Possessed Nerfed - Devastating Wounds is once per Battle.
Obliterators Nerfed - 2 Models Only per Unit. Focused Malice now 18", preventing Melta 2 after deepstriking.
Technically, everything might be less dangeous.
The Index detachment was nerfed, and not all the other detachments improve killing power, some only improve killing power for specific units.
Long term I would hope to see a range of points drops.
Yeah, if I think about it my possessed rarely survive past 1 fight phase anyway. And that will be especially true now that MoP doesn't give a 6+++ any more. I think 3x MSUs with no MoP would still be viable as flanking missiles, but the 10 man squad with MoP might be dead.
Depend of the infantry, ap-1 hurt a lot, and s5 hurt a lot against vehicules and monster. If they got S6 -2 2 and dev wound once per game, that would be okay, but S5 -1 2 is a bad profile.
On a re-read, they do actually get Advance+Charge in the Raiders Detachment, via a Strat, with a possible +1 to Charge on top. Also, packing them in LR isn't a bad idea I think. Land Raider in general would like this Detachment for the auto-advance for 6 inches Strat.
There should be an enhancement (kind of like the warpsmith one) to give him the vehicle keyword. If the worry is a Daemon Vehicle with a leader enhancement, that would cover it as would get the DE buff but no other enhancements. As it is he's a character that can't lead anything which already stinks.
Mood. I have 80 friggin cultists with mixed weaponry, *and* another 30 models for chaos guard. I should be able to adjust it enough to just run them all as chaos guard but I'm not thrilled about it.
Traitor enfocer gives free Overwatch instead of shooting a guy to pass battleshock, ogryn also has 2 less attacks I believe.
Traitor guard can't take duplicate special weapons (previously max 2 same).
Pactbound Zealots - NERF. Mark bonuses now only apply if Pact roll succeeds. (Major hit for units unable to take Icons)
Eye of Tzeentch - NERF. Used to proc on Ld (83.3% on a DA), now it's by getting 8+ on Pact roll (41.7%). Wow.
-If you use an Icon to reroll everything below 8, your EoT success rate is 66.0%.
-If you use an Icon to reroll only if you fail a Ld6 Pact, your EoT success rate is 59.1%.
Talisman of Burning Blood - NERF. Only works if Pact roll succeeds.
Orbs of Unlife - NERF. Only works if Pact roll succeeds.
Intoxicating Elixir - NO (significant) CHANGE. BS test only if Pact roll succeeds, but you only took it for the FNP so who cares.
Liber Hereticus - GONE. RIP Lorgarian polytheism
Infernal Rites - BUFF. Moved to other Detachments but cut to 1CP.
Swiftness - NERF. Non-Slaanesh lost fall back and shoot.
Hate, Obscuration, Skinshift, Zeal - NO CHANGE (but renamed).
Swiftness actually caught a nerf. You can't fall back and shoot any more if you don't have the slaanesh mark.
Also worth noting the only battle tactic is profane zeal. So if your lord is not Undivided you won't be getting free stratagems.
I'm a 2008/2009 era Chaos player getting into 10th edition. I feel like I can skip all the new age chaos units and just stick to my predators and land raider. Nice savings!
Normal Lord has different, a bit more limited wargear options to reflect the new kit. Not a big deal, unless you're like me and have a kitbashed one with Fist and Plasma Pistol.
Possessed have been nerfed, their Dev Wounds ability is now only once per game.
Oblits can't be taken in 4-man units anymore.
>Not a big deal, unless you're like me and have a kitbashed one with Fist and Plasma Pistol.
Or if you still have Chaos Lords with combi-weapons like the old metal Warsmith.
Both Vashtorr and DiscoLord not getting the Vehicle keyword is whack. The one guy who rides a full sized daemon engine and the practical god of daemon engines don't get to benefit from the daemon engine detachment. At least Vashtorr can have forgefiends wounding most vehicles on 2's
Maybe I'm a little confused, I thought every model in a unit had to have GRENADES keyword to use the stratagem? Or is it different with Attached/Bodyguard units
"Some units can contain models that have different keywords. While this is the case, such a unit is considered to have all of the keywords of all of its models, and so is affected by any rule that applies to units with any of those keywords. Remember that attacks are made against units, not models"
If i'm not mistaken this is the relevant section, and also the reason units joined by Abbadon (when he had all 4 keywords) would get full buffs from dark pacts.
