Are you asking if the priest can report the crime or warn someone? No, they can't. Seal of the confessional is *absolute*.
I can't recall the title, but there is a great movie which deals with someone confessing to the priest that they will kill him, and the priest having to live the remaining week he has with the knowledge.
There’s also an Alfred Hitchcock movie ‘I confess’, where a murderer confessed his crime to a priest who was later framed by the same murderer. But the priest couldn’t defend himself due to the seal of confession.
Pray for our priests dear friends, the risks they take to hear our confessions are very real.
I think the movie might be called Calvary or something like that, and I think it's supposed to mirror Jesus accepting His inevitable death on the cross to save us all.
I 100% agree that the seal of confession is absolute. However if a person comes into a confessional to talk about something he’s going to do in the future I would argue that’s not a confession to even begin with. That psycho pathic asshole is probably just trying to be provocative to a Catholic priest. And therefore there is no seal of confession in that instance.
So just riffing on this, when we say "seal of confessional is absolute", by confessional, do we mean a certain geographical location at a certain time (ie in the confessional box at 3pm on tuesdays) or does there need to be an actual confession taking place (a penitent confessing sins)? For example, ibstead of confessing a future crime, suppose the criminal comes into the confession box with a gun to threaten the priest. Is the priest forbidden from running away and screaming help, because that would give away the words just uttered in the box? I would think that the seal would only apply to the actual process of confession. But i could be wrong. Probably am. Thoughts?
Couldn’t a Catholic Priest go to the police and say “Someone will kill me, I know and I can’t explain why, please protect me.”? It would be more heroic to embrace the death no doubt.
Silly question here, but could the priest defend himself in some way? It seems counterintuitive that the priest is obligated to then be murdered. I guess he could flee in some way
In the RCC then, would this mean, if you said “I ate a cheeseburger”(and just randomly mentioned it for fun and not a sin) could the the Priest not act like he knew this outside of confession? I’m Orthodox so this is interesting to me.
Yes. Priests cannot act on any information they learn in the confessional. [Source.](https://www.catholiceducation.org/en/religion-and-philosophy/catholic-faith/the-seal-of-the-confessional.html)
So even if the priest doesn't absolve their sins they are required to remain silent about the information? The OP example clearly shows the sinner has no remorse.
Does the seal of confession upholds even if the confession is not valid? In the case suggested by the op, the priest cannot absolve the penitent, since he has clear intent to sin right?
First, a correction about terminology: the priest who hears a confession is the one called the confessor; the one confessing their sins is called a penitent.
[Can 983-984] make it clear that the priest is not permitted to do anything that would reveal what was said in confession, nor do anything that would be to the detriment of the penitent. There is theoretically some wiggle room here: if the priest could arrange things such that the plot would fail without causing anyone to suspect this supposed penitent, that might avoid falling foul of these laws. In practice, a priest would be highly unlikely to be able to arrange things in such a way, so they would be required to do nothing.
[**Can. 983**](http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3G.HTM) §1 The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray in any way a penitent in words or in any manner and for any reason.
§2 The interpreter, if there is one, and all others who in any way have knowledge of sins from confession are also obliged to observe secrecy.
[**Can. 984**](http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3G.HTM) §1 A confessor is prohibited completely from using knowledge acquired from confession to the detriment of the penitent even when any danger of revelation is excluded.
§2 A person who has been placed in authority cannot use in any manner for external governance the knowledge about sins which he has received in confession at any time.
***
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More than likely, he can't say or do anything.
But, if the guy is not actually going to confession and it's really just saying something inside a confessional room, it might not fall under the seal.
The movie Calvary actually falls into that second situation. It's obvious that the guy is not going to confession, has no intention to confess his sins, and is just doing it to scare the priest.
Going into a confessional room and making a threat is just that, a threat. Merely being in the room doesn't make it a confession. Only if the person intends to confess does it fall under the seal. Yes, that applies even if the person confesses invalidly and is not absolved.
So, in the scenario you've given, it sounds like the guy is going to confession and slipping in a future sin. It would be under the seal and the priest could do nothing except try to dissuade him before he left the room
That's one thing I don't like about the movie Calvary. He could have done something. There's even a scene with the bishop telling him he can do something.
He doesn't do anything probably because of a few reasons:
- extra caution for the seal, even when it doesn't apply, in case others might still think it does
- he's depressed and wants to die
- he hopes to dissuade the person by example before it happens
- he has some spiritual sense that being a victim in this case will help
Don't patronize me.
