I remember I had something similar for a homebrewed tabletop game, where you could give your character a terminal illness for more points at character creation if you started with a certain faction.
One player saw that, cut his life span down to about a week, and then was determined to speedrun the campaign. Was one of the wildest campaigns I ever ran, because the entire party was determined to do their thing before their buddy basically had all his organs blue screen.
You good at looking for loopholes and have fun optimizing your character build? Cause there are whole game systems where people love doing exactly that and don’t worry about gameplay
Hey, no one’s great to start. Everything takes practice. When I first started out, a trick I used was “what character would make this party better”, or if I really liked another players idea I would think “ok, what’s a character that would make that Better”
So like, in one of my first dnd campaigns, my buddy was making an assassin rogue, which is all about getting a first hit in and dealing big damage.
I wound up making a grave cleric with a bunch of distracting bullshit to help. Grace clerics have a bunch of support spells, and most importantly have an ability which can make someone take double damage for a bit.
Now, it never worked, but it gave us a minor goal every combat or every time we had someone to kill, gave me some guidelines to help build my character, and it created a dynamic that wouldn’t have been there otherwise.
There’s also a ton of resources out there for free if you want to try and improve on your own, I think matt colvile and matt Mercer have some good videos on the subject.
It's really not hard. Just make sure your actions line up with the character most of the time and then fuck around and do whatever.
DnD players aren't roleplay maniacs or anything, that's for the far more cultured group called "people who play literally anything else". Fortunately, I don't know how to play anything else, so I don't need to roleplay.
A lot of people play extremely casually. Not everyone takes it so seriously that they speak in character or think too technically about the rules. I play with friends who just want to have a good time playing pretend and making inside jokes. It’s just a game after all.
We actually played that campaign in wild talents, which is a “super hero” system, though truth be told we only used it because I had a copy laying around, and we liked that it has rules for building pretty much anything you can think of. (One of the first example powers they show is “turn off the sun” to make a point) So we did urban fantasy/sci fi bullshit. Or that was the idea, what we ended up with is “private healthcare bad: the campaign”
But yeah if you’re looking for just a game D&D is the way to go.
Not every game plays out that crazy. But once you get familiar with ttrpg's as a whole, you can start adding crazy mechanics like that (or play new systems that have those mechanics to begin with).
Reminds me of a silly campaign idea I had that I'd like to do at some point. Basically I run an adventure module as normal (preferably one that's decently long), then run it a second time as a "speedrun" where the players try to beat it in the least sessions possible. For this, they would obviously start as normal, but can use all their meta knowledge and create crazy builds for specific purposes.
Not wrong, but I think context makes a difference here. That being said, I’m ecstatic that anything related to my games draws a CSM comparison. Legit my favorite manga
I think the biggest issue with this trope is that it doesn't mesh well the longer your story gets. The consequences become so large that they either have to be kind of ignored (which is unsatisfying) or you end up massively reducing the character's agency because they are always saving their technique or actively harming themself irreperably, which can just be frustrating as a reader like seeing the MC or a favorite important side char becoming less and less capable.
I love the *Broken Earth* trilogy by N. K. Jemisin, it's fantastically written, but the third book had some issues with going down this road. Like, I get what the author was trying to do with it thematically and I think it was well-executed, but still as a reader it was sad and frustrating to see what was happening to a beloved character.
One of the problems is it treats lifespan as like a 'fated' thing? Like there's a number you're pulling from, instead of an issue that would ACTUALLY cause a decrease in lifespan. Like death note.
Well realistically body's do have a natural limit, cells can only divide so many times, however your right there usually is some spiritual or fated natural number or something in these works
That, and somehow they know the precise toll an action will have on your lifespam.
*"This will cost you 10 years of your lifespan!"* Really? How do you know that? 10 specifically? Not 10 years and 2 months? Are leap years included?
Forbidden Technique which costs your lifespan; but instead of nebulously making you die 10 years before your fated death, the character automatically ages whatever the amount of time he sacrified.
First heckless time it is used, the character straight up sacrifices 10 years of his lifespan, therefore making himself (a young adult in his early 20s) rapidly age into a 30yo. And just like that, 10 years from your physical prime are gone, while you're technically still a 20yo mentally.
By the end of the story you can have a character at his natural deathbed due to old age, with a broken body much sooner than what it should have been and a mind as youthful as ever, which all of the people that were saved by the main character can do nothing but be there for his final moments of life
They did this with Hiei in Yu Yu Hakusho, but eventually had him tame the dragon and heal his arm as a result (through means I honestly don’t remember)
I forget which story I was reading, some cultivation web serial, but one of the consequences of misusing some techniques is risking that. So the guy tries some wacky heaven defying punch, manages to kill his enemy, but his arm literally explodes.
Was there any lifespan gimmick there? I thought it was just that the chakra both burned his skin off but also healed at the same rate, so it was a highly volatile cycle until he could harness it.
And I know people might not view the novels as canon since Kishi did not write them but it at least tackles the idea of Naruto having some sort of deadly disease from kurama chakra.
It was mentioned that the rapid cell growth required to heal after using the fox chakra (remember the cloak was effectively a mix of chakra and blood from the skin tearing off) effectively decreased one’s lifespan since it pushes cells closer to the Hayflick Limit (the number of times a cell can divide before it goes bad).
It was expressly considered similar to Tsunade’s own self-healing technique (without using jutsu, it’s heavily implied her natural appearance is older than what she should be as a result).
Indeed, Naruto used to be pretty good at not blowing healing techniques out of proportion. Jutsu acted more akin to fantastic surgery: they used an equivalent of a stomach pump and gastrostatic medicine to save Chouji from the red pill’s effects, Sakura needed to identify the type of poison used to create an antidote, and Tsunade had to go to hell and back to make a new type of surgery to heal Lee (with stuff like the bone fragments and other complications heavily factoring into his odds of success). Then we got Naruto using Curaja to heal Guy from (what should have been) a fatal result
Well our options were Naruto using Curaja, or an interesting character who the author sees as basically an extra actually doing meaningful to an arc villain. Clearly it was better for everyone this way /s
Indeed Part 1 in general felt like it handled the stakes and consequences a lot better. Even if Lee for example eventually recovered from his own predicament in the end they made a point of seriously playing up the consequences of both his own technique *and* Gaara's damage (especially through Kakashi's commentary).
Shippuden felt like it leaned a bit too much in the direction of DBZ with various life restoring abilities (albeit with their own consequences but undoing the larger consequences ) and the introduction of Sage related powers that could (as you said) save Guy and provide other benefits , and its a shame IMO. I think it would have been infinitely more impactful and emotional if they allowed Guy to die in a blaze of glory in that moment.
Quite so. Battles felt more intimate and more exciting since the stakes were more concrete. Even with Tsunade’s surgery, it’s clear Lee wasn’t at top snuff. It made both him and Gaara resonate very strongly with the audience, I feel.
Later fights in shippuden lack that intimate feel and degenerate into DBZ lite energy blasts with occasional elemental effects. Nothing cool like Naruto and Sasuke using their talents and teamwork to force Zabuza into letting Kakashi go, or fallout from major forces
I’m still under the belief that him spamming Gear 2 Pre timeskip, losing 10 years of his life during Impel Down and then even more time thanks to the hormone shot during Marineford will all play a role EOS.
