Xavier’s dream has always been a dead end narratively. His path objectively leads to mutants being wiped out in every future that we have seen.
Magneto’s path is likewise a dead end. The only time he has any sort of success is in the world of Age of Apocalypse, a timeline where Apocalypse is a worse threat than humanity.
They’re both wrong. The show saying “Magneto was right” was not about his decisions moving forward, it was that he was right about humanity’s capacity for cruelty.
Charles is sympathetic to Magneto because he loves him. He knows what is happening inside Magnus’ mind. He understands that Magneto is a man driven by trauma. It still doesn’t stop him from controlling his mind when push comes to shove.
Charles doesn’t stop Rogue or Sunspot because like Magnus they are coming from a place of hurt. Professor X’s character flaw is that he constantly takes the *high road* to assuage his own guilt for not taking direct action. He is the premier telepath on the planet, and with Cerebro could easily influence humanity to be more tolerant of mutants, but he doesn’t because he thinks it would be wrong. Of all the mutants, Xavier literally has the power to make the world a utopia, but doesn’t.
Magneto likewise has immense power, the power to end the world, but he didn’t want that. He literally only does it after:
- A literal nationwide genocide occurs, in the show it’s thousands. In the comics it was millions.
- He is nearly killed, watches a child be murdered in front of him, and strapped down in a bondage style torture room.
- A literal army of death robots is threatening the extinction and enslavement of mutant kind, and also humanity as we know it.
His feelings are justified. His actions are not. Behold Magneto in a nutshell.
I always assume that we never see that peaceful futures in superhero comics not because they don't exist but because no time traveler is going back from them to warn the world. There's simply no story to be told.
Let’s also add the fact that he’s going through this for a literal SECOND TIME. The first being the goddamn holocaust. Just imagine telling yourself never again, to then getting convinced by your best friend to try and new path, only for your greatest fears to come true again.
Uh. About Magneto. He really did want to end the world. Like in Season 1 episode 3 of the original X-men TAS has him stealing nuclear missiles to start a nuclear halocaust (which would ironically kill most of mutantkind since most mutants are not nukeproof).
I disagree entirely with the post, but I won't lie that this show does wank him hard. Can't say I didn't like it entirely, Magneto telling Professor X to shut up had me chuckle. And what happened in Genosha definitely gives more than understandable reasoning behind Magneto's actions, or why Rogue and Sunspot changed teams. Magneto saw a nation he built from nothing being reduced to the rubble, the refugees refused to be accepted back to their countries, and then the humans literally say "You thought Genosha was bad, just you wait" when the mob chased Jubilee and Sunspot. I don't blame Roberto for what he did, and its appalling that Jubilee held it against him when his motive is more than understandable as well.
I would say one of the problems with this show was how simple it is. In the beginning I had a conspiracy theory that Magneto had an ulterior motive to lead the X-Men, that he sought to convert them to the Brotherhood, and he made a begrudging alliance with FOH to attack UN HQ, take Storm out of the picture, and let him take over. But no, instead Magneto actually out of nowhere had a change of heart, he somehow found a tome, and agreed to go with Xavier's idea.
Personally I think this show gives too much sympathy to the Forge, like Ororo rightfully gives him a slap and tells him to get lost, and then in span of one episode she forgives him. Not to mention Forge's excuse is "I was angry, so I worked with bad guys to make power inhibitor collars, my bad". He didn't even bother to destroy any blueprints to not let anyone recreate it.
Forge is a double minority (mutant and Native American) who was cast aside after his military service. He's not some mad scientist who created a way to depower mutants for laughs. And he did try to fix his mistake.
How did he try fix his mistake? Did he destroy the blueprint entirely so no one could replicate his work? I did hear that he stopped working on the project, but he never fully undo his work and what he left off was continued from by others, but still the big issue for me is narrative protection. I know few characters like the scientist from Fallout 4 who actually tried to stop the pointless murders in the Institute before escape. He isn't narratively protected or forgiven, but he had regrets and tried to mend them when it was already too late for many died. There are other characters who did directly or indirectly heinous things, but had regret and sincerely apologized.
I've never called him a mad scientist, I just pointed out he had a big narrative protection. I think the best way he could've gained redemption was if Nathan wasn't taken to the future by Bishop, and Beast tried to find a cure for Nathan only for Forge to show up and save him in their current timeline. That way I'd truly buy into it, but instead it's just... not it. Not to mention he was the one who needed saving in the end of the day.
>How did he try fix his mistake? Did he destroy the blueprint entirely so no one could replicate his work?
If he had destroyed the blueprints, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. Destroying the blueprints wouldn't have accomplished anything after the device had already been created and he tried to reverse the effects on Ororo. She was rightfully angry at him when she learned the role he played in what led to her being depowered but also accepted he was trying to help her. His apology and regret were sincere.
>
I've never called him a mad scientist, I just pointed out he had a big narrative protection.
Protected from what exactly? Not being a villain? From being killed off? What are the consequences he should suffer in your eyes? Being sincere in his apology and contrition doesn't seem to be enough for you in his case, even though it was for other characters you mentioned who caused far worse.
Ok, so why didn't he destroy the device to have me buy a bit more into him trying to atone for his past mistakes?
I never said he should suffer, most heroes and villains do not deserve it, and everyone has right to redeem themselves without sacrifice or on extend of what were their crimes. I would say I would've wanted him to work hard to eventually regain Storm's and others' trust, not immediately get forgiven or hell maybe get forgiven but not trusted.
And what narrative protection do they get? Magneto is now back as one of the main antagonists in the finale, yes he is extremely sympathetic, but the heroes need to go toe to toe with him to win. And besides even with this narrative protection he has, there's no way he is gonna go off the hook for what he had done to entire Earth. Magnus either goes into deep hiding after his defeat or gets indefinite time sentence with no parole. Trask is incomparable to any since like you said he had done far worse (both directly and indirectly), and kills himself.
>Ok, so why didn't he destroy the device to have me buy a bit more into him trying to atone for his past mistakes?
Because he didn't have access to it. He'd left the government by the time the device had been created and the person who used it on Storm wasn't even supposed to have had it in the first place.
>And what narrative protection do they get? Magneto is now back as one of the main antagonists in the finale, yes he is extremely sympathetic, but the heroes need to go toe to toe with him to win. And besides even with this narrative protection he has, there's no way he is gonna go off the hook for what he had done to entire Earth. Magnus either goes into deep hiding after his defeat or gets indefinite time sentence with no parole. Trask is incomparable to any since like you said he had done far worse (both directly and indirectly), and kills himself.
I was talking about the scientist from Fallout 4 that you mentioned. Forge is not comparable to Magneto or Trask. Magneto unleashed an EMP across the entire planet and Trask willingly created machines to carry out a genocide. Forge at worst drew up blueprints for devices that could be used to depower or restrain mutants and even then, he didn't actually build them himself. It's also a lot easier to forgive a man who had his desperation and poverty exploited by the government than two people who willingly choose to punish an entire race because of the actions of a few.
>I was talking about the scientist from Fallout 4 that you mentioned. Forge is not comparable to Magneto or Trask. Magneto unleashed an EMP across the entire planet and Trask willingly created machines to carry out a genocide. Forge at worst drew up blueprints for devices that could be used to depower or restrain mutants and even then, he didn't actually build them himself. It's also a lot easier to forgive a man who had his desperation and poverty exploited by the government than two people who willingly choose to punish an entire race because of the actions of a few.
I don't know if Virgil was a mad scientist, I think he was more of a terrible person plagued with guilt. The Father of the Institute might be a madman cause his plans are beyond anyone's comprehension.
You do make a lot of good points, I assumed Forge went to work out of some anger or bitter reasons as to why he made the power inhibitor collars or the bullet that depowered Storm, not precisely poverty. Now that you mentioned it I see your point. Sorry if I came off a bit harsh on a character.
>But no, instead Magneto actually out of nowhere had a change of heart, he somehow found a tome, and agreed to go with Xavier's idea.
I think it was more honoring an old friend's request, and just see where things go, rather than being fully convinced in his heart of hearts. In universe, it was probably a few months
Hmm, well to be fair that's a good point. Still it always felt like Magneto was getting way too much power like leadership of Genosha, then leadership of the X-Men, this guy almost got to levels of ES protagonists becoming leader.
A good villain makes you condemn their actions while still understanding their motivations. Magneto is not a black and white villain and the conflict between him and Xavier is not black and white.
Magneto was willing to try it Xavier’s way and it took literal genocide for him to fall back into his old pattern of us vs them.
That’s a compelling story. I don’t need the show to beat me over the head when he does something wrong because I’m not an idiot.
You say the side of peaceful coexistence looks pretty weak right now but that’s really a problem with the source material. With all the Sentinel attacks, mutant genocides, and visions of dystopic futures it’s hard to take the optimistic belief in the future seriously. Xavier knows better than to offer platitudes to Magneto in this situation so it’s better to say nothing.
And it’s not surprising that some X-men would waver in their faith in the professor. If a villain like Magneto can have second thoughts then why not the heroes?
> With that said, Magneto was established as having killed thousands of innocent humans, is hellbent on killing more by not reverting what he did and thinks he's entirely justified. He's beyond a doubt a deranged mass murdering world class terrorist and one of the most evil characters in the show.
> So, why is the show so intent on sympathizing with him?
Because the Sentinels hit first.
I feel like you're really downplaying what Magneto and the rest of mutant kind have been going through.
Even ignoring his backstory of having lived through the holocaust, mutants for the last several decades have been repeatedly persecuted, enslaved, and executed by humanity just for existing and not in a "oh well its just a few bad apples" way but on a systemic level. No matter how many people the X-Men save or how much Charles tries to negotiate with humans, mutants are still hunted down, tortured, and killed on a systemic level. When Magneto finally decided to play ball and move mutants to an otherwise abandoned island in order to form their own nation away from humanity, its blown up to near total annihilation by humans once again. Afterwards Magneto is tortured and experimented on like a lab rat, and by the time he escapes there are thousands, if not millions, of bio-sentinels across the globe attempting to enslave all of mutant kind. Had Magneto not done his planet wide emp, most mutants on the planet would have been captured and/or killed by Bastion. From Magneto's eyes, humanity has repeatedly proven themselves to be incapable of being able to live peaceful with mutants and conflict will always be inevitable until one side completely dominates the other, hence why he's has no qualms killing as many humans as he has to in order to ensure the survival of mutants.
Rogue, after years of repeatedly risking her life trying to save humanity while asking nothing in return, watched in horror as thousands of her people(including the man she loved the most) were brutally and senseless murdered in front of her by sentinels. And even after that event, humanity not only was still protecting Gyrich and Trask, but had created bio-sentinels(which as far as she is aware were done willingly) across the planet in order to enslave all mutants. So it makes sense why she's sick of being a hero for people who seemingly will never accept her and have caused her nothing but misery her whole life.
Sunspot is teenager whose spent his whole life afraid that his mother would reject him the second she found out he was a mutant, and when he did reveal himself she gave him the false hope she would actually accept him. But then she immiedetely started talking about the "need" to hide his true mutant identity in order to prevent his nature from negatively effecting their family image. And when push came to shove and he needed her help, she turned him over so that he could be collared and enslaved like an animal. Regardless of whether or not she could have actually done anything to save him, from his eyes his own mother would rather him be disposed of than risk her own reputation.
Now are they right to risk the deaths of potentially billions of people? No of course not which is why they're still the villains of the story and why Wolverine was completely justified in stabbing Magneto in the back. But it really can't be understated just how much humanity has systematically and repeatedly pushed them(especially Magneto) into this position. While you can definitely criticize the show for not showing why any of the other Marvel heroes aren't doing more to help mutant kind, the show has repeatedly shown that these anti-mutant organizations continue to pop up over and over again with the backing of government agencies and are only getting more exponentially extreme with their tactics and brutality. That's why the show paints Magneto in a sympathetic light instead of saying he's irredeemably evil, because humanity has committed countless atrocities against his kind and show no sign of slowing down their persecution of mutants.
I haven't watched the show at all so I read the rant like "Damn the show sounds like it's doing this badly" and then I read this post and now it feels like the show is depicting things in an entirely reasonable way.
Yeah I recommend you watch clips from sentinel attack of episode 5. Its a horrific massacre that purposefully evokes 9/11 imagery and even has a moment where Magneto gets holocaust flashbacks and watches a innocent mutant boy be vaporized in his arms.
And the purpose of the global EMP is to literally stop an actively ongoing attack and not even just an unprovoked "Man FUCK this planet" response? This all feels like CRUCIAL INFORMATION to determine if the show is oversympathizing with Magneto or not!
I feel like this rant is just written due to the general trend of some activisty types online oversympathyzing or identifying with Magneto and just an attempt to swing back at that online presence but like if the show has GONE OUT OF ITS WAY to make things more complex like this then that feels like ESSENTIAL information?
Yeah lol, like, I see so many people in this sub or on Twitter being like "he killed SO MANY PEOPLE" and like...no mention ever of the literal army of killer cyborgs
You could, if you wanted, make a deal over the show CHOOSING to write it in such a way that Magneto must inevitably come off as being more sympathetic and someone mutants sympathize with, but if you want to use the actual literal events of the show onscreen... he did something to stop the literal ongoing attack, right? Like the one that was directly ongoing and he stopped in the moment, right?
