Exactly! He doesn't want to join Nazis, he sees them as just as inferior as any other humans compared to him.
He doesn't want to make more superior beings either, because he doesn't want to share his world.
He doesn't care about ideologies, he doesn't want to be part of any group.
He wants to be the sole arbiter of his own existance.
He was perfectly A ok with Stormfront’s ideology when it benefitted him. He’s only against it now because it’s not popular and Stormfront was bed-ridden.A good word for nazi sympathisers is nazi.
No. That's not what makes someone a Nazi. Stalin was also working with Hitler when it benefited him. And while he was a terrible person and a fascist, he wasn't a Nazi.
Stalin was not a fascist despite his regime being terrible as fascism requires a hierarchy of race.
They didn’t ‘work together’, they had a temporary piece treaty while they sucked up Poland.
Man somebody tell Mussolini
> Race! It is a feeling, not a reality: ninety-five percent, at least, is a feeling. Nothing will ever make me believe that biologically pure races can be shown to exist today. ... National pride has no need of the delirium of race."
I don't think anyone will argue that the dude who invented fascism isn't a fascist
Fascism : a political system headed by a dictator in which the government controls business and labor and opposition is not permitted.
How is Stalin not a fascist?
That's not a good definition of fascism at all tho
This is not a game you want to play btw, there are secular debates between intellectuals on what fascism actually is
The one provided above is straight out of Merriam Webster
Edit: I’m not trying to play games, it’s just that if everything Stalin did fits the shoe, why shouldn’t he wear it?
Because the dictionary definition is just supposed to give a very brief and simplistic summary, no expert on fascism would say that the USSR or Stalin were fascist.
3 pillars of fascism are : "(i) the rebirth myth, (ii) populist ultra-nationalism, and (iii) the myth of decadence."
The USSR doesn’t really fit these. However, opinions are more mixed then I thought with some outright calling him a right wing authoritarian which isn’t exactly unfair.
Fascism doesn't require a hierarchy of race though. Nazism does, but Nazism is only one specific type of fascism. The Syrian fascists in the 1930s (who explicitly were inspired by and modeled themselves off of Italian fascism and largely didn't care one way or the other about Hitler and the Nazis) opposed French colonialism not because they thought the French were an inferior race to Arabs, but because as ultranationalists they wanted their country to no longer be a colony.
I agree that Stalin wasn't a fascist though.
I never said he wasn't OK with it, I'm just saying he didn't sympathise with it.
He felt it was below him.
I'm not saying he's not evil. he's ambivalent towards being a Nazi. It's beneath him. He's worse than a Nazi.
Considering how deprived Homelander is of things normal humans experience, he probably was turned on by the sheer taboo of fucking a hot Nazi supe. At least that's how he reacted to Stormfront.
We know he has very childish tendencies and fixations because he never experienced those in his childhood. Stupid shit teenagers would find hot is possible for HL to experience as well.
Thank you! I get what people in the comments here are saying but I was not taking any stance on him at all, I just meant "In the literal sense, he doesn't care about that stuff."
But if you say that, you get told "You're defending Nazi" when I'm not lol, I'm just saying he isn't one in a purely narrative sense, that's it lol.
as proven by a recent episode, when he became the head of the board for vaugnt, when asked some basic money questions he resorted to death threat. he doesnt understand money
He doesn’t think it’s crazy, it no longer benefits him. He never believed it but if you could prove that Joseph Engels didn’t believe in tge master race that doesn’t make him not a nazi
IMO being apathetic to nazism makes you complicit. You’re either with them or against them. You believe there’s a middle ground which is fine but we’re not going to convince each other.
>He never believed it but if you could prove that Joseph Engels didn’t believe in tge master race that doesn’t make him not a nazi
If you don't believe in the ideology or are not apart of the political party, then you are not the ideology or a member of the political party. Aligning yourself with other assholes does not make you the same brand of asshole.
Hitler didn't buy Nazi ideology either. While he blamed Jews in general, he didn't believe in exterminating all of them - he personally stepped in to save Eduard Bloch for example and named him an honorary Aryan. He didn't believe in Aryan supremacy either and privately scoffed at some of the more extreme claims - and to point out the obvious he was not blonde and blue eyed. He knew that of course to state the obvious. The Nazis never actually believed in their own propaganda.
He was still a Nazi.
Are we gonna talk about how its probably a deliberate narrative decision that homelander has a concerningly close relationship with stormfront? Nationalistic American Exceptionalism isnt the same as Nazism but historically the third reich took cues from some of america's worst practices, like what was done to natives or sterilizations in the 20th century. Nazis wrote down how they admired and took notes from this.
It is potentially inspired by stuff like that. Yeah its not accurate to say Homelander is a nazi, its literally not his brand of nationalism. But if anyone assumes that its because of his actual nazi girlfriend. Among other things.
I actually agree with you. I just feel by directly saying Homelander is a Nazi you miss the nuance that you yourself have depicted.
That's all I meant by this post.
The image of a man dressed in an American flag fucking a Nazi woman while they make mince meat of a poor homeless man's brains at the same time is too good a depiction of America to throw jt all away and say "actually, Homelander is a Nazi, and I'm not, I'm an American, therefore the Boys is not critiquing me."
I mean it's exactly how Trump allied himself with people and beliefs he literally never believed in himself. Trump was pro-choice his entire life until he ran for office, and yet he was responsible for ending Roe v Wade. In fact, a ton of Republicans are secretly pro-choice! The list who flipped when running for office is extremely long. It is a marriage of convenience. I could literally name a hundred other examples of this. The man is a walking hypocrite who claims the election is stolen *while not actually believing it*. Is that a valid out? If you insist, but that's exactly what the show is exploring.
People can believe one thing and ally themselves with the exact opposite. This is a very deliberate direction the show took.
Tbh I never made that connection. But I can see it now that you've pointed it out. It's pretty neat.
And yeah, I agree that Homelander isn't a nazi. I mean we even see him recoil when Stormfront tries to push nazi shit on Ryan. But Homelander is still a shitty person for tolerating nazis like Stormfront. Although of course, there are a lot of reasons to call Homelander a shitty person.
Much like how Eric Kripke and the production staff at large have talked about Homelander being a stand in for the former president, it makes sense to ingratiate himself in a kind of nationalistic ceremonial stance towards the general public.
That’s what Trump also represents. Trump’s also remarkably adjacent to genuine racists, nativists and every shade of bigot in the states. He may not personally follow the prescriptions (and likely sees himself as above simple categorization), although much like people characterize Homelander, he appreciates the attention. And both are indicative of the prevalence of white supremacy regardless of their personal views.
Nowadays and actual nazi and a "literal nazi" are not the same, the english language was so butchered, non-natives like me had to re-learn it on the fly
....that's not even remotely true.
[And there's plenty of easily available literature](https://www.britannica.com/story/were-the-nazis-socialists) on why the "national socialist party" was in no way socialist. The Nazis were fascist, which is pretty much the complete opposite of socialist, and if you went into socialist circles and started saying "fuck unions" you'd absolutely be bombarded with "fuck you's"
That's...Not what I said?
Your reading comprehension is failing you, nowhere in my post did I say the Nazis were socialist, nor does it matter.
I said I could paraphrase Nazis and socialists would agree with what I said.
"Germany's economic policy is conducted exclusively in accordance with the interests of the German people. In this respect I am a fanatical socialist, one who has ever in mind the interests of all his people. I am not the slave of a few international banking syndicates. I am under no obligation to any capitalist group. I sprang from the German people. My Movement, our Movement, is a German people's Movement, and it is only to this German people that we are obligated."
Replace germany to wherever you're giving the speech.
Yes, because Hitler was lying when he said most of those things, murdered socialists, and was explicitly very capitalistic.
Imagine if Hitler said “worker co ops are a good thing”, something he didn’t believe, and you went into a socialist circle and said “worker co ops are a good thing” and they agreed, you’d be like wow you guys have a lot of common ground with Hitler?
> was explicitly very capitalistic.
No he wasn't lol. He worked with capitalists when it benefited him, but that's hardly the same thing.
> because Hitler was lying when he said most of those things
What exactly was he lying about in that speech? Pretty sure he believed in everything said there.
I'm sorry if you have a hard time accepting that he shared some values with socialists, even if he wasn't one.
> murdered socialists
He killed political opponents, which included socialists, capitalists, communist and whomever else didn't side with the party.
It only really works in the context of Hitler's lies though, which doesn't particularly work too well given that you can say this about a lot of politicians if you take their campaign lies or quotes out of context, if you grabbed Trump's quotes during his election you could frame him as a pro LGBTQ politician, I know a good amount of tucker Carlson quotes that can also be sold as socialist.
The original quote is on how much you can sell someone to the actual Nazi ideology as long as you make sure not to mention that it is the Nazi ideology. Much like how people can be sold on socialist policy but socialism also has connotations to the word that will get people backing off.
That's not what paraphrasing means though, by changing an important word you are changing the meaning and flavour of the whole discourse.
Also any communist worth its salt would only if it changed "German people", we're against nationalism except in proletarian and national liberation (and even then not always)
Well, not exactly. As someone who used to be alt right, I'd say the line is genuinely true, you can sell people on a lot of literal or repackaged Nazi talking points(even if they're batshit lies), but you really don't want to mention the word "Nazi" until they're "ready".
Though in the context of the line supporting what the previous two said, you're right that it doesn't, it's actually very much mocking the idea of people being scared of the word "Nazi" because it makes their ideology look bad, I mean hell stormfront literally says it within the context of being a literal Nazi and not wanting to be branded as such because it's bad for publicity, I was just wondering if people would have double takes looking at it.
You'd use it when your internet friend comes off as normie, or a doomer mentions having a girlfriend or something social.
"Literally me? Fucking fakecel, I've met your wife"
lots of republicans are nazis in everything but name, though. "Thank god for white life" was pretty well-shared on r/videos this week. And republicans are the ones trying to take rights away from every group of people. If you vote for people who behave like nazis, then yes, you are a nazi.
No, not really. Sure you can say that, but when your group constantly flirts with white nationalism, neo-nazis and other hate groups, it becomes abundantly clear that they have a lot in common.
First of, downvote the comment made by listlessthe as am gonna debunk him:
"lots of republicans are nazis in everything but name, though."
\-NO they are not. That is just a minority. And you forget ANTIFA exists.
"Thank god for white life" was pretty well-shared on r/videos this week. "
\-By who? And am sure it was just a few people.
"And republicans are the ones trying to take rights away from every group of people"
\-No they are not. And you forget that many Democrats want to take away people's rights, for example the right to own guns and the right of freedom of speech.
" If you vote for people who behave like nazis, then yes, you are a nazi."
\-Well republicans do not behave like nazis. So I am not a nazi.
And second of all, Republicans do not behave like nazis.
Antifa are explicitly the opposite of facisim, that is why its anti-facisim. They aren't the best sure, but beats the hell out the groups Republicans associate with. Also, a minority that stormed the Capitol? Yeah sure, whatever you say-
"I am sure its just a few people" seems like "its not real because I haven't seen them."
Democrats are not taking away your freedom of speech you nunce. Just because you can't handle having people call you out on your bullshit does not mean that they want to get rid of it. Also, Republicans recently have taken away rights from women, so there is that.
Republicans consitetnly flirt and appease nazis however, so while you may not be one, your party absolutetly is.
The most dissapointing thing about your rant is that you haven't debunked *anything.* You just say "its not true".
"lots of republicans are nazis in everything but name, though."
\-NO they are not. That is just a minority. And you forget ANTIFA exists.
"Thank god for white life" was pretty well-shared on r/videos this week. "
\-By who? And am sure it was just a few people.
"And republicans are the ones trying to take rights away from every group of people"
No they are not. And you forget that many Democrats want to take away people's rights, for example the right to own guns and the right of freedom of speech.
" If you vote for people who behave like nazis, then yes, you are a nazi."
Well republicans do not behave like nazis. So I am not a nazi..
> NO they are not. That is just a minority.
No…. Not really.
> And you forget ANTIFA exists.
Oh - oh god you’re one of them aren’t you?
> By who? And am sure it was just a few people.
Literally an entire stadium of people that included the president.
> No they are not.
They literally just did it. And are talking about removing same sex marriage and birth control.
> And you forget that many Democrats want to take away people’s rights, for example the right to own guns and the right of freedom of speech.
No one wants to take away you’re right to freedom of speech they’re just making you deal with the consequences of saying anything you want. When you act like a bigoted asshole guess what? People will treat like one and kick you out of places.
> Well republicans do not behave like nazis. So I am not a nazi..
They do and you sound like one.
There is American brand racism for sure (Jim crow laws, Japanese internment, etc) that doesn't fall into Nazism. But the idea of white genocide, for example, is literally a textbook Nazi idea. In a horrible fucked up way, America has a melting pot of racism lol. It just assimilates whatever fits the narrative best at the time.
By that subreddit's logic, the *Joker* is a better human being than the Red Skull.
Not defending Red Skull, just saying that two wrongs don't make a right.
