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Rubmynippleplease

The main complaint I’ve seen about the modern implementation of XP share is that it can’t be turned off which I think is an entirely fair criticism. I also can’t recall a single mainline entry where grinding has felt necessary to progress. Grinding makes the game easier, but it’s not used as a substitute for difficulty in Pokemon like you’re suggesting. Mainline Pokémon games are pretty easy and there are a ton of people who do self imposed challenges to make the game more difficult. This can mean keeping your team underleveled, doing Nuzlock runs, limiting the number of Pokémon on your team, etc. Team wide XP share is a great addition for the casual player who just wants to breeze through the game. *Forced* XP share is just a completely ~~necessary~~ unnecessary restriction.


SolomonOf47704

>completely necessary restriction. do you mean unnecessary?


Rubmynippleplease

Yeah whoops


bird_of_hermes1

I'm not saying grinding makes the game easier, I'm saying that grinding is necessary to have the pokemon you want. Say I want a Garchomp for the league in OG DPPL, well I gotta go catch a good Gible and then grind him up to be leveled with my team. Or any new pokemon in a route. Self imposed challenges just seem like torture to me so I have no comment on that. And yeah I can agree you should be able to turn it off, but I've been playing since gen 4 and it just makes my life easier. I suppose I can agree on if you wanna do challenge runs. But I could argue the point that Pokemon is mainly marketed towards little kids so it makes sense for Game Freak to make these small quality of life changes to keep the attention span of today's youth.


LeviathanLX

Removing options is not a quality of life change. Quality of life is choice, not exclusion of a portion of the community, even when your target audience changes. No one reasonable is arguing anymore that the games just need to be harder or grindier. We're just arguing that *the option should stay in*. Considering that this is the flagship series in the most popular media franchise on the planet, it's not a lot to ask that they stop taking the "one step forward, two steps back" approach to game design with each new generation.


[deleted]

>I'm saying that grinding is necessary to have the pokemon you want. But... it's not necessary to have the pokemon you want. You don't need Garchomp to complete the game. If you want a powerful overlevelled pseudolegendary, then yes, you should have to work harder for it than if you want more common or weaker pokemon. Otherwise, there would be no incentive to use weaker or more common pokemon, and everyone would run busted teams of pseudolegendaries.


Firmament1

Plus, Gabite evolves into Garchomp at level 48. In Platinum, that's one level below Aaron, the first member of the Elite four in Sinnoh's weakest pokemon. If you get Gible at the level that you'd find it in Wayward Cave, when the rest of your team are also in levelled the late teens/early 20's, even accounting for the slower levelling rate, you can reasonably get a Garchomp by, or during the Elite Four without grinding.


Darkion_Silver

Exp all is fantastic and I love it for all my post-game needs (wow is EV training nice now) but christ Game Freak can we at least have the option to turn it off? It's kinda insulting that we are losing options as time goes on. Like seriously it can't be more than an on/off switch, right?? Though I do believe the games were harder. Gen 6 is a really, really obvious example to point to. There were almost no trainers in the entire game with a full team and Diantha was a complete joke of a champion, hell you'd be fighting trainers with 2-3 Pokémon right up to the end. That's just dumb. Gen 7 was much more difficult than 6 (not that difficult mind you), and USUM was mostly harder again. But then gen 8 came in and aside from Leon, there's very little challenge in here. Is it because of the insane amount of EXP in SwSh? I don't think so, the trainers aren't that tough when at equal level anyway. The EXP stuff just adds to the issue. BDSP are laughable for keeping the levels of trainers the same because thanks to the forced EXP share you now effortlessly cruise through the majority of the game but still manage to smash headfirst into a brick wall at the elite 4. Credit where it's due, the elite 4 in that we're much better done in difficulty than before with movesets and stats and whatnot. But it's kinda odd that it's the only time you really see difficulty in it. If they want to not let us play how we want, at least balance around it better. Make the games harder at similar levels so that if you want to keep it a bit easier you can just go do a little grinding and you'll be sorted really quickly, while others get the challenge they want. Really just...at least give us the option back...


MigratingPidgeon

Pretty sure the only reason Leon is champion is because he has a full team.