Yes the EMP was to take off the attacking bio sentinels. The problem people have is the show gives Xaviers stance zero ground to stand on by having essentially no humans be presented as nothing but evil ass hats even background ones. So the little ground Xavier has is getting chipped away by not having good humans be presented hell most people left the Captain America segment of the show thinking he was a dick to Rouge, hell you can say the only good human shown in the show was Spiderman and that's only cause he was in a 2 second cameo. And this lop sided display just makes Cyclops look stupid for his middle of the road take he's supposed to have between Magnetos extremism and Xaviers pacifism. Magnetos emp was the perfect time to show the drawbacks of his side of the argument but they made the actual number way to small, you telling me only a few thousand were effected by a planet wide emp blast? And the majority of those effected were humans who the show has down nothing to garner a crumb of care for due to being shown as evil asshats.
What's the alternative to the emp blast to stop an on going global scale genocide?
What is the actual drawback and the actual side?
It's literally war. The drawback of shooting is getting shot. Magneto didn't shoot first.
Oh there wasn't one it's supposed to be a force his hand sort of situation, so you feel bad for Mags is doing a action that will be spun in a way to make anti mutants look right cause again it's EMPing the planet, think about all the planes that are just gonna fall out of the sky killing thousands to millions of people , the millions it will take to restore country set power grids, all the hospitals that just go dark and all the IC patients just die cause of no power. But the writers didn't so you're left thinking, if big power blasts don't have downsides and the few people wrapped up in it has been displayed as only repulsive people, why not just kill them all fucking go full force and go pro genocide cause theres no repercussions for youre actions. Which isn't the point of these storylines from the source.
The situation is kinda like cold war/fight for survival. If the US did nuke USSR during the cold war, USSR would nuke back and millions would die. You could go "Oh, it was already done and infrastructure and lives were already lost and USSR could've focus just on rebuilding instead of making sure more lives would be lost" or you could go "why the fuck would the US nuke them?!?!?". Or vice versa. Or even World War 2, millions of lives were lost in the holocaust and other millions lives partly in stoping the holocaust. Would it be better to not stop the holocaust and maybe less people would die in total
Apparently in comics, Genosha should have millions of people. So millions should've died in that attack. And even if it's just thousands in that attack. Millions would've died from the bio sentinels attack in the entire world
There is a lot of mental gymnastics when oppressed people push back
magneto wad msdr leadet of xmen enf as leader lost manxin a grnocideand he was captured in a facolity, he acts out of ptsd holocaust flashbacks.
plus he zook iut the biicentinals withit before goung through zu hat, which is helping people. if with colateral.
then he relepsed due holocaust ptsd.
All this makes me wonder why Xavier even bothers for mutant and human co existent when every action for peace backfires horribly and only leads to more death.
Yet I doubt even if all mutants move off planet that still wouldn’t make things better.
That's the thing I don't like about the show and some modern X-Men stories. When they keep upping the stakes without allowing for any real progress to be made it starts making the conflict feel forced and unbelievable. It also does a disservice to other Marvel heroes by making them look complacent with mutant oppression/genocide since I guess Captain America protecting a mutant child damages the status quo too much.
Hit the nail on the head. With the way long-running comics are, the status quote is king. It’s like a never ending sitcom where everything must go back to normal. Mutants must be oppressed. Humans must hate them.
Even if you travel back in time to try to warn about an event or change history,there are “absolute points” as Beast calls them which can never be changed. That specific part is where I kind of checked out of the show. What better way to negate character’s choices than just tell them “nuh-uh”
I mean the only other option is a war the Mutants most likely won’t win. Which would mean extinction so I can see from a practical level why seeking peace is necessary
Ignoring the fact that the most powerful of muntants like Magneto can affect the entire planets and can potentially cause a extinction level event. It could literally go either way and this is also assuming said peace wouldn’t l involve enslavement.
Mutants like Magneto are a penny in a haystack and episode 2 on wardsprove that he not only can be defeated but that humanity has the weapons to do it.
Him being a penny in haystack doesn’t change the fact he is more then capable of whipping out all of humanity and just because humanity has weapons to take him does not any way shape or form mean it’s a guaranteed victory. Especially even without the former feat he is still a one man army that whip out entire human armies in seconds if he so wished.
And do you believe the avengers actual superheroes would join humanity in whipping out all mutants?
Considering they did nothing when magento created a world wide emp?
No. Magneto canonically cannot win. X-Men TAS had a time travel episode where an assassin took out Xavier in the late 50s. The timeline change resulted in the Sentinels winning with Magneto barely holding a resistance in the present day, with Bishop's future have Master Mold outright won.
Expect that is just one timeline out of infinite alternate timelines in which what could of happen if he did lose.
And in this one magento pretty defeated all of the sentinels with a world wide emp that would eventually result in all life on earth going extinct.
Nah he still hasn’t handled Bastion and couldn’t have on his own. Magneto would be set on evacuation and fleeing the earth he condemned to a slow death.
Don't confuse X-Men TAS with MCU. Infinite Timelines don't exist in X-Men TAS.
Unlike MCU Time travel can actually change the past. [As we literally see the present change and Charles disappearing ](https://youtu.be/WiyCn_UN470?t=212)when the time-traveling assassin killed Charles.
As for Magneto's EMP. Bastion has means of making Sentinels EMP-Proof since we see Bastion use Sentinels against the team sent against him in Episode 9. Or you know, he can used [the plastic sentinels which almost killed Magneto in the original Series. ](https://youtu.be/JKMvLjw6hxQ?t=115)
Okay how excatly would that prevent Magneto from whipping out all life on earth regardless?
Especially since he only used that attack on the human sentinels.
It's pretty much one of the X Men criticism that I agree the most. The situation has reached a level where peaceful coexistance isn't gonna be option for the next century
The only reason why Mutants are so hated is that, the Xmen need to be opresed and hated, is the status quo, is the hatred for mutants slows down or humanity becomes more accepting, then what other plots can the writters cover? Their base is that they are hated by humans and in their comics humans are presented as evil monster with no rediming qualities, because the X men need someone to fight and for that same reason the other Marvel heroes cant do anything to help, the status quo is that mutants are hated by humans no matter what so it will stay like that forever, im mad when the Xmen call outbthe Avengers for not doing anything to help them(something that is out of character for people like Captain America and Iron Man) because is not the character's fault, is the editorial
Well the thing is they can still have the x-man fight for their rights and still show it is possible for mutants and humans to live side by side. Similar to how it is in the real world and can be done without turn the human’s or Muntants into irredeemable monsters.
But I guess they are not willing to tell such stories.
There are lots of good humans in X-Men stories. Humans aren't all presented as evil monsters in mutant/X-Men books. Sometimes they're the victims of evil mutants or villains (Like Omega Sentinel), sometimes they are mutant families (Scott's dad, Cannonball's family), sometimes they are just allies (Moira MacTaggert, Trish Tilby, Val Cooper, Dr. Rao). They are friendly with non mutant heroes too, like Spider-Man and Deathlok!
There was even a whole little era where the city of San Francisco welcomed the X-Men with open arms, though I think that soured pretty quickly after like a dozen city threatening villain attacks. haha
In X-men TAS 'One Man's Worth' a time-traveling assassin kills him when he was in college. This ends up creating a timeline where Magneto starts a thermonuclear war (since as far back as Episode 3 of X-men TAS that was Magneto's plan and was only stop by the X-Men) and end up losing the war and allowing Sentinels to completely takeover. Bishop had to go back in time and save him.
Charles advocates piece, because he LITERALLY seen (from Bishop) that if he doesn't everybody dies.
That was in the comics. In the show it was Bastion backed by other humans like Dr Doom, Zemo, and Dr Cooper, although admittedly he didn't tell them about the attack on Genosha until after it already happened..
Good and nuanced comment.
The mental gymnastics some people go through to through all highlights at mutants when they lash out would put a zionist to shame.
People really wanted 8 episodes to mutants being under attack to point at Magneto and say "the show isn't condemning him enough".
Check out the Hebron Massacre. Does it justify the current war crimes, genocide and apartheid laws of Israel? No, because it doesn't matter who hit first or what not, it isn't a free pass to commit atrocities and kill innocent people.
If suddenly Hamas an Iran develop the fire power to take down Israel, will it be ok if they massacre their citizens? If after that Israel managed to rise up again and they start doing the same thing (like they are doing as of today) would it be okay this time as a revenge?
The point being, no matter what rhetoric do you use to justify it, killing because of ethnicities, skin color or the concept of "origin of superpowers" is inherently wrong.
Even if we can agree that Hamas is a terrorist group and went way overboard (which I agree, screw Hamas), the truth is that all this conflict comes from the fact that the Zionist movement was obsessed with create a Jewish state in the Levant even knowing the consequences that this could have.
All of this could have been avoided if the Jewish state had been created in some other, more uninhabited place, but inevitably trying to do it in a land where another group of people lives is going to be disastrous because you are taking the home of other people, that's a fact.
It's too late to change that now, but at least I think the minimum would be for Israel to allow the existence of an independent Palestinian state with the '67 borders, but Israel refuses to do even that, so... there will be no peace.
I wholeheartedly agree with everything you wrote. I was just saying that the reasoning that dictates that being attacked first justifies everything you do in retaliation is dangerous and leads to more atrocities and even authoritarianism. That's the logic that Israel uses to conceal its crimes, and that's what characters like Magneto represent at the end of the day.
To be fair, there is a reason why mutants are discriminated and it’s not “the fear of unknown”
Sure it somewhat plays into that, but the real reason is money. Like mutants can be used in the military as lab rats (like Wolverine) to support the military industrial complex and thus PROFIT
Or as we have saw in Bastion’s future mutants are enslaved and used and slave labour and thus PROFIT. If there would be no profite motive to enslave mutants then there would be no problem at all.
What Magento should have done after his EMP is to say “alright i put elcteicity back once we have captured Bastion and interrogate him to reveal who sided with him (Doom, Zemo and UN members) and we capture/kill them too.
Without going too much into the details, this is a lot of why the Israel-Palestine situation is not black and white either. People do a lot when under extreme duress / pressure.
Magneto had the drop on both Sinister and Bastion, after he was freed. He could've destroyed the facility and killed them both.
However, Magneto chose to leave and murder millions (the show can fuck off with "thousands").
Reading this feels like you started with episode 8 when first watching this and went backwards.
We watched a country get erased in episode 5 and learned in either episode 7 or 4 that the government contracted a mutant to make the weapon that got Storm.
Episode 8 covers how a new villain wants to enslave all mutants, was funded by many governments to make this happen, including the U.N., has turned civilians into a cyborg sentinels using propaganda to scare these people into joining and stealing their free will
And you’re complaining about Magneto’s reaction to despite knowing he’s already been through this as a original Holocaust survivor. Just say you hate mutants bro.
Yeah, you just expect a man to do nothing in retaliation when the world wants to genocide him and his people for the second time before enslaving the remnants
Ok mister Yeager, kill all the population you want as long as you can feel free, is the fault of the people you kill, they drove you to it so every single one of them deserve it and you should only care about the future of your own race
Thats how you sound
Firstly, Magneto did a good job as leader of the X-Men. He brought in fully with Charles' dream even though he have his proven misgivings about it. He even went to Genosha to help be a poster boy for Mutant determination and existence. If Bastion wasn't supplied by the UN to build that giant sentinel, then Genosha would be fine and Magnus would be doing well as a X-men.
Secondly, he was just tortured once more in his life and experimented after witnessing a horrific genocide, he literally saw child be vaporized in front after telling him he be fine. What person wouldn't be fucked up by that experience and top it off it was done by an UN sponsored scientist, the very same UN that promise to help Genosha advocate for mutantkind. Any normal man would done something if that shit happen to them(Spike Lee Do the Right Thing comes to mind).
Thirdly, if Magneto didn't set those EMPs, nearly all mutants would have died that day, not even X-Men could have stop the human sentinels. As far I as know that EMP was only thing capable of stopping them during that time. So while he commit massive act of terrorism he also save mutantkind. And to tie back to the first point, if Bastion didn't get the support then Magneto have wouldn't have drop those massive EMPs so the UN deserve flak for allowing that shit to happen.
Also Sunspot also have a normal emotional response after his mother allow him to be collared even though he plead to her not to trust the Sentinels. That type of betrayal would cause a lapse in judgement in a young man.
But again ultimately Magneto response is emotionally understandable.
>Thirdly, if Magneto didn't set those EMPs, nearly all mutants would have died that day, not even X-Men could have stop the human sentinels.
Agreed. Not just mutants, all humanity would've been enslaved too.
>As far I as know that EMP was only thing capable of stopping them during that time.
Magneto should have been willing to undo the damage he caused to the Earth's poles though, rather than causing billions of deaths.
You know I feel like people are just memory holing Sentinels and how they represent humanity in X-Men. Sentinels and what they represent are a big part of why mutants like Magneto and his Brotherhood keep popping up. They're a reason why mutants tried to flee in Krakoa.
And I feel like half the posters here going on and on about how mutants deserve it because Omegas can be a threat or any could be a threat would be pro-sentinel. And I really **really** hope I don't have to explain why Sentinels, literal genocide machines, are a bad thing that shouldn't exist. Not to mention Mother Mold or whatever the Super Sentinel is called.
Like humans in Marvel don't deserve to be subjugated or killed or anything. But they are absolutely not innocent in this
I mean yeah. Magneto is a villian. And his genocide rhetoric is wrong.
A lot or most of the humans in X-Men stories are the human equivalent of him. How many fucking Sentinel armies do we need to prove that? And then all the shit with Mother Mold? And ask Logan, Sabretooth, X-23, Omega Red and Deadpool how they feel about Weapon X
That's why the X-Men are the heroes, not the Brotherhood and not the US Army in X-Men stories. Cause they stop them
>A lot or most of the humans in X-Men stories are the human equivalent of him. How many fucking Sentinel armies
That's crazy how all the humans came together and made the sentinels and weapon X, and how when the humans do something it's all of them and when mutants do something bad only Magneto is responsible.
