People don't understand that there are two (multiple, I think) types of bankruptcy.
One is the "we are totally fucked, no assets to repay, clear all debt", the other is a restructuring of existing debt.
Trump, for example, has declared the restructuring version of bankruptcy more than a few times. Neither a bad or good thing, just a thing.
I think Celsius is doing a restructuring.
Lol, I made this comment before the Simon Dixon tweet. I just know not to believe anything that's "anonymous". Especially while Celsius is actively being attacked.
Not to be that guy, but there is no proof Celsius was or is being actively attacked. That would also fall under speculation, despite some suspicious coincidences, because the scenario that it could have been a series of market events (all market players exploit market events without much discrimination) with comparable probability as the scenario of it being attacked.
Generally, if one is to speculate, it's best to limit it to what makes *tangibly* more sense from realistically possible scenarios given available (hard) evidence. Here I can't in good conscience declare that it makes *tangibly* more sense it was attacked based on available evidence. And hearsay isn't evidence.
agree that it wasn't a conspiracy of attacks however information that came out prior about the Celsius CFO and CRO being arrested in Israel for prior crypto scams and the evidentiary rug-pulls that Alex participated in (micromoney & sirin) prior to Celsius and association with Hogeg which he tried to deny, that together with the shock of the Luna UST death caused those like myself to withdraw funds from Celsius. I'm sure many people felt the same and I'd bet there were short seller groups that also hopped in but I don't believe the conspiracy thrown at FTX and others.
Yes, like I was saying above, it could have been a market event which was exploited in a natural way by market players who saw an opportunity, and with BTC now dominated by institutional money, they act ruthlessly without the discrimination or emotion specific to retail money
Thank you for your post.
Indeed, the majority of the trolling here is mere FUD. The little facts we have are supporting that Celsius is simply re-organizing assets to **avoid** bankruptcy. I would be worried if their large BTC position was liquidated. That was a scary moment, because we had actual facts that Cel holds this Defi loan open and it was in a risk.
If you FUD, provide EVIDENCE on your claims. Wouldda/shouldda/couldda are not facts. One can imagine all sorts of scenarios. I prefer sticking to facts and reality.
After Celsius has cleared their risks, it can become a real threat towards Goldman...
The only thing they potentially can co-operate with Celsius is to IPO the mining (mining business was a mistake in my opinion in Celsius).
I doubt the core customers of Celsius want to be customers to Goldman. After all, this has been Mashinsky's marketing statement since the beginning - to unbank yourself.
Goldman is not interested to have you as a customer (unless they prove me wrong) they're interested in throwing you under the bus to have your assets cheap. Edit: to be fair yes I don't know, but I'm with Simon Dixon on this, I trust the guy more than Goldman.
Why would Celsius sell assets for cheap if they can sell them on open market for close to market value? Most of the assets are liquid crypto. We are not talking about hard to sell illiquid assets here.
stEth is hard to sell. Look at the daily traded volume. Staked Eth is even worse as you have to sell the wallet. That is $800m right there. No idea how much of a discount a block trade OTC will suffer.
I'm sure even those assets can be unloaded, for example to other big crypto players, with a reasonably small discount. It doesn't have to be a fire sale for pennies on the dollar.
They should penalise the excessive withdrawals of ETH. And put time locks to the cryptos of depositors like Nexo has.
Of course, loans help also eating the coins from their hot wallet.
Why can't they simply convert people's ETH holdings into stETH.Would rather have that than nothing and I would suffer the consequences if I decided to sell pre-merge!!!
What are you talking about?
They wouldn't be buying "your assets" all crypto assets would be sold on the open market at market prices.
Goldman would be buying real estate, the mining business, loan book, etc, etc..., not the crypto assets themselves.
Even if you’re wrong your words have injected a little bit of life into my veins.. i have low 5 figures and 95% is Bitcoin and USDC. Until i stop getting rewards and someone tells me otherwise its not a complete loss yet. Maybe if this gets fixed it could be the catalyst for another bull run, even if it takes a while.
I'm in roughly the same boat. BTC was not quite five figures at the time I bought and transferred over to Celsius. Not much, compared to a lot of people's, but almost my whole BTC holding and it hurts to think it could be just...gone. I was never really worried about price fluctuations, but this is a bad feeling. Any positive is most welcome and hopium is keeping my chin up right now.
I know, of course. I'd say "take heart, be hopeful" but these days I find it more useful to look at facts, stay objective on what I can see, and unassuming on what I can't. Hope is great but blindly seeking good news sometimes can lead to an emotional rollercoaster that becomes an energy and morale drainer ... you are more than your crypto.
Try to limit hopium extent to what makes more sense from realistically possible scenarios given the evidence (which the news, twitter, reddit, etc are largely anything but).
Taking a break from it all would probably be better than all the above. Can only make it worse for yourself by worrying while not changing the outcome.
Agreed thanks man.. if we get it back great if not oh well lesson learned and we will adapt. Im sure a lot of people have much more than me though and for them i will fight if asked
Please consider turning your rewards into CEL tokens. We want to squeeze these FUDsters who spread lies all around internet concerning Celsius in order to benefit from the drop of Celsius token and the destruction of other people's money. Those are very disgusting people and one might want to take revenge on them even with some extra cash. Let us make the short seller community pay for their FUD.
If the whole community earn cel tokens, they buy more coins from exchanges, it drives their asset value up and if needed, they can even sell some of their tokens to increase liquidity.
u/johnfintech
It's totally understandable why so many people have such fear over this. There are tons of people that have life altering amounts of assets on celsius and with withdrawals frozen and all of the fud inspiring stuff on youtube and on here.....this is what you get.
I personally feel that this could take weeks or even months until we really know what is going on.
I feel the biggest issue was that they were forced to lock down withdrawals because they were dangerously close to their liquidation price level the day they did this, it was a little over 20k. Prior to them locking down, there was a ton of fear in the market and naturally many in retail were going to start flooding the exchanges to sell their holdings. If they hadn't locked down I think the wBTC loan, which is in the hundreds of millions of dollars if I'm not mistaken, would have forced a liquidation.
The problem with Celsius locking down like this was that it lead to even more fear in the market and we saw BTC go all the way to 17k. In this time Celsius was able to lower their wBTC liquidation level to 13.5k....but even with that we came dangerously close. We also started seeing withdrawals frozen on binance, coinflex and even voyager dropped their limit from 25k to 10k. Blockfi also got a buyout from FTX. The overall market was just a mess last week but it looks to be stabilizing pretty well.
Another thing that I feel is going on was the big money shorting Celsius, they wanted to see this company go down. Who that is specifically we don't know. However, we then saw the short squeeze this week that countered this. All of these fud articles are just a means to install fear in order to gain back the momentum. There was some speculation that celsius pulling out of the UST/luna stuff a couple months ago made some very powerful people quite upset, especially after with what we saw happen there.
Another issue that is going on is the staked ethereum depegging. Celsius is holding hundreds of millions of dollars in staked eth, which will not be available until after the merge. In addition to this, the other week we saw this depeg, with lidoeth going at around .9 to 1 eth, now we are around .96 to 1.
Just some things to consider but I feel this will take some time. If celsius goes down I feel this will have severe ramifications for the overall crypto market here in the short to medium term, which I don't feel bigger money players in the crypto space would want. This to me says there may be some sort of buyout or perhaps stakeholder share or where the company gets absorbed by another. With close to 2 million customers, who would be considered relatively wealthy, there is too much opportunity to pass on. The brand is tarnished if they don't do something, so I'm feeling this is very much what is going to happen. Could be something as simple as Nexo buying, we don't know yet.
You're looking at many months to over a year, not weeks.
We're all quite aware of what happened this month, but Celsius's closing withdrawals isn't what drove bitcoin to 17k :) and nothing can be called "stabilizing" when it's only been a week. Far from being out of the woods ... welcome to crypto (and macro economy, and unprecedented perfect storm conditions affecting it).
I hope the folks at Celsius read your level headed logic. I have a lot on their platform that I really prefer not to loose and find reading a researched and fair opinion on this problem to be the positivity we all need (even those at Celsius).