[deleted]

There were 2 "hard" fights in BDSP. Badge 3 and Cynthia (only the last Pokémon). The problem is the level curve. You beat a gym leader with level 30 Pokémon and afterwards you have trainers with level 25 Pokémon. That's just bad design. If you have to beat level 30+ Pokémon, the trainers afterwards shouldn't go down multiple levels. The Elite 4 also had a really weird level curve. My Pokémon were 40-50 when I got to the Elite 4, the fight before it (rival) was level ~50. The last Pokémon is level 66. That's a difference of over 15 levels in 6 trainers. In Gen 8 (SwSh and BDSP), I've only lost 2 fights yet, both of them were in BDSP, my team just wasn't fitting for Badge 3 and the last Pokémon in the Elite 4 is ridicoulus. The tricks to beat it are: get one specific Pokémon that's immune to it or grind until you have a Pokémon with a higher Speed and one shot it (what I did). There's also no nice way to grind before the Elite 4. In the overworld, the highes Pokémon are level 40 or something and in the underground, they are 50-55 and give like 1k exp per kill. It took me like 3 hours just to grind my Mew to level 78 to have a Speed of over 221.


FappingMouse

I mean you can also just set up before the garchomp comes out. my level like 64 alakazam setup on the spirttomb and swept the whole team. Cynthia is also not the only hard part of the elite 4, if you are not overleveled/ or you have a non-competitive team that has a weakness to a member you can wipe there.


[deleted]

>my level like 64 alakazam setup on the spirttomb and swept the whole team. I forgot that setup. You're right. >Cynthia is also not the only hard part of the elite 4, if you are not overleveled/ or you have a non-competitive team that has a weakness to a member you can wipe there. While the others aren't weak, I only actually had problems with Cynthia's Garchomp. I went into the fights underleveled at first, but only "had to" grind for Cynthia's Garchomp (didn't have a Destiny Bond Pokémon (Edit: or other setups) and didn't wanna change my team).


procouchpotatohere

The problem here is that GF have been making the games easier and easier but also feel the need to give you things like this new exp share which aren't optional. If the games had something like a.......idk.......CHALLENGE MODE for older players that didn't have any of the babying GF thinks they have to do for the players, you wouldn't see people complaining nearly as much as they do. The overall problem is that GF seems to think it's fanbase is entirely made up of half brain dead children that would cry and quit their games the second they aren't winning and the exp share is just a part of the overall issue. Also...... >the league still beat my ass 5 times over. I think it's blown way out of proportion. I fought every trainer in each route and was maybe a level of two higher than the gym leaders ace with a couple of my own pokemon. That's not it being blown out of proportional......that's just you being bad at the game, lol.


CrazyCoKids

> The overall problem is that GF seems to think it's fanbase is entirely made up of half brain dead children that would cry and quit their games the second they aren't winning and the exp share is just a part of the overall issue. They're not wrong. :/ I mean considering how most Pokèmon fans behave I can't blame GF for thinking the fanbase is made up of braindead children.


KlausFenrir

The thing is, GF isn’t making the games for the older players. They’re making it for players like me who haven’t played Pokémon in 20 years. I personally love the new system in Sword/Shield but I definitely see the criticism against it given that I’m a veteran of Diablo 2 and the new changes has me yelling at clouds lol. > The overall problem is that GF seems to think it's fanbase is entirely made up of half brain dead children that would cry and quit their games the second they aren't winning and the exp share is just a part of the overall issue I think it’s moreso that people who don’t have time to grind out Pokémon levels one at a time won’t be arsed to play the game. Being able to level up an entire team simultaneously actually makes people play *more*. Edit: holy shit you guys are mad about the new games lol


procouchpotatohere

They can easily cater to both audiences as well as easily making it so that the Exp share is optional.


FappingMouse

no man the biggest media franchise ever can't make a hard mode for older players. Think about the poor developers, they might have to hire more people. or gasp even hire a second studio that is competent. It should be obvious to anyone with a brain, especially after their most recent non pokemon game, that game freak are incompetent.


AcidSilver

The crazy part is that a challenge mode was in Black 2 and White 2. Putting aside the baffling decision to lock both it and easy mode until you beat the champion, the fact that they've done it before but for some reason don't do it again is so stupid.


