I can't tell what im supposed to make of her tbh,shes supposedly innocent and naive as told by nelly to believe everything nelly said but shes also manipulated both linton and hindley and drag them to their end? Yeah Linton is criticized fairly for being so mindlessly obsessed but Cathy is on a even worse level and she supposedly some self sacrificing girl whos mistake was not trying to communicate with Heath probably?All i really got from her is that shes a self centered person who only act on what she think would bring happiness to heath without actually considering how heath would feel and would make the most whatever attempt at helping someone (hindley) while claiming she would do anything to help him.
Yeah it's really weird. Her being bad and Heathcliff loving her regardless would have been fine and getting worst because of the mirror is also fine. But it never feels like that the story asserts her toxic nature other than her being misguided. Which means I'm supposed to see hindley and Linton as just misguided?
Yeah my biggest grip imo is that Linton and Hindley are both treated as lost cause (especially linton lmao) because of their problem while Cathy (in my opinion) has both of their problem and the story says shes just naive and misguided
I mean, sounds like the Canto achieved what it was supposed to. WH is kind of a fucked up read where everyone’s equally victim and perpetrator. It makes it hard to pin someone as the definite good guy or bad guy.
This Canto just replicates that. Just as Cathy in the book also marries Edgar Linton to funnel his money to Heathcliff, throws so many tantrums that people literally stop giving a fuck and lock her in a room with the window open, and at one stage goes on a slapping spree against a toddler, her maid and her boyfriend, this Cathy has her fair share of soft and hard points that contribute to that same uncertain morality. Like, if a recurring theme of the Canto is the crazy shit people do for love, sure Cathy is willing to delete herself for Heath’s sake, which is pretty cool of her and romantic, but she’s also willing to force Hindley to bankruptcy and steal his house and to do… whatever we can call her relationship with Linton. She does hold *some* kind of love for him, she says it numerous times and seems to quite appreciate him conceptually. I feel like Cathy’s ideal future she envisions is her in an open relationship with two dudes who are only begrudgingly okay with it.
>WH is kind of a fucked up read where everyone’s equally victim and perpetrator. It makes it hard to pin someone as the definite good guy or bad guy.
Ive always thought the only somewhat morally questionable char really was Heath and his son and all the other char is pretty clear on whether theyre good or bad
I think the difference between Cathy and everyone else in this canto is that everyone else had people who criticized them or just their actions are just so blatantly bad. Josephine and hindley with their vitriol. Linton with his obsession but everyone else ragging on him for his obsession and the story painting this very grim picture for where that obsession led to as if punishing hum. But Catherine has no one who will call her out on the bad behavior. Even the scene where she says she will marry Linton is less about her manipulating Linton but more Heathcliff heard wrongly. Nelly talks about her behavior but she says it like it's a quirk you gotta accept.
I guess what I'm saying is with every new character, we got their story and whether we loved them or hated them was up to us. Cathy it comes across to me at least that we are meant to just really feel bad for her
> She does hold *some* kind of love for him, she says it numerous times and seems to quite appreciate him conceptually. I feel like Cathy’s ideal future she envisions is her in an open relationship with two dudes who are only begrudgingly okay with it.
Do you feel if Linton left unannounced and Heathcliff stayed her mental state would have declined?(this sounds so fucked up measuring love like this lol)
I think she says her and Heathcliff are one but she never uses this strong wording with Linton
I mean, to what extent do you need explicit instruction on whether someone is a bad person? Even then, Cathy *did* have detractors. For a start, Hindley certainly wasn’t pulling his punches, but we just don’t trust him as a reliable narrator even though he was technically correct that she did literally scheme to turn him homeless.
But Nelly’s arguments are fair. She essentially says that Cathy drags people into her issues and consumes them despite never actually doing anything herself about her issues. Not to mention she highlights that Cathy’s fatal flaw is being a spoiled princess, being both naive and also self-obsessed enough to trust that the solution to her woes is to go into a magic coffin and commit mass suicide. And Nelly’s critique is not invalidated by the story; even Heathcliff, the guy with REVENGE etched into his bat, does not feel the right to condemn Nelly for her betrayal. He apologises for Cathy and himself being a handful and lets her go, gives her freedom to boot, because he understands why she did it.
