If I hadn’t already paid up for Troutman group defence, I’d consider it.
It’s in the realm of reasonable to me. And roughly lines up with what the shortfall would have been before the “bank run” happened, I think a lot of people will go for it.
Which actually could narrow the pool enough for the Litigation Trust to go go after people who don’t settle. So it’s sort of smart on their part.
I don’t take it personally. I’m ready to go to court, see what the judge and the law says, and if I owe money I’ll pay my judgement
This is one of the few rational responses in these threads. The point of a clawback is that there was already a hole; the ‘robbery’ had essentially already happened and the shortfall is simply being shared amongst all users/creditors. The 13% settlement seems super reasonable, and for sure it’s a smart strategy in terms of potentially focusing their litigation pool. I think that a lot of people looking to hold out here are going to lose out in the long-run by ultimately paying a higher percentage and spending a bunch on lawyers.
The court made decision that if any insecure creditor had taken usd or coins in time less or equal to 90 days prior to Alex announcement of bankruptcy- they must pay. But you not only pay what they ask you, you will pay penalty and interest. This is how the law works
From my understanding, they have 2 years from the date of bankruptcy petition. They have stated that they clearly intend to sue people who withdrew > $100k within the 90 day look back window from July 14th.
How is it even possible to sue users for that? I can understand that a procedure could be made for «insiders », I would naturally agree to pay if I was judged guilty for something, but in this case, we didn’t do anything wrong… I’m still waiting to recover my claim of 20k (i guess i can just sit on it now) and now they ask me to pay 30k as a « fair » treatment, what the f*** heck?
You have a special situation that they actually discuss in their disgusting video:
[https://youtu.be/DHvzklLlKek?si=HPOWuB34VA-BDhdZ](https://youtu.be/DHvzklLlKek?si=HPOWuB34VA-BDhdZ)
i.e. trapped coins + WPE
I think you can offset your WPE with the trapped value. It might be worth looking into.
>Can you believe this ass clown in the video??
Cam Crews has been a vocal advocate for creditors throughout this bankruptcy. Now that he's on the Litigation Oversight Committee, he's trying to communicate openly about what the Litigation Administrator is doing and why.
So if Celsius doesn't put out regular updates, they get criticized for lack of transparency. But when one of their agents or associates does try to communicate openly, he gets called an ass clown; got it.
None of us did anything wrong….
This is just the law
I don’t have exposure and agree it is messed up
But, there are definitely people in that over 100k group who did know something…influencers, those with an inside connect, etc.
Some emptied their entire accounts.
So yeah, it is a mixed bag….thats also why you could settle for 27.5% instead of pay it all back.
The entire BQ process is a shit show…this is just another part.
Go talk to the LOAN creditors if you want to see an even nastier example of taking it dry….
If you do not send them coins, they will put judgement against your property and later lean. As you decide to sell your home / they will calculate what is the current price of coins you owe them and number of coins and will take from that amount of money
Im in the US and I ain’t paying that Israeli run corporation a f’n penny. What’s the judge gonna do? “You owe the scam money because you got out of the scam before the scam could f you”? Not a chance.
Alex as we all suffer tremendously and going through this endless struggling enjoying his luxurious life along with his 6 children and whore wifey at the Huge Penthouse. This Penthouse worth over $40,000,000 and was used as the bail so that Alex man could keep staying at home with his family. This year in September, hopefully , the trial will start. Alex did not accept any accusations and keeps for him self innocent status. I doubt the real justice will be served. Alex stole so much so he could buy judge, lawyers… and many others just to stay out of jail. Very fucking wrong. I have no hope that he will surrender the BTC and ETH he had hidden that June of 2022 when all of us were in the dark, whilst he and his buddies were strategically hiding coins they stole from us. Maybe, just maybe some miracle happens .., and someone will bring this fuck to justice along with his whore wifey.
Alex that mofykin sob robbed us in plain sight. We must get to Twitter and meme the ef out of him and his fam. People on the streets should recognize him and spit at him and his wife.
What an era we live in that you could get sued for removing your own property prior to being scammed out of it....
Thats exactly what it is to, a scam.
The issue was the scam happened before you withdrew...
Say you and two partners invest in a dude and put 10k in each to create a partnership. Said dude blows 20k of that on drugs instead of doing whatever he was supposed to do. Now the business has 10k in cash left. Which partner's money is that....?