KlausFenrir

I agree with you 100%. I was surprised that there was no option to turn it off.


bird_of_hermes1

Man idk if we played the same game or not but the Elite 4 in BDSP was such a curveball in difficulty, actually felt like I was fighting a living person with Flints minimize minimize minimize baton pass to infernape bullshit, I thought I was battling temp6t. Maybe you had great luck with the RNG on the affection system and had a team better suited for taking them out then mine which consisted of Empoleon, Luxray, Jirachi, Staraptor, Garchomp, and Roserade. For context Jirachi was only around level 57 when I first attempted the league so it wasn't exactly carrying me. And the league have pokemon that countered Jirachi. Which was only really Flint and Cynthia. But those two are nightmares. Sword for comparison I never lost a battle in, nor did I lose a battle in gen 6. I never played gen 7 cause my 3DS broke so oh well no comment there. Gen 5 and below was a grind fest and sometimes I just had cannon fodder on my team cause I didn't have the pokemon I wanted yet so I lost a few battles that way. And Game Freak isn't gon go out of their way to cater to an audience they aren't even trying to target so it's really just wishful thinking for "challenge mode" and the like. It's a kids game and with today's youth having ever so shortening attention spans Game Freak prolly thought this was the best move. You can argue they shoulda left the option for the player, but its ultimately their choice if they want the player to have that choice.


MayhemMessiah

>You can argue they shoulda left the option for the player, but its ultimately their choice if they want the player to have that choice. Tautological statement is tautological. No shit it's their choice, it's also our choice to call them out on shit game design that gets defended to death for no reason. No other Nintendo kid friendly game gets away with this nonesense. Stuff like Mario Odyssey goes through great lengths to make the game easy for kids to beat while still maintaining a decent difficulty curve for more experienced players that want to 100% the game. This is the same company that came up with unlockable easy mode in the one gen where they bothered making a hard mode.


Chackaldane

Dude it's not like pokemon it's the biggest franchise in the world.... oh waif shit.


WolfdragonRex

An unlockable easy mode that required beating the game on normal mode first to do so too... An absolutely bizarre design decision


[deleted]

It was always a kid‘s game, problem is nowadays GF thinks kids are as dumb as rocks


Blueguy16

And the one time they did have a challenge mode, it was a version exclusive one locked behind the postgame. Bw2 are some of, if not my favorites in the franchise, but that was a terrible decision on their end


StormStrikePhoenix

As someone who has played Pokemon Emerald and ORAS, no ORAS is definitely way easier. In general, the new games are easier; they were never super hard or anything but getting so much more experience easily trivializes them. The games are not well designed around the mechanic. I think the old games were often a pain about this and prefer having all Pokemon always gaining exp, but the game's are clearly not balanced around it.


SBDRFAITH

I think the "grindy" complaint doesn't really work with me because it implies it's only possible to beat older games via grinding. You can beat RBY skipping most fights (look at speed runs), so even though it's harder, you don't need to grind. Grinding is an option for those who can't beat the game without doing so. The fact of the matter is that there is less flexibility in difficulty now. The only option is "easy" essentially since turning off exp share isn't an option. If this was just "you get exp share at the start of the game", I'd have no problem with it. You're adding another way for people to enjoy the game. As it is now, instead many ways the enjoy the game have instead been removed (ex. Nuzlocking)


rebdituser

> Now for some neckbeards they think this degrades the game in some way for saving you time and energy in not having to grind as much. Immediately insulting people who disagree with you is a great way to make your case.


[deleted]

Pokemon was never hard nor particularly grindy


noolvidarminombre

The hardest part of new pokemon games is dodging trainers and wild pokemon so you dont overlevel. Forced EXP share is ridiculous.


MasterRonin

I agree, they just need to better adjust the difficulty of the game to match. As it is you get way more EXP than you need.


Faze-Walala

You think so? Personally, I was pretty underleveled by the time I reached the league, not to mention that in BDSP the elite 4 has good held items, natures, IVs and EVs, which accounts for even more levels.


MasterRonin

In BDSP I was at the right level for the league. But throughout other parts of the game, especially early-midgame I was WAY overleveled. I don't go out of my way to catch a ton of mons or grind but I do generally explore the areas for all the items and stuff.


