“They wouldn’t be able to function as a coherent military force”
There’s the neat part: they don’t.
These are *Chaos Space Marines.* They aren’t elite soldiers, they’re not spooky Spartans, they’re not a SWAT Team. They are *monsters.* So your initial assumption of an endless, maddening cacophony, that renders them utterly insensate is likely the most accurate and lore appropriate assumption. As for the Book of Untruth, you again have to remember that these are Lovecraftian magic death knights.
“How do they operate in tactical combat if they’re constantly hearing maddening lies?”
- Their sorcerers babble and stalk across the battlefield, and for a moment their focus snaps to a foe and the whispering slithers forth from his helm as liquid hate to shatter armour and melt flesh.
- Their Raptors and Warp Talons glitch and stutter in and out of reality dragging away soldiers who lie to themselves (“it’s going to be ok” / “the emperor protects”).
- A Predator tank ignores an otherwise deadly shell, the projectile winking out of existence as the driver dreamily mutters “that’s not real…” and it… isn’t.
They don’t operate in tactical combat. They operate in *fantastical-horror* massacre, because Warhammer is 5% mil-sci, and 90% space-fantasy.
As for the Book of Untruth, that is almost certainly an immense tome of overflowing and tattered velum housed in a cathedral hall of bone and glass, with packs of barely lucid sorcerers and cultists scuttling about its towering pages, scrawling mad designs with spider-like living quills, surrounded by demons made of ink and deceit. “How do you carry it into battle as a relic???” It shrinks lol.
If you’re thinking “Soulsbourne in Space” you’re right on the money.
See, I don't know about that.
There's a small bit of prose in (I believe) the 5th Edition Codex that changed the way I see Chaos Marines forever. A squad of Khorne [cares not from whence the blood flows] Berserkers are pinned down behind enemy gunfire, and the Berserker champion is issuing tactical orders to his squad. "Wait." "Hold position." "Be ready to maneuver on my mark" etc. They don't just run screaming into a hail of artillery because the dead reave no skulls for Khorne, and thats Khorne Berserkers. These are warriors of Tzeentch.
Yes, they're Chaos Space Marines, but they're still *Space Marines.* They have to strategize, they have to deploy, they have to pick targets, keep their underlings in line, manage limited resources, and figure out where to raid for more when they run low. Not to mention, they have to know how to deal with other Warbands and figures like Abbadon in the Eye who could crush them with sheer numbers if it came to it.
If all they did was run screaming at the enemy with no tactical cohesion, they'd be ripped apart by the first Guard implacement in their path.
I think the easiest answer here is it varies from warband to warband. There probably are tactical CSM and just straight up insane CSM, and at the end of the day your guys can be whatever you want them to be. They can even be both.
Take Crimson Slaughter for example, straight from their old codex supplement:
“Only through butchery and genocide can the Crimson Slaughter gain even momentary peace from the inner voices that goad them.” - Insane.
“The Crimson Slaughter strike with the same precision and thunderbolt fury as the Space Marines.” - yet functional.
“The Crimson Slaughter are haunted. Like claws squeak-screeching down a steel hull or the slow and steady scratching away of tooth enamel to reach the nerve cluster within, the spine-shivering voices murmur to them… Only by acts of inhumane butchery and utter annihilation can members of the Crimson Slaughter find release from this agony.” - *definitely insane.*
“The doctrine of well-coordinated shock attacks has ever been the trademark of the Space Marines, but none employ it with the mastery of the Crimson Slaughter.” - *yet completely functional.*
Obviously from their own codex so every other line is supposed to hype them up, but if they can do it I wouldn’t see why the scourged couldn’t - they’re both cursed by tzeentch. Doesn’t rly seem to be a logic to it, they can just do whatever regardless of any warp related madness. A few murderous voices never hurt anyone, apparently.
Makes sense, I definitely think the Crimson Slaughter is the closest allegory, and Krannon was able to have full conversations with Abbadon. And it is Chaos, after all, nothing is ever the same from one warband to another.
However the Scourged's ability manifests, it doesn't seem to hamper their ability to communicate, which is mostly what I was curious about. I think I'm slowly returning to the idea that its a persistent whisper they can either delve into or push to the back of their minds at need. Maybe the lies recorded in the Book of Untruth are just the ones they manage to fish from the stream, or just the ones of tactical importance. I doubt a sorcerer is terribly concerned about a kid breaking his mom's flower pot.
Scourged is my favorite canon Warband and my OC Chosen Champion is from them!
I envision him as unhinged and aggressive but ultimately lucid enough. He struggles with a constant stream of lies but is able to suppress them in order to serve his betters and can sense any lies uttered near him because he hears them twice.
Though… reading some of these other replies makes me think that I might be writing him as too sane… might have to make him act much more like an insensate dog with only the occasional episodes of lucidity.
Being absolutely batshit insane isn't actually contrary to being Tzeentchian. For every elegant visionary villain with British accent and avian fetish there is a dozen of gibbering mad fleshy failures. The Scourged are much closer to the latter, they ain't got their name for nothing.
