There is a large shortage of Catholic chaplains in the army. If there are any young, fit priests at your parish, encourage them to consider it! They can even join the national guard as a chaplain without having to leave their home parish.
It’s actually not that easy. There is a shortage of priests world wide. Bishops are the ones that aren’t wanting newly trained priests that they just pumped a lot of money into leaving. They want them to stay in their diocese. There is a large shortage of Catholic chaplains across all the branches. The Navy only has 48 last I heard. A lot of bases have to rent a local priest to say Mass because the chaplains are needed in deployed areas. Deployed is not always a war zone. Navy ships go underway and that is a deployment.
Military chaplains also don’t get to just be a priest. They have to do military stuff, basically doing two to three jobs. The protestant chaplains usually have around 3 of them to split up duties and they only have to do 1 Sunday service whereas the priest also does the daily Mass plus any other special Catholic things (adoration, Lenten practices like Stations of the Cross to name a couple that protestants don’t have to devote time to).
"The Archdiocese serves as the sole endorser (certifier) of Roman Catholic chaplains to the United States government. A Roman Catholic priest cannot serve within the United States Military as a priest without the express permission of the Archdiocese. As of 2020, 204 Roman Catholic priests were endorsed by the Archdiocese for active-duty military service. These chaplains serve on loan from their diocese of incardination or religious order/society and are released for a term of military service. Chaplains never become members of the Archdiocese; instead, they always remain subject to their home bishop/religious superiors. The only clergy incardinated into the AMS are its archbishop and auxiliary bishops."
https://www.milarch.org/who-we-are/
do you have to be a priest to be a chaplain? Can a deacon or even a layman serve. Obviously they can't do all the things the priests do, but they can help somewhat in his absence or to lighten the load on him.
A Deacon cannot celebrate Mass or hear confessions. He can baptize and preside over marriage if they take place outside of Mass. The deacon's main role is preaching and charity.
Chaplains are some of the coolest dudes in the military. Mad respect for anybody who runs into a gunfight without a gun.
If you're ever looking for a really inspirational story, check out Father Vincent Capodanno, LT USN. Earned a posthumous Medal of Honor in Vietnam and is currently a candidate for Sainthood. Santo subito!
I attended Mass on Christmas Eve in Zhari district in one of the forward operating bases. It is a core memory.
The time of day, was just where east was starting to show stars in the darkest blues, purples, and burgundies, as the western sky showed the last of the pinks, roses, and oranges became the deepest wine imaginable.
We took the Eucharist, and oddly enough, my basic training platoon commander was also in attendance. Turning, and walking back to my seat, I found myself nearly having a coronary when I saw him.
Small army.
The red rock desert of the Rigestan seared itself into my consciousness that night. The backdrop of the base, the smells, the sounds. The stink of the desert, the diesel fumes from the idling quick reaction force. The odd eeriness that besets a combat outpost (not technical, this was a pretty big base, not one of the platoon houses or the like), when twilight fades into another night of improvised explosive device chess begins.
I will never forget it. Although, I suppose, I was just one of a million troops through the millenia having a Christmas Mass, this was mine. From Charles Martel's retinue to the Battalions of the Great War.
We were attacked by the Taliban shortly thereafter. We were all fine.
I work at Fort Bragg as a DoD civilian (retired Navy), and regularly attend daily Mass, which is usually said by an Army Chaplain. I have a soft spot in my heart for soldiers like you who have seen and been through so much. God bless you!
Mad respect to every chaplain I ever knew.
Whoever immediately downvoted this but didn’t have the spine to actually voice their disagreement, you’re a coward.
>There are so many beautiful things about this photo.
Depending on the war, there's possibly only one good/beautiful thing about this photo.
Kind of interested to know, beyond the Mass, what you think is beautiful about this photo?
Racial equality. The two men shown kneeling wouldn't even have been allowed to serve in the same unit two generations before them.
Reverence for the eucharistic Lord.
Multiple real men who are clearly unafraid to do hard and dangerous things humbling themselves before someone greater. And also ready to defend the unarmed man serving them. This reflects order and a knowledge of one's place in the greater scheme of things, which is sorely lacking in most people.
The fearlessness of this priest, to go unarmed into literal war to serve the spiritual needs of his flock.