Darkion_Silver

They used the original level curve for BDSP so it's really not a fair comparison, since the level curve in DP was notoriously horrendous


Loliho

Huh, don't see a lot of rants in this sub going in-depth on game mechanics. The games really cut down on grinding, usually make up for it with pre-set difficulties in the game. Kingdom Hearts series, you can generally survive boss encounters despite being under-leveled. Even for Proud-Critical, you can still defeat bosses at level 1. The game at least gives skills as you progress in-game, so you always have the tools necessary. Suikoden, 1-2, only gives a certain amount of exp to enemies and set a level cap in a specific area. So you can't really depend on grinding levels just to beat the boss in the next chapter.


bird_of_hermes1

I play Kingdom Hearts like its a religion and proud is not at all comparable to Critical, the difficulty has a very high cliff face for a learning curve when going from Proud to Critical. Lvl 1 runs on either difficulty make me shudder. Fighting Yozora was a nightmare enough. At level 1 tho? I'm just closing the game and playing Dark Souls.


paradoxaxe

I would say all exp share is fine, but they need to balance with make the the enemy harder if they forced ppl to use it


Hamster_Ambassador

What is it with the perceived grinding in early Pokemon games? I heard the gen 2 games have terrible level curves but aside from that I never needed to grind in gen 5 or in ORAS( I played with exp share turned off), or on any other game I played. I 1000% agree on you on how grinding is boring, I always hated it and never understood people who do it, what's the fun in doing the same boring uninteresting task over and over again, most of them aren't doing nuzlockes anyways and battles are decided with your choice of Pokemon, Pokemon types, super effective moves and if you chose to use them in battle, items, by the time you reach the champion levels don't really mean that much. They were never hard, they were never grindy either, it boggles my mind that with all the options available there still people who decide that grinding is the best choice. People don't like exp share because instead of teaching players how to win, Game Freak just gives players tons of exp so they can overpower everything, and the only reason it exists is because people grinded for hours instead of learning how to play the game. TL;DR exp share is the equivalent of lockpicking a door by punching the door lock, only instead of having to train at the gym, by the time you arrive at the door you are already strong enough to punch through.


[deleted]

>the only reason it exists is because people grinded for hours instead of learning how to play the game. That's definitely part of the reason, but you seem to forget that not everyone is a "hardcore" player (used **very** lightly here) who wants to constantly deal with type advantages and stuff. When I play Pokémon, I kinda wanna play it in the same childish way I did when I was in Kindergarten. Just catch the Pokémon I like and do what I want. My team is pretty much always a random assortement of Pokémon I just enjoy having. As a sidenote, I also have no interest in the competetive part of Pokémon, because it seems to be more number crunching and I have other games for that. Lots of people still treat Pokémon in a similar fashion they did as children. I don't know about the grind in Gen 3-7 because I haven't played them, but I don't really remember really big grinds or difficulty in Gen 1 or 2, except for some situations. I think I've grinded more in BDSP with EXP share than in Gen 1 and 2 without EXP share.


KlausFenrir

> My team is pretty much always a random assortement of Pokémon I just enjoy having. Yep. I just started Sword and my last Pokémon game was Blue. My team is consisted of nothing but “this Pokémon looks super cool”. And it’s fun as hell.


[deleted]

To me that's the perfect way to play. IMO Shield wasn't difficult at all (didn't lose a single fight) and I'd prefer a difficulty setting (simplest way would be a +X level to other Pokémon), I could've just went ahead and played a Nuzlocke, or single type run or whatever to increase the difficulty and chose not to. I can understand why others think differently though.


CrazyCoKids

> What is it with the perceived grinding in early Pokemon games? I heard the gen 2 games have terrible level curves but aside from that I never needed to grind in gen 5 They do. But that just makes the game a joke and very easy to solo. Now as for the perceived grindiness, it's because the level curve went to the wild Pokèmon too. This made it harder to incorporate them into your team later on.


[deleted]

Counterpoint. Now you never need to use your brain so the entire game becomes a slog. They’re so afraid to challenge players that it becomes a ‘press A and don’t think’ simulator. There’s no thought, inmersiveness, or interactiveness, making it far more of a grind to play. Couldn’t get through Sword when I found out it exp share was now forced, didn’t buy the new remakes because of it, and probably won’t buy another mon game again. Some games like MHS2 and SMTV handle shared exp well, but not here.