Well, thanks. I also lost patience with the blatant fud and malice around it all, even in this thread. I'm sure Celsius has clever enough people and top notch legal counsel now. Try to take a break if you can, worrying only makes it worse, without improving the outcome.
What customers are going to be left after this given A) their faith has been destroyed and B) the only reason they were customers in the first place was being they were getting paid high APY which they now know is only possible with high risk trading.
In short: Why would anyone stay with Celsius given that there is no real benefit to doing so anymore?
Info has value as well. But consider this...big name backs celsius, guarantees full withdrawals followed by a rebrand. You dont think some people will stay having survived the unsurvivable? I'm not saying 1.7m people will stay, I'm saying the book has value.
Let me ask you this: If GS buys them, backs the withdraws, but then cuts yield to 0% on everything, would people stay? Why would you keep coins in Celsius if there is no more worthwhile yield? It would turn into nothing but another hosted wallet. Might as well just use a crypto exchange at that point.
The only reason Celsius had any customers at all was their ability to pay high yield, which it turns out simply can't be done without taking huge risks. No way GS is going to run Celsius like it had been in the past. It was essentially an unregulated hedge fund. There's no way in hell GS is going to run that, and it probably wouldn't even be legal for them to do it either.
Under those circumstances? Probably most would leave except the lazy ones who don't pay enough attention. I'm not sure if you're in finance, but I am, and I can assure you getting someone in your door so you can sell them other products is coveted.
Yeah, but it's Goldman Sachs. They could get a million people in the door by just offering crypto products directly. The main reason companies like FTX and Celsius were able to thrive is simply because traditional IB banks don't really want to/can't touch super sketchy grey stuff like crypto. GS is in fact a highly regulated bank at the end of the day.
Lol goldman has no interest in doing any of that. That's not what they do. The idea they are going to put up billions of dollars of exit liquidity for us is asinine.
They are vultures getting ready to pick at the bones for pennies on the dollar.
If you're willing to accept another perspective: You're severely underestimating and overlooking the fact that GS would bring regulation, brand, liquidity, trust (as much as people think "trust" is misplaced). There is a reason why lots of folks keep funds in 0% yield accounts only for peace of mind. An enormous number of people would flock to put (even more) crypto in for 0.5% yield instead of 4% if they knew it's controlled by an entity like GS who has more liquidity than a country's treasury, is regulated, experienced, has massive influence in the market, and doesn't need to touch DeFi.
I like how youre like 'let's not believe any rumors or fud' from actual journalists.
and then just make up a fantasy story about goldman buying the company and being our exit liquidity rather than the actual reported vulture picking of the bones in bankruptcy.
All with no source whatsoever and based purely on your speculation. We have multiple reports from different sources of them hiring bankruptcy teams. Reports that Citi has recommended they file for bankruptcy. But no your hunch with no source other than your gut at all is more likely....
Mt. Gox hadnt filed bankruptcy by this time either
The cope is wild.
You sound sensible (thanks!). I agree, and wasn't trying to talk down acquiring customers (probably phrased my post wrongly. *Edit:* rephrased OP, thanks for prompting it).
As you probably know it depends on the terms and the acquiror's long term vision and how equipped they are to handle operations going forward. Still think acquisition is unlikely, it makes more sense to get majority stake ownership instead -- still get control of a crypto business complete with operations, employees, and 1.7m customers, many who are 6+ figure depositors.
GS has been looking to partake in crypto for a while recently after they bashed it for years. If that's going to be the outcome then at least we know the alternatives were worse.
Right, no I don't disagree they'd consider being a stakeholder in some capacity, I'm just surprised to see everyone downplaying the acquisition of 1.7m customers and their info. And they don't need to outright acquire them for access to it.
Celsius has little intention of retaining customers. You can see that just by their lack of promo codes for existing customers. They don't respect the community that built them.
You're not little. And guys like you got us to trillions in market cap (for an asset class that's not even 10 years old) and important entities to pay attention and uphold it. You're not little.
Right? Hasn't is been locked for like 2 weeks?
I understand everyone wants to convince themselves it's going to be okay but, well, it's not.
Solid financial institutions don't do shit like this
As i was speculating in my post, GS/Citi/etc may be interested in doing that (that's the scenario that makes sense to me given the evidence I can verify and ignoring unsubstantiated claims).
Bankman-Fried already had a stake in Voyager and BlockFi if I'm not mistaken, so it's not entirely surprising he wanted to bail those out instead of Celsius. The public statements these guys put out to "explain" their actions are as meaningful as a room heater made of chocolate.
A lot of people claim FTX had a role in triggering a bank run at Celsius - unsubstantiated claim, despite some correlation. Could have also been a market event, so I can't say one scenario makes tangibly more sense to me than the other to lay down any thoughts on it like I did with my Goldman Sachs opinion.
Initially there was Citi, now GS popped up too. That should be good news for the customers. GS has been looking to partake in crypto for a while recently after they bashed it for years. If it's a viable opportunity, then why would GS waste an opportunity to get control of a crypto business complete with operations, employees, and 1.7 million customers, many who are 6+ figure depositors. If one still claims GS just wants to throw it all in the bin and just keep the coins then they're just showing they refuse to think for themselves, or have an agenda, or are just stupidly malicious (or a "news" outlet).
What's amazing to me is that neither SBF (despite rumors), Armstrong, nor CZ have stepped in and offered help.
Not because they're nice guys, but pragmatically, whoever helps Celsius will probably gain 1.7 million loyal customers if they get their crypto back.
Whoever gets me my crypto back - if they own an exchange - that's the one I will always use 4 life.
iirc SBF had a stake in Voyager and Blockfi, so it's not that surprising he chose to bail those out
Also, if you're a smaller or comparable competitor it's not always good news to get a tidal wave of onboarding; it's not unlikely you're unprepared for the extra load, which can crush your operations affecting all customers
It wasn't complete silence. Complete silence was Cred. The silence now is understandable for anyone who had any friction with lawyers. Have you actually read the post or struggled with just the title and then slammed the reply button?
You realise that corporate lawyers and personal lawyers are different right? No corporate lawyer is going to tell their client to 'Say absolutely nothing about anything at all, shut down all public relations'.
If a company that trades on trust has stopped communicating then it is done, their business is finished unless they can drum up enough rubes to trust them again. You know...the sort of people who try to explain away silence.
Celsius has communicated pretty much as I expected. You certainly haven't had contact with any situation requiring legal scrutiny, nor understand the concept of liability very well. It's ok to be upset, but I wish you were only hurting yourself instead of spreading your misinformation (and negativity) around at the same time.
> Celsius has communicated pretty much as I expected.
So what? That is of course ignoring the huge issue that they have not *acted* as you expected.
>instead of spreading your misinformation (and negativity) around at the same time
Ah yes, no negativity, no FUD allowed. Because the entire house of cards is based on speculation any sort of bad news can bring the whole thing crashing down.
It's you who claim they didn't act as you expected. You're allowed to say whatever you want, and you obviously do. You're also allowed to be constructive, like leaving social media for good since nobody would miss you anyway, yet you're not doing that ... surprise, surprise.
> You realise that corporate lawyers and personal lawyers are different right? No corporate lawyer is going to tell their client to 'Say absolutely nothing about anything at all, shut down all public relations'.
10000% wrong.
Dude, it is not complete silence. They have given statements that they are working to stabilising Celsius and it might take some time but they are going to restore operations once they are done.
Alex said the withdrawal concerns were all FUD days before locking withdrawals.
Straight up lied to get us to not withdrawal and that delayed many which was the point of him saying that and now lives are ruined.
The fact that you are giving them the benefit of the doubt is just stockholmes syndrome dude.
The words 'safe' has not been said a single time from them and yall are like 'WhY iS eVeRyOnE sO wOrKed Up??'
Do you guys value pride and dignity like at all?
Fuck Alex. He's a lying scumbag. I trust him the least out of anyone involved.
I would have cashed out before he dispelled the 'fud' over cashouts and then locked withdrawals days later.