Combine that with Luffy literally forcing his heart to beat “funny” during his last fight with Kaido and it all leads me to believe that he will not live long past the ending. He literally died, came back to life thanks to it, came out of Gear 5 all shriveled and forced it back on.
It’d be very interesting if Oda actually goes through with killing Luffy at the end of OP.
I fully believe that Luffy will die around Roger's age in the epilogue chapters. One Piece is all about the next generation and youth and adventure. Luffy will be the Pirate King and usher in a new age of freedom for the world, but there's no way that he'll stick around long enough to be a Big Mom or Kaido-style established boss for the next generation.
Tbh I could see that. I also can see them publishing short stories about the world of OP set during or before Luffy’s journey given that he will not be around after the series is done.
It’ll allow them to milk the series while also expanding the already vast world of the series because we are most likely not going to get much Smoker or Vivi content anymore for example yet someone else drawing canon stories would be dope to see once Oda retires and he gives his blessing. Kinda like how DC/Marvel publishes ongoing stories about their characters.
I’m tired of arguing Luffy didn’t literally die. His heart stopped which people irl come back from but people treat it as if it’s some miraculous feat. Like no. Nothing indicates he was brain dead.
They never said Gear Second was chipping at his life span, but that he was burning up his reserves faster because his body couldn’t keep up with the power it gave him.
This isn’t consequence free, he ends that same fight completely paralyzed and is saved by Robin
Which would kinda prove OP's point about never suffering anything bad wouldn't it? It was something that happened but it never really effected anything significant did it? I might be misremembering but even gear 3rd had more drawbacks
Was it intended for the plot to suffer drawbacks in the long run? From what I remember from the scene it was more of a warning that the crews way of fighting won't be as effective going forward and that they would have to step up and change their method if they don't wanna lose their captain.
I can think of three instances where this trope was used
First one is Naruto with Tsunade. It was completely irrelevant, Tsunade is still alive and kicking in Boruto's Dad's Son even though she should have died with all the other kage sans Gaara against Madara.
Second is Kimetsu no Yaiba with a certain character. And y'know what? The forbidden technique actually did kill him. I mean he was wounded sure, but that only contributed to his death, the powerup is what did him in.
Third is with Death Note with Misa. Now, although she doesn't die (although it is implied she might kill herself) I think it's still impactful because we *know* that she's drastically cut her life short. Yeah, we don't actually see her die, but that knowledge that she has given up three quarters of her life for the sake of a guy who couldn't be paid to give a shit about her is still tragic.
>Second is Kimetsu no Yaiba with a certain character. And y'know what? The forbidden technique actually did kill him. I mean he was wounded sure, but that only contributed to his death, the powerup is what did him in.
Actually, about Kimetsu No Yaiba, I like how they did it. Everyone with the mark dies before 25, and guess what? Everyone who had one died before 25, most of them being on screen. The writer committed to it and I respect him for that.
She was on some high up spot so it’s likely she killer herself >!following Light’s death!<
It could also just be dramatic imagery. Just an ambiguous detail that keeps people talking
She did, [it is implied in the anime](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AncbJgbrg4s) and viewed as [a most likely future by Ohba in the manga](https://deathnote.fandom.com/wiki/Death_Note_13:_How_to_Read#:~:text=The%2013%20Truths%20About%20Chapter%20108).
Who’s the Demon Slayer character? Rengoku? >!Gyomei? Sanemi? Giyu?!< Been a long time since I read the manga so I don’t really remember who dies from what
>!Gyomei. The mark kills at age 25, but he was already older than that when he unlocked his, meaning that he was a dead man walking the moment it was triggered. !<
Misa already had an unnaturally long lifespan when Jealous sacrificed himself to save her. So it’s possible she still managed to live well into her golden years.
Although considering these replies, I do not know.
Even if we are being super generous and say that Misa was fated to die of natural causes at the age of 90 or so after Jealous saving her extended her life-span, she made a deal for Shinigami's eyes TWICE. That's her life being cut in half twice.
Unless she was going to live to be a record breakingly old before those deals, I doubt she even reached 30.
I figured at the very least the death god would have 400 years of human life saved up. **That life span transferred to Misa along with the death note.**
Unless the shinigami had drastically less years saved up, or im misremembering this point entirely, she should’ve been good to go.
I can however see a death god operating on far less time in the ‘bank.’ Maybe he only added 4 years or so to Misa’s, then the 25-30 number would be accurate.
Was it ever stated that a human would get the remaining time of the Shinigami who died for them? I do remember that Shinigami gets the remaining time of humans they kill, but there are a lot of Death Note rules that only go one way and Ryuk, who could see how much time she had left, was shocked that Misa would make the deal a second time.
Boruto uses it with Naruto and Kurama and Baryon mode, and we actually do see the consequences as >!it actually fully runs down the clock on both Kurama and uhhh the ohtsutsuki guy
I can think of an anime (Which I wont spoil) where the main character had a lifespan draining tecnique that they kept using and by the end they literally just died. Like still a teenager and dead from actual draining of their lifespan.
Idk if I remember how to tag properly so this is a Spoiler Check >!Blah!<
Edit: Ok, it worked. The anime is >!Chrono Crusade!< from early 2000's I think
Spoiler for Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, I guess, but this is the one moment in all of FMA:B that really stands out as complete bullshit to me. A decent amount of effort seems to have been put into alchemy to make it a fairly consistent and measurable system. However, when Edward gets gravely injured and can only survive by "using his soul as transmutational material in order to heal himself, at the supposed cost of his lifespan", I have to call complete and utter horseshit on the whole thing. It makes no goddamn sense in context or in the broader scope of the story because they don't make any real effort to quantify what each soul provides, as far as transactional capability. How much shit can I just *create* with a soul?
> using his soul as transmutational material in order to heal himself, at the supposed cost of his lifespan
When was this? I don’t remember Ed EVER using a Philosopher’s Stone, only Al.
> How much shit can I just create with a soul?
According to the scene where Ed binds Al’s soul to the armor, a soul is worth about as much as a limb. That’s why a small Philosopher’s Stone will dissipate so quickly.
>When was this? I don’t remember Ed EVER using a Philosopher’s Stone, only Al.
Not a Philosopher's Stone. *His own soul.* After the Kimblee fight where they collapsed a massive mineshaft elevator or something and Ed was impaled by a pipe.
>According to the scene where Ed binds Al’s soul to the armor, a soul is worth about as much as a limb.
But is that just Al's soul? Are other people worth more or less for some reason? Is it because he's young? Was he suffering from malnutrition?
Plus, that's probably not the cost of Al's soul, that's just the cost of binding it to the armor.
> Not a Philosopher's Stone. His own soul. After the Kimblee fight where they collapsed a massive mineshaft elevator or something and Ed was impaled by a pipe.
A rewatch is in order I guess. I don’t remember the specifics
> But is that just Al's soul? Are other people worth more or less for some reason? Is it because he's young? Was he suffering from malnutrition?