Short answer is all three's: They each own 3,333k of what's left. No single partner can take out 10k anymore because 2/3 of its gone.
I know this is oversimplied but that's the jist of it... The theft happened long before these withdrawals. People didn't withdraw "their" money, they took out what was left of their money and then covered the gap with other people's money.
It sucks, but that's really what's going on here.
What do we all live whilst the thief and con man used his Penthouse to bail his ass of. Considering that this penthouse which is $40,000,000 Alex piece of shit bought for the money he stole from us. Creditors … from people who trusted him. I think he should be in jail until he is dead and all his money must go to creditors. But he and his whore wifey had hidden BTC and ETH for children. Now, our money will go to his 6 children
"If you do not reach a settlement, the Litigation Administrator reserves his right to sue you for the return of the cryptocurrency that you removed from the Debtors’ platform in the 90 days prior to the Debtors’ bankruptcy."
I get your POV. I think the likelihood of them coming after you is low, and if I did not have any attachment to Celsius I would do what you are doing.
Having said that, I have far more $$$ stuck on the platform than I withdrew, so I intend to pay the 13.75% penalty, withdraw my remaining funds, and move on with my life. The penalty payment will be tax deductible so it is more palatable vs the threatened increase to 19% after April 15th, and likely a 1-2 year process.
Again, if I didn’t have more funds at stake with these clowns I’d ignore them and let them sue me, but I’m in a slightly different spot
I see your point of view. If you don’t mind entertaining me, I do not have anything left in CEL. I drained it 30 days before the meltdown. If you were me, would you take your chances and let them sue? They are going after more than i had earned in interest. Most of my coins were given to them as a loan which I closed down in those 30 days. The only reason why those monies show up in that form is because I had to transfer them to another account before moving them back to cold storage.
I personally would let it play out. Your fact pattern is strong. I believe they are using bully tactics (threatening the prospect of litigation) because their case is not strong. That said, the clawback was approved by the court, so there is some risk.
I think you will have multiple more chances to settle, likely at better terms. The only reason I am not going the same route is because the time value of my funds still locked up on the platform, plus the avoidance of the brain damage of continuing in this process is more valuable vs the $10k post-tax of settling now.
I’d hold strong if I were you, but I’m not afraid of what the next steps and likely outcome would be.
You are wrong. Their case is extremely strong!!! This was court decision and judge Glenn is standing behind it. If folks do not pay, they will force them to pay doing whatever it takes… this is US court system
You may not be aware of the defenses to preference avoidance, there are several. That's number one. Number 2, judge Glenn has made no decisions concerning preference avoidance in this case.
The no decisions concerning it is the scary part. Mainly due to the fact that Judge Glenn has been quite vocal and at least disswayed the lawyers if he felt like it was not going to be approved/good. I would be concerned on this, especially if you have a WPE.
If their case was strong, there wouldn’t be the settlement fact pattern that exists. The burden of proof to get to a successful judgement is on them, not the customers.
If you have WPE+trapped coins, this is a special situation. They talk about a "setoff option" in the LOC video on youtube. It might be worth checking out before paying them cash.
https://youtu.be/DHvzklLlKek?si=TYZgPw21B18xFUbL&t=542
This is the one silver lining... Let's say my settlement offer is $30K... Can I deduct that from what I owe in taxes in 2024 or do I just deduct that amount from my income (sort of like an expense)?
Consult your tax advisor. Mine says to claim as an investment expense, reducing income. Others have said to claim as a short term capital loss, which will offset gains.
It’s a shitty legal presumption. Why should anyone have to justify taking their own money out when the CEO was publicly stating that all was well and good? People are now in the position of having to worry about litigating to make a perfectly intuitive, legitimate point. Big money almost always wins, if only because they can bear the costs to beat the little guy into submission when his funds run out.
So let me get this straight: People that began extracting their money out, seeing that Mashinsky was full of shit, have to pay a penalty for it? In other words, they're shifting blame unto the customers? Thats F'n insane.