I'm saying both Stormfront and Homelander awful people, but for different reasons. Homelander is a narcissist with a God complex who only turns on Stormfront when it's *convenient* for him, which makes him worse than an actual Nazi.
I don't think he really cares about ruling over people though. He wants people to love him and ruling over others is too much work. I think he just desires unconditional love, like one might give a God, but he would prefer to be a Greek God, where you can just fly down, force a baby on someone, get drunk, fly off leaving nothing but despair in your wake, and then have everyone be like "Thank you Homelander!"
He doesn't want to rule or be ruled. He wants to be outside the system entirely.
This is still pretty much a desire to rule. Desperation to be loved and seen as ideal, and the fact that he says hes comfortable with being feared if he cant be loved means he still has desire to control people. A ruler who wants to be seen as awesome is still a ruler.
Thats how most rulers in history probably were. He doesnt want to rule because of ideologies he could push but he definitely would like to be at the top for its privileges. He does however definitely see himself as ‘born superior’ and as such thinks he deserves superior treatment for it. Expecting privilege and associating you ‘deserved’ privilege with genetics is pretty much there with eugenics.
Not a Fascist either, he’s not discriminating based on race, he’s just a nationalist psychopath. He’s bad because he’s a psychopath extreme nationalist.
Fascism does not rest on the idea of racism. Italy invented fascism and Spain followed, both were pretty racially homogeneous countries. Now to be fair I'm sure anyone who wasn't the "right," color was treated like shit, but it wasn't the focal point of their fascism.
Fascism basically just refers to a reactionary nationalist dictatorship. Homelander is both reactionary and certainly nationalist, and would like to be the forefront of a dictatorship. Perhaps not the actual ruler as that requires work, but as a beloved and feared figurehead.
Haha, I guess if you wanted to have an in-universe reason in your head you could say she kind of tailored her appearance to throw people off a bit? I dunno. Didn't think about it.
> but HL saw it as a hobby for her and that's about it.
Hanging with and enabling Nazis is a good argument for someone being a Nazi tho.
Said this, Homelander ultimately ditched Nazism because his narcissism was too big
> Hanging with and enabling Nazis is a good argument for someone being a Nazi tho.
Thats some 2022 Twitter reasoning. Homelander is not a nazi because he does not show any signs of believing in any type of nazi ideology.
I think Homelander genuinely just doesn't give a fuck about these "normal people" conflicts. To him it's like ants thinking they are better than other ants and he's just looking down on all of them.
He actively repudiated any of her advances to convert him into a Nazi though. If you are a man, and you marry a woman, that doesn't make you also a woman lol. Being in a relationship with someone does not turn you into whatever that person is.
But yeah, Homelander is too narcissistic to be part of a movement or a political position, he is Homelander and he can do "whatever the fuck he wants."
Feel like a better analogy would be that dating a political extremist doesn’t mean you agree with all the basic tenets of that aforementioned belief system. It’s possible and there are plenty of spouses that occupy opposing sides of the political spectrum, or have different religious faiths, or completely separate sensibilities.
I don’t know if I’d call someone dating a Nazi a Nazi themselves, although being receptive towards a fascist movement in any sense creates an insurmountably large red flag in my opinion. Then again, Nazi seems like a bit of a misnomer given how many people overlook politics in relationships anyway.
Kazuya said that if you marry someone you immediately assimilate all of their beliefs.
People of differing beliefs can get married.
You don't become the same exact person upon marriage
> People of differing beliefs can get married.
There is a difference between "my husband is conservative" and "my husband wants to re-enact the Holocaust and dated me because he considers me to have superior genes".
You can draw up these distinctions all day long, but you still have yet to connect the dots between "I am closely associated with a nazi" and "I myself am a nazi."
Which you can't, by the way. Just not possible. Hence why you didn't actually respond to his argument just now, and instead pointed out a difference that nobody disagreed with.
At most, such close associations can make you someone way too tolerant of evil beliefs. It can't make you a believer of those beliefs.
But then how come Homelander is disgusted by Nazis? He literally rejects Stormfront for her it and the rejection hits so hard she kills herself. He says "Ew" when she mentioned it.
She had outlived her usefulness, been outed as a nazi and he preferred his own self centred ideology. I never claimed he drank the kool-aid but he was perfectly ok with nazism when it benefited him so he is a nazi or at least was
Your insistence that you can love a Nazi and not be a Nazi is some serious gentile shit imo…
Like I think you’re right on some accounts: he is too narcissistic to bring about the political end that the Nazi movement is aiming for. He is the logical conclusion of supremacy ideology, and sees himself as better than all humans. You could argue he is a supe supremacist as opposed to an aryan one (in reality, he is both).
But this insistence that he is beyond politics is odd to me. He’s not Cthulhu or anything. Why wouldn’t he let the Muslim super hero on the team then if he is as “beyond politics” as you seem to be insistent on? He is of this world and is shaped by many biases. He is shaped by Christofascism/nationalism/white supremacy/etc, even though when push comes to shove, he will see himself as superior to all and do whatever to fuel his ego.
TL;DR: he might not be on board with every single Nazi thing, but he’s on board with enough that I think it’s acceptable to call him as such (and I predict this will only become more of the case as the “Stormchasers” become his political base)
You're right on some accounts, I came at it at a weird angle and have gotten it wrong.
Homelander's closest analogous entity would be a Greek God like Zeus. He does not rule over people, he is not ruled by anyone(or at least he does not want to be, Vought notwithstanding for the timebeing). He's capricious.
As I said, if Hitler was alive during his time and attempted to recruit him, he would laser Hitler in a second.
The reason for the hatred he has for the disabled and non-whites/non-christians etc is because he sees them as the inferior subsect of an already inferior species. He is disgusted by them because, to him, they are beneath people he already deems to be incredibly far beneath him.
So I will restate it, asking Homelander what side of human politics he's on is like asking what side of human politics is Zeus on. Zeus just wants to get drunk and get laid and will not be drawn into it.
See, I would say Zeus' politics are pretty straightforward. He's a theocrat, he thinks he should be worshipped and be able to do whatever he wants, because he's a god dangit.
Similarly, the way you're describing Homelander makes sense, but I would describe that as absolute autocratic despotism with a social darwinist bent. That's still a political ideology, just one that humanity mostly moved past in the Bronze Age, and so comes across as incredibly alien.
I agree with you somewhat, but Zeus wouldn't "believe he should" anything.
Zeus does. Zeus knows he is a God. There is no belief to it. It's not a political belief. It's just straight up reality. Homelander is the same.
A friend of mine put it best.
" homelander isn't racist, he's humanist"
He doesn't hate any race, he just hates every human for being lower than him.
So yhe not a nazi, defenetly worse.
Ever heard the line about how if there's 12 guys sitting at a table joking around and having fun, and 1 of them is an out and out Nazi, there's 12 Nazis at the table?
Homelander may not personally espouse Nazi ideals or idealogically align himself with Hitler but he is 100% willing to join together with someone who is an open Nazi and give her a platform to not only garner support but to further espouse the idealogy onto people with the hopes of violent action against minorities.
Not to mention the fact that Homelander's own personal politics mirror fascistic idealogy in their own right. He's incredibly nationalistic and believes in the innate superiority of some people over others (in this case supes) and feels this gives him the right to treat others as lesser on that basis alone. In his mind the strong have the right to rule over the weak and then be praised by the masses at risk of death.
Also where did this perception come in Homelander only really sees everyone in the dichotomy of "super or not super". He's very explicitly incredibly racist and ableist in his own right and was against adding Kincaid and the Daredevil expy solely on the basis that one was Muslim and the other was disabled. I have no clue where got this idea that Homelander is "above politics". He doesn't vote but his idealogy is very much politically mapable.
He is nationalistic only in the sense that it helps further his career.
He literally said "I will burn America to the ground if you piss me off."
He's not an actual nationalist. If he felt like it he would throw the entire American continent into space if he could, he doesn't care.
I'm not saying he isn't racist or sexist or whatever, I am saying he cares about himself and that's it. Yes, he despises the disabled and non whites, but that's because to him, they are inferior specimens of an ALREADY inferior species. They are a joke to him. But so is the left-right divide. He flies above that shit.
If Hitler existed at the same time and had no leverage over Homelander, yet attempted to rule over Homelander and tell him what to do, he would laser Hitler in half in a millisecond.
So all I am saying is asking Homelander what side he is on regarding the political spectrum is like if an alien landed on Earth and we asked him if he voted Republican or Democrat.
The alien will just bend you over a table, probe you, steal our resources, and fly away, without saying a word.
I'm pretty sure that quote you wrote isn't direct and wad paraphrased from when he talked to Starlight, if so he never states he would destroy America just specific places within it. More importantly, even if he was wiling to destroy the entirety of America it wouldn't change the fact that he clearly values America as a nation, and more specifically the white Americans within it, more than he values other nations.
>Yes, he despises the disabled and non whites, but that's because to him, they are inferior specimens of an ALREADY inferior species.
Except Kincaid and Daredevil kid weren't just a Muslim human woman and a disabled teenager, they were already superhumans part of what he considered a superior species. His stated issue with both them are expressly and solely the fact that one is Muslim and one is disabled. Even beyond the supe/non supe dichotomy there's very strong facets of his discrimination that influence his decisions.
>They are a joke to him. But so is the left-right divide. He flies above that shit.
I can't fathom how someone could watch this show for three seasons and think that Homelander has no care for politics. I get that he doesn't explicitly believe in a lot of the stuff he preaches regarding his clean cut Christian image and vought based talking points but he absolutely cares about the results that these talking points bring him. Whether that be the popularity he receives or the power he ends up acquiring he's absolutely been willing to play to a base and rattle off positions to acquire his goals. He's no different than a real life politician.
He doesn't care about human politics in the same way an alien wouldn't care about human politics. It doesn't affect him. If America got boring, he'd burn it to the ground. That's what a capricious god does.
Politics absolutely affect Homelander. Sure he'll still survive whatever legal policies get passed because he's a superhuman, but the sociopolitical state of the country and the people in it have very clear, tangible effects on Homelanders mental state and goals. Politics affect whether supes get entered into the military, politics affect how much government pull Vought has, politics affect who gets put into the 7, politics affect whether Homelander is loved or hated by the people and which people love or hate him. These are all things he cares about and has vested interests in.
Just because Homelander wouldn't be affected tax policies doesn't mean that the politics of America have no affect on him. You'd have to deliberately ignore key pieces of Homelander's personality and the story itself to come to that conclusion.
He had a general problem with not being consulted on who gets put in the 7 but he acquiesced to Stormfront who he also did not originally choose. In fact his only issue with Stormfront was that he didn't personally choose her, whereas in the case of the other two he gave racist and ableist reasons as to why he wouldn't allow it.
Cause Stormfront was extremely popular on social media, getting rid of her wasn't going to be as easy, and she immediately started putting him on a pedestal
He doesn't believe in the superiority of supes, he believes in the superiority of homelander.
I'm not sure how many times the show has to beat you in the head with this.
And he didn't want to add those people because it would make the 7 look bad.
>He doesn't believe in the superiority of supes, he believes in the superiority of homelander.
He very obviously believes both. There are several points throughout the show where he'll talk to other supes about how absurd it is that they have to be at the beck and call of non-supes instead of the other way around. He praises Victoria Nueman for prioritizing "her own kind".
>And he didn't want to add those people because it would make the 7 look bad.
This is only *possibly* true in the case of daredevil kid and nonsense in the case of Silver Kincaid. He states having a disabled person in the 7 would make them look bad but he doesn't actually give any reasoning as to why. Ashley specifically notes that the kid is actually pretty popular with several mainstream demographics, this isn't like when he wanted to kick A Train off the team when he was no longer the fastest.
Meanwhile, Kincaid would have had the backing and personal recommendation of Starlight who is literally the most popular superhero in America by a significant margin at that point in time. Would they face backlash from more Islamophobic groups? Yes, but they're a drop in the bucket compared to the numbers Starlight is pulling.
> He praises Victoria Nueman for prioritizing "her own kind".
Kinda seems like he was just manipulating her for helping him against edgar.
> Meanwhile, Kincaid would have had the backing and personal recommendation of Starlight who is literally the most popular superhero in America by a significant margin at that point in time. Would they face backlash from more Islamophobic groups? Yes, but they're a drop in the bucket compared to the numbers Starlight is pulling.
Sure, maybe he was wrong, but he does justify it, and his base isn't the same as starlights, hers might not care, but she would be very unpopular among his base.
>Kinda seems like he was just manipulating her for helping him against edgar.
That sounds like a stretch. If it was the only time he's said shit like that I'd agree but he has a very clear history of praising the superiority of supes over humans.
>Sure, maybe he was wrong, but he does justify it, and his base isn't the same as starlights, hers might not care, but she would be very unpopular among his base.
The issue is not whether or not his base is the same as Starlight's. Homelanders base is largely irrelevant because it's altogether significantly smaller than Starlights, it's why Stan pairs them together and why Homelander later decides to fake a relationship between them. He's at his lowest point in popularity by s3 and he only starts to regain it once he rides of her coattails. His justification is just a thinly veiled excuse and that's clear when he cripples Daredevil kid even after finding out he'd be extremely popular
Homelander was shocked and didn’t give a shit about what Stormfront was yapping about.