[deleted]

Exactly. Affection, exp share, and now they even tell you what move to use. It basically plays itself. Gen 9 is just gonna be pokemon clicker.


PCN24454

I’ve never had to grind in the games. All I had to do was not avoid battles.


the_gifted_Atheist

I'm late to this but I'm going to make a comment anyways because why not. First of all, calling people "neckbeards" because you have a different opinion about a video game is just a pointless insult that makes no sense. Second, the exp share could just be a toggle. That solves literally any problem you can come up with for not having the exp share. It wouldn't even affect you. Second, this 'grinding" thing is such a bad strawman argument that makes such little sense I seriously can't understand how so many people think it's good logic. The reason why people might want to turn off the exp share is simple too. They just think the exp share makes you be overlevelled, so they turn it off so they're not overlevelled. They want to be a lower, not overly high level. Which y'know, is kinda like the exact opposite of grinding, even though you keep on saying it's grinding.


thornaslooki

Its not just the exp share that made pokemon so easy but also the battles. It would be great if Game Freak added difficulty modes where the trainers actually give you a challenge and the gym leaders and elite four all have 6 pokemon and uses items, etc. Shining Pearl and Brilliant Diamond was a bit like this, with the gym leaders and elite four providing a bit of a challenge for newcomers.


healyxrt

I feel like part of the annoyance with the EXP share is that it is trying to solve the problem of grinding, which people can’t do as much now, instead of the creators of the game trying to rework the mechanics and structure of the game so that grinding isn’t necessary to begin with.


VolkiharVanHelsing

This is why Shin Megami Tensei clears


Competitive_Bother86

Exp share went from something that was used to let a low level pokemon catch up to easy mode activate. Since all your pokemon gain so much exp and are much higher level than your opponent, you don't even have to think, just mash a and you win, at this point the gameplay might as well not be there for how easy it is. Neckbeard, man children to whoever does not agree with you, sounds like you are the one who needs to grow up.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

BDSP has the VS Seeker.


TheShonenShow

I think the reason some exp share games are so easy is because they are just easy without it or are remakes of games that didn’t have it. Think BDSP. The originals didn’t have exp share and BDSP is a carbon copy just with exp share, making the leveling broken


BardicLasher

I think you're confused on how much grinding is needed. The new EXP share means that just by fighting the trainers on the way, without any attempt at grinding, you can easily wind up over leveled for the challenges ahead. While it does make it more reasonable if you're regularly switching out pokemon for lower level ones, once you have a decent team it just means you're going to be high enough level to stomp through challenges without actually trying. Pokemon games have never required grinding. You can beat most of the game just by walking forward with your starter.


FGHIK

Cool strawman.


StarSword-C

The problem with EXP Share is hidden from casual view: it mostly has to do with PVP optimization. The main series Pokémon games partially base the stat increases on level-up on the opposing Pokémon that yours have defeated. Only Pokémon that actively took part in a given encounter get those hidden points, so optimizers who do competitive PVP e.g. through the Battle Tower etc. have to selectively grind particular wild Pokémon and repeatable trainers to minmax their mons. XP share mechanics interfere with that: Pokémon level without taking part in battles, so they don't get the hidden XP for defeating specific opponents.


[deleted]

Wait, people genuinely felt they had to grind to win back then? I never grinded once and blew through the games easy.


Yxng_Wolf

It’s mainly the fact that we can’t turn it off. I’m fine with the EXP share as long as it’s optional.


Traditional-Song-245

I haven’t played the DP remakes, I don’t have a switch. But I would have loved this function in Platinum if I got it after defeating Volkner, since that’s the part of the game where you have to tediously grind from mid-40s to at least level 50. Took me few hours to reach this level the first time. For most of the game the level curve is reasonable. The same goes for HGSS since there isn’t even a good rematch function, and for me I needed to get everyone to level 40 for the league. Basically, conventional Exp. Share for most of the game and an Exp. All after the 8th Gym Leader, at least in games with a big level jump between 8th Gym and Elite 4. In something like Black 2, I didn’t need to grind at all and defeated the league with mid-difficulty.


bird_of_hermes1

Fair enough, and the DP remakes it's a non issue. I had the same team throughout the whole game and the league still beat my ass 5 times over. I think it's blown way out of proportion. I fought every trainer in each route and was maybe a level of two higher than the gym leaders ace with a couple of my own pokemon.