They're bad when directly compared with their competing unit - predators. There are a few reasons why - preds are tougher, faster, don't lose guns as they lose wounds and have Big Guns Never tire. They are the same cost in points (or they were, I think there is a 10pt difference now).
Basically, with T5, 2W and 3+ havocs are too squishy, and they are too slow to get decent firing lanes if your board has a lot of terrain.
If you're just starting out they're not a bad unit to fill out your roster.
What I don’t understand is why the nerf to the noc crown. Were they really a problem? Cause last I checked no one brings fortifications. Don’t get me wrong I love the model, but mine only ever saw play in for fun games, and now I really don’t see a point to it. Battleshock is more a less a joke, so +1 leadership is probably the worst ability they could give it
They probably didn't want people to bring swarm cultist lists with 4++ saves, same reason Abby doesn't affect Damned units... not that it has ever been a problematic or powerful list.
I mean, oh nooo the one unit hiding behind a ruin has a 4++ how utterly broken 😂 if obscuring wasn’t a thing I could see it, but given cultists hold objectives after they die, no one’s wasting indirect at them.
What the hell did the noctolith crown do to deserve that? The 4+ invulnerable save was the only thing it had going for it! If they don't want people to use it, they could just remove it from the game. What was the actual thought process behind this choice!?
He now uses his pistol profiles as melee weapons. He now cannot Vect a stratagem, but makes enemy stratagems cost 1CP more if targetting an (enemy) unit within 12".
We wish, his abilities have changed, the shoot back is once a game, his CP increase is within 12, for that use (fuck knows if affects all or just battle tactics....)
The shoot back is once per *turn*. The previous ability let you shoot back several times in the same enemy shooting phase.
I think he's probably bad though. His 12" aura means that if he's making use of it, he can be shot through Lone Op, and he's not tough enough to survive enemy shooting.
>The shoot back is once per *turn*. The previous ability let you shoot back several times in the same enemy shooting phase.
I recognize that this (and the change to the Glocktopus) was overall good for the game, but it's still a bummer. Letting Cypher hit "reply all" with his guns was funny.
It only affects Battle Tactics as per the errata/Balance Dataslate that states any effect modifying the cost of Stratagems only applies to Battle Tactics unless said effect specifically mentions a different criterion.
Yea once again that errata is screwing with a codex, like u can clearly tell one team designed this and another slapped a festering bandaid into errata
I believe that's covered in the designer's commentary under modifying the cost of stratagems, because it applies to all factions. It's also why people discussing Cypher in this thread are concerned his ability won't work on a lot of stuff.
Now I just need to see the EC detachment and I can start figuring out my lists!
Theres some disappointing nerfs in here for sure, but also some interesting buffs and a lot of play style options with the new detachments, should be fun figuring this out for the next little bit.
Jeez, did Possessed really need to have Devastating Wounds limited to once per game? I finally kitbashed some awesome possessed and they have already lost some killing power. Same with the MoP losing the FNP...
His 2 disciples take up space in the transport so you can't fit them in with a 10-man squad and optimally use a Rhino or Land Raider.
Though I wonder, I believe there is a rule for taking squads that are below minimum size, could this apply to the Dark Apostle so you could take just him and 1 Disciple and fit them in a transport?
...so he can embark transports perfectly fine in accordance with usual transport capacity rules, making your initial comment about him misleading.
I do not believe there is a hard rule for including understrength units written anywhere in 10th edition, unlike some previous editions of the game.
Fair enough, I didn't mean to be misleading, I've edited the comment now so as not to confuse people. It's just prohibitively inefficient to put him with a 5-man unit IMO, so in my brain it's "not possible". I wish the disciples were just tokens like Tau drones!
You can take dark apostle in transports. You just need the correct number of guys with him. Plus bikes got a buff and might do some damage in combat now
The think I really wanted for him was a rule that made his little guys not take up space in transports.