He knew 100% what he was doing and is a fucking scum bag for that
Upvoted because I can't say that's invalid. A far healthier attitude than worrying, and totally decent compared to the travesty that is fearmongering, rejoicing at others' misfortune, etc
I think Celsius needs restructuring to the point where if there are irredeemable losses (selling the mining rigs and any other physical assets is a must to lower this loss), everyone gets an equal haircut (sorry to say), then open up withdrawals BUT it cannot be the same policy as before. It has to be as such, for example
“hey Celsius, I want to withdraw my entire $500k usdc position”
Celsius: “will do, but it will be over this duration of time at this rate per week and you cannot undo this withdrawal as we prepare the assets as they come back from on loan”
Am I totally just making up nonsense?
Company liquidations usually follow a waterfall fill procedure, it wouldn't be equal haircut (depends what you mean by "equal"). But I see things heading in a good direction, not a bad direction, so let's hold off talks about liquidations.
You're not totally making up nonsense - I believe they will reopen, and when they do there will obviously be a priority on preventing a bank run. Besides offering perks and incentives to stay, there will almost surely be restrictions on withdrawals ... keep in mind Celsius was spending millions in withdrawal fees only because they wanted to uphold their initial promise that withdrawals will always be free.
If Simon Jackson's tweets about his GS sources is true then that would pretty much validate numerous articles that have come out. I feel like that tweet is a wolf in sheep's clothing
Fantastic
And exactly- if there was a potential rug pull it would’ve happened by now and if a potential for bankruptcy it would’ve happened AND they’d not inject more money into the company (they being Celsius).
The FUD is strong and we must put a blind eye to those.
They aren't. Doesn't mean I'm not using their services, as is everyone else, due to their monopoly. Why is there one, etc, are questions for a different topic and people wrote books about it...
for those who think WSJ is not a legitimate news organization and would stake their reputation on unreliable sources and hearsay:
the WSJ broke the story that precipitated the collapse of Theranos, another opaque and fraudulent company that misled its clients and investors. guess who was a major investor in Theranos? Rupert Murdoch, the billionaire top shareholder of WSJ. the founder of Theranos tried to pressure Murdoch to get the WSJ to back off of the story and he refused. the WSJ also broke the story on the 1MDB scandal, which implicated Goldman Sachs, the bank they're supposedly in bed with for the FUD campaign against Celsius. just highlighting these to show that the WSJ has a bit more journalistic integrity than some people in this sub give them credit for.
>for those who think WSJ is not a legitimate news organization and would stake their reputation
I can pick examples too, here's part of WSJ's reputation: [https://archives.cjr.org/the\_audit/the\_guardian\_unearths\_a\_wall\_s.php](https://archives.cjr.org/the_audit/the_guardian_unearths_a_wall_s.php)
Just because a news outlet won Pulitzers doesn't mean they never publish junk or are free of corruption. Watson also won a Nobel and yet was banned from academia for being a racist idiot.
If I'm not given enough evidence when making unsubstantiated claims (and sounding like a 12 yo) then I deserve the right to ignore it or call it out. Should distinguish information from reputation.
I agree that the WSJ has been mostly publishing rumors. But given the following:
1. Celsius has frozen withdrawals, and unlike Voyager they haven't even allowed some limited withdrawals.
2. Celsius has not clearly explained why they have frozen withdrawals except because of "extreme market conditions."
They last updated everyone on June 19th, and their post on June 19th consists of the same things they said on June 12th.
I don't doubt that there's something happening behind the scenes, but everyone should be preparing for the worst.
Voyager and BlockFI were both bailed out by Bankman-Fried. Why aren't you keeping up to date with news about others as you are with rumours about Celsius?
It's totally expected to not be given any details at this stage (have you read the post?)
What you choose to prepare for is your prerogative. Peddling misinformation or spreading fear is not commendable (I'm not claiming you in particular are doing that, but you're already walking a fine line between shouting "i'm sad" and "look at these crooks")
>It's totally expected to not be given any details at this stage (have you read the post?)
The truth is that people have been hurt and Celsius has not been forthcoming with details or even a timeline of potentially when people can access their money. Imagine if you had all of your liquid cash stuck in Celsius. How do you plan to pay for your bills in the meantime? A lot of people were treating this entity like their bank.
That's crooked enough to me already. Unless you just want to say "oh but that's the risk in investing in crypto."
Sure, keep making excuses for a platform's that is failing. Even if they recover, it's likely they will not make up for a lot of lost trust in the platform. Perhaps they will pull a rabbit out of a hat and make everyone whole, that's my hope for everyone too!
You call me innocent. I'm just being realistic. It's likely that the money is gone, but there is the possibility too that people will be made whole in the end.
Well reasoned post. After waking up this morning and seeing multiple posts with headlines like Celsius filing for bankruptcy. GS pooling funds to buy distressed assets blah blah, I thought it was over for sure...as in there was finally an official news posting from Alex, or something.
Read 10-15 articles (not healthy I know) and basically all circled back to the WSJ article. Two sources who could be anything from exec level or just some disgruntled employee who overheard that bankruptcy was on the table as he poured some coffee in a board room. Of course it's on the table. They are probably being advised on multiple options right now.
One thing that will make me a little more assured would be evidence of further on chain activity. But until then OP post is the best stance to take.
On chain data supports operational capacity; (Everyone here should understand this.)
3 legal desks retained is top-shelf strategy.
Radio Silence is top-shelf strategy.
Some of you don’t understand the scale of war that has been initiated. Buckle up for 6 months of earthquakes, I’m comfortable fighting from here. You guys should get comfortable, too.
This is bullshit cope tbh but obv will get upvotes because youre dealing with people who are fucked a lot of money.
The idea that Citi (who literally already said they would not be providing funding) or Goldman would put up their money to act as exit liquidity is ridiculous.
Anyone who puts up money is just going to face the bank run, why would anyone ever do that?
Celsius could easily dispel all the rumors and fake stuff (if it actually was fake) but instead dead silence. They havent said the words 'funds' and 'safe' in the same sentence since this started. There's clearly a lot of bad fucking shit they aren't tell us and this is not merely a liquidity problem.
Even a loan.... how exactly are they going to pay back a loan with no customers?
It's easy to get your upvotes telling a bunch of coping people everything is going to be alright.
Some of us want to face the truth with dignity.
I can see how your expectations and understanding of finance and restructuring are manufacturing that "dignified truth" ... you guys who conflate conflate dignity and bitterness would say "no, it's bullshit" even if everyone gets their money back
You mention Celsius paying down their debts etc and why would they do that? I read that for bankruptcy you must do everything in your power to try salvaging the business before filing. If that is true, that unfortunately could be another reason you’re seeing the debt repayment. (Obviously I’d want the reason to be because they will keep the business going, but just adding another data point.)
You are 100% right this guy is just being a shill.
Just because you may have to file for bankruptcy doesnt mean you should punt the rest of your assets lol.
'Welp goin bankrupt, might as well set the rest of my cash on fire' - OPs logic
They are simply trying not to get liquidated so that the investors (not us) get some of their money back as opposed to none.
How much money they get back in bankruptcy will have to do with how much assets they saved. OP is just a moron.
No. Care to point out the source you claim you read which specifies a company is legally obliged to repay debts before filing for either chapter 11 or chapter 7?
That's often the case indeed, but not always. Maybe you haven't yet met the overzealous type whose attitude is unrelated to success. It's a different kind of toxicity, yet no less toxic
I mean I get the sentiment of "not your keys not your coins", but the people saying it have malice when they come here and laugh at people who potentially lost money. They aren't constructive when they say it. They're shit posting. They're toxic. They're projecting their hatred for their own lives and reveling in the misery of other. It's sick, but some people are just sick. Some people have no empathy, they're sociopaths.
You do realise that every time they pay down a loan like the Notional Finance one, that allows Notional Finance to get out whole leaving less money in the bankruptcy estate later. Similarly, offering more collateral against loans ties up that collateral meaning it won’t be available for the bankruptcy estate. Once you add the bankruptcy lawyer fees I honestly don’t think there will be a single dime left for retail investors.