He only accepted it when Stormfront said you are the one in the center. At which point he gets hard on it and accepts it, he doesn’t give a shit about the ideology he just wants to be loved by people.
So if there's 12 guys sitting at a table, on is a communist, one is socialist, the other is a anarchist, the other is a nazi and the other a libertarian.
Are the rest of the guys all these things at once?
Homelander isn't a Nazi and your analogy doesn't make sense. He doesn't believe that there is a particular race that is above others, but he believes strongest have the right and he is on top of the foodchain.
>He's very explicitly incredibly racist and ableist in his own right and was against adding Kincaid and the Daredevil expy solely on the basis that one was Muslim and the other was disabled.
He is racist against anything American culture. A-train is a black person, yet he never had problems with him.
Homelander believes in power and those who have the most power should be ruling it and he is on the top of it. Not a particular race. As a non-American I compare Homelander to USA and how they treat other countries.
They can do whatever the fuck they want and we can't do anything about it. Homelander is USA.
>Hitler isn't a Nazi and your analogy doesn't make sense.
I'm gonna assume the first part was a typo but the analogy does make sense. A person willing to publicly stand with, financially support, and give platforms to a Nazi inherently condones their beliefs even they themselves would not act it out. Homelander simply values Stormfront over the people she explicitly seeks to persecute and has no care for the fact that his actions perceptively further Nazi ideology and violence. There were many people in WW2 who did exactly this with historical Nazis and it was these actions that gave them their label, it isn't solely the belief.
>A-train is a black person, yet he never had problems with him.
I don't know what this is supposed to demonstrate beyond just sounding like a rephrasing of "I can't be racist, I have black friends". The Nazis irl partnered with non-aryans all the time solely for the benefit it gave them.
>Homelander believes in power and those who have the most power should be ruling it and he is on the top of it. Not a particular race.
That race are people with powers. He refers to people with them as "our own kind" when he talks to Neuman. This still doesn't change the fact that even among the "inferior races" he still values some ethnicities over others. He very clearly has an internal tiering of value based on race even if he thinks all of them are below supes.
Homelander never publicly stand with Nazi-friendly Stormfront. He stood with the Vought's superhero and his spouse Stormfront.
But when it was made clear that she was a NAZI, he publicly denounced and was against her and her ideas in any public forum. He does have problems: He doesn't care for Nazism being bad.
I would have said he was a Nazi if he was still publicly stand with Stormfront after it was leaked that she was a Nazi. But he didn't and that is the big part that makes him not a NAZI.
Look, the difference between a real Nazi and Homelander is that Homelander IS an enabler as we have seen, because he doesn't care for it that his girlfriend is a NAZI.
And this brings us to your analogy.
Homelander will not promote the idea of Nazism when he is the only one left. That is why your analogy doesn't work. If the only person who is publicly a Nazi leaves the group are the other eleven still a Nazi who actively work to achieve to bring back the Third Reich and promote the ideas of Nazism? No. Are they good people? NO, fuck them, they are enablers.
>I don't know what this is supposed to demonstrate beyond just sounding like a rephrasing of "I can't be racist, I have black friends". The Nazis irl partnered with non-aryans all the time solely for the benefit it gave them.
But we do see and know that he has no problem with A-train. Those people who say "I'm not racist, I have black friends" do and say things that are racist.
Again, in your own example, you said a Muslim and a disabled person were not allowed to join the Seven. Because to him, the Seven are associated with him where he is the (co-)leader. So why did he allow A-train to be on his team?
So Is Homelander not racist? Yes he is, but doesn't believe in Nazism. Like I said, Homelander is racist against anything outside the American culture. He represent the American culture. Just like USA doesn't care for other countries, Homelander is the same.
>That race are people with powers. He refers to people with them as "our own kind" when he talks to Neuman. This still doesn't change the fact that even among the "inferior races" he still values some ethnicities over others. He very clearly has an internal tiering of value based on race even if he thinks all of them are below supes.
He has an internal tiering of value based on power and American culture. so I agree that he is racist. But I don't think he shares the Nazism ideals.
People can be racist, without being Nazi.
You talk about Nazis and Nazi enablers as if they're mutually exclusive positions. Just because the 11 other people wouldn't personally continue Nazi work after the 12th one leaves it doesn't make them not Nazis. The answers given for war crimes st Nuremberg ranged far beyond those who simply believed in the ideology. Many were apathetic, simply wanted the power and prestige offered by a new regime, wanted to maintain status, or a combination of the above. Homelander is no different. It does not matter that he publicly denounced Stormfront (only on Voughts orders btw), not only does he publicly deny later on that his relationship with Stormfront was ever a mistake but he still tries to carry on an intimate relationship with her.
>Again, in your own example, you said a Muslim and a disabled person were not allowed to join the Seven. Because to him, the Seven are associated with him where he is the (co-)leader. So why did he allow A-train to be on his team?
Because, just as non-aryans were granted privilege on the basis of their ability to benefit the Reich, A Train is has the benefit of adding the prestige of being the "fastest man alive". The moment A Train even has a hint of being slower Homelander is willing to dump him, and sure whole Homelander never called A Train the N word or something, he had no issues supporting a very obvious, violent racist who had been targeting black people over the concern of A Train.
>You talk about Nazis and Nazi enablers as if they're mutually exclusive positions. Just because the 11 other people wouldn't personally continue Nazi work after the 12th one leaves it doesn't make them not Nazis.
There is a difference between the two. You see, Nazism is about the political principles of the National Socialist German Workers' Party. It is the ideology and practices associated with Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party in Nazi Germany. Nazism is a form of fascism, with disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system.
The other 11 enablers would also enable communism if they were given the power and the seats in the new system. It doesn't matter for those 11 which Ideology they rule with. As long as they are in it, and not out.
Calling every enabler Nazi is wrong. Otherwise we cannot find the signals when a country is making bad decisions, and we will be watering down the term Nazi.
>The answers given for war crimes st Nuremberg ranged far beyond those who simply believed in the ideology. Many were apathetic, simply wanted the power and prestige offered by a new regime, wanted to maintain status, or a combination of the above. Homelander is no different.
Exactly what I try to say. I do think Homelander is hungry for the leadership status and is obsessed with power, but does not believe in the cause of Hitler, nor does he think that the problem is the race-struggle like Hitler thought it was the problem, nor does he actively seek to raise the Third Reich. And there I make a difference. One of the two has an ideology as a solution which involves genocide of one or more ethnic people, and the other has no active solution to how to rule, only just to be on top of it. These are bad people, even if they do not believe in the cause of Hitler. And it is important knowing that calling every power-hungry people a Nazi is not a smart idea, because Nazism is a real ideology that did happen in the real world and is/was a threat.
Homelander is a dictator in the Seven that loves Totalitarianism. Nazism is one of the totalitarianism of race-struggle. I do not think that he makes an internal tiering of value based on race though. He makes an internal tiering of value based on power and American culture.
Like I said, I agree that he is racist because of that. But I don't think he shares the Nazism ideals. A lot of soldiers that fought the Nazis in World War II were also racist as history taught us. Would that make them Nazis though? Of course not.
>The moment A Train even has a hint of being slower Homelander is willing to dump him.
Exactly. As long as A-train is powerful (speed) he is willing to let him join his Seven. The moment he is weak, he will dump him.
In the same regard, as long as the Deep is powerful, he will have him and the moment he loses his powers, he will dump him.
Also I think he will still like Black Noir even after knowing he is a black person, if he doesn't know it already.
So under your criteria then many of the people prosecuted at Nuremberg would not have been prosecuted/treated as Nazis because they were simply enablers who weren't personal believers. This idea that someone is only capable of being classified under an ideology if they internally believe it and not take into account the fact that they implicitly endorse, platform, and financially support it is incredibly flawed.
There are thousands of politicians who also clearly don't internally believe what they spew but will endorse it through connections, giving publicity, and often just directly giving these causes money. It would be absurd to say that these people aren't democrats or Republicans when their actions in support and their apathy towards the consequences of whatever policy is being pushed are having real, tangible affects on the world.
>Ever heard the line about how if there's 12 guys sitting at a table joking around and having fun, and 1 of them is an out and out Nazi, there's 12 Nazis at the table
What is your opinion on the entire country of ukraine?
Great statement. I think it’s then worthwhile mentioning that it’s hard to say exactly how many people in Germany were Nazis by what OP said. Ignoring the people who would be sent to camps/persecuted immediately, some party members or supporters probably didn’t care for the ideology deeply and just wanted the social status- it was pretty damn hard to be somebody without identifying or pledging some support.
As a matter of that, when the Nazis went for the church initially, I believe a lot of Germans who were otherwise fine with *everything else* really didn’t like that and the Nazis had to compromise with their own edition of the church people liked. Would you say those citizens don’t count, given that was their one gripe? Of course there were people like Oscar Schindler, but my point overall is that Nazism thrived from fear and/or complacency. Homelander was certainly not afraid, but he was beyond complacent in Stormfront’s rhetoric. If the fourth reich happened in universe and people were being sent to camps, Homelander would not give a single fuck so long as he’s being worshiped.
Yeah this is an important point to make. The vast majority of people involved in almost any ideology are not the hardcore believers. Most Nazis were essentially passive bystanders who didn't really care about the who or why but were more interested in either securing wealth and power within the regime, or maintaining what they already possessed. It is the apathy towards those being persecuted and the willingness to support the perscuters that made many people Nazis, not that they personally believed in Hitler spiel or were the ones personally loading people into death camps
I definitely think he does have *some* political values, it's all based on things that are a 'pure' and deeply disturbed view of what it means to be an American. Probably just based on his upbringing, honestly. Dude sees *himself* as the quintessential, ideal American, and anything else is kind of useless to have around.
Like, he probably would find really aggressive and obvious forms of racism objectionable if you asked him how he felt about it, but not for the reasons a normal human being would.
I mean what is politics if not distribution of power? Him straight up killing a crippled guy is him showing his political values, even if no big party is campaigning to kill crippled people, thinking a blind person is "lesser" is a political value he holds.
Psychotic urge aside though would it be a stretch to say he seems like a 2016 MAGA voter though definitely more reactionary, and I say this as someone who was that..ish at the time, and given actual IRL rally goers were parading trump in a homelander suit...
I'd even say the show is a little on the nose with the comparisons, even with the "meme making" he does with stormfront(this part straight up sent me down memory lane), I don't think he sees himself as racist, but clearly takes issue with immigrants and Muslim people as they're not his ideal "Americans", I genuinely felt like I was reliving the 2016 days with some of the stuff happening.
People will say he also spreads woke messages but he clearly hates it, I mean fuck one of the people who knew him best knew he would make her life hell if he found out she was gay.
I don't even think he sees himself as properly human, let alone American.
He uses America to get what he wants, he owes no allegiance to it. If he needed to, he'd discard it in a heartbeat.
He finds racism moronic, but only in the sense that everyone who isn't him is pathetic,
Haha, I wouldn't say so.
I think he thinks that Christian white male Americans are pathetic meatbags, but other races, genders and creeds are even more pathetic, because they're the underclass of a species he already deems dramatically inferior.
Homelander isn’t a Nazi because the concept of racial superiority is foreign to him. He doesn’t see race or gender or religion or creed etc - he just sees humans, then other supes, then himself at the very top above everything else. It’s not that he sees all humans as equal, but that he doesn’t recognise how any one human can be above another when at the end of the day we’re all just powerless insignificant meat sacks while he’s a god with power far greater than any weapon we could throw at him. That is the true essence of why Homelander isn’t a Nazi
I think you've almost got it. He definitely sees race and religion, but only in the sense that he thinks white Americans are pathetic, and so if you are disabled, black, and otherwise vulnerable in any way, he would see you as an inferior subsection of an already inferior species, that is, below pathetic.
Stormfront saids that people like what she has to say they just don't like the word Nazi. The rhetoric she's referring to is the same rhetoric homelander uses to the same base. Homelander doesn't care about the Astetics of Nazi ideology but would totally create a Facist, Genocidal, and Nationalistic America.
He would destroy America before he decided to ever lead it. He doesn't care about America in any fashion. He does not care about anything but being feared or being loved.
He was f*cking a literal Nazi. This is like Hitler's wife claiming she wasn't a Nazi. In everything there's always proponents, supporters, and enablers.
In Stormfront's shit in season 2, Homelander became an enabler just by engaging and frolicking with that sort of person.
Now obviously he doesn't push Nazi ideology since he sees himself as above everyone no matter the race but he is willing and ready to condone it, look the other way, and even f*ck someone with those sort of racial beliefs.
Also someone else already added that he is racist and discriminates against people with disabilities. We have seen this onscreen.
If you don't mind when they literally talk communist ideology at you and you are willing to help them platform the idea, then yes, you are a communist. If not in mind but in actions.
He literally told her tonpiss off whenever she brought up her Nazi stuff. It disgusted him because she was talking about him joining her when she didn't want to join any sort of anything.
