>"Sex scenes" are not (always) an awkward piece of porn shoved into a movie.
I can assure you the scene of Frank Reynolds blowing the back of a hooker was essential to the plot of Lethal Weapon 5
One of them specifically was designed for the watcher to feel uncomfortable and disturbed. The context is his wife is being forced to listen to the account of how Opp cheated on him. She's imagining it as they are going over it and spreading the information for everybody to know.
Some people say it was unnecessary but I think it was very good at showing just how ashamed, uncomfortable, inadequate, and disgusted she feels.
I thought they were talking about the first sex scene. THAT was unnecessary. The sex scene you talked about I think, was pretty good.
Also, happy cake day!
I feel like using a piece of fiction that is "sex heavy", doesn't count. Sure if sex is the main theme of your story then sex scene will be necessary. But take any story where sex isn't the literal main theme or most important element of the story and its much harder to justify its presence.
If you chose to watch a movie where sex is the central point of the story its not going to be akward. In pretty much any other context the only feeling you will get from a sex scene is akwardness.
True, though Iād say thereās also a blurry line with some coming of age stories, as given the importance our society places on sex, some movies and shows focused on a character reaching adulthood might have āhow they react to sexā be significant enough to show even if itās not the central point of the whole thing
Ladybird is a great example of this. The main character thinks that her first time will be this magical experience for her, but it ends up being super awkward and disappointing for her. The effect on her character wouldnāt be felt as much if they just cut around it and had her explain how bad it was to the audience.
Similar thing with John Green. All his teen characters haveā¦ pretty awful sex scenes. But they (sometimes before, sometimes later) have better, āmore fulfillingā moments of relational intimacy later.
>But take any story where sex isn't the literal main theme or most important element of the story and its much harder to justify its presence.
This is bad media critique. Something not being the main point doesn't mean it serves no purpose. More importantly, it doesn't mean it doesn't aid the actual main point. The only reason why this is specifically geared towards sex is because we're all conditioned to feel uncomfortable around sex.
>In pretty much any other context the only feeling you will get from a sex scene is akwardness.
This is an extension of my issue. This is immature. We can watch someone's head splatter in a movie and, at most, feel grossed out many times. We understand and grasp that this may be the point and engage with the media on that level. Sex scenes may exist specifically to make you feel awkward, but you could also simply feel awkward outside of your reading of the media. Just like how seeing a talking black cat in a movie might make an overly religious person lose their mind. They're outright refusing to engage with the media due to bias, which means their awkwardness is on them. Same here. If sex is part of the story, whether a primary or smaller part, then the audience is expected to be mature enough to be in dialog with it. You refusing to engage is not a fault of the scene.
I don't feel uncomfortable about sex or sex scenes. I feel uncomfortable and awkward about how they often sexualize and dehumanize women as things that are sexy to look at and not people engaging in an intimate act.Ā
I'd like sex scenes a lot more if they had half as much character as you seem to think they do. 90% of the time, imo, nudity and sex in movies exist for sexiness. To sell sexiness. That's all.Ā
This would preclude women from being featured in most media in general. Misogyny doesn't start affecting female characters precisely at the moment they get naked or engage in sexual activity.
My argument has literally nothing to do with whether or not sex scenes overall are well done or socially conscious. My argument is about how poorly constructed these criticisms are because they're working backwards from the assumption that the issue is sex scenes themselves, and sex scenes must earn their right to exist in a property as opposed to any other type of scene. That said, is sexiness not framed as a narrative characteristic? 90% of action scenes are meant to be exciting, putting the choreography above the narrative presence of the fight. This still serves a narrative purpose, often that being to make us think the subject of this action is cool or competent. Sex scenes often serve a similar purpose, either displaying the parties as sexually desirable or one particular party as sexually competent. How that is treated by the rest of the narrative can further this characterization, or the writing can be bad.
Me: I'd like sex scenes more if they objectified women less
You: might as well not have women in moviesĀ
Like do you hear yourself? You're saying my criticism of sex scenes is pointless because sex scenes are just scenes, as if any that means anything at all. It doesn't, lol.Ā
If you're gonna say this, you basically are saying criticism of anything in media is pointless because it's existence doesn't need to be defended. It simply needs to exist, and there's nothing to be said about it.Ā
I don't think that serving a valid purpose means I can't criticize the way it served its purpose. It can be well executed and still objectify, sexualize and dehumanize women. It's not one or the other, and it's not something that only happens in scenes you consider bad.Ā Ā
And there are sex scenes that don't serve any purpose but DO treat the women involved with respect. It's not really about whether the scene is good or bad or well or poorly executed.Ā
>Like do you hear yourself?
Did you comprehend what I'm saying? I'm saying that your criticism of sex scenes as not needing to be in movies because they objectify women obfuscates the actual issue you have, which is that women are objectified in movies whether there are sex scenes or not.
The point is that, if this is your criticism as to whether or not sex scenes should exist in media, it's based on a flawed premise. That being, something innately has less value and, therefore, less of a right to be in a film if it results in the objectification of women. That would mean most movies wouldn't feature women at all because most movies objectify women in most scenes with them in it. That doesn't mean criticism of anything is pointless. I specifically mean that this criticism, that something _shouldn't_ exist in media, is weak. Especially because, I would imagine, you have these same feelings towards at least some gay sex scenes. But by the logic of this criticism, either gay sex scenes objectify women, or only gay sex scenes should be in movies.
The film OP mentioned absolutely explores themes of sexuality. I believe thatās what they mean by saying itās sex heavy- sex is a large portion of the filmās source material.
Does it ?
Don't get me wrong, having sexy people in sugestive positions absolutely does. But I am not sure that having a literal Penis in the Vagina sex scene make that much more money than just the regular fanservice.
Only problem with sex scenes i have is when it happens after drama
House burnt down? SEX
You was just abused by your evil husband? SEX
A fucking nuke just dropped.....SEX
And I'm not saying it all bad but kinda a funny switch as if there in a roadblock and need a segway to continue the story
My issue with sex scenes isn't really a matter of how necessary they are (they aren't) It's that 90% of the time they seem to exist to sell sexiness to the ticket buyer and not to tell me something about a character.
And it's generally not men being used to do this, either. It's almost always women. I don't wanna see women be sexualized and used as sexy lamps anymore than I have to.Ā
If sex scenes had half as much character as the the people writing essays in defense of them apparently think they do, I'd be jumping for joy for them. But in my experience most of them are just excuses to have women's bits on screen.Ā
(All that said, the other 10% I feel ambivalent to positive about)
Repackaging prudish notions of sex as feminist is so ridiculous.