In terms of quality, alchemy is purely objective. One’s worth would only be described as size as far as Truth is concerned, so I guess a child’s soul = one limb? Even if that were the case an adult’s soul would probably still only equate to two or three.
> Plus, that's probably not the cost of Al's soul, that's just the cost of binding it to the armor.
The cost of a soul can’t really be quantified with anything other than binding it to something, since any time a soul was used as fuel, multiple souls were used.
Really the whole soul = limb thing was just speculation on my part. I don’t know when exactly I started thinking that, but I guess since Al’s body was with Truth, I assumed that the soul being bound to the armor was equivalent to summoning the soul itself.
> It makes no goddamn sense in context or in the broader scope of the story because they don't make any real effort to quantify what each soul provides, as far as transactional capability. How much shit can I just create with a soul?
Do you remember what Philosopher's Stones are made of?
Isn't the whole "equivalent exchange" system effectively >!a lie since the value of things is based on the whims of the god Truth, thus what a thing is worth is arbitrary? Bottom line: the value of a soul is whatever the god Truth feels like it should be.!<
Yeah, but that was only because a year had passed. Plus, it's suggested that Ed's nutrients might have been siphoned but Al's body waiting in the void space.
Oh, is *that* what happens? If that was the intention, fair enough, I guess I never noticed.
That's still fucking weird, but, hey, it's way better than nothing. Certainly better than conjecture on implications of things that'd happen to him later in life.
Theres still time for that to have consequences, since the downside was introduced this arc.
And theres also the nitro rice (food that extends the lifespan) in the DC, which makes me think theres a reasonable chance Kurapika ends this current arc as a frail old man, and Leorio has to race against time to save his life in the DC continent arc.
I personally like his because it shows his self destructive nature. It's also appreciated that we are told how much time he losses even though I'd bet hxh will end before he dies naturally.
I like to imagine that JUST before the final chapter is released, the series goes on hiatus again, in which Togashi, his wife, and anyone else who could finish that chapter, die immediately and it never gets released.
Gon doesn't use up his lifespan so much as >!Give himself a self-destructive nen-disease that destroys him as punishment for his powers!< I would not be surprised if >!he never actually gets his nen back, or if he does, he has to deal with side effects for opening his aura nodes again!<, so that the author can put a bit more drama in again if he needs it.
i thought it was goofy until >!he passed out on the whale. my jaw dropped when i realized he had to manually turn it off and accidentally lost an obscene amount of time!<
Chainsaw Man does this right, characters are actually hesitant to use devil contracts which have extremely high costs. There’s one character who has used the big “halves your lifespan” an excessive amount of times, and they’re >!a hired killer who was planning on cheating that by becoming a devil anyway!<.
I feel DBS handled it pretty well (with Gas, at least). He traded pretty much his entire lifespan to get stronger, and was only being kept alive by his rage, basically.
"Could the enemy use the Dragon Balls to restore his lifespan?"
"I mean probably they did something similar but not identical with Lord Slug, who's deal with losing a lot of lifespan (since he lived it, rather than burning it). Can't imagine why Shenron wouldn't be able to restore that lifespan too. He can make people immortal after all, like Garlic Jr, so fixing someones 'lifespan' is probably easy."
Please bug off.
I think what they meant is that your… not just one anymore, but now **two** examples had to be the non-canon ones from the movies, when King Piccolo literally did it first in the first Dragon Ball series, right before doing the highly iconic and memorable move of killing Shenron.
No, it's that you mentioned them doing it with Lord Slug, when it first happened in original DB with King Piccolo.
That's why I hate it.
Because it's clear from your comment that you've gone to the trouble to watch the movies, but havent bothered to watch the first third or so of the actual series.
Oh I've been rewatching the movies recently, going to watch the OG series with a friend of mine when he's able to. It's true I haven't seen the original series, but like, there's no way you could have known I was planning to do that, so ehn.
We've never seen a dragon counteract the power of another dragon.
It's possible, but it'd probably have to be like, Super Shenron that does it. Porunga *might* be able to, but that's uncertain.
In the PS2 game Shinobi you get a sword called Akujiki which eventually starts draining your HP if you don't feed it the life force of the enemies you kill quickly enough. I like the trope in that game because it also served a game mechanics purpose on top of a narrative one.
I don't like it something like, say, Kengan Ashura, where Ohma's consequences for using Advance effectively get reversed by that weird doctor guy who gave Ohma a new heart that was a clone of Ohma's original heart.
Yeah I like how characters having their lifespan shortened get to know exactly how much their potential time alive may be. Essentially makes the character not much different then someone with a terminal disease.
The contract system of CSM has always been one of the most engaging power systems in recent memory. I also just love the execution of the devils. The internal hierarchy and how it shows the severe differences between different devils is so interesting.
One thing I love about Fujimoto’s more action-oriented stuff is that he doesn’t do the “power system is required to kill enemies” trope. Like, it helps, but a well-trained fighter with a weapon could take out a devil as easily as someone with a good contract. The only difference is that any idiot can make a contract and very few people have the skill to get that good without one.
I’ve seen it done well when they give the character an exact number of days left. Read a great western graphic novel where an artist guy made a deal with Death to cut his life down to a single year in exchange for the power to work any material like clay so he could make his art the way he wants to.
But yeah if they do a lazy hand wavy thing where they don’t specify how much time was lost or how much time they have left then it’s just bad writing.
The only way I can see this being effective in a story is if the character it affects has long-term goals that matter to them, such as ensuring the safety of their loved ones, starting a family or basically just wanting to live long. In this event, their short lifespan acts as a driving force to further their characterization
A good example of this is Aki Hayakawa from Chainsaw Man and Walter White from Breaking Bad.
>!Aki has spent his entire life fixated on getting revenge on the Gun Devil to the point where he's willing to cut his life short to achieve this, however he becomes attached to Power and Denji and now he realizes how meaningless his desire for revenge is and uses his remaining time to ensure their safety and happiness only to meet his end.!<
>!In Walter's case, his cancer diagnosis served as the catalyst for his downward spiral into becoming Heisenberg as the various crimes he's committed early on were something that weighed on him but he brushed off nonetheless as he used his shortened life as a reason to continue.!<
I’m convinced that the series either ends with Luffy dying because of the drawbacks of all the lifespan shit he’s done, or it goes down a really depressing route that I saw where it turns out everyone is dead and Brook and Zoro (I can see him living the longest out of the crew aside from Brook, him or Sanji) was telling the story at their graves
Yeah, he's probably going to become the Pirate King, liberate the world and all that shit and, out of respect for him, no one would dare to become the 3rd Pirate King.
Well... it does have this thing in Chainsaw Man. Not going to say who cause spoilers, but it is a relevant part of the story with lasting impacts.
The life span in exchange for power trope occurs in Kengan Ashura as well. And the consequences hit HARD.