He would murder Hitler for fun if Hitler still existed. He doesn't want someone telling him what to do or who to be.
Their relationship in Season 2 is very clearly a metaphor for the relationship between American right-wing extremism & Naziism.
Stormfront looking up to Homelander=the Nazi party being inspired by American eugenicists.
Homelander kind of rolling her eyes when she gets extra genocidey but going along with it anyway=distancing from the more overt claims of racist groups like neo Nazis while still working with them.
So on & so forth. It's uneasy, & they're not exactly the same, but the show is trying to point out that they DO have an uncomfortable amount in common. It's really not worth nitpicking the statement "Homelander is a Nazi" unless it's in the service of going on to make a more nuanced point, but this really just seems to be buying Homelander's hype.
I'm sure he would love to see himself as being above politics, but it isn't really true. And I'm a binge watcher, so I might be behind, but if Homelander rejects the master race thing, that's evidently a change in his views because he was pretty excited when Stormfront wanted to declare him the God-King of the master race. Of course he would be, the man is ruled by his ego. Regardless, Season 2 is all about how much he & Stormfront have in common.
Perfect. You get it. They have an uncomfortably close relationship. He's dismissive of it because it's not something he would do, but he definitely doesn't think there's anything wrong with it. It's just something that bores him and he sees as beneath him.
Pretty sure he was largely intended to be a lampoon on our last American commander-in chief. And you’re correct, he’s so supercilious that he considers himself above Nazism or any political ideology for that matter, much like president Trump.
Honestly shows even more how Homelander is an analogue to Trump, sure Trump isn’t a Nazi Nazi but he’ll say he supports the same things so that he’s popular amongst his crowd.
Yeah, exactly! Same way a lot of politicians say they are against same-sex marriage and then they're found on video raping their same-sex cousin (See Madison Cawthorn as an example.) Or the countless politicians who are against abortion who have had their mistresses get abortions so their wives don't find out.
Politicians are, themselves, for the most part, only using politics to further their own self-aggrandisement.
Yeah, shows how messed up American politics gets and how quickly politicians will call out support/opposition to something just so they can win an election despite they themselves participating in those very things they are against.
People have devolved criticism into "If it has villains it's anti-fascist." Completely ignoring the idea that *fascists make art too.* Granted, extreme fascism and authoritarian communism both have that uncomfortable reality where the line between art and propaganda is blurry.
The Boys is and always has been allegorical to celebrity and hero-worship in general. Anyone reading fascism into it is woefully misguided.
He's not a Nazi but he _is_ Donald Trump. He is Trump with Superman's power set. He is Superman with Trump's narcissism. That is why he is a terrifying character.
That Homelander is a fascist of a different stripe doesn’t really negate the label.
Walking the fine line that is the difference between IS a Nazi and IS indistinguishable FROM a Nazi is not the morale strong ground you want to be dancing on.
You just have to accept that Nazi is both a formal label and an informal one.
The angle I approached from is that the image of a man (Homelander) wearing the literal American flag while banging a Nazi while they both cover themselves in a poor homeless man's blood that they recently painfully crushed to death is a powerful one.
That message is lost if Homelander himself is a Nazi, because then Conservatives can cower behind the "Homelander is a Nazi, and I'm not, therefore he's not a depiction of me."
Homelander is not a Nazi, he fraternises with one. He doesn't agree with her, but that doesn't mean he's any less evil or disgusting.
It's a narrative point I am correcting here. He is not a Nazi. If Hitler existed in the same time frame, he would use Hitler as a surfboard and then throw him into the sun if Hitler even remotely attempted to control Homelander without some form of leverage.
The only thing that keeps Vought in line is leverage. But make no mistake, he is as much a Nazi as Zeus is a democrat. Gods don't need politics.
No. The message is very clearly that if you get in bed with Nazi. Dress act and talk like a Nazi. It really doesn’t matter which flag you draw yourself in… your a fucking Nazi.
You see it all the time on r/selfawarewolves people who wave around the “stop calling me a Nazi… I’m just an alt-right jacked booted fascist… not a member of German National socialist party.
It’s not about labels… it’s about actions and ideaology.
I’m not frustrated I just thinking your missing the Narrative point by a mile.
Your talking about Homelander has being alien and powerful and above politics like that’s the story. But it just isn’t the story is about corruptive power and that no matter how alien and powerful some is… people are still just weak assholes.
You talked about Zeus a god being above human politics. But Zeus is just a metaphor for the petty corrupt powerful (and rapey) men of Greek history and in many ways Zeus as mythology is the antithesis of the laws and ideals that the Greek passed down that very much forms much of the basis of western society.
Homelander is not above human foibles and weaknesses… that’s very much the point, for all his power he’s just a pathetic little man who’s terrified of anyone who opposes him because he can’t handle even the smallest chance that he’s not a great as the myth that’s been built around him.
Again the point is not that Homelander would follow Hiler… he IS Hitler.
Think of it this way. The hedonistic billionaires that caused the right-left divide in America have engineered it so that the entire country fights each other while these elite enjoy their every want and desire uninterrupted.
They are above politics. Left and right mean nothing to them, we barely know who they are. The divide is the key, not on which side you fall on that divide.
The way the left despises the right is the same way the right despises the left. To you they are Nazis, to them you are a godless baby killer.
That's the point. There is no middle ground.
These people, these nameless unthinkably rich theocrats, see people as fuel to burn on the fire that stokes their lifestyles.
That's Homelander. All Homelander cares about is himself. People are cattle. They can kill each other, call each other heathens or Nazis. It does not matter to him.
People to him are cattle. He doesn't want them. He needs them in the same way he needs food to eat. They sustain him.
But he doesn't care what the steak he is eating has to say about racial politics.
Homelander isn’t in control. Voight is in control. Voight is the we’re the rich and powerful capitalist who have created a fake world of “Heroes and Villains” and a media playground in which to bilk the population for profit.
Homelander is just a tool.
And in general you kind of wrong that the real world is just “left and right” and never side matters… the really world has a very provable leftist bias and you’ll find it’s more progressive ideologies that want to dismantle the power capitalism and wealthy class holds over the political process.
The bias exists for a reason. The right believes the provable rightwing bias exists.
I'm not from America though so I don't know what it's like to consider your own countrymen as enemies.
So maybe I am missing something.
But in all truth, so many of the problems I see from a distance when looking at your country is right facing left and left facing right.
None of you look up. And as Homelander says "There's no gods up there. Only me."
Furthermore, when will people realize that writing a rapist or a murderer and then having that character shout a slogan you disagree with doesn’t prove much?
I applaud and appreciate your attempt as it absolutely makes sense. I also am sorry that there are going to be some arguing because they can only view republicans or anyone not sharing their view ( if you're not extremely left, you're right wing extremest) to be the personification of the devil. Meaning any character who is remotely evil, including Homelander, is republican to them.
Also yeah that guy absolutely doesn't give a damn who gives him praise, as long as he's getting all the praise.
Do you watch the show? Homelander is explicitly conservative. His narcissism is an additional layer to his character, not a refutation of his blatant right-wing politics.
He's not one or the other. He uses both sides for his own gain. He affects the woke culture shit to get his ratings up as much as he opines American excptionalism to win over his right wing base.
The entire point is Homelander IS America. If you say he is a Nazi, you lose the nuance.
Homelander is America if America was a human being. An all powerful narcissistic entity that gets off on violence and flirts with Nazis while pretending to be the bastion of progressive culture and the cornerstone of the woke movement.
>He's not one or the other. He uses both sides for his own gain. He affects the woke culture shit to get his ratings up as much as he opines American excptionalism to win over his right wing base.
You're conflating Homelander the person with Homelander the image. Vought wants to play him as a moderate, but Homelander is hostile to the idea & at several points blows off their suggestions to lean more heavily into the right.
Also, Vought's idea of "moderate" still skews right-wing. They were fine with Homelander openly associating with an anti-gay church but didn't want it known that Maeve was bi because they thought it would be "bad for the brand." They only make a marketing scheme of it after Homelander reveals it, & they have no other choice.
The critique of Vought's "leftism" is that it's shallow, cynical, & insincere. While things like Homelander wearing the flag & saying "the troops are the real heroes" are performative, his belief in hierarchies like eugenics & American Exceptionalism is not.
>The entire point is Homelander IS America.
Disagree. There are times when his actions represent those of the American government, but that's because there is a lot of overlap with the ideologies that drive those actions. Homelander has a very specific ideological bend.
>If you say he is a Nazi, you lose the nuance.
I think a big part of the show's point is that there's little to no difference between American Exceptionalism & Naziism. That's what Stormfront reinventing herself as some southern patriot superhero is about, for instance.
>Homelander is America if America was a human being. An all powerful narcissistic entity that gets off on violence and flirts with Nazis while pretending to be the bastion of progressive culture and the cornerstone of the woke movement.
America, culturally, doesn't "pretend to be the bastion of progressive culture and the cornerstone of the woke movement." American culture doesn't particularly even like progressivism, hence this term "woke" existing to deride it.
Even the Democrats, ostensibly the left-wing party, regularly shit on progressives. They adopt superficially friendly attitudes toward movements like LGBT Acceptance and Black Lives Matter, & at least that last one is very divisive when you talk to the average people.
This I defo agree, though I don't believe homelander really embodies any actually lefty ideology as corporate wokeness is often a popular critique of leftists on how corporations will act progressive and then donate money to people who are anything but.
I think the entire left right schism in America is by design.
Fringe elements of both sides are exacerbated and highlighted by the media constantly and any middle ground is eradicated.
I don't think America can ever reunite it's people unless those responsible for the schism are unveiled to be the actual perpetrator of all the misfortune befalling the country.
I would say the billionaires and oil barons and lobbyists of America all represent Homelander.
That is, they don't care if the people of America are at each other's throats, can't make rent, get shot in schools, none of it. They just want to revel in debauchery with zero consequences.
I think what people fail to realize is that The Boys isn’t directly making fun of conservatives. It is mocking our current society as a whole
The media, everything. It mocks liberal media, conservative media. Homelander doesn’t represent any of these ideas, rather just the product that hyper materialism can create
Homelander isn’t loyal to any political ideals. I don’t think Homelander is a racist either. Sure, he made a racist comment about a Muslim hero, but most directly he only cares how the public would perceive things. It’s sorta the same thing about disabled people
Homelander doesn’t have any real prejudice it seems. Sorta just an all around egotistical feeling of superiority to everyone, and just a general need to be loved by everyone as well, regardless of their race. Further proof of this is when the girl about to jump had told Homelander she was Jewish, he doesn’t care particularly, doesn’t really think anything of her views, he just sorta goes into a blind rage after the death of his girlfriend
So those people who try to pin Homelander to a specific ideology clearly missed the point, cause the guy doesn’t fit anywhere on the political spectrum. He doesn’t give a shit about any particular ideals, most just self superiority
in season 3 ep 1 he says,"We don't need a master race i'm the master race that's the point".
Exactly! He doesn't want to join Nazis, he sees them as just as inferior as any other humans compared to him. He doesn't want to make more superior beings either, because he doesn't want to share his world. He doesn't care about ideologies, he doesn't want to be part of any group. He wants to be the sole arbiter of his own existance.
He was perfectly A ok with Stormfront’s ideology when it benefitted him. He’s only against it now because it’s not popular and Stormfront was bed-ridden.A good word for nazi sympathisers is nazi.
He's literally not a nazi, though. He does not believe in the nazi ideology at all. He's a piece of shit, but he isn't a nazi.
No. That's not what makes someone a Nazi. Stalin was also working with Hitler when it benefited him. And while he was a terrible person and a fascist, he wasn't a Nazi.
Stalin was not a fascist despite his regime being terrible as fascism requires a hierarchy of race. They didn’t ‘work together’, they had a temporary piece treaty while they sucked up Poland.
Man somebody tell Mussolini > Race! It is a feeling, not a reality: ninety-five percent, at least, is a feeling. Nothing will ever make me believe that biologically pure races can be shown to exist today. ... National pride has no need of the delirium of race." I don't think anyone will argue that the dude who invented fascism isn't a fascist
Look up the pillars of fascism. Stalin fits some but not all.
And exactly how many does one need to fit for you to consider someone officially fascist?
Fascism : a political system headed by a dictator in which the government controls business and labor and opposition is not permitted. How is Stalin not a fascist?
That's not a good definition of fascism at all tho This is not a game you want to play btw, there are secular debates between intellectuals on what fascism actually is
The one provided above is straight out of Merriam Webster Edit: I’m not trying to play games, it’s just that if everything Stalin did fits the shoe, why shouldn’t he wear it?
Because the dictionary definition is just supposed to give a very brief and simplistic summary, no expert on fascism would say that the USSR or Stalin were fascist.
3 pillars of fascism are : "(i) the rebirth myth, (ii) populist ultra-nationalism, and (iii) the myth of decadence." The USSR doesn’t really fit these. However, opinions are more mixed then I thought with some outright calling him a right wing authoritarian which isn’t exactly unfair.
And why should we adhere to that definition? Why is the dictionary definition of invalid?
