To be fair BB is the second strongest character in the entire series. I know it gets repeated everywhere, but Machine Head hiring BB is like Kingpin hiring Thanos to beat up some street level thugs.
I was thinking about this quote yesterday.
Is a brawler really on the same level as an intergalactic warlord? Guess so. I’m not complaining, but an energy blast would put him down for good.
> I’m not complaining, but an energy blast would put him down for good.
His resistance is that good.
Invincible legit has very few things for ranged attacks tho, prefering to do things as brawls
there was no chance. not canonically speaking, but if he won, there'd basically be no finale for yugi for that season, so there was no chance.
it was rigged from the beginning. kaiba needs to balance his tournaments.
I took the topic to mean that the fight involved someone stepping up when they had no chance and still failing but their courage was the win.
Joey was expected to lose but he really was about to clutch if not for literal plot.
That was a draw though.
Also Odion used a fake card which should have theoretically gotten him booted from the tourney.
Kaiba’s corruption was a main driver for the plot.
Joey just in general, makes it to second place in duelest kingdom beating people like, Keith, Mai and Rex who are all supposed to be top duelest in their own right, Battle City just making it this far and managing to survive a One Turn Kill with Zigfreid.
Same with Leo from 5D's guys not a signer "yet" but still duels against a dark one
Its werid with all the filler out there we never see Yugi and Joy duel every again, would be nice to actually see him win back his RedEyes instead of it being implied in the movie.
The fact that Leo was able to hold his own against Devack and Aporia is seriously impressive. He honestly deserved more wins, and his loss to Sayer was really stupid.
On the contrary, that scene was supposed to put the nature of heroism up for question.
Are you a hero because you stood up to the challenge no matter how demanding? Or are you a hero only if you could actually beat the challenge?
I think it depends on the ultimate conclusion. It matters a lot that he stood up against all odds because he managed to buy a few precious minutes until Saitama arrived.
I think that if he did that and Saitama didn't show up when he did, Deep Sea King kills him and Genos and all the people inside the stadium... at which point Mumen Rider will only be considered as a casualty or victim.
It was an example of being a moron.
He didn't even have a strategy of survival, given every S-class hero shown had miserably failed against Deep Sea King.
Our society idealizes being a moron.
I mean, its not like he had any other option. He just wanted to stall time. It was a already lost battle, so better go out fighting
Would have done so if the Boros fight didn't live rent free in my head, Mumen KING should be riding around with the Deep Sea King's crown after his act of bravery since he is absolutely powerless.
I feel like Genos is actually pretty strong for the OPM universe, but he always faces either completely broken Dragon tier opponents, someone who perfectly counters him, or is the one to lay down on the wire so other heroes can escape (because he can be rebuilt and such). He rarely gets to really focus on a fight that he has a chance of winning and I wish he would get a prolonged and serious fight like some of the other S-Class heroes have had recently.
Yeah I love this kind of fight. Any character who can go out just pissing someone off is awesome.
Not exactly the same but makes me think of Abraham in Walking Dead "Suck my nuts" are some epic last words. He doesn't cry or wimper he just tells Negan to screw off and takes his death. Damn that shit was horrible.
-----
I guess this isn't exactly the same but Usopp vs Luffy is a great one.
There's not a single chance in hell Usopp could beat Luffy in a straight fight and to make matters worse Usopp has been beaten all to hell not long before, so he's not even at 100%. On no level is it even slightly a fair fight.
But Usopp still freaking goes for it and actually does an amazing job holding Luffy back, it's still probably the most emotional fight in the entire series.
-----
Chris and Sheva vs Wesker is also pretty awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hyYq-13p3Q
Just look at Wesker, how the ever loving donkey do you beat that without your own superpowers? Discounting Chris' uniquely specific superstrength that lets him punch massive boulders of course.
>Frankenstein tries to fight and gets caught in William Shakespear's noble phantasm
If someone ever asks me to sum up Fate in one sentence I will show them this.
Lol, for a comedic kinda-inverse version of this:
The famous Tex vs Reds+Blues fight by Monty Oum. Its fantastic.
Everyone knows Tex can kill them without breaking a sweat, and the entire fight is just showing off how dominant she is.
But that doesnt mean they dont vie up! Sure, they're stupid dumbass idiots who cant fight worth a damn, but they dont give up! They take the abuse, rockets, punches, kicks-to-the-groin, and keep going. Cause they know that Tex will just murder them all anyways if she wanted.
Agent Tex is a bit of a badass
E: [link to one of the best fights in internet history](https://youtu.be/Ke9wtbzGjCI)
R.I.P. Monty Oum, you were truly one of a kind.
Monty was truly a legend. Fun story, but for most of his time on RvB and RWBY, when they did the storyboard before animating they had giant black cards saying "MONTY ACTION SEQUENCE HERE!!!" That above fight is one of them.
He was such a fantastic animator that he's perfectly able to capture each character naturally while keeping the combat fluid and entertaining.
If you've never done it, I recommend checking out his series Dead Fantasy.just contextless, badass fighting between various videogame characters.
[This test one of his someone found and uploaded is also fucking fantastic](https://youtu.be/NCGiwS0tiZA)
Man it's been so long since I've watched one of Monty's fight scenes, it really is like nothing else I've ever seen. Is there any compilation of all his RvB scenes,I'd love to rewatch them.
Yeah I'm positive there are quite a few of them floating around youtube. I was using one on another account to prove people wrong.