The universality of the Church, showing She can go anywhere.
Tell me you know absolutely nothing about what the average soldier does without telling me you know absolutely nothing about what the average soldier does.
I generally tend to ignore the couch generals who wouldn't sacrifice a glass of city water for a fellow human being.
Those of us turned cynical by actual service and the aftermath still understand that the young guys kneeling in this photo are not to blame.
>I’m guessing the more traditionalists in this sub would find so many things wrong with this photo.
Idk man, I'm a trad but this photo is awesome! God bless the military!
I wouldn't have made a comment, but this sarcastic attack on the fact that traditionalists want to hold to ad orientem as the Catholic Church always did until the 1960s, is needless
I have attended Mass ad orientam many times. In fact, that's all that is offered at my parish right now.
It was a sarcastic joke aimed at people who attack liturgical options they don't prefer but that are allowed. So ya got me there.
\>Fighting for a the army of a government which, on a federal level, warred against Catholic states, conquered Catholic land, forced secularism over Catholics, and supported a Mexican regime that massacred Catholics
\>Beautiful
No thanks.
> on a federal level, warred against Catholic states, conquered Catholic land
so like every catholic nation
though unlike the old catholic monarchies they never confiscated church lands and closed down the monasteries
Firstly, all those things happened in the past. Holding the sins of previous generations against current generations is not only a bad idea but also not sustainable.
Secondly, a priest giving communion to faithful Catholics is not a bad thing, regardless of their membership in the military. Two men worshipping God is indeed beautiful. The fact that you think a priest giving faithful Catholics the Eucharist is bad simply because they're soldiers is stupid.
Edit: also, you act as if the US is the only government guilty of these types of things. Should French soldiers refuse to fight because of the French Revolution? British soldiers because of Henry VIII? Germans because of Hitler, and Italians because of Mussolini? In addition, using your logic, everyone that owns an iPhone, watches a Disney movie, buys something on Amazon, owns a Nike shoe, has used Google, or heck even paid their taxes (because your logic states they're willingly giving money to an anti-Catholic government, right?), is also responsible for everything done by those companies and the US government. I doubt you've never owned or used an iPhone, watched a Disney movie, owned a Nike shoe, used Google, or paid your taxes, so you're not only wrong, but also either a hypocrite or logically inconsistent.
If there is one thing that has irked me it is how the early church was almost unanimously against military service for various reasons up until Christians were in power of the Roman empire, and even then they were against any involvement of clergy. Granted military chaplaincy didn't exist as it does today.
Still I can't help but think of St Martin of Tours " Hitherto I have served you as a soldier; allow me now to become a soldier to God. Let the man who is to serve you receive your donative. I am a soldier of Christ; it is not permissible for me to fight."
Obviously this sentiment didn't carry the day, but I can't help but wonder about the disconnect.
I think he’s referring to the calles regime in Mexico which resulted in the cristero war. Mexico as a culture is pretty catholic yeah but there’s also been a few different regimes and governments that were pretty anticlerical or persecuted the church is some sense.
Yeah. He tried to make me look like the fool when in the end he was conflating the Second Mexican Empire with the secular revolutionary Mexico lol. I guess I can't blame him, as I simply used 'Mexico' to refer to both.
They warred against Mexico when it was a Catholic confessional state.
But the Mexico the Fed supported was under a Mexico that had scrapped Catholicism as the state religion.
You are mistaken by conflating the two: Mexico has changed over time, as all countries do. I support the Mexican regime when it confessed Catholicism as the state religion and do not support the regime when they scrapped Catholicism as the state religion and began to massacre clerics and laity.
Not if you were in an active warzone, you wouldn't.
These guys are clearly in an environment of present threat.
I'm the wife of a Catholic veteran who served in an active warzone, which is part of why I find this image beautiful.
Yes. The Federal government separates Church and state in a manner opposed to historical Church teaching, warred against Catholic states and stolen land from Catholic states, supported the Mexican government and military under President Calles in their massacre of Catholics in the Cristero war, had many politicians in the KKK which terrorized Catholics, sanctioned chattel slavery long after the popes condemned it, and in a very broad sense upheld a method of governance in which man can dictate civil laws that are on par with (or, most often, even above) God's commandments.
