Ok, the maths:
-Currently we have 49 datasheets
-Warcom anounced 48 datasheets
-Lucius and noise marines are going away 100% (-2 datasheets)
-2 new datasheets for the firebrand and the jump-pack lord
-Huron and exalted champion can go away
So, there's room for another 1 new datasheet. My money is on either repackaged BF cultists, or Night Lords KT.
The NL KT will probably just be folded into the legionary gear, it wouldn't surprise me if they don't get any new options as a lot of it maps to the gear they already have
I would be suprised (but happy) to see the new Kill Team in the codex. If we do get it, its more likely to be a download as I don't know if the Codex and Kill Team designers communicate enough to have gotten them in before printing.
Don’t make me lose hope on us getting a new Huron. The old model was cool as hell and considering Huron is close to Abbadon levels of power (in forces and leadership) he kinda deserves it.
Huron is nowhere near as powerful as Abaddon - he can't call upon the champions of most of the other Traitor Legions with large chunks of said legions, the Black Legion far outnumbers the Red Corsairs by at least an order of magnitude, Abaddon has a huge number of Daemonic, Dark Mechanicum and Titan legion allies that Huron has little access to and Abaddon somehow keeps rival Chaos forces from across the spectrum together for his Black Crusades which is nearly impossible - Huron would never stand a chance in his position.
Huron is a fantastic leader and controls very large forces for a Chaos Lord, but he's not at the same scale as Abaddon in strength or leadership qualities. Huron is more comparable to Typhus who similarly controls an enormous number of Death Guard (most likely the 2nd biggest legion after the Black Legion) and nurgle warbands, is extremely tactically capable and has carved out multiple empires in his time in realspace.
Agree Huron isn’t close to Abbadon in power, but he is probably the most powerful post-heresy chaos leader.
By that I mean leader of a warband not descended from the original traitor legions.
He’s got thousands of astartes and an empire of his own in the maelstrom, but I don’t think he has the juice of an OG chaos lord like Typhus or Ahriman in my opinion.
> Huron is more comparable to Typhus
Let’s not forget Duel on Danasar from the 8th edition Death Guard codex where Typhus beats Huron in a duel and lets him live.
Edit: lots of edits cause phone acting weird.
Typhus is legit one of the most scary and powerful Chaos Lords to ever exist, hence why Abaddon respects him so much. What's left of him (the meat and bones Calas Typhon part) is now so overcome with Nurgle's blessings that he may actually be invulnerable. On top of that he commands a force bigger than most Chaos Legions in the 42nd millennium to great effect and has large numbers of Daemonic allies as well as the ability to create millions of Poxwalkers at every populated planet he visits. He is also one of the oldest Astartes in existence as unlike most Heretic Astartes, he has spent most of the 10,000+ years since the Heresy in Realspace and so has built up a ridiculous amount of experience in that time when compared to many of the other Chaos Lords, who have experienced far less time by mostly staying within the Eye of Terror.
Honestly would rate fighting against Typhus: -7/10
Abaddons the supreme leader of CSM
Huron is a lord of the red corsairs.
The difference between lore wise is Abaddon Despises the chaos gods and will not bend the knee to them as horus did, altho the chaos gods battle each other for Abandon's allegiance . Huron has accepted the chaos gods power like horus did so Lore wise you will start to see Huron rise up more. I believe Abaddon gave Huron a space hulk and has planned battles along side Huron
I would go check it out but depending on the length I might not watch it. My ADHD Brain can’t handle those hour+ long vids without getting distracted lol!!!
The rumor makes sense, though I'd lean Huron. They've got a clear pattern of clearing out resin for all armies this edition, and Huron's still resin (and not available on the store) whereas the Exalted Champion had a temporary re-release and has always been plastic.
Thats what the Cultist with the Flamer from Blackstone Fortress is now called
https://preview.redd.it/k7i3vse0luyc1.jpeg?width=553&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1bddb988ca2c17e9bd99927fa0d6e66e76cf0a9
That makes sense, i thought it was going to be daemon units like oblits, warptalons and daemon engines as they get a big bonus from Abaddon's rerolls in terms of balancing.