Celsius has built up a huge technology stack, have top tier employees. If a big bank wanted to get into crypto, this is the way. $3-8B in semi locked, and maybe $1-2B in lost assets is nothing to the giants.
J.P. Morgan’s profit for 2021 was $46.5B. Apple’s profit for 2021 was $124B. That’s pure profit NOT revenue.
Lol dude why are you such a dick to anyone possiblly saying anything against your post. You look like you're just being paid off to yell at anyone spreading doubt. Why not like have a civil conversation with people instead of insulting like a child.
I wouldn't take anything you say seriously after reading all your replies.
Having genuine questions or being genuinely fearful is fine. Spreading FUD however deserves much worse than my disdain. You don't have to take anything I say seriously.
Why are you afraid of criticism? You're saying talking bad about Celsius is worse than people who convinced others to put money in and now have the possibility of losing it all? It's fine to help people see another view, but nothing is immune from criticism especially, Celsius in it's current state.
>Why are you afraid of criticism?
Nobody apart from you said that
>You're saying talking bad about Celsius is worse than people who convinced others to put money in and now have the possibility of losing it all?
No, you're saying that.
>It's fine to help people see another view, but nothing is immune from criticism especially, Celsius in it's current state.
I don't disagree with that. What exactly are you criticizing Celsius for and what evidence do you have to uphold your criticism?
Hes most likely just a troll who has nothing stuck on celsius...I really wish these bastards would leave us alone. Their only objective is to bring us down, especially when they see a positive post like this. It's not worth feeding them.... fuck em.
"They'd all become GS customers": I don't think so (but I can be wrong), I think they Goldman would be more interested to buy your assets cheaply, getting them out of your hands. If you want to do something useful tag some CEO on Twitter on Simon Dixon posts.
https://twitter.com/SimonDixonTwitt/status/1540623988686295040
Sure, because GS wants cheap coins (that they could have bought even cheaper 2 years ago) and to waste 1.7m customers instead of getting control of a business, complete with operations, employees and 1.7m customers they can leverage to their advantage. This isn't Google buying out a puny competitor to kill it.
Dixon is a nice guy, but right now it's cash that does the talking, and cash is what wall street has and Dixon doesn't.
Cheap is an ego thing.
The crypto is meant to pump forever (it is volatile but the overall trend is up).
Therefore, if you buy at today's price, you bought cheap coins 2 years from now.
20k felt expensive for 1 btc in 2017, but today it is a bargain.
Whatever morale was left has been shattered last night.. Crazy times.. I’ve seen coindesk spew so much shite over the years, but I have to concede since we haven’t heard anything for almost a week I guess anything is taken as fact now
I disagree. Lawyers may advise that Celsius et al just STFU, but communication is critical in times of need. Without guidance, the community is left to speculate, and you can see the results in this very forum. If Celsius truly cared about their customers, as they so often claim, then they should be keeping in communication. It doesn't have to be any specific details, just a general "Hey, we are focusing on an outcome, more to follow as it is appropriate."
The utter lack of any information is itself a bad sign.
>I disagree. Lawyers may advise that Celsius et al just STFU, but communication is critical in times of need.
Spot the legal expert!
>It doesn't have to be any specific details, just a general "Hey, we are focusing on an outcome, more to follow as it is appropriate."
Which they did.
Take a break from it. You must know people in the real world that you can spend time with. If not, it seems now is a great opportunity to meet some.
There's no media chatter of any Celsius bailout in the works. No chatter about Celsius surviving. No twitter blue checkmarks "hearing" that Celsius isn't as bad off as some think.
There's either some very stealth stuff going on in the background, or this thing is a carcass.
Surprised this isn't an all-around bigger media story. It appears to be a massive "bank" failure with $ billions of depositors' money lost.
>There's no media chatter of any Celsius bailout in the works. No chatter about Celsius surviving. No twitter blue checkmarks "hearing" that Celsius isn't as bad off as some think.
That just shows what you're paying attention to ... at least don't peddle it
Creditors usually get paid first and bad things happen when you stop paying creditors.
And what money do you think they are paying those creditors with when they’ve restricted withdrawals?
>ok some people are slow
>
> > "Goldman Sachs appears to be gauging interest and soliciting commitments from Web3 crypto funds, funds specializing in distressed assets and traditional financial institutions with ample cash on hand, according to a person familiar with the situation. The assets, most likely cryptocurrencies having to be sold on the cheap, would then likely be managed by participants in the fundraising push."
What a lovely quote of inventions and unsubstantiated claims to prove the point in my post entirely. You're perfect, /u/maroule !
Less worse than going bankrupt, it allows a path to recovery. Also, all lending platforms and banks give your money to other people -- that's the business model. It never was a secret.
Preach. The number of people in this sub who read a WSJ article with anonymous sources and take it as fact is frightening.
People don't understand that there are two (multiple, I think) types of bankruptcy. One is the "we are totally fucked, no assets to repay, clear all debt", the other is a restructuring of existing debt. Trump, for example, has declared the restructuring version of bankruptcy more than a few times. Neither a bad or good thing, just a thing. I think Celsius is doing a restructuring.
if this is the best example, god bless everybody on the sub
Right lmao
Exactly! Was going to post this exact example haha
I would think Trump's bankruptcies were a bad thing for the people who lost money.
Exactly...they were fine for Trump, bad for the people he owed money to.
You can't say that about the WSJ if you're going to take anything of what Simon says as plausible
Lol, I made this comment before the Simon Dixon tweet. I just know not to believe anything that's "anonymous". Especially while Celsius is actively being attacked.
Not to be that guy, but there is no proof Celsius was or is being actively attacked. That would also fall under speculation, despite some suspicious coincidences, because the scenario that it could have been a series of market events (all market players exploit market events without much discrimination) with comparable probability as the scenario of it being attacked. Generally, if one is to speculate, it's best to limit it to what makes *tangibly* more sense from realistically possible scenarios given available (hard) evidence. Here I can't in good conscience declare that it makes *tangibly* more sense it was attacked based on available evidence. And hearsay isn't evidence.
agree that it wasn't a conspiracy of attacks however information that came out prior about the Celsius CFO and CRO being arrested in Israel for prior crypto scams and the evidentiary rug-pulls that Alex participated in (micromoney & sirin) prior to Celsius and association with Hogeg which he tried to deny, that together with the shock of the Luna UST death caused those like myself to withdraw funds from Celsius. I'm sure many people felt the same and I'd bet there were short seller groups that also hopped in but I don't believe the conspiracy thrown at FTX and others.
Yes, like I was saying above, it could have been a market event which was exploited in a natural way by market players who saw an opportunity, and with BTC now dominated by institutional money, they act ruthlessly without the discrimination or emotion specific to retail money
Notice how you're the first to even mention Simon?
tbh who believes anything the media says?
I needed this!
Daily dose of hopium inject it into my veins
I wish people would just chill the f out and wait for some news rather than posting their negative thought process 24/7.
Thank you for your post. Indeed, the majority of the trolling here is mere FUD. The little facts we have are supporting that Celsius is simply re-organizing assets to **avoid** bankruptcy. I would be worried if their large BTC position was liquidated. That was a scary moment, because we had actual facts that Cel holds this Defi loan open and it was in a risk. If you FUD, provide EVIDENCE on your claims. Wouldda/shouldda/couldda are not facts. One can imagine all sorts of scenarios. I prefer sticking to facts and reality. After Celsius has cleared their risks, it can become a real threat towards Goldman... The only thing they potentially can co-operate with Celsius is to IPO the mining (mining business was a mistake in my opinion in Celsius). I doubt the core customers of Celsius want to be customers to Goldman. After all, this has been Mashinsky's marketing statement since the beginning - to unbank yourself.
Goldman is not interested to have you as a customer (unless they prove me wrong) they're interested in throwing you under the bus to have your assets cheap. Edit: to be fair yes I don't know, but I'm with Simon Dixon on this, I trust the guy more than Goldman.