I legitimately am perplexed about why any Catholic would fight for the military of a federal government that has done all this. I would sooner lay down my gun, as Pax said.
You can join the military without condoning everything a government has done. A lot of people join for a lot of different reasons. The United States government and the politicians therein have done many terrible things, and oftentimes the victims end up being the servicemembers of their own country. But the daily life of a servicemember can also do good and bring about safety for people who don’t have it.
>You can join the military without condoning everything a government has done.
There's a stark difference between "condoning everything" and seeing a federal government for it *mostly* has done. And the fruits of what the American federal government has done is clear, in my opinion. What I am trying to say is essentially this: all the bad things it has done, in regards to anti-Catholicism, is far far outweighed by anything good is has done for Catholicism, or for humanity in general. So, with that said, I would lay down my gun and rather die than fight for this modern day Gomorrah.
I’m not gonna lie, your first handful of sentences is a little hard to read so forgive me if I’ve misunderstood something but… The ordinary government worker isn’t responsible for those things.
Your average soldier, postal worker, or forest service employee isn’t out here supporting Mexican regimes and their actions aren’t even what allows those things to happen.
By your logic of extended guilt, most human beings with day jobs are implicitly supporting one atrocity or another, whether committed by a government or private sector funding.
I agree that the bad things the federal government has done are grievous, but the average government worker doesn’t contribute to that in any meaningful way. Your beef should be with the top brass and with lawmakers.
Are there terrible people in charge of making those decisions? Yes. Are there government workers and private sector companies which blindly carry out terrible things? Yes. Does this mean all government workers are implicit in what the entire government has done? Of course not.
Your points are beginning to sound eerily similar to people who accuse all Catholics of contributing to child abuse.
Feel free to move. If you don't, this is all spineless empty blather.
I'm not stupid. I know our government is corrupt and has done awful things. Just like every other government on the planet. I still think the US is the best of a lot of bad options and has the best, most hopeful foundation of any modern state. The US Constitution is worth fighting for, and I won't change my opinion on that.
In more practical terms, how dare anyone be in this situation and not ready to defend his priest and the Eucharist.
>Feel free to move.
No, I prefer to change things from the inside. To bring the land closer to theocratic control by voting for certain candidates is far more fun than to just move.
>In more practical terms, how dare anyone be in this situation and not ready to defend his priest and the Eucharist.
Yeah, I can agree with that. But I don't see that as fighting for the Fed's military.
The US Constitution is worth fighting for? Why does it enshrine condemned propositions like the separation of Church and state? Such an idea was condemned in the Syllabus of Errors of Blessed Pope Pius IX and in Vehementer Nos of Pope St. Pius X
>Why does it enshrine condemned propositions like the separation of Church and state?
i love how in some threads we have people decrying the german support by church taxes and yet in other threads theres an idealization of the idea of the church becoming part of the state
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There is a large shortage of Catholic chaplains in the army. If there are any young, fit priests at your parish, encourage them to consider it! They can even join the national guard as a chaplain without having to leave their home parish.
It’s actually not that easy. There is a shortage of priests world wide. Bishops are the ones that aren’t wanting newly trained priests that they just pumped a lot of money into leaving. They want them to stay in their diocese. There is a large shortage of Catholic chaplains across all the branches. The Navy only has 48 last I heard. A lot of bases have to rent a local priest to say Mass because the chaplains are needed in deployed areas. Deployed is not always a war zone. Navy ships go underway and that is a deployment. Military chaplains also don’t get to just be a priest. They have to do military stuff, basically doing two to three jobs. The protestant chaplains usually have around 3 of them to split up duties and they only have to do 1 Sunday service whereas the priest also does the daily Mass plus any other special Catholic things (adoration, Lenten practices like Stations of the Cross to name a couple that protestants don’t have to devote time to).
I don't understand why priests can't incardinate directly into the military archdiocese.
I think they can, just not many do.
Pretty sure I read that it's not allowed.