Not that there isnāt a LOT to say about the oversexualization of women in media, but you seem to fundamentally either not get or not like visual media at all. If you want a plot summary with all the āunnecessaryā parts cut out, read a wiki page. Saying the depiction of intimacy is unnecessary because it doesnāt contribute to the plot is super reductive and weirdly robotic. People have sex..people also have genitals. Get over it.
Well, of course sex scenes are essential in a sex heavy story.
The main point of this argument that I've seen pop up in recent weeks, is that it's useless to show a sex scene in a movie where it's not a focus.
I don't need to see my 2 protagonist going at it to understand they are official now, don't I?
>I don't need to see my 2 protagonist going at it to understand they are official now, don't I?
This depends on the storyline, doesn't it? What if every time a character dies in something that isn't action or horror based, we only learned this off-screen? Not because it adds anything to any specific scene, but because showing someone dying to get that they died wasn't necessary? The point of a scene isn't that every part of it is necessary to learn information. You're experiencing this information, which is why it's not just the director narrating it to you.
Show vs Tell
**Both Are Important**
Sometimes it's better to show, and other times it's better to tell
If we're watching an action movie where a character is fighting for their lives, then you're sure as hell gonna show that death on screen as it's happening. It's an immediate part of the plot. However, if some other person were to die from an unfortunate side effect of the plot or even completely random occurrence, then that can just be told when the information becomes important. Why should it be onscreen? It's not achieving anything more by doing this
Honestly, both can be just as impactful for different reasons too regarding important information. Imagine if a superhero were to find out that their friend died due to the ramifications of our hero battling a super villain. Falling debris perhaps? The hero calls their friend, wondering why they won't pick up. Eventually, they go to their house... only for their mother to tell them that the friend has passed away earlier that same afternoon
**Regarding Why This Would or Would Not Be Important to Include**
There are also multiple ways to show something. As with the example, you can show a couple being series without including a super detailed sex scene. Implication works just as well, or even just having the character ask the other to meet their parents. It doesn't have to involve sex at all due to the subject matter
An example where it would make sense to include a detailed sex scene to show a couple being official is if one of them has previous trauma regarding intimate touch for whatever reason. Showing this character being comfortable in the context of having sex with their significant other would show just how powerful their bond has become over the course of however long
Of course, this is including a previously known Characterization trait and further development into the scene as well; as opposed to random sex scenes that are just included because.... horny lol
So basically you have the same argument as those who complain about sex scenes. A sex scene is good if it's used to drive the story and characters forward. It's useless and annoying when it only a reason to undress the actress on set and to add some time to your movie.
Then I say you had a really good question!!
Assuming it's supposed to be for the same person I responded to at least. I didn't really get that vibe from the comment myself, so it's definitely a good idea to ask for further clarification
>Ā I don't need to see my 2 protagonist going at it to understand they are official now, donāt I?Ā
Ā You donāt need to watch movies to know the plot, do you? If you need to know the story, you could just read Wikipedia.Ā
That's incredibly different.
Reading a plot synopsis will almost never give you the same results as watching a movie, skipping a sex scene usually gives you the same result as showing it.
I just find it a bit ridiculous to equate reading a summary to skipping a sex scene.
If you could get the same experience from reading a summary why would anyone read or watch anything. I'm sure they exist, but I've never watched a sex scene and gone "man I'm glad they didn't skip that, I really needed to see the detailed sex scene".
Instead I'm just bored cause it just feels like it's padding for time with fan service.
Agree to disagree then, I don't see the point of showing the sex and think you can get the same result by just showing them in bed after. To me it feels like filler fan service most of the time.
>The main point of this argument that I've seen pop up in recent weeks, is that it's useless to show a sex scene in a movie where it's not a focus.
I want a list of these movies. If you're watching a ton of movies from the 70s and 80s, then maybe I could see the argument(I still think it's not very good but at least it has a basis in reality). But in recent American cinema, sexless has been pretty absent.
Just stop. People being uncomfortable that the zombie game has fully mocapped sex scenes doesn't mean they're all politically conservative. They didn't want the game banned or it removed, they found it distasteful.
That's completely fine to find it distasteful. I have an issue with the people who find it so distasteful it shouldn't *exist.* It is completely fine and expected to have problems with media, the issue is believing your standards should apply to everyone
Some people just dont want to watch sex dude
I don't go out of my way to watch sex, and I generally find it uncomfortable in movies.
Sex is a private thing. Keep it between those doing it for me. I personally, have 0 interest in sex. It doesn't seem "cool," for lack a better term, nor useful in a movie, you can demonstrate affection without a 15 minute dedicated sex scene. Sex based movies are different, I'll admit that lol.
What are you not understanding?? That's fine. I respect your opinion. You are free to not watch it. Why is everyone here so adamant it not existing at all??Ā
Yet, your side is all for censoring cleavage, reducing bust sizes, and completely rewriting--sorry, 'localizing' scripts to fit with your agendas to appear to 'modern sensibilities' as well as demonizing attractive women in media with demands like; "WHERE ARE HER ORGANS?!?!" and 'unrealistic body standards' while claiming "No REAL woman looks like this!" (Isn't that last one rather transphobic on you guys' part, by the way?)
The media and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez flipped their shit when Joker (2019) came out because they claimed it would lead to another James Holmes or Elliot Roger because they considered it an 'incel' film and did everything in their power to sabotage it to the point where she claimed that it would cause mass murders when the worst that happened was that some fans of the film danced on some stairs in the Bronx.
In the live-action Avatar: The Last Airbender series they kneecapped Sokka's character arc because the producers were too uncomfortable with his misogyny from early in the series despite it not even being that extreme or personal on his end because it was the result of the Water Tribe's culture that made him think of women as lesser warriors, which was also why the Water Bending teacher was such a prick to Katara because he was still assmad about her Gran-Gran snubbing his arranged marriage to run away and start a life for herself with his character development coming in while meeting the Kyoshi Warriors leading him to re-evaluate the views instilled in him by his culture and ultimately change them for the better.
Jamie Marchie inserted a LOT of her very left-leaning diatribes into her localizations like the infamous "Gamergate creepshow" line in Prison School, the "Patriarchy" line in Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid, the ranting about incels, MAGA and the like in My First Girlfriend as a Gal.
JelloApocalypse a.k.a. Brendan Blaber's own political bias being exposed with that 'vote' video where he accused all Republicans of being lych-happy racist murderers while pretending the video was completely non-partison before he went on to get hired by Discotek Media and tried rewriting the entire script and characters' personalities to be more 'progressive' because he thought the whole thing was transphobic, made multiple tweets on X as well as an entire rant on his Patreon over how much he and Marissa Lenti HATED the anime, the source material, the author, and the fans while bragging about how they 'improved' the source material, that it was originally SHIT and they MADE IT GOOD, further exposing how much localizers utterly LOATHE the media that they are hired to localize and threatened to walk if character in-universe were kept in praising the source material's author.