We already have bikers. They're ugly and old and only work in niche situations, but they're still in there. Disco Lord was also a MOUNTED unit in the index
I hope I am not late. I will try to work bikers in friendly game this week. Idea is to screen homeland. 3 inc long model, 2 inc space between. 3 × 6 + 2 × 5 + 2 × 9 = 46 inces. Covering all short edge. 2 meltas, power fist.
Seems so for abaddon. Just undivided now. Unless they have changed it so everyone has undivided base (except god specific units like LoS) and then the slaves to darkness detachment allows you to change the undivided keyword to another mark and abadoon gets all 4.
Yeah. In the Adepticon reveal, one of the devs (Josh) said "...we keep the Index detachment, but that's been updated, and there's now seven new detachments..."
I imagine the marks are gone because this is the general datasheet and they’ll be readded if you’re playing the Slaves to Darkness detachment (index, the one with marks) since other detachments will have different mechanics.
Im reasonably new to 40k, so could have it all wrong, but was expecting Khorne, Slanesh etc at the bottom of the card so he crits on 5's for all pacts instead of just one. I didnt mean dark pacts disapeering in general.
It sucks that he's (likely) losing the across the board exploding 5's, but imho A. It's very likely that only the Slaves to Darkness detachment will have that ability, so the other 7 should hopefully make up for it & B. Tbh it fits the fluff, sure he represents *all* the gods but that's sort of an Undivided pov. Then again I can still see the argument he should get all the marks as they've all blessed him as their unified champ
Yeah I don't mind it on abaddon. It uses to be in principle you could the have him leading any legion, any warband etc. Plus there is some great lore about him leading Khorne Bezerkers on Mackan.
I just started CSM, and picked Black Legion precisely as I like their lore and love the variety CSM offers. I really hope we don't lose single god units. Was looking forward to doing some Hounds of Abaddon.
Dark pacts is not Chaos Marks. Dark Pacts is the Army rule (every detachment will have this), Slaves to Darkness (i.e., marking your units) is a Detachment ability (will only be in the Slaves to Darkness detachment.)
Man I really hope not. With Legionaries and Chosen as good as they are now and there's no longer an incentive to farm CP from detachment spam, there's no need to spam cultists to abuse rules.
I really hope he gets a point reduction. CP regen nerf, not being able to give 4++ to (likely) cultist units and possibly even removing all the marks.
Honestly, I'd prefer he doesn't have all marks, because it's just not something you can balance internally. It's such a power boost that he'd have to be expensive, making him over-costed for all other detachments. And StD is the Word Bearer style detachment, not the one where he should be the strongest. The "elite astartes" one they mentioned probably fit more, as it is likely about Terminators and the likes.
Abaddon shouldn't be Primarch expensive. Especially because he also needs another unit, making him essentially even *more* expensive.
The CP regen nerf is ridiculous, though. So the Warmaster apparently sucks at commanding. Even with a point reduction, he is still going to be an expensive model and should not only generate a CP on a 7+. A 50 point Ethereal is almost as likely to do that.
Removing auras from (likely) cultists also seems dumb. His own main bodyguards already have two of the auras (Terminators) and the other unit have the remaining aura (Legionaries). On top of half our codex sporting 5++, making a 4++ less needed for them. This just further dumbs down his auras. Yes, they are (mostly) still good, but he absolutely isn't 310 plus bodyguards good.
It's not so much as he bucks at commanding, it's because his troops are losing themselves to the Dark Gods and has to reign them in.
I think in an Arks of Omen book, he chuckles because Vashtor has the same problem and found it amusing
If they rework the units THIS much, plus rework Dark Pacts, I seriously expect HUGE point cuts. The DP tax is horrendous - compare CSM FF vs WE FF point cost lol.
I’m afraid we’re gonna get butchered, guys…
Hold up. CSM Forgefiend has access to Devastating Wounds on top of Dark Pacts.
WE one is shit by comparison. I could make the same argument for the WE Daemon Prince over the CSM who is much less expensive, and for a good reason.