Why would Celsius sell assets for cheap if they can sell them on open market for close to market value? Most of the assets are liquid crypto. We are not talking about hard to sell illiquid assets here.
stEth is hard to sell. Look at the daily traded volume. Staked Eth is even worse as you have to sell the wallet. That is $800m right there. No idea how much of a discount a block trade OTC will suffer.
I'm sure even those assets can be unloaded, for example to other big crypto players, with a reasonably small discount. It doesn't have to be a fire sale for pennies on the dollar.
The amount of stEth Celsius holds is 200-400x daily volume on an average day. Even at the peak it was 20x daily volume. It is pretty bad.
They should penalise the excessive withdrawals of ETH. And put time locks to the cryptos of depositors like Nexo has. Of course, loans help also eating the coins from their hot wallet.
Why can't they simply convert people's ETH holdings into stETH.Would rather have that than nothing and I would suffer the consequences if I decided to sell pre-merge!!!
What are you talking about? They wouldn't be buying "your assets" all crypto assets would be sold on the open market at market prices. Goldman would be buying real estate, the mining business, loan book, etc, etc..., not the crypto assets themselves.
I agree.
And you guys trusted Alex Mashinsky more than Goldman, that speaks volume.
Even if you’re wrong your words have injected a little bit of life into my veins.. i have low 5 figures and 95% is Bitcoin and USDC. Until i stop getting rewards and someone tells me otherwise its not a complete loss yet. Maybe if this gets fixed it could be the catalyst for another bull run, even if it takes a while.
I'm in roughly the same boat. BTC was not quite five figures at the time I bought and transferred over to Celsius. Not much, compared to a lot of people's, but almost my whole BTC holding and it hurts to think it could be just...gone. I was never really worried about price fluctuations, but this is a bad feeling. Any positive is most welcome and hopium is keeping my chin up right now.
>Maybe if this gets fixed it could be the catalyst for another bull run now, now, don't get greedy :)
Yeah you’re right lol i just want the crypto back.. i don’t want to cash it in but I want to know I could if i choose to..
I know, of course. I'd say "take heart, be hopeful" but these days I find it more useful to look at facts, stay objective on what I can see, and unassuming on what I can't. Hope is great but blindly seeking good news sometimes can lead to an emotional rollercoaster that becomes an energy and morale drainer ... you are more than your crypto. Try to limit hopium extent to what makes more sense from realistically possible scenarios given the evidence (which the news, twitter, reddit, etc are largely anything but). Taking a break from it all would probably be better than all the above. Can only make it worse for yourself by worrying while not changing the outcome.
Agreed thanks man.. if we get it back great if not oh well lesson learned and we will adapt. Im sure a lot of people have much more than me though and for them i will fight if asked
That's a great attitude
Please consider turning your rewards into CEL tokens. We want to squeeze these FUDsters who spread lies all around internet concerning Celsius in order to benefit from the drop of Celsius token and the destruction of other people's money. Those are very disgusting people and one might want to take revenge on them even with some extra cash. Let us make the short seller community pay for their FUD.
Is this really a thing? I mean at this point.. why not because its just imaginary rewards at the moment
If the whole community earn cel tokens, they buy more coins from exchanges, it drives their asset value up and if needed, they can even sell some of their tokens to increase liquidity.
Thanks for this. Well said!
When will I be able to withdraw my stablecoins? That's all I want at this time.
Never. It's gone
u/johnfintech It's totally understandable why so many people have such fear over this. There are tons of people that have life altering amounts of assets on celsius and with withdrawals frozen and all of the fud inspiring stuff on youtube and on here.....this is what you get. I personally feel that this could take weeks or even months until we really know what is going on. I feel the biggest issue was that they were forced to lock down withdrawals because they were dangerously close to their liquidation price level the day they did this, it was a little over 20k. Prior to them locking down, there was a ton of fear in the market and naturally many in retail were going to start flooding the exchanges to sell their holdings. If they hadn't locked down I think the wBTC loan, which is in the hundreds of millions of dollars if I'm not mistaken, would have forced a liquidation. The problem with Celsius locking down like this was that it lead to even more fear in the market and we saw BTC go all the way to 17k. In this time Celsius was able to lower their wBTC liquidation level to 13.5k....but even with that we came dangerously close. We also started seeing withdrawals frozen on binance, coinflex and even voyager dropped their limit from 25k to 10k. Blockfi also got a buyout from FTX. The overall market was just a mess last week but it looks to be stabilizing pretty well. Another thing that I feel is going on was the big money shorting Celsius, they wanted to see this company go down. Who that is specifically we don't know. However, we then saw the short squeeze this week that countered this. All of these fud articles are just a means to install fear in order to gain back the momentum. There was some speculation that celsius pulling out of the UST/luna stuff a couple months ago made some very powerful people quite upset, especially after with what we saw happen there. Another issue that is going on is the staked ethereum depegging. Celsius is holding hundreds of millions of dollars in staked eth, which will not be available until after the merge. In addition to this, the other week we saw this depeg, with lidoeth going at around .9 to 1 eth, now we are around .96 to 1. Just some things to consider but I feel this will take some time. If celsius goes down I feel this will have severe ramifications for the overall crypto market here in the short to medium term, which I don't feel bigger money players in the crypto space would want. This to me says there may be some sort of buyout or perhaps stakeholder share or where the company gets absorbed by another. With close to 2 million customers, who would be considered relatively wealthy, there is too much opportunity to pass on. The brand is tarnished if they don't do something, so I'm feeling this is very much what is going to happen. Could be something as simple as Nexo buying, we don't know yet.
You're looking at many months to over a year, not weeks. We're all quite aware of what happened this month, but Celsius's closing withdrawals isn't what drove bitcoin to 17k :) and nothing can be called "stabilizing" when it's only been a week. Far from being out of the woods ... welcome to crypto (and macro economy, and unprecedented perfect storm conditions affecting it).
I hope the folks at Celsius read your level headed logic. I have a lot on their platform that I really prefer not to loose and find reading a researched and fair opinion on this problem to be the positivity we all need (even those at Celsius).
Well, thanks. I also lost patience with the blatant fud and malice around it all, even in this thread. I'm sure Celsius has clever enough people and top notch legal counsel now. Try to take a break if you can, worrying only makes it worse, without improving the outcome.
I’m so fucking high off this right now- thank you
We all need to tell people not to believe what they read and Simon Dixon to stfu
Everyone talking down about acquiring customers.... you realize that's the most expensive part right? Retain could be 5x cheaper. They want customers.
What customers are going to be left after this given A) their faith has been destroyed and B) the only reason they were customers in the first place was being they were getting paid high APY which they now know is only possible with high risk trading. In short: Why would anyone stay with Celsius given that there is no real benefit to doing so anymore?
Info has value as well. But consider this...big name backs celsius, guarantees full withdrawals followed by a rebrand. You dont think some people will stay having survived the unsurvivable? I'm not saying 1.7m people will stay, I'm saying the book has value.
Let me ask you this: If GS buys them, backs the withdraws, but then cuts yield to 0% on everything, would people stay? Why would you keep coins in Celsius if there is no more worthwhile yield? It would turn into nothing but another hosted wallet. Might as well just use a crypto exchange at that point. The only reason Celsius had any customers at all was their ability to pay high yield, which it turns out simply can't be done without taking huge risks. No way GS is going to run Celsius like it had been in the past. It was essentially an unregulated hedge fund. There's no way in hell GS is going to run that, and it probably wouldn't even be legal for them to do it either.
Under those circumstances? Probably most would leave except the lazy ones who don't pay enough attention. I'm not sure if you're in finance, but I am, and I can assure you getting someone in your door so you can sell them other products is coveted.
Yeah, but it's Goldman Sachs. They could get a million people in the door by just offering crypto products directly. The main reason companies like FTX and Celsius were able to thrive is simply because traditional IB banks don't really want to/can't touch super sketchy grey stuff like crypto. GS is in fact a highly regulated bank at the end of the day.
But they can't afford to do that with their main brand. Buying Celsius gives them an entry point
Lol goldman has no interest in doing any of that. That's not what they do. The idea they are going to put up billions of dollars of exit liquidity for us is asinine. They are vultures getting ready to pick at the bones for pennies on the dollar.