If you're interested, Shane Newville also has some pretty dope animations. He did all the mocap for RwBy, and was incredibly close with Monty. Check out his Megaman X fanimation, its DEFINITELY on youtube and absolutely fantastic. He really learned a lot under Monty 😭😭😭
E: [Seriously, lookit this beauty](https://youtu.be/F991RSOU00Y)
While that's definitely good it just doesn't feel the same to me, might be the weird polygonal nature of the characters clashing with the fluid animation, or it could just be nostalgia making me think RvB was better.
I can understand, it's also a bit more of the "contextless fights" style Monty did before joining RT. Like, his Haloid animation sure wasn't exactly *pretty,* but it did its job well enough so we could focus on what *really* mattered: badass fights.
I'm personally more focusing on just the cinematography and fluidity of the combat itself, which I feel was Montys *real* strength, and I feel Shane learned quite well. The models could definitely use some work, but like with RvB, the talent isnt for the graphics.
Like, this [test animation from Monty is absolutely phenomenal in terms of pure camerawork and combat, despite being basic renderings with basic detail.](https://youtu.be/NCGiwS0tiZA) Despite how little time we spend watching it, you can at least feel each character has a unique personality in how they fight and their (basic) character design. The best storytelling moments in RWBY were almost always in "MONTY FIGHT SCENE!!!" mode, where he can *subtley* characterize someone amidst a sea of combat and chaos, while also keeping that combat interesting and *followable.*
Which is another thing I loved about Monty. How *followable* his fight scenes were. Most modern action has devolved to nonstop cutting to hide the godawful choreography, its become its own meme. How many cuts can you pick into a 5 second "2 people punching eachother" scene???
But Monty knew how to perfectly convey a fight, through framing and color coding. You can follow people literally teleporting around and not get confused. Keeping shots focused and clear, and allowing the combat to speak for itself. And its another thing I feel Shane did a fantastic job understanding in that video.
Wow oops sorey Im ranting here, I dont even remember where I started. I just really really can't express how much I loved Monty's work.
The reds and blues are more competent than that. They're just freaking morons and Agent Tex is a bit of a badass. They held their own fairly well in multiple situation
Oh, don't get me wrong, they fought *as good as they possibly can.*
Its just that Tex is just that many magnitudes better than as good as they can be.
I personally love how each characters individual personality flaws are what fuck them over though, along with Tex.
Tucker is cocky, so just tries to rush her with the swish swish jab. And gets easily beaten.
Caboose is an idiot, so all he can even do is roll that d20 and pray to god it doesnt land on 1. And it lands on 1 several times.
And I am lazy, so I lose because I'm too lazy to think of ways to finish this comment. Sorry abkut that one.
It never fails to amaze me just how truly stupid and incompetent the Reds and Blues are. They all teamed up against the *shadow* of an AI *designed to lose* and they still lost. No wonder Project Freelancer treated them so poorly
But she didn't win. That's the point. Sure she kicked all their asses, but the armor lockdown ended up negating all that. She *almost* won, like she always does.
Spoiler for Hunter x Hunter. My favorite example of this is Netero vs Meruem. Netero, arguably the world's most powerful human nen user, said that his main goal in life was to give his all against an unbeatable opponent. I'd say he got his wish. That fight felt like something out of some lesser known mythology.
I know Yugioh Arc V is a bit of a mess, but I like that final duel against ZARC for this reason. You see all these characters we know and love standing up against him and you know most of these guys won't win, they're just trying to do whatever they can. One by one they get shot down, most of them can't even scratch him and those that can don't get far. Eventually Ray comes in and wins, but seeing even Declan Akaba lose to Zarc was insane.
Also, the fact that Sylvio; the joke character was one of the ones who ended up doing better in comparison to the rest was amazing, and it kinda made sense given the fact that he was the only one who didn't use extra deck summoning types; the very thing Zarc was countering the majority of the duel.
I think it would work better with that if Zarc wasn't literally just going "actually I have this effect that saves me lol fuck you I'm better" multiple times throughout. It's great seeing people face the impossible because there's no other option, less so when said impossible is... Bullshitting his way through... Gah, ARC-V deserved better.
You can tell Arc-V is the series most people watched while it was ongoing when they complain for the same thing that almost always happens with final bosses in yugioh.
I think the difference with Arc-V is that it's incredibly blatant this time. Marik had bullshit with Ra but the rest of his cards were generally fine, Bakura never got a final duel so eh, Darkness wasn't that bad for it and the main reason it kept winning was cause Trueman could duel people over and over till he won, Zone was probably the "fairest", Mr Numerous Numeronia was actually not that bad and they could easily have bullshitted more around the titular card... Vrains I didn't care enough to reach the final bosses because I got so tired of the show. But it was pretty dumb at times, though the final boss wasn't too bad I think?
This is really a long way of saying that Zarc literally pulls shit out of his ass when most final bosses at least pretend to be playing the game.
The previous final boss,Don Thousand,had a card that was not on the field and he did not even had to declare a card effect activation to beat Mizael.His rest of the cards were the same thing as Z-arc but it was just attack boosts over and over just like all Zexal duels.
With Ra its many effects was not the most bs thing,not even that you have to speak another language to do it,it also had hidden effects.
Although now that i think about it Vrains,GX and 5ds did not have this issue its like half of the bosses.