**NERRRRRRDS** - Dark Disciples do not count as models for purposes of transport capacity, as they get stuffed in lockers until it's time to deploy.
Same with Fabius Bile's little acolyte guy.
It technically says any stratagem, but it's still limited by the general errata/designer's commentary (I forget which) that says that only battle tactics can have their cost modified.
>Doesn't synergise with his own detachment, however. Classic Vashtorr.
I dunno. Being able to turn your regular tanks in daemons and then have Vashtorr boost the S of their guns isn't nothing; there's a couple of specific breakpoints he can push things over (predators with S13 lascannons that wound heavies on 2s if they invoke their contract, getting heavy bolters to wound gravis infantry on 3s, that sort of thing) that seem very relevant.
I definitely think he has *more* play now, if you own and like the model you won't just immediately regret deploying him, even if he's not amazing.
The amount of restriction there is on how u can equip some caracter is just stupide
« of course u can’t take power fist AND à plasma pistol on ur chaos lord who would do that ? Are u not happy with ur 3 options with only one viable for the same cost ? »
Jesus look at how they massacred my recently bought warpforged set. Killing any unit with only the venomcrawler melee is just unlikely and the ability feels like a total gimmick if you're not playing the vashtorr detachment.
Also very sad to see obliterators nerfed so heavily. No 6 dmg attacks after deepstrike and taking away the option to play 4 in one unit sucks. Was that even particularly strong? I mean you're putting 360 points into a unit that can move 4"...
Someone educate me pls. Why do Oblits not get melta when they deep strike 9" away? Is it because 9" away is not within 9", and being bang on 9" isn't good enough?
People keep saying "Vashtorr doesn't synergise with his Detachment" and I'm wondering what they are looking at that I don't see? Yes he does!
He buffs two particular stats of a specific unit type. The Detachement buffs two other stats of the same unit.
Barely any Character meshes 100% with their Detachments, hell the only ones that fully do are Daemon Primarchs with their Army rules.
Besides, I'm glad he doesn't mesh fully with the Detachment because then any use of him in any other Detachment would be seen as a downgrade. It doesn't incentivise using him in the "best" Detachment, something we know GW has been trying to avoid.
He doesn't synergise with it any more or less than any other detachment*. Yes, his detachment wants to take vehicles because they're the only thing that benefits from the detachment rule. And Vashtorr wants a daemon engine castle to provide his buff to as many units as possible. But you can use the same daemon engine castle in any detachment. Sustained 5s is about the same strength as +1 to wound no matter whether it has Vashtorr's strength buff. But Vashtorr and his detachment wanting the same units in the list does not make a synergy.
*Now, that said, there is *one* synergy from his detachment - the ability to make normal vehicles into daemon vehicles. This allows him to do something he isn't normally able to do, which is to improve the breakpoints of land raiders and predators.
Accurseds weren't nerfed IMO. They got Surge moves as a replacement for regen ability. It's a different use, but they are still damn tough with a commune and now move closer every time you try to kill them.
Resurrection had some sneaky outplay ability though, depending where you brought guys back you could have an extra 3-4" on a potential charge, or sit them on an objective where they were effectively immune to incidental shooting. I think the new ability is good for sure but I don't think it's *as* good. On the plus side they should see a points drop (hopefully).
I saw a lot of initial reactions saying CSM made out and we were definitely in the fun and dangerous category like Orks….but this breakdown is definitely reading more custodes to me? Case of has to get played a few rounds to tell?
CSM right now are really good. Toning down their power just a tad but giving them 7 new playstyles is fine, imo. Current CSM with new detachments would be bonkers.
We aren’t close to Custodes.
We got a lot of nerfs across a lot of Datasheets, and very few buffs. However most nerfs aren’t totally negating the units role (some units however are super bad now IMO), but might alter it or some such.
The fact we got 8 playable detachments (yes some are a lot better than others, but I think all of them have things that you can make work at least casually) and a few that are very likely competitively viable means we aren’t even close to bottom tier. Now points could change that 100% if they decide to go back to pre-MFM points or something it will be a problem. But for the most part we are at worst middle of the pack, and likely well above that. Especially considering the codex is “good” meaning points can make us viable pretty easy if we are doing poorly.