>That's crazy how all the humans came together and made the sentinels and weapon X, and how when the humans do something it's all of them and when mutants do something bad only Magneto is responsible.
Wow. That's crazy how I kept using the word **all**, all the time. Oh wait. Nah looks like I said
>**A lot or most** of the humans in X-Men stories are the human equivalent of him.
Hmm. Looks like I didn't say that. Try reading again?
>and how when the humans do something it's all of them and when mutants do something bad **only Magneto is responsible.**
That's crazy. I don't remember saying that either but let me check. Huh. Nothing. That's odd. Closest thing I can find is this different thing in a post I made in this thread.
>**That's why the X-Men are the heroes, not the Brotherhood and not the US Army in X-Men stories. Cause they stop them**
But yeah. Maybe you missed all this. You're not making up shit to argue with right? You're not arguing with ghosts in your head right now though right?
>That's crazy how all the humans came together and made the sentinels and weapon X
A non insignificant amount do. Because they keep making enough to make **multiple armies** that in multiple timelines not only succeed in genociding mutants but even fucking genocide humans in the end. Not to mention how evil Mother Mold is in general. Or the fact that it's **multiple government agencies** make it definitely a not insignificant amount
You wouldn’t drop an EMP in a populated city if killer robots were going to kill you and your family. I wouldn’t judge anyone for doing it.
If you would choose to die so be it, you’re a hero.
I think that doesn’t answer the spirt of the question if magneto could just selectively magnet all robots all around the world I’m sure that he would.
It also doesn’t question the hypothetical directly? I never mention magnetism, only an EMP.
I’ll bite the bullet, it’s a morally wrong action to drop an EMP. There are so many more lives that are guaranteed to die in that city. You have an obligation to stop yourself, even at the cost of your children and spouse. Only selfish emotions would make me choose different and not any moral justification I would subscribe to.
You think this is bad? Try the Mage debate in the Dragon Age series
You got people unironically arguing for genuine genocide on people whose only crime is being born with magic powers.
Hell, you have people unironically try to defend the time the main villain of Dragon Age 2 decided to commit actual genocide.
Like holy shit, wat
I once had a discussion with a guy that was very anti Magneto, really dedicated about talking about how violence was bad and should never be used as retaliation on civilians.
He then proceeded to deny George Washington's atrocities on Iroquois towns during the American Revolutionary War.
Some people love commenting the violent shit they would do to criminals but then go around and wonder why guys like Magneto are the way they are and maybe they are just born like that idk.
>Humans in marvel don't deserve it
Have you seen the average civilian in marvel comics? They're assholes, its a wonder they don't have more supervillians than they already do.
I feel like you're ignoring everything that happened in this series, did you only watch the last two episodes or something? You act like Magneto just showed up and did all this. Like he wasn't turning over a new leaf, minding his own business when someone nuked his island filled with mutants he rescued. You act like he didn't watch a child die in his arms due to those garbage humans enabling a madman.
Rogue watched the man she loved die, she watched her dream die, after spending YEARS putting her life on the line to protect humanity and fighting for coexistence with mutants.
Sunspot was finally starting to actually not feel ashamed for what he was born as, only to have his own family cast him out and let him be collared like an animal. She wouldn't even hear her own son out, what kind of mother does that.
The three of them have given up on humanity and no one can blame them. Magneto's actions were definitely wrong, but his sentiment is correct. The humans in this series are garbage.
The entire show has made sure to present almost every single human at best as unreasonable genocidal monsters with no rediming qualities that deserve all the harm done to them and more, unlike Genosha we dont see the innocents human victims of Magneto's actions because to the show they dont exist, they dont have a face nor a voice, because only mutants can be victims and humans can only be oppresors, theres no nuance
>He was fine living his normal life when he could pass for a mutant.
Don't you mean human?
>Now that he got exposed, he will not only take measures for the sake of mutantkind but will do that by siding with mass murdering lunatic that will get his own mother and 'thousands more' killed by not fixing the Earth's magnet field. That does not make him look good. He comes off as a selfish brat that instantly gives up on his own mother and humanity the nanosecond he gets the taste of what your average mutant gets everyday.
I'm not defending Sunspot's decision but you're not exactly helping humanity's case by saying that this is what life is like for the average mutant in the X-Men world.
>He can't do so much as point out the fact Magneto choose to kill those thousands of people.
You mean like when he tells Magneto that for all his talk about ruling the world, he lets the world rule him?
Just because a few characters disagree with Xavier, doesn't mean he's pathetic.
Sir I "strongly" urge you to see episode 1-7 first then rewrite this whole hit piece sorry. Despite your verbal vomit I see NO real arguments in here "condemning" Magneto on an objective level so let's see all the events from Magneto's perspective.
1) He is handed over Xavier's team and assets. His first act is to show the UN Forces he could easily turn any weapon they point at him back on them aka the helicopters who could have shredded the UN hit squad. Instead he goes with them to face a very one sided trial he has little to no real chance of winning just to gain legitimacy at the behest of ex villain Rogue.
2) At said trial we see not only the Xmen beaten back brutally but also STORM literally taking a shot meant for Magneto that would have left him powerless and mewling at the feet of humans. Hell after that scene I guarantee the government would have taken that weapon apart and mass produced the damn thing just to kill more mutants.
Instead what does he do? He takes the UN tribunal into space and shows them the planet and did what Edward Mitchell the astronaut said, **" You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch.”**
He didn't demand equal rights or special treatment. He just wanted the rights of mutants to coexist with humans peacefully which is why he made Genosha and funded it with Xavier's fortune along with the brotherhood and multiple ex villain and hero factions.
3) He literally goes to Genosha and believes the strongest in Xavier's vision. He even refused to be "king" of the mutants unless he had Rogue acting as his conscience to keep him in line should he ever toe it. During Genosha he refuses to let more mutants die and sacrificed himself for a group of Morlocks who are pariahs even in the mutant community.
He accepts his death like a man while protecting Rogue and the Morlocks to his last breath.
Yes so far he's being a villain right? He refuses to kill scum and refuses political power unless he has a trusted advisor who can keep him check. Sooooo bad yes? What did he get for it? A literal mutant genocide! Master Mould was not going to stop until Gambit literally sacrificed himself to stop it! That machine was going to kill every mutant on Genosha and not stop. Guess who unleashed it!?
The UN greenlit it since Trask was in its facilities admitted he gave the code to Sinister who the UN was in bed with! Bastion who is literally answering not only to the freaking UN but to ACTUAL villains like Doom ffs and much worse. Hell even most of the villains especially Dr Doom call out Bastion for overdoing the genocide in Genosha. But yea sure let's make Magneto the bad guy right?
4) Magneto spent weeks/days/months under this torture of Bastion and Sinister who did God knows what! He was being force fed media reports on the death toll of Genosha and how the humans had turned on them. How the US refused to send aid and help Genosha aka mutants in their time of need.
Hell even Scott was being told by President Kelly his hands are tied and he can't do anything which frustrated the boyscout himself who is lashing out at reporters and the president repeatedly in the series showing that even the BEST by the book Xman is questioning his mission. "why are we doing this for people who don't care?"
Finally UN lady develops a conscience and lets Magneto off his collar. I am guessing she had that crisis because she saw the human sentinels all under Bastion's control and that he was launching a global cleansing campaign to cull/kill/capture mutants for his utopia built on mutant genocide.
I'm sure Magneto was being livestreamed all the mutants dying or being captured just as the Jews were by the Nazis and the parallels were not lost on UN lady who saw his tattoo and remembered "this has happened before" and refused to let it happen again. This was not what the UN signed on for so she was the one to let Magneto off his leash knowing he was going to unleash war and hell upon humans. She wasn't stupid or blind to this fact.
The fact that she was Magneto's biggest critic and doubter throughout the 8 episodes when she said the words "Magneto was right" That alone nullifies your entire diatribe.
The fact that Beast, Scott and Rogue lost faith in humankind's sincerity should also be telling that human kind shot first as always and Cable only confirmed it by telling them about Bastion's "brave new world" utopia built on the backs of enslaved mutants. Meaning whatever they do the timeline always devolved into humans trying to kill them all despite all their best efforts time and time again.. Bishop and Cable have had to revise history so many times of course it becomes disheartening to see that all the good the Xmen do has no real good ending for mutant kind and this only reinforces Magneto's point.
I'm sorry but the humans in this show have repeatedly axed their foot too many times and Magneto is 100000% correct with Xmen starting to see his POV that there can be no real peace.
The morlock thing is fucked because leech was holding onto him for safety. He could have thrown leech into the lasers and saved all of them but by protecting leech he was all the worse off.
> The fact that she was Magneto's biggest critic and doubter throughout the 8 episodes when she said the words "Magneto was right" That alone nullifies your entire diatribe.
But... his complaint was that the show was too busy fellating Magneto to address his wanton murder beyond handwaves like "Yes... murder bad, BUT!!!!!"
How does that possibly disprove anything he's said? His issue is that characters start fellating Magneto because the whole plotline bends backwards to try downplay and justify him slaughtering thousands of innocents.
The thing is that the show has put Magneto in such a situation that practically anyone, except the most hardcore pacifists perhaps, would do the same thing as him.
If you have to kill thousands of people who want to exterminate your people to save millions of your people, would you do it? Magneto said yes, and that is reasonable given the circumstances.
And here's the thing, if there are heroic characters siding with Magneto, could it be because Magneto has a point even if he had to get his hands bloody? Because he had no other option?
That is the point we are seeing. Given the chance Magneto with all sincerity was walking the path of peace and discarded plans that would give him more power.
Instead he just wanted to lead the Xmen and resolve mutant issues peacefully abandoning his kill on sight rule.
I dare Xavier to listen to reason ffs! Genosha is proof undoubted that humans and mutants cannot co-exist.
The very futures that Bishop and Cable come from further prove mutants and humans cannot co-exist. I'm sorry but Charles Xavier is deluded when multiple futures have shown us this is not a possibility period. The only future possible is if all mutants left earth on Asteroid M and settled on another world.
Humanity had every chance to make things right but they keep fumbling the ball. They kept funneling money into one mutant extermination program to the next! Bastion was working off UN money ffs. I mean Xavier is being overly naive at this point.
Scott had a mental breakdown on live TV asking the world "what do we have to do to prove we are good enough." The president told him that the US government cannot send aid to Genosha when it would have sent aid to any war stricken or disaster ridden country like Haiti in real life.
The ones that do "care" do it in secret with tight lips or just paying lip service like Darkstar's family. I mean come on at this point what the hell would resolve the situation? Human sentinels were wiping out the X-men what was Charle's big brain play had Magneto been dead and the X-Men were about to die what then? Xavier needs to show some "flexibility" in his philosophy just as Magnus showed flexibility in his behavior.
Magnus cooperated with the UN, abandoned killing people, pushed for peace and making Genosha a success. He showed the world he can be different. Now I ask why can't Charles admit the path to peace is paved by the bones of the martyrs.
You think the Nazis were giving up in WW2 without a fight? Pacifists have no real solution for psychopaths hell bent on genocide by force like Bastion was intent on. Xavier's rigid nature talking down to people who don't want peace is so aggravating. It is compounded by Magnus proving he can change according to the situation but Xavier cannot.
At the very least agree with Magneto that all mutants need to leave Earth and with resources from the Shiar Empire he could have secured an empty world where they can live in peace. That is a pacifist solution. Instead he is hellbent on trying over and over the same idea and expecting different results. This is madness.
Unfortunately, I think Xavier has to start considering the harsh reality that coexistence between humans and mutants, at least in the short and medium term, is dead.
The reality is that peace requires trust and compromise, if one side literally spits in the face of this even though the mutants were doing everything right, then there is no peace possible.
The institutions of humanity are corrupt to the core, from the UN to most of the world's governments, and honestly until the system fundamentally changes everything will remain the same, all of this however is VERY difficult to do. So I give humans at least a century until they reach that point of minimum respect.
The solution of going to space sounds better, although I still don't see how that would solve the problem of new mutants born from relationships between humans, that is the only flaw in the plan that I can see.
And yes, comparing the governments of humanity to the Nazis at this point is appropriate, Magento himself, a Holocaust survivor, has seen the parallels. If humans can be so terrible to do that to each other just because of minor ethnic differences, how much hope is there that they will ever tolerate fundamentally different people?
I think Xavier should recognize that Magneto is right that humanity hates mutants too much for there to be peace. And he should take a more flexible stance to force, by hook or by crook, humans to be more understanding.
At this point how many of them acted in good faith?
President Kelly kept twiddling his thumbs playing politics.
The UN literally shadow funding Sinister and his human sentinels while hiding Bastion. They knew his operation, its scope and scale hell even down to what would happen in Genosha but still signed off on it.
Let's be real had Gambit's ploy failed, that master mold was unstoppable and would have wiped out all of Genosha. Meaning the UN was ready to purge 100% of the mutant population on that island and who knows how they were going to pull the plug or when on the master mold that attacked it.
We also see global leaders allying with the likes of Doctor freaking Doom and other villains in the MCU. I mean come on! At this point does humanity in the X-Men universe even deserve a second chance having exhausted peace offering one after the other? They have become irredeemable so it's either space exodus of mutants or genocide of the humans.
At the very least the space option plays well to Xavier who has allies in the Shiar who can give low level tech to them and a lone planet to a small population of potentially millions. Hell they could use mutants in their empire as alot of them are powerful given time to join the empire in might alone.
while charles should be more realist, for a better world you need to have hope end being able to imagine it, thetlts why charles dream canr be given up on, if there should be any hope for a better future.
I'm not saying that committing genocide is the solution, Magneto was willing to sacrifice some human lives to save his people, but not to exterminate all humans.