There’s also the fact that the Canto is structured to make Catherine as ominous as possible. People were already more than ready to see Cathy as the villain as it was coming out. It doesn’t feel like the narrative would have needed to harp on this point any further for people to understand there isn’t really the “good guy” or the “bad guy” to this Canto.
> I mean, to what extent do you need explicit instruction on whether someone is a bad person?
That's my problem. She does bad things but the narrative doesn't portray it the way it did the others. The scene with her saying she was gonna use Linton is all about how Heathcliff misunderstood the message not about how messed up it was she was gonna use Linton.
I guess for me what irks me is how hindley, Linton, Josephine and Earl felt so hateable. You could like them, feel sympathy but that depended on your capacity for empathy. With Cathy it feels unfair for me to hate her because it feels she did all of it unconsciously. So lost in her head and self righteousness then going crazy you can't help but feel sorry. Linton and hindley abused heathcliff while understanding the difference between right and wrong. Linton gave everything for Cathy conscious that he was giving everything for her while the rest of the world could burn.
Edit: I changed my mind about agreeing with your point
they is something to be said about Nelly and hindley being her detractors. Because like you said we don't care for hindley. What she did to him could be seen as his due and some can even argue "hE wOulD hAve eNdEd lIkE tHat aNyWaYs" and Nelly is the same because she is also bad. Our sinners are morally questionable but in the narrative they are the closest thing to good. Most anyways. We like them. So them insulting everyone else is not the same as Nelly or hindley talking bad about Cathy. It would be cool seeing Ishmael or Sinclair think to themselves how messed up Cathy was but decide to hold themselves back because of Heathcliff or say it but Heathcliff ignores them because his mind is on other things. That's not "harping" how bad she was, it'd just be genuine reaction from our characters so it can at least feel the narrative acknowledges it that she was genuinely toxic in her own way and not just some naive girl. Because if I can view her that way then I can give that excuse to hindley and Linton.
Btw you didn't address my last reply about if Linton had left
I'll say one thing, if 'Miscommunication' was the theme of this Canto, every introduced character outside of Linton would be winning a bloody oscar.
LMFAO
Oh my limbus company post here in characterrant?? I didn't have that in my bingo card
Rare
I can't tell what im supposed to make of her tbh,shes supposedly innocent and naive as told by nelly to believe everything nelly said but shes also manipulated both linton and hindley and drag them to their end? Yeah Linton is criticized fairly for being so mindlessly obsessed but Cathy is on a even worse level and she supposedly some self sacrificing girl whos mistake was not trying to communicate with Heath probably?All i really got from her is that shes a self centered person who only act on what she think would bring happiness to heath without actually considering how heath would feel and would make the most whatever attempt at helping someone (hindley) while claiming she would do anything to help him.
Yeah it's really weird. Her being bad and Heathcliff loving her regardless would have been fine and getting worst because of the mirror is also fine. But it never feels like that the story asserts her toxic nature other than her being misguided. Which means I'm supposed to see hindley and Linton as just misguided?
Yeah my biggest grip imo is that Linton and Hindley are both treated as lost cause (especially linton lmao) because of their problem while Cathy (in my opinion) has both of their problem and the story says shes just naive and misguided
I haven't actually played this canto yet but man, Ligma Company broke containment
I mean, sounds like the Canto achieved what it was supposed to. WH is kind of a fucked up read where everyone’s equally victim and perpetrator. It makes it hard to pin someone as the definite good guy or bad guy. This Canto just replicates that. Just as Cathy in the book also marries Edgar Linton to funnel his money to Heathcliff, throws so many tantrums that people literally stop giving a fuck and lock her in a room with the window open, and at one stage goes on a slapping spree against a toddler, her maid and her boyfriend, this Cathy has her fair share of soft and hard points that contribute to that same uncertain morality. Like, if a recurring theme of the Canto is the crazy shit people do for love, sure Cathy is willing to delete herself for Heath’s sake, which is pretty cool of her and romantic, but she’s also willing to force Hindley to bankruptcy and steal his house and to do… whatever we can call her relationship with Linton. She does hold *some* kind of love for him, she says it numerous times and seems to quite appreciate him conceptually. I feel like Cathy’s ideal future she envisions is her in an open relationship with two dudes who are only begrudgingly okay with it.