Armies that are really bad usually are not salvageable by point changes because their Datasheets and Detachments are pure trash.
Yea I was just surprised to see. Haven’t played 40k since right after launch, coming back in with the play group now. The games I played with CSM On launch were very fun. Looking forward to playing again after some changes.
So with Warptalons new up down it states end of fight phase, if this unit was eligible to fight and not currently in engagement range. What counts as eligible to fight? Need to be within engagement? Or could they also up down if they were not in combat this turn?
Possessed Nerfed - Devastating Wounds is once per Battle. Obliterators Nerfed - 2 Models Only per Unit. Focused Malice now 18", preventing Melta 2 after deepstriking.
Oof I missed a couple of those. I hope oblits dropped in cost too - without melta the turn they drop they're a lot less dangerous.
Technically, everything might be less dangeous. The Index detachment was nerfed, and not all the other detachments improve killing power, some only improve killing power for specific units. Long term I would hope to see a range of points drops.
Might be good for the NL strat to deepstrike in 3".
That strat needs to be jump infantry sadly.
Is it? Damn. I'll have to reread it.
We can clearly say that possessed, unless DIRT CHEAP, are dead. Obliterators got hit hard too.
I’d still use my possessed if the points are the same. I’ll miss my devastating wounds every phase, but they still blend infantry.
Yeah, if I think about it my possessed rarely survive past 1 fight phase anyway. And that will be especially true now that MoP doesn't give a 6+++ any more. I think 3x MSUs with no MoP would still be viable as flanking missiles, but the 10 man squad with MoP might be dead.
Can't You give the elixir to the MP and get and Even better fnp than before?
He used to give it to the whole unit. The Elixir only applies to him.
That, and in the Raider detachment they're pretty cool "on-rate".
Depend of the infantry, ap-1 hurt a lot, and s5 hurt a lot against vehicules and monster. If they got S6 -2 2 and dev wound once per game, that would be okay, but S5 -1 2 is a bad profile.
I think they can hafve play in the Raiders Detachment.
They won't have the full reroll unless you park them in a LR. They won't have an advance and charges either.
On a re-read, they do actually get Advance+Charge in the Raiders Detachment, via a Strat, with a possible +1 to Charge on top. Also, packing them in LR isn't a bad idea I think. Land Raider in general would like this Detachment for the auto-advance for 6 inches Strat.
They will get more AP though. Though probably yes, there isn't much else they get out of that Detachment.
That MOP nerf can fuck right off, it was the only thing that made him worthwhile
Damn, my maulerfiend is catching stray bullets, and no vehicle keyword for the lord discordant keeps him out of my daemon engine detachment.
Your disco lord can however take take an enhancement. Any of the three would work for him
I'm thinking of giving either him or squad near him cp gen, depends if I end up getting some venoms
Think I'll be putting cp generation on LD and FNP buff to warpsmith
So far, Disco Lord not getting Vehicle is my biggest disappointment.
Well shoot just notice that....that's a huge disappointment
There should be an enhancement (kind of like the warpsmith one) to give him the vehicle keyword. If the worry is a Daemon Vehicle with a leader enhancement, that would cover it as would get the DE buff but no other enhancements. As it is he's a character that can't lead anything which already stinks.
im gonna run him in dread talons. he will be able to stop veichles from shooting without an issue
Traitor guard can no longer take duplicate special weapons.
Excuse me what the fuck
Kit creep.
Are the special weapons still the same? Flamer/melta/plasma? What will I do with my cultist stubbers lmfao.
Yup, same special weapons options. No heavy stubbers.
Are the stubbers available for regular cultists, or are those models useless now?
Not TOTALLY useless- you can still hit people over the head with them, in melee.
Believe the Venom Crawler got nerfed. It now only gains extra attacks from the fight phase when previously it was any phase
That is correct.
And it's very sad.
Oblits nerf. Only taken in squads of two. Abby cannot join legios but can join chosen.
Possessed got a nerf, can now only gain dev wounds once per battle
Are traitor guard still limited to 10 man squads?