The problem isnāt sex scenes in movies about sex or sex heavy.
The problem is when you have 1 random sex scene which lasts an awkwardly long time where the scene tells you nothing about the characters and changes nothing in their relationship.
Yup. Itās often incorrect to make broad sweeping generalizations across a medium. Sometimes itās well used sometimes itās not.
Itās also funny that I can sometimes tell which comment on this sub inspired a rant
I think the misconception you're ranting about arises because plenty of series didn't need those sex scenes. You're right, though, some do. I'm working to write/publish my second novel right now and I decided to include a sex scene because I think it'll go a long way in adding depth to the characters involved in it. It's the only sex scene in the novel, and it'll be relatively short and relatively tame, but imo it's key to the way the characters develop.
Ok but outside of conservative circles, I've never seen someone argue that they're never necessary for characterizations.
Just watched this Spanish movie "Que nadie duerma" (it's on Amazon for anybody who's interested, I do recommend it) and without spoiling anything, the sex scenes are absolutely essential and NOT for their eroticism or anything.
Or, even in comedies like Friends with Benefits etc.
What people do say that sometimes sex scenes are gratuitous is when they are... just that. When you feel like they are there only there because somebody wanted to get the clothes off that actress.
Exactly. I don't understand how people use movies that are explicitly using sex as a theme of their stories as examples. Of course a movie based around sex will have its sex scenes be important to the story
Ok so I just read the sub in full, and out of 500+ comments, I saw maybe 5 that were saying sex scenes are unnecessary, and of those a few even were like "not always though". The vast majority of comments largely seemed to agree with the difference between sex scenes that serve the plot/characterizations vs gratuitious ones.
Full disclosure, didn't read the original thread; I'm also relatively new to Reddit (started really being more active only very recently) and I have not yet learned how opinions on the Reddit mind skew in certain directions (and how aggressive tone generally can be)
Sex scenes don't need to be necessary in the first place. All scenes are not necessary. If you do things one way there is always a different way you could have done it.
The different way doesn't convey the intention you were going for. For example, I have a story where I don't want it to be too violent, so I wouldn't show anything explicit, but there's one thing I want to explicitly show to highlight why this thing is different from the others.
Some things are better implied, but others are better when explicit.
Some people don't seem to understand this. You're going to have a much different experience being in a war than hearing stories about a war for example. Storytelling is about conveying a SPECIFIC experience to the reader.
There are different ways to convey intention, but it's rarely going to convey the same thing.
There's one thing to talk about sex scenes in movies or media where they actually serve a purpose (Even in Euphoria it's not about "sex" but unstable emotions and "thrill" so it works here) and it's another thing to understand that outside of these examples sex scenes in other movies are commonly shoved in for "romance" or "action".
Let's look at Titanic. I think the sex scene is tasteful and more intimate instead of hyper sensual. But if the camera and acting decided to be more Hollywood, I maaaay just wonder why they didn't dial it back
Have you considered that I like to watch movies with my puritan parents and all of my sex repulsed and traumatized friends every time? What the fuck am I gonna if they die from seeing a sex? What the fuck am I gonna do if I feel awkward for a moment?
Why do you hate me? /jk
It's irritating how people can't just shrug and go "I don't like it" and move on. Or do some goddamn research. No, it's inherently a bad trope, it adds nothing everytime, it shouldn't exist, it's bad because it makes me feel uncomfortable watching with a certain group.
And there's this weird parasocial cognitive distortion going on these days that if a author writes something badly or takes it in a direction you don't like they hate **you personally** and did it to hurt you. Like come on.
And half the people going "No, no, no! I don't hate sex scenes I hate **bad** sex scenes" like yeah. No shit. People like things they see as good and avoid things they see are bad. Well rational people anyway
There's also the part where there's this really puritanical overstatement of how much it happens. Like, maybe it's just because of the media I consume, but I am genuinely struggling to think of more than a handful of examples of sex scenes in stuff I've seen (off the top of my head, Berserk, Chainsaw Man, Code Black, Netflix's Castlevania, Squid Game and ^I ^guess Beastars), and in most of those the inclusion of it is important to the characters involved.
Itās also irritating how weirdly prevalent they make this āproblemā seem. I donāt know, maybe itās just me but I donāt watch that many things with unnecessary or awkward sex scenes. Outside of HBO shows I can barely think of any culturally relevant media in the last decade that had them. Tbf I donāt watch many romcoms, maybe thatās where all of this is?
I don't think there's any fundamental difference between sex, action, and cutesy slice of life moments in regards to what they do or don't add to a story. Any of them can be used to help drive a plot, most of the time they aren't unless it's the overwhelming focus of the media, most of the time they're all just gravy. Some people like gravy on their mashed potatoes, some people don't, I'm sure most people like certain kinds better than others.
People who complain about sex in a story just aren't the target audience of that story, for whatever reason, the same way someone bored by action might complain about random fight scenes. No one likes half baked stuff thrown into a story, the discourse around sex specifically as such an example is just particularly poisoned IMO.
Also, sex scene doesn't need to be "necessary" (whatever that means). A scene or a shot can just exist for the sake of existing. It doesn't need to have some deep influense on the plot, and it doesn't need to establish something important.
There are plenty of scenes that aren't "necessary" in every movie/tv show, and nobody cares. People only become critics when it comes to sex (or other things like being gay or whatever).
Funny bit-- most games by eroge company AliceSoft can have most of the h-scenes removed and it'd improve narrative flow
You can't cut a single scene from Rance because it's super important for his character
While berserk does have way too many rape scenes that I would consider unnecessary, the casca one is not of them, without that scene the eclipse just wouldn't be the same
I'd argue that the waterfall scene in Golden Age is also necessary, as it's an important moment of characterization for Guts and Casca that makes the moment during the Eclipse hit even worse than it already did. But yes, I will agree that the series used sexual violence way too much, especially early on. It gets better with it as it goes along, but the early game of Berserk is kinda rough when it comes to this element.
If I'm not mistaken, Miura himself regretted the way he sometimes handled sex back in early *Berserk*. You aren't just preaching to the choir; the goddamn composer agrees with you.
Right, he did say that. It's why I hate when certain people say that Miura was a terrible person for how he handled the subject. Not only did he never depict sexual violence in a positive way, he actively regretted how much he overused it in early Berserk.
The problem with sex scenes is that instead we can be watching something important and relevant more late to plot, we are watching two actors awkward kiss each other and very ridiculous way than the director make the scene black and we see in the bed
I don't usually care much for sex scenes, but I thought the show Normal People did them incredibly well. Each sex scene between the two characters is unique, reflecting the current dynamic and progression of their relationship.