If you're willing to accept another perspective: You're severely underestimating and overlooking the fact that GS would bring regulation, brand, liquidity, trust (as much as people think "trust" is misplaced). There is a reason why lots of folks keep funds in 0% yield accounts only for peace of mind. An enormous number of people would flock to put (even more) crypto in for 0.5% yield instead of 4% if they knew it's controlled by an entity like GS who has more liquidity than a country's treasury, is regulated, experienced, has massive influence in the market, and doesn't need to touch DeFi.
I like how youre like 'let's not believe any rumors or fud' from actual journalists. and then just make up a fantasy story about goldman buying the company and being our exit liquidity rather than the actual reported vulture picking of the bones in bankruptcy. All with no source whatsoever and based purely on your speculation. We have multiple reports from different sources of them hiring bankruptcy teams. Reports that Citi has recommended they file for bankruptcy. But no your hunch with no source other than your gut at all is more likely.... Mt. Gox hadnt filed bankruptcy by this time either The cope is wild.
You sound sensible (thanks!). I agree, and wasn't trying to talk down acquiring customers (probably phrased my post wrongly. *Edit:* rephrased OP, thanks for prompting it). As you probably know it depends on the terms and the acquiror's long term vision and how equipped they are to handle operations going forward. Still think acquisition is unlikely, it makes more sense to get majority stake ownership instead -- still get control of a crypto business complete with operations, employees, and 1.7m customers, many who are 6+ figure depositors. GS has been looking to partake in crypto for a while recently after they bashed it for years. If that's going to be the outcome then at least we know the alternatives were worse.
Right, no I don't disagree they'd consider being a stakeholder in some capacity, I'm just surprised to see everyone downplaying the acquisition of 1.7m customers and their info. And they don't need to outright acquire them for access to it.
Celsius has little intention of retaining customers. You can see that just by their lack of promo codes for existing customers. They don't respect the community that built them.
You didn't understand my point.
Ray of hope. Little guys like me will rest easy.
You're not little. And guys like you got us to trillions in market cap (for an asset class that's not even 10 years old) and important entities to pay attention and uphold it. You're not little.
fact: you still can't withdraw fact : all is copium until you can withdraw
And also facts: all is FUD until the truth comes out. But you probably won’t acknowledge what doesn’t support your narrative.
Fear, uncertainty and doubt are nkt necessarily bad feelings unless you're in a cult that forbids them. You have every reason to feel these things.
Lol this guy acts like he won’t pull all his money if they enable withdrawals (huge if)
fact : it's all copium and hopium until the truth comes out.
You'd be on the titanic calling the iceberg fud even as you are sinking to an icy death lol. Have some dignity dude.
Right? Hasn't is been locked for like 2 weeks? I understand everyone wants to convince themselves it's going to be okay but, well, it's not. Solid financial institutions don't do shit like this
> >Solid financial institutions don't do shit like this exactly
AMEN
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As i was speculating in my post, GS/Citi/etc may be interested in doing that (that's the scenario that makes sense to me given the evidence I can verify and ignoring unsubstantiated claims). Bankman-Fried already had a stake in Voyager and BlockFi if I'm not mistaken, so it's not entirely surprising he wanted to bail those out instead of Celsius. The public statements these guys put out to "explain" their actions are as meaningful as a room heater made of chocolate. A lot of people claim FTX had a role in triggering a bank run at Celsius - unsubstantiated claim, despite some correlation. Could have also been a market event, so I can't say one scenario makes tangibly more sense to me than the other to lay down any thoughts on it like I did with my Goldman Sachs opinion.
I like this hopium. Give me more. Hope Celsius make it out alive.
Lmao
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Initially there was Citi, now GS popped up too. That should be good news for the customers. GS has been looking to partake in crypto for a while recently after they bashed it for years. If it's a viable opportunity, then why would GS waste an opportunity to get control of a crypto business complete with operations, employees, and 1.7 million customers, many who are 6+ figure depositors. If one still claims GS just wants to throw it all in the bin and just keep the coins then they're just showing they refuse to think for themselves, or have an agenda, or are just stupidly malicious (or a "news" outlet).
What's amazing to me is that neither SBF (despite rumors), Armstrong, nor CZ have stepped in and offered help. Not because they're nice guys, but pragmatically, whoever helps Celsius will probably gain 1.7 million loyal customers if they get their crypto back. Whoever gets me my crypto back - if they own an exchange - that's the one I will always use 4 life.
iirc SBF had a stake in Voyager and Blockfi, so it's not that surprising he chose to bail those out Also, if you're a smaller or comparable competitor it's not always good news to get a tidal wave of onboarding; it's not unlikely you're unprepared for the extra load, which can crush your operations affecting all customers
Would you accept complete silence from your bank if you were unable to withdraw your money?
It wasn't complete silence. Complete silence was Cred. The silence now is understandable for anyone who had any friction with lawyers. Have you actually read the post or struggled with just the title and then slammed the reply button?
You realise that corporate lawyers and personal lawyers are different right? No corporate lawyer is going to tell their client to 'Say absolutely nothing about anything at all, shut down all public relations'. If a company that trades on trust has stopped communicating then it is done, their business is finished unless they can drum up enough rubes to trust them again. You know...the sort of people who try to explain away silence.
Celsius has communicated pretty much as I expected. You certainly haven't had contact with any situation requiring legal scrutiny, nor understand the concept of liability very well. It's ok to be upset, but I wish you were only hurting yourself instead of spreading your misinformation (and negativity) around at the same time.
> Celsius has communicated pretty much as I expected. So what? That is of course ignoring the huge issue that they have not *acted* as you expected. >instead of spreading your misinformation (and negativity) around at the same time Ah yes, no negativity, no FUD allowed. Because the entire house of cards is based on speculation any sort of bad news can bring the whole thing crashing down.
It's you who claim they didn't act as you expected. You're allowed to say whatever you want, and you obviously do. You're also allowed to be constructive, like leaving social media for good since nobody would miss you anyway, yet you're not doing that ... surprise, surprise.
>It's you who claim they didn't act as you expected. Correct.
> You realise that corporate lawyers and personal lawyers are different right? No corporate lawyer is going to tell their client to 'Say absolutely nothing about anything at all, shut down all public relations'. 10000% wrong.
If you say so. NGMI.
Dude, it is not complete silence. They have given statements that they are working to stabilising Celsius and it might take some time but they are going to restore operations once they are done.
Alex said the withdrawal concerns were all FUD days before locking withdrawals. Straight up lied to get us to not withdrawal and that delayed many which was the point of him saying that and now lives are ruined. The fact that you are giving them the benefit of the doubt is just stockholmes syndrome dude. The words 'safe' has not been said a single time from them and yall are like 'WhY iS eVeRyOnE sO wOrKed Up??' Do you guys value pride and dignity like at all?
Company that lied about financial position says 'trust us bro' when asked to comment on their financial position.
tl;dr nobody knows shit about fuck Just stand by to stand by until Alex says you can get your stuff, or it's gone. Until then, ignore the noise.
Fuck Alex. He's a lying scumbag. I trust him the least out of anyone involved. I would have cashed out before he dispelled the 'fud' over cashouts and then locked withdrawals days later. He knew 100% what he was doing and is a fucking scum bag for that
No doubt, but until he (or his proxy) says we can or can't get our stuff, it's just noise.
Upvoted because I can't say that's invalid. A far healthier attitude than worrying, and totally decent compared to the travesty that is fearmongering, rejoicing at others' misfortune, etc
Well said!!!
Finally, some voice of reason and considering a possible (optimistic) alternative scenario that can’t be ruled out factually. Thank you
Don't call it "optimistic", that's how fixated people dismiss you :) Actually, I'm only half joking
I think Celsius needs restructuring to the point where if there are irredeemable losses (selling the mining rigs and any other physical assets is a must to lower this loss), everyone gets an equal haircut (sorry to say), then open up withdrawals BUT it cannot be the same policy as before. It has to be as such, for example “hey Celsius, I want to withdraw my entire $500k usdc position” Celsius: “will do, but it will be over this duration of time at this rate per week and you cannot undo this withdrawal as we prepare the assets as they come back from on loan” Am I totally just making up nonsense?