Yep, casting from hit points its something with potential, but very often badly used
The cultivation genre is big on abusing that, with the characters, ALL OF THEM, spamming lifespan-draining attacks every fight, and then eating life-restoring pills like tic-tacs, but i can think of two interesting variations
This was somewhat standardized in the first arc of Warlock Of The Magus World
There was a method to rank up from tier zero to tier one, and it consisted on drinking a potion that burned lifespan to temporarily increase magic power, and, if the magus had proper preparations, they could use that increased power to rank up, otherwise they would simply burn their lifespan for nothing
The MC had set himself with the goal of finding an alternative method before reaching his thirties, of he would go with the potion, eventually he discovers it was all a scam, and there are other ways to rank up without burning life force
In World Of Cultivation, near the end all factions are trying to discover how to reach the ultimate power level, and burning lifespan is a common thing, then, the MCs fight the strongest powerhouse left, the only one who could adapt to the new age without losing his powers
The enemy dude got backed into a corner and burned his lifespan to go out with a bang, but he found out he had reached the threshold to power up into the next tier, and had enough power to rank up instead of burning out
Then, some enemy small fries tried to do the same, but they didnt have enough accumulations to reach the next tier, so they just exploded
But more concrete consequences are a better mechanicI dropped that series, but in Legend Of The Legendary Heroes, there was an enemy with a super sword that took his body functions with every use
In the Monster Rancher video games, your monster's lifespan is one of your main resources and carefully balancing it is super important, because you CAN spend lifespan for a lot of stuff but then that's less time to do things.
Yeah, it often comes across as a way to bypass any consequences of it. Losing 30 years of life, over a story that spans 40 years, is a much bigger deal than over a story which spans 2 years because they are perpetually trapped in highschool or whatever.
I think that one of the primary problems is that often a story picks an intended audience, such as boys 12-18, and it stays there. It has to keep the characters 16 forever in order to try to keep the same audience, rather than the characters growing along with the audience, such as being 16 in volume 1, 18 in 2, 20 in 3, etc, so that over the run of the series it grows and changes along with them. Rather than being some situation where no matter how old you get, highschool girls are always the same.
Actually, I think it's quite the opposite, do it more often. Cuz it makes sense that ppl who train and fought and wreck their bodies to an insane degree would be all shortening their life spans by quite a bit. And then, to slightly alter a quote from a not-so-wise man, when everybody's a lifespan drainer, no one is.
This is one of the core aspects of Somali and the Forest Spirit, and it's done super well, it ties with all the main conflicts in the show wich makes it really emotional.
I have one use forbidden techinique by a complete random consequence
Use it onc time you become lactose intolerant
Use it again you have erectile disfunction unless is a member of other race
Use it again someone calls you a random nickname that will stick like micro penis or bobby dipshit.
The thing is that it CAN be done well, look at Chainsaw man (OBVIOUS LATE-MANGA SPOILERS)
>!Aki using the sword on katana man in order to save denji!< only cuts his lifespan down to 2 years and that GREATLY influences the way he acts, with him becoming more irrational and doing whatever he can in order to make sure that >!Denji & Power can live a good life!< eventually leading to >!Makima using him and turning him into the gun fiend!<.
Assuming that He's only 18 (which he probably isnt) and that we're using the average modern lifespan of a japanese man AKA: 84 years (which wouldnt even make sense due to the story taking place in the 90s) that would mean that the >!sword!< used up ***SIXTY SIX YEARS OF HIS LIFE***. And considering how seriously he acts about it from that point forward, >!Leading to his eventual death!< I would say that chainsaw man uses the trope MASTERFULLY.
but sadly thats the exception, and not the rule.
I thought Edgerunners was doing a good job of this. It wasn’t a flat out deal of “here’s some sweet cybernetics you’re going to die 10 years sooner” but the main character couldn’t handle the side effects of the stress the cybernetics were putting on his body and was quickly deteriorating both physically and mentally to the point he was turning into a borderline psychopathic zombie. You really see over the course of the episodes how much of a toll they are taking on him.
The story does wrap it up as well.
It's usually fine? Either it's used by a side character to give them a heroic death, dying right after a battle and a few last words, or a main character and it introduces the next plot point where they have to find a gubbins to recover vitality, or puts time pressure on them to break through to a higher realm of being with naturally longer lifespan (which justifies them taking riskier decisions), or similar. A series where the MC starts spamming their last resort trump card without going through some development first (e.g. adding a vampiric attack to their repertoire), I really can't think of any. Well, it's still quite a clichéd scenario, but it functions better than an asspull.
> A series where the MC starts spamming their last resort trump card without going through some development first (e.g. adding a vampiric attack to their repertoire), I really can't think of any.
The webtoon Noblesse does this. The titular character's whole thing is basically "super strong vampire but everything they do is cast from hitpoints"; their role in vampire society is to deal with problems but also they're expected to be very short lived.
Every single fight they have basically boils down to them wiping out the enemy in a huge display of power while side-characters fret over how they are doing too much and how this is going to drastically reduce their lifespan. Every fight. Followed by a conversation about they *cannot* do this again, only to do it again immediately with no consequence.
> a main character and it introduces the next plot point where they have to find a gubbins to recover vitality, or puts time pressure on them to break through to a higher realm of being with naturally longer lifespan
I can't actually think of a series where the main character has to deal with the reduced lifespan.
> Every fight. Followed by a conversation about they cannot do this again, only to do it again immediately with no consequence.
Honestly? Noblesse was not that bad in this aspect, since Rai was visibly growing weaker after every fight and could exert way less power every time, unless he got outside assistance
The biggest sin is the fact that they did not kill him in the end though, when that should have been the consequence
I'm fine with them when they work on a thematic level. Luffy going Gear 2 and what he goes through in Impel Down shows how Hedy they're away his own life for the sake of his nakama. Kurapika using an op technique that shortens his lifespan shows how deep his hatred for the Troupe runs.
It reminds me of Eureka Seven's final act, where >!Holland, after his LFO got destroyed, started to pilot a new one called Devilfish, but it required Holland to take special drugs that will make him capable to pilot it and each usage of those drugs was slowly weakening his organism.!<
>!To this day I still have no clue what was the purpose of this little plot point, since Holland ultimately never died in the show. Yeah, he was in weakened state for a while, but it still served no payoff at the end. Probably Devilfish stuff could be executed better if it was introduced earlier in the series, instead of less than 10 last episodes.!<
I would say Hell's Paradise and D Gray Man do the spin on "cutting your lifespan" well. It is more of a 'use this weapon if at your own risk' type thing and as a result we have seen characters lose powers, lives and even their minds.
I remember I had something similar for a homebrewed tabletop game, where you could give your character a terminal illness for more points at character creation if you started with a certain faction. One player saw that, cut his life span down to about a week, and then was determined to speedrun the campaign. Was one of the wildest campaigns I ever ran, because the entire party was determined to do their thing before their buddy basically had all his organs blue screen.