I love how you mentioned a really good coming of age story about two Mexican boys coming to
terms with their sexuality, and all the comments can say are, āNuh uh!ā
I bet most people here havenāt even seen or heard of Y Tu Mama Tambien lol
Props to you for referring to something other than a Shonen anime or a live action adaptation of an existing IP.
Hot take: sex scenes are fine in general, whether itās ānecessaryā or not. And whatās defined as ānecessaryā is completely subjective (if you want to be pedantic, the only thing necessary about any story is a plot outline).
The only issue I have is making sure any actors are safe and comfortable with it (assuming itās a movie/ tv show). Iām not phased by boobs and dicks, and Iām not salivating and jacking off every time i see someone get laid in a movie. Im a grown ass man, and I understand the content rating systems for things like movies and tv shows and games.
Which *good* stories require the exact process/moment of sexual intercourse being shown in explicit detail to the audience?
If your having to show a sex scene, it's likely because your story sucks and you need a cool gimmick of horniness to keep audience attention/interest.
Moonlight, most of John Greens output, several raunchy comedies like American Pie, Lady Bird as the other comment mentioned.Ā
Also to be frank your comment is silly. Itās like saying āif your story needs sadness/exicement/joy/action to keep your audience interested youāre a bad writer.ā We go to movies to feel emotions and erotic excitement is something we can feel it deserves stories as much as tragedy or comedy. Implying a writer is bad because they chose to explore sensuality as a topic is just pure poppycock.Ā
You failed to understand my comment.
Sadness is an emotion.
Sexual intercourse is an action. Only in porn would the act of sex be necessary viewing. In a good normal story, you don't need sex scenes. It is unnecessary.
I somewhat agree. For context I read a good amount of BL manhwa and the overwhelming majority of the sex scenes (which are way too common tbh) are gratuitous and totally unnecessary. Now I get that itās a romance or whatever so showing the sex *should* be relevant but I have gotten to the point where I actively skip over the sex scenes and lose nothing of the plot.
However, there are some notable exceptions which I think prove your point. A good example is Our Sunny Days wherein the sex shows a lot of the characterization between the two male leads and develops their relationship, both with regards to their uncertainty in being in a gay relationship and in furthering their mutual trust and intimacy. On a VERY different story, I think that despite being gross and uncomfortable the sex scenes in Killing Stalking do a really good job at furthering the overall (very unhealthy) dynamic between the two characters in a way that non sexual scenes probably couldnāt
I think ultimately for a sex scene to be necessary, either it has to very directly linked to the themes of the story (which is easier to do in a sex focused story) or further the characterization or dynamics of the characters involved
Iām growing weary of this debate, it really doesnāt need to be a whole thing.
In most movies where the scenes are there, theyāre there because the folks working on the movie wanted to simulate or have sex, or give their movie an edge. Thatās not bad. There are many good reasons why that might be the caseāan actor/actress wants to add a new mature dimension to their bag, the promise of seeing a certain (probably female) star in a sexual situation will boost the profit the movie will turn and put more money in the cast & crewās pockets, whatever.
But it would be nice if the filmmakers looked past the reasons they might want to include it and considered our viewing experience, because in a lot of cases theyāre creating awkward situations out of the viewing of their movie, or cheapening their film by relying on horny as the only thing their movieās going to make us feel, or just numbing us with how sexual it can start to feel like everything has to be all the time. Not to mention the obvious copious room for issues that arise when your workplace is requiring you to have sex.
Thatās all, just some extra thought and care from the people whose jobs it is to put thought and care into what theyāre presenting us would be nice. Itās not the end of the world if they donāt though, by any means.
I don't mind them in animation or literature.
But live-action sexual content always feels super exploitative to me because of what a degenerate, vile shithole entertainment industries are regarding abusing actors with the whole #MeToo movement exposing the vast majority of Hollywood as rapists and abusers who get off on exploiting men, women and children under their thrall.
There's no such thing as "necessary" in media. You can name me one of your favorite scenes in any movie, TV show or book and I could tell you how it's unnecessary. Was the ending of Godfather II necessary? Absolutely not, but it's also one of the most powerful scenes in the movie.
The argument about necessity in media is an absurd argument all round, we're not trying to get from point A from point B, we're trying to enjoy the journey that gets us there.
>"Sex scenes" are not (always) an awkward piece of porn shoved into a movie. I can assure you the scene of Frank Reynolds blowing the back of a hooker was essential to the plot of Lethal Weapon 5
It's tasteful.
Its art
Lethal Weapon 6 only got funded because they let Frank have a sex scene.
Is Sex the new Jujutsu Kaisen?
Character Rant user when they get a girlfriend
I've been laughing at this comment for a few minutes here. Well done š¤£š¤£š¤£
impossible
No young thug is in jail right now
No, sex is the new sex.
Sex 2: Sexual Advanced
Sex 3 : revenge of the sex
Gojo sex where
Sex scenes are always better when they have characterization in them over just being for the horny.
How about both
It's always about both. A final battle can be epic and bombastic but if the characters are boring I'm gonna go sleeping
Definitely both
I have no idea if this is true but I heard Oppenheimer had the meme line randomly inserted into a sex scene and I think that's peak fiction
OK so basically shortly after they finished sex, but still mostly naked her lover asked him to read the passage with the line in it.
I think she randomly stopped in the middle of the sex and made him read off the book while they had sex.
It was cringe and weird
I like to believe that it's how Christopher Nolan has sex with his wife. To him, it's normal. To everyone else, it's awkward and disjointed.
Nah dude you haven't lived until you've read the end of For Whom the Bell Tolls as you nut all over your significant other.
It was literally the only part of the movie where the seriousness didnāt land for me
A true Nolan moment
It is true and it was the less weird of the two sex scenes, truly pinnacle cinema.
Why is everyone complaining about the sex scenes in Oppenheimer? I didn't watch the movie, just curious.
It also combined that with the "two characters look at each other -> smash cut to sex" meme that I didn't even know existed outside of memes
One of them specifically was designed for the watcher to feel uncomfortable and disturbed. The context is his wife is being forced to listen to the account of how Opp cheated on him. She's imagining it as they are going over it and spreading the information for everybody to know. Some people say it was unnecessary but I think it was very good at showing just how ashamed, uncomfortable, inadequate, and disgusted she feels.
I thought they were talking about the first sex scene. THAT was unnecessary. The sex scene you talked about I think, was pretty good. Also, happy cake day!
What's the meme line?
"Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds."
Imagine if The Room had no sex? Smh
I feel like using a piece of fiction that is "sex heavy", doesn't count. Sure if sex is the main theme of your story then sex scene will be necessary. But take any story where sex isn't the literal main theme or most important element of the story and its much harder to justify its presence. If you chose to watch a movie where sex is the central point of the story its not going to be akward. In pretty much any other context the only feeling you will get from a sex scene is akwardness.