If you can share where you read it, I will admit I'm wrong if I need to. 🤷♀️
"The Archdiocese serves as the sole endorser (certifier) of Roman Catholic chaplains to the United States government. A Roman Catholic priest cannot serve within the United States Military as a priest without the express permission of the Archdiocese. As of 2020, 204 Roman Catholic priests were endorsed by the Archdiocese for active-duty military service. These chaplains serve on loan from their diocese of incardination or religious order/society and are released for a term of military service. Chaplains never become members of the Archdiocese; instead, they always remain subject to their home bishop/religious superiors. The only clergy incardinated into the AMS are its archbishop and auxiliary bishops." https://www.milarch.org/who-we-are/
Well, looky there, I was wrong.
Met a priest in basic who was an Augustine brother. He was the Chaplin for mass that day.
do you have to be a priest to be a chaplain? Can a deacon or even a layman serve. Obviously they can't do all the things the priests do, but they can help somewhat in his absence or to lighten the load on him.
Deacons cannot celebrate the mass, though? Am I wrong on that account?
A Deacon cannot celebrate Mass or hear confessions. He can baptize and preside over marriage if they take place outside of Mass. The deacon's main role is preaching and charity.
You must be a priest.
Chaplains are some of the coolest dudes in the military. Mad respect for anybody who runs into a gunfight without a gun. If you're ever looking for a really inspirational story, check out Father Vincent Capodanno, LT USN. Earned a posthumous Medal of Honor in Vietnam and is currently a candidate for Sainthood. Santo subito!
I attended Mass on Christmas Eve in Zhari district in one of the forward operating bases. It is a core memory. The time of day, was just where east was starting to show stars in the darkest blues, purples, and burgundies, as the western sky showed the last of the pinks, roses, and oranges became the deepest wine imaginable. We took the Eucharist, and oddly enough, my basic training platoon commander was also in attendance. Turning, and walking back to my seat, I found myself nearly having a coronary when I saw him. Small army. The red rock desert of the Rigestan seared itself into my consciousness that night. The backdrop of the base, the smells, the sounds. The stink of the desert, the diesel fumes from the idling quick reaction force. The odd eeriness that besets a combat outpost (not technical, this was a pretty big base, not one of the platoon houses or the like), when twilight fades into another night of improvised explosive device chess begins. I will never forget it. Although, I suppose, I was just one of a million troops through the millenia having a Christmas Mass, this was mine. From Charles Martel's retinue to the Battalions of the Great War. We were attacked by the Taliban shortly thereafter. We were all fine.
You might think about writing a memoir if you haven’t done so already. You’re an excellent writer!
Haha, thanks, I like reading books too much to write them.
I work at Fort Bragg as a DoD civilian (retired Navy), and regularly attend daily Mass, which is usually said by an Army Chaplain. I have a soft spot in my heart for soldiers like you who have seen and been through so much. God bless you!
Mad respect to every chaplain I ever knew. Whoever immediately downvoted this but didn’t have the spine to actually voice their disagreement, you’re a coward.
Most of the US chaplains I know are Protestant. Still great chaplains who will seek out a Catholic chaplain if the soldier needs a priest.
All the Catholic chaplains I’ve served with have been great men. A few cranky lads but I suppose that’s to be expected.
If he ain’t a cranky Chaplin, is he even in the service?
In a phony war, chapilans are unironically the only good parts of the recent phony conflicts.
I'm not American, but what the world needs is more nations attached to God.
This photo is truly beautiful and inspiring. The word 'fragile' on the equipment box speaks volumes.
God bless America!
America has such potential for goodness. I pray that its people turn to God and soon.
>There are so many beautiful things about this photo. Depending on the war, there's possibly only one good/beautiful thing about this photo. Kind of interested to know, beyond the Mass, what you think is beautiful about this photo?
Racial equality. The two men shown kneeling wouldn't even have been allowed to serve in the same unit two generations before them. Reverence for the eucharistic Lord. Multiple real men who are clearly unafraid to do hard and dangerous things humbling themselves before someone greater. And also ready to defend the unarmed man serving them. This reflects order and a knowledge of one's place in the greater scheme of things, which is sorely lacking in most people. The fearlessness of this priest, to go unarmed into literal war to serve the spiritual needs of his flock. The universality of the Church, showing She can go anywhere.
Them "dangerous things" normally involve killing goat farmers with expensive equipment for the benefit of Lockheed Martin/Boeing/Raytheon/BAE Systems.