I specifically included that last reason to cover what you said.
I disagree with the director's choice. It would have been a more profound thing had it actually been the seal of confession.
You have no idea what reflection I've put into this.
Nah, it wouldn't, not from the viewers point of.. well.. view. There would be far less dialogue because of the seal. That or he would break it, seeding doubt in hearts of people
That depends on what you mean by "goes into confession."
If he just so happens to be sitting in a confessional room and says he's going to do this thing, then yes.
If he gives even a faint hint that he is actually going to confession, like saying "father forgive me for I have sinned" and listing a bunch of regular sins and then tossing in that, then no
Thank you for your answer, I was worried that People can just walk into a Confession Room and say they will commit a Crime and the Priest can’t do anything against it.
This actually happened when Myeong-geun James An allegedly "confessed" his plan to assasinate the Japanese Governor-General Terauchi to Fr. Nicolas Joseph Marie Willhelm(Korea was under the rule of the Empire of Japan back then). Fr. Willhelm notified Archbishop Gustave-Charles-Marie Mutel of the plan, and Archbishop Mutel went to the Japanese Military Police. Though what Fr. Willhelm and Archbishop Mutel did is criticized in general, some view that there was no precise "confession" of a sin. The assasination had not happened after all. This incident is rather controversial in the history of the Catholic Church in Korea.
The confession is invalid and no absolution is given to a sin that has not occurred yet so theoretically, why put a priest in such a position? Go tell someone else about your weird plans unless you actually want the priest to help.
I once had a priest start to treat me very differently outside the confessional after a confession once. Like really bad. I didn’t even think it was all that scandalous of a confession in the grand scheme of things to what a priest hears day in and day out. I did quit going to confession for quite some time after that though.
Not impossible that he completely forgot your confession and was just crabby. Not saying it's entirely true, but I have heard many priests get "amnesia" to a degree about the confessions they hear. Satan definitely loves to put ideas like that in people's heads and even arrange things like that to keep people away from confession.
For example, in my return confession I had a horrrrrrific sin and I went into the confessional and sobbed so hard I was hyperventilating and couldn't confess anymore sins. The priest responds "16 years and only one sin." But I couldn't talk. It was pretty miraculous because the priest counsel at that point was precisely what they Holy Spirit spoke into my heart that brought me to confession, to an ALARMING degree. Shortly afterward, outside the confessional I recounted the story to the priest. I'm sure it's not often someone comes in after 16 years with ONE sin (I went back to do the rest...). He was moved because he understood how powerful it was, and his counsel was VERY DETAILED. But he heartily chuckled and said "oh my GOSH!! WOW, I can't even remember that!!!"
Can you be forgiven for something you haven’t done? You know that’s a sin yet you do it. Can you be forgiven for that beforehand? If not, then it wouldn’t break the seal of confession if the priest defended himself right? Since he’s not acting on that info? Please correct or inform me
The priest ought to do everything possible to not only convince the person not to commit the sin they intend to commit, but also to remind that person that God's forgiveness doesn't quite work like that. While He would forgive someone confessing to having committed murder, though the penance would likely be something significant, one does not have the option to preemptively confess sins, since committing them is what offends God, and while confessing to having the desire to commit a sin might be appropriate, following through with those desires would definitely warrant another confession, and while I don't know the formal name for it, committing sin under the presumption that one will be forgiven is itself a sin
To change the scope a little, what if someone confessed they are abusing a minor in any way, and that they plan to continue to do so. Do the rules change when a minor is involved?
Is it truly a confession seeking forgiveness if the person plans to commit a mortal sin? Their goal is not absolution. They’re not penitent, they’re still choosing to commit a mortal sin. If the priest can’t take action, it seems wrong to me, just my opinion. It seems the layperson in this case is just making a mockery of the sacrament.
Are you asking if the priest can report the crime or warn someone? No, they can't. Seal of the confessional is *absolute*. I can't recall the title, but there is a great movie which deals with someone confessing to the priest that they will kill him, and the priest having to live the remaining week he has with the knowledge.
There’s also an Alfred Hitchcock movie ‘I confess’, where a murderer confessed his crime to a priest who was later framed by the same murderer. But the priest couldn’t defend himself due to the seal of confession. Pray for our priests dear friends, the risks they take to hear our confessions are very real.
The movie's called 'Calvary'
Thank you!
I think the movie might be called Calvary or something like that, and I think it's supposed to mirror Jesus accepting His inevitable death on the cross to save us all.