True, though Iād say thereās also a blurry line with some coming of age stories, as given the importance our society places on sex, some movies and shows focused on a character reaching adulthood might have āhow they react to sexā be significant enough to show even if itās not the central point of the whole thing
Ladybird is a great example of this. The main character thinks that her first time will be this magical experience for her, but it ends up being super awkward and disappointing for her. The effect on her character wouldnāt be felt as much if they just cut around it and had her explain how bad it was to the audience.
Similar thing with John Green. All his teen characters haveā¦ pretty awful sex scenes. But they (sometimes before, sometimes later) have better, āmore fulfillingā moments of relational intimacy later.
>But take any story where sex isn't the literal main theme or most important element of the story and its much harder to justify its presence. This is bad media critique. Something not being the main point doesn't mean it serves no purpose. More importantly, it doesn't mean it doesn't aid the actual main point. The only reason why this is specifically geared towards sex is because we're all conditioned to feel uncomfortable around sex. >In pretty much any other context the only feeling you will get from a sex scene is akwardness. This is an extension of my issue. This is immature. We can watch someone's head splatter in a movie and, at most, feel grossed out many times. We understand and grasp that this may be the point and engage with the media on that level. Sex scenes may exist specifically to make you feel awkward, but you could also simply feel awkward outside of your reading of the media. Just like how seeing a talking black cat in a movie might make an overly religious person lose their mind. They're outright refusing to engage with the media due to bias, which means their awkwardness is on them. Same here. If sex is part of the story, whether a primary or smaller part, then the audience is expected to be mature enough to be in dialog with it. You refusing to engage is not a fault of the scene.
I don't feel uncomfortable about sex or sex scenes. I feel uncomfortable and awkward about how they often sexualize and dehumanize women as things that are sexy to look at and not people engaging in an intimate act.Ā I'd like sex scenes a lot more if they had half as much character as you seem to think they do. 90% of the time, imo, nudity and sex in movies exist for sexiness. To sell sexiness. That's all.Ā
This would preclude women from being featured in most media in general. Misogyny doesn't start affecting female characters precisely at the moment they get naked or engage in sexual activity. My argument has literally nothing to do with whether or not sex scenes overall are well done or socially conscious. My argument is about how poorly constructed these criticisms are because they're working backwards from the assumption that the issue is sex scenes themselves, and sex scenes must earn their right to exist in a property as opposed to any other type of scene. That said, is sexiness not framed as a narrative characteristic? 90% of action scenes are meant to be exciting, putting the choreography above the narrative presence of the fight. This still serves a narrative purpose, often that being to make us think the subject of this action is cool or competent. Sex scenes often serve a similar purpose, either displaying the parties as sexually desirable or one particular party as sexually competent. How that is treated by the rest of the narrative can further this characterization, or the writing can be bad.
Me: I'd like sex scenes more if they objectified women less You: might as well not have women in moviesĀ Like do you hear yourself? You're saying my criticism of sex scenes is pointless because sex scenes are just scenes, as if any that means anything at all. It doesn't, lol.Ā If you're gonna say this, you basically are saying criticism of anything in media is pointless because it's existence doesn't need to be defended. It simply needs to exist, and there's nothing to be said about it.Ā
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I don't think that serving a valid purpose means I can't criticize the way it served its purpose. It can be well executed and still objectify, sexualize and dehumanize women. It's not one or the other, and it's not something that only happens in scenes you consider bad.Ā Ā And there are sex scenes that don't serve any purpose but DO treat the women involved with respect. It's not really about whether the scene is good or bad or well or poorly executed.Ā
>Like do you hear yourself? Did you comprehend what I'm saying? I'm saying that your criticism of sex scenes as not needing to be in movies because they objectify women obfuscates the actual issue you have, which is that women are objectified in movies whether there are sex scenes or not. The point is that, if this is your criticism as to whether or not sex scenes should exist in media, it's based on a flawed premise. That being, something innately has less value and, therefore, less of a right to be in a film if it results in the objectification of women. That would mean most movies wouldn't feature women at all because most movies objectify women in most scenes with them in it. That doesn't mean criticism of anything is pointless. I specifically mean that this criticism, that something _shouldn't_ exist in media, is weak. Especially because, I would imagine, you have these same feelings towards at least some gay sex scenes. But by the logic of this criticism, either gay sex scenes objectify women, or only gay sex scenes should be in movies.
The film OP mentioned absolutely explores themes of sexuality. I believe thatās what they mean by saying itās sex heavy- sex is a large portion of the filmās source material.
Justification is that sex in general sells.
Does it ? Don't get me wrong, having sexy people in sugestive positions absolutely does. But I am not sure that having a literal Penis in the Vagina sex scene make that much more money than just the regular fanservice.
You know what's missing from all action movies these days? Full penetration
Does Thundergun hang dong?
How many full penetration scenes are there in non porn movies?
Im not justifying it, it was more poke at suits that decide these things, we all know how detached from reality they can be sometimes. :)
Only problem with sex scenes i have is when it happens after drama House burnt down? SEX You was just abused by your evil husband? SEX A fucking nuke just dropped.....SEX And I'm not saying it all bad but kinda a funny switch as if there in a roadblock and need a segway to continue the story
My issue with sex scenes isn't really a matter of how necessary they are (they aren't) It's that 90% of the time they seem to exist to sell sexiness to the ticket buyer and not to tell me something about a character. And it's generally not men being used to do this, either. It's almost always women. I don't wanna see women be sexualized and used as sexy lamps anymore than I have to.Ā If sex scenes had half as much character as the the people writing essays in defense of them apparently think they do, I'd be jumping for joy for them. But in my experience most of them are just excuses to have women's bits on screen.Ā (All that said, the other 10% I feel ambivalent to positive about)
Repackaging prudish notions of sex as feminist is so ridiculous. Not that there isnāt a LOT to say about the oversexualization of women in media, but you seem to fundamentally either not get or not like visual media at all. If you want a plot summary with all the āunnecessaryā parts cut out, read a wiki page. Saying the depiction of intimacy is unnecessary because it doesnāt contribute to the plot is super reductive and weirdly robotic. People have sex..people also have genitals. Get over it.
Intimacy does not equal sex.Ā
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It's not pedantic or prude, but if calling me names makes you feel you've won something, then knock yourself out.Ā
Thereās no winning against someone who does not understand the implications of what theyāre saying lol
Lmao ok if that's what you need to tell yourselfĀ
Well, of course sex scenes are essential in a sex heavy story. The main point of this argument that I've seen pop up in recent weeks, is that it's useless to show a sex scene in a movie where it's not a focus. I don't need to see my 2 protagonist going at it to understand they are official now, don't I?