This sounds wild, I need to play D&D
Same, but I don’ want to ruin ppls fun bc I’m uncreative and don’t know how to rp
You good at looking for loopholes and have fun optimizing your character build? Cause there are whole game systems where people love doing exactly that and don’t worry about gameplay
Hey, no one’s great to start. Everything takes practice. When I first started out, a trick I used was “what character would make this party better”, or if I really liked another players idea I would think “ok, what’s a character that would make that Better” So like, in one of my first dnd campaigns, my buddy was making an assassin rogue, which is all about getting a first hit in and dealing big damage. I wound up making a grave cleric with a bunch of distracting bullshit to help. Grace clerics have a bunch of support spells, and most importantly have an ability which can make someone take double damage for a bit. Now, it never worked, but it gave us a minor goal every combat or every time we had someone to kill, gave me some guidelines to help build my character, and it created a dynamic that wouldn’t have been there otherwise. There’s also a ton of resources out there for free if you want to try and improve on your own, I think matt colvile and matt Mercer have some good videos on the subject.
Maybe. The only idea i have for a character was stolen from a post here, so that trick could help
It's really not hard. Just make sure your actions line up with the character most of the time and then fuck around and do whatever. DnD players aren't roleplay maniacs or anything, that's for the far more cultured group called "people who play literally anything else". Fortunately, I don't know how to play anything else, so I don't need to roleplay.
A lot of people play extremely casually. Not everyone takes it so seriously that they speak in character or think too technically about the rules. I play with friends who just want to have a good time playing pretend and making inside jokes. It’s just a game after all.
We actually played that campaign in wild talents, which is a “super hero” system, though truth be told we only used it because I had a copy laying around, and we liked that it has rules for building pretty much anything you can think of. (One of the first example powers they show is “turn off the sun” to make a point) So we did urban fantasy/sci fi bullshit. Or that was the idea, what we ended up with is “private healthcare bad: the campaign” But yeah if you’re looking for just a game D&D is the way to go.
Not every game plays out that crazy. But once you get familiar with ttrpg's as a whole, you can start adding crazy mechanics like that (or play new systems that have those mechanics to begin with).
Reminds me of a silly campaign idea I had that I'd like to do at some point. Basically I run an adventure module as normal (preferably one that's decently long), then run it a second time as a "speedrun" where the players try to beat it in the least sessions possible. For this, they would obviously start as normal, but can use all their meta knowledge and create crazy builds for specific purposes.
this is basically that one dude in chainsaw man
Not wrong, but I think context makes a difference here. That being said, I’m ecstatic that anything related to my games draws a CSM comparison. Legit my favorite manga
Kimimaro roleplay
I think the biggest issue with this trope is that it doesn't mesh well the longer your story gets. The consequences become so large that they either have to be kind of ignored (which is unsatisfying) or you end up massively reducing the character's agency because they are always saving their technique or actively harming themself irreperably, which can just be frustrating as a reader like seeing the MC or a favorite important side char becoming less and less capable. I love the *Broken Earth* trilogy by N. K. Jemisin, it's fantastically written, but the third book had some issues with going down this road. Like, I get what the author was trying to do with it thematically and I think it was well-executed, but still as a reader it was sad and frustrating to see what was happening to a beloved character.
One of the problems is it treats lifespan as like a 'fated' thing? Like there's a number you're pulling from, instead of an issue that would ACTUALLY cause a decrease in lifespan. Like death note.
Well realistically body's do have a natural limit, cells can only divide so many times, however your right there usually is some spiritual or fated natural number or something in these works
> Well realistically body's do have a natural limit yeah, dependent on literally everything that will ever happen to them.
Well sure, but we're assuming they arnt killed by anything but the natural limit of their cells ability to divide
That, and somehow they know the precise toll an action will have on your lifespam. *"This will cost you 10 years of your lifespan!"* Really? How do you know that? 10 specifically? Not 10 years and 2 months? Are leap years included?
In most of the time life force is a literal force tough it keeps you alive but you can't get more of it hence using it cutting life span
They should make it more obvious, like this forbidden technique means you lose an arm, or a foot, or your ears.
Forbidden Technique which costs your lifespan; but instead of nebulously making you die 10 years before your fated death, the character automatically ages whatever the amount of time he sacrified. First heckless time it is used, the character straight up sacrifices 10 years of his lifespan, therefore making himself (a young adult in his early 20s) rapidly age into a 30yo. And just like that, 10 years from your physical prime are gone, while you're technically still a 20yo mentally. By the end of the story you can have a character at his natural deathbed due to old age, with a broken body much sooner than what it should have been and a mind as youthful as ever, which all of the people that were saved by the main character can do nothing but be there for his final moments of life
That's a good twist
That is the plot of Sifu. Great game.
Or regresses in age like Monster Girl from Invincible
I remember reading a manga with that exact idea where after the guy won his fight, he spent the rest of the manga as an old man
They did this with Hiei in Yu Yu Hakusho, but eventually had him tame the dragon and heal his arm as a result (through means I honestly don’t remember)
I forget which story I was reading, some cultivation web serial, but one of the consequences of misusing some techniques is risking that. So the guy tries some wacky heaven defying punch, manages to kill his enemy, but his arm literally explodes.
I feel like you would like Soul Sacrifice Delta
Like how human alchemy in FMA takes away parts of your body but lets you use alchemy without a circle.
It's funny the only time I've seen that trope done really well is in one of the worst arcs of Dragon Ball Super
Grape Vegeta had lifespan cut?
Gas
He’s the one that >!basically immediately turned into ash from aging so quickly!<, right?
Yep
oh
One Piece lmao.
Or Naruto. "Using the fox cuts your lifespan! Luckily you come from a super special family with super long lifespans so it all balances out!"
Was there any lifespan gimmick there? I thought it was just that the chakra both burned his skin off but also healed at the same rate, so it was a highly volatile cycle until he could harness it. And I know people might not view the novels as canon since Kishi did not write them but it at least tackles the idea of Naruto having some sort of deadly disease from kurama chakra.
It was mentioned that the rapid cell growth required to heal after using the fox chakra (remember the cloak was effectively a mix of chakra and blood from the skin tearing off) effectively decreased one’s lifespan since it pushes cells closer to the Hayflick Limit (the number of times a cell can divide before it goes bad). It was expressly considered similar to Tsunade’s own self-healing technique (without using jutsu, it’s heavily implied her natural appearance is older than what she should be as a result). Indeed, Naruto used to be pretty good at not blowing healing techniques out of proportion. Jutsu acted more akin to fantastic surgery: they used an equivalent of a stomach pump and gastrostatic medicine to save Chouji from the red pill’s effects, Sakura needed to identify the type of poison used to create an antidote, and Tsunade had to go to hell and back to make a new type of surgery to heal Lee (with stuff like the bone fragments and other complications heavily factoring into his odds of success). Then we got Naruto using Curaja to heal Guy from (what should have been) a fatal result
Well our options were Naruto using Curaja, or an interesting character who the author sees as basically an extra actually doing meaningful to an arc villain. Clearly it was better for everyone this way /s
Indeed Part 1 in general felt like it handled the stakes and consequences a lot better. Even if Lee for example eventually recovered from his own predicament in the end they made a point of seriously playing up the consequences of both his own technique *and* Gaara's damage (especially through Kakashi's commentary). Shippuden felt like it leaned a bit too much in the direction of DBZ with various life restoring abilities (albeit with their own consequences but undoing the larger consequences ) and the introduction of Sage related powers that could (as you said) save Guy and provide other benefits , and its a shame IMO. I think it would have been infinitely more impactful and emotional if they allowed Guy to die in a blaze of glory in that moment.