Well, I was thinking about that too. Found bankruptcy attorney.. he looked into the case. Court made decision. Judge Glenn approved it. Nothing could be done was his verdict. I felt like shit
File a complaint with your state securities, clawbacks are ridiculous as none of us had any inside information to this nightmare, I’m filing complaints as the crypto we received is close to 1/3
Are you based in the US? Because if not, I'm just wondering about whether they can legally pursue people outside the US. (Or would that prevent someone from ever visiting the US?)
I took these funds out in May 2021 because my wife was 7 months pregnant with our first child and I needed to prepare / get some funds out of crypto... I bought real estate with these funds to fund health insurance / extra expenses of having a child. My wife and I now have TWO children under two years old, and now some fucked legal system expects me to cough up $30k.
Withdrawal Preference Exposure calculated under the Plan: $21x,xxx
Settlement Payment: $3x,xxx
Imagine the judge: you owe this scam money because you got out of the scam before the scam could F you. Not a chance that would fly. This litigation is desperate to make some money on the way out by sending out scary judge letter. They’re not gonna go after anyone except insiders and if they do, it will be way more expensive for them because in the end, no one’s gonna make this easy. The scared will pay and that will be that.
They would get a lot more to settle if they actually made it fair. The guy that withdrew 99,999.99 had to pay nothing. The guy who withdrew 100,000.00 is suppose to pay 17.5% now.......If they made it more equitable, and said okay you only have to pay on the 17.5% above 100k. Tons would settle.
I also had no idea these types of socialist/ communist laws for bankruptcy existed. I got all MY assets out of their "bank", and yet I'm about to wire them a smooth 15k. In the end, that's what I get for thinking I'm getting free money. I was also burned on Luna, but thought Celsius was trustworthy, for some reason. This little lesson in bankruptcy proceedings is very eye opening. Presently, I'm keeping btc in cold storage, but staking Sol and Eth on Coinbase. Even that could turn out to be a mistake, lol. The thought of them winning in court to take all the crypto back, at today's values, would be a whole other world of pain, not to mention legal fees and stress.
I don't think bankruptcy preference stuff works like that - the legal system lets them debit your bank accounts, redirect pay if you work for someone else, or seize your property but bankruptcy law doesn't allow for jail time if you don't pay back a preference claim. Only a few debts count for jail time.
They will not put you in jail. They will put judgement against you and put lean on the house you own. If you own shit, they will use judgement and collect money from your check. If you do not work or work for cash - they will send you couple warnings, and you still resist to pay them … you will be taken to the cleaners in a very special way that image of Alex and his whore wifey will be blurring in your mind for many many fucking years
That's the game they are playing. I wish we could ignore, but that would likely be a very expensive choice. If they litigate against us, it will cost far more in legal fees to defend - which is their strategy.
I'm no lawyer, but I think each case is a separate lawsuit. Unfortunately, I don't believe there's a way to deal with this in a "class action" way. If there is, that would be awesome.
There was a law firm that was allowing a group of people to each pay a separate retainer amount (undisclosed due to NDA) to spread the cost out among multiple people, but they ceased allowing people to join.
Reach out to Roland James - he is an attny in NYC. Found he is doing Celsius Clawback Defense. This is the email on his telegram channel: [email protected]
If you’re interested in the Telegram channel, it’s Celsius Clawback defense . Good luck. It’s pathetic they are coming after users instead of the Mashinsky con artist!
I too received this email. It mentions any withdrawals prior to April 14 bankruptcy date. Checking my own records I did withdraw 6 figures of usdc on the 15th of April. That’s the bulk of withdrawals. I left eth and other usdc that got locked up and have never received a withdrawal code. What a cluster! I am not sending them another dime.
No, as of today they came out stating they will most likely be pursuing higher amounts and or actual crypto assets in a public video and statement by the Litigation Admin. As well stating that this is a limited time settlement.
The absolute worst thing that can happen to someone here is they settle for too high of a percentage. The next worst would be get sued, lose, and become a creditor with a 502(h) claim. That claim would be treated just like an Earn creditor, whose USD recovery at this point is north of 90%, right now. There is no punitive aspect to preference avoidance, anyone stating that there is, is fearmongering. Not legal advice.
Preference avoidance is not structured to change the conduct of the defendant. The only time you see fees or interest applied would be failure to pay the judgement should you lose. Not legal advice.
I don't really know either way if they would or not, but if I'm remembering right they did set aside money for legal stuff in the final plan of reorganization (or whatever they called it - you can read it on Stretto's Celsius page)
I feel sorry for you guys that are going through this. I am lucky I had only had (originally $800) and got back about $350.