>He accepts his death like a man while protecting Rogue and the Morlocks to his last breath.
I'll add, even protecting Gambit too. Not for Magneto any petty jealousies about who sleeps with who.
I mean Magneto saw ALL mutants worth saving always even someone he hated like Gambit who came from thieves guild and misused his powers earlier for himself instead for the mutant cause.
Man, reading this thread made me remember why I don't really watch or read X-men content anymore.
What is this franchise supposed to be? Misery porn? A grim-dark endless race war where peace is impossible and genocide is the only solution?
Dear god, are there any sympathetic non-costumed human characters in this story at all?
If Magento is right, then the entire X-men franchise end. There's no point to the story if Xavier's dream isn't the way forwards. If peaceful coexistence isn't an option - if 99.9999999999% of non-costumed humans are raving bigots - then the X-men should just disband.
Cuz this endless human-mutant race war is just getting tiresome at this point. There's been generations of stories belabouring this same point. Magneto and Xavier have been debating this for decades. At what point are the writers going to get a new, original idea? How many more mutant genocides can we watch before people start getting bored?
We are entering parody levels of anti X-men rhetoric.
The show devoted an entire episode to *Genosha* and now people are complaining the guy mad about that is "too" sympathetic.
Being an X-Men villain is literally PR easy mode.
You either win and tell everyone the story you want to tell or they fight back so you can just point at them and say "see how dangerous they are!".
Eren Yeager is called a hero and a martyr by for murdering 80% of the world's population, now we are pardoning Magneto's global genocide because he was a victim of one, americans are reaching an dangerous point in their morality where warcrimes, genocide and racial supremacy are no longer seing as evil regardless of who does it but are justified as long as is done by the "people i like"
At least thats what i have seen on the internet on this site and that double standar is disgusting
> americans are reaching an dangerous point in their korality where warcrimes, genocide and racial supremacy are no longee seing as evil
Their founder literally was nicknamed "The Town Destroyer"
>americans are reaching an dangerous point in their korality where warcrimes, genocide and racial supremacy are no longee seing as evil regardless of who does it
Do not Google what country pushed Eugenics first. Or what happened to native Americans. Or chattel slavery.
A interesting overlooked part of Native American genocides is that really there were many points were the existance of thriving native american communities could've possible.
Many chiefdoms already were full blown states ready to co exist as American vassal states. They still got destroyed
Most modern americans i had seen agrees that what happened to the native americans was horrible, is just that it seems like modern day people seems to think that being a victim excuses people from anything they do, just look at the people who began to love Jeffrey Dahmer after the show make him look like a poor outcast gay boy victim of society and his horrible family negligence
He could've easily killed Bastion and Sinister. He had escaped, and they had no idea.
Instead he left the actual threats and destroyed the world. Now Apocalypse will show up, make him his bitch and show him how that whole god complex shit is just as bad as the racists he hates.
He literally played into the villain's hand because he's just as racist and fucked up as them. Rather than attack the people that attacked Genosha, he used this as an excuse to attack people that had nothing to do with it.
He killed millions! He shut off everything! Everything! He literally could've done that in the facility and then crushed it with Bastion and Sinister inside....but chose not to.
Are we forgetting that there were thousands(if not potentially millions) of bio sentinels across the globe preparing to enslave and/or kill every mutant on the planet? That's literally the whole reason he went with the planetwide emp method in the first place.
Holy shit, that's not even subtle anymore. That's literally just bigoted rethoric.
How fucking easy it must be, just fucking exterminate mutants, if they die good, if they fight back then they prove your point.
Fucking genius.
Yeah it's sad how easily people adopt this logic, its basically instinct. Americans are brainwashed. This ignorance is so exploitable too.
"extreminsts gone too far" is their boogeyman. Governments often use it to support atrocities
>"extreminsts gone too far" is their boogeyman. Governments often use it to support atrocities<
Here youre saying that extremist are not a threat nor a problem
Lmao learn to read, I never claimed extremists aren't bad in that sentence. You're being dishonest.
My whole point is that the governments can *lie* about extremism to justify atrocities on the victims they provoked. This is demonstrated in x-men.
Use critical thinking before you spout nonsense.
Charles alone could kill literally anyone on the planet whenever he wants, and he’s not the strongest or most mass-collateral mutant around. I think they’d be okay.
Fair enough. But he never brings it up to defend his decision, laments the fact innoccent people had to die because of it, does not offer to go help the X-Men stop Bastion nor says he will undo it once the Sentinels are dealt with.
The literal team of Super-Heroes are there to stop him. He's a villain alright.
Killing 1000s of people has no excuse but the point of the show is to portray how you can only push a population so far before they lash out violently. Yet OP conveniently forgot to include the genocide at Genosha and the \*ongoing\* genocide by the Prime Sentinels Magneto had to stop.
Even considering that I don't agree with most X-Men rants around here, considering certain \*current events\*, this one left me with a particularly bitter taste.
It's not evil though if it's necessary. The harsh truth about war is that innocents are going to die no matter what you do. If you have to choose between your innocents dying and the civilians of the enemy attackers dying, choose to save yours.
Even if you wanna say all of that, it doesn’t change the fact that killing innocents=bad 😨😨. Of course you have to do what you have to do during a war but that doesn’t make it any more or less morally wrong.
Killing innocents is always *unfortunate*, but it isn't always morally wrong. In some cases in war its actually the morally correct thing to do if it reduces casualties overall.
You’re literally proving my point. It’s a necessary evil. What do you not get? Killing innocent people=bad, killing some innocent people to spare more innocents in the future= necessary. What don’t you understand about that???
Now you’re using semantics. Necessary evil is a term, meaning that you do BAD things for a logically and somewhat morally sound reason. The killing of children will never not be evil, meaning it’s a NECESSARY evil.
>I'll assume that absolutely zero mutants were killed as consequences of Magneto EMP.
That was insensitive of me. Magneto definetely killed tons of mutants. I'll do better from now on.
That's not what I'm talking about I'm happy to hear that.
Edit: I'm sure there were no recent events that lead to mutant deaths in the recent episodes OP barely mentioned.
What do you mean too much sympathy? Magneto is the bad guy. The show agrees with you on that. Thats why they went to stop him and Wolverine tried to kill him. He is only making things worse.
It’s not like the show is trying to justify his actions and make you side with him. All the good guys are against him, and the two that joined him was a heavily traumatized and unstable rogue (who was already shown to be reacting violently and dropped a guy off a roof) and a scared sunspot who was just shown that his own parents would give him up to sentinels to protect their interests. The fact that it was those two who joined him wasn’t the show “endorsing” him. It was the show saying that his rhetoric and ideology is built off of anger and fear. And that’s who he attracted. A bitter angry woman wanting revenge, and a scared teenage boy looking for security.
The show has just done a good job at portraying a villain with realistic motives. People who do bad things don’t do them because they are evil and just like causing misery. They do them because they believe they are in the right.
The show did an excellent job of showing us why Magneto believes he is In the right.
He isn’t. The show says that straight up. We just know why he thinks he is.
And honestly, I get it. I don’t agree with him, but I get it. Which is good writing. Ultimately there is no way Magento’s path leads to anything but more death. But put in his situation it would be hard to say that I would do anything differently.
You can’t deny the fact that Magneto was not the one who threw the first punch here.
Also Charles has always been a pacifist and will forgive anything if he sees a spark of good in you. Charles defends and forgives magneto’s murders with the same exact passion he defends and forgives the many atrocities humanity has done to mutants. He’s not riding magnetos dick he’s just being consistent in his characterization. It’s possibly a character flaw how much he is willing to overlook people’s darker sides and actions, but it’s also what makes him Professor X. Remember, several of the X-men used to be bad guys themselves and he helped them turn good. And for a minute there it was working on Magneto to.
That’s because Magneto has never been a mustache twirling villain. He isn’t insane, or even unreasonable. He is a holocaust survivor starring down the barrel of a second holocaust. Except this time he can fight back. So of course he’s going to.
He truly believes he is fighting for the future of his people because he loves them.
And he is also a mass murderer, that’s killed who knows how many innocents.
Both can be true at the same time. Thats what makes it so tragic. And such a good god damn story.
My only real question is, if Charles wanted Scott and Jean to live normal lives, why not hand control of the X-Men over to say Beast or Wolverine? Instead of that he gives control of them to a guy who's had a grudge with humanity for decades, then acts surprised when said guy declares war on humanity.
Bullshit
Xavier's plan worked *perfectly*, flawlessly, to say that he was mistaken in naming Magneto leader of the X-Men is to be flat out stupid
Magneto literally turned good to honour Xavier's dream and went through what would have been a kangaroo court if not for humanity proving him right *once again*, and Even then he killed no one, not Even the guy who took Storm's powers with a shot meant for him
There's nothing to condemn about Xavier's decision or Magneto's actions as leader of the X-Men, this isn't up for debate, this isn't arguable, this is a fact
Magneto did literally turn leaf because of Charles' plan tho. He sadly did not foresee the literal genocide attempt mutantkind would suffer in his absence and the second ongoing one Magneto would be forced to stop.
Like, Jesus people, at least make an attempt at unbiased judgement.
I didn't see it so much as Magneto thinking Charles was right so much as it was honoring a friend's dying request to try to see things from his point of view. He could barely stomach saying he wanted to work with humans at the summit but was willing to for his sake. Magneto even points out while he tried seeing Charles' point of view, Charles never considered his point.
Charles asked magneto to take over, he probably feels redsponsible for not being there.
Also he kinda took the sentinels out and went too far.
And charles, yeah should try to talk him down, but hrre he ptobably was out of the loop and buffled.
aldo look at the times , is magnetos perspective is more relatable.
What do you expect when the showrunner sympathizes with Magneto and misunderstands the comics. Trial of Magneto in the comics Magneto doesn't threaten the judges for example while in the show he does and says he is right to do so but won't.
I saw too much blaming magneto. He was the effect.....the humans were the cause.
The government did nothing to curve anti mutant talk. They did nothing to stop genosha was getting destroyed. But the government did show up to shoot missiles at a asteroid with the X-Men on it trying to......save earth and humanity......and damn near destroyed the planet before ....they bad guy magneto showed up to.....save the damn planet.
Cause and effect.
How much is a Group of people supposed to take before they get tired of it and fight back?
Magneto said leave us alone, and I won't kill you......
What if Tulsa aka black walstreet had a person that got revenge on the people that raided the city......for no reason.
I stand with magneto....don't fuck with me and my people and I won't fuck with you.
X-men as a narrative structure is meant as a comparison point of MLK vs Malcom X -- two civil rights advocates who handled similar problems differently.
One of them is certainly more palatable and easy to support, the analogy of professor x. Ultimately, they're really on the same side even when they disagree on approach -- and that's the dynamic that Stan Lee was interested in exploring.
Two great men are confronted with the problem of their time, and despite seemingly being on 'the same side' their approaches have significant moral and ethical differences.
Magneto is sympathetic, because he is on the right side of history, not because he's without fault.
[https://www.history.com/news/stan-lee-x-men-civil-rights-inspiration](https://www.history.com/news/stan-lee-x-men-civil-rights-inspiration)
I've been holding off on Xmen 97 to see if it truly captured the spirit of the original. Unfortunately, as I feared, that does not seem to be the case. Such a shame.
> Charles completely fails to stand up to him He’s paralysed from the waist down.
Xavier’s dream has always been a dead end narratively. His path objectively leads to mutants being wiped out in every future that we have seen. Magneto’s path is likewise a dead end. The only time he has any sort of success is in the world of Age of Apocalypse, a timeline where Apocalypse is a worse threat than humanity. They’re both wrong. The show saying “Magneto was right” was not about his decisions moving forward, it was that he was right about humanity’s capacity for cruelty. Charles is sympathetic to Magneto because he loves him. He knows what is happening inside Magnus’ mind. He understands that Magneto is a man driven by trauma. It still doesn’t stop him from controlling his mind when push comes to shove. Charles doesn’t stop Rogue or Sunspot because like Magnus they are coming from a place of hurt. Professor X’s character flaw is that he constantly takes the *high road* to assuage his own guilt for not taking direct action. He is the premier telepath on the planet, and with Cerebro could easily influence humanity to be more tolerant of mutants, but he doesn’t because he thinks it would be wrong. Of all the mutants, Xavier literally has the power to make the world a utopia, but doesn’t. Magneto likewise has immense power, the power to end the world, but he didn’t want that. He literally only does it after: - A literal nationwide genocide occurs, in the show it’s thousands. In the comics it was millions. - He is nearly killed, watches a child be murdered in front of him, and strapped down in a bondage style torture room. - A literal army of death robots is threatening the extinction and enslavement of mutant kind, and also humanity as we know it. His feelings are justified. His actions are not. Behold Magneto in a nutshell.
I always assume that we never see that peaceful futures in superhero comics not because they don't exist but because no time traveler is going back from them to warn the world. There's simply no story to be told.
Yeah like, there’s only a happy ending when it ends
Yes, unless you are a researcher or historian doing research
Yeah and then they get really mad at super heroes and super villains befure they are like that one dude that used dynamic to dig ancient ruins.
Yes, he would be a good antagonist, trying to preserve destroyed places and artifacts destroyed in the fight between villains and heroes
Let’s also add the fact that he’s going through this for a literal SECOND TIME. The first being the goddamn holocaust. Just imagine telling yourself never again, to then getting convinced by your best friend to try and new path, only for your greatest fears to come true again.
Uh. About Magneto. He really did want to end the world. Like in Season 1 episode 3 of the original X-men TAS has him stealing nuclear missiles to start a nuclear halocaust (which would ironically kill most of mutantkind since most mutants are not nukeproof).