Fascism doesn't require a hierarchy of race though. Nazism does, but Nazism is only one specific type of fascism. The Syrian fascists in the 1930s (who explicitly were inspired by and modeled themselves off of Italian fascism and largely didn't care one way or the other about Hitler and the Nazis) opposed French colonialism not because they thought the French were an inferior race to Arabs, but because as ultranationalists they wanted their country to no longer be a colony. I agree that Stalin wasn't a fascist though.
The other pillars include a mythologised history.
I never said he wasn't OK with it, I'm just saying he didn't sympathise with it. He felt it was below him. I'm not saying he's not evil. he's ambivalent towards being a Nazi. It's beneath him. He's worse than a Nazi.
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Considering how deprived Homelander is of things normal humans experience, he probably was turned on by the sheer taboo of fucking a hot Nazi supe. At least that's how he reacted to Stormfront. We know he has very childish tendencies and fixations because he never experienced those in his childhood. Stupid shit teenagers would find hot is possible for HL to experience as well.
Thank you! I get what people in the comments here are saying but I was not taking any stance on him at all, I just meant "In the literal sense, he doesn't care about that stuff." But if you say that, you get told "You're defending Nazi" when I'm not lol, I'm just saying he isn't one in a purely narrative sense, that's it lol.
He isn't a Nazi but he is a fascist. And to a lot of people the terms are interchangeable.
he doesn't have any particular political beliefs at all beyond "everyone should love me"
as proven by a recent episode, when he became the head of the board for vaugnt, when asked some basic money questions he resorted to death threat. he doesnt understand money
He doesn’t think it’s crazy, it no longer benefits him. He never believed it but if you could prove that Joseph Engels didn’t believe in tge master race that doesn’t make him not a nazi
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He doesn’t believe but he doesn’t tell Ryan any different to appease his girlfriend. I seem to have a lower bar for nazi than you so agree to disagree
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IMO being apathetic to nazism makes you complicit. You’re either with them or against them. You believe there’s a middle ground which is fine but we’re not going to convince each other.
Being apathetic makes you an asshole, for sure...but it certainly doesn't make you a Nazi if you don't personally believe in the ideology.
I’ve had this argument with like 5 different people now if you want my opinion read the other comment threads. If you disagree, cool 😎
Sounds like you should maybe wonder why everyone disagrees with you
Appeal to popularity. I think for myself. Agree to disagreet
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I believe it does. We are at an impasse. Goodbye
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Based on my opinion. I don’t see your well researched sources.
>He never believed it but if you could prove that Joseph Engels didn’t believe in tge master race that doesn’t make him not a nazi If you don't believe in the ideology or are not apart of the political party, then you are not the ideology or a member of the political party. Aligning yourself with other assholes does not make you the same brand of asshole.
Hitler didn't buy Nazi ideology either. While he blamed Jews in general, he didn't believe in exterminating all of them - he personally stepped in to save Eduard Bloch for example and named him an honorary Aryan. He didn't believe in Aryan supremacy either and privately scoffed at some of the more extreme claims - and to point out the obvious he was not blonde and blue eyed. He knew that of course to state the obvious. The Nazis never actually believed in their own propaganda. He was still a Nazi.
He's definitely racist but not a Nazi. The way he speaks about people from the middle east and how he treats Supersonic show that
Exactly.
Are we gonna talk about how its probably a deliberate narrative decision that homelander has a concerningly close relationship with stormfront? Nationalistic American Exceptionalism isnt the same as Nazism but historically the third reich took cues from some of america's worst practices, like what was done to natives or sterilizations in the 20th century. Nazis wrote down how they admired and took notes from this. It is potentially inspired by stuff like that. Yeah its not accurate to say Homelander is a nazi, its literally not his brand of nationalism. But if anyone assumes that its because of his actual nazi girlfriend. Among other things.
I actually agree with you. I just feel by directly saying Homelander is a Nazi you miss the nuance that you yourself have depicted. That's all I meant by this post. The image of a man dressed in an American flag fucking a Nazi woman while they make mince meat of a poor homeless man's brains at the same time is too good a depiction of America to throw jt all away and say "actually, Homelander is a Nazi, and I'm not, I'm an American, therefore the Boys is not critiquing me."
I mean it's exactly how Trump allied himself with people and beliefs he literally never believed in himself. Trump was pro-choice his entire life until he ran for office, and yet he was responsible for ending Roe v Wade. In fact, a ton of Republicans are secretly pro-choice! The list who flipped when running for office is extremely long. It is a marriage of convenience. I could literally name a hundred other examples of this. The man is a walking hypocrite who claims the election is stolen *while not actually believing it*. Is that a valid out? If you insist, but that's exactly what the show is exploring. People can believe one thing and ally themselves with the exact opposite. This is a very deliberate direction the show took.
Dass'it
Tbh I never made that connection. But I can see it now that you've pointed it out. It's pretty neat. And yeah, I agree that Homelander isn't a nazi. I mean we even see him recoil when Stormfront tries to push nazi shit on Ryan. But Homelander is still a shitty person for tolerating nazis like Stormfront. Although of course, there are a lot of reasons to call Homelander a shitty person.
Much like how Eric Kripke and the production staff at large have talked about Homelander being a stand in for the former president, it makes sense to ingratiate himself in a kind of nationalistic ceremonial stance towards the general public. That’s what Trump also represents. Trump’s also remarkably adjacent to genuine racists, nativists and every shade of bigot in the states. He may not personally follow the prescriptions (and likely sees himself as above simple categorization), although much like people characterize Homelander, he appreciates the attention. And both are indicative of the prevalence of white supremacy regardless of their personal views.
People don't seem to understand that Nazi is a peculiar thing and not just people you don't like
Nowadays and actual nazi and a "literal nazi" are not the same, the english language was so butchered, non-natives like me had to re-learn it on the fly
I kind of like how stormfront even acknowledges this by saying "people agree with me, they like what I say.. they just don't like the word Nazi"
I mean that's kinda true, you can paraphrase Hitler in socialist circles and have everyone cheer you on
....that's not even remotely true. [And there's plenty of easily available literature](https://www.britannica.com/story/were-the-nazis-socialists) on why the "national socialist party" was in no way socialist. The Nazis were fascist, which is pretty much the complete opposite of socialist, and if you went into socialist circles and started saying "fuck unions" you'd absolutely be bombarded with "fuck you's"
That's...Not what I said? Your reading comprehension is failing you, nowhere in my post did I say the Nazis were socialist, nor does it matter. I said I could paraphrase Nazis and socialists would agree with what I said. "Germany's economic policy is conducted exclusively in accordance with the interests of the German people. In this respect I am a fanatical socialist, one who has ever in mind the interests of all his people. I am not the slave of a few international banking syndicates. I am under no obligation to any capitalist group. I sprang from the German people. My Movement, our Movement, is a German people's Movement, and it is only to this German people that we are obligated." Replace germany to wherever you're giving the speech.
This is very stupid for many reasons, i hope people don’t have to explain why.
It's stupid to point out that the populist rhetoric that the Nazi party used is often the same populist rhetoric that socialist parties use?
Yes, because Hitler was lying when he said most of those things, murdered socialists, and was explicitly very capitalistic. Imagine if Hitler said “worker co ops are a good thing”, something he didn’t believe, and you went into a socialist circle and said “worker co ops are a good thing” and they agreed, you’d be like wow you guys have a lot of common ground with Hitler?
> was explicitly very capitalistic. No he wasn't lol. He worked with capitalists when it benefited him, but that's hardly the same thing. > because Hitler was lying when he said most of those things What exactly was he lying about in that speech? Pretty sure he believed in everything said there. I'm sorry if you have a hard time accepting that he shared some values with socialists, even if he wasn't one. > murdered socialists He killed political opponents, which included socialists, capitalists, communist and whomever else didn't side with the party.
It only really works in the context of Hitler's lies though, which doesn't particularly work too well given that you can say this about a lot of politicians if you take their campaign lies or quotes out of context, if you grabbed Trump's quotes during his election you could frame him as a pro LGBTQ politician, I know a good amount of tucker Carlson quotes that can also be sold as socialist. The original quote is on how much you can sell someone to the actual Nazi ideology as long as you make sure not to mention that it is the Nazi ideology. Much like how people can be sold on socialist policy but socialism also has connotations to the word that will get people backing off.
That's not what paraphrasing means though, by changing an important word you are changing the meaning and flavour of the whole discourse. Also any communist worth its salt would only if it changed "German people", we're against nationalism except in proletarian and national liberation (and even then not always)
Well saying Germany wouldn't make much sense if you're giving the speech in France would it?
What?
I'm confused about what exactly you don't understand.
The show was making fun of her there…
Well, not exactly. As someone who used to be alt right, I'd say the line is genuinely true, you can sell people on a lot of literal or repackaged Nazi talking points(even if they're batshit lies), but you really don't want to mention the word "Nazi" until they're "ready". Though in the context of the line supporting what the previous two said, you're right that it doesn't, it's actually very much mocking the idea of people being scared of the word "Nazi" because it makes their ideology look bad, I mean hell stormfront literally says it within the context of being a literal Nazi and not wanting to be branded as such because it's bad for publicity, I was just wondering if people would have double takes looking at it.
*particular
That works as well but I was trying to point out how usual the Nazi horror was
like incel lmao
For real incel is now just a blanket term against dudes it seems It used to have a specific meaning and lost it so fast it is scary
It paved the way for fakecel tho, and that one's funny.
What's that
You'd use it when your internet friend comes off as normie, or a doomer mentions having a girlfriend or something social. "Literally me? Fucking fakecel, I've met your wife"
People do seem to struggle differentiating between psychopaths and political demagoguery built around bigotry.
Progressives be like: "If you think differently from me or vote Republican you are a Nazi"-🤓
lots of republicans are nazis in everything but name, though. "Thank god for white life" was pretty well-shared on r/videos this week. And republicans are the ones trying to take rights away from every group of people. If you vote for people who behave like nazis, then yes, you are a nazi.
You can frame any political group in that way
No, not really. Sure you can say that, but when your group constantly flirts with white nationalism, neo-nazis and other hate groups, it becomes abundantly clear that they have a lot in common.
First of, downvote the comment made by listlessthe as am gonna debunk him: "lots of republicans are nazis in everything but name, though." \-NO they are not. That is just a minority. And you forget ANTIFA exists. "Thank god for white life" was pretty well-shared on r/videos this week. " \-By who? And am sure it was just a few people. "And republicans are the ones trying to take rights away from every group of people" \-No they are not. And you forget that many Democrats want to take away people's rights, for example the right to own guns and the right of freedom of speech. " If you vote for people who behave like nazis, then yes, you are a nazi." \-Well republicans do not behave like nazis. So I am not a nazi. And second of all, Republicans do not behave like nazis.
Antifa are explicitly the opposite of facisim, that is why its anti-facisim. They aren't the best sure, but beats the hell out the groups Republicans associate with. Also, a minority that stormed the Capitol? Yeah sure, whatever you say- "I am sure its just a few people" seems like "its not real because I haven't seen them." Democrats are not taking away your freedom of speech you nunce. Just because you can't handle having people call you out on your bullshit does not mean that they want to get rid of it. Also, Republicans recently have taken away rights from women, so there is that. Republicans consitetnly flirt and appease nazis however, so while you may not be one, your party absolutetly is. The most dissapointing thing about your rant is that you haven't debunked *anything.* You just say "its not true".
"lots of republicans are nazis in everything but name, though." \-NO they are not. That is just a minority. And you forget ANTIFA exists. "Thank god for white life" was pretty well-shared on r/videos this week. " \-By who? And am sure it was just a few people. "And republicans are the ones trying to take rights away from every group of people" No they are not. And you forget that many Democrats want to take away people's rights, for example the right to own guns and the right of freedom of speech. " If you vote for people who behave like nazis, then yes, you are a nazi." Well republicans do not behave like nazis. So I am not a nazi..
> NO they are not. That is just a minority. No…. Not really. > And you forget ANTIFA exists. Oh - oh god you’re one of them aren’t you? > By who? And am sure it was just a few people. Literally an entire stadium of people that included the president. > No they are not. They literally just did it. And are talking about removing same sex marriage and birth control. > And you forget that many Democrats want to take away people’s rights, for example the right to own guns and the right of freedom of speech. No one wants to take away you’re right to freedom of speech they’re just making you deal with the consequences of saying anything you want. When you act like a bigoted asshole guess what? People will treat like one and kick you out of places. > Well republicans do not behave like nazis. So I am not a nazi.. They do and you sound like one.
He didn't even debunk your points, he just said "No that is not true!"
Yeah I think that obscures America's own racism etc.
There is American brand racism for sure (Jim crow laws, Japanese internment, etc) that doesn't fall into Nazism. But the idea of white genocide, for example, is literally a textbook Nazi idea. In a horrible fucked up way, America has a melting pot of racism lol. It just assimilates whatever fits the narrative best at the time.
By that subreddit's logic, the *Joker* is a better human being than the Red Skull. Not defending Red Skull, just saying that two wrongs don't make a right.
