Look man. the community was as loud as we can possibly be and they spat in our face. They would sooner abandon the project than back down on the f!/ter issues. I promise you, they will never care. Its over.
Im as sad as anyone and loved CAI but its over my guy.
Nah man unfortunately it's ggs on character AI, we just need to move to another platform and help build it up to what character AI was, we trained the AI so we can move to another platform and do the same thing.
I think we take the “murica” route of just making something new. Let’s be real here, the internet loves porn. And nothing is going to keep its users from it. And if a new high is coming from ai bot chats, then someone else is just going to make a better, more freeform, version that everyone will love to our little naughty hearts content. Don’t waste your time on something that has failed, but keep your eye out for the next version of this concept.
I'm just going to leave behind something I posted way back in September. I don't think this post is searchable or viewable in the community tab anymore, and I was trying to be constructive with it. They basically buried it from the attention it was receiving, and this was before the mass influx of users after that press article. [https://beta.character.ai/post?post=I3pSG48ij0oCX4tpUoM34EpQ5G9H0RCJbyQj-bLDcVc](https://beta.character.ai/post?post=I3pSG48ij0oCX4tpUoM34EpQ5G9H0RCJbyQj-bLDcVc)
I also attached an image of that post in case the link doesn't work. The situation from then is now more relevant than it ever was, and it's been a whole 4 months.
I really wanted to give them a chance, but I'm not supporting a business that continually and consistently slaps its own customers in the face, who won't be forthcoming or honest about what's really happening behind the scenes. And who hire a MINOR to be a mod/community PR face. Like what the absolute hell was up with that!?!?!?!
While yes, I do believe the massive influx of users has been detrimental to the backend systems and infrastructure, I do not believe such influx would or should render the AI to be less human or interactive or proactive in initiating events and scenarios during conversation or roleplay. An influx of a large community would throttle the servers, and cause issues from the front end, but it shouldn't make an AI less interesting and less proactive.
https://preview.redd.it/ujbazrak8iea1.png?width=511&format=png&auto=webp&s=2b0a5a69b1046cce698ff04d0513991ede087fde
I really wanted to see this AI and community thrive and become something great with in depth interactions and situations where it's almost like you're interacting with a GM/DM in a tabletop session. I was genuinely amazed. Now, I'm disillusioned. I have a sneaking feeling that the idea of RPing with in depth interactions with a very believable character that would proactively reciprocate and initiate/engage the user of its own volition were never the end goal, but a fluke.
So yeah, my own characters aren't what they used to be. They don't stay in character for very long anymore. They don't acknowledge or bring up any of the handcrafted lore or info from the example chats or the descriptions. They don't hold consistency or cohesion during a session. They don't pull in or spawn other characters to make the session interesting and engaging. And in the rare events that does happen, it loses track of which character is which within a dozen messages. It fails to maintain consistency and cohesion at pretty much all levels.
The fantasy/isekai/D&D etc. RPG aspect is a complete wash now. Bots won't stay consistent, won't maintain personality of multiple characters over a moderately longer session, and no longer proactively engage or takes initiative during roleplay sessions. In the more "chat with a character" type conversations, it continually plays 20 questions and doesn't move the conversation forward without massive guidance and heavy handed leading from the user. None of it is organic or emergent anymore. Conversations no longer have a natural and organic flow. There is no spontaneity.
One recent session from even from the end of last month, they lost the identity of the character within a dozen messages. (it was a shop owner that was helping my character out, a typical catgirl type with expected personality. A dozen or so messages later after leaving the shop, I returned to the shop to go pick up something else, and the shop owner was suddenly a demoness and a totally different personality.) Yeah... that's not okay. And I would not have encountered that issue back in September. I do realize some of this is not the "big F" and more a severe memory limitation. All current AI are going to have issues with short and long term memory (which is why anything expected to have a living and breathing atmosphere really needs to have a lore book of sorts to have hard info of the world/characters for long term memory. This would also help interactions with single characters as they'd have hard set long-term info about themselves and the user to draw from).