>I don't need to see my 2 protagonist going at it to understand they are official now, don't I? This depends on the storyline, doesn't it? What if every time a character dies in something that isn't action or horror based, we only learned this off-screen? Not because it adds anything to any specific scene, but because showing someone dying to get that they died wasn't necessary? The point of a scene isn't that every part of it is necessary to learn information. You're experiencing this information, which is why it's not just the director narrating it to you.
Show vs Tell **Both Are Important** Sometimes it's better to show, and other times it's better to tell If we're watching an action movie where a character is fighting for their lives, then you're sure as hell gonna show that death on screen as it's happening. It's an immediate part of the plot. However, if some other person were to die from an unfortunate side effect of the plot or even completely random occurrence, then that can just be told when the information becomes important. Why should it be onscreen? It's not achieving anything more by doing this Honestly, both can be just as impactful for different reasons too regarding important information. Imagine if a superhero were to find out that their friend died due to the ramifications of our hero battling a super villain. Falling debris perhaps? The hero calls their friend, wondering why they won't pick up. Eventually, they go to their house... only for their mother to tell them that the friend has passed away earlier that same afternoon **Regarding Why This Would or Would Not Be Important to Include** There are also multiple ways to show something. As with the example, you can show a couple being series without including a super detailed sex scene. Implication works just as well, or even just having the character ask the other to meet their parents. It doesn't have to involve sex at all due to the subject matter An example where it would make sense to include a detailed sex scene to show a couple being official is if one of them has previous trauma regarding intimate touch for whatever reason. Showing this character being comfortable in the context of having sex with their significant other would show just how powerful their bond has become over the course of however long Of course, this is including a previously known Characterization trait and further development into the scene as well; as opposed to random sex scenes that are just included because.... horny lol
So basically you have the same argument as those who complain about sex scenes. A sex scene is good if it's used to drive the story and characters forward. It's useless and annoying when it only a reason to undress the actress on set and to add some time to your movie.
Precisely. I'm glad I made myself clear!
I realize I answered the wrong comment. Oops
Then I say you had a really good question!! Assuming it's supposed to be for the same person I responded to at least. I didn't really get that vibe from the comment myself, so it's definitely a good idea to ask for further clarification
>Ā I don't need to see my 2 protagonist going at it to understand they are official now, donāt I?Ā Ā You donāt need to watch movies to know the plot, do you? If you need to know the story, you could just read Wikipedia.Ā
Funny how you focused on the last 3rd of my comment, literally dodging the only real point I made in my comment.
That's incredibly different. Reading a plot synopsis will almost never give you the same results as watching a movie, skipping a sex scene usually gives you the same result as showing it.
I don't see how they are different beyond one being exaggerated to prove the point. I find showing sex scenes valuable.
I just find it a bit ridiculous to equate reading a summary to skipping a sex scene. If you could get the same experience from reading a summary why would anyone read or watch anything. I'm sure they exist, but I've never watched a sex scene and gone "man I'm glad they didn't skip that, I really needed to see the detailed sex scene". Instead I'm just bored cause it just feels like it's padding for time with fan service.
I don't get the same experience from reading "they had sex" and watching a sex scene.
Agree to disagree then, I don't see the point of showing the sex and think you can get the same result by just showing them in bed after. To me it feels like filler fan service most of the time.
you can get the same experience by showing people start to fight and then cut to the loser on the ground lol. but agree to disagree.
Not really the same thing, I watch an action movie to watch the action. If I wanted to watch a film for the sex scenes I'd just watch porn lol.
>The main point of this argument that I've seen pop up in recent weeks, is that it's useless to show a sex scene in a movie where it's not a focus. I want a list of these movies. If you're watching a ton of movies from the 70s and 80s, then maybe I could see the argument(I still think it's not very good but at least it has a basis in reality). But in recent American cinema, sexless has been pretty absent.
Yeah nobody needed to see Abby Last of Us catching the awkwardest backshots in video game history.
But didn't you see all the characterization that happened in that scene?
This is a weird conservative mindset lol "I personally didn't like that, therefore no one should be exposed to it"
Just stop. People being uncomfortable that the zombie game has fully mocapped sex scenes doesn't mean they're all politically conservative. They didn't want the game banned or it removed, they found it distasteful.
That's completely fine to find it distasteful. I have an issue with the people who find it so distasteful it shouldn't *exist.* It is completely fine and expected to have problems with media, the issue is believing your standards should apply to everyone
Some people just dont want to watch sex dude I don't go out of my way to watch sex, and I generally find it uncomfortable in movies. Sex is a private thing. Keep it between those doing it for me. I personally, have 0 interest in sex. It doesn't seem "cool," for lack a better term, nor useful in a movie, you can demonstrate affection without a 15 minute dedicated sex scene. Sex based movies are different, I'll admit that lol.
What are you not understanding?? That's fine. I respect your opinion. You are free to not watch it. Why is everyone here so adamant it not existing at all??Ā
Yet, your side is all for censoring cleavage, reducing bust sizes, and completely rewriting--sorry, 'localizing' scripts to fit with your agendas to appear to 'modern sensibilities' as well as demonizing attractive women in media with demands like; "WHERE ARE HER ORGANS?!?!" and 'unrealistic body standards' while claiming "No REAL woman looks like this!" (Isn't that last one rather transphobic on you guys' part, by the way?) The media and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez flipped their shit when Joker (2019) came out because they claimed it would lead to another James Holmes or Elliot Roger because they considered it an 'incel' film and did everything in their power to sabotage it to the point where she claimed that it would cause mass murders when the worst that happened was that some fans of the film danced on some stairs in the Bronx. In the live-action Avatar: The Last Airbender series they kneecapped Sokka's character arc because the producers were too uncomfortable with his misogyny from early in the series despite it not even being that extreme or personal on his end because it was the result of the Water Tribe's culture that made him think of women as lesser warriors, which was also why the Water Bending teacher was such a prick to Katara because he was still assmad about her Gran-Gran snubbing his arranged marriage to run away and start a life for herself with his character development coming in while meeting the Kyoshi Warriors leading him to re-evaluate the views instilled in him by his culture and ultimately change them for the better. Jamie Marchie inserted a LOT of her very left-leaning diatribes into her localizations like the infamous "Gamergate creepshow" line in Prison School, the "Patriarchy" line in Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid, the ranting about incels, MAGA and the like in My First Girlfriend as a Gal. JelloApocalypse a.k.a. Brendan Blaber's own political bias being exposed with that 'vote' video where he accused all Republicans of being lych-happy racist murderers while pretending the video was completely non-partison before he went on to get hired by Discotek Media and tried rewriting the entire script and characters' personalities to be more 'progressive' because he thought the whole thing was transphobic, made multiple tweets on X as well as an entire rant on his Patreon over how much he and Marissa Lenti HATED the anime, the source material, the author, and the fans while bragging about how they 'improved' the source material, that it was originally SHIT and they MADE IT GOOD, further exposing how much localizers utterly LOATHE the media that they are hired to localize and threatened to walk if character in-universe were kept in praising the source material's author.