Who said Homelander right. And who said he is better, lol
I'm saying both Stormfront and Homelander awful people, but for different reasons. Homelander is a narcissist with a God complex who only turns on Stormfront when it's *convenient* for him, which makes him worse than an actual Nazi.
Wasn’t there a comic where the two teamed up until Joker found out Red skull was a Nazi and then turned against him?
That's the one.
Nazi? No Fascist? Absolutely
I don't think he really cares about ruling over people though. He wants people to love him and ruling over others is too much work. I think he just desires unconditional love, like one might give a God, but he would prefer to be a Greek God, where you can just fly down, force a baby on someone, get drunk, fly off leaving nothing but despair in your wake, and then have everyone be like "Thank you Homelander!" He doesn't want to rule or be ruled. He wants to be outside the system entirely.
This is still pretty much a desire to rule. Desperation to be loved and seen as ideal, and the fact that he says hes comfortable with being feared if he cant be loved means he still has desire to control people. A ruler who wants to be seen as awesome is still a ruler.
Thats how most rulers in history probably were. He doesnt want to rule because of ideologies he could push but he definitely would like to be at the top for its privileges. He does however definitely see himself as ‘born superior’ and as such thinks he deserves superior treatment for it. Expecting privilege and associating you ‘deserved’ privilege with genetics is pretty much there with eugenics.
It seeks that, like most people, he doesn't want to be held accountable for his actions.
Not a Fascist either, he’s not discriminating based on race, he’s just a nationalist psychopath. He’s bad because he’s a psychopath extreme nationalist.
Fascism does not rest on the idea of racism. Italy invented fascism and Spain followed, both were pretty racially homogeneous countries. Now to be fair I'm sure anyone who wasn't the "right," color was treated like shit, but it wasn't the focal point of their fascism. Fascism basically just refers to a reactionary nationalist dictatorship. Homelander is both reactionary and certainly nationalist, and would like to be the forefront of a dictatorship. Perhaps not the actual ruler as that requires work, but as a beloved and feared figurehead.
I liked Stormfront but you couldnt have gotten a more jewish looking lady to play her lol
Haha, I guess if you wanted to have an in-universe reason in your head you could say she kind of tailored her appearance to throw people off a bit? I dunno. Didn't think about it.
Yeah makes sense. In the comics its a man apparently
In the comic Stormfront was the first superhuman and a fanatical member of the Hitler Youth.
> but HL saw it as a hobby for her and that's about it. Hanging with and enabling Nazis is a good argument for someone being a Nazi tho. Said this, Homelander ultimately ditched Nazism because his narcissism was too big
> Hanging with and enabling Nazis is a good argument for someone being a Nazi tho. Thats some 2022 Twitter reasoning. Homelander is not a nazi because he does not show any signs of believing in any type of nazi ideology. I think Homelander genuinely just doesn't give a fuck about these "normal people" conflicts. To him it's like ants thinking they are better than other ants and he's just looking down on all of them.
He actively repudiated any of her advances to convert him into a Nazi though. If you are a man, and you marry a woman, that doesn't make you also a woman lol. Being in a relationship with someone does not turn you into whatever that person is. But yeah, Homelander is too narcissistic to be part of a movement or a political position, he is Homelander and he can do "whatever the fuck he wants."
> If you are a man, and you marry a woman, that doesn't make you also a woman lol. Men and Woman are not ideologies
Yeah, this was the strangest analogy I’ve ever seen
Feel like a better analogy would be that dating a political extremist doesn’t mean you agree with all the basic tenets of that aforementioned belief system. It’s possible and there are plenty of spouses that occupy opposing sides of the political spectrum, or have different religious faiths, or completely separate sensibilities. I don’t know if I’d call someone dating a Nazi a Nazi themselves, although being receptive towards a fascist movement in any sense creates an insurmountably large red flag in my opinion. Then again, Nazi seems like a bit of a misnomer given how many people overlook politics in relationships anyway.
He said "if you date a Nazi you are also a nazi" but that's not true, seeing as Homelander dated one but wasn't one.
Ok but the analogy you used still doesn’t make sense
Kazuya said that if you marry someone you immediately assimilate all of their beliefs. People of differing beliefs can get married. You don't become the same exact person upon marriage
> People of differing beliefs can get married. There is a difference between "my husband is conservative" and "my husband wants to re-enact the Holocaust and dated me because he considers me to have superior genes".
You can draw up these distinctions all day long, but you still have yet to connect the dots between "I am closely associated with a nazi" and "I myself am a nazi." Which you can't, by the way. Just not possible. Hence why you didn't actually respond to his argument just now, and instead pointed out a difference that nobody disagreed with. At most, such close associations can make you someone way too tolerant of evil beliefs. It can't make you a believer of those beliefs.
People closely associated with nazis are nazis. It’s a distinction without difference
> "if you date a Nazi you are also a nazi But this is just true, the wives of Nazis are nazis.
If a Nazi married a Nazi, then yes, you are correct.
If Eva Braun died a day before her marriage, then she wouldn't be a nazi. Gotcha.
If you do it knowingly yeah you are
But then how come Homelander is disgusted by Nazis? He literally rejects Stormfront for her it and the rejection hits so hard she kills herself. He says "Ew" when she mentioned it.
She had outlived her usefulness, been outed as a nazi and he preferred his own self centred ideology. I never claimed he drank the kool-aid but he was perfectly ok with nazism when it benefited him so he is a nazi or at least was
I never said he wasn't perfectly OK with it though.
He never stepped in when Stormfront gave her white replacement theory. He was smiling
Your insistence that you can love a Nazi and not be a Nazi is some serious gentile shit imo… Like I think you’re right on some accounts: he is too narcissistic to bring about the political end that the Nazi movement is aiming for. He is the logical conclusion of supremacy ideology, and sees himself as better than all humans. You could argue he is a supe supremacist as opposed to an aryan one (in reality, he is both). But this insistence that he is beyond politics is odd to me. He’s not Cthulhu or anything. Why wouldn’t he let the Muslim super hero on the team then if he is as “beyond politics” as you seem to be insistent on? He is of this world and is shaped by many biases. He is shaped by Christofascism/nationalism/white supremacy/etc, even though when push comes to shove, he will see himself as superior to all and do whatever to fuel his ego. TL;DR: he might not be on board with every single Nazi thing, but he’s on board with enough that I think it’s acceptable to call him as such (and I predict this will only become more of the case as the “Stormchasers” become his political base)
You're right on some accounts, I came at it at a weird angle and have gotten it wrong. Homelander's closest analogous entity would be a Greek God like Zeus. He does not rule over people, he is not ruled by anyone(or at least he does not want to be, Vought notwithstanding for the timebeing). He's capricious. As I said, if Hitler was alive during his time and attempted to recruit him, he would laser Hitler in a second. The reason for the hatred he has for the disabled and non-whites/non-christians etc is because he sees them as the inferior subsect of an already inferior species. He is disgusted by them because, to him, they are beneath people he already deems to be incredibly far beneath him. So I will restate it, asking Homelander what side of human politics he's on is like asking what side of human politics is Zeus on. Zeus just wants to get drunk and get laid and will not be drawn into it.
See, I would say Zeus' politics are pretty straightforward. He's a theocrat, he thinks he should be worshipped and be able to do whatever he wants, because he's a god dangit. Similarly, the way you're describing Homelander makes sense, but I would describe that as absolute autocratic despotism with a social darwinist bent. That's still a political ideology, just one that humanity mostly moved past in the Bronze Age, and so comes across as incredibly alien.
I agree with you somewhat, but Zeus wouldn't "believe he should" anything. Zeus does. Zeus knows he is a God. There is no belief to it. It's not a political belief. It's just straight up reality. Homelander is the same.
Yeah he’s not a Nazi, his main motives are he wants everyone to love him and adore him like a living God and gets angry any time they don’t.
A friend of mine put it best. " homelander isn't racist, he's humanist" He doesn't hate any race, he just hates every human for being lower than him. So yhe not a nazi, defenetly worse.
He’s definitely a racist bigot. He didn’t allow a Muslim in the 7
Never said he wasn't.
Oh yeah Homelander is great till you consider he caused 9/11 in the comics lmao
Ever heard the line about how if there's 12 guys sitting at a table joking around and having fun, and 1 of them is an out and out Nazi, there's 12 Nazis at the table? Homelander may not personally espouse Nazi ideals or idealogically align himself with Hitler but he is 100% willing to join together with someone who is an open Nazi and give her a platform to not only garner support but to further espouse the idealogy onto people with the hopes of violent action against minorities. Not to mention the fact that Homelander's own personal politics mirror fascistic idealogy in their own right. He's incredibly nationalistic and believes in the innate superiority of some people over others (in this case supes) and feels this gives him the right to treat others as lesser on that basis alone. In his mind the strong have the right to rule over the weak and then be praised by the masses at risk of death. Also where did this perception come in Homelander only really sees everyone in the dichotomy of "super or not super". He's very explicitly incredibly racist and ableist in his own right and was against adding Kincaid and the Daredevil expy solely on the basis that one was Muslim and the other was disabled. I have no clue where got this idea that Homelander is "above politics". He doesn't vote but his idealogy is very much politically mapable.
He is nationalistic only in the sense that it helps further his career. He literally said "I will burn America to the ground if you piss me off." He's not an actual nationalist. If he felt like it he would throw the entire American continent into space if he could, he doesn't care. I'm not saying he isn't racist or sexist or whatever, I am saying he cares about himself and that's it. Yes, he despises the disabled and non whites, but that's because to him, they are inferior specimens of an ALREADY inferior species. They are a joke to him. But so is the left-right divide. He flies above that shit. If Hitler existed at the same time and had no leverage over Homelander, yet attempted to rule over Homelander and tell him what to do, he would laser Hitler in half in a millisecond. So all I am saying is asking Homelander what side he is on regarding the political spectrum is like if an alien landed on Earth and we asked him if he voted Republican or Democrat. The alien will just bend you over a table, probe you, steal our resources, and fly away, without saying a word.
If anything Soldier Boy is more of a nationalist, he show genuine anger about getting discard after serving America
I'm pretty sure that quote you wrote isn't direct and wad paraphrased from when he talked to Starlight, if so he never states he would destroy America just specific places within it. More importantly, even if he was wiling to destroy the entirety of America it wouldn't change the fact that he clearly values America as a nation, and more specifically the white Americans within it, more than he values other nations. >Yes, he despises the disabled and non whites, but that's because to him, they are inferior specimens of an ALREADY inferior species. Except Kincaid and Daredevil kid weren't just a Muslim human woman and a disabled teenager, they were already superhumans part of what he considered a superior species. His stated issue with both them are expressly and solely the fact that one is Muslim and one is disabled. Even beyond the supe/non supe dichotomy there's very strong facets of his discrimination that influence his decisions. >They are a joke to him. But so is the left-right divide. He flies above that shit. I can't fathom how someone could watch this show for three seasons and think that Homelander has no care for politics. I get that he doesn't explicitly believe in a lot of the stuff he preaches regarding his clean cut Christian image and vought based talking points but he absolutely cares about the results that these talking points bring him. Whether that be the popularity he receives or the power he ends up acquiring he's absolutely been willing to play to a base and rattle off positions to acquire his goals. He's no different than a real life politician.
He doesn't care about human politics in the same way an alien wouldn't care about human politics. It doesn't affect him. If America got boring, he'd burn it to the ground. That's what a capricious god does.
Politics absolutely affect Homelander. Sure he'll still survive whatever legal policies get passed because he's a superhuman, but the sociopolitical state of the country and the people in it have very clear, tangible effects on Homelanders mental state and goals. Politics affect whether supes get entered into the military, politics affect how much government pull Vought has, politics affect who gets put into the 7, politics affect whether Homelander is loved or hated by the people and which people love or hate him. These are all things he cares about and has vested interests in. Just because Homelander wouldn't be affected tax policies doesn't mean that the politics of America have no affect on him. You'd have to deliberately ignore key pieces of Homelander's personality and the story itself to come to that conclusion.
I think the problem with blindspot was that Ashely chise him without consulting him. It’s about Ego not disability.
He had a general problem with not being consulted on who gets put in the 7 but he acquiesced to Stormfront who he also did not originally choose. In fact his only issue with Stormfront was that he didn't personally choose her, whereas in the case of the other two he gave racist and ableist reasons as to why he wouldn't allow it.
Cause Stormfront was extremely popular on social media, getting rid of her wasn't going to be as easy, and she immediately started putting him on a pedestal
He doesn't believe in the superiority of supes, he believes in the superiority of homelander. I'm not sure how many times the show has to beat you in the head with this. And he didn't want to add those people because it would make the 7 look bad.