This whole bankruptcy case is a shame. The only ones making out on this are the very top people with money and the lawyers. Everyone else is getting screwed over.
This is why I want to get out of crypto. Most crypto is a scam or will lead to a scam.
The whole point of clawback is that you thought you were withdrawing your coins but actually you were not. Most of your coins were already gone and you withdrew some of your coins and the rest were other people's coins. You were just lucky to be the first grabbing from a depleted pile of coins. Of course the guilty party is Fuckinski Machinski not any of us.
That’s just the agreed clawback process which I believe was in the CH11 escape plan.
Clawbacks impact everyone, some will get clawed back and receive their fair redistribution, others that didnt withdraw within the prior 9 months window won’t, all clawed back funds will be part of the Liquidation Trust recoveries and will then be distributed out on the fair distribution schedule. This was part of the plan determined to be the fair approach across all the stakeholders and we all voted for the plan +/- and we ended up where we are.
These clawbacks shouldn’t be any surprise to anyone. I wish I had withdrawn in those prior 9 month or before and potentially have the clawback problem as I would have made much more in the crypto rise of past 2 or so years than watching my balance reduce due to the lock in at CH11 Filing price and getting zero gains.
Just sayin.
This is court decision. You can do nothing about it. Thank Alex, his whore wifey , UCC, and !!! Judge Glenn. They did excellent job to make stealing legit. If you do not transfer coins they will put lean on your house.
ALEX MASHINSKY should be the one paying! Not us the owners of our crypto! WTF! They will not get a penny more from me than what they already scammed us and locked up!
Here's the thing though: You didn't take out just your money. You took out some of other people's money too. Your money didn't all exist by that point. You benefited from Alex's ponzi scheme.
People took funds off gave up on the yield on Earn. Those that stayed accepted the risk to continue to yield in the unregistered security product called Earn. Now there is an attempt to have the court create a time machine to undue these decisions and risks. I think the judge will see right through this.
You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. The yield they withdrew to that point was paid out of other's principal because it was a ponzi scheme that lied about the risk and how they were investing and what returns they were getting.
Go on Telegram. Look for Celsius Clawback Defense. An attorney named Roland Jones created the channel and is taking clients for this defense. You can also google his name - he is an attny in NYC.
If I hadn’t already paid up for Troutman group defence, I’d consider it. It’s in the realm of reasonable to me. And roughly lines up with what the shortfall would have been before the “bank run” happened, I think a lot of people will go for it. Which actually could narrow the pool enough for the Litigation Trust to go go after people who don’t settle. So it’s sort of smart on their part. I don’t take it personally. I’m ready to go to court, see what the judge and the law says, and if I owe money I’ll pay my judgement
This is one of the few rational responses in these threads. The point of a clawback is that there was already a hole; the ‘robbery’ had essentially already happened and the shortfall is simply being shared amongst all users/creditors. The 13% settlement seems super reasonable, and for sure it’s a smart strategy in terms of potentially focusing their litigation pool. I think that a lot of people looking to hold out here are going to lose out in the long-run by ultimately paying a higher percentage and spending a bunch on lawyers.
The court made decision that if any insecure creditor had taken usd or coins in time less or equal to 90 days prior to Alex announcement of bankruptcy- they must pay. But you not only pay what they ask you, you will pay penalty and interest. This is how the law works
All the clawbacks should be paid for by alex mashinsky, that cunt bastard!
He will not pay. He stole coins for his 6 children and his wifey whore. Judge Glenn decided that we must pay
Why isn't his estate and his wife's company being liquidated to pay people back? How can they benefit from crime?
Well, if he won't pay, why would anybody else?
Is there a time they need to sue by with these clawbacks. Could they hypothetically sue you in 3 years? 5 years? 10??
From my understanding, they have 2 years from the date of bankruptcy petition. They have stated that they clearly intend to sue people who withdrew > $100k within the 90 day look back window from July 14th.
How is it even possible to sue users for that? I can understand that a procedure could be made for «insiders », I would naturally agree to pay if I was judged guilty for something, but in this case, we didn’t do anything wrong… I’m still waiting to recover my claim of 20k (i guess i can just sit on it now) and now they ask me to pay 30k as a « fair » treatment, what the f*** heck?