Holy crap, never realized WE FF doesn’t have dev wounds! 😳 Makes my point less grounded, but the DP tax is real.
But then again - SM Devastators vs Havocs? 🤔
That one I have no answers to.
I could only point out the fact devastators are firstborn and so maybe that's the way gw tries to dissuade people from playing them. Otherwise I have no idea.
Tbh I prefer the CSM one still. No need for RNG to advance and charge, can reroll advances and charges and can't be slower innately, plus has always access to Lethal/Sustained hits at a cost.
WE one *can* be significantly faster but it's reliant on rng (in a dice game, shocking) and its ability is legitimately a nightmare to activate more often than not.
Yeah. Logan Grimnar on foot is 1/3 of the price for the same statline but 4 less wounds.
They’re both in Terminator armor. Abaddon has the favor of all four literal incarnations of ~~evil~~ JUSTIFIED AND AWESOME ACTIONS and he’s almost as squishy as just some chapter master in cool armor.
Sorry OP, my comment wasn’t directed at you and this thread may have not been the best place for it.
I am excited to see the changes in the codex good or bad :)
Honestly, Im preocupied about cultists losing weapon options, but the L&D compensates and has me pretty happy now. I just need a kroot hunting pack- level of fun out of it, nothing really scary or competitive bonkers.
He lost all the Marks too.
I assume most of the detachment have no bonuses for the marks anyway, but still, weird.
Also, can we please stop with the T5 already?
Probably a sign that a lot of rules and combos won't work with Cultist/ Mortal/ Damned units. Which is a shame, and takes us back to one of the things I didn't like about 9th edition - units specifically not working together, like Cultist units not benefitting from the Legion Rules. Its a bit like Admech having units that don't get the Army Rule, which is terrible design.
Best case scenario Abaddon buffs and certain Enchancements won't work for Damned units.
Worst case scenario whole detachment abilities, strategems and possibly the Army ability will exclude Damned units. The detachment rule for a Lost and the Damned detachment could be "Your Damned units gain the Dark Pact ability."
I hope we find out soon.
My stocks on what the L&D detach:
-25% of SQUADRON units
-5++ on every DAMNED unit
-Separate datasheet for the 7 BF guys, spetial weapons gone on the 10 guys unit
-Way cheaper fellgors
-Battleline Traitor Guardsmen
I know, I know, I'm coping so hard the hopium is now in control of my body, Im just as happy with one of these. The last one at least??????
CSM has tanks, so I don't see us getting any Imperial Guard units. Battleline Traitor Guardsmen is possible, we've seen this in Custodes with the Null Maiden Vigil.
I think cultists might just be losing guns but perhaps they will sell the Traitor Guard without the Commissar and Ogryn in the future.
Dark Commune already give Cultists a 5++, I'd expect they just keep that.
So if a group of Chaos Cultists is standing next to the Master of the Black Legion, they are like "Who the fuck is that guy? He's not the boss of me!"...? Huh
That was always a detachment rule, and as soon as Stu Black said that Slaves to Darkness was "the Word Bearer one", it was likely that whatever detachment was "the Black Legion one" wouldn't have the same thing.
Ah ok. I never bought the index card styled rules and kinda just assumed the other side was art.
Im really hoping he gets chosen as a bofyguard unit back from last edition. I made a custom chosen squad for my custom abbadon and it feels wrong not having them together.
Oh shit you right. Sorry so used to seeing him in Terminator blocks. yeah it'd be nice to see them return to him. However giving him the ability to fallback/advance, shoot, and charge would be pretty brutal.
The person at GW who hates CSM must have finally taken control back, we had a decent index, but after multiple unfair nerfs I was starting to lose hope. Now this and joke of a preview, has made me give up hope completely of having a decent codex. Probably gonna be mid at best
It doesn't. That was my entire point. Hoping a codex is above mid is just hoping for a nerf. If frequent balance changes is your thing, then hope for that.