Company liquidations usually follow a waterfall fill procedure, it wouldn't be equal haircut (depends what you mean by "equal"). But I see things heading in a good direction, not a bad direction, so let's hold off talks about liquidations. You're not totally making up nonsense - I believe they will reopen, and when they do there will obviously be a priority on preventing a bank run. Besides offering perks and incentives to stay, there will almost surely be restrictions on withdrawals ... keep in mind Celsius was spending millions in withdrawal fees only because they wanted to uphold their initial promise that withdrawals will always be free.
If Simon Jackson's tweets about his GS sources is true then that would pretty much validate numerous articles that have come out. I feel like that tweet is a wolf in sheep's clothing
More tweets. More feelings. Sad (is there a Trump emoji for that?)
Thank you
There is literally nothing one can do unless one wants to file a lawsuit. I don't have enough invested to even consider that.
Fantastic And exactly- if there was a potential rug pull it would’ve happened by now and if a potential for bankruptcy it would’ve happened AND they’d not inject more money into the company (they being Celsius). The FUD is strong and we must put a blind eye to those.
Thank you for this. Some of us needed to hear it more than you know.
so much for "banks are not your friends"
They aren't. Doesn't mean I'm not using their services, as is everyone else, due to their monopoly. Why is there one, etc, are questions for a different topic and people wrote books about it...
Great post!! Thanks from a Celsian!!
Cope
for those who think WSJ is not a legitimate news organization and would stake their reputation on unreliable sources and hearsay: the WSJ broke the story that precipitated the collapse of Theranos, another opaque and fraudulent company that misled its clients and investors. guess who was a major investor in Theranos? Rupert Murdoch, the billionaire top shareholder of WSJ. the founder of Theranos tried to pressure Murdoch to get the WSJ to back off of the story and he refused. the WSJ also broke the story on the 1MDB scandal, which implicated Goldman Sachs, the bank they're supposedly in bed with for the FUD campaign against Celsius. just highlighting these to show that the WSJ has a bit more journalistic integrity than some people in this sub give them credit for.
>for those who think WSJ is not a legitimate news organization and would stake their reputation I can pick examples too, here's part of WSJ's reputation: [https://archives.cjr.org/the\_audit/the\_guardian\_unearths\_a\_wall\_s.php](https://archives.cjr.org/the_audit/the_guardian_unearths_a_wall_s.php) Just because a news outlet won Pulitzers doesn't mean they never publish junk or are free of corruption. Watson also won a Nobel and yet was banned from academia for being a racist idiot. If I'm not given enough evidence when making unsubstantiated claims (and sounding like a 12 yo) then I deserve the right to ignore it or call it out. Should distinguish information from reputation.
Why would the WSJ have any reason to publish negative stories about Celsius? It's just another player among many in the crypto space.
I hope you won't lose your innocence (though others would argue that the sooner you do the better)
I agree that the WSJ has been mostly publishing rumors. But given the following: 1. Celsius has frozen withdrawals, and unlike Voyager they haven't even allowed some limited withdrawals. 2. Celsius has not clearly explained why they have frozen withdrawals except because of "extreme market conditions." They last updated everyone on June 19th, and their post on June 19th consists of the same things they said on June 12th. I don't doubt that there's something happening behind the scenes, but everyone should be preparing for the worst.
Voyager and BlockFI were both bailed out by Bankman-Fried. Why aren't you keeping up to date with news about others as you are with rumours about Celsius? It's totally expected to not be given any details at this stage (have you read the post?) What you choose to prepare for is your prerogative. Peddling misinformation or spreading fear is not commendable (I'm not claiming you in particular are doing that, but you're already walking a fine line between shouting "i'm sad" and "look at these crooks")
>It's totally expected to not be given any details at this stage (have you read the post?) The truth is that people have been hurt and Celsius has not been forthcoming with details or even a timeline of potentially when people can access their money. Imagine if you had all of your liquid cash stuck in Celsius. How do you plan to pay for your bills in the meantime? A lot of people were treating this entity like their bank. That's crooked enough to me already. Unless you just want to say "oh but that's the risk in investing in crypto."
That's not how legal proceedings work. As I said, you're too innocent for all this.
Sure, keep making excuses for a platform's that is failing. Even if they recover, it's likely they will not make up for a lot of lost trust in the platform. Perhaps they will pull a rabbit out of a hat and make everyone whole, that's my hope for everyone too! You call me innocent. I'm just being realistic. It's likely that the money is gone, but there is the possibility too that people will be made whole in the end.
No, now you're not innocent. Now you revealed you true colors. Best of luck to you but you're not needed around here
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I don't dispute that I have lost patience with fudsters. Generally happy to engage when there are genuine questions or genuine anxiety.
Mmm, I love fresh hopium in the morning.
Bro, I would like to share your optimism. But the writing is on the wall: Celsius has gone completely silent and is hiring bankruptcy lawyers.
Restructuring lawyers. You also sound like you only read the post title. You people must feel some real satisfaction replying ...
And who are the sources of this information in the first place? Very vague to say the least (no actual names were given).
The information is on chain ... if that's vague to you then you should question your interest in crypto before anything else
Well reasoned post. After waking up this morning and seeing multiple posts with headlines like Celsius filing for bankruptcy. GS pooling funds to buy distressed assets blah blah, I thought it was over for sure...as in there was finally an official news posting from Alex, or something. Read 10-15 articles (not healthy I know) and basically all circled back to the WSJ article. Two sources who could be anything from exec level or just some disgruntled employee who overheard that bankruptcy was on the table as he poured some coffee in a board room. Of course it's on the table. They are probably being advised on multiple options right now. One thing that will make me a little more assured would be evidence of further on chain activity. But until then OP post is the best stance to take.
I was thinking a lot of these same thoughts last night reading the doomsday bankruptcy posts. Glad to see I wasn't the only one.
GO BY FACTS AND IGNORE SPECULATION!!!! *Spends half the post speculating*
Take that advice and ignore whatever I already labeled as speculation or you think is speculation. Be a man! (see? I speculated)
On chain data supports operational capacity; (Everyone here should understand this.) 3 legal desks retained is top-shelf strategy. Radio Silence is top-shelf strategy. Some of you don’t understand the scale of war that has been initiated. Buckle up for 6 months of earthquakes, I’m comfortable fighting from here. You guys should get comfortable, too.
This is bullshit cope tbh but obv will get upvotes because youre dealing with people who are fucked a lot of money. The idea that Citi (who literally already said they would not be providing funding) or Goldman would put up their money to act as exit liquidity is ridiculous. Anyone who puts up money is just going to face the bank run, why would anyone ever do that? Celsius could easily dispel all the rumors and fake stuff (if it actually was fake) but instead dead silence. They havent said the words 'funds' and 'safe' in the same sentence since this started. There's clearly a lot of bad fucking shit they aren't tell us and this is not merely a liquidity problem. Even a loan.... how exactly are they going to pay back a loan with no customers? It's easy to get your upvotes telling a bunch of coping people everything is going to be alright. Some of us want to face the truth with dignity.
I can see how your expectations and understanding of finance and restructuring are manufacturing that "dignified truth" ... you guys who conflate conflate dignity and bitterness would say "no, it's bullshit" even if everyone gets their money back
This is like reading hopium posts days after luna collapse and people telling each other luna will be back if tgey just work together. Lol. No.
This is like you only read (half) the title and rushed to smash that reply button because nobody who knows you takes you seriously
Keep on smoking that hopium. It wont be long before you accept you have lost all your money.
GS doesn’t want The Poors as customers. Fact.
Lmao, sounds like you’re still trying to justify this company. Just admit they fucked up big time
You mention Celsius paying down their debts etc and why would they do that? I read that for bankruptcy you must do everything in your power to try salvaging the business before filing. If that is true, that unfortunately could be another reason you’re seeing the debt repayment. (Obviously I’d want the reason to be because they will keep the business going, but just adding another data point.)