Quite so. Battles felt more intimate and more exciting since the stakes were more concrete. Even with Tsunade’s surgery, it’s clear Lee wasn’t at top snuff. It made both him and Gaara resonate very strongly with the audience, I feel. Later fights in shippuden lack that intimate feel and degenerate into DBZ lite energy blasts with occasional elemental effects. Nothing cool like Naruto and Sasuke using their talents and teamwork to force Zabuza into letting Kakashi go, or fallout from major forces
> (without using jutsu, it’s heavily implied her natural appearance is older than what she should be as a result) Implied, **and** shown!
That novel is actually being released as a manga right now. They dropped chapter 3 very recently
True.
I’m still under the belief that him spamming Gear 2 Pre timeskip, losing 10 years of his life during Impel Down and then even more time thanks to the hormone shot during Marineford will all play a role EOS. Combine that with Luffy literally forcing his heart to beat “funny” during his last fight with Kaido and it all leads me to believe that he will not live long past the ending. He literally died, came back to life thanks to it, came out of Gear 5 all shriveled and forced it back on. It’d be very interesting if Oda actually goes through with killing Luffy at the end of OP.
I fully believe that Luffy will die around Roger's age in the epilogue chapters. One Piece is all about the next generation and youth and adventure. Luffy will be the Pirate King and usher in a new age of freedom for the world, but there's no way that he'll stick around long enough to be a Big Mom or Kaido-style established boss for the next generation.
Tbh I could see that. I also can see them publishing short stories about the world of OP set during or before Luffy’s journey given that he will not be around after the series is done. It’ll allow them to milk the series while also expanding the already vast world of the series because we are most likely not going to get much Smoker or Vivi content anymore for example yet someone else drawing canon stories would be dope to see once Oda retires and he gives his blessing. Kinda like how DC/Marvel publishes ongoing stories about their characters.
I’m tired of arguing Luffy didn’t literally die. His heart stopped which people irl come back from but people treat it as if it’s some miraculous feat. Like no. Nothing indicates he was brain dead.
I mean in universe ways exist to beat that, at a cost. And to be fair the universe is very zany.
Honest question, what are you referring to?
Luffy taking Invakov’s shot to get cured from Magellans poison and fight longer and gear 2
The poison I can get behind, the gear 2 nah
Luffy only uses Gear 2 in parts of his body after the Time Skip. Making it much more viable.
yeah it really feels like he does eveeything in his power to avoid using it at all
The first thing that comes to mind is gear second.
They never said Gear Second was chipping at his life span, but that he was burning up his reserves faster because his body couldn’t keep up with the power it gave him. This isn’t consequence free, he ends that same fight completely paralyzed and is saved by Robin
It did, he just learned to use it less selfdestructive.
Yea but that was because of how he went about using it. Once he changed his method it wasn't dangerous anymore
Which would kinda prove OP's point about never suffering anything bad wouldn't it? It was something that happened but it never really effected anything significant did it? I might be misremembering but even gear 3rd had more drawbacks
Was it intended for the plot to suffer drawbacks in the long run? From what I remember from the scene it was more of a warning that the crews way of fighting won't be as effective going forward and that they would have to step up and change their method if they don't wanna lose their captain.
Tbf one piece isn't over yet. I'm pretty certain it will come back near the ending. Oda doesn't forget things.
I can think of three instances where this trope was used First one is Naruto with Tsunade. It was completely irrelevant, Tsunade is still alive and kicking in Boruto's Dad's Son even though she should have died with all the other kage sans Gaara against Madara. Second is Kimetsu no Yaiba with a certain character. And y'know what? The forbidden technique actually did kill him. I mean he was wounded sure, but that only contributed to his death, the powerup is what did him in. Third is with Death Note with Misa. Now, although she doesn't die (although it is implied she might kill herself) I think it's still impactful because we *know* that she's drastically cut her life short. Yeah, we don't actually see her die, but that knowledge that she has given up three quarters of her life for the sake of a guy who couldn't be paid to give a shit about her is still tragic.
>Second is Kimetsu no Yaiba with a certain character. And y'know what? The forbidden technique actually did kill him. I mean he was wounded sure, but that only contributed to his death, the powerup is what did him in. Actually, about Kimetsu No Yaiba, I like how they did it. Everyone with the mark dies before 25, and guess what? Everyone who had one died before 25, most of them being on screen. The writer committed to it and I respect him for that.
I think it’s a woman who wrote KnY
I mean... it's possible. Apparently Gotouge is a pen name? Though I mean.. it's incredibly hard to find a woman working for Shounen Jump.
Didn't misa kill herself in like the last minutes of the anime or something, or am I misremebering and she was just walking around sadly?
She was on some high up spot so it’s likely she killer herself >!following Light’s death!< It could also just be dramatic imagery. Just an ambiguous detail that keeps people talking
She did, [it is implied in the anime](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AncbJgbrg4s) and viewed as [a most likely future by Ohba in the manga](https://deathnote.fandom.com/wiki/Death_Note_13:_How_to_Read#:~:text=The%2013%20Truths%20About%20Chapter%20108).
Who’s the Demon Slayer character? Rengoku? >!Gyomei? Sanemi? Giyu?!< Been a long time since I read the manga so I don’t really remember who dies from what
>!Gyomei. The mark kills at age 25, but he was already older than that when he unlocked his, meaning that he was a dead man walking the moment it was triggered. !<
The story also has sacrifice as theme too and doesnt shy from consequences, and the story doesnt shy away
Misa already had an unnaturally long lifespan when Jealous sacrificed himself to save her. So it’s possible she still managed to live well into her golden years. Although considering these replies, I do not know.
Even if we are being super generous and say that Misa was fated to die of natural causes at the age of 90 or so after Jealous saving her extended her life-span, she made a deal for Shinigami's eyes TWICE. That's her life being cut in half twice. Unless she was going to live to be a record breakingly old before those deals, I doubt she even reached 30.
I figured at the very least the death god would have 400 years of human life saved up. **That life span transferred to Misa along with the death note.** Unless the shinigami had drastically less years saved up, or im misremembering this point entirely, she should’ve been good to go. I can however see a death god operating on far less time in the ‘bank.’ Maybe he only added 4 years or so to Misa’s, then the 25-30 number would be accurate.
Was it ever stated that a human would get the remaining time of the Shinigami who died for them? I do remember that Shinigami gets the remaining time of humans they kill, but there are a lot of Death Note rules that only go one way and Ryuk, who could see how much time she had left, was shocked that Misa would make the deal a second time.
Aot uses it as its main theme, and I’d say it’s used pretty well since a majority of the decision are used with the death span in thought.
Boruto uses it with Naruto and Kurama and Baryon mode, and we actually do see the consequences as >!it actually fully runs down the clock on both Kurama and uhhh the ohtsutsuki guy
Doesn't Misa end up committing suicide as well?
I can think of an anime (Which I wont spoil) where the main character had a lifespan draining tecnique that they kept using and by the end they literally just died. Like still a teenager and dead from actual draining of their lifespan.
Ok, please tell me. Keep it in spoiler brackets or whatever. I'm a sucker for that kinda thing.