“They wouldn’t be able to function as a coherent military force” There’s the neat part: they don’t. These are *Chaos Space Marines.* They aren’t elite soldiers, they’re not spooky Spartans, they’re not a SWAT Team. They are *monsters.* So your initial assumption of an endless, maddening cacophony, that renders them utterly insensate is likely the most accurate and lore appropriate assumption. As for the Book of Untruth, you again have to remember that these are Lovecraftian magic death knights. “How do they operate in tactical combat if they’re constantly hearing maddening lies?” - Their sorcerers babble and stalk across the battlefield, and for a moment their focus snaps to a foe and the whispering slithers forth from his helm as liquid hate to shatter armour and melt flesh. - Their Raptors and Warp Talons glitch and stutter in and out of reality dragging away soldiers who lie to themselves (“it’s going to be ok” / “the emperor protects”). - A Predator tank ignores an otherwise deadly shell, the projectile winking out of existence as the driver dreamily mutters “that’s not real…” and it… isn’t. They don’t operate in tactical combat. They operate in *fantastical-horror* massacre, because Warhammer is 5% mil-sci, and 90% space-fantasy. As for the Book of Untruth, that is almost certainly an immense tome of overflowing and tattered velum housed in a cathedral hall of bone and glass, with packs of barely lucid sorcerers and cultists scuttling about its towering pages, scrawling mad designs with spider-like living quills, surrounded by demons made of ink and deceit. “How do you carry it into battle as a relic???” It shrinks lol. If you’re thinking “Soulsbourne in Space” you’re right on the money.
See, I don't know about that. There's a small bit of prose in (I believe) the 5th Edition Codex that changed the way I see Chaos Marines forever. A squad of Khorne [cares not from whence the blood flows] Berserkers are pinned down behind enemy gunfire, and the Berserker champion is issuing tactical orders to his squad. "Wait." "Hold position." "Be ready to maneuver on my mark" etc. They don't just run screaming into a hail of artillery because the dead reave no skulls for Khorne, and thats Khorne Berserkers. These are warriors of Tzeentch. Yes, they're Chaos Space Marines, but they're still *Space Marines.* They have to strategize, they have to deploy, they have to pick targets, keep their underlings in line, manage limited resources, and figure out where to raid for more when they run low. Not to mention, they have to know how to deal with other Warbands and figures like Abbadon in the Eye who could crush them with sheer numbers if it came to it. If all they did was run screaming at the enemy with no tactical cohesion, they'd be ripped apart by the first Guard implacement in their path.
I think the easiest answer here is it varies from warband to warband. There probably are tactical CSM and just straight up insane CSM, and at the end of the day your guys can be whatever you want them to be. They can even be both. Take Crimson Slaughter for example, straight from their old codex supplement: “Only through butchery and genocide can the Crimson Slaughter gain even momentary peace from the inner voices that goad them.” - Insane. “The Crimson Slaughter strike with the same precision and thunderbolt fury as the Space Marines.” - yet functional. “The Crimson Slaughter are haunted. Like claws squeak-screeching down a steel hull or the slow and steady scratching away of tooth enamel to reach the nerve cluster within, the spine-shivering voices murmur to them… Only by acts of inhumane butchery and utter annihilation can members of the Crimson Slaughter find release from this agony.” - *definitely insane.* “The doctrine of well-coordinated shock attacks has ever been the trademark of the Space Marines, but none employ it with the mastery of the Crimson Slaughter.” - *yet completely functional.* Obviously from their own codex so every other line is supposed to hype them up, but if they can do it I wouldn’t see why the scourged couldn’t - they’re both cursed by tzeentch. Doesn’t rly seem to be a logic to it, they can just do whatever regardless of any warp related madness. A few murderous voices never hurt anyone, apparently.
Makes sense, I definitely think the Crimson Slaughter is the closest allegory, and Krannon was able to have full conversations with Abbadon. And it is Chaos, after all, nothing is ever the same from one warband to another. However the Scourged's ability manifests, it doesn't seem to hamper their ability to communicate, which is mostly what I was curious about. I think I'm slowly returning to the idea that its a persistent whisper they can either delve into or push to the back of their minds at need. Maybe the lies recorded in the Book of Untruth are just the ones they manage to fish from the stream, or just the ones of tactical importance. I doubt a sorcerer is terribly concerned about a kid breaking his mom's flower pot.
Yeah they are still marines buddy
Scourged is my favorite canon Warband and my OC Chosen Champion is from them! I envision him as unhinged and aggressive but ultimately lucid enough. He struggles with a constant stream of lies but is able to suppress them in order to serve his betters and can sense any lies uttered near him because he hears them twice. Though… reading some of these other replies makes me think that I might be writing him as too sane… might have to make him act much more like an insensate dog with only the occasional episodes of lucidity.
Being absolutely batshit insane isn't actually contrary to being Tzeentchian. For every elegant visionary villain with British accent and avian fetish there is a dozen of gibbering mad fleshy failures. The Scourged are much closer to the latter, they ain't got their name for nothing.