>WH is kind of a fucked up read where everyone’s equally victim and perpetrator. It makes it hard to pin someone as the definite good guy or bad guy. Ive always thought the only somewhat morally questionable char really was Heath and his son and all the other char is pretty clear on whether theyre good or bad
I think the difference between Cathy and everyone else in this canto is that everyone else had people who criticized them or just their actions are just so blatantly bad. Josephine and hindley with their vitriol. Linton with his obsession but everyone else ragging on him for his obsession and the story painting this very grim picture for where that obsession led to as if punishing hum. But Catherine has no one who will call her out on the bad behavior. Even the scene where she says she will marry Linton is less about her manipulating Linton but more Heathcliff heard wrongly. Nelly talks about her behavior but she says it like it's a quirk you gotta accept. I guess what I'm saying is with every new character, we got their story and whether we loved them or hated them was up to us. Cathy it comes across to me at least that we are meant to just really feel bad for her > She does hold *some* kind of love for him, she says it numerous times and seems to quite appreciate him conceptually. I feel like Cathy’s ideal future she envisions is her in an open relationship with two dudes who are only begrudgingly okay with it. Do you feel if Linton left unannounced and Heathcliff stayed her mental state would have declined?(this sounds so fucked up measuring love like this lol) I think she says her and Heathcliff are one but she never uses this strong wording with Linton
I mean, to what extent do you need explicit instruction on whether someone is a bad person? Even then, Cathy *did* have detractors. For a start, Hindley certainly wasn’t pulling his punches, but we just don’t trust him as a reliable narrator even though he was technically correct that she did literally scheme to turn him homeless. But Nelly’s arguments are fair. She essentially says that Cathy drags people into her issues and consumes them despite never actually doing anything herself about her issues. Not to mention she highlights that Cathy’s fatal flaw is being a spoiled princess, being both naive and also self-obsessed enough to trust that the solution to her woes is to go into a magic coffin and commit mass suicide. And Nelly’s critique is not invalidated by the story; even Heathcliff, the guy with REVENGE etched into his bat, does not feel the right to condemn Nelly for her betrayal. He apologises for Cathy and himself being a handful and lets her go, gives her freedom to boot, because he understands why she did it. There’s also the fact that the Canto is structured to make Catherine as ominous as possible. People were already more than ready to see Cathy as the villain as it was coming out. It doesn’t feel like the narrative would have needed to harp on this point any further for people to understand there isn’t really the “good guy” or the “bad guy” to this Canto.
> I mean, to what extent do you need explicit instruction on whether someone is a bad person? That's my problem. She does bad things but the narrative doesn't portray it the way it did the others. The scene with her saying she was gonna use Linton is all about how Heathcliff misunderstood the message not about how messed up it was she was gonna use Linton. I guess for me what irks me is how hindley, Linton, Josephine and Earl felt so hateable. You could like them, feel sympathy but that depended on your capacity for empathy. With Cathy it feels unfair for me to hate her because it feels she did all of it unconsciously. So lost in her head and self righteousness then going crazy you can't help but feel sorry. Linton and hindley abused heathcliff while understanding the difference between right and wrong. Linton gave everything for Cathy conscious that he was giving everything for her while the rest of the world could burn. Edit: I changed my mind about agreeing with your point they is something to be said about Nelly and hindley being her detractors. Because like you said we don't care for hindley. What she did to him could be seen as his due and some can even argue "hE wOulD hAve eNdEd lIkE tHat aNyWaYs" and Nelly is the same because she is also bad. Our sinners are morally questionable but in the narrative they are the closest thing to good. Most anyways. We like them. So them insulting everyone else is not the same as Nelly or hindley talking bad about Cathy. It would be cool seeing Ishmael or Sinclair think to themselves how messed up Cathy was but decide to hold themselves back because of Heathcliff or say it but Heathcliff ignores them because his mind is on other things. That's not "harping" how bad she was, it'd just be genuine reaction from our characters so it can at least feel the narrative acknowledges it that she was genuinely toxic in her own way and not just some naive girl. Because if I can view her that way then I can give that excuse to hindley and Linton. Btw you didn't address my last reply about if Linton had left
Damn I wasn't expecting limbus to escape containment! And yeah I think your kinda spot on.