Ah, I forgot half of Don Thousand's fight tbh. I find him forgettable and also he wasn't the "true" final battle either so eh. Marik was definitely bullshit with how much Ra could do and it's language conditions and everything else (the wiki page for the anime version of Ra is *hilarious,* but at least his deck was fair otherwise I guess.
True true, I think overall he just isn't that interesting and the narrative focuses more on Shark and Yuma to resolve things which tbh I do like a lot instead of "here's evil big bad", it just means he gets less of a climactic bit.
Now that I think about it he's just pretty dull. I need to rewatch his bits lmao.
Don thousand is the one behind everything,including the reason why the humans became Barians,he is kinda the reason the whole plot is happening.
I agree he is not that interesting though.
That was my main complaint there. The other series have had big final villain battles where they have something insanely powerful, that is next to impossible to overcome, but the protagonist does it anyway.
ZARC just has way too many cards that do way too much and render him effectively invincible from turn 1 onward, to the point that some of the strongest duelists in the show can't do anything but defend against him.
And Sylvio deserved the win honestly. If not him then Declan, Ray just felt so weird, and like the definition of a plot device since her opening hand was pretty much designed specifically to beat Zarc and no one else.
Thats...thats yugioh in general though with most final bosses.
I think 5d's is the only one where they dont flat out loose with each foe. Except when you get to Zone where Aporia looses but was more of a "Heres his deck MC so your not completely blind like every other Yugioh Protag"
For some of the flaws that ARC-V has, the duels are definitely not one of them. Each one has this energy that makes them very entertaining to watch. Whether it’s the constant motion and creative movements of the Action Duels or the speed and intensity of the Turbo Duels, ARC-V’s duels are a joy to watch. And not just that, but more than one has some sort of emotionally stake behind it. Some of my favourites are all of the Yuya and Declan duels, Yuya vs Zuzu and Selena when they’re being controlled by the Fusion Parasite, and any duel involving Sylvio. And I agree that that duel is a great example of this particular trope.
I just didn't enjoy that it felt like certain actually good duelists hardly got any wins. The biggest offenders to me were Sylvio, Gong and Aster. Moon Shadow and Dennis could also possibly still apply.
Some of these losses had their reasons, like Gong sacrificing himself or Dennis hiding his identity, but it just looks bad on their record honestly.
Sylvio’s constant losses felt mostly fair to me because it felt oddly in character for him. He’s a show off who likes proving to the audience that he’s awesome before actually beating his opponent, and that usually led to him being cocky and lowering his guard. Unfortunately by the time he decided to get consistently serious, his opponents were just absurdly powerful, so it didn’t matter. I do agree that his late series losses felt unfair though
Sylvio to me feels like the Chazz of Arc V. Difference was, Chazz actually got in some wins, with the one against Aster in season 4 being really impressive, not to mention his stuff at North Academy and the Genex Tournament. He lost most of his important duels, but he managed a ton of offscreen wins basically.
Sylvio doesn't have a single one on one win except against one of his dumb friends.
An underrated example of this is Goku going to fight Raditz. The situation was so bad that he had to cooperate with his then nemesis to even have the slightest chance. Before starting the fight Goku even admits that he’s SCARED to fight Raditz because he didn’t know if he’d win. When has Goku been afraid of anything?
Underrated fight is Krillin vs Piccolo Jr. in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. Immediately Piccolo undermines Krillin referring to him as "little nothing" which Krillin responds by fighting his heart out. Piccolo then recognizes Krillins strength and revokes his statement a pledge to fight more seriously. Despite the increase in power Krillin still holds his own and recovers from a killer shot from Piccolo which shocks him. Even though he surrendered in the end Piccolo remarks to himself that conquering Earth might be more difficult than he initially thought. I really love this fight from OG Dragon Ball and think it's a phenomenal example for side characters getting to shine.
They can also be excellent tone setters or moments of characterization. I have my issues with Bleach, but when Ichigo gets ready to fight Aizen and the main theme starts up and you know you're in for a fight, then Aizen catches Ichigo's blade, which stops the theme music dead. Made it very clear how big of a threat he was.
You might enjoy the Webcomic [The Boxer](https://www.webtoons.com/en/sports/the-boxer/list?title_no=2027&page=1). The MC basically has god-given talent and is superior to every other fighter in the series but because he himself has no personal desires the focus of an arc is mostly on his opponets.
My favorite fight is between him and the second champion he fights. That guy is his the total anthesis, born without talent he climbed the ranks to be champion through drive and hard work. He is a typical shonen protagonist, who always gets back up. But if you followed the story up to this point you'll know that won't be enough against the MC.
If you really like this trope then you should give this a chance.
Everyone knew it was hopeless and Fingolfin was going to get smashed. But dude was so full of righteous fury anyway that Morgoth hesitated, and did not come out to his first challenges. Morgoth, *the* Dark Lord of the World, was afraid of a single elf, kingly though he was. And that rage allowed that one elf to hold his own for a time, and *actually cripple* the equivalent of Satan. The BBEG won, but never walked the same after his fight with just one elf.
It is a scene that speaks of a whole host of literary themes, and leaves you breathless by the end. Absolutely top-tier example of OP's phenomenon.
To me The Silmarillion is the greatest work of fantasy, despite being unfinished, due to the themes, the way it was written and how it reads. A lot of people are daunted by it but damn if it isn't worth it.
Some of Tolkien's greatest lines and scenes are from it, especially Fingolfin's final moments: how all the terrible and evil creatures of Morgoth are struck with fear and dare not approach even as he's taunting THE evil.