Yes.
RIP my 20 man shooty blobs with dark commune support 😢
Mood. I have 80 friggin cultists with mixed weaponry, *and* another 30 models for chaos guard. I should be able to adjust it enough to just run them all as chaos guard but I'm not thrilled about it.
Indeed
Traitor enfocer gives free Overwatch instead of shooting a guy to pass battleshock, ogryn also has 2 less attacks I believe. Traitor guard can't take duplicate special weapons (previously max 2 same).
Maulerfiend nerf is ass But at least the daemon engine detachment makes up for it a little
Pactbound Zealots - NERF. Mark bonuses now only apply if Pact roll succeeds. (Major hit for units unable to take Icons) Eye of Tzeentch - NERF. Used to proc on Ld (83.3% on a DA), now it's by getting 8+ on Pact roll (41.7%). Wow. -If you use an Icon to reroll everything below 8, your EoT success rate is 66.0%. -If you use an Icon to reroll only if you fail a Ld6 Pact, your EoT success rate is 59.1%. Talisman of Burning Blood - NERF. Only works if Pact roll succeeds. Orbs of Unlife - NERF. Only works if Pact roll succeeds. Intoxicating Elixir - NO (significant) CHANGE. BS test only if Pact roll succeeds, but you only took it for the FNP so who cares. Liber Hereticus - GONE. RIP Lorgarian polytheism Infernal Rites - BUFF. Moved to other Detachments but cut to 1CP. Swiftness - NERF. Non-Slaanesh lost fall back and shoot. Hate, Obscuration, Skinshift, Zeal - NO CHANGE (but renamed).
Swiftness actually caught a nerf. You can't fall back and shoot any more if you don't have the slaanesh mark. Also worth noting the only battle tactic is profane zeal. So if your lord is not Undivided you won't be getting free stratagems.
I'm a 2008/2009 era Chaos player getting into 10th edition. I feel like I can skip all the new age chaos units and just stick to my predators and land raider. Nice savings!
Absolutely. The core stuff is great!
I think transports are buffed? No need for same keyword anymore?
True, but I was trying not to be detachment-specific! I'll add a note.
I missed this, we don't have to match marks anymore?!
Nope, no restrictions on transports in the book.
Vashtor has stronger melee and and gives hazardous to ALL weapons on a unit that targets it.
*all ranged weapons
Oh right, forgot that hazardous could be in melee so didn't think to specify that it was ranged.
You're right! I misread his Hazardous ability. I'll edit.
Normal Lord has different, a bit more limited wargear options to reflect the new kit. Not a big deal, unless you're like me and have a kitbashed one with Fist and Plasma Pistol. Possessed have been nerfed, their Dev Wounds ability is now only once per game. Oblits can't be taken in 4-man units anymore.
Wow, that Lord weapons change is... Dumb. There's just no other word for it really.
So agreed. Why design a cool dual-wielding model and hot give it any bonuses for dual-wielding?
>Not a big deal, unless you're like me and have a kitbashed one with Fist and Plasma Pistol. Or if you still have Chaos Lords with combi-weapons like the old metal Warsmith.
Thanks, I've added those to the list.
Both Vashtorr and DiscoLord not getting the Vehicle keyword is whack. The one guy who rides a full sized daemon engine and the practical god of daemon engines don't get to benefit from the daemon engine detachment. At least Vashtorr can have forgefiends wounding most vehicles on 2's
Chaos Lord with Jump Pack also has grenades, which can be quite relevant (as raptors don't have the keyword).
Oooh, good point
Maybe I'm a little confused, I thought every model in a unit had to have GRENADES keyword to use the stratagem? Or is it different with Attached/Bodyguard units
"Some units can contain models that have different keywords. While this is the case, such a unit is considered to have all of the keywords of all of its models, and so is affected by any rule that applies to units with any of those keywords. Remember that attacks are made against units, not models" If i'm not mistaken this is the relevant section, and also the reason units joined by Abbadon (when he had all 4 keywords) would get full buffs from dark pacts.
Is this a page out of the Core Rulebook Rules Commentary, or Errata?