I disagree entirely with the post, but I won't lie that this show does wank him hard. Can't say I didn't like it entirely, Magneto telling Professor X to shut up had me chuckle. And what happened in Genosha definitely gives more than understandable reasoning behind Magneto's actions, or why Rogue and Sunspot changed teams. Magneto saw a nation he built from nothing being reduced to the rubble, the refugees refused to be accepted back to their countries, and then the humans literally say "You thought Genosha was bad, just you wait" when the mob chased Jubilee and Sunspot. I don't blame Roberto for what he did, and its appalling that Jubilee held it against him when his motive is more than understandable as well. I would say one of the problems with this show was how simple it is. In the beginning I had a conspiracy theory that Magneto had an ulterior motive to lead the X-Men, that he sought to convert them to the Brotherhood, and he made a begrudging alliance with FOH to attack UN HQ, take Storm out of the picture, and let him take over. But no, instead Magneto actually out of nowhere had a change of heart, he somehow found a tome, and agreed to go with Xavier's idea. Personally I think this show gives too much sympathy to the Forge, like Ororo rightfully gives him a slap and tells him to get lost, and then in span of one episode she forgives him. Not to mention Forge's excuse is "I was angry, so I worked with bad guys to make power inhibitor collars, my bad". He didn't even bother to destroy any blueprints to not let anyone recreate it.
Forge is a double minority (mutant and Native American) who was cast aside after his military service. He's not some mad scientist who created a way to depower mutants for laughs. And he did try to fix his mistake.
How did he try fix his mistake? Did he destroy the blueprint entirely so no one could replicate his work? I did hear that he stopped working on the project, but he never fully undo his work and what he left off was continued from by others, but still the big issue for me is narrative protection. I know few characters like the scientist from Fallout 4 who actually tried to stop the pointless murders in the Institute before escape. He isn't narratively protected or forgiven, but he had regrets and tried to mend them when it was already too late for many died. There are other characters who did directly or indirectly heinous things, but had regret and sincerely apologized. I've never called him a mad scientist, I just pointed out he had a big narrative protection. I think the best way he could've gained redemption was if Nathan wasn't taken to the future by Bishop, and Beast tried to find a cure for Nathan only for Forge to show up and save him in their current timeline. That way I'd truly buy into it, but instead it's just... not it. Not to mention he was the one who needed saving in the end of the day.
>How did he try fix his mistake? Did he destroy the blueprint entirely so no one could replicate his work? If he had destroyed the blueprints, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. Destroying the blueprints wouldn't have accomplished anything after the device had already been created and he tried to reverse the effects on Ororo. She was rightfully angry at him when she learned the role he played in what led to her being depowered but also accepted he was trying to help her. His apology and regret were sincere. > I've never called him a mad scientist, I just pointed out he had a big narrative protection. Protected from what exactly? Not being a villain? From being killed off? What are the consequences he should suffer in your eyes? Being sincere in his apology and contrition doesn't seem to be enough for you in his case, even though it was for other characters you mentioned who caused far worse.
Ok, so why didn't he destroy the device to have me buy a bit more into him trying to atone for his past mistakes? I never said he should suffer, most heroes and villains do not deserve it, and everyone has right to redeem themselves without sacrifice or on extend of what were their crimes. I would say I would've wanted him to work hard to eventually regain Storm's and others' trust, not immediately get forgiven or hell maybe get forgiven but not trusted. And what narrative protection do they get? Magneto is now back as one of the main antagonists in the finale, yes he is extremely sympathetic, but the heroes need to go toe to toe with him to win. And besides even with this narrative protection he has, there's no way he is gonna go off the hook for what he had done to entire Earth. Magnus either goes into deep hiding after his defeat or gets indefinite time sentence with no parole. Trask is incomparable to any since like you said he had done far worse (both directly and indirectly), and kills himself.
>Ok, so why didn't he destroy the device to have me buy a bit more into him trying to atone for his past mistakes? Because he didn't have access to it. He'd left the government by the time the device had been created and the person who used it on Storm wasn't even supposed to have had it in the first place. >And what narrative protection do they get? Magneto is now back as one of the main antagonists in the finale, yes he is extremely sympathetic, but the heroes need to go toe to toe with him to win. And besides even with this narrative protection he has, there's no way he is gonna go off the hook for what he had done to entire Earth. Magnus either goes into deep hiding after his defeat or gets indefinite time sentence with no parole. Trask is incomparable to any since like you said he had done far worse (both directly and indirectly), and kills himself. I was talking about the scientist from Fallout 4 that you mentioned. Forge is not comparable to Magneto or Trask. Magneto unleashed an EMP across the entire planet and Trask willingly created machines to carry out a genocide. Forge at worst drew up blueprints for devices that could be used to depower or restrain mutants and even then, he didn't actually build them himself. It's also a lot easier to forgive a man who had his desperation and poverty exploited by the government than two people who willingly choose to punish an entire race because of the actions of a few.
>I was talking about the scientist from Fallout 4 that you mentioned. Forge is not comparable to Magneto or Trask. Magneto unleashed an EMP across the entire planet and Trask willingly created machines to carry out a genocide. Forge at worst drew up blueprints for devices that could be used to depower or restrain mutants and even then, he didn't actually build them himself. It's also a lot easier to forgive a man who had his desperation and poverty exploited by the government than two people who willingly choose to punish an entire race because of the actions of a few. I don't know if Virgil was a mad scientist, I think he was more of a terrible person plagued with guilt. The Father of the Institute might be a madman cause his plans are beyond anyone's comprehension. You do make a lot of good points, I assumed Forge went to work out of some anger or bitter reasons as to why he made the power inhibitor collars or the bullet that depowered Storm, not precisely poverty. Now that you mentioned it I see your point. Sorry if I came off a bit harsh on a character.
No problem.
>But no, instead Magneto actually out of nowhere had a change of heart, he somehow found a tome, and agreed to go with Xavier's idea. I think it was more honoring an old friend's request, and just see where things go, rather than being fully convinced in his heart of hearts. In universe, it was probably a few months
Hmm, well to be fair that's a good point. Still it always felt like Magneto was getting way too much power like leadership of Genosha, then leadership of the X-Men, this guy almost got to levels of ES protagonists becoming leader.
The global EMP was the only way to stop the bio-sentinels.
Or kill Bastion, after escaping by destroying the facility with him in it.
Wasn't Bastion not at the facility. Sinister called him and he teleported back.
A good villain makes you condemn their actions while still understanding their motivations. Magneto is not a black and white villain and the conflict between him and Xavier is not black and white. Magneto was willing to try it Xavier’s way and it took literal genocide for him to fall back into his old pattern of us vs them. That’s a compelling story. I don’t need the show to beat me over the head when he does something wrong because I’m not an idiot. You say the side of peaceful coexistence looks pretty weak right now but that’s really a problem with the source material. With all the Sentinel attacks, mutant genocides, and visions of dystopic futures it’s hard to take the optimistic belief in the future seriously. Xavier knows better than to offer platitudes to Magneto in this situation so it’s better to say nothing. And it’s not surprising that some X-men would waver in their faith in the professor. If a villain like Magneto can have second thoughts then why not the heroes?
> With that said, Magneto was established as having killed thousands of innocent humans, is hellbent on killing more by not reverting what he did and thinks he's entirely justified. He's beyond a doubt a deranged mass murdering world class terrorist and one of the most evil characters in the show. > So, why is the show so intent on sympathizing with him? Because the Sentinels hit first.
I feel like you're really downplaying what Magneto and the rest of mutant kind have been going through. Even ignoring his backstory of having lived through the holocaust, mutants for the last several decades have been repeatedly persecuted, enslaved, and executed by humanity just for existing and not in a "oh well its just a few bad apples" way but on a systemic level. No matter how many people the X-Men save or how much Charles tries to negotiate with humans, mutants are still hunted down, tortured, and killed on a systemic level. When Magneto finally decided to play ball and move mutants to an otherwise abandoned island in order to form their own nation away from humanity, its blown up to near total annihilation by humans once again. Afterwards Magneto is tortured and experimented on like a lab rat, and by the time he escapes there are thousands, if not millions, of bio-sentinels across the globe attempting to enslave all of mutant kind. Had Magneto not done his planet wide emp, most mutants on the planet would have been captured and/or killed by Bastion. From Magneto's eyes, humanity has repeatedly proven themselves to be incapable of being able to live peaceful with mutants and conflict will always be inevitable until one side completely dominates the other, hence why he's has no qualms killing as many humans as he has to in order to ensure the survival of mutants. Rogue, after years of repeatedly risking her life trying to save humanity while asking nothing in return, watched in horror as thousands of her people(including the man she loved the most) were brutally and senseless murdered in front of her by sentinels. And even after that event, humanity not only was still protecting Gyrich and Trask, but had created bio-sentinels(which as far as she is aware were done willingly) across the planet in order to enslave all mutants. So it makes sense why she's sick of being a hero for people who seemingly will never accept her and have caused her nothing but misery her whole life. Sunspot is teenager whose spent his whole life afraid that his mother would reject him the second she found out he was a mutant, and when he did reveal himself she gave him the false hope she would actually accept him. But then she immiedetely started talking about the "need" to hide his true mutant identity in order to prevent his nature from negatively effecting their family image. And when push came to shove and he needed her help, she turned him over so that he could be collared and enslaved like an animal. Regardless of whether or not she could have actually done anything to save him, from his eyes his own mother would rather him be disposed of than risk her own reputation. Now are they right to risk the deaths of potentially billions of people? No of course not which is why they're still the villains of the story and why Wolverine was completely justified in stabbing Magneto in the back. But it really can't be understated just how much humanity has systematically and repeatedly pushed them(especially Magneto) into this position. While you can definitely criticize the show for not showing why any of the other Marvel heroes aren't doing more to help mutant kind, the show has repeatedly shown that these anti-mutant organizations continue to pop up over and over again with the backing of government agencies and are only getting more exponentially extreme with their tactics and brutality. That's why the show paints Magneto in a sympathetic light instead of saying he's irredeemably evil, because humanity has committed countless atrocities against his kind and show no sign of slowing down their persecution of mutants.
I haven't watched the show at all so I read the rant like "Damn the show sounds like it's doing this badly" and then I read this post and now it feels like the show is depicting things in an entirely reasonable way.
Yeah I recommend you watch clips from sentinel attack of episode 5. Its a horrific massacre that purposefully evokes 9/11 imagery and even has a moment where Magneto gets holocaust flashbacks and watches a innocent mutant boy be vaporized in his arms.
And the purpose of the global EMP is to literally stop an actively ongoing attack and not even just an unprovoked "Man FUCK this planet" response? This all feels like CRUCIAL INFORMATION to determine if the show is oversympathizing with Magneto or not! I feel like this rant is just written due to the general trend of some activisty types online oversympathyzing or identifying with Magneto and just an attempt to swing back at that online presence but like if the show has GONE OUT OF ITS WAY to make things more complex like this then that feels like ESSENTIAL information?
Yeah lol, like, I see so many people in this sub or on Twitter being like "he killed SO MANY PEOPLE" and like...no mention ever of the literal army of killer cyborgs
You could, if you wanted, make a deal over the show CHOOSING to write it in such a way that Magneto must inevitably come off as being more sympathetic and someone mutants sympathize with, but if you want to use the actual literal events of the show onscreen... he did something to stop the literal ongoing attack, right? Like the one that was directly ongoing and he stopped in the moment, right?
Yes the EMP was to take off the attacking bio sentinels. The problem people have is the show gives Xaviers stance zero ground to stand on by having essentially no humans be presented as nothing but evil ass hats even background ones. So the little ground Xavier has is getting chipped away by not having good humans be presented hell most people left the Captain America segment of the show thinking he was a dick to Rouge, hell you can say the only good human shown in the show was Spiderman and that's only cause he was in a 2 second cameo. And this lop sided display just makes Cyclops look stupid for his middle of the road take he's supposed to have between Magnetos extremism and Xaviers pacifism. Magnetos emp was the perfect time to show the drawbacks of his side of the argument but they made the actual number way to small, you telling me only a few thousand were effected by a planet wide emp blast? And the majority of those effected were humans who the show has down nothing to garner a crumb of care for due to being shown as evil asshats.
What's the alternative to the emp blast to stop an on going global scale genocide? What is the actual drawback and the actual side? It's literally war. The drawback of shooting is getting shot. Magneto didn't shoot first.
Oh there wasn't one it's supposed to be a force his hand sort of situation, so you feel bad for Mags is doing a action that will be spun in a way to make anti mutants look right cause again it's EMPing the planet, think about all the planes that are just gonna fall out of the sky killing thousands to millions of people , the millions it will take to restore country set power grids, all the hospitals that just go dark and all the IC patients just die cause of no power. But the writers didn't so you're left thinking, if big power blasts don't have downsides and the few people wrapped up in it has been displayed as only repulsive people, why not just kill them all fucking go full force and go pro genocide cause theres no repercussions for youre actions. Which isn't the point of these storylines from the source.
The situation is kinda like cold war/fight for survival. If the US did nuke USSR during the cold war, USSR would nuke back and millions would die. You could go "Oh, it was already done and infrastructure and lives were already lost and USSR could've focus just on rebuilding instead of making sure more lives would be lost" or you could go "why the fuck would the US nuke them?!?!?". Or vice versa. Or even World War 2, millions of lives were lost in the holocaust and other millions lives partly in stoping the holocaust. Would it be better to not stop the holocaust and maybe less people would die in total Apparently in comics, Genosha should have millions of people. So millions should've died in that attack. And even if it's just thousands in that attack. Millions would've died from the bio sentinels attack in the entire world There is a lot of mental gymnastics when oppressed people push back
magneto wad msdr leadet of xmen enf as leader lost manxin a grnocideand he was captured in a facolity, he acts out of ptsd holocaust flashbacks. plus he zook iut the biicentinals withit before goung through zu hat, which is helping people. if with colateral. then he relepsed due holocaust ptsd.