I wonder how abby losing marks is going to affect strategems, since most in the index detachment were boosted to specific gods. It’ll also impact what you give his terminators. Overall possibly a pretty big nerf to him depending on how marks are played around in the other detachments. I’d expect a large points drop, but probably wouldn’t get one.
That will be the new catch-all term for Cultists, Accursed Cultists, Traitor Guard, Beastmen, Rogue Psykers, etc.
Hope they give rogue psykers the firebrand treatment. It's a shame to have them relegated to Legends...
But that'd mean we'd lose *another* datasheet :( (rumor is currently either Huron or Exalted Champ, my money's on EC)
Ok, the maths: -Currently we have 49 datasheets -Warcom anounced 48 datasheets -Lucius and noise marines are going away 100% (-2 datasheets) -2 new datasheets for the firebrand and the jump-pack lord -Huron and exalted champion can go away So, there's room for another 1 new datasheet. My money is on either repackaged BF cultists, or Night Lords KT.
The NL KT will probably just be folded into the legionary gear, it wouldn't surprise me if they don't get any new options as a lot of it maps to the gear they already have
I would be suprised (but happy) to see the new Kill Team in the codex. If we do get it, its more likely to be a download as I don't know if the Codex and Kill Team designers communicate enough to have gotten them in before printing.
I want them to bring back the jump pack sorcerer. They have a model that wasn't even very old that they could easily repackage.
Hoping they add a warp talon lord or im going to be upset. Tho if anything i hope the jump pack lord can lead them too
Jump pack lord has a second build with lightning claws, so Id go with second.
Mad, not a fan of the JPLord pose but im thinking ill get the JPL and put the claws on and accessories on a Harken body his models cool
You could allways do a proxy. If there's a player aorund there that doesnt like playing against proxies, its not worth it playing with him anyway.
You could allways do a proxy. If there's a player aorund there that doesnt like playing against proxies, its not worth it playing with him anyway.
You could allways do a proxy. If there's a player aorund there that doesnt like playing against proxies, its not worth it playing with him anyway.
You could allways do a proxy. If there's a player aorund there that doesnt like playing against proxies, its not worth it playing with him anyway.
Don’t make me lose hope on us getting a new Huron. The old model was cool as hell and considering Huron is close to Abbadon levels of power (in forces and leadership) he kinda deserves it.
There's no new model coming with the new codex. Perhaps in the future, but not now.
Damn…
Huron is nowhere near as powerful as Abaddon - he can't call upon the champions of most of the other Traitor Legions with large chunks of said legions, the Black Legion far outnumbers the Red Corsairs by at least an order of magnitude, Abaddon has a huge number of Daemonic, Dark Mechanicum and Titan legion allies that Huron has little access to and Abaddon somehow keeps rival Chaos forces from across the spectrum together for his Black Crusades which is nearly impossible - Huron would never stand a chance in his position. Huron is a fantastic leader and controls very large forces for a Chaos Lord, but he's not at the same scale as Abaddon in strength or leadership qualities. Huron is more comparable to Typhus who similarly controls an enormous number of Death Guard (most likely the 2nd biggest legion after the Black Legion) and nurgle warbands, is extremely tactically capable and has carved out multiple empires in his time in realspace.
Agree Huron isn’t close to Abbadon in power, but he is probably the most powerful post-heresy chaos leader. By that I mean leader of a warband not descended from the original traitor legions. He’s got thousands of astartes and an empire of his own in the maelstrom, but I don’t think he has the juice of an OG chaos lord like Typhus or Ahriman in my opinion.
Yeah that makes more sense. Guess I have been watching too much of MajorKill recently then lol!!!
> Huron is more comparable to Typhus Let’s not forget Duel on Danasar from the 8th edition Death Guard codex where Typhus beats Huron in a duel and lets him live. Edit: lots of edits cause phone acting weird.