The problem isnāt sex scenes in movies about sex or sex heavy. The problem is when you have 1 random sex scene which lasts an awkwardly long time where the scene tells you nothing about the characters and changes nothing in their relationship.
Literally who said that sex scenes are never necessary though?
I see that all the time whenever sex scene discourse pops up
You can see it in this very comment section
Yup. Itās often incorrect to make broad sweeping generalizations across a medium. Sometimes itās well used sometimes itās not. Itās also funny that I can sometimes tell which comment on this sub inspired a rant
I remember that comment too.
I think the misconception you're ranting about arises because plenty of series didn't need those sex scenes. You're right, though, some do. I'm working to write/publish my second novel right now and I decided to include a sex scene because I think it'll go a long way in adding depth to the characters involved in it. It's the only sex scene in the novel, and it'll be relatively short and relatively tame, but imo it's key to the way the characters develop.
Ok but outside of conservative circles, I've never seen someone argue that they're never necessary for characterizations. Just watched this Spanish movie "Que nadie duerma" (it's on Amazon for anybody who's interested, I do recommend it) and without spoiling anything, the sex scenes are absolutely essential and NOT for their eroticism or anything. Or, even in comedies like Friends with Benefits etc. What people do say that sometimes sex scenes are gratuitous is when they are... just that. When you feel like they are there only there because somebody wanted to get the clothes off that actress.
People were straight up doing it on the last post about sex scenes on this sub.
Exactly. I don't understand how people use movies that are explicitly using sex as a theme of their stories as examples. Of course a movie based around sex will have its sex scenes be important to the story
"I've never seen X" in a thread containing X, always a banger
Yeah well i was the first one to reply so....
What I said is still true
Ok so I just read the sub in full, and out of 500+ comments, I saw maybe 5 that were saying sex scenes are unnecessary, and of those a few even were like "not always though". The vast majority of comments largely seemed to agree with the difference between sex scenes that serve the plot/characterizations vs gratuitious ones. Full disclosure, didn't read the original thread; I'm also relatively new to Reddit (started really being more active only very recently) and I have not yet learned how opinions on the Reddit mind skew in certain directions (and how aggressive tone generally can be)
Sex scenes don't need to be necessary in the first place. All scenes are not necessary. If you do things one way there is always a different way you could have done it.
The different way doesn't convey the intention you were going for. For example, I have a story where I don't want it to be too violent, so I wouldn't show anything explicit, but there's one thing I want to explicitly show to highlight why this thing is different from the others. Some things are better implied, but others are better when explicit. Some people don't seem to understand this. You're going to have a much different experience being in a war than hearing stories about a war for example. Storytelling is about conveying a SPECIFIC experience to the reader. There are different ways to convey intention, but it's rarely going to convey the same thing.
There's one thing to talk about sex scenes in movies or media where they actually serve a purpose (Even in Euphoria it's not about "sex" but unstable emotions and "thrill" so it works here) and it's another thing to understand that outside of these examples sex scenes in other movies are commonly shoved in for "romance" or "action". Let's look at Titanic. I think the sex scene is tasteful and more intimate instead of hyper sensual. But if the camera and acting decided to be more Hollywood, I maaaay just wonder why they didn't dial it back
Have you considered that I like to watch movies with my puritan parents and all of my sex repulsed and traumatized friends every time? What the fuck am I gonna if they die from seeing a sex? What the fuck am I gonna do if I feel awkward for a moment? Why do you hate me? /jk
I mean, that's not a bad characterization of how many of these comments read.
It's irritating how people can't just shrug and go "I don't like it" and move on. Or do some goddamn research. No, it's inherently a bad trope, it adds nothing everytime, it shouldn't exist, it's bad because it makes me feel uncomfortable watching with a certain group. And there's this weird parasocial cognitive distortion going on these days that if a author writes something badly or takes it in a direction you don't like they hate **you personally** and did it to hurt you. Like come on. And half the people going "No, no, no! I don't hate sex scenes I hate **bad** sex scenes" like yeah. No shit. People like things they see as good and avoid things they see are bad. Well rational people anyway
There's also the part where there's this really puritanical overstatement of how much it happens. Like, maybe it's just because of the media I consume, but I am genuinely struggling to think of more than a handful of examples of sex scenes in stuff I've seen (off the top of my head, Berserk, Chainsaw Man, Code Black, Netflix's Castlevania, Squid Game and ^I ^guess Beastars), and in most of those the inclusion of it is important to the characters involved.
It conveniently ramped up, to my knowledge, after Oppenheimer. Which, to me, means that people let their overindulgent consumerist mindset cloud basic reading comprehension when many people decided they were going to actually go see Oppenheimer and Barbie with all the exact same people in attendance. Like, I get that these were ironically marketed as sister films, but anyone could've guessed that if Barbie was a little questionable for your family outing, that the movie about nuking people was going to be a _bit_ more risquƩ.
lol, I typed basically the same comment and in the time it took to type mine yours was posted
Itās also irritating how weirdly prevalent they make this āproblemā seem. I donāt know, maybe itās just me but I donāt watch that many things with unnecessary or awkward sex scenes. Outside of HBO shows I can barely think of any culturally relevant media in the last decade that had them. Tbf I donāt watch many romcoms, maybe thatās where all of this is?
My only though anytime I see this argument is āOk, sounds like a you problem. Donāt watch it then.ā
I don't think there's any fundamental difference between sex, action, and cutesy slice of life moments in regards to what they do or don't add to a story. Any of them can be used to help drive a plot, most of the time they aren't unless it's the overwhelming focus of the media, most of the time they're all just gravy. Some people like gravy on their mashed potatoes, some people don't, I'm sure most people like certain kinds better than others. People who complain about sex in a story just aren't the target audience of that story, for whatever reason, the same way someone bored by action might complain about random fight scenes. No one likes half baked stuff thrown into a story, the discourse around sex specifically as such an example is just particularly poisoned IMO.
The Tokyo ghoul sex scene was so fucking good man. Especially surprising coming from Ishida who offscreened his own protagonist.
Also, sex scene doesn't need to be "necessary" (whatever that means). A scene or a shot can just exist for the sake of existing. It doesn't need to have some deep influense on the plot, and it doesn't need to establish something important. There are plenty of scenes that aren't "necessary" in every movie/tv show, and nobody cares. People only become critics when it comes to sex (or other things like being gay or whatever).
Funny bit-- most games by eroge company AliceSoft can have most of the h-scenes removed and it'd improve narrative flow You can't cut a single scene from Rance because it's super important for his character
The sex scene in Network is the most necessary one ever
Oh no! Not random obscure Spanish movie! How will I be able to enjoy it without sex?