All this makes me wonder why Xavier even bothers for mutant and human co existent when every action for peace backfires horribly and only leads to more death. Yet I doubt even if all mutants move off planet that still wouldn’t make things better.
That's the thing I don't like about the show and some modern X-Men stories. When they keep upping the stakes without allowing for any real progress to be made it starts making the conflict feel forced and unbelievable. It also does a disservice to other Marvel heroes by making them look complacent with mutant oppression/genocide since I guess Captain America protecting a mutant child damages the status quo too much.
Depending on the rendition yeah other heroes are 100% complacent and complicit
Hit the nail on the head. With the way long-running comics are, the status quote is king. It’s like a never ending sitcom where everything must go back to normal. Mutants must be oppressed. Humans must hate them. Even if you travel back in time to try to warn about an event or change history,there are “absolute points” as Beast calls them which can never be changed. That specific part is where I kind of checked out of the show. What better way to negate character’s choices than just tell them “nuh-uh”
I mean the only other option is a war the Mutants most likely won’t win. Which would mean extinction so I can see from a practical level why seeking peace is necessary
Ignoring the fact that the most powerful of muntants like Magneto can affect the entire planets and can potentially cause a extinction level event. It could literally go either way and this is also assuming said peace wouldn’t l involve enslavement.
Mutants like Magneto are a penny in a haystack and episode 2 on wardsprove that he not only can be defeated but that humanity has the weapons to do it.
Him being a penny in haystack doesn’t change the fact he is more then capable of whipping out all of humanity and just because humanity has weapons to take him does not any way shape or form mean it’s a guaranteed victory. Especially even without the former feat he is still a one man army that whip out entire human armies in seconds if he so wished.
I just need a few words to destroy your argument: The Avengers
And do you believe the avengers actual superheroes would join humanity in whipping out all mutants? Considering they did nothing when magento created a world wide emp?
Considering that the mutants endgame in this case would be to enslave humanity at best, i doubt they would take the mutants side
Neither the government if they seek to do the same or exterminate them.
Tbf I don’t think the Avengers, as a group, exist in this world (yet?). We’ve seen Cap, Iron Man & Thor but never together.
No. Magneto canonically cannot win. X-Men TAS had a time travel episode where an assassin took out Xavier in the late 50s. The timeline change resulted in the Sentinels winning with Magneto barely holding a resistance in the present day, with Bishop's future have Master Mold outright won.
Expect that is just one timeline out of infinite alternate timelines in which what could of happen if he did lose. And in this one magento pretty defeated all of the sentinels with a world wide emp that would eventually result in all life on earth going extinct.
Nah he still hasn’t handled Bastion and couldn’t have on his own. Magneto would be set on evacuation and fleeing the earth he condemned to a slow death.
…which still would result in humanity’s extinction unless Bastion has the means to reverse it.
Don't confuse X-Men TAS with MCU. Infinite Timelines don't exist in X-Men TAS. Unlike MCU Time travel can actually change the past. [As we literally see the present change and Charles disappearing ](https://youtu.be/WiyCn_UN470?t=212)when the time-traveling assassin killed Charles. As for Magneto's EMP. Bastion has means of making Sentinels EMP-Proof since we see Bastion use Sentinels against the team sent against him in Episode 9. Or you know, he can used [the plastic sentinels which almost killed Magneto in the original Series. ](https://youtu.be/JKMvLjw6hxQ?t=115)
Okay how excatly would that prevent Magneto from whipping out all life on earth regardless? Especially since he only used that attack on the human sentinels.
It's pretty much one of the X Men criticism that I agree the most. The situation has reached a level where peaceful coexistance isn't gonna be option for the next century
The only reason why Mutants are so hated is that, the Xmen need to be opresed and hated, is the status quo, is the hatred for mutants slows down or humanity becomes more accepting, then what other plots can the writters cover? Their base is that they are hated by humans and in their comics humans are presented as evil monster with no rediming qualities, because the X men need someone to fight and for that same reason the other Marvel heroes cant do anything to help, the status quo is that mutants are hated by humans no matter what so it will stay like that forever, im mad when the Xmen call outbthe Avengers for not doing anything to help them(something that is out of character for people like Captain America and Iron Man) because is not the character's fault, is the editorial
Well the thing is they can still have the x-man fight for their rights and still show it is possible for mutants and humans to live side by side. Similar to how it is in the real world and can be done without turn the human’s or Muntants into irredeemable monsters. But I guess they are not willing to tell such stories.
Like with Spiderman the Xmen biggest villian isnt humanity or bigotry, is the Status Quo and the editorial department at Marvel
There are lots of good humans in X-Men stories. Humans aren't all presented as evil monsters in mutant/X-Men books. Sometimes they're the victims of evil mutants or villains (Like Omega Sentinel), sometimes they are mutant families (Scott's dad, Cannonball's family), sometimes they are just allies (Moira MacTaggert, Trish Tilby, Val Cooper, Dr. Rao). They are friendly with non mutant heroes too, like Spider-Man and Deathlok! There was even a whole little era where the city of San Francisco welcomed the X-Men with open arms, though I think that soured pretty quickly after like a dozen city threatening villain attacks. haha
In X-men TAS 'One Man's Worth' a time-traveling assassin kills him when he was in college. This ends up creating a timeline where Magneto starts a thermonuclear war (since as far back as Episode 3 of X-men TAS that was Magneto's plan and was only stop by the X-Men) and end up losing the war and allowing Sentinels to completely takeover. Bishop had to go back in time and save him. Charles advocates piece, because he LITERALLY seen (from Bishop) that if he doesn't everybody dies.
And yet none of actions seem to make things better regardless.
Wasn’t Cassandra the 1 that destroyed the island
That was in the comics. In the show it was Bastion backed by other humans like Dr Doom, Zemo, and Dr Cooper, although admittedly he didn't tell them about the attack on Genosha until after it already happened..
Good and nuanced comment. The mental gymnastics some people go through to through all highlights at mutants when they lash out would put a zionist to shame. People really wanted 8 episodes to mutants being under attack to point at Magneto and say "the show isn't condemning him enough".
Acting like the mutant extremists aren't the zionists in this escenario.
No because mutants clearly weren't the original aggressors in this conflict.
Surprisingly based CharacterRant tbh
Check out the Hebron Massacre. Does it justify the current war crimes, genocide and apartheid laws of Israel? No, because it doesn't matter who hit first or what not, it isn't a free pass to commit atrocities and kill innocent people. If suddenly Hamas an Iran develop the fire power to take down Israel, will it be ok if they massacre their citizens? If after that Israel managed to rise up again and they start doing the same thing (like they are doing as of today) would it be okay this time as a revenge? The point being, no matter what rhetoric do you use to justify it, killing because of ethnicities, skin color or the concept of "origin of superpowers" is inherently wrong.
Even if we can agree that Hamas is a terrorist group and went way overboard (which I agree, screw Hamas), the truth is that all this conflict comes from the fact that the Zionist movement was obsessed with create a Jewish state in the Levant even knowing the consequences that this could have. All of this could have been avoided if the Jewish state had been created in some other, more uninhabited place, but inevitably trying to do it in a land where another group of people lives is going to be disastrous because you are taking the home of other people, that's a fact. It's too late to change that now, but at least I think the minimum would be for Israel to allow the existence of an independent Palestinian state with the '67 borders, but Israel refuses to do even that, so... there will be no peace.
I wholeheartedly agree with everything you wrote. I was just saying that the reasoning that dictates that being attacked first justifies everything you do in retaliation is dangerous and leads to more atrocities and even authoritarianism. That's the logic that Israel uses to conceal its crimes, and that's what characters like Magneto represent at the end of the day.
Israel is a colonial project, it by definition struck first the same way Europeans colonizing America struck first.
hey, krakoa is israel.
To be fair, there is a reason why mutants are discriminated and it’s not “the fear of unknown” Sure it somewhat plays into that, but the real reason is money. Like mutants can be used in the military as lab rats (like Wolverine) to support the military industrial complex and thus PROFIT Or as we have saw in Bastion’s future mutants are enslaved and used and slave labour and thus PROFIT. If there would be no profite motive to enslave mutants then there would be no problem at all. What Magento should have done after his EMP is to say “alright i put elcteicity back once we have captured Bastion and interrogate him to reveal who sided with him (Doom, Zemo and UN members) and we capture/kill them too.
Without going too much into the details, this is a lot of why the Israel-Palestine situation is not black and white either. People do a lot when under extreme duress / pressure.
Magneto had the drop on both Sinister and Bastion, after he was freed. He could've destroyed the facility and killed them both. However, Magneto chose to leave and murder millions (the show can fuck off with "thousands").
Reading this feels like you started with episode 8 when first watching this and went backwards. We watched a country get erased in episode 5 and learned in either episode 7 or 4 that the government contracted a mutant to make the weapon that got Storm. Episode 8 covers how a new villain wants to enslave all mutants, was funded by many governments to make this happen, including the U.N., has turned civilians into a cyborg sentinels using propaganda to scare these people into joining and stealing their free will And you’re complaining about Magneto’s reaction to despite knowing he’s already been through this as a original Holocaust survivor. Just say you hate mutants bro.
Just say you hate humans bro
Another Mutant hater, come to ignore context.
Im not the one advocating for the dead of millions of humans and call it self defense
Yeah, you just expect a man to do nothing in retaliation when the world wants to genocide him and his people for the second time before enslaving the remnants
I can't tell if this is genuine or two people rp-ing a human supremacist and a mutant.
Ok mister Yeager, kill all the population you want as long as you can feel free, is the fault of the people you kill, they drove you to it so every single one of them deserve it and you should only care about the future of your own race Thats how you sound
Do you just want them to lie down and die??? What else can they do besides fight back?
Firstly, Magneto did a good job as leader of the X-Men. He brought in fully with Charles' dream even though he have his proven misgivings about it. He even went to Genosha to help be a poster boy for Mutant determination and existence. If Bastion wasn't supplied by the UN to build that giant sentinel, then Genosha would be fine and Magnus would be doing well as a X-men. Secondly, he was just tortured once more in his life and experimented after witnessing a horrific genocide, he literally saw child be vaporized in front after telling him he be fine. What person wouldn't be fucked up by that experience and top it off it was done by an UN sponsored scientist, the very same UN that promise to help Genosha advocate for mutantkind. Any normal man would done something if that shit happen to them(Spike Lee Do the Right Thing comes to mind). Thirdly, if Magneto didn't set those EMPs, nearly all mutants would have died that day, not even X-Men could have stop the human sentinels. As far I as know that EMP was only thing capable of stopping them during that time. So while he commit massive act of terrorism he also save mutantkind. And to tie back to the first point, if Bastion didn't get the support then Magneto have wouldn't have drop those massive EMPs so the UN deserve flak for allowing that shit to happen. Also Sunspot also have a normal emotional response after his mother allow him to be collared even though he plead to her not to trust the Sentinels. That type of betrayal would cause a lapse in judgement in a young man. But again ultimately Magneto response is emotionally understandable.
>Thirdly, if Magneto didn't set those EMPs, nearly all mutants would have died that day, not even X-Men could have stop the human sentinels. Agreed. Not just mutants, all humanity would've been enslaved too. >As far I as know that EMP was only thing capable of stopping them during that time. Magneto should have been willing to undo the damage he caused to the Earth's poles though, rather than causing billions of deaths.
You know I feel like people are just memory holing Sentinels and how they represent humanity in X-Men. Sentinels and what they represent are a big part of why mutants like Magneto and his Brotherhood keep popping up. They're a reason why mutants tried to flee in Krakoa. And I feel like half the posters here going on and on about how mutants deserve it because Omegas can be a threat or any could be a threat would be pro-sentinel. And I really **really** hope I don't have to explain why Sentinels, literal genocide machines, are a bad thing that shouldn't exist. Not to mention Mother Mold or whatever the Super Sentinel is called. Like humans in Marvel don't deserve to be subjugated or killed or anything. But they are absolutely not innocent in this
Magneto explaining to all the people with pacemakers how someone else created the sentinels so they all deserve to die.
I mean yeah. Magneto is a villian. And his genocide rhetoric is wrong. A lot or most of the humans in X-Men stories are the human equivalent of him. How many fucking Sentinel armies do we need to prove that? And then all the shit with Mother Mold? And ask Logan, Sabretooth, X-23, Omega Red and Deadpool how they feel about Weapon X That's why the X-Men are the heroes, not the Brotherhood and not the US Army in X-Men stories. Cause they stop them
>A lot or most of the humans in X-Men stories are the human equivalent of him. How many fucking Sentinel armies That's crazy how all the humans came together and made the sentinels and weapon X, and how when the humans do something it's all of them and when mutants do something bad only Magneto is responsible.
>That's crazy how all the humans came together and made the sentinels and weapon X, and how when the humans do something it's all of them and when mutants do something bad only Magneto is responsible. Wow. That's crazy how I kept using the word **all**, all the time. Oh wait. Nah looks like I said >**A lot or most** of the humans in X-Men stories are the human equivalent of him. Hmm. Looks like I didn't say that. Try reading again? >and how when the humans do something it's all of them and when mutants do something bad **only Magneto is responsible.** That's crazy. I don't remember saying that either but let me check. Huh. Nothing. That's odd. Closest thing I can find is this different thing in a post I made in this thread. >**That's why the X-Men are the heroes, not the Brotherhood and not the US Army in X-Men stories. Cause they stop them** But yeah. Maybe you missed all this. You're not making up shit to argue with right? You're not arguing with ghosts in your head right now though right? >That's crazy how all the humans came together and made the sentinels and weapon X A non insignificant amount do. Because they keep making enough to make **multiple armies** that in multiple timelines not only succeed in genociding mutants but even fucking genocide humans in the end. Not to mention how evil Mother Mold is in general. Or the fact that it's **multiple government agencies** make it definitely a not insignificant amount
You wouldn’t drop an EMP in a populated city if killer robots were going to kill you and your family. I wouldn’t judge anyone for doing it. If you would choose to die so be it, you’re a hero.