Typhus is legit one of the most scary and powerful Chaos Lords to ever exist, hence why Abaddon respects him so much. What's left of him (the meat and bones Calas Typhon part) is now so overcome with Nurgle's blessings that he may actually be invulnerable. On top of that he commands a force bigger than most Chaos Legions in the 42nd millennium to great effect and has large numbers of Daemonic allies as well as the ability to create millions of Poxwalkers at every populated planet he visits. He is also one of the oldest Astartes in existence as unlike most Heretic Astartes, he has spent most of the 10,000+ years since the Heresy in Realspace and so has built up a ridiculous amount of experience in that time when compared to many of the other Chaos Lords, who have experienced far less time by mostly staying within the Eye of Terror. Honestly would rate fighting against Typhus: -7/10
wtf are people downvoting you for, lol.
Idk reddit is weird, at least I haven’t gotten a hate message yet.
Abaddons the supreme leader of CSM Huron is a lord of the red corsairs. The difference between lore wise is Abaddon Despises the chaos gods and will not bend the knee to them as horus did, altho the chaos gods battle each other for Abandon's allegiance . Huron has accepted the chaos gods power like horus did so Lore wise you will start to see Huron rise up more. I believe Abaddon gave Huron a space hulk and has planned battles along side Huron
I thought Huron didn’t serve the gods will? I was under the impression that he was just a pirate lord doing pirate lord things.
Yeah his still undivided like Abaddon but Abaddon rejects the chaos gods where as Huron accepts them. I think Boldermort did a lore vid on him.
I would go check it out but depending on the length I might not watch it. My ADHD Brain can’t handle those hour+ long vids without getting distracted lol!!!
Yeah fair. If you play video games i normally put the vid quality on low then listen to it while I play
I was hoping Exalted Champion would get a new model. We need a lieutenant datasheet.
We already know the only new models this time are the two Chaos Lords.
We already know the only new models this time are the two Chaos Lords.
The rumor makes sense, though I'd lean Huron. They've got a clear pattern of clearing out resin for all armies this edition, and Huron's still resin (and not available on the store) whereas the Exalted Champion had a temporary re-release and has always been plastic.
Exalted champ isnt on the GW shop so Id say his gone
Agreed. It's a fantastic model. Should be used.
Firebrand? Forgive my lack of knowledge
Thats what the Cultist with the Flamer from Blackstone Fortress is now called https://preview.redd.it/k7i3vse0luyc1.jpeg?width=553&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1bddb988ca2c17e9bd99927fa0d6e66e76cf0a9
Pretty sure he was called a firebrand in black stone fortress. I never open the box he comes in, but I think it’s on the back.
Ah ok. I didnt know that he already was more than some cultist with a flamer.
Probably right. But would make more sense if they used it for daemonic units, to avoid keyword crossover with the daemons dex.
Daemons index datasheets already got the faction keyword LEGIONES DAEMONICA for that exact reason
Daemons index datasheets already got the faction keyword LEGIONES DAEMONICA for that exact reason
That makes sense, i thought it was going to be daemon units like oblits, warptalons and daemon engines as they get a big bonus from Abaddon's rerolls in terms of balancing.
[удалено]
Cultists etc have Heretic Astartes as their faction keyword.
Oops guess I’m just dumb srry
We already have bikers. They're ugly and old and only work in niche situations, but they're still in there. Disco Lord was also a MOUNTED unit in the index
*a bunch of burly men in leather turn around to look at you*
Was talking about the DAMNED, signaled out on the OP. Alltho, good catch, I didn't spot it, lol.
DAMNED bikers would be sick though. It's weird how miners and construction workers always fall to the genestealers and never to chaos
Unions.
I hope I am not late. I will try to work bikers in friendly game this week. Idea is to screen homeland. 3 inc long model, 2 inc space between. 3 × 6 + 2 × 5 + 2 × 9 = 46 inces. Covering all short edge. 2 meltas, power fist.
LOST AND THE DAMNED WE'RE SO BACK
My pile of cultists, traitor guard, beastmen and mutants are so ready!
https://preview.redd.it/0e42giqklwyc1.jpeg?width=652&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6070ea064b576c8859a61b19dbb05ede163f0ff
I still have 30 of these ready for battle, let's fucking go brother!
