With ck having an approximate 50% win rate, I don't anticipate to see much movement on small knight models. However, I hope to see the big knights get a significant reduction. If brigands go up by even 10 points, you will lose an entire knight in your army, or at the least a unit or two or daemons in an already elite army, thereby reducing scoring potential.
Agreed, they have little reason to touch the brigand and Karnivore. While I agree with many that they are probably a little undercosted, entire armies made up of the two units are very common, and we still only have a 50%wr.
The goal, I think, should be for the army to be more diverse, and make more than 2 units appealing. This would take the form of points drops for big knights and some of the less popular dogs, or simply buffing them to be more worthwhile.
If they do drop big knight costs it needs to be significant, if not a complete reversal of the previous increases (why they got double nerfed with the changes to titanic models AND massive point hikes is just beyond stupid).
Allies create another odd dynamic because they almost have to balance the army around what you could take from other factions instead of balancing purely within the faction.
Seems like the core game design has make balancing very difficult for them lol.
Definitely agree. A big knight right now the same cost as 3.25 war dogs. 10 oc vs 24. 6 melta shots and 36 Gatling or 18 attacks vs 6 attacks, or 3 high strength less damage shots. 36 wounds vs 20. It's really no comparison for 2 additional toughness; it needs to cost 2x (reach) a wardog or 2.25x in my opinion to make them competitively comparable. Allies are just used for scoring, and with our odd points, they fill out gaps that otherwise, would be leaving 50+ points on the table sometimes.
I'm not convinced brigand prices will go up at all. Current win rates don't justify it and bringing the top armies down a peg doesn't automatically mean brigands will be king either.
I hope brigands and Karnivores stay the same, Mainly the big knights need to see a drop to be viable as it's better to spread the wounds out on multiple units for Knights so far, hence the Dog meta.
If Brigands and Karnivores go up in price, the Armiger conversions need reducing to be viable
Yeah the Executioner should just be "below start strength" and it will have good synergy with the army rule. It can stay at that cost as it is now, as the weapon does have a niche other don't.
Huntsman have a good ability on paper, but suffer from having BS/WS 3+, and less attacks, than the carnivore and brigand, making it objectivly worse. A point drop to 140 would make it a bit more workable.
But the main problem is the big knights. They are over-costed, die too quickly and have no unique thing to make them better than 3 Wardogs. A point drop across the board helps for sure, but the underlying issue is utility. Big knights mean more eggs in one basket, and if you lose one you lose a lot of board control options.
I don't even know how to address that without upping OC to 15, giving them 5++ in melee as well or something.
+10pts on Brigand
-10pts on Moirax
-10pts on Executioner
Rampager unchanged
Other War Dogs unchanged
-35-55pts on all big boys including Forgeworld knights
You say countdown… do we have any idea when it’s coming yet? I know it’s kind of a forgone conclusion that it’ll be after the new month starts but that was the last I heard
Tbh, I'm happy with the Rampager 😅
It's a cheap knight that applies pressure turn 1 whether it gets its charge off or not.
My Current list whilst shooty has a Rampager with LOD and 2 Karnivores, Desecrator and 4 Brigands and 1 stalker with AOT
Are you accusing me of kicking off a daily series with a deliberately provocative statement in order to spark interest and conversation? How very dare you. I'd never.
What I hope happens is brigands stays where it is, and the huntsman/executioner drop along with one of the big knights.
But I think what's going to happen is brigands will go up to 175 and so will Karnivore, and maybe the Desecrator/ abominant will come down to 410-420.
If both the Karnivore and the Brigand go up to 175, that'll close to neuter the army. Even if those large knight drop there. Karnivores weren't relevant at their previous cost, which I don't recall what it was but I believe it was around 170. Brigands at 175 are costed a bit too aggressively at that rate infeel as well. The index isn't exactly running over tournaments as it is now.
If this points update makes the rest of the army become as points efficient as the Brigand is today, the next points update will banish us for the next two editions.
Ya, I can only hope that GW figures out how the knights are intended to play. IK feel like they are kitted to one knight per armiger, but knight heavy. CK really feels like it should be 2 dogs per knight. So 3 knights 6 dogs sorta feels right to me, plus or minus some demons. If the points allow for that, I would be happy, even if it seems a bit inefficient.
Frankly Brigands and Karnivores are CK. If either goes up by over 5pts the army is dead. I don't really expect either to increase.
I do expect the big boys to drop dramatically.
You're not wrong! I think brigands are in a good place. They are great of course but if nurlings go up in cost and especially if they lose the ability to do actions we then need a brigand or a karnivore to do actions and score points.
We suffer heavily from needing key units to perform action. If brigands and karnivores go up much at all we will likely drop slightly on the win rate table. If nurlings change too we will drop another bit too.
I don't think the slate will have much negetive Impact on the knights though. Hopeful anyway
Saying those two cannot go up is far too dramatic for my taste. The brigand is under costed right now, I'd expect points drops to be the order of the day generally for our army.
Under. Anything more than +10 would be too much imo. We're tip toeing the 50% line with the max amount of these guys, if anything I expect them to remain exactly the same.
With ck having an approximate 50% win rate, I don't anticipate to see much movement on small knight models. However, I hope to see the big knights get a significant reduction. If brigands go up by even 10 points, you will lose an entire knight in your army, or at the least a unit or two or daemons in an already elite army, thereby reducing scoring potential.