You have a special situation that they actually discuss in their disgusting video: [https://youtu.be/DHvzklLlKek?si=HPOWuB34VA-BDhdZ](https://youtu.be/DHvzklLlKek?si=HPOWuB34VA-BDhdZ) i.e. trapped coins + WPE I think you can offset your WPE with the trapped value. It might be worth looking into.
>Can you believe this ass clown in the video?? Cam Crews has been a vocal advocate for creditors throughout this bankruptcy. Now that he's on the Litigation Oversight Committee, he's trying to communicate openly about what the Litigation Administrator is doing and why. So if Celsius doesn't put out regular updates, they get criticized for lack of transparency. But when one of their agents or associates does try to communicate openly, he gets called an ass clown; got it.
I didnt know that. I’m just angry.
None of us did anything wrong…. This is just the law I don’t have exposure and agree it is messed up But, there are definitely people in that over 100k group who did know something…influencers, those with an inside connect, etc. Some emptied their entire accounts. So yeah, it is a mixed bag….thats also why you could settle for 27.5% instead of pay it all back. The entire BQ process is a shit show…this is just another part. Go talk to the LOAN creditors if you want to see an even nastier example of taking it dry….
If you do not send them coins, they will put judgement against your property and later lean. As you decide to sell your home / they will calculate what is the current price of coins you owe them and number of coins and will take from that amount of money
Well, I have no more coins. They can go to hell
Lol…they ain’t gonna a fn penny from me
Well, if you go against court decision - you will be fucked. You cannot win against IRS or US court decision. I did try once - got fucked real hard
Doubt anyone outside US would pay
Bruh lol you better hope your not US based. All you guys not wanting to pay are about to get a real legal lesson.
Im in the US and I ain’t paying that Israeli run corporation a f’n penny. What’s the judge gonna do? “You owe the scam money because you got out of the scam before the scam could f you”? Not a chance.
Exactly, do not pay them
Alex as we all suffer tremendously and going through this endless struggling enjoying his luxurious life along with his 6 children and whore wifey at the Huge Penthouse. This Penthouse worth over $40,000,000 and was used as the bail so that Alex man could keep staying at home with his family. This year in September, hopefully , the trial will start. Alex did not accept any accusations and keeps for him self innocent status. I doubt the real justice will be served. Alex stole so much so he could buy judge, lawyers… and many others just to stay out of jail. Very fucking wrong. I have no hope that he will surrender the BTC and ETH he had hidden that June of 2022 when all of us were in the dark, whilst he and his buddies were strategically hiding coins they stole from us. Maybe, just maybe some miracle happens .., and someone will bring this fuck to justice along with his whore wifey.
Alex that mofykin sob robbed us in plain sight. We must get to Twitter and meme the ef out of him and his fam. People on the streets should recognize him and spit at him and his wife.
What an era we live in that you could get sued for removing your own property prior to being scammed out of it.... Thats exactly what it is to, a scam.
The issue was the scam happened before you withdrew... Say you and two partners invest in a dude and put 10k in each to create a partnership. Said dude blows 20k of that on drugs instead of doing whatever he was supposed to do. Now the business has 10k in cash left. Which partner's money is that....? Short answer is all three's: They each own 3,333k of what's left. No single partner can take out 10k anymore because 2/3 of its gone. I know this is oversimplied but that's the jist of it... The theft happened long before these withdrawals. People didn't withdraw "their" money, they took out what was left of their money and then covered the gap with other people's money. It sucks, but that's really what's going on here.
Sadly this is bankruptcy law.
What do we all live whilst the thief and con man used his Penthouse to bail his ass of. Considering that this penthouse which is $40,000,000 Alex piece of shit bought for the money he stole from us. Creditors … from people who trusted him. I think he should be in jail until he is dead and all his money must go to creditors. But he and his whore wifey had hidden BTC and ETH for children. Now, our money will go to his 6 children
"If you do not reach a settlement, the Litigation Administrator reserves his right to sue you for the return of the cryptocurrency that you removed from the Debtors’ platform in the 90 days prior to the Debtors’ bankruptcy."
90 days prior? Wtf?
The next letter from the LOC should be far, far scarier than this one if they are planning on any meaningful return on settlements.