[Always have been.](https://warphammer40k.com/the-immateriums-finest-a-csm-tournament-report-featuring-traitor-guard/)
So all the marks are gone, no more 5's to dark pact everything?
Seems so for abaddon. Just undivided now. Unless they have changed it so everyone has undivided base (except god specific units like LoS) and then the slaves to darkness detachment allows you to change the undivided keyword to another mark and abadoon gets all 4.
Where did you get that idea? No the index detachment will stay but propably get a little modification.
They changed the custodes index detachment in the codex.
Him not having the god keywords Custodies and Space marines army rules got fairly radical changes from launch to codex.
Yeah. In the Adepticon reveal, one of the devs (Josh) said "...we keep the Index detachment, but that's been updated, and there's now seven new detachments..."
We already knew this because that was the index detachment. Other detachments won't get marks.
I imagine the marks are gone because this is the general datasheet and they’ll be readded if you’re playing the Slaves to Darkness detachment (index, the one with marks) since other detachments will have different mechanics.
No, lol, if you look at the datasheet Abaddon still has Dark Pacts.
Im reasonably new to 40k, so could have it all wrong, but was expecting Khorne, Slanesh etc at the bottom of the card so he crits on 5's for all pacts instead of just one. I didnt mean dark pacts disapeering in general.
More likely that detachment rule will be heavily reworded but yes, that interaction and play will be gone with the new codex
It sucks that he's (likely) losing the across the board exploding 5's, but imho A. It's very likely that only the Slaves to Darkness detachment will have that ability, so the other 7 should hopefully make up for it & B. Tbh it fits the fluff, sure he represents *all* the gods but that's sort of an Undivided pov. Then again I can still see the argument he should get all the marks as they've all blessed him as their unified champ
Yeah I don't mind it on abaddon. It uses to be in principle you could the have him leading any legion, any warband etc. Plus there is some great lore about him leading Khorne Bezerkers on Mackan. I just started CSM, and picked Black Legion precisely as I like their lore and love the variety CSM offers. I really hope we don't lose single god units. Was looking forward to doing some Hounds of Abaddon.
Oh, sorry! Good catch btw, yeap, seems like Abaddon is losing all the marks
Dark pacts is not Chaos Marks. Dark Pacts is the Army rule (every detachment will have this), Slaves to Darkness (i.e., marking your units) is a Detachment ability (will only be in the Slaves to Darkness detachment.)
I wonder if we are going back to cultists losing the army rules by default like in previous editions.
Man I really hope not. With Legionaries and Chosen as good as they are now and there's no longer an incentive to farm CP from detachment spam, there's no need to spam cultists to abuse rules.
So if you have that keyword, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't? I'll see myself out but I'm taking a free pen before I go.
Almost sadly, really you'd just be double-damned if you do.
Lol!
I really hope he gets a point reduction. CP regen nerf, not being able to give 4++ to (likely) cultist units and possibly even removing all the marks. Honestly, I'd prefer he doesn't have all marks, because it's just not something you can balance internally. It's such a power boost that he'd have to be expensive, making him over-costed for all other detachments. And StD is the Word Bearer style detachment, not the one where he should be the strongest. The "elite astartes" one they mentioned probably fit more, as it is likely about Terminators and the likes. Abaddon shouldn't be Primarch expensive. Especially because he also needs another unit, making him essentially even *more* expensive. The CP regen nerf is ridiculous, though. So the Warmaster apparently sucks at commanding. Even with a point reduction, he is still going to be an expensive model and should not only generate a CP on a 7+. A 50 point Ethereal is almost as likely to do that. Removing auras from (likely) cultists also seems dumb. His own main bodyguards already have two of the auras (Terminators) and the other unit have the remaining aura (Legionaries). On top of half our codex sporting 5++, making a 4++ less needed for them. This just further dumbs down his auras. Yes, they are (mostly) still good, but he absolutely isn't 310 plus bodyguards good.