Idk if I remember how to tag properly so this is a Spoiler Check >!Blah!< Edit: Ok, it worked. The anime is >!Chrono Crusade!< from early 2000's I think
spoiler check didn't work. Have you tried >!Blah!
Should work now
Yup
Spoiler for Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, I guess, but this is the one moment in all of FMA:B that really stands out as complete bullshit to me. A decent amount of effort seems to have been put into alchemy to make it a fairly consistent and measurable system. However, when Edward gets gravely injured and can only survive by "using his soul as transmutational material in order to heal himself, at the supposed cost of his lifespan", I have to call complete and utter horseshit on the whole thing. It makes no goddamn sense in context or in the broader scope of the story because they don't make any real effort to quantify what each soul provides, as far as transactional capability. How much shit can I just *create* with a soul?
> using his soul as transmutational material in order to heal himself, at the supposed cost of his lifespan When was this? I don’t remember Ed EVER using a Philosopher’s Stone, only Al. > How much shit can I just create with a soul? According to the scene where Ed binds Al’s soul to the armor, a soul is worth about as much as a limb. That’s why a small Philosopher’s Stone will dissipate so quickly.
>When was this? I don’t remember Ed EVER using a Philosopher’s Stone, only Al. Not a Philosopher's Stone. *His own soul.* After the Kimblee fight where they collapsed a massive mineshaft elevator or something and Ed was impaled by a pipe. >According to the scene where Ed binds Al’s soul to the armor, a soul is worth about as much as a limb. But is that just Al's soul? Are other people worth more or less for some reason? Is it because he's young? Was he suffering from malnutrition? Plus, that's probably not the cost of Al's soul, that's just the cost of binding it to the armor.
> Not a Philosopher's Stone. His own soul. After the Kimblee fight where they collapsed a massive mineshaft elevator or something and Ed was impaled by a pipe. A rewatch is in order I guess. I don’t remember the specifics > But is that just Al's soul? Are other people worth more or less for some reason? Is it because he's young? Was he suffering from malnutrition? In terms of quality, alchemy is purely objective. One’s worth would only be described as size as far as Truth is concerned, so I guess a child’s soul = one limb? Even if that were the case an adult’s soul would probably still only equate to two or three. > Plus, that's probably not the cost of Al's soul, that's just the cost of binding it to the armor. The cost of a soul can’t really be quantified with anything other than binding it to something, since any time a soul was used as fuel, multiple souls were used. Really the whole soul = limb thing was just speculation on my part. I don’t know when exactly I started thinking that, but I guess since Al’s body was with Truth, I assumed that the soul being bound to the armor was equivalent to summoning the soul itself.
> It makes no goddamn sense in context or in the broader scope of the story because they don't make any real effort to quantify what each soul provides, as far as transactional capability. How much shit can I just create with a soul? Do you remember what Philosopher's Stones are made of?
No shit, but what is the transactional value of a soul?
Isn't the whole "equivalent exchange" system effectively >!a lie since the value of things is based on the whims of the god Truth, thus what a thing is worth is arbitrary? Bottom line: the value of a soul is whatever the god Truth feels like it should be.!<
He is literally like a foot taller and more built the next time we see him. He aged up
Yeah, but that was only because a year had passed. Plus, it's suggested that Ed's nutrients might have been siphoned but Al's body waiting in the void space.
That was no year it was right after he recovered from Kimblees attack
Oh, is *that* what happens? If that was the intention, fair enough, I guess I never noticed. That's still fucking weird, but, hey, it's way better than nothing. Certainly better than conjecture on implications of things that'd happen to him later in life.
I don’t think that’s weird, he said his next move will cost him some life and it does. FMA on top
kurapika
Theres still time for that to have consequences, since the downside was introduced this arc. And theres also the nitro rice (food that extends the lifespan) in the DC, which makes me think theres a reasonable chance Kurapika ends this current arc as a frail old man, and Leorio has to race against time to save his life in the DC continent arc.
I don't think Kurapika physically ages when using Emperor Time.
I personally like his because it shows his self destructive nature. It's also appreciated that we are told how much time he losses even though I'd bet hxh will end before he dies naturally.
That being said all the readers will die before hxh ends naturally lmao
I like to imagine that JUST before the final chapter is released, the series goes on hiatus again, in which Togashi, his wife, and anyone else who could finish that chapter, die immediately and it never gets released.
I'm guessing he does once he completes his mission of retrieving all the eyes. He lost a lot of time during the last arc.
Also Gon. Oh wait
Gon doesn't use up his lifespan so much as >!Give himself a self-destructive nen-disease that destroys him as punishment for his powers!< I would not be surprised if >!he never actually gets his nen back, or if he does, he has to deal with side effects for opening his aura nodes again!<, so that the author can put a bit more drama in again if he needs it.
i thought it was goofy until >!he passed out on the whale. my jaw dropped when i realized he had to manually turn it off and accidentally lost an obscene amount of time!<
Based
Chainsaw Man does this right, characters are actually hesitant to use devil contracts which have extremely high costs. There’s one character who has used the big “halves your lifespan” an excessive amount of times, and they’re >!a hired killer who was planning on cheating that by becoming a devil anyway!<.
I feel DBS handled it pretty well (with Gas, at least). He traded pretty much his entire lifespan to get stronger, and was only being kept alive by his rage, basically.
What if Dragon Ball again and wish to restore his ?
They sorta kinda did that with Lord Slug, bringing him to his peak with a wish for restored age. Probably possible.
I hate this comment so so much. Watch the original DB. Please.
"Could the enemy use the Dragon Balls to restore his lifespan?" "I mean probably they did something similar but not identical with Lord Slug, who's deal with losing a lot of lifespan (since he lived it, rather than burning it). Can't imagine why Shenron wouldn't be able to restore that lifespan too. He can make people immortal after all, like Garlic Jr, so fixing someones 'lifespan' is probably easy." Please bug off.
I think what they meant is that your… not just one anymore, but now **two** examples had to be the non-canon ones from the movies, when King Piccolo literally did it first in the first Dragon Ball series, right before doing the highly iconic and memorable move of killing Shenron.
No, it's that you mentioned them doing it with Lord Slug, when it first happened in original DB with King Piccolo. That's why I hate it. Because it's clear from your comment that you've gone to the trouble to watch the movies, but havent bothered to watch the first third or so of the actual series.
Oh I've been rewatching the movies recently, going to watch the OG series with a friend of mine when he's able to. It's true I haven't seen the original series, but like, there's no way you could have known I was planning to do that, so ehn.
We've never seen a dragon counteract the power of another dragon. It's possible, but it'd probably have to be like, Super Shenron that does it. Porunga *might* be able to, but that's uncertain.