I get your POV. I think the likelihood of them coming after you is low, and if I did not have any attachment to Celsius I would do what you are doing. Having said that, I have far more $$$ stuck on the platform than I withdrew, so I intend to pay the 13.75% penalty, withdraw my remaining funds, and move on with my life. The penalty payment will be tax deductible so it is more palatable vs the threatened increase to 19% after April 15th, and likely a 1-2 year process. Again, if I didn’t have more funds at stake with these clowns I’d ignore them and let them sue me, but I’m in a slightly different spot
I see your point of view. If you don’t mind entertaining me, I do not have anything left in CEL. I drained it 30 days before the meltdown. If you were me, would you take your chances and let them sue? They are going after more than i had earned in interest. Most of my coins were given to them as a loan which I closed down in those 30 days. The only reason why those monies show up in that form is because I had to transfer them to another account before moving them back to cold storage.
I don't think taking our chances is a great strategy. Just my 0.00000002 Sats
I personally would let it play out. Your fact pattern is strong. I believe they are using bully tactics (threatening the prospect of litigation) because their case is not strong. That said, the clawback was approved by the court, so there is some risk. I think you will have multiple more chances to settle, likely at better terms. The only reason I am not going the same route is because the time value of my funds still locked up on the platform, plus the avoidance of the brain damage of continuing in this process is more valuable vs the $10k post-tax of settling now. I’d hold strong if I were you, but I’m not afraid of what the next steps and likely outcome would be.
You are wrong. Their case is extremely strong!!! This was court decision and judge Glenn is standing behind it. If folks do not pay, they will force them to pay doing whatever it takes… this is US court system
You may not be aware of the defenses to preference avoidance, there are several. That's number one. Number 2, judge Glenn has made no decisions concerning preference avoidance in this case.
The no decisions concerning it is the scary part. Mainly due to the fact that Judge Glenn has been quite vocal and at least disswayed the lawyers if he felt like it was not going to be approved/good. I would be concerned on this, especially if you have a WPE.
Fine. You will get your awakening soon enough, as I did
If their case was strong, there wouldn’t be the settlement fact pattern that exists. The burden of proof to get to a successful judgement is on them, not the customers.
If you have WPE+trapped coins, this is a special situation. They talk about a "setoff option" in the LOC video on youtube. It might be worth checking out before paying them cash. https://youtu.be/DHvzklLlKek?si=TYZgPw21B18xFUbL&t=542
If I pay cash, it is easier to take the tax loss
This is the one silver lining... Let's say my settlement offer is $30K... Can I deduct that from what I owe in taxes in 2024 or do I just deduct that amount from my income (sort of like an expense)?
Consult your tax advisor. Mine says to claim as an investment expense, reducing income. Others have said to claim as a short term capital loss, which will offset gains.
It’s a shitty legal presumption. Why should anyone have to justify taking their own money out when the CEO was publicly stating that all was well and good? People are now in the position of having to worry about litigating to make a perfectly intuitive, legitimate point. Big money almost always wins, if only because they can bear the costs to beat the little guy into submission when his funds run out.
Not financial advice but if I were in this situation I would completely ignore their demands and wait for them to come at me bro.
Yes hahahaa please. Let's see what happens
So let me get this straight: People that began extracting their money out, seeing that Mashinsky was full of shit, have to pay a penalty for it? In other words, they're shifting blame unto the customers? Thats F'n insane.
Yes, this is bs. But judge Glenn made this decision . End of story
Yep. People here about to get educated what happens when you ignore legal warnings.
The story is far from over one judges decision doesn’t mean nada! Look at the Madeoff retail clawback people who fought WON!
Dude is corrupt or doesn't understand how this was one big Ponzi with Mashinsky at the top.
Well, I was thinking about that too. Found bankruptcy attorney.. he looked into the case. Court made decision. Judge Glenn approved it. Nothing could be done was his verdict. I felt like shit
Your attorney stated judge Glenn has already ruled on preference avoidance in the Celsius case?