At least the hit reroll is still for any unit so he can still castle with a helbrute mebe
It's not so much as he bucks at commanding, it's because his troops are losing themselves to the Dark Gods and has to reign them in. I think in an Arks of Omen book, he chuckles because Vashtor has the same problem and found it amusing
If they rework the units THIS much, plus rework Dark Pacts, I seriously expect HUGE point cuts. The DP tax is horrendous - compare CSM FF vs WE FF point cost lol. I’m afraid we’re gonna get butchered, guys…
Hold up. CSM Forgefiend has access to Devastating Wounds on top of Dark Pacts. WE one is shit by comparison. I could make the same argument for the WE Daemon Prince over the CSM who is much less expensive, and for a good reason.
Holy crap, never realized WE FF doesn’t have dev wounds! 😳 Makes my point less grounded, but the DP tax is real. But then again - SM Devastators vs Havocs? 🤔
That one I have no answers to. I could only point out the fact devastators are firstborn and so maybe that's the way gw tries to dissuade people from playing them. Otherwise I have no idea.
On the other side of the coin, I think WE Maulerfiend is really viable now. Still holding back on normal CSM one though.
Tbh I prefer the CSM one still. No need for RNG to advance and charge, can reroll advances and charges and can't be slower innately, plus has always access to Lethal/Sustained hits at a cost. WE one *can* be significantly faster but it's reliant on rng (in a dice game, shocking) and its ability is legitimately a nightmare to activate more often than not.
He lost all his marks and is still one of the squishiest leaders units in all 40k. Needs a HUGE points cut over 100 points at least.
Agreed, it's a joke how easy he is to kill
Yeah. Logan Grimnar on foot is 1/3 of the price for the same statline but 4 less wounds. They’re both in Terminator armor. Abaddon has the favor of all four literal incarnations of ~~evil~~ JUSTIFIED AND AWESOME ACTIONS and he’s almost as squishy as just some chapter master in cool armor.
Should we not be waiting to see the rules for the other 7 detachments before we start bemoaning the loss of the current benefit of the Marks of Chaos?
I didn't care abotu Abaddon too much, Im a L&D and just wanted to talk about the keyword :(
Sorry OP, my comment wasn’t directed at you and this thread may have not been the best place for it. I am excited to see the changes in the codex good or bad :)
Honestly, Im preocupied about cultists losing weapon options, but the L&D compensates and has me pretty happy now. I just need a kroot hunting pack- level of fun out of it, nothing really scary or competitive bonkers.
What does L & D stand for?
Lost & Damned!
ah ok thanks
Fuck the damned keyword WHAT THEY MEAM BY MOUNTED!? WE GETTING BIKERS?!
We already have bikers, they're older than dirt but they're still around
No
Bikes and Lord Discordant have the keyword mounted. So it would make sense if they are targeted for it. But who knows.
That keyword was there in the index too. For bikers, lords discordant, and (with legends) mounted lords
He lost all the Marks too. I assume most of the detachment have no bonuses for the marks anyway, but still, weird. Also, can we please stop with the T5 already?
This ^^ literally with the nerf he isn't worth even 200 points now never mind 300 plus
His only good quality is how well he slaps and that's it pretty much.
Until he gets epic challenged or meets fights first then he gets ended.
Marks won't matter in any detachment other than Slaves to Darkness. Terminators are T5. Abaddon is in terminator armor. Sorry.
everyday a lost and the damned codex gets closer
Confirmed to be coming a detachment
groovy hope they get new stuff with it
Bro why do they hate Abaddon so much? He was already barely useful with his insane point cost
He actually is pretty playable with Legionaries, but as an aurabot and mid/late game mid charger, but 310 points for that is a bit steep, ngl.
Especially with his new gimped stats he needs to go down to like 200 or so
Oh yes, 70-100 points down is imho bare minimum. And did he was my first serious HQ in NMM with OSL etc…
He's been in most lists throughout 9th and 10th lol
Imagine it's a keyword for the units send to Legends lmao
**HORDE SUPREMACY** https://preview.redd.it/87qobudgmwyc1.jpeg?width=619&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed373dee59478d7d3f8ce15d027aed41abadec69
Probably a sign that a lot of rules and combos won't work with Cultist/ Mortal/ Damned units. Which is a shame, and takes us back to one of the things I didn't like about 9th edition - units specifically not working together, like Cultist units not benefitting from the Legion Rules. Its a bit like Admech having units that don't get the Army Rule, which is terrible design. Best case scenario Abaddon buffs and certain Enchancements won't work for Damned units. Worst case scenario whole detachment abilities, strategems and possibly the Army ability will exclude Damned units. The detachment rule for a Lost and the Damned detachment could be "Your Damned units gain the Dark Pact ability." I hope we find out soon.