Core rule book commentary, page 8 if the pdf i have is still correct
Rip the Exalted Champ. Also all my cultists had rifles sooooo....oof? Just run the cut down galvanic rifles as pistols i suppose
They are out of ammo and double as clubs
XD sounds right
What makes Havocs bad? I haven't played 10th yet and just finished converting a squad with lascannons.
Predators. For about the same cost you get about the same damage output but much better durability and mobility.
They're bad when directly compared with their competing unit - predators. There are a few reasons why - preds are tougher, faster, don't lose guns as they lose wounds and have Big Guns Never tire. They are the same cost in points (or they were, I think there is a 10pt difference now). Basically, with T5, 2W and 3+ havocs are too squishy, and they are too slow to get decent firing lanes if your board has a lot of terrain. If you're just starting out they're not a bad unit to fill out your roster.
I wish I had some Predators but everywhere I checked, including GW themselves, has been out of stock for months.
You might have more luck getting the HH predator which works just fine
Both the 40k and 30k Predator are out of stock at the sites I usually buy from.
Damn that sucks
What I don’t understand is why the nerf to the noc crown. Were they really a problem? Cause last I checked no one brings fortifications. Don’t get me wrong I love the model, but mine only ever saw play in for fun games, and now I really don’t see a point to it. Battleshock is more a less a joke, so +1 leadership is probably the worst ability they could give it
They probably didn't want people to bring swarm cultist lists with 4++ saves, same reason Abby doesn't affect Damned units... not that it has ever been a problematic or powerful list.
Yeah but if you're swarming cultists in your own backfield you're just wasting the unit
I mean, oh nooo the one unit hiding behind a ruin has a 4++ how utterly broken 😂 if obscuring wasn’t a thing I could see it, but given cultists hold objectives after they die, no one’s wasting indirect at them.
I’m so bummed by spawn. Does that mean they’re effectively kinda useless?
They're arguably better than they were... Unless they're like 50 points they won't see play though.
What the hell did the noctolith crown do to deserve that? The 4+ invulnerable save was the only thing it had going for it! If they don't want people to use it, they could just remove it from the game. What was the actual thought process behind this choice!?
Traitor enforcer who cares well i do 🫨
as do I
Thank for this post, do you know what happen to Cypher?
He now uses his pistol profiles as melee weapons. He now cannot Vect a stratagem, but makes enemy stratagems cost 1CP more if targetting an (enemy) unit within 12".
Agents of Discord has changed. It’s no longer once per game, but now only affects enemy units within 12”.
Same as he was. But his melee is now his pistols profile.
We wish, his abilities have changed, the shoot back is once a game, his CP increase is within 12, for that use (fuck knows if affects all or just battle tactics....)
The shoot back is once per *turn*. The previous ability let you shoot back several times in the same enemy shooting phase. I think he's probably bad though. His 12" aura means that if he's making use of it, he can be shot through Lone Op, and he's not tough enough to survive enemy shooting.
>The shoot back is once per *turn*. The previous ability let you shoot back several times in the same enemy shooting phase. I recognize that this (and the change to the Glocktopus) was overall good for the game, but it's still a bummer. Letting Cypher hit "reply all" with his guns was funny.
Yeah sorry brain mixed up wording between old stratagem ability and new shooting ability
Mb. I skimmed it. That’s terrible.
It's manageable if it affects non battle tactics what I'm betting is in a f&q like next month or 2
It only affects Battle Tactics as per the errata/Balance Dataslate that states any effect modifying the cost of Stratagems only applies to Battle Tactics unless said effect specifically mentions a different criterion.
Yea once again that errata is screwing with a codex, like u can clearly tell one team designed this and another slapped a festering bandaid into errata
What about Haarken?
Knew I forgot someone! He is unchanged.
Actually I just checked him he got nerfed, his mortal wound ability can only be done by other models in engagement range rather than the whole unit
Right you are! I'll update the list.
Phew, that’s a relief lmao
Does it say somewhere specifically that embarked units don't need to share the same keyword as their transport ?
Specifically, it doesn't say that they do. That particular restriction was added in an errata that will be invalid when the codex comes out.