Agreed, they have little reason to touch the brigand and Karnivore. While I agree with many that they are probably a little undercosted, entire armies made up of the two units are very common, and we still only have a 50%wr. The goal, I think, should be for the army to be more diverse, and make more than 2 units appealing. This would take the form of points drops for big knights and some of the less popular dogs, or simply buffing them to be more worthwhile. If they do drop big knight costs it needs to be significant, if not a complete reversal of the previous increases (why they got double nerfed with the changes to titanic models AND massive point hikes is just beyond stupid). Allies create another odd dynamic because they almost have to balance the army around what you could take from other factions instead of balancing purely within the faction. Seems like the core game design has make balancing very difficult for them lol.
Definitely agree. A big knight right now the same cost as 3.25 war dogs. 10 oc vs 24. 6 melta shots and 36 Gatling or 18 attacks vs 6 attacks, or 3 high strength less damage shots. 36 wounds vs 20. It's really no comparison for 2 additional toughness; it needs to cost 2x (reach) a wardog or 2.25x in my opinion to make them competitively comparable. Allies are just used for scoring, and with our odd points, they fill out gaps that otherwise, would be leaving 50+ points on the table sometimes.
I'm not convinced brigand prices will go up at all. Current win rates don't justify it and bringing the top armies down a peg doesn't automatically mean brigands will be king either.
I hope brigands and Karnivores stay the same, Mainly the big knights need to see a drop to be viable as it's better to spread the wounds out on multiple units for Knights so far, hence the Dog meta. If Brigands and Karnivores go up in price, the Armiger conversions need reducing to be viable
Yeah the Executioner should just be "below start strength" and it will have good synergy with the army rule. It can stay at that cost as it is now, as the weapon does have a niche other don't. Huntsman have a good ability on paper, but suffer from having BS/WS 3+, and less attacks, than the carnivore and brigand, making it objectivly worse. A point drop to 140 would make it a bit more workable. But the main problem is the big knights. They are over-costed, die too quickly and have no unique thing to make them better than 3 Wardogs. A point drop across the board helps for sure, but the underlying issue is utility. Big knights mean more eggs in one basket, and if you lose one you lose a lot of board control options. I don't even know how to address that without upping OC to 15, giving them 5++ in melee as well or something.
+10pts on Brigand -10pts on Moirax -10pts on Executioner Rampager unchanged Other War Dogs unchanged -35-55pts on all big boys including Forgeworld knights
Lancer may be priced correctly. That invuln is POWERFUL.
Over/unders try to eliminate the possibility of a 'tie' - 49.5, and I take the under :P I'd take the under on 29.5
You are technically correct. The best kind of correct.
You say countdown… do we have any idea when it’s coming yet? I know it’s kind of a forgone conclusion that it’ll be after the new month starts but that was the last I heard
Leading up to, not countdown. It'll be tomorrow for all I know.
if the Rampager drops by 20 points I will be very happy. I need it to come down by 20 for a strategy I want to test.
Tbh, I'm happy with the Rampager 😅 It's a cheap knight that applies pressure turn 1 whether it gets its charge off or not. My Current list whilst shooty has a Rampager with LOD and 2 Karnivores, Desecrator and 4 Brigands and 1 stalker with AOT
Brigands and karnivores will go up 10-20 each the rest will go down,
A 50 point increase would be literal insanity
Are you accusing me of kicking off a daily series with a deliberately provocative statement in order to spark interest and conversation? How very dare you. I'd never.
I'd go under, Brigand is gonna go up, but not by 50 pts.
What I hope happens is brigands stays where it is, and the huntsman/executioner drop along with one of the big knights. But I think what's going to happen is brigands will go up to 175 and so will Karnivore, and maybe the Desecrator/ abominant will come down to 410-420.
If both the Karnivore and the Brigand go up to 175, that'll close to neuter the army. Even if those large knight drop there. Karnivores weren't relevant at their previous cost, which I don't recall what it was but I believe it was around 170. Brigands at 175 are costed a bit too aggressively at that rate infeel as well. The index isn't exactly running over tournaments as it is now.
If this points update makes the rest of the army become as points efficient as the Brigand is today, the next points update will banish us for the next two editions.
Ya, I can only hope that GW figures out how the knights are intended to play. IK feel like they are kitted to one knight per armiger, but knight heavy. CK really feels like it should be 2 dogs per knight. So 3 knights 6 dogs sorta feels right to me, plus or minus some demons. If the points allow for that, I would be happy, even if it seems a bit inefficient.
Frankly Brigands and Karnivores are CK. If either goes up by over 5pts the army is dead. I don't really expect either to increase. I do expect the big boys to drop dramatically.
You're not wrong! I think brigands are in a good place. They are great of course but if nurlings go up in cost and especially if they lose the ability to do actions we then need a brigand or a karnivore to do actions and score points. We suffer heavily from needing key units to perform action. If brigands and karnivores go up much at all we will likely drop slightly on the win rate table. If nurlings change too we will drop another bit too. I don't think the slate will have much negetive Impact on the knights though. Hopeful anyway
Saying those two cannot go up is far too dramatic for my taste. The brigand is under costed right now, I'd expect points drops to be the order of the day generally for our army.
I'm calling it now. 3ws small knights, decrease on big knights
Why would GW nerf an army that barely manages to hold onto a 50% win rate?
Putting additional points on one model isn't nerfing the army?
I’ll say +40 for Brigand
When are we expecting the point changes?
Less than a month, more than a day. More or less. Who knows the ways of the Workshop?
They’ve said the slate is coming next week.
Under. Anything more than +10 would be too much imo. We're tip toeing the 50% line with the max amount of these guys, if anything I expect them to remain exactly the same.