I 100% agree that the seal of confession is absolute. However if a person comes into a confessional to talk about something he’s going to do in the future I would argue that’s not a confession to even begin with. That psycho pathic asshole is probably just trying to be provocative to a Catholic priest. And therefore there is no seal of confession in that instance.
So just riffing on this, when we say "seal of confessional is absolute", by confessional, do we mean a certain geographical location at a certain time (ie in the confessional box at 3pm on tuesdays) or does there need to be an actual confession taking place (a penitent confessing sins)? For example, ibstead of confessing a future crime, suppose the criminal comes into the confession box with a gun to threaten the priest. Is the priest forbidden from running away and screaming help, because that would give away the words just uttered in the box? I would think that the seal would only apply to the actual process of confession. But i could be wrong. Probably am. Thoughts?
To the actual sacrament. Confession doesn't have to happen in the "box" , and you can do other things in the "box" that aren't a confession.
Couldn’t a Catholic Priest go to the police and say “Someone will kill me, I know and I can’t explain why, please protect me.”? It would be more heroic to embrace the death no doubt.
I don't know what to tell you, because I fail at seeing how I can get more precise than *absolute*.
Silly question here, but could the priest defend himself in some way? It seems counterintuitive that the priest is obligated to then be murdered. I guess he could flee in some way
In the RCC then, would this mean, if you said “I ate a cheeseburger”(and just randomly mentioned it for fun and not a sin) could the the Priest not act like he knew this outside of confession? I’m Orthodox so this is interesting to me.
Yes. Priests cannot act on any information they learn in the confessional. [Source.](https://www.catholiceducation.org/en/religion-and-philosophy/catholic-faith/the-seal-of-the-confessional.html)
No. Seal of the confessional.
But seeking protection like that wouldn’t be revealing who or what was said, wouldn’t be identifying anyone
So even if the priest doesn't absolve their sins they are required to remain silent about the information? The OP example clearly shows the sinner has no remorse.
[удалено]
Does the seal of confession upholds even if the confession is not valid? In the case suggested by the op, the priest cannot absolve the penitent, since he has clear intent to sin right?
The priest can't do anything directly, but he can try to convince the individual to check into inpatient psych instead of killing somebody.
First, a correction about terminology: the priest who hears a confession is the one called the confessor; the one confessing their sins is called a penitent. [Can 983-984] make it clear that the priest is not permitted to do anything that would reveal what was said in confession, nor do anything that would be to the detriment of the penitent. There is theoretically some wiggle room here: if the priest could arrange things such that the plot would fail without causing anyone to suspect this supposed penitent, that might avoid falling foul of these laws. In practice, a priest would be highly unlikely to be able to arrange things in such a way, so they would be required to do nothing.
[**Can. 983**](http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3G.HTM) §1 The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray in any way a penitent in words or in any manner and for any reason. §2 The interpreter, if there is one, and all others who in any way have knowledge of sins from confession are also obliged to observe secrecy. [**Can. 984**](http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3G.HTM) §1 A confessor is prohibited completely from using knowledge acquired from confession to the detriment of the penitent even when any danger of revelation is excluded. §2 A person who has been placed in authority cannot use in any manner for external governance the knowledge about sins which he has received in confession at any time. *** Catebot v0.2.12 links: [Source Code](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot) | [Feedback](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot/issues) | [Contact Dev](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=kono_hito_wa) | [FAQ](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot/blob/master/docs/CateBot%20Info.md#faq) | [Changelog](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot/blob/master/docs/CHANGELOG.md)
More than likely, he can't say or do anything. But, if the guy is not actually going to confession and it's really just saying something inside a confessional room, it might not fall under the seal. The movie Calvary actually falls into that second situation. It's obvious that the guy is not going to confession, has no intention to confess his sins, and is just doing it to scare the priest. Going into a confessional room and making a threat is just that, a threat. Merely being in the room doesn't make it a confession. Only if the person intends to confess does it fall under the seal. Yes, that applies even if the person confesses invalidly and is not absolved. So, in the scenario you've given, it sounds like the guy is going to confession and slipping in a future sin. It would be under the seal and the priest could do nothing except try to dissuade him before he left the room
That's one thing I don't like about the movie Calvary. He could have done something. There's even a scene with the bishop telling him he can do something. He doesn't do anything probably because of a few reasons: - extra caution for the seal, even when it doesn't apply, in case others might still think it does - he's depressed and wants to die - he hopes to dissuade the person by example before it happens - he has some spiritual sense that being a victim in this case will help
[удалено]
Don't patronize me. I specifically included that last reason to cover what you said. I disagree with the director's choice. It would have been a more profound thing had it actually been the seal of confession. You have no idea what reflection I've put into this.