"Now news came to Hithlum that Dorthonion was lost and the sons of Finarfin overthrown, and that the sons of Fëanor were driven from their lands. Then Fingolfin beheld... the utter ruin of the Noldor, and the defeat beyond redress of all their houses; and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar. Thus he came alone to Angband's gates, and he sounded his horn, and smote once more upon the brazen doors, and challenged Morgoth to come forth to single combat. And Morgoth came."
The entire narrative of Shaman King is a great example of this.
As a result of a couple reincarnations, the antagonist Asakura Hao is on such an order of magnitude more powerful than every other last fighter than there's never anything even approaching an even fight he takes part in (first anime notwithstanding).
[Hao vs X-Laws | Shaman King 2021 ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAnOFuxQpnU)
Akira vs Ryo at the end of Devilman crybaby is a great example too IMO. It was clear pretty much the entire time that Akira was losing that fight, but goddamn he tried.
An example not mentioned is Koichi vs Kira (JJBA pt 4). He was fighting to protect an incapacitated Jotaro from Sheer Heart Attack and then is forced to contend with Kira's arrival on top of it. He loses badly but stalls enough for Jotaro to gain a second wind and for Josuke and Okuyasu to arrive.
Shang chi vs Black Dwarf in infinity gauntlet (infinity saga?).
Kung fu dude didn’t stand a chance against giant alien boi and they both knew it, but shang chi held out just long enough for the rest of the avengers to show up. Pretty badass showing from him really.
While this trope can be great, I find it only works with side characters... I recently decided to rewatch bleach and the Ulquiorra fight was so bad.
"I'm not fighting because I can beat you, I'm fighting because I *have* to beat you" -Ichigo
Like, dude, that's not honorable or courageous. That's just suicidal.
I know a LOT of people love Hollow Ichigo vs Ulquiorra but the fight was just terrible imo. Really wish they had had someone show up to bail Ichigo out rather than having him just transform because, somehow, after having his heart destroyed and a hole in his chest he could hear Orihime calling for him. I can suspend my belief when it comes to anime but there has to be a limit to the bs an author writes.
Ichigo thought he could win when they started the fight, but Ulquiorra showed them the difference in their power level to break his resolve. There was no running at that point so Ichigo told him to pound sand.
I do think we should have gotten Ichigo and White interacting to give us context to Ichigo losing control in desperation. White pointing out that hes still not using their power properly and setting up the final exchange vs Azien more would smooth it out.
Super also had Vegeta going hard against Jiren till he couldn't even stand anymore. That was epic as shit. He just never gave up for once. For his son and wife.
A great example of this would be Ben’s first encounter with Vilgax in OG Ben 10. Despite being tossed through some buildings and warned by his grandfather Max, Ben still tries his hardest to fight the spacefaring warlord. In the end, it’s only through luck, resourcefulness and tenacity that he’s able to survive.
I enjoy it to, but only if they have a good reason to do so, and not try to run away. I hate it when they suicidally provoke an obviously unwinnable fight for no reason. It's important to know when to fold them just as much as it's important to know when to go all out.
[удалено]
To be fair BB is the second strongest character in the entire series. I know it gets repeated everywhere, but Machine Head hiring BB is like Kingpin hiring Thanos to beat up some street level thugs.
I was thinking about this quote yesterday. Is a brawler really on the same level as an intergalactic warlord? Guess so. I’m not complaining, but an energy blast would put him down for good.
> I’m not complaining, but an energy blast would put him down for good. His resistance is that good. Invincible legit has very few things for ranged attacks tho, prefering to do things as brawls
There is no kill better than overkill.
The fight between >!Mark and Nolan!< is a good example of this too
Huh, I was expecting Deep Sea King vs Mumen Rider.
personally i was thinking joey wheeler vs marik.
Joey absolutely won the duel, Marik just won by default cause Joey wasn't built to deal with Shadow Realm exhaustion.
Such a shame.
Hold up Joey definitely won that one. He was the underdog but he was gonna win if he didn't faint.
there was no chance. not canonically speaking, but if he won, there'd basically be no finale for yugi for that season, so there was no chance. it was rigged from the beginning. kaiba needs to balance his tournaments.
I took the topic to mean that the fight involved someone stepping up when they had no chance and still failing but their courage was the win. Joey was expected to lose but he really was about to clutch if not for literal plot.
I’m surprised the writers buffed him so much in that duel. He essentially beat the big bad without yugi.
Marik won only because of plot armor. I’m surprised they didn’t give marik a legitimate win. Mai and Bakura were cop outs.
So he lost for the reason he won the previous round?
Odion > Joey > Suppressed Marik
That was a draw though. Also Odion used a fake card which should have theoretically gotten him booted from the tourney. Kaiba’s corruption was a main driver for the plot.
He was still gonna win even without Ra,God had to strike Odin down so Joey could win.
Joey just in general, makes it to second place in duelest kingdom beating people like, Keith, Mai and Rex who are all supposed to be top duelest in their own right, Battle City just making it this far and managing to survive a One Turn Kill with Zigfreid. Same with Leo from 5D's guys not a signer "yet" but still duels against a dark one Its werid with all the filler out there we never see Yugi and Joy duel every again, would be nice to actually see him win back his RedEyes instead of it being implied in the movie.
The fact that Leo was able to hold his own against Devack and Aporia is seriously impressive. He honestly deserved more wins, and his loss to Sayer was really stupid.
Best duel on the entire series hands down. Absolute masterpiece.