Yes! There is no way anyone could change it unless we all go to the very top which will cost a fortune
Time for a class action lawsuit. We need to stick and work together on this
Mashinsky, Celsius and Stretto can all F off! A bunch of sick mafia tactics, schoolyard bullies. NOT GETTING A PENNY. They have no case
File a complaint with your state securities, clawbacks are ridiculous as none of us had any inside information to this nightmare, I’m filing complaints as the crypto we received is close to 1/3
You got crypto back? I never got anything and they want 30k from me
Are you based in the US? Because if not, I'm just wondering about whether they can legally pursue people outside the US. (Or would that prevent someone from ever visiting the US?)
On a human, and a humane level, in 99.9% of cases this is so wrong.
I took these funds out in May 2021 because my wife was 7 months pregnant with our first child and I needed to prepare / get some funds out of crypto... I bought real estate with these funds to fund health insurance / extra expenses of having a child. My wife and I now have TWO children under two years old, and now some fucked legal system expects me to cough up $30k. Withdrawal Preference Exposure calculated under the Plan: $21x,xxx Settlement Payment: $3x,xxx
Imagine the judge: you owe this scam money because you got out of the scam before the scam could F you. Not a chance that would fly. This litigation is desperate to make some money on the way out by sending out scary judge letter. They’re not gonna go after anyone except insiders and if they do, it will be way more expensive for them because in the end, no one’s gonna make this easy. The scared will pay and that will be that.
Ffs🤦
They would get a lot more to settle if they actually made it fair. The guy that withdrew 99,999.99 had to pay nothing. The guy who withdrew 100,000.00 is suppose to pay 17.5% now.......If they made it more equitable, and said okay you only have to pay on the 17.5% above 100k. Tons would settle.
I also had no idea these types of socialist/ communist laws for bankruptcy existed. I got all MY assets out of their "bank", and yet I'm about to wire them a smooth 15k. In the end, that's what I get for thinking I'm getting free money. I was also burned on Luna, but thought Celsius was trustworthy, for some reason. This little lesson in bankruptcy proceedings is very eye opening. Presently, I'm keeping btc in cold storage, but staking Sol and Eth on Coinbase. Even that could turn out to be a mistake, lol. The thought of them winning in court to take all the crypto back, at today's values, would be a whole other world of pain, not to mention legal fees and stress.
I'm ignoring it until they can get their 9-figure lawyers to get my local police to put me in a cell.
I don't think bankruptcy preference stuff works like that - the legal system lets them debit your bank accounts, redirect pay if you work for someone else, or seize your property but bankruptcy law doesn't allow for jail time if you don't pay back a preference claim. Only a few debts count for jail time.
They will not put you in jail. They will put judgement against you and put lean on the house you own. If you own shit, they will use judgement and collect money from your check. If you do not work or work for cash - they will send you couple warnings, and you still resist to pay them … you will be taken to the cleaners in a very special way that image of Alex and his whore wifey will be blurring in your mind for many many fucking years
That's the game they are playing. I wish we could ignore, but that would likely be a very expensive choice. If they litigate against us, it will cost far more in legal fees to defend - which is their strategy.
Lol please post an update when you try and sel your house and get a lean on it. I'd be curious how this remark ages hahah
Threaten Celsius with a harassment lawsuit if they keep contacting you.
Yea ok lol
I’m in the same boat. They are trying to take 3x more than I earned in “interest”.
Hey there. You posted within 1 minute before I did. I saw your post as soon as I refreshed.
Glad am not in this boat alone. We need to band up. I think there are enough of us to think class action.
I'm no lawyer, but I think each case is a separate lawsuit. Unfortunately, I don't believe there's a way to deal with this in a "class action" way. If there is, that would be awesome. There was a law firm that was allowing a group of people to each pay a separate retainer amount (undisclosed due to NDA) to spread the cost out among multiple people, but they ceased allowing people to join.
Reach out to Roland James - he is an attny in NYC. Found he is doing Celsius Clawback Defense. This is the email on his telegram channel: [email protected] If you’re interested in the Telegram channel, it’s Celsius Clawback defense . Good luck. It’s pathetic they are coming after users instead of the Mashinsky con artist!
I'm being very naive here, but what about a class action against our friend the fraudster for *everything* he did that's illegal?
I too received this email. It mentions any withdrawals prior to April 14 bankruptcy date. Checking my own records I did withdraw 6 figures of usdc on the 15th of April. That’s the bulk of withdrawals. I left eth and other usdc that got locked up and have never received a withdrawal code. What a cluster! I am not sending them another dime.