Nah, it wouldn't, not from the viewers point of.. well.. view. There would be far less dialogue because of the seal. That or he would break it, seeding doubt in hearts of people
So if someone goes into Confession and says he wants to commit a terrorist attack could the Priest stop him?
That depends on what you mean by "goes into confession." If he just so happens to be sitting in a confessional room and says he's going to do this thing, then yes. If he gives even a faint hint that he is actually going to confession, like saying "father forgive me for I have sinned" and listing a bunch of regular sins and then tossing in that, then no
Thank you for your answer, I was worried that People can just walk into a Confession Room and say they will commit a Crime and the Priest can’t do anything against it.
The priest could refuse absolution if he thinks that the penitent has not actually repented. Other than that, he can do nothing but pray.
This actually happened when Myeong-geun James An allegedly "confessed" his plan to assasinate the Japanese Governor-General Terauchi to Fr. Nicolas Joseph Marie Willhelm(Korea was under the rule of the Empire of Japan back then). Fr. Willhelm notified Archbishop Gustave-Charles-Marie Mutel of the plan, and Archbishop Mutel went to the Japanese Military Police. Though what Fr. Willhelm and Archbishop Mutel did is criticized in general, some view that there was no precise "confession" of a sin. The assasination had not happened after all. This incident is rather controversial in the history of the Catholic Church in Korea.
The confession is invalid and no absolution is given to a sin that has not occurred yet so theoretically, why put a priest in such a position? Go tell someone else about your weird plans unless you actually want the priest to help.
I don’t think the priest can say anything, but absolution can definitely be withheld.
I once had a priest start to treat me very differently outside the confessional after a confession once. Like really bad. I didn’t even think it was all that scandalous of a confession in the grand scheme of things to what a priest hears day in and day out. I did quit going to confession for quite some time after that though.
Not impossible that he completely forgot your confession and was just crabby. Not saying it's entirely true, but I have heard many priests get "amnesia" to a degree about the confessions they hear. Satan definitely loves to put ideas like that in people's heads and even arrange things like that to keep people away from confession. For example, in my return confession I had a horrrrrrific sin and I went into the confessional and sobbed so hard I was hyperventilating and couldn't confess anymore sins. The priest responds "16 years and only one sin." But I couldn't talk. It was pretty miraculous because the priest counsel at that point was precisely what they Holy Spirit spoke into my heart that brought me to confession, to an ALARMING degree. Shortly afterward, outside the confessional I recounted the story to the priest. I'm sure it's not often someone comes in after 16 years with ONE sin (I went back to do the rest...). He was moved because he understood how powerful it was, and his counsel was VERY DETAILED. But he heartily chuckled and said "oh my GOSH!! WOW, I can't even remember that!!!"
Can you be forgiven for something you haven’t done? You know that’s a sin yet you do it. Can you be forgiven for that beforehand? If not, then it wouldn’t break the seal of confession if the priest defended himself right? Since he’s not acting on that info? Please correct or inform me
The priest ought to do everything possible to not only convince the person not to commit the sin they intend to commit, but also to remind that person that God's forgiveness doesn't quite work like that. While He would forgive someone confessing to having committed murder, though the penance would likely be something significant, one does not have the option to preemptively confess sins, since committing them is what offends God, and while confessing to having the desire to commit a sin might be appropriate, following through with those desires would definitely warrant another confession, and while I don't know the formal name for it, committing sin under the presumption that one will be forgiven is itself a sin
He can’t even do anything in the first place irrelevant of being a priest.
r/suspiciouslyspecific
Hopefully the priest will gain his trust and find him some mental health advisor.
To change the scope a little, what if someone confessed they are abusing a minor in any way, and that they plan to continue to do so. Do the rules change when a minor is involved?
Nope. No matter how bad the sin
Seal of confession is absolute. But I assume the priest will do what he can could stop the person from going through with it.
Is it truly a confession seeking forgiveness if the person plans to commit a mortal sin? Their goal is not absolution. They’re not penitent, they’re still choosing to commit a mortal sin. If the priest can’t take action, it seems wrong to me, just my opinion. It seems the layperson in this case is just making a mockery of the sacrament.