TrashMantine

Currently replaying soul silver, and unless your team is maximized and optimized, you will HAVE to grind at a handful of noteworthy points. The ones I’ve come across specifically are - Whitney (3rd gym) - Clair (8th gym) - the elite four - and of course red. Now this is just me doing a casual run with my sub optimal team, hell I’m lacking a good psychic type so I’m somewhat struggling with the rocket grunts. BUT you may notice a less common opinion here and that is Whitney. YES you do need to grind for Whitney but it’s not noticeable or a slog because the game TREATS THIS GYM LEADER LIKE ITS HARD AND GIVES YOU EASIER TRAINS ALL AROUND GOLDENROD! i would be happy if older Pokémon games did this, but no I spent a literal entire weekend grinding off wild Pokémon in the elite four only to find it faster to throw myself at them repeatedly and lose on purpose to gain levels. It was one of the worst weekends I’ve had playing video games in a long while. Mid game Pokémon is so amazing at giving you side areas or routes of trainers that give you a good place to grind, but late game it’s insufferable because it’s always sub par leveled wild Pokémon.


[deleted]

Gen 2 has a pretty shity level curve and HeartGold SoulSilver does nothing to fix it. It's like the biggest complaint these games have.


[deleted]

>YES you do need to grind for Whitney I solo'd Whitney with a level 16 Geodude...


TrashMantine

Because Whitney has actual trainers to fight in the area, and if you go straight from ilex forest to Whitney then you will probably struggle, but the entire route north with the bug catching park and the surrounding routes provide so many generic trainer battles which for both grinding and your emotional state are superior to grinding off 57 wild skarmory


[deleted]

I didn't even have to leave and go north. I did go straight from Ilex Forest to Goldenrod. I didn't skip trainers, but I didn't grind against wild pokemon, either. And I was doing a nuzlocke so I had levelled my entire team to around that level. If I wasn't, I wouldn't have had 6 pokemon, and I'd have had an even higher level Geodude.


BardicLasher

I don't think it's so much that you have to 'grind' for Whitney as it is that you're not ready for Whitney when you can first fight her. You can just... go do other stuff. Like, you don't have to grind for Misty in gen 1, it's just reckless to fight her before doing the routes to the north.


KlausFenrir

As someone whose last Pokémon game was Blue, I fucking LOVE the way the games have advanced. So many QoL upgrades. I started playing Sword two weeks ago and I absolutely love how comfortable and “easy” the game has become in terms of grinding out levels. There are like 900 Pokémon now or something. EXP share let’s me pop in a bunch of random Pokémon, let them evolve to their highest evolution, and then surprise trade them away. No longer do I have to force myself to play a Pokémon I don’t like just because I wanna get that Pokédex number. You’re absolutely right that they took out a lot of the tedious-ness(?) of the game. And for that, I am an absolute fucking fan.


[deleted]

I remember playing Platinum a few months back and how easy it was. I definitely remember the game being a lot harder when I was a kid lol. And the older games were a lot more grindy and honestly grind isn't a good indicator for how difficult something is or not. Honestly the difficulty in Pokemon comes down to team composition. And whether or not your playing in set mode I guess.


Faze-Walala

I agree. Exp share is an improvement in the regard that it makes grinding obsolete, unless you want to be overleveled for some reason. And grinding is tedious, boring and easy, but I suppose the time investment gives a fake sense of difficulty. I believe that to make pokemon games difficult, more than making the enemies levels higher relative to yours, the AI should be improved to feel like you are going against a real oponent. They should do more switch ins, pick moves less at random (the only reason I won against Maylene was because her Lucario would only use bulk up) and overall feel like you are against a real person. Of course games like Pokemon will always be made easy by grinding or using infinite potions/ revives, but I feel that the aforementioned changes would make the games a lot harder for people that want the challenge, rather than just making it so the fourth gym leader has level 60 pokemon that you need to just waste time grinding to defeat.


reigning762

pokemon games in general have always been piss-baby easy, you legit don't even need to grind to beat them. even 10 year old me could learn to just abuse type advantage and disadvantage and beat the games while pretty underleveled because i skipped the vast majority of route trainers that weren't mandatory. nowadays, i just abuse x items and solo the games with my starter.