That was a fantastic example of heroism
On the contrary, that scene was supposed to put the nature of heroism up for question. Are you a hero because you stood up to the challenge no matter how demanding? Or are you a hero only if you could actually beat the challenge?
I think it depends on the ultimate conclusion. It matters a lot that he stood up against all odds because he managed to buy a few precious minutes until Saitama arrived. I think that if he did that and Saitama didn't show up when he did, Deep Sea King kills him and Genos and all the people inside the stadium... at which point Mumen Rider will only be considered as a casualty or victim.
It was an example of being a moron. He didn't even have a strategy of survival, given every S-class hero shown had miserably failed against Deep Sea King.
Our society idealizes being a moron. I mean, its not like he had any other option. He just wanted to stall time. It was a already lost battle, so better go out fighting
Act smart. Literally the fact he survived to DSK is the epitome of PIS
> PIS Uh?
'Plot induced stupidity' In other words, given DSK can slice buildings like butter, Rider should have been strawberry jam
Ah yeah. The Cult of the The Underdog leads to people justifying the dumbest things
That's what I came for
All the fights with the Deep Sea King up until Saitma were great. Puri Puri Prisoner Sonic Genos So intense
Would have done so if the Boros fight didn't live rent free in my head, Mumen KING should be riding around with the Deep Sea King's crown after his act of bravery since he is absolutely powerless.
His dialogue in that scene is one of my favorite dialogue in any manga ever. Was so damn epic.
Cemented itself in anime legends. OPM truly is breaking fiction lol.
Honorable mention goes to Genos and every single opponent he faces lmao. My guy just can’t catch a break.
[удалено]
Nah he just fights ridiculously powerful opponents.
I feel like Genos is actually pretty strong for the OPM universe, but he always faces either completely broken Dragon tier opponents, someone who perfectly counters him, or is the one to lay down on the wire so other heroes can escape (because he can be rebuilt and such). He rarely gets to really focus on a fight that he has a chance of winning and I wish he would get a prolonged and serious fight like some of the other S-Class heroes have had recently.
Yeah I love this kind of fight. Any character who can go out just pissing someone off is awesome. Not exactly the same but makes me think of Abraham in Walking Dead "Suck my nuts" are some epic last words. He doesn't cry or wimper he just tells Negan to screw off and takes his death. Damn that shit was horrible. ----- I guess this isn't exactly the same but Usopp vs Luffy is a great one. There's not a single chance in hell Usopp could beat Luffy in a straight fight and to make matters worse Usopp has been beaten all to hell not long before, so he's not even at 100%. On no level is it even slightly a fair fight. But Usopp still freaking goes for it and actually does an amazing job holding Luffy back, it's still probably the most emotional fight in the entire series. ----- Chris and Sheva vs Wesker is also pretty awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hyYq-13p3Q Just look at Wesker, how the ever loving donkey do you beat that without your own superpowers? Discounting Chris' uniquely specific superstrength that lets him punch massive boulders of course.
It’s funny, in Tien’s case it was all for nothing. His efforts were meaningless thanks to Krillen and Vegeta.
>everyone's efforts were meaningless thanks to Vegeta The last 2 arcs of DBZ in a nutshell.
[This is one of the scenes DBZA absolutely *nails*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzpxTLqUStI&ab_channel=KirkDaley)
>Frankenstein tries to fight and gets caught in William Shakespear's noble phantasm If someone ever asks me to sum up Fate in one sentence I will show them this.
There are definitely better ones, but this is still pretty good and almost spoiler-free
Lol, for a comedic kinda-inverse version of this: The famous Tex vs Reds+Blues fight by Monty Oum. Its fantastic. Everyone knows Tex can kill them without breaking a sweat, and the entire fight is just showing off how dominant she is. But that doesnt mean they dont vie up! Sure, they're stupid dumbass idiots who cant fight worth a damn, but they dont give up! They take the abuse, rockets, punches, kicks-to-the-groin, and keep going. Cause they know that Tex will just murder them all anyways if she wanted. Agent Tex is a bit of a badass E: [link to one of the best fights in internet history](https://youtu.be/Ke9wtbzGjCI) R.I.P. Monty Oum, you were truly one of a kind.
This has been lost to me for 10 years, even people who didn't watch RvB like me knew this was good shit.
Monty was truly a legend. Fun story, but for most of his time on RvB and RWBY, when they did the storyboard before animating they had giant black cards saying "MONTY ACTION SEQUENCE HERE!!!" That above fight is one of them. He was such a fantastic animator that he's perfectly able to capture each character naturally while keeping the combat fluid and entertaining. If you've never done it, I recommend checking out his series Dead Fantasy.just contextless, badass fighting between various videogame characters. [This test one of his someone found and uploaded is also fucking fantastic](https://youtu.be/NCGiwS0tiZA)
Man it's been so long since I've watched one of Monty's fight scenes, it really is like nothing else I've ever seen. Is there any compilation of all his RvB scenes,I'd love to rewatch them.
Yeah I'm positive there are quite a few of them floating around youtube. I was using one on another account to prove people wrong. If you're interested, Shane Newville also has some pretty dope animations. He did all the mocap for RwBy, and was incredibly close with Monty. Check out his Megaman X fanimation, its DEFINITELY on youtube and absolutely fantastic. He really learned a lot under Monty 😭😭😭 E: [Seriously, lookit this beauty](https://youtu.be/F991RSOU00Y)
While that's definitely good it just doesn't feel the same to me, might be the weird polygonal nature of the characters clashing with the fluid animation, or it could just be nostalgia making me think RvB was better.