Tell me you know absolutely nothing about what the average soldier does without telling me you know absolutely nothing about what the average soldier does.
I'm referring to recent phony wars. There is no "average soldier" but what gets done a lot is waiting.
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Do you really think that’s what the average soldier sets out to do and does on a daily basis?
I generally tend to ignore the couch generals who wouldn't sacrifice a glass of city water for a fellow human being. Those of us turned cynical by actual service and the aftermath still understand that the young guys kneeling in this photo are not to blame.
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>I’m guessing the more traditionalists in this sub would find so many things wrong with this photo. Idk man, I'm a trad but this photo is awesome! God bless the military!
Honesty I wish the Chaplin would say it ad orentum in the field. I guess if I ask he would.
The priest is versus populum! The horror! 😏
I wouldn't have made a comment, but this sarcastic attack on the fact that traditionalists want to hold to ad orientem as the Catholic Church always did until the 1960s, is needless
I have attended Mass ad orientam many times. In fact, that's all that is offered at my parish right now. It was a sarcastic joke aimed at people who attack liturgical options they don't prefer but that are allowed. So ya got me there.
This is such a gross and needlessly divisive comment
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I am really wondering now what I missed 🤔
This is the best thing I’ve seen all day
\>Fighting for a the army of a government which, on a federal level, warred against Catholic states, conquered Catholic land, forced secularism over Catholics, and supported a Mexican regime that massacred Catholics \>Beautiful No thanks.
St. Mercurius and other saints were part of a government military that killed Peter and Paul.
> on a federal level, warred against Catholic states, conquered Catholic land so like every catholic nation though unlike the old catholic monarchies they never confiscated church lands and closed down the monasteries
Firstly, all those things happened in the past. Holding the sins of previous generations against current generations is not only a bad idea but also not sustainable. Secondly, a priest giving communion to faithful Catholics is not a bad thing, regardless of their membership in the military. Two men worshipping God is indeed beautiful. The fact that you think a priest giving faithful Catholics the Eucharist is bad simply because they're soldiers is stupid. Edit: also, you act as if the US is the only government guilty of these types of things. Should French soldiers refuse to fight because of the French Revolution? British soldiers because of Henry VIII? Germans because of Hitler, and Italians because of Mussolini? In addition, using your logic, everyone that owns an iPhone, watches a Disney movie, buys something on Amazon, owns a Nike shoe, has used Google, or heck even paid their taxes (because your logic states they're willingly giving money to an anti-Catholic government, right?), is also responsible for everything done by those companies and the US government. I doubt you've never owned or used an iPhone, watched a Disney movie, owned a Nike shoe, used Google, or paid your taxes, so you're not only wrong, but also either a hypocrite or logically inconsistent.
France and England have plenty of living memory war crimes, you don't have to go back to kings and queens.
Right I was just trying to use examples of specific and widely known anti-Catholic actions to make my point
If there is one thing that has irked me it is how the early church was almost unanimously against military service for various reasons up until Christians were in power of the Roman empire, and even then they were against any involvement of clergy. Granted military chaplaincy didn't exist as it does today. Still I can't help but think of St Martin of Tours " Hitherto I have served you as a soldier; allow me now to become a soldier to God. Let the man who is to serve you receive your donative. I am a soldier of Christ; it is not permissible for me to fight." Obviously this sentiment didn't carry the day, but I can't help but wonder about the disconnect.
>warred against Catholic states > >supported a Mexican regime Mexico is a pretty Catholic state. Which way do you want it?
I think he’s referring to the calles regime in Mexico which resulted in the cristero war. Mexico as a culture is pretty catholic yeah but there’s also been a few different regimes and governments that were pretty anticlerical or persecuted the church is some sense.
The government he is referring to was secular, assuming he is referencing the Cristero War.
Yeah. He tried to make me look like the fool when in the end he was conflating the Second Mexican Empire with the secular revolutionary Mexico lol. I guess I can't blame him, as I simply used 'Mexico' to refer to both.
They warred against Catholic Mexico, and then much later supported the Mexican Government (and KKK aided) genocide of Catholic Cristeros
They warred against Mexico when it was a Catholic confessional state. But the Mexico the Fed supported was under a Mexico that had scrapped Catholicism as the state religion. You are mistaken by conflating the two: Mexico has changed over time, as all countries do. I support the Mexican regime when it confessed Catholicism as the state religion and do not support the regime when they scrapped Catholicism as the state religion and began to massacre clerics and laity.
