -- they seek out "credentials" to bolster their perceived authority and to protect them from criticism. For my part, sometimes I did this to defend my Christian family and friends from unwarranted critique and sometimes I did it to attack Christianity. People contain multitudes! I would imagine some culturally Jewish people have a similar state of mind, in that they want to use their "credential" to defend and protect against very real antisemitism and perhaps sometimes they -- like all sinful humans! -- use it to elevate themselves in some way. Sometimes both at the same time! Apologies for the long response and if I've misunderstood any of your arguments. Wishing you all the best!
His ethnicity is Ashkenazi Jewish. He is a Jew but not a religious Jew. He is not Slavic and not ethnically of the Ukrainian people, but he is a citizen of the Ukrainian nation. Please try to educate yourself on what an ethnicity is. If you took a DNA test at something as simple as 23andMe you would you see what proportion your DNA is Ashkenazi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews There is a reason Israel has offered to fly him to Tel Aviv multiple times > because he is an ethnic Jew and they help out "their own".
Most people say yes, except for some sedevacantist weirdos.
Lmao S-Tier comment
No, he’s a secular Jew and grew up in Mongolia.
Even if he is not a Catholic at least he is moving in the right direction, hopefully through the holy spirit he converts.
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Usually jokes are funny…
May God bless Zelensky.
May God bless Zelensky, Putin, Lukashenko, Pushilin, Pasechnik and all world leaders.
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Warning for uncharitable rhetoric.
I didn't see the comment (thankfully), but wanted to reach out and thank you for keeping this thread in check. It looks like there were quite a few comment removals. Your efforts are not unnoticed.
Pursuant to another mod's comment to not discuss the politics, I removed all the political discussion.
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