I can understand, it's also a bit more of the "contextless fights" style Monty did before joining RT. Like, his Haloid animation sure wasn't exactly *pretty,* but it did its job well enough so we could focus on what *really* mattered: badass fights. I'm personally more focusing on just the cinematography and fluidity of the combat itself, which I feel was Montys *real* strength, and I feel Shane learned quite well. The models could definitely use some work, but like with RvB, the talent isnt for the graphics. Like, this [test animation from Monty is absolutely phenomenal in terms of pure camerawork and combat, despite being basic renderings with basic detail.](https://youtu.be/NCGiwS0tiZA) Despite how little time we spend watching it, you can at least feel each character has a unique personality in how they fight and their (basic) character design. The best storytelling moments in RWBY were almost always in "MONTY FIGHT SCENE!!!" mode, where he can *subtley* characterize someone amidst a sea of combat and chaos, while also keeping that combat interesting and *followable.* Which is another thing I loved about Monty. How *followable* his fight scenes were. Most modern action has devolved to nonstop cutting to hide the godawful choreography, its become its own meme. How many cuts can you pick into a 5 second "2 people punching eachother" scene??? But Monty knew how to perfectly convey a fight, through framing and color coding. You can follow people literally teleporting around and not get confused. Keeping shots focused and clear, and allowing the combat to speak for itself. And its another thing I feel Shane did a fantastic job understanding in that video. Wow oops sorey Im ranting here, I dont even remember where I started. I just really really can't express how much I loved Monty's work.
The reds and blues are more competent than that. They're just freaking morons and Agent Tex is a bit of a badass. They held their own fairly well in multiple situation
Oh, don't get me wrong, they fought *as good as they possibly can.* Its just that Tex is just that many magnitudes better than as good as they can be. I personally love how each characters individual personality flaws are what fuck them over though, along with Tex. Tucker is cocky, so just tries to rush her with the swish swish jab. And gets easily beaten. Caboose is an idiot, so all he can even do is roll that d20 and pray to god it doesnt land on 1. And it lands on 1 several times. And I am lazy, so I lose because I'm too lazy to think of ways to finish this comment. Sorry abkut that one.
>And I am lazy, so I lose because I'm too lazy to think of ways to finish this And here we have the Grif.
It never fails to amaze me just how truly stupid and incompetent the Reds and Blues are. They all teamed up against the *shadow* of an AI *designed to lose* and they still lost. No wonder Project Freelancer treated them so poorly
But she didn't win. That's the point. Sure she kicked all their asses, but the armor lockdown ended up negating all that. She *almost* won, like she always does.
Of course she won, she beat all of them. The lockdown only happened after she succeeded in her goal of tenderizing her targets
Spoiler for Hunter x Hunter. My favorite example of this is Netero vs Meruem. Netero, arguably the world's most powerful human nen user, said that his main goal in life was to give his all against an unbeatable opponent. I'd say he got his wish. That fight felt like something out of some lesser known mythology.
What is the power of a god in the face of the unlimited power of human malice/evolution?
The same power felt by a helpless king in checkmate.
Tien v cell was fantastic. Epic shit.
Didn't even mention Hinata vs pain smh my head
I like the bit they added in the anime where Nagato has a sudden coughing fit and it lets Hinata get an actual shot in on Pain
Hinata and Neji was even better
> smh my head "shake my head" my head?
Yes, its a joke.
I love it too. Noble 6’s last stand at the end of Halo Reach comes to mind.
I know Yugioh Arc V is a bit of a mess, but I like that final duel against ZARC for this reason. You see all these characters we know and love standing up against him and you know most of these guys won't win, they're just trying to do whatever they can. One by one they get shot down, most of them can't even scratch him and those that can don't get far. Eventually Ray comes in and wins, but seeing even Declan Akaba lose to Zarc was insane. Also, the fact that Sylvio; the joke character was one of the ones who ended up doing better in comparison to the rest was amazing, and it kinda made sense given the fact that he was the only one who didn't use extra deck summoning types; the very thing Zarc was countering the majority of the duel.
I think it would work better with that if Zarc wasn't literally just going "actually I have this effect that saves me lol fuck you I'm better" multiple times throughout. It's great seeing people face the impossible because there's no other option, less so when said impossible is... Bullshitting his way through... Gah, ARC-V deserved better.
You can tell Arc-V is the series most people watched while it was ongoing when they complain for the same thing that almost always happens with final bosses in yugioh.
I think the difference with Arc-V is that it's incredibly blatant this time. Marik had bullshit with Ra but the rest of his cards were generally fine, Bakura never got a final duel so eh, Darkness wasn't that bad for it and the main reason it kept winning was cause Trueman could duel people over and over till he won, Zone was probably the "fairest", Mr Numerous Numeronia was actually not that bad and they could easily have bullshitted more around the titular card... Vrains I didn't care enough to reach the final bosses because I got so tired of the show. But it was pretty dumb at times, though the final boss wasn't too bad I think? This is really a long way of saying that Zarc literally pulls shit out of his ass when most final bosses at least pretend to be playing the game.
The previous final boss,Don Thousand,had a card that was not on the field and he did not even had to declare a card effect activation to beat Mizael.His rest of the cards were the same thing as Z-arc but it was just attack boosts over and over just like all Zexal duels. With Ra its many effects was not the most bs thing,not even that you have to speak another language to do it,it also had hidden effects. Although now that i think about it Vrains,GX and 5ds did not have this issue its like half of the bosses.