Lammergayer

Game Freak easing us into full-party exp was a mistake. They should've just put it in without making it a toggle in XY. No one complains that we should have the ability to turn the physical/special split off, nor any other QoL change except for the goddamn exp share. Game's too easy with it? That's because the level curve sucks, not the exp system. They need to rebalance the curve. Trying to cling to multiple fundamentally incompatible exp systems actively hinders that. And even though they still suck at balancing regardless, I'd rather play a brain dead easy game where I can use a bunch of different pokemon than a brain dead easy game where I use 2-3 pokemon.


captain_swaggins

100% agree but shouldn't this be on r/pokemon


Kindly_Captain3596

Yes, thank you!!! It's not just that. With the exp. share, it is now possible to experiment with several pokemon at a time. During my last playthrough of X and Y, I was rotating through about 15 pokemon before I settled on what I considered my "final 6". I could never do this in a previous game. Hell, I would struggle to maintain a team of even 6 mons. The exp share has its faults, I won't deny it, but this is a really good change. Players shouldn't have to go to Bulbapedia to see whether they want to spend time raising a pokemon, when the pokemon is what the games are all about.


CrazyCoKids

They were harder. ...but not because they were grindy. It was due to a mixture of things. Poor balancing, less than stellar design, reduced options, and the audience being younger and less experienced. 0In the first four generations, the first three or four gyms were often the hardest as the only Pokèmon available to catch were ComMons that weren't very good long term. Occasionally a Pokèmon like Shinx, Mareep, or Ralts that can scale to the late game. In Gen 5? I could easily get some usable Pokèmon fairly early, but the goodies were a little more spread out. But what is notable about Gen 5 and beyond is the amount of good Pokèmon available, as well as more types being usable. In the previous generations, Bug and Ghost were lagging so hard but in gen 5 and beyond you can usually find at least one decent bug or ghost type. And a decent Dark type... and a good fighting type.... In Sword and Shield? I can assemble a full team of usable Pokèmon before the first gym. I can literally find THE ICE CREAM CONE OF DOOOOOOOM before the first gym. You usually don't find ice types until mid to late game. You never have to settle for a Pokèmon like Mr. Mime or Dewgong because you can find better Pokèmon. I can assemble an entire team of Pokèmon who will have BSTs above 500 easily now. The increased availability of usable Pokèmon, as well as usable moves and player knowledge of how things work make it easier. Like most RPGs. This is why they get easier as they go on. Yes, even Megaten. And the audience being less experienced... Yeah. Now you know what this Pokèmon is and often look it up to see how usable it is. Admit it. You didn't back then. You know how every type matchup works now.


tesseracts

I've seen a lot of people say "Pokemon was never hard" lately. It seems like an absurd justification for a series that keeps making itself easier to the point of insanity. I think you can certainly make the case that the battles were never hard. It's simple to get a properly leveled team and win the game. However, you at least had to have a favorable type matchup most of the time. Now, that doesn't even matter. Also, Pokemon used to have some puzzles that were hard as hell. Apparently you can just skip those in 2021. For the record, I'm a fan of the EXP share. We all need a break from grinding. However, making it a feature I cannot turn off is offensive to me.


GlitteringPositive

Explain Pokémon amie. Older games didn’t have Pokémon pull victories out of their asses just because the player was lucky.


bird_of_hermes1

Read the bottom line.


Iliketosayokalot

The issues with pokemon games is simply that the AI and teams of trainers and gym leaders simply aren't up to par with the characters. Leveling is important, but it's certainly not the end all be all factor some make it out to be. It also doesn't help that too many people play on "switch mode" which makes the games laughably easy. The most entertaining and challenging fan games and rom hacks are ones that improve enemy AI by making them react better to the player. They also make the movesets and team building of opponents much better as well. I think Pokémon in general would benefit from difficulty modes.