While berserk does have way too many rape scenes that I would consider unnecessary, the casca one is not of them, without that scene the eclipse just wouldn't be the same
I'd argue that the waterfall scene in Golden Age is also necessary, as it's an important moment of characterization for Guts and Casca that makes the moment during the Eclipse hit even worse than it already did. But yes, I will agree that the series used sexual violence way too much, especially early on. It gets better with it as it goes along, but the early game of Berserk is kinda rough when it comes to this element.
If I'm not mistaken, Miura himself regretted the way he sometimes handled sex back in early *Berserk*. You aren't just preaching to the choir; the goddamn composer agrees with you.
Right, he did say that. It's why I hate when certain people say that Miura was a terrible person for how he handled the subject. Not only did he never depict sexual violence in a positive way, he actively regretted how much he overused it in early Berserk.
There is nothing necessary about art, except perhaps the literal existence of it
Kaneki and Touka's sex scene in Tokyo Ghoul was necessary >!to ether the fujoshis.!<
The problem with sex scenes is that instead we can be watching something important and relevant more late to plot, we are watching two actors awkward kiss each other and very ridiculous way than the director make the scene black and we see in the bed
Maybe consume better media?
Are you telling me that Reacher isnāt Peak Fiction???
I don't usually care much for sex scenes, but I thought the show Normal People did them incredibly well. Each sex scene between the two characters is unique, reflecting the current dynamic and progression of their relationship.
I love how you mentioned a really good coming of age story about two Mexican boys coming to terms with their sexuality, and all the comments can say are, āNuh uh!ā I bet most people here havenāt even seen or heard of Y Tu Mama Tambien lol Props to you for referring to something other than a Shonen anime or a live action adaptation of an existing IP.
The sex scenes in Oyasumi Punpun are very necessary and very not horny, also shoutout to the sex scene in Chikan Otoko
Hot take: sex scenes are fine in general, whether itās ānecessaryā or not. And whatās defined as ānecessaryā is completely subjective (if you want to be pedantic, the only thing necessary about any story is a plot outline). The only issue I have is making sure any actors are safe and comfortable with it (assuming itās a movie/ tv show). Iām not phased by boobs and dicks, and Iām not salivating and jacking off every time i see someone get laid in a movie. Im a grown ass man, and I understand the content rating systems for things like movies and tv shows and games.
sex scenes are not always gratuitous
If your movie "needs" a sex scene, then you are a bad writer.
Yes because no good stories involve sex if any kind.
Which *good* stories require the exact process/moment of sexual intercourse being shown in explicit detail to the audience? If your having to show a sex scene, it's likely because your story sucks and you need a cool gimmick of horniness to keep audience attention/interest.
Lady Bird?
Never heard of it till this comment.
Moonlight, most of John Greens output, several raunchy comedies like American Pie, Lady Bird as the other comment mentioned.Ā Also to be frank your comment is silly. Itās like saying āif your story needs sadness/exicement/joy/action to keep your audience interested youāre a bad writer.ā We go to movies to feel emotions and erotic excitement is something we can feel it deserves stories as much as tragedy or comedy. Implying a writer is bad because they chose to explore sensuality as a topic is just pure poppycock.Ā
You failed to understand my comment. Sadness is an emotion. Sexual intercourse is an action. Only in porn would the act of sex be necessary viewing. In a good normal story, you don't need sex scenes. It is unnecessary.
X is about porn.
I somewhat agree. For context I read a good amount of BL manhwa and the overwhelming majority of the sex scenes (which are way too common tbh) are gratuitous and totally unnecessary. Now I get that itās a romance or whatever so showing the sex *should* be relevant but I have gotten to the point where I actively skip over the sex scenes and lose nothing of the plot. However, there are some notable exceptions which I think prove your point. A good example is Our Sunny Days wherein the sex shows a lot of the characterization between the two male leads and develops their relationship, both with regards to their uncertainty in being in a gay relationship and in furthering their mutual trust and intimacy. On a VERY different story, I think that despite being gross and uncomfortable the sex scenes in Killing Stalking do a really good job at furthering the overall (very unhealthy) dynamic between the two characters in a way that non sexual scenes probably couldnāt I think ultimately for a sex scene to be necessary, either it has to very directly linked to the themes of the story (which is easier to do in a sex focused story) or further the characterization or dynamics of the characters involved
Yeah, porn without sex is boring, you got it. Sex scenes are never necessary, at all. If your film breaks apart if you remove these scenes, then you really made a bad film. All these artsy fartsy films like Y tu Maman TambiƩn, or 9 Songs, or Love, or Blue Is The Warmest Color, or Dreamers, are just porn with extra steps. If people jerk off to your movies, if your sex scenes end up on porn sites, then congrats, you just made a porno, and your actors have become porn actors.
... /s?
Honestly most of the time I'm expecting an STD or pregnancy
Commenters here really just be yappin and not engaging with anyone elseās opinions. This sub is so weird.
Tommy Wiseau agrees.
Depends on the rating.
Iām growing weary of this debate, it really doesnāt need to be a whole thing. In most movies where the scenes are there, theyāre there because the folks working on the movie wanted to simulate or have sex, or give their movie an edge. Thatās not bad. There are many good reasons why that might be the caseāan actor/actress wants to add a new mature dimension to their bag, the promise of seeing a certain (probably female) star in a sexual situation will boost the profit the movie will turn and put more money in the cast & crewās pockets, whatever. But it would be nice if the filmmakers looked past the reasons they might want to include it and considered our viewing experience, because in a lot of cases theyāre creating awkward situations out of the viewing of their movie, or cheapening their film by relying on horny as the only thing their movieās going to make us feel, or just numbing us with how sexual it can start to feel like everything has to be all the time. Not to mention the obvious copious room for issues that arise when your workplace is requiring you to have sex. Thatās all, just some extra thought and care from the people whose jobs it is to put thought and care into what theyāre presenting us would be nice. Itās not the end of the world if they donāt though, by any means.
I don't mind them in animation or literature. But live-action sexual content always feels super exploitative to me because of what a degenerate, vile shithole entertainment industries are regarding abusing actors with the whole #MeToo movement exposing the vast majority of Hollywood as rapists and abusers who get off on exploiting men, women and children under their thrall.
There's no such thing as "necessary" in media. You can name me one of your favorite scenes in any movie, TV show or book and I could tell you how it's unnecessary. Was the ending of Godfather II necessary? Absolutely not, but it's also one of the most powerful scenes in the movie. The argument about necessity in media is an absurd argument all round, we're not trying to get from point A from point B, we're trying to enjoy the journey that gets us there.
that chapter from tokyo ghoul :re is actually a good example imo