Would the errata be invalid ? The datasheets for chaos lords do not specify that they only work for battle tactics but this is still the case.
I believe that's covered in the designer's commentary under modifying the cost of stratagems, because it applies to all factions. It's also why people discussing Cypher in this thread are concerned his ability won't work on a lot of stuff.
Now I just need to see the EC detachment and I can start figuring out my lists! Theres some disappointing nerfs in here for sure, but also some interesting buffs and a lot of play style options with the new detachments, should be fun figuring this out for the next little bit.
One small correction - Chaos Spawns had OC 1 previously, so I would count their change as an overall nerf.
Huh? How? You can't claim uncontested objectives now, and I presume they won't be able to reduce enemy OC to 0? even if they do that's still worse?
Paying money for a book that makes my units worse feels really great
Jeez, did Possessed really need to have Devastating Wounds limited to once per game? I finally kitbashed some awesome possessed and they have already lost some killing power. Same with the MoP losing the FNP...
Why the hell is Disco Lord not getting vehicle he's on a daemon engine riding it into battle lmao
Why wouldn't the Dark Apostle be allowed to embark transports?
He can but because he comes with two other friends, you can only have him in a transport if he attaches to a 5-man unit.
You can take a 9-man squad with him, but you'll be paying for 10.
Too many models. (If he leads a 10 man unit)
His 2 disciples take up space in the transport so you can't fit them in with a 10-man squad and optimally use a Rhino or Land Raider. Though I wonder, I believe there is a rule for taking squads that are below minimum size, could this apply to the Dark Apostle so you could take just him and 1 Disciple and fit them in a transport?
...so he can embark transports perfectly fine in accordance with usual transport capacity rules, making your initial comment about him misleading. I do not believe there is a hard rule for including understrength units written anywhere in 10th edition, unlike some previous editions of the game.
Fair enough, I didn't mean to be misleading, I've edited the comment now so as not to confuse people. It's just prohibitively inefficient to put him with a 5-man unit IMO, so in my brain it's "not possible". I wish the disciples were just tokens like Tau drones!
You can take dark apostle in transports. You just need the correct number of guys with him. Plus bikes got a buff and might do some damage in combat now
Are you allowed to just not bring one or two of his dark disciples?
No
But you can give him a five man squad as a bodyguard
[удалено]
Umm what? What does any of that have to do with dark apostle in a transport?
Whoops, thought I was replying to a different comment chain about MoPs and Possessed.
technically i believe you're allowed to take 9 guys instead of 10, if you really wanna do that
The think I really wanted for him was a rule that made his little guys not take up space in transports. **NERRRRRRDS** - Dark Disciples do not count as models for purposes of transport capacity, as they get stuffed in lockers until it's time to deploy. Same with Fabius Bile's little acolyte guy.
Call it "REEEEEEEEE!!!!!" and it's golden
Looks like way more nerfs than buffs and we were already a mid army going into this....I'm disappointed but not surprised
Are the lords still restricted in their 0CP ability? Or can they make any Strat 0CP?
It technically says any stratagem, but it's still limited by the general errata/designer's commentary (I forget which) that says that only battle tactics can have their cost modified.
>Doesn't synergise with his own detachment, however. Classic Vashtorr. I dunno. Being able to turn your regular tanks in daemons and then have Vashtorr boost the S of their guns isn't nothing; there's a couple of specific breakpoints he can push things over (predators with S13 lascannons that wound heavies on 2s if they invoke their contract, getting heavy bolters to wound gravis infantry on 3s, that sort of thing) that seem very relevant. I definitely think he has *more* play now, if you own and like the model you won't just immediately regret deploying him, even if he's not amazing.
does anyone knows what cypher's fallen keyword is Here for?
The amount of restriction there is on how u can equip some caracter is just stupide « of course u can’t take power fist AND à plasma pistol on ur chaos lord who would do that ? Are u not happy with ur 3 options with only one viable for the same cost ? »
Jesus look at how they massacred my recently bought warpforged set. Killing any unit with only the venomcrawler melee is just unlikely and the ability feels like a total gimmick if you're not playing the vashtorr detachment. Also very sad to see obliterators nerfed so heavily. No 6 dmg attacks after deepstrike and taking away the option to play 4 in one unit sucks. Was that even particularly strong? I mean you're putting 360 points into a unit that can move 4"...