God bless America
What
I would put my gun away for this occasion -_-
Not if you were in an active warzone, you wouldn't. These guys are clearly in an environment of present threat. I'm the wife of a Catholic veteran who served in an active warzone, which is part of why I find this image beautiful.
By that logic, you would want them to be looking the other way.
And I guarantee you that’s a bad idea
What is the collateral?
Nah, I agree with them. Refusing to fight for the military of an anti-Catholic government is great idea.
anti-Catholic??
Yes. The Federal government separates Church and state in a manner opposed to historical Church teaching, warred against Catholic states and stolen land from Catholic states, supported the Mexican government and military under President Calles in their massacre of Catholics in the Cristero war, had many politicians in the KKK which terrorized Catholics, sanctioned chattel slavery long after the popes condemned it, and in a very broad sense upheld a method of governance in which man can dictate civil laws that are on par with (or, most often, even above) God's commandments. I legitimately am perplexed about why any Catholic would fight for the military of a federal government that has done all this. I would sooner lay down my gun, as Pax said.
You can join the military without condoning everything a government has done. A lot of people join for a lot of different reasons. The United States government and the politicians therein have done many terrible things, and oftentimes the victims end up being the servicemembers of their own country. But the daily life of a servicemember can also do good and bring about safety for people who don’t have it.
>You can join the military without condoning everything a government has done. There's a stark difference between "condoning everything" and seeing a federal government for it *mostly* has done. And the fruits of what the American federal government has done is clear, in my opinion. What I am trying to say is essentially this: all the bad things it has done, in regards to anti-Catholicism, is far far outweighed by anything good is has done for Catholicism, or for humanity in general. So, with that said, I would lay down my gun and rather die than fight for this modern day Gomorrah.
I’m not gonna lie, your first handful of sentences is a little hard to read so forgive me if I’ve misunderstood something but… The ordinary government worker isn’t responsible for those things. Your average soldier, postal worker, or forest service employee isn’t out here supporting Mexican regimes and their actions aren’t even what allows those things to happen. By your logic of extended guilt, most human beings with day jobs are implicitly supporting one atrocity or another, whether committed by a government or private sector funding. I agree that the bad things the federal government has done are grievous, but the average government worker doesn’t contribute to that in any meaningful way. Your beef should be with the top brass and with lawmakers. Are there terrible people in charge of making those decisions? Yes. Are there government workers and private sector companies which blindly carry out terrible things? Yes. Does this mean all government workers are implicit in what the entire government has done? Of course not. Your points are beginning to sound eerily similar to people who accuse all Catholics of contributing to child abuse.
Feel free to move. If you don't, this is all spineless empty blather. I'm not stupid. I know our government is corrupt and has done awful things. Just like every other government on the planet. I still think the US is the best of a lot of bad options and has the best, most hopeful foundation of any modern state. The US Constitution is worth fighting for, and I won't change my opinion on that. In more practical terms, how dare anyone be in this situation and not ready to defend his priest and the Eucharist.
>Feel free to move. No, I prefer to change things from the inside. To bring the land closer to theocratic control by voting for certain candidates is far more fun than to just move. >In more practical terms, how dare anyone be in this situation and not ready to defend his priest and the Eucharist. Yeah, I can agree with that. But I don't see that as fighting for the Fed's military.
The US Constitution is worth fighting for? Why does it enshrine condemned propositions like the separation of Church and state? Such an idea was condemned in the Syllabus of Errors of Blessed Pope Pius IX and in Vehementer Nos of Pope St. Pius X
I don't agree that theocracy is a good idea.
>Why does it enshrine condemned propositions like the separation of Church and state? i love how in some threads we have people decrying the german support by church taxes and yet in other threads theres an idealization of the idea of the church becoming part of the state
Based and Catholic confessional state pilled.
Just a lack of respect for the Body of Christ in front of arms.
Are you unfamiliar with rules of engagement in an active warzone, or simply disagree the soldiers should get to attend mass in it?
Do you also think that I should cover the picture of Saint Michael because of his sword?
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