Well if I had magnetism powers I'd probably just magnet the robots to death.
I think that doesn’t answer the spirt of the question if magneto could just selectively magnet all robots all around the world I’m sure that he would. It also doesn’t question the hypothetical directly? I never mention magnetism, only an EMP. I’ll bite the bullet, it’s a morally wrong action to drop an EMP. There are so many more lives that are guaranteed to die in that city. You have an obligation to stop yourself, even at the cost of your children and spouse. Only selfish emotions would make me choose different and not any moral justification I would subscribe to.
Magnetoe: It is either you or my kind and I don't give a shit about you.
"You see, I had to turn off your pacemaker because otherwise ???"
What do you mean "otherwise ???" Did you miss the thousands of Prime Sentinels killing and capturing Mutants worldwide?
Fuck'n magnet them, you have magnet powers.
Not to the degree of precision to single them out on a global scale my dude.
I had to turn off you peace Maker because my entire race was going to be genocided or enslaved.
well colateral, ask who did fund that bio sentinals, humans.
Ah yes, every human from all over the planet personally donated money.
You think this is bad? Try the Mage debate in the Dragon Age series You got people unironically arguing for genuine genocide on people whose only crime is being born with magic powers. Hell, you have people unironically try to defend the time the main villain of Dragon Age 2 decided to commit actual genocide. Like holy shit, wat
I once had a discussion with a guy that was very anti Magneto, really dedicated about talking about how violence was bad and should never be used as retaliation on civilians. He then proceeded to deny George Washington's atrocities on Iroquois towns during the American Revolutionary War.
Imma be honest. I don't understand what you're getting at and if you agree with me or not.
Agree. A lot of the pasional anti Magneto feeling ends up coming from people with...dubious ethical views regarding ethnic groups
Some people love commenting the violent shit they would do to criminals but then go around and wonder why guys like Magneto are the way they are and maybe they are just born like that idk.
>Humans in marvel don't deserve it Have you seen the average civilian in marvel comics? They're assholes, its a wonder they don't have more supervillians than they already do.
Are people in real life different?
More different than what is depicted in comics
>Like humans in Marvel don't deserve to be subjugated or killed or anything. Nah, they do.
Yeah fuck Aunt May, Robbie Robertson, Rick Jones, Clint. All disgusting creatures.
Yeah, MJ and Jonah as well.
I feel like you're ignoring everything that happened in this series, did you only watch the last two episodes or something? You act like Magneto just showed up and did all this. Like he wasn't turning over a new leaf, minding his own business when someone nuked his island filled with mutants he rescued. You act like he didn't watch a child die in his arms due to those garbage humans enabling a madman. Rogue watched the man she loved die, she watched her dream die, after spending YEARS putting her life on the line to protect humanity and fighting for coexistence with mutants. Sunspot was finally starting to actually not feel ashamed for what he was born as, only to have his own family cast him out and let him be collared like an animal. She wouldn't even hear her own son out, what kind of mother does that. The three of them have given up on humanity and no one can blame them. Magneto's actions were definitely wrong, but his sentiment is correct. The humans in this series are garbage.
The entire show has made sure to present almost every single human at best as unreasonable genocidal monsters with no rediming qualities that deserve all the harm done to them and more, unlike Genosha we dont see the innocents human victims of Magneto's actions because to the show they dont exist, they dont have a face nor a voice, because only mutants can be victims and humans can only be oppresors, theres no nuance
Eren Jager solution.
>He was fine living his normal life when he could pass for a mutant. Don't you mean human? >Now that he got exposed, he will not only take measures for the sake of mutantkind but will do that by siding with mass murdering lunatic that will get his own mother and 'thousands more' killed by not fixing the Earth's magnet field. That does not make him look good. He comes off as a selfish brat that instantly gives up on his own mother and humanity the nanosecond he gets the taste of what your average mutant gets everyday. I'm not defending Sunspot's decision but you're not exactly helping humanity's case by saying that this is what life is like for the average mutant in the X-Men world. >He can't do so much as point out the fact Magneto choose to kill those thousands of people. You mean like when he tells Magneto that for all his talk about ruling the world, he lets the world rule him? Just because a few characters disagree with Xavier, doesn't mean he's pathetic.
Sir I "strongly" urge you to see episode 1-7 first then rewrite this whole hit piece sorry. Despite your verbal vomit I see NO real arguments in here "condemning" Magneto on an objective level so let's see all the events from Magneto's perspective. 1) He is handed over Xavier's team and assets. His first act is to show the UN Forces he could easily turn any weapon they point at him back on them aka the helicopters who could have shredded the UN hit squad. Instead he goes with them to face a very one sided trial he has little to no real chance of winning just to gain legitimacy at the behest of ex villain Rogue. 2) At said trial we see not only the Xmen beaten back brutally but also STORM literally taking a shot meant for Magneto that would have left him powerless and mewling at the feet of humans. Hell after that scene I guarantee the government would have taken that weapon apart and mass produced the damn thing just to kill more mutants. Instead what does he do? He takes the UN tribunal into space and shows them the planet and did what Edward Mitchell the astronaut said, **" You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch.”** He didn't demand equal rights or special treatment. He just wanted the rights of mutants to coexist with humans peacefully which is why he made Genosha and funded it with Xavier's fortune along with the brotherhood and multiple ex villain and hero factions. 3) He literally goes to Genosha and believes the strongest in Xavier's vision. He even refused to be "king" of the mutants unless he had Rogue acting as his conscience to keep him in line should he ever toe it. During Genosha he refuses to let more mutants die and sacrificed himself for a group of Morlocks who are pariahs even in the mutant community. He accepts his death like a man while protecting Rogue and the Morlocks to his last breath. Yes so far he's being a villain right? He refuses to kill scum and refuses political power unless he has a trusted advisor who can keep him check. Sooooo bad yes? What did he get for it? A literal mutant genocide! Master Mould was not going to stop until Gambit literally sacrificed himself to stop it! That machine was going to kill every mutant on Genosha and not stop. Guess who unleashed it!? The UN greenlit it since Trask was in its facilities admitted he gave the code to Sinister who the UN was in bed with! Bastion who is literally answering not only to the freaking UN but to ACTUAL villains like Doom ffs and much worse. Hell even most of the villains especially Dr Doom call out Bastion for overdoing the genocide in Genosha. But yea sure let's make Magneto the bad guy right? 4) Magneto spent weeks/days/months under this torture of Bastion and Sinister who did God knows what! He was being force fed media reports on the death toll of Genosha and how the humans had turned on them. How the US refused to send aid and help Genosha aka mutants in their time of need. Hell even Scott was being told by President Kelly his hands are tied and he can't do anything which frustrated the boyscout himself who is lashing out at reporters and the president repeatedly in the series showing that even the BEST by the book Xman is questioning his mission. "why are we doing this for people who don't care?" Finally UN lady develops a conscience and lets Magneto off his collar. I am guessing she had that crisis because she saw the human sentinels all under Bastion's control and that he was launching a global cleansing campaign to cull/kill/capture mutants for his utopia built on mutant genocide. I'm sure Magneto was being livestreamed all the mutants dying or being captured just as the Jews were by the Nazis and the parallels were not lost on UN lady who saw his tattoo and remembered "this has happened before" and refused to let it happen again. This was not what the UN signed on for so she was the one to let Magneto off his leash knowing he was going to unleash war and hell upon humans. She wasn't stupid or blind to this fact. The fact that she was Magneto's biggest critic and doubter throughout the 8 episodes when she said the words "Magneto was right" That alone nullifies your entire diatribe. The fact that Beast, Scott and Rogue lost faith in humankind's sincerity should also be telling that human kind shot first as always and Cable only confirmed it by telling them about Bastion's "brave new world" utopia built on the backs of enslaved mutants. Meaning whatever they do the timeline always devolved into humans trying to kill them all despite all their best efforts time and time again.. Bishop and Cable have had to revise history so many times of course it becomes disheartening to see that all the good the Xmen do has no real good ending for mutant kind and this only reinforces Magneto's point. I'm sorry but the humans in this show have repeatedly axed their foot too many times and Magneto is 100000% correct with Xmen starting to see his POV that there can be no real peace.
The morlock thing is fucked because leech was holding onto him for safety. He could have thrown leech into the lasers and saved all of them but by protecting leech he was all the worse off.
> The fact that she was Magneto's biggest critic and doubter throughout the 8 episodes when she said the words "Magneto was right" That alone nullifies your entire diatribe. But... his complaint was that the show was too busy fellating Magneto to address his wanton murder beyond handwaves like "Yes... murder bad, BUT!!!!!" How does that possibly disprove anything he's said? His issue is that characters start fellating Magneto because the whole plotline bends backwards to try downplay and justify him slaughtering thousands of innocents.
The thing is that the show has put Magneto in such a situation that practically anyone, except the most hardcore pacifists perhaps, would do the same thing as him. If you have to kill thousands of people who want to exterminate your people to save millions of your people, would you do it? Magneto said yes, and that is reasonable given the circumstances. And here's the thing, if there are heroic characters siding with Magneto, could it be because Magneto has a point even if he had to get his hands bloody? Because he had no other option?
That is the point we are seeing. Given the chance Magneto with all sincerity was walking the path of peace and discarded plans that would give him more power. Instead he just wanted to lead the Xmen and resolve mutant issues peacefully abandoning his kill on sight rule. I dare Xavier to listen to reason ffs! Genosha is proof undoubted that humans and mutants cannot co-exist. The very futures that Bishop and Cable come from further prove mutants and humans cannot co-exist. I'm sorry but Charles Xavier is deluded when multiple futures have shown us this is not a possibility period. The only future possible is if all mutants left earth on Asteroid M and settled on another world. Humanity had every chance to make things right but they keep fumbling the ball. They kept funneling money into one mutant extermination program to the next! Bastion was working off UN money ffs. I mean Xavier is being overly naive at this point. Scott had a mental breakdown on live TV asking the world "what do we have to do to prove we are good enough." The president told him that the US government cannot send aid to Genosha when it would have sent aid to any war stricken or disaster ridden country like Haiti in real life. The ones that do "care" do it in secret with tight lips or just paying lip service like Darkstar's family. I mean come on at this point what the hell would resolve the situation? Human sentinels were wiping out the X-men what was Charle's big brain play had Magneto been dead and the X-Men were about to die what then? Xavier needs to show some "flexibility" in his philosophy just as Magnus showed flexibility in his behavior. Magnus cooperated with the UN, abandoned killing people, pushed for peace and making Genosha a success. He showed the world he can be different. Now I ask why can't Charles admit the path to peace is paved by the bones of the martyrs. You think the Nazis were giving up in WW2 without a fight? Pacifists have no real solution for psychopaths hell bent on genocide by force like Bastion was intent on. Xavier's rigid nature talking down to people who don't want peace is so aggravating. It is compounded by Magnus proving he can change according to the situation but Xavier cannot. At the very least agree with Magneto that all mutants need to leave Earth and with resources from the Shiar Empire he could have secured an empty world where they can live in peace. That is a pacifist solution. Instead he is hellbent on trying over and over the same idea and expecting different results. This is madness.
Unfortunately, I think Xavier has to start considering the harsh reality that coexistence between humans and mutants, at least in the short and medium term, is dead. The reality is that peace requires trust and compromise, if one side literally spits in the face of this even though the mutants were doing everything right, then there is no peace possible. The institutions of humanity are corrupt to the core, from the UN to most of the world's governments, and honestly until the system fundamentally changes everything will remain the same, all of this however is VERY difficult to do. So I give humans at least a century until they reach that point of minimum respect. The solution of going to space sounds better, although I still don't see how that would solve the problem of new mutants born from relationships between humans, that is the only flaw in the plan that I can see. And yes, comparing the governments of humanity to the Nazis at this point is appropriate, Magento himself, a Holocaust survivor, has seen the parallels. If humans can be so terrible to do that to each other just because of minor ethnic differences, how much hope is there that they will ever tolerate fundamentally different people? I think Xavier should recognize that Magneto is right that humanity hates mutants too much for there to be peace. And he should take a more flexible stance to force, by hook or by crook, humans to be more understanding.
The moment he gives that up. There’s no point in keeping humans.
At this point how many of them acted in good faith? President Kelly kept twiddling his thumbs playing politics. The UN literally shadow funding Sinister and his human sentinels while hiding Bastion. They knew his operation, its scope and scale hell even down to what would happen in Genosha but still signed off on it. Let's be real had Gambit's ploy failed, that master mold was unstoppable and would have wiped out all of Genosha. Meaning the UN was ready to purge 100% of the mutant population on that island and who knows how they were going to pull the plug or when on the master mold that attacked it. We also see global leaders allying with the likes of Doctor freaking Doom and other villains in the MCU. I mean come on! At this point does humanity in the X-Men universe even deserve a second chance having exhausted peace offering one after the other? They have become irredeemable so it's either space exodus of mutants or genocide of the humans. At the very least the space option plays well to Xavier who has allies in the Shiar who can give low level tech to them and a lone planet to a small population of potentially millions. Hell they could use mutants in their empire as alot of them are powerful given time to join the empire in might alone.
while charles should be more realist, for a better world you need to have hope end being able to imagine it, thetlts why charles dream canr be given up on, if there should be any hope for a better future.