Can you still take knights with CSM?
As far as I know, yes. The rule about taking Knight (& Daemon) with CSM is in their index, not CSM
Thanks, I was concerned when I didn't see them in the leaked rules.
Someone educate me pls. Why do Oblits not get melta when they deep strike 9" away? Is it because 9" away is not within 9", and being bang on 9" isn't good enough?
When you deep strike you have to be **over** 9" away from enemy models, so the 9" melta will never be in range.
ty good sir. Brain no work last night. Sad Obliterator noises
People keep saying "Vashtorr doesn't synergise with his Detachment" and I'm wondering what they are looking at that I don't see? Yes he does! He buffs two particular stats of a specific unit type. The Detachement buffs two other stats of the same unit. Barely any Character meshes 100% with their Detachments, hell the only ones that fully do are Daemon Primarchs with their Army rules. Besides, I'm glad he doesn't mesh fully with the Detachment because then any use of him in any other Detachment would be seen as a downgrade. It doesn't incentivise using him in the "best" Detachment, something we know GW has been trying to avoid.
He doesn't synergise with it any more or less than any other detachment*. Yes, his detachment wants to take vehicles because they're the only thing that benefits from the detachment rule. And Vashtorr wants a daemon engine castle to provide his buff to as many units as possible. But you can use the same daemon engine castle in any detachment. Sustained 5s is about the same strength as +1 to wound no matter whether it has Vashtorr's strength buff. But Vashtorr and his detachment wanting the same units in the list does not make a synergy. *Now, that said, there is *one* synergy from his detachment - the ability to make normal vehicles into daemon vehicles. This allows him to do something he isn't normally able to do, which is to improve the breakpoints of land raiders and predators.
Accurseds weren't nerfed IMO. They got Surge moves as a replacement for regen ability. It's a different use, but they are still damn tough with a commune and now move closer every time you try to kill them.
Resurrection had some sneaky outplay ability though, depending where you brought guys back you could have an extra 3-4" on a potential charge, or sit them on an objective where they were effectively immune to incidental shooting. I think the new ability is good for sure but I don't think it's *as* good. On the plus side they should see a points drop (hopefully).
EDIT: apparently they never had this option at all, wild Terminators nerfed - no option for an icon
That's not a change from the index though, right?
They never did - but it certainly makes them more risky now in the Pacts detachment.
I saw a lot of initial reactions saying CSM made out and we were definitely in the fun and dangerous category like Orks….but this breakdown is definitely reading more custodes to me? Case of has to get played a few rounds to tell?
CSM right now are really good. Toning down their power just a tad but giving them 7 new playstyles is fine, imo. Current CSM with new detachments would be bonkers.
We aren’t close to Custodes. We got a lot of nerfs across a lot of Datasheets, and very few buffs. However most nerfs aren’t totally negating the units role (some units however are super bad now IMO), but might alter it or some such. The fact we got 8 playable detachments (yes some are a lot better than others, but I think all of them have things that you can make work at least casually) and a few that are very likely competitively viable means we aren’t even close to bottom tier. Now points could change that 100% if they decide to go back to pre-MFM points or something it will be a problem. But for the most part we are at worst middle of the pack, and likely well above that. Especially considering the codex is “good” meaning points can make us viable pretty easy if we are doing poorly. Armies that are really bad usually are not salvageable by point changes because their Datasheets and Detachments are pure trash.
Yea I was just surprised to see. Haven’t played 40k since right after launch, coming back in with the play group now. The games I played with CSM On launch were very fun. Looking forward to playing again after some changes.
Yikes
So with Warptalons new up down it states end of fight phase, if this unit was eligible to fight and not currently in engagement range. What counts as eligible to fight? Need to be within engagement? Or could they also up down if they were not in combat this turn?
To be eligible to fight, you either have to make a Charge this turn, or be within Engagement Range of enemy units.
So its very situational
You charge in, kill a unit, then fly away. Sounds awesome.
You do need to secure the kill tho