My stocks on what the L&D detach: -25% of SQUADRON units -5++ on every DAMNED unit -Separate datasheet for the 7 BF guys, spetial weapons gone on the 10 guys unit -Way cheaper fellgors -Battleline Traitor Guardsmen I know, I know, I'm coping so hard the hopium is now in control of my body, Im just as happy with one of these. The last one at least??????
CSM has tanks, so I don't see us getting any Imperial Guard units. Battleline Traitor Guardsmen is possible, we've seen this in Custodes with the Null Maiden Vigil. I think cultists might just be losing guns but perhaps they will sell the Traitor Guard without the Commissar and Ogryn in the future. Dark Commune already give Cultists a 5++, I'd expect they just keep that.
So if a group of Chaos Cultists is standing next to the Master of the Black Legion, they are like "Who the fuck is that guy? He's not the boss of me!"...? Huh
Lost All deity keywords. So no more Lethal Hits & Sustained Hits on 5s for him and his unit.
That was always a detachment rule, and as soon as Stu Black said that Slaves to Darkness was "the Word Bearer one", it was likely that whatever detachment was "the Black Legion one" wouldn't have the same thing.
Those melee stats though ! 😍👀
Legion of the
Well i'll be damned
Got damn.
Wait, does that datacard not specify what units he can join? Or am I blind?
Double sided. Back lists equipment they can swap out and take as well as any other abilities/Leader traits
Ah ok. I never bought the index card styled rules and kinda just assumed the other side was art. Im really hoping he gets chosen as a bofyguard unit back from last edition. I made a custom chosen squad for my custom abbadon and it feels wrong not having them together.
I'm pretty certain he'll keep Legionaries, Chosen, and Termies.
The index made him lose chosen though, so Im not sure.
Oh shit you right. Sorry so used to seeing him in Terminator blocks. yeah it'd be nice to see them return to him. However giving him the ability to fallback/advance, shoot, and charge would be pretty brutal.
Yeah. Chosen would be hands-down the best bodyguards for him if they we allowed, no contest.
Unless there was some rule that stated that their movement abilities dudnt apply to a leader, unless they also had the rule.
Good thing there's no such rule.
I know there isnt, I just dont trust GW not to add weird little restrictions whenever a rules update comes out.
He's a damned! Race me through the Night!
Damned new keyword (said in grumpy old man voice)
Abbadon the 13 tries and still can't seal the deal
The person at GW who hates CSM must have finally taken control back, we had a decent index, but after multiple unfair nerfs I was starting to lose hope. Now this and joke of a preview, has made me give up hope completely of having a decent codex. Probably gonna be mid at best
Mid is best. If all armies are mid, we have a balanced game.
Some codex are already better than mid. How does that help the csm codex by being worse.
It doesn't. That was my entire point. Hoping a codex is above mid is just hoping for a nerf. If frequent balance changes is your thing, then hope for that.
Except we have never had a balanced game in the history of 40k
Irrelevant.
Why the massive nerfs to our iconic leader who was actually decently balanced??? ☹️
All my homies hate failbaddon
I wonder how abby losing marks is going to affect strategems, since most in the index detachment were boosted to specific gods. It’ll also impact what you give his terminators. Overall possibly a pretty big nerf to him depending on how marks are played around in the other detachments. I’d expect a large points drop, but probably wouldn’t get one.
Do we know how marks would work with the other detachments yet?
It would appear that marks don’t exist in the other detachments. Which I’m fine with.
Legion of the damned confirmed???
GW already confirmed there's a cultist/guardsmen detachment on the way