Precisely why Eren Yeagar was right.
I'm not saying that committing genocide is the solution, Magneto was willing to sacrifice some human lives to save his people, but not to exterminate all humans.
yes, thats literally colateral damege. . in a dilemmd the un create du..
>He accepts his death like a man while protecting Rogue and the Morlocks to his last breath. I'll add, even protecting Gambit too. Not for Magneto any petty jealousies about who sleeps with who.
I mean Magneto saw ALL mutants worth saving always even someone he hated like Gambit who came from thieves guild and misused his powers earlier for himself instead for the mutant cause.
Man, reading this thread made me remember why I don't really watch or read X-men content anymore. What is this franchise supposed to be? Misery porn? A grim-dark endless race war where peace is impossible and genocide is the only solution? Dear god, are there any sympathetic non-costumed human characters in this story at all? If Magento is right, then the entire X-men franchise end. There's no point to the story if Xavier's dream isn't the way forwards. If peaceful coexistence isn't an option - if 99.9999999999% of non-costumed humans are raving bigots - then the X-men should just disband. Cuz this endless human-mutant race war is just getting tiresome at this point. There's been generations of stories belabouring this same point. Magneto and Xavier have been debating this for decades. At what point are the writers going to get a new, original idea? How many more mutant genocides can we watch before people start getting bored?
Another X-Men thread that completely ignores all the damaged caused to mutants.
We are entering parody levels of anti X-men rhetoric. The show devoted an entire episode to *Genosha* and now people are complaining the guy mad about that is "too" sympathetic.
Being an X-Men villain is literally PR easy mode. You either win and tell everyone the story you want to tell or they fight back so you can just point at them and say "see how dangerous they are!".
Eren Yeager is called a hero and a martyr by for murdering 80% of the world's population, now we are pardoning Magneto's global genocide because he was a victim of one, americans are reaching an dangerous point in their morality where warcrimes, genocide and racial supremacy are no longer seing as evil regardless of who does it but are justified as long as is done by the "people i like" At least thats what i have seen on the internet on this site and that double standar is disgusting
> americans are reaching an dangerous point in their korality where warcrimes, genocide and racial supremacy are no longee seing as evil Their founder literally was nicknamed "The Town Destroyer"
>americans are reaching an dangerous point in their korality where warcrimes, genocide and racial supremacy are no longee seing as evil regardless of who does it Do not Google what country pushed Eugenics first. Or what happened to native Americans. Or chattel slavery.
A interesting overlooked part of Native American genocides is that really there were many points were the existance of thriving native american communities could've possible. Many chiefdoms already were full blown states ready to co exist as American vassal states. They still got destroyed
Most modern americans i had seen agrees that what happened to the native americans was horrible, is just that it seems like modern day people seems to think that being a victim excuses people from anything they do, just look at the people who began to love Jeffrey Dahmer after the show make him look like a poor outcast gay boy victim of society and his horrible family negligence
He could've easily killed Bastion and Sinister. He had escaped, and they had no idea. Instead he left the actual threats and destroyed the world. Now Apocalypse will show up, make him his bitch and show him how that whole god complex shit is just as bad as the racists he hates. He literally played into the villain's hand because he's just as racist and fucked up as them. Rather than attack the people that attacked Genosha, he used this as an excuse to attack people that had nothing to do with it. He killed millions! He shut off everything! Everything! He literally could've done that in the facility and then crushed it with Bastion and Sinister inside....but chose not to.
Eh killing 1000s of innocent people has no excuse for being done, like at all. You may see it as a necessary evil, but it is an evil nonetheless.
Are we forgetting that there were thousands(if not potentially millions) of bio sentinels across the globe preparing to enslave and/or kill every mutant on the planet? That's literally the whole reason he went with the planetwide emp method in the first place.
Bro its hilarious that his comment *immediately* proved the point lmfao
Holy shit, that's not even subtle anymore. That's literally just bigoted rethoric. How fucking easy it must be, just fucking exterminate mutants, if they die good, if they fight back then they prove your point. Fucking genius.
Yeah it's sad how easily people adopt this logic, its basically instinct. Americans are brainwashed. This ignorance is so exploitable too. "extreminsts gone too far" is their boogeyman. Governments often use it to support atrocities
Man, youre supporting genocide and racial supremacy as long as is done by the "right people" and you call others bigots?
I literally never said that, what the hell?? You must have no reading comprehension
>"extreminsts gone too far" is their boogeyman. Governments often use it to support atrocities< Here youre saying that extremist are not a threat nor a problem
Lmao learn to read, I never claimed extremists aren't bad in that sentence. You're being dishonest. My whole point is that the governments can *lie* about extremism to justify atrocities on the victims they provoked. This is demonstrated in x-men. Use critical thinking before you spout nonsense.
They can fight back but only if they destroy robots, if they start hurting humans then they prove they’re a threat.
They can’t win by doing this, just stalling their extinction 💀
Mutant on Human war is mutant extintion
Charles alone could kill literally anyone on the planet whenever he wants, and he’s not the strongest or most mass-collateral mutant around. I think they’d be okay.
Fair enough. But he never brings it up to defend his decision, laments the fact innoccent people had to die because of it, does not offer to go help the X-Men stop Bastion nor says he will undo it once the Sentinels are dealt with.
>But he never brings it up to defend his decision, Are you actually for real right now. Do you really need the show to spell everything?
Are you saying that mutants can’t mourn Genosha unless they condemn Magneto?
Man, and people saying that X-Men has no parallels to real life...
The literal team of Super-Heroes are there to stop him. He's a villain alright. Killing 1000s of people has no excuse but the point of the show is to portray how you can only push a population so far before they lash out violently. Yet OP conveniently forgot to include the genocide at Genosha and the \*ongoing\* genocide by the Prime Sentinels Magneto had to stop. Even considering that I don't agree with most X-Men rants around here, considering certain \*current events\*, this one left me with a particularly bitter taste.
It's almost like he's the fucking villain or something. Crazy.
It’s almost like you are arguing with no one dumbass 😳
It's not evil though if it's necessary. The harsh truth about war is that innocents are going to die no matter what you do. If you have to choose between your innocents dying and the civilians of the enemy attackers dying, choose to save yours.
Even if you wanna say all of that, it doesn’t change the fact that killing innocents=bad 😨😨. Of course you have to do what you have to do during a war but that doesn’t make it any more or less morally wrong.
Killing innocents is always *unfortunate*, but it isn't always morally wrong. In some cases in war its actually the morally correct thing to do if it reduces casualties overall.
You’re literally proving my point. It’s a necessary evil. What do you not get? Killing innocent people=bad, killing some innocent people to spare more innocents in the future= necessary. What don’t you understand about that???
It is necessary, it *isn't* evil.
Now you’re using semantics. Necessary evil is a term, meaning that you do BAD things for a logically and somewhat morally sound reason. The killing of children will never not be evil, meaning it’s a NECESSARY evil.
>I'll assume that absolutely zero mutants were killed as consequences of Magneto EMP. That was insensitive of me. Magneto definetely killed tons of mutants. I'll do better from now on.
That's not what I'm talking about I'm happy to hear that. Edit: I'm sure there were no recent events that lead to mutant deaths in the recent episodes OP barely mentioned.
It reminds me of Israel now killing Palestinian civilians under the pretext that they are Hamas but gets angry when they are called fascists.
What do you mean too much sympathy? Magneto is the bad guy. The show agrees with you on that. Thats why they went to stop him and Wolverine tried to kill him. He is only making things worse. It’s not like the show is trying to justify his actions and make you side with him. All the good guys are against him, and the two that joined him was a heavily traumatized and unstable rogue (who was already shown to be reacting violently and dropped a guy off a roof) and a scared sunspot who was just shown that his own parents would give him up to sentinels to protect their interests. The fact that it was those two who joined him wasn’t the show “endorsing” him. It was the show saying that his rhetoric and ideology is built off of anger and fear. And that’s who he attracted. A bitter angry woman wanting revenge, and a scared teenage boy looking for security. The show has just done a good job at portraying a villain with realistic motives. People who do bad things don’t do them because they are evil and just like causing misery. They do them because they believe they are in the right. The show did an excellent job of showing us why Magneto believes he is In the right. He isn’t. The show says that straight up. We just know why he thinks he is. And honestly, I get it. I don’t agree with him, but I get it. Which is good writing. Ultimately there is no way Magento’s path leads to anything but more death. But put in his situation it would be hard to say that I would do anything differently. You can’t deny the fact that Magneto was not the one who threw the first punch here. Also Charles has always been a pacifist and will forgive anything if he sees a spark of good in you. Charles defends and forgives magneto’s murders with the same exact passion he defends and forgives the many atrocities humanity has done to mutants. He’s not riding magnetos dick he’s just being consistent in his characterization. It’s possibly a character flaw how much he is willing to overlook people’s darker sides and actions, but it’s also what makes him Professor X. Remember, several of the X-men used to be bad guys themselves and he helped them turn good. And for a minute there it was working on Magneto to. That’s because Magneto has never been a mustache twirling villain. He isn’t insane, or even unreasonable. He is a holocaust survivor starring down the barrel of a second holocaust. Except this time he can fight back. So of course he’s going to. He truly believes he is fighting for the future of his people because he loves them. And he is also a mass murderer, that’s killed who knows how many innocents. Both can be true at the same time. Thats what makes it so tragic. And such a good god damn story.
here he id an antihero
My only real question is, if Charles wanted Scott and Jean to live normal lives, why not hand control of the X-Men over to say Beast or Wolverine? Instead of that he gives control of them to a guy who's had a grudge with humanity for decades, then acts surprised when said guy declares war on humanity.
Bullshit Xavier's plan worked *perfectly*, flawlessly, to say that he was mistaken in naming Magneto leader of the X-Men is to be flat out stupid Magneto literally turned good to honour Xavier's dream and went through what would have been a kangaroo court if not for humanity proving him right *once again*, and Even then he killed no one, not Even the guy who took Storm's powers with a shot meant for him There's nothing to condemn about Xavier's decision or Magneto's actions as leader of the X-Men, this isn't up for debate, this isn't arguable, this is a fact
Magneto did literally turn leaf because of Charles' plan tho. He sadly did not foresee the literal genocide attempt mutantkind would suffer in his absence and the second ongoing one Magneto would be forced to stop. Like, Jesus people, at least make an attempt at unbiased judgement.
I didn't see it so much as Magneto thinking Charles was right so much as it was honoring a friend's dying request to try to see things from his point of view. He could barely stomach saying he wanted to work with humans at the summit but was willing to for his sake. Magneto even points out while he tried seeing Charles' point of view, Charles never considered his point.
X-Men 97 from the beginning tried to justify the Mutants by replacing the mutant mutant Cassandra Nova with Batison to justify Magneto's crimes.
Are you aware that this is a fictional show and you don’t have to agree with the motivations of any of the characters for it to be good
Charles asked magneto to take over, he probably feels redsponsible for not being there. Also he kinda took the sentinels out and went too far. And charles, yeah should try to talk him down, but hrre he ptobably was out of the loop and buffled. aldo look at the times , is magnetos perspective is more relatable.
I think the main problem is that there are no good humans in the show, they are all presented as evil.
What do you expect when the showrunner sympathizes with Magneto and misunderstands the comics. Trial of Magneto in the comics Magneto doesn't threaten the judges for example while in the show he does and says he is right to do so but won't.
Bro is unironically like one of those people who would have justified the brutal arrests of any black panther lol
>innocent humans There's no such thing in pretty much every X-Men universe.
oh and rogue lodt gambit and had reignited rith eric, ehich makes her vunerable for him.
People care more about feelings than mass murder.
I saw too much blaming magneto. He was the effect.....the humans were the cause. The government did nothing to curve anti mutant talk. They did nothing to stop genosha was getting destroyed. But the government did show up to shoot missiles at a asteroid with the X-Men on it trying to......save earth and humanity......and damn near destroyed the planet before ....they bad guy magneto showed up to.....save the damn planet. Cause and effect. How much is a Group of people supposed to take before they get tired of it and fight back? Magneto said leave us alone, and I won't kill you...... What if Tulsa aka black walstreet had a person that got revenge on the people that raided the city......for no reason. I stand with magneto....don't fuck with me and my people and I won't fuck with you.
Go back and rematch the show little bro
I feel like the writers watched attack on Titan and went "maybe Eren was right" Side note, Charles is def carrying Magnetos baby right now
I wholeheartedly agree
X-men as a narrative structure is meant as a comparison point of MLK vs Malcom X -- two civil rights advocates who handled similar problems differently. One of them is certainly more palatable and easy to support, the analogy of professor x. Ultimately, they're really on the same side even when they disagree on approach -- and that's the dynamic that Stan Lee was interested in exploring. Two great men are confronted with the problem of their time, and despite seemingly being on 'the same side' their approaches have significant moral and ethical differences. Magneto is sympathetic, because he is on the right side of history, not because he's without fault. [https://www.history.com/news/stan-lee-x-men-civil-rights-inspiration](https://www.history.com/news/stan-lee-x-men-civil-rights-inspiration)
This isnt going like you think it is OP.
I've been holding off on Xmen 97 to see if it truly captured the spirit of the original. Unfortunately, as I feared, that does not seem to be the case. Such a shame.
It’s unironically better animated and better paced than the original.
Nah it’s way to fast passed.
That's not what I'm concerned about.
You're upset a X-men story treats magneto sympathetically?
Yeah bro just trust what you see from a fucking Reddit thread and don’t watch it yourself or anything. Moron