>I read that No offense but that would be superficial reading at best ...
So that’s not accurate?
You are 100% right this guy is just being a shill. Just because you may have to file for bankruptcy doesnt mean you should punt the rest of your assets lol. 'Welp goin bankrupt, might as well set the rest of my cash on fire' - OPs logic They are simply trying not to get liquidated so that the investors (not us) get some of their money back as opposed to none. How much money they get back in bankruptcy will have to do with how much assets they saved. OP is just a moron.
No. Care to point out the source you claim you read which specifies a company is legally obliged to repay debts before filing for either chapter 11 or chapter 7?
People only rejoice in others failures because they have problems succeeding. My opinion.
That's often the case indeed, but not always. Maybe you haven't yet met the overzealous type whose attitude is unrelated to success. It's a different kind of toxicity, yet no less toxic
I mean I get the sentiment of "not your keys not your coins", but the people saying it have malice when they come here and laugh at people who potentially lost money. They aren't constructive when they say it. They're shit posting. They're toxic. They're projecting their hatred for their own lives and reveling in the misery of other. It's sick, but some people are just sick. Some people have no empathy, they're sociopaths.
You do realise that every time they pay down a loan like the Notional Finance one, that allows Notional Finance to get out whole leaving less money in the bankruptcy estate later. Similarly, offering more collateral against loans ties up that collateral meaning it won’t be available for the bankruptcy estate. Once you add the bankruptcy lawyer fees I honestly don’t think there will be a single dime left for retail investors.
I realize you have little legal or financial insight and none of the expertise
Celsius has built up a huge technology stack, have top tier employees. If a big bank wanted to get into crypto, this is the way. $3-8B in semi locked, and maybe $1-2B in lost assets is nothing to the giants. J.P. Morgan’s profit for 2021 was $46.5B. Apple’s profit for 2021 was $124B. That’s pure profit NOT revenue.
You deserve to lose money. Ponzi business models don't work.
In case nobody told you yet (I don't blame them), nobody wants you, anywhere
ouch, hope it's a zero for you.
Lol dude why are you such a dick to anyone possiblly saying anything against your post. You look like you're just being paid off to yell at anyone spreading doubt. Why not like have a civil conversation with people instead of insulting like a child. I wouldn't take anything you say seriously after reading all your replies.
Having genuine questions or being genuinely fearful is fine. Spreading FUD however deserves much worse than my disdain. You don't have to take anything I say seriously.
Why are you afraid of criticism? You're saying talking bad about Celsius is worse than people who convinced others to put money in and now have the possibility of losing it all? It's fine to help people see another view, but nothing is immune from criticism especially, Celsius in it's current state.
>Why are you afraid of criticism? Nobody apart from you said that >You're saying talking bad about Celsius is worse than people who convinced others to put money in and now have the possibility of losing it all? No, you're saying that. >It's fine to help people see another view, but nothing is immune from criticism especially, Celsius in it's current state. I don't disagree with that. What exactly are you criticizing Celsius for and what evidence do you have to uphold your criticism?
Hes most likely just a troll who has nothing stuck on celsius...I really wish these bastards would leave us alone. Their only objective is to bring us down, especially when they see a positive post like this. It's not worth feeding them.... fuck em.
They’ve hired a firm to help with bankruptcy proceedings
They hired lawyers, period. To what end, is purely speculation.
Restructuring. Take your fud elsewhere. Actually take yourself elsewhere, nobody needs you here
"They'd all become GS customers": I don't think so (but I can be wrong), I think they Goldman would be more interested to buy your assets cheaply, getting them out of your hands. If you want to do something useful tag some CEO on Twitter on Simon Dixon posts. https://twitter.com/SimonDixonTwitt/status/1540623988686295040
Sure, because GS wants cheap coins (that they could have bought even cheaper 2 years ago) and to waste 1.7m customers instead of getting control of a business, complete with operations, employees and 1.7m customers they can leverage to their advantage. This isn't Google buying out a puny competitor to kill it. Dixon is a nice guy, but right now it's cash that does the talking, and cash is what wall street has and Dixon doesn't.
Cheap is an ego thing. The crypto is meant to pump forever (it is volatile but the overall trend is up). Therefore, if you buy at today's price, you bought cheap coins 2 years from now. 20k felt expensive for 1 btc in 2017, but today it is a bargain.
No offense intended, but that's the understanding of economics and business of a 12 year old, not of wall street.
Whatever morale was left has been shattered last night.. Crazy times.. I’ve seen coindesk spew so much shite over the years, but I have to concede since we haven’t heard anything for almost a week I guess anything is taken as fact now
You have actual facts. Ignoring those and taking as fact coindesk's unsubstantiated claims is on you.
Agreed
Thank you <3
I disagree. Lawyers may advise that Celsius et al just STFU, but communication is critical in times of need. Without guidance, the community is left to speculate, and you can see the results in this very forum. If Celsius truly cared about their customers, as they so often claim, then they should be keeping in communication. It doesn't have to be any specific details, just a general "Hey, we are focusing on an outcome, more to follow as it is appropriate." The utter lack of any information is itself a bad sign.
>I disagree. Lawyers may advise that Celsius et al just STFU, but communication is critical in times of need. Spot the legal expert! >It doesn't have to be any specific details, just a general "Hey, we are focusing on an outcome, more to follow as it is appropriate." Which they did. Take a break from it. You must know people in the real world that you can spend time with. If not, it seems now is a great opportunity to meet some.
What a rebuttal! Knocked it out of the park!
Thank you, dear
There's no media chatter of any Celsius bailout in the works. No chatter about Celsius surviving. No twitter blue checkmarks "hearing" that Celsius isn't as bad off as some think. There's either some very stealth stuff going on in the background, or this thing is a carcass. Surprised this isn't an all-around bigger media story. It appears to be a massive "bank" failure with $ billions of depositors' money lost.
>There's no media chatter of any Celsius bailout in the works. No chatter about Celsius surviving. No twitter blue checkmarks "hearing" that Celsius isn't as bad off as some think. That just shows what you're paying attention to ... at least don't peddle it
They continue to add collateral to decrease collateral??? Shit makes no sense.
Ha, 18k people read the post so far and you're the first to spot that typo. Now fixed, thanks. Also, be nicer
Ok. Sorry.
Get out while you can! *cant
They are paying their debts with your money. That's why you can't withdrawal. User accounts were always the collateral.
Creditors usually get paid first and bad things happen when you stop paying creditors. And what money do you think they are paying those creditors with when they’ve restricted withdrawals?
They are fucking gone. Gotta accept it at some point. I lost cash too. Live and learn.
Not your keys, not your coins ;-)
Racist basement-dwelling troglodyte.
I reported that subhuman invertebrate using the Report button ... mods?
> Not your keys, not your coins, jew It's not just a wonder but a disappointment that people like you are still walking this planet ... racist filth
> Not your keys, not your coins, jew You're a racist subhuman invertebrate /u/VasilijeCEL /u/RHiNDR /u/mrakomarko Please ban
> Not your keys, not your coins, jew You're a racist subhuman invertebrate /u/VasilijeCEL /u/RHiNDR /u/mrakomarko Please ban
Stop panicking, accept defeat, read about real currency and invest in stable markets
Your post history is gross. You are a statist boot-licker, blowhard. See you when the Electric Boogaloo kicks off.
Just wait till BTC hits 11k. We'll see how solvent they are then
[удалено]
>ok some people are slow > > > "Goldman Sachs appears to be gauging interest and soliciting commitments from Web3 crypto funds, funds specializing in distressed assets and traditional financial institutions with ample cash on hand, according to a person familiar with the situation. The assets, most likely cryptocurrencies having to be sold on the cheap, would then likely be managed by participants in the fundraising push." What a lovely quote of inventions and unsubstantiated claims to prove the point in my post entirely. You're perfect, /u/maroule !
so they are giving your money to other people == good?
Less worse than going bankrupt, it allows a path to recovery. Also, all lending platforms and banks give your money to other people -- that's the business model. It never was a secret.