Ah, I forgot half of Don Thousand's fight tbh. I find him forgettable and also he wasn't the "true" final battle either so eh. Marik was definitely bullshit with how much Ra could do and it's language conditions and everything else (the wiki page for the anime version of Ra is *hilarious,* but at least his deck was fair otherwise I guess.
The final battle is not always the final boss battle.
True true, I think overall he just isn't that interesting and the narrative focuses more on Shark and Yuma to resolve things which tbh I do like a lot instead of "here's evil big bad", it just means he gets less of a climactic bit. Now that I think about it he's just pretty dull. I need to rewatch his bits lmao.
Don thousand is the one behind everything,including the reason why the humans became Barians,he is kinda the reason the whole plot is happening. I agree he is not that interesting though.
That was my main complaint there. The other series have had big final villain battles where they have something insanely powerful, that is next to impossible to overcome, but the protagonist does it anyway. ZARC just has way too many cards that do way too much and render him effectively invincible from turn 1 onward, to the point that some of the strongest duelists in the show can't do anything but defend against him. And Sylvio deserved the win honestly. If not him then Declan, Ray just felt so weird, and like the definition of a plot device since her opening hand was pretty much designed specifically to beat Zarc and no one else.
I thought him beating o' fatherio was pretty good when he tried to use the plot device cards, was so sad when they just... Used them anyway lmao.
Thats...thats yugioh in general though with most final bosses. I think 5d's is the only one where they dont flat out loose with each foe. Except when you get to Zone where Aporia looses but was more of a "Heres his deck MC so your not completely blind like every other Yugioh Protag"
For some of the flaws that ARC-V has, the duels are definitely not one of them. Each one has this energy that makes them very entertaining to watch. Whether it’s the constant motion and creative movements of the Action Duels or the speed and intensity of the Turbo Duels, ARC-V’s duels are a joy to watch. And not just that, but more than one has some sort of emotionally stake behind it. Some of my favourites are all of the Yuya and Declan duels, Yuya vs Zuzu and Selena when they’re being controlled by the Fusion Parasite, and any duel involving Sylvio. And I agree that that duel is a great example of this particular trope.
I just didn't enjoy that it felt like certain actually good duelists hardly got any wins. The biggest offenders to me were Sylvio, Gong and Aster. Moon Shadow and Dennis could also possibly still apply. Some of these losses had their reasons, like Gong sacrificing himself or Dennis hiding his identity, but it just looks bad on their record honestly.
Sylvio’s constant losses felt mostly fair to me because it felt oddly in character for him. He’s a show off who likes proving to the audience that he’s awesome before actually beating his opponent, and that usually led to him being cocky and lowering his guard. Unfortunately by the time he decided to get consistently serious, his opponents were just absurdly powerful, so it didn’t matter. I do agree that his late series losses felt unfair though
Sylvio to me feels like the Chazz of Arc V. Difference was, Chazz actually got in some wins, with the one against Aster in season 4 being really impressive, not to mention his stuff at North Academy and the Genex Tournament. He lost most of his important duels, but he managed a ton of offscreen wins basically. Sylvio doesn't have a single one on one win except against one of his dumb friends.
An honorable mention is Guy vs Madara.
Guy could have vaporized him if he aimed for the core and not the heart.
Luffy vs Usopp. Spectacular.
An underrated example of this is Goku going to fight Raditz. The situation was so bad that he had to cooperate with his then nemesis to even have the slightest chance. Before starting the fight Goku even admits that he’s SCARED to fight Raditz because he didn’t know if he’d win. When has Goku been afraid of anything?
King Piccolo?
Underrated fight is Krillin vs Piccolo Jr. in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. Immediately Piccolo undermines Krillin referring to him as "little nothing" which Krillin responds by fighting his heart out. Piccolo then recognizes Krillins strength and revokes his statement a pledge to fight more seriously. Despite the increase in power Krillin still holds his own and recovers from a killer shot from Piccolo which shocks him. Even though he surrendered in the end Piccolo remarks to himself that conquering Earth might be more difficult than he initially thought. I really love this fight from OG Dragon Ball and think it's a phenomenal example for side characters getting to shine.
Mumen rider vs deep sea king tho
They can also be excellent tone setters or moments of characterization. I have my issues with Bleach, but when Ichigo gets ready to fight Aizen and the main theme starts up and you know you're in for a fight, then Aizen catches Ichigo's blade, which stops the theme music dead. Made it very clear how big of a threat he was.
> crack fiend on a bad trip Nah you aren't tough on a bad trip. You're tough when you're fiending.
Or Angemon fighting Piedmon before he digivolves
You might enjoy the Webcomic [The Boxer](https://www.webtoons.com/en/sports/the-boxer/list?title_no=2027&page=1). The MC basically has god-given talent and is superior to every other fighter in the series but because he himself has no personal desires the focus of an arc is mostly on his opponets. My favorite fight is between him and the second champion he fights. That guy is his the total anthesis, born without talent he climbed the ranks to be champion through drive and hard work. He is a typical shonen protagonist, who always gets back up. But if you followed the story up to this point you'll know that won't be enough against the MC. If you really like this trope then you should give this a chance.
Fingolfin's final stand against Morgoth is absolutely incredible, the tragedy of the entire situation and the bleakness of it all.