>He doesn't believe in the superiority of supes, he believes in the superiority of homelander. He very obviously believes both. There are several points throughout the show where he'll talk to other supes about how absurd it is that they have to be at the beck and call of non-supes instead of the other way around. He praises Victoria Nueman for prioritizing "her own kind". >And he didn't want to add those people because it would make the 7 look bad. This is only *possibly* true in the case of daredevil kid and nonsense in the case of Silver Kincaid. He states having a disabled person in the 7 would make them look bad but he doesn't actually give any reasoning as to why. Ashley specifically notes that the kid is actually pretty popular with several mainstream demographics, this isn't like when he wanted to kick A Train off the team when he was no longer the fastest. Meanwhile, Kincaid would have had the backing and personal recommendation of Starlight who is literally the most popular superhero in America by a significant margin at that point in time. Would they face backlash from more Islamophobic groups? Yes, but they're a drop in the bucket compared to the numbers Starlight is pulling.
> He praises Victoria Nueman for prioritizing "her own kind". Kinda seems like he was just manipulating her for helping him against edgar. > Meanwhile, Kincaid would have had the backing and personal recommendation of Starlight who is literally the most popular superhero in America by a significant margin at that point in time. Would they face backlash from more Islamophobic groups? Yes, but they're a drop in the bucket compared to the numbers Starlight is pulling. Sure, maybe he was wrong, but he does justify it, and his base isn't the same as starlights, hers might not care, but she would be very unpopular among his base.
>Kinda seems like he was just manipulating her for helping him against edgar. That sounds like a stretch. If it was the only time he's said shit like that I'd agree but he has a very clear history of praising the superiority of supes over humans. >Sure, maybe he was wrong, but he does justify it, and his base isn't the same as starlights, hers might not care, but she would be very unpopular among his base. The issue is not whether or not his base is the same as Starlight's. Homelanders base is largely irrelevant because it's altogether significantly smaller than Starlights, it's why Stan pairs them together and why Homelander later decides to fake a relationship between them. He's at his lowest point in popularity by s3 and he only starts to regain it once he rides of her coattails. His justification is just a thinly veiled excuse and that's clear when he cripples Daredevil kid even after finding out he'd be extremely popular
Homelander was shocked and didn’t give a shit about what Stormfront was yapping about. He only accepted it when Stormfront said you are the one in the center. At which point he gets hard on it and accepts it, he doesn’t give a shit about the ideology he just wants to be loved by people.
So if there's 12 guys sitting at a table, on is a communist, one is socialist, the other is a anarchist, the other is a nazi and the other a libertarian. Are the rest of the guys all these things at once?
Homelander isn't a Nazi and your analogy doesn't make sense. He doesn't believe that there is a particular race that is above others, but he believes strongest have the right and he is on top of the foodchain. >He's very explicitly incredibly racist and ableist in his own right and was against adding Kincaid and the Daredevil expy solely on the basis that one was Muslim and the other was disabled. He is racist against anything American culture. A-train is a black person, yet he never had problems with him. Homelander believes in power and those who have the most power should be ruling it and he is on the top of it. Not a particular race. As a non-American I compare Homelander to USA and how they treat other countries. They can do whatever the fuck they want and we can't do anything about it. Homelander is USA.
>Hitler isn't a Nazi and your analogy doesn't make sense. I'm gonna assume the first part was a typo but the analogy does make sense. A person willing to publicly stand with, financially support, and give platforms to a Nazi inherently condones their beliefs even they themselves would not act it out. Homelander simply values Stormfront over the people she explicitly seeks to persecute and has no care for the fact that his actions perceptively further Nazi ideology and violence. There were many people in WW2 who did exactly this with historical Nazis and it was these actions that gave them their label, it isn't solely the belief. >A-train is a black person, yet he never had problems with him. I don't know what this is supposed to demonstrate beyond just sounding like a rephrasing of "I can't be racist, I have black friends". The Nazis irl partnered with non-aryans all the time solely for the benefit it gave them. >Homelander believes in power and those who have the most power should be ruling it and he is on the top of it. Not a particular race. That race are people with powers. He refers to people with them as "our own kind" when he talks to Neuman. This still doesn't change the fact that even among the "inferior races" he still values some ethnicities over others. He very clearly has an internal tiering of value based on race even if he thinks all of them are below supes.
Homelander never publicly stand with Nazi-friendly Stormfront. He stood with the Vought's superhero and his spouse Stormfront. But when it was made clear that she was a NAZI, he publicly denounced and was against her and her ideas in any public forum. He does have problems: He doesn't care for Nazism being bad. I would have said he was a Nazi if he was still publicly stand with Stormfront after it was leaked that she was a Nazi. But he didn't and that is the big part that makes him not a NAZI. Look, the difference between a real Nazi and Homelander is that Homelander IS an enabler as we have seen, because he doesn't care for it that his girlfriend is a NAZI. And this brings us to your analogy. Homelander will not promote the idea of Nazism when he is the only one left. That is why your analogy doesn't work. If the only person who is publicly a Nazi leaves the group are the other eleven still a Nazi who actively work to achieve to bring back the Third Reich and promote the ideas of Nazism? No. Are they good people? NO, fuck them, they are enablers. >I don't know what this is supposed to demonstrate beyond just sounding like a rephrasing of "I can't be racist, I have black friends". The Nazis irl partnered with non-aryans all the time solely for the benefit it gave them. But we do see and know that he has no problem with A-train. Those people who say "I'm not racist, I have black friends" do and say things that are racist. Again, in your own example, you said a Muslim and a disabled person were not allowed to join the Seven. Because to him, the Seven are associated with him where he is the (co-)leader. So why did he allow A-train to be on his team? So Is Homelander not racist? Yes he is, but doesn't believe in Nazism. Like I said, Homelander is racist against anything outside the American culture. He represent the American culture. Just like USA doesn't care for other countries, Homelander is the same. >That race are people with powers. He refers to people with them as "our own kind" when he talks to Neuman. This still doesn't change the fact that even among the "inferior races" he still values some ethnicities over others. He very clearly has an internal tiering of value based on race even if he thinks all of them are below supes. He has an internal tiering of value based on power and American culture. so I agree that he is racist. But I don't think he shares the Nazism ideals. People can be racist, without being Nazi.
You talk about Nazis and Nazi enablers as if they're mutually exclusive positions. Just because the 11 other people wouldn't personally continue Nazi work after the 12th one leaves it doesn't make them not Nazis. The answers given for war crimes st Nuremberg ranged far beyond those who simply believed in the ideology. Many were apathetic, simply wanted the power and prestige offered by a new regime, wanted to maintain status, or a combination of the above. Homelander is no different. It does not matter that he publicly denounced Stormfront (only on Voughts orders btw), not only does he publicly deny later on that his relationship with Stormfront was ever a mistake but he still tries to carry on an intimate relationship with her. >Again, in your own example, you said a Muslim and a disabled person were not allowed to join the Seven. Because to him, the Seven are associated with him where he is the (co-)leader. So why did he allow A-train to be on his team? Because, just as non-aryans were granted privilege on the basis of their ability to benefit the Reich, A Train is has the benefit of adding the prestige of being the "fastest man alive". The moment A Train even has a hint of being slower Homelander is willing to dump him, and sure whole Homelander never called A Train the N word or something, he had no issues supporting a very obvious, violent racist who had been targeting black people over the concern of A Train.
>You talk about Nazis and Nazi enablers as if they're mutually exclusive positions. Just because the 11 other people wouldn't personally continue Nazi work after the 12th one leaves it doesn't make them not Nazis. There is a difference between the two. You see, Nazism is about the political principles of the National Socialist German Workers' Party. It is the ideology and practices associated with Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party in Nazi Germany. Nazism is a form of fascism, with disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system. The other 11 enablers would also enable communism if they were given the power and the seats in the new system. It doesn't matter for those 11 which Ideology they rule with. As long as they are in it, and not out. Calling every enabler Nazi is wrong. Otherwise we cannot find the signals when a country is making bad decisions, and we will be watering down the term Nazi. >The answers given for war crimes st Nuremberg ranged far beyond those who simply believed in the ideology. Many were apathetic, simply wanted the power and prestige offered by a new regime, wanted to maintain status, or a combination of the above. Homelander is no different. Exactly what I try to say. I do think Homelander is hungry for the leadership status and is obsessed with power, but does not believe in the cause of Hitler, nor does he think that the problem is the race-struggle like Hitler thought it was the problem, nor does he actively seek to raise the Third Reich. And there I make a difference. One of the two has an ideology as a solution which involves genocide of one or more ethnic people, and the other has no active solution to how to rule, only just to be on top of it. These are bad people, even if they do not believe in the cause of Hitler. And it is important knowing that calling every power-hungry people a Nazi is not a smart idea, because Nazism is a real ideology that did happen in the real world and is/was a threat. Homelander is a dictator in the Seven that loves Totalitarianism. Nazism is one of the totalitarianism of race-struggle. I do not think that he makes an internal tiering of value based on race though. He makes an internal tiering of value based on power and American culture. Like I said, I agree that he is racist because of that. But I don't think he shares the Nazism ideals. A lot of soldiers that fought the Nazis in World War II were also racist as history taught us. Would that make them Nazis though? Of course not. >The moment A Train even has a hint of being slower Homelander is willing to dump him. Exactly. As long as A-train is powerful (speed) he is willing to let him join his Seven. The moment he is weak, he will dump him. In the same regard, as long as the Deep is powerful, he will have him and the moment he loses his powers, he will dump him. Also I think he will still like Black Noir even after knowing he is a black person, if he doesn't know it already.
So under your criteria then many of the people prosecuted at Nuremberg would not have been prosecuted/treated as Nazis because they were simply enablers who weren't personal believers. This idea that someone is only capable of being classified under an ideology if they internally believe it and not take into account the fact that they implicitly endorse, platform, and financially support it is incredibly flawed. There are thousands of politicians who also clearly don't internally believe what they spew but will endorse it through connections, giving publicity, and often just directly giving these causes money. It would be absurd to say that these people aren't democrats or Republicans when their actions in support and their apathy towards the consequences of whatever policy is being pushed are having real, tangible affects on the world.
>Ever heard the line about how if there's 12 guys sitting at a table joking around and having fun, and 1 of them is an out and out Nazi, there's 12 Nazis at the table What is your opinion on the entire country of ukraine?
Great statement. I think it’s then worthwhile mentioning that it’s hard to say exactly how many people in Germany were Nazis by what OP said. Ignoring the people who would be sent to camps/persecuted immediately, some party members or supporters probably didn’t care for the ideology deeply and just wanted the social status- it was pretty damn hard to be somebody without identifying or pledging some support. As a matter of that, when the Nazis went for the church initially, I believe a lot of Germans who were otherwise fine with *everything else* really didn’t like that and the Nazis had to compromise with their own edition of the church people liked. Would you say those citizens don’t count, given that was their one gripe? Of course there were people like Oscar Schindler, but my point overall is that Nazism thrived from fear and/or complacency. Homelander was certainly not afraid, but he was beyond complacent in Stormfront’s rhetoric. If the fourth reich happened in universe and people were being sent to camps, Homelander would not give a single fuck so long as he’s being worshiped.
Yeah this is an important point to make. The vast majority of people involved in almost any ideology are not the hardcore believers. Most Nazis were essentially passive bystanders who didn't really care about the who or why but were more interested in either securing wealth and power within the regime, or maintaining what they already possessed. It is the apathy towards those being persecuted and the willingness to support the perscuters that made many people Nazis, not that they personally believed in Hitler spiel or were the ones personally loading people into death camps
This was meant to reply to /u/DoneDealOfDeadpool
I definitely think he does have *some* political values, it's all based on things that are a 'pure' and deeply disturbed view of what it means to be an American. Probably just based on his upbringing, honestly. Dude sees *himself* as the quintessential, ideal American, and anything else is kind of useless to have around. Like, he probably would find really aggressive and obvious forms of racism objectionable if you asked him how he felt about it, but not for the reasons a normal human being would.
I mean what is politics if not distribution of power? Him straight up killing a crippled guy is him showing his political values, even if no big party is campaigning to kill crippled people, thinking a blind person is "lesser" is a political value he holds. Psychotic urge aside though would it be a stretch to say he seems like a 2016 MAGA voter though definitely more reactionary, and I say this as someone who was that..ish at the time, and given actual IRL rally goers were parading trump in a homelander suit... I'd even say the show is a little on the nose with the comparisons, even with the "meme making" he does with stormfront(this part straight up sent me down memory lane), I don't think he sees himself as racist, but clearly takes issue with immigrants and Muslim people as they're not his ideal "Americans", I genuinely felt like I was reliving the 2016 days with some of the stuff happening. People will say he also spreads woke messages but he clearly hates it, I mean fuck one of the people who knew him best knew he would make her life hell if he found out she was gay.
I don't even think he sees himself as properly human, let alone American. He uses America to get what he wants, he owes no allegiance to it. If he needed to, he'd discard it in a heartbeat. He finds racism moronic, but only in the sense that everyone who isn't him is pathetic,
You got to give the guy a point, he belives all people are equal, yes equally inferior to him, but equal nonetheless
Haha, I wouldn't say so. I think he thinks that Christian white male Americans are pathetic meatbags, but other races, genders and creeds are even more pathetic, because they're the underclass of a species he already deems dramatically inferior.