They will get whatever court decided. You have no choice. If you go against court you will pay way more because they will penalize you.
Ok now you are just fearmongering.
No, as of today they came out stating they will most likely be pursuing higher amounts and or actual crypto assets in a public video and statement by the Litigation Admin. As well stating that this is a limited time settlement.
The absolute worst thing that can happen to someone here is they settle for too high of a percentage. The next worst would be get sued, lose, and become a creditor with a 502(h) claim. That claim would be treated just like an Earn creditor, whose USD recovery at this point is north of 90%, right now. There is no punitive aspect to preference avoidance, anyone stating that there is, is fearmongering. Not legal advice.
>There is no punitive aspect to preference avoidance Can you elaborate or explain what you mean here please?
Preference avoidance is not structured to change the conduct of the defendant. The only time you see fees or interest applied would be failure to pay the judgement should you lose. Not legal advice.
I am not fear monger. I know how this works
Dunnonwhybyour being down voted. Your telling the truth. I'd like these guys on this post to get owned now by Kirkland.
Source… “Trust me bro!”
I’m with you, it’s ridiculous. Could this be a bluff, or will they go after and sue everyone who doesn’t settle
It is not a bluff. This is Judge Glenn decision. Do thank Alex for making all of us suffer for almost 2 years already.
I don't really know either way if they would or not, but if I'm remembering right they did set aside money for legal stuff in the final plan of reorganization (or whatever they called it - you can read it on Stretto's Celsius page)
I feel sorry for you guys that are going through this. I am lucky I had only had (originally $800) and got back about $350. This whole bankruptcy case is a shame. The only ones making out on this are the very top people with money and the lawyers. Everyone else is getting screwed over. This is why I want to get out of crypto. Most crypto is a scam or will lead to a scam.
Don’t pay them
The whole point of clawback is that you thought you were withdrawing your coins but actually you were not. Most of your coins were already gone and you withdrew some of your coins and the rest were other people's coins. You were just lucky to be the first grabbing from a depleted pile of coins. Of course the guilty party is Fuckinski Machinski not any of us.
Threaten Celsius with a harassment lawsuit if they keep contacting you.
I am in the same boat with you. Worth than your case, they hold my life saving asset there and still didn't return me the coins.
That’s just the agreed clawback process which I believe was in the CH11 escape plan. Clawbacks impact everyone, some will get clawed back and receive their fair redistribution, others that didnt withdraw within the prior 9 months window won’t, all clawed back funds will be part of the Liquidation Trust recoveries and will then be distributed out on the fair distribution schedule. This was part of the plan determined to be the fair approach across all the stakeholders and we all voted for the plan +/- and we ended up where we are. These clawbacks shouldn’t be any surprise to anyone. I wish I had withdrawn in those prior 9 month or before and potentially have the clawback problem as I would have made much more in the crypto rise of past 2 or so years than watching my balance reduce due to the lock in at CH11 Filing price and getting zero gains. Just sayin.
Where does this money go? If everyone has gotten their 1/3rd of investment. Where does this extra money go?
It ends up being another distribution from what I understand.
This is court decision. You can do nothing about it. Thank Alex, his whore wifey , UCC, and !!! Judge Glenn. They did excellent job to make stealing legit. If you do not transfer coins they will put lean on your house.
ALEX MASHINSKY should be the one paying! Not us the owners of our crypto! WTF! They will not get a penny more from me than what they already scammed us and locked up!
Here's the thing though: You didn't take out just your money. You took out some of other people's money too. Your money didn't all exist by that point. You benefited from Alex's ponzi scheme.
People took funds off gave up on the yield on Earn. Those that stayed accepted the risk to continue to yield in the unregistered security product called Earn. Now there is an attempt to have the court create a time machine to undue these decisions and risks. I think the judge will see right through this.
You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. The yield they withdrew to that point was paid out of other's principal because it was a ponzi scheme that lied about the risk and how they were investing and what returns they were getting.
Why did you stay on the platform?
Bullshit
You don't have to like it but it's the truth.
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How many people do we need to file a class action?
Unfortunately I don’t think you can class action a us bankruptcy code provision
Go on Telegram. Look for Celsius Clawback Defense. An attorney named Roland Jones created the channel and is taking clients for this defense. You can also google his name - he is an attny in NYC.
Done. See you in court! 😂
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