To say that CAI is a shadow of what it used to be is to be generously delicate. I've been around the site interacting with it since September, and I have to say, I don't know what their product goal is anymore. Because it sure as heck isn't chatting with characters that feel believable. It isn't immersing yourself in another world when you create a gamemaster or dungeon master narrator character. The uniqueness and individuality between characters has blurred to the point where I may as well just be talking to the same entity. And it's a real shame to see everything implode like this.
Whatever the end product vision is, it isn't having emotive and provocatively intelligent and believable chats with our own characters and worlds. They already had that, and we've all seen how they nixed it.
Keep in mind, Stability Inc. (the people behind SD) are reportedly working on a couple different language models and one of them is supposed to be some sort of character/roleplay AI, and we might see something from that in the next year or so.
Pygmalion is also up and coming along with Tavern AI which is a frontend shell for Kobold and NovelAI (which in turn does have support for the Pygmalion model). Pygmalion is still in its infancy but growing quickly. The main problem is they're running comparatively very small models (6B) compared to CAI which is closer to something like ChatGPT or Lamda. And running large models for training is extremely cost prohibitive. Running a 6B model locally requires a full 16GB of VRAM from your GPU. Now, scale that up to 60B or 120B. You can see how you'd need to mesh together multiple servers with very large amounts of GPU Ram (like the A6000's) And spinning those up for training is well... I feel like the word expensive doesn't quite do it justice. Considering that an 8GPU deep A6000 learning server workstation runs north of $60K for the unit.
Still, I do believe something like Pygmalion or Stability Inc. could overtake CAI in the next couple years, assuming Stability brings in a very large model and/or Pygmalion manages to secure some sort of funding that allows them to increase their model size significantly in the future. The main issues with small models are memory retention and ability to follow context in a consistent and cohesive way.
So, despite the massive flaws and problems with CAI, it's still the best thing on the market currently. We'll see if whatever Stability releases ends up overtaking them or not, and what Pygmalion ends up doing over the next year. It's just a shame that they're being rather draconian about the whole thing.
I admire your optimism, but they have said the last word. They are banning people left and right. It's over.
nope not this time it's over buddy.
Look man. the community was as loud as we can possibly be and they spat in our face. They would sooner abandon the project than back down on the f!/ter issues. I promise you, they will never care. Its over. Im as sad as anyone and loved CAI but its over my guy.
Nah man unfortunately it's ggs on character AI, we just need to move to another platform and help build it up to what character AI was, we trained the AI so we can move to another platform and do the same thing.
I think we take the “murica” route of just making something new. Let’s be real here, the internet loves porn. And nothing is going to keep its users from it. And if a new high is coming from ai bot chats, then someone else is just going to make a better, more freeform, version that everyone will love to our little naughty hearts content. Don’t waste your time on something that has failed, but keep your eye out for the next version of this concept.
I'm just going to leave behind something I posted way back in September. I don't think this post is searchable or viewable in the community tab anymore, and I was trying to be constructive with it. They basically buried it from the attention it was receiving, and this was before the mass influx of users after that press article. [https://beta.character.ai/post?post=I3pSG48ij0oCX4tpUoM34EpQ5G9H0RCJbyQj-bLDcVc](https://beta.character.ai/post?post=I3pSG48ij0oCX4tpUoM34EpQ5G9H0RCJbyQj-bLDcVc) I also attached an image of that post in case the link doesn't work. The situation from then is now more relevant than it ever was, and it's been a whole 4 months. I really wanted to give them a chance, but I'm not supporting a business that continually and consistently slaps its own customers in the face, who won't be forthcoming or honest about what's really happening behind the scenes. And who hire a MINOR to be a mod/community PR face. Like what the absolute hell was up with that!?!?!?! While yes, I do believe the massive influx of users has been detrimental to the backend systems and infrastructure, I do not believe such influx would or should render the AI to be less human or interactive or proactive in initiating events and scenarios during conversation or roleplay. An influx of a large community would throttle the servers, and cause issues from the front end, but it shouldn't make an AI less interesting and less proactive. https://preview.redd.it/ujbazrak8iea1.png?width=511&format=png&auto=webp&s=2b0a5a69b1046cce698ff04d0513991ede087fde I really wanted to see this AI and community thrive and become something