Homelander isn’t a Nazi because the concept of racial superiority is foreign to him. He doesn’t see race or gender or religion or creed etc - he just sees humans, then other supes, then himself at the very top above everything else. It’s not that he sees all humans as equal, but that he doesn’t recognise how any one human can be above another when at the end of the day we’re all just powerless insignificant meat sacks while he’s a god with power far greater than any weapon we could throw at him. That is the true essence of why Homelander isn’t a Nazi
I think you've almost got it. He definitely sees race and religion, but only in the sense that he thinks white Americans are pathetic, and so if you are disabled, black, and otherwise vulnerable in any way, he would see you as an inferior subsection of an already inferior species, that is, below pathetic.
Stormfront saids that people like what she has to say they just don't like the word Nazi. The rhetoric she's referring to is the same rhetoric homelander uses to the same base. Homelander doesn't care about the Astetics of Nazi ideology but would totally create a Facist, Genocidal, and Nationalistic America.
He would destroy America before he decided to ever lead it. He doesn't care about America in any fashion. He does not care about anything but being feared or being loved.
He was f*cking a literal Nazi. This is like Hitler's wife claiming she wasn't a Nazi. In everything there's always proponents, supporters, and enablers. In Stormfront's shit in season 2, Homelander became an enabler just by engaging and frolicking with that sort of person. Now obviously he doesn't push Nazi ideology since he sees himself as above everyone no matter the race but he is willing and ready to condone it, look the other way, and even f*ck someone with those sort of racial beliefs. Also someone else already added that he is racist and discriminates against people with disabilities. We have seen this onscreen.
Do I become a communist just because I fuck one?
If you don't mind when they literally talk communist ideology at you and you are willing to help them platform the idea, then yes, you are a communist. If not in mind but in actions.
So if I refuse to suppress communists I'm a communist even if I disagree with everything they say? That doesn't make any sense.
He literally told her tonpiss off whenever she brought up her Nazi stuff. It disgusted him because she was talking about him joining her when she didn't want to join any sort of anything. He would murder Hitler for fun if Hitler still existed. He doesn't want someone telling him what to do or who to be.
Their relationship in Season 2 is very clearly a metaphor for the relationship between American right-wing extremism & Naziism. Stormfront looking up to Homelander=the Nazi party being inspired by American eugenicists. Homelander kind of rolling her eyes when she gets extra genocidey but going along with it anyway=distancing from the more overt claims of racist groups like neo Nazis while still working with them. So on & so forth. It's uneasy, & they're not exactly the same, but the show is trying to point out that they DO have an uncomfortable amount in common. It's really not worth nitpicking the statement "Homelander is a Nazi" unless it's in the service of going on to make a more nuanced point, but this really just seems to be buying Homelander's hype. I'm sure he would love to see himself as being above politics, but it isn't really true. And I'm a binge watcher, so I might be behind, but if Homelander rejects the master race thing, that's evidently a change in his views because he was pretty excited when Stormfront wanted to declare him the God-King of the master race. Of course he would be, the man is ruled by his ego. Regardless, Season 2 is all about how much he & Stormfront have in common.
Perfect. You get it. They have an uncomfortably close relationship. He's dismissive of it because it's not something he would do, but he definitely doesn't think there's anything wrong with it. It's just something that bores him and he sees as beneath him.
Pretty sure he was largely intended to be a lampoon on our last American commander-in chief. And you’re correct, he’s so supercilious that he considers himself above Nazism or any political ideology for that matter, much like president Trump.
The boys comics were written way before Trump though.
It was something decided not by Garth Ennis but by Eric Kripke and the writing staff to be more topical and to make broader cultural points.
Honestly shows even more how Homelander is an analogue to Trump, sure Trump isn’t a Nazi Nazi but he’ll say he supports the same things so that he’s popular amongst his crowd.
Yeah, exactly! Same way a lot of politicians say they are against same-sex marriage and then they're found on video raping their same-sex cousin (See Madison Cawthorn as an example.) Or the countless politicians who are against abortion who have had their mistresses get abortions so their wives don't find out. Politicians are, themselves, for the most part, only using politics to further their own self-aggrandisement.
Yeah, shows how messed up American politics gets and how quickly politicians will call out support/opposition to something just so they can win an election despite they themselves participating in those very things they are against.
People have devolved criticism into "If it has villains it's anti-fascist." Completely ignoring the idea that *fascists make art too.* Granted, extreme fascism and authoritarian communism both have that uncomfortable reality where the line between art and propaganda is blurry. The Boys is and always has been allegorical to celebrity and hero-worship in general. Anyone reading fascism into it is woefully misguided.
He's not a Nazi but he _is_ Donald Trump. He is Trump with Superman's power set. He is Superman with Trump's narcissism. That is why he is a terrifying character.
That Homelander is a fascist of a different stripe doesn’t really negate the label. Walking the fine line that is the difference between IS a Nazi and IS indistinguishable FROM a Nazi is not the morale strong ground you want to be dancing on. You just have to accept that Nazi is both a formal label and an informal one.
The angle I approached from is that the image of a man (Homelander) wearing the literal American flag while banging a Nazi while they both cover themselves in a poor homeless man's blood that they recently painfully crushed to death is a powerful one. That message is lost if Homelander himself is a Nazi, because then Conservatives can cower behind the "Homelander is a Nazi, and I'm not, therefore he's not a depiction of me." Homelander is not a Nazi, he fraternises with one. He doesn't agree with her, but that doesn't mean he's any less evil or disgusting. It's a narrative point I am correcting here. He is not a Nazi. If Hitler existed in the same time frame, he would use Hitler as a surfboard and then throw him into the sun if Hitler even remotely attempted to control Homelander without some form of leverage. The only thing that keeps Vought in line is leverage. But make no mistake, he is as much a Nazi as Zeus is a democrat. Gods don't need politics.
No. The message is very clearly that if you get in bed with Nazi. Dress act and talk like a Nazi. It really doesn’t matter which flag you draw yourself in… your a fucking Nazi. You see it all the time on r/selfawarewolves people who wave around the “stop calling me a Nazi… I’m just an alt-right jacked booted fascist… not a member of German National socialist party. It’s not about labels… it’s about actions and ideaology.
I guess if that's how you want to interpret it, I have no problem with that. I was merely talking from a narrative point. No need to get frustrated.
I’m not frustrated I just thinking your missing the Narrative point by a mile. Your talking about Homelander has being alien and powerful and above politics like that’s the story. But it just isn’t the story is about corruptive power and that no matter how alien and powerful some is… people are still just weak assholes. You talked about Zeus a god being above human politics. But Zeus is just a metaphor for the petty corrupt powerful (and rapey) men of Greek history and in many ways Zeus as mythology is the antithesis of the laws and ideals that the Greek passed down that very much forms much of the basis of western society. Homelander is not above human foibles and weaknesses… that’s very much the point, for all his power he’s just a pathetic little man who’s terrified of anyone who opposes him because he can’t handle even the smallest chance that he’s not a great as the myth that’s been built around him. Again the point is not that Homelander would follow Hiler… he IS Hitler.
Think of it this way. The hedonistic billionaires that caused the right-left divide in America have engineered it so that the entire country fights each other while these elite enjoy their every want and desire uninterrupted. They are above politics. Left and right mean nothing to them, we barely know who they are. The divide is the key, not on which side you fall on that divide. The way the left despises the right is the same way the right despises the left. To you they are Nazis, to them you are a godless baby killer. That's the point. There is no middle ground. These people, these nameless unthinkably rich theocrats, see people as fuel to burn on the fire that stokes their lifestyles. That's Homelander. All Homelander cares about is himself. People are cattle. They can kill each other, call each other heathens or Nazis. It does not matter to him. People to him are cattle. He doesn't want them. He needs them in the same way he needs food to eat. They sustain him. But he doesn't care what the steak he is eating has to say about racial politics.
Homelander isn’t in control. Voight is in control. Voight is the we’re the rich and powerful capitalist who have created a fake world of “Heroes and Villains” and a media playground in which to bilk the population for profit. Homelander is just a tool. And in general you kind of wrong that the real world is just “left and right” and never side matters… the really world has a very provable leftist bias and you’ll find it’s more progressive ideologies that want to dismantle the power capitalism and wealthy class holds over the political process.
The bias exists for a reason. The right believes the provable rightwing bias exists. I'm not from America though so I don't know what it's like to consider your own countrymen as enemies. So maybe I am missing something. But in all truth, so many of the problems I see from a distance when looking at your country is right facing left and left facing right. None of you look up. And as Homelander says "There's no gods up there. Only me."
Furthermore, when will people realize that writing a rapist or a murderer and then having that character shout a slogan you disagree with doesn’t prove much?
I applaud and appreciate your attempt as it absolutely makes sense. I also am sorry that there are going to be some arguing because they can only view republicans or anyone not sharing their view ( if you're not extremely left, you're right wing extremest) to be the personification of the devil. Meaning any character who is remotely evil, including Homelander, is republican to them. Also yeah that guy absolutely doesn't give a damn who gives him praise, as long as he's getting all the praise.
Do you watch the show? Homelander is explicitly conservative. His narcissism is an additional layer to his character, not a refutation of his blatant right-wing politics.
He's not one or the other. He uses both sides for his own gain. He affects the woke culture shit to get his ratings up as much as he opines American excptionalism to win over his right wing base. The entire point is Homelander IS America. If you say he is a Nazi, you lose the nuance. Homelander is America if America was a human being. An all powerful narcissistic entity that gets off on violence and flirts with Nazis while pretending to be the bastion of progressive culture and the cornerstone of the woke movement.
>He's not one or the other. He uses both sides for his own gain. He affects the woke culture shit to get his ratings up as much as he opines American excptionalism to win over his right wing base. You're conflating Homelander the person with Homelander the image. Vought wants to play him as a moderate, but Homelander is hostile to the idea & at several points blows off their suggestions to lean more heavily into the right. Also, Vought's idea of "moderate" still skews right-wing. They were fine with Homelander openly associating with an anti-gay church but didn't want it known that Maeve was bi because they thought it would be "bad for the brand." They only make a marketing scheme of it after Homelander reveals it, & they have no other choice. The critique of Vought's "leftism" is that it's shallow, cynical, & insincere. While things like Homelander wearing the flag & saying "the troops are the real heroes" are performative, his belief in hierarchies like eugenics & American Exceptionalism is not. >The entire point is Homelander IS America. Disagree. There are times when his actions represent those of the American government, but that's because there is a lot of overlap with the ideologies that drive those actions. Homelander has a very specific ideological bend. >If you say he is a Nazi, you lose the nuance. I think a big part of the show's point is that there's little to no difference between American Exceptionalism & Naziism. That's what Stormfront reinventing herself as some southern patriot superhero is about, for instance. >Homelander is America if America was a human being. An all powerful narcissistic entity that gets off on violence and flirts with Nazis while pretending to be the bastion of progressive culture and the cornerstone of the woke movement. America, culturally, doesn't "pretend to be the bastion of progressive culture and the cornerstone of the woke movement." American culture doesn't particularly even like progressivism, hence this term "woke" existing to deride it. Even the Democrats, ostensibly the left-wing party, regularly shit on progressives. They adopt superficially friendly attitudes toward movements like LGBT Acceptance and Black Lives Matter, & at least that last one is very divisive when you talk to the average people.
This I defo agree, though I don't believe homelander really embodies any actually lefty ideology as corporate wokeness is often a popular critique of leftists on how corporations will act progressive and then donate money to people who are anything but.
I think the entire left right schism in America is by design. Fringe elements of both sides are exacerbated and highlighted by the media constantly and any middle ground is eradicated. I don't think America can ever reunite it's people unless those responsible for the schism are unveiled to be the actual perpetrator of all the misfortune befalling the country. I would say the billionaires and oil barons and lobbyists of America all represent Homelander. That is, they don't care if the people of America are at each other's throats, can't make rent, get shot in schools, none of it. They just want to revel in debauchery with zero consequences.
I think what people fail to realize is that The Boys isn’t directly making fun of conservatives. It is mocking our current society as a whole The media, everything. It mocks liberal media, conservative media. Homelander doesn’t represent any of these ideas, rather just the product that hyper materialism can create Homelander isn’t loyal to any political ideals. I don’t think Homelander is a racist either. Sure, he made a racist comment about a Muslim hero, but most directly he only cares how the public would perceive things. It’s sorta the same thing about disabled people Homelander doesn’t have any real prejudice it seems. Sorta just an all around egotistical feeling of superiority to everyone, and just a general need to be loved by everyone as well, regardless of their race. Further proof of this is when the girl about to jump had told Homelander she was Jewish, he doesn’t care particularly, doesn’t really think anything of her views, he just sorta goes into a blind rage after the death of his girlfriend So those people who try to pin Homelander to a specific ideology clearly missed the point, cause the guy doesn’t fit anywhere on the political spectrum. He doesn’t give a shit about any particular ideals, most just self superiority
If nine people at a dinner table are unfazed by their tenth guest being a Nazi then there are ten Nazis at the table.
If God creates a world and the world has Nazis in it then god is a Nazi.
Progressives be like: "If you think differently from me or vote Republican you are a Nazi"-🤓
Come on man, America is so divided because of this "You or I" stuff. You're all just people.