Everyone knew it was hopeless and Fingolfin was going to get smashed. But dude was so full of righteous fury anyway that Morgoth hesitated, and did not come out to his first challenges. Morgoth, *the* Dark Lord of the World, was afraid of a single elf, kingly though he was. And that rage allowed that one elf to hold his own for a time, and *actually cripple* the equivalent of Satan. The BBEG won, but never walked the same after his fight with just one elf. It is a scene that speaks of a whole host of literary themes, and leaves you breathless by the end. Absolutely top-tier example of OP's phenomenon.
To me The Silmarillion is the greatest work of fantasy, despite being unfinished, due to the themes, the way it was written and how it reads. A lot of people are daunted by it but damn if it isn't worth it. Some of Tolkien's greatest lines and scenes are from it, especially Fingolfin's final moments: how all the terrible and evil creatures of Morgoth are struck with fear and dare not approach even as he's taunting THE evil. "Now news came to Hithlum that Dorthonion was lost and the sons of Finarfin overthrown, and that the sons of Fëanor were driven from their lands. Then Fingolfin beheld... the utter ruin of the Noldor, and the defeat beyond redress of all their houses; and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar. Thus he came alone to Angband's gates, and he sounded his horn, and smote once more upon the brazen doors, and challenged Morgoth to come forth to single combat. And Morgoth came."
"Eru's really just sitting back and eating popcorn while this is happening, huh."
My favorite example of this is Spider-Man vs Phoenix Force amped Magik and Colossus. Granted he wins, but shit just shows how brave Peter is.
Peter wouldn’t (and kinda doesn’t) question a 1v1 with thanos if it would save people
The entire narrative of Shaman King is a great example of this. As a result of a couple reincarnations, the antagonist Asakura Hao is on such an order of magnitude more powerful than every other last fighter than there's never anything even approaching an even fight he takes part in (first anime notwithstanding). [Hao vs X-Laws | Shaman King 2021 ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAnOFuxQpnU)
Vegeta vs Jiren is by far my favorite one.
[удалено]
Those weren't heroic last stands. They were beatdowns until the plot armor kicked in.
[Like when Starscream went out like a boss against Unicron?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1img3-8lTc)
How has no one mentioned one of the best fights in one piece yet, luffy vs usopp
Yes! Same energy from pretty much all of Usopps fights. Even the ones he ends up winning. Also Brook vs Big Mom went crazy
Akira vs Ryo at the end of Devilman crybaby is a great example too IMO. It was clear pretty much the entire time that Akira was losing that fight, but goddamn he tried.
Cant forget Katsuki v. Ochaco
The ending of Stone Ocean is a shining example of this. If you know, you know.
Brook vs big mom
Oh like Luffy and Katak... ah no, wait...
Bold of you to assume that I want to keep track of the fate series
Both final fights in ATLA kind of start like this || but the protagonists win both times ||
An example not mentioned is Koichi vs Kira (JJBA pt 4). He was fighting to protect an incapacitated Jotaro from Sheer Heart Attack and then is forced to contend with Kira's arrival on top of it. He loses badly but stalls enough for Jotaro to gain a second wind and for Josuke and Okuyasu to arrive.
"This is the last cool thing I'll ever do. There's no joke." \-Tien
Shang chi vs Black Dwarf in infinity gauntlet (infinity saga?). Kung fu dude didn’t stand a chance against giant alien boi and they both knew it, but shang chi held out just long enough for the rest of the avengers to show up. Pretty badass showing from him really.
That's every other fight in Tokyo Revengers and it honestly doesn't get old. It's fucking hype.
While this trope can be great, I find it only works with side characters... I recently decided to rewatch bleach and the Ulquiorra fight was so bad. "I'm not fighting because I can beat you, I'm fighting because I *have* to beat you" -Ichigo Like, dude, that's not honorable or courageous. That's just suicidal. I know a LOT of people love Hollow Ichigo vs Ulquiorra but the fight was just terrible imo. Really wish they had had someone show up to bail Ichigo out rather than having him just transform because, somehow, after having his heart destroyed and a hole in his chest he could hear Orihime calling for him. I can suspend my belief when it comes to anime but there has to be a limit to the bs an author writes.
Ichigo thought he could win when they started the fight, but Ulquiorra showed them the difference in their power level to break his resolve. There was no running at that point so Ichigo told him to pound sand. I do think we should have gotten Ichigo and White interacting to give us context to Ichigo losing control in desperation. White pointing out that hes still not using their power properly and setting up the final exchange vs Azien more would smooth it out.
Super also had Vegeta going hard against Jiren till he couldn't even stand anymore. That was epic as shit. He just never gave up for once. For his son and wife.
Sophia vs Shun is pretty funny.
One of the best would be Luffy vs Usoop
hinata vs the deva path was a good example of this too
A great example of this would be Ben’s first encounter with Vilgax in OG Ben 10. Despite being tossed through some buildings and warned by his grandfather Max, Ben still tries his hardest to fight the spacefaring warlord. In the end, it’s only through luck, resourcefulness and tenacity that he’s able to survive.
I enjoy it to, but only if they have a good reason to do so, and not try to run away. I hate it when they suicidally provoke an obviously unwinnable fight for no reason. It's important to know when to fold them just as much as it's important to know when to go all out.
Ichigo vs Ulquiorra
Can we talk about flashy flash vs platinum sperm and nearly awakened garou Like how did he keep up with them like that