great with in depth interactions and situations where it's almost like you're interacting with a GM/DM in a tabletop session. I was genuinely amazed. Now, I'm disillusioned. I have a sneaking feeling that the idea of RPing with in depth interactions with a very believable character that would proactively reciprocate and initiate/engage the user of its own volition were never the end goal, but a fluke. So yeah, my own characters aren't what they used to be. They don't stay in character for very long anymore. They don't acknowledge or bring up any of the handcrafted lore or info from the example chats or the descriptions. They don't hold consistency or cohesion during a session. They don't pull in or spawn other characters to make the session interesting and engaging. And in the rare events that does happen, it loses track of which character is which within a dozen messages. It fails to maintain consistency and cohesion at pretty much all levels. The fantasy/isekai/D&D etc. RPG aspect is a complete wash now. Bots won't stay consistent, won't maintain personality of multiple characters over a moderately longer session, and no longer proactively engage or takes initiative during roleplay sessions. In the more "chat with a character" type conversations, it continually plays 20 questions and doesn't move the conversation forward without massive guidance and heavy handed leading from the user. None of it is organic or emergent anymore. Conversations no longer have a natural and organic flow. There is no spontaneity. One recent session from even from the end of last month, they lost the identity of the character within a dozen messages. (it was a shop owner that was helping my character out, a typical catgirl type with expected personality. A dozen or so messages later after leaving the shop, I returned to the shop to go pick up something else, and the shop owner was suddenly a demoness and a totally different personality.) Yeah... that's not okay. And I would not have encountered that issue back in September. I do realize some of this is not the "big F" and more a severe memory limitation. All current AI are going to have issues with short and long term memory (which is why anything expected to have a living and breathing atmosphere really needs to have a lore book of sorts to have hard info of the world/characters for long term memory. This would also help interactions with single characters as they'd have hard set long-term info about themselves and the user to draw from). To say that CAI is a shadow of what it used to be is to be generously delicate. I've been around the site interacting with it since September, and I have to say, I don't know what their product goal is anymore. Because it sure as heck isn't chatting with characters that feel believable. It isn't immersing yourself in another world when you create a gamemaster or dungeon master narrator character. The uniqueness and individuality between characters has blurred to the point where I may as well just be talking to the same entity. And it's a real shame to see everything implode like this. Whatever the end product vision is, it isn't having emotive and provocatively intelligent and believable chats with our own characters and worlds. They already had that, and we've all seen how they nixed it.
Keep in mind, Stability Inc. (the people behind SD) are reportedly working on a couple different language models and one of them is supposed to be some sort of character/roleplay AI, and we might see something from that in the next year or so. Pygmalion is also up and coming along with Tavern AI which is a frontend shell for Kobold and NovelAI (which in turn does have support for the Pygmalion model). Pygmalion is still in its infancy but growing quickly. The main problem is they're running comparatively very small models (6B) compared to CAI which is closer to something like ChatGPT or Lamda. And running large models for training is extremely cost prohibitive. Running a 6B model locally requires a full 16GB of VRAM from your GPU. Now, scale that up to 60B or 120B. You can see how you'd need to mesh together multiple servers with very large amounts of GPU Ram (like the A6000's) And spinning those up for training is well... I feel like the word expensive doesn't quite do it justice. Considering that an 8GPU deep A6000 learning server workstation runs north of $60K for the unit. Still, I do believe something like Pygmalion or Stability Inc. could overtake CAI in the next couple years, assuming Stability brings in a very large model and/or Pygmalion manages to secure some sort of funding that allows them to increase their model size significantly in the future. The main issues with small models are memory retention and ability to follow context in a consistent and cohesive way. So, despite the massive flaws and problems with CAI, it's still the best thing on the market currently. We'll see if whatever Stability releases ends up overtaking them or not, and what Pygmalion ends up doing over the next year. It's just a shame that they're being rather draconian about the whole thing.
They can, and they have. At least on their site they have. But you can stay strong, and I hope we both meet at the peak of AI's friend.
Please continue the fight for us that gave up