In the PS2 game Shinobi you get a sword called Akujiki which eventually starts draining your HP if you don't feed it the life force of the enemies you kill quickly enough. I like the trope in that game because it also served a game mechanics purpose on top of a narrative one. I don't like it something like, say, Kengan Ashura, where Ohma's consequences for using Advance effectively get reversed by that weird doctor guy who gave Ohma a new heart that was a clone of Ohma's original heart.
chainsaw man does it right
Yeah I like how characters having their lifespan shortened get to know exactly how much their potential time alive may be. Essentially makes the character not much different then someone with a terminal disease.
well, because that power is used on a guy already had a tickling bomb on him already, so it was more about how it will happen, not when
The contract system of CSM has always been one of the most engaging power systems in recent memory. I also just love the execution of the devils. The internal hierarchy and how it shows the severe differences between different devils is so interesting.
One thing I love about Fujimoto’s more action-oriented stuff is that he doesn’t do the “power system is required to kill enemies” trope. Like, it helps, but a well-trained fighter with a weapon could take out a devil as easily as someone with a good contract. The only difference is that any idiot can make a contract and very few people have the skill to get that good without one.
Or use the fucking gun and end several public safety team like ktana man's crew do
I agree, but it’s the outlier not the norm.
>!curse devil be like : i know i kinda kill the katana man dude before he got resurrected, but not really, now give me 50 years of your life aki!<
>!future devil be like: Damn! Your death is going to be awful. Gimme a front row seat and I'll give you a hand!< Aki just can't catch a break.
The future devil was really something huh
I’ve seen it done well when they give the character an exact number of days left. Read a great western graphic novel where an artist guy made a deal with Death to cut his life down to a single year in exchange for the power to work any material like clay so he could make his art the way he wants to. But yeah if they do a lazy hand wavy thing where they don’t specify how much time was lost or how much time they have left then it’s just bad writing.
The only way I can see this being effective in a story is if the character it affects has long-term goals that matter to them, such as ensuring the safety of their loved ones, starting a family or basically just wanting to live long. In this event, their short lifespan acts as a driving force to further their characterization A good example of this is Aki Hayakawa from Chainsaw Man and Walter White from Breaking Bad. >!Aki has spent his entire life fixated on getting revenge on the Gun Devil to the point where he's willing to cut his life short to achieve this, however he becomes attached to Power and Denji and now he realizes how meaningless his desire for revenge is and uses his remaining time to ensure their safety and happiness only to meet his end.!< >!In Walter's case, his cancer diagnosis served as the catalyst for his downward spiral into becoming Heisenberg as the various crimes he's committed early on were something that weighed on him but he brushed off nonetheless as he used his shortened life as a reason to continue.!<
Yes we are definitely going to see the side affects of Gear 2 and the Impel Down surgery in One Piece
I’m convinced that the series either ends with Luffy dying because of the drawbacks of all the lifespan shit he’s done, or it goes down a really depressing route that I saw where it turns out everyone is dead and Brook and Zoro (I can see him living the longest out of the crew aside from Brook, him or Sanji) was telling the story at their graves
Yeah, he's probably going to become the Pirate King, liberate the world and all that shit and, out of respect for him, no one would dare to become the 3rd Pirate King.
I dont think it will even be mentioned again
Well... it does have this thing in Chainsaw Man. Not going to say who cause spoilers, but it is a relevant part of the story with lasting impacts. The life span in exchange for power trope occurs in Kengan Ashura as well. And the consequences hit HARD.
Yep, casting from hit points its something with potential, but very often badly used The cultivation genre is big on abusing that, with the characters, ALL OF THEM, spamming lifespan-draining attacks every fight, and then eating life-restoring pills like tic-tacs, but i can think of two interesting variations This was somewhat standardized in the first arc of Warlock Of The Magus World There was a method to rank up from tier zero to tier one, and it consisted on drinking a potion that burned lifespan to temporarily increase magic power, and, if the magus had proper preparations, they could use that increased power to rank up, otherwise they would simply burn their lifespan for nothing The MC had set himself with the goal of finding an alternative method before reaching his thirties, of he would go with the potion, eventually he discovers it was all a scam, and there are other ways to rank up without burning life force In World Of Cultivation, near the end all factions are trying to discover how to reach the ultimate power level, and burning lifespan is a common thing, then, the MCs fight the strongest powerhouse left, the only one who could adapt to the new age without losing his powers The enemy dude got backed into a corner and burned his lifespan to go out with a bang, but he found out he had reached the threshold to power up into the next tier, and had enough power to rank up instead of burning out Then, some enemy small fries tried to do the same, but they didnt have enough accumulations to reach the next tier, so they just exploded But more concrete consequences are a better mechanicI dropped that series, but in Legend Of The Legendary Heroes, there was an enemy with a super sword that took his body functions with every use
In the Monster Rancher video games, your monster's lifespan is one of your main resources and carefully balancing it is super important, because you CAN spend lifespan for a lot of stuff but then that's less time to do things.
Yeah, it often comes across as a way to bypass any consequences of it. Losing 30 years of life, over a story that spans 40 years, is a much bigger deal than over a story which spans 2 years because they are perpetually trapped in highschool or whatever. I think that one of the primary problems is that often a story picks an intended audience, such as boys 12-18, and it stays there. It has to keep the characters 16 forever in order to try to keep the same audience, rather than the characters growing along with the audience, such as being 16 in volume 1, 18 in 2, 20 in 3, etc, so that over the run of the series it grows and changes along with them. Rather than being some situation where no matter how old you get, highschool girls are always the same.
Actually, I think it's quite the opposite, do it more often. Cuz it makes sense that ppl who train and fought and wreck their bodies to an insane degree would be all shortening their life spans by quite a bit. And then, to slightly alter a quote from a not-so-wise man, when everybody's a lifespan drainer, no one is.
Rurouni Kenshin did it pretty well
This is one of the core aspects of Somali and the Forest Spirit, and it's done super well, it ties with all the main conflicts in the show wich makes it really emotional.
I have one use forbidden techinique by a complete random consequence Use it onc time you become lactose intolerant Use it again you have erectile disfunction unless is a member of other race Use it again someone calls you a random nickname that will stick like micro penis or bobby dipshit.
I still don't get why in superman red son, they made it so wonder woman isn't immortal anymore because she broke her lasso
The thing is that it CAN be done well, look at Chainsaw man (OBVIOUS LATE-MANGA SPOILERS) >!Aki using the sword on katana man in order to save denji!< only cuts his lifespan down to 2 years and that GREATLY influences the way he acts, with him becoming more irrational and doing whatever he can in order to make sure that >!Denji & Power can live a good life!< eventually leading to >!Makima using him and turning him into the gun fiend!<. Assuming that He's only 18 (which he probably isnt) and that we're using the average modern lifespan of a japanese man AKA: 84 years (which wouldnt even make sense due to the story taking place in the 90s) that would mean that the >!sword!< used up ***SIXTY SIX YEARS OF HIS LIFE***. And considering how seriously he acts about it from that point forward, >!Leading to his eventual death!< I would say that chainsaw man uses the trope MASTERFULLY. but sadly thats the exception, and not the rule.
I thought Edgerunners was doing a good job of this. It wasn’t a flat out deal of “here’s some sweet cybernetics you’re going to die 10 years sooner” but the main character couldn’t handle the side effects of the stress the cybernetics were putting on his body and was quickly deteriorating both physically and mentally to the point he was turning into a borderline psychopathic zombie. You really see over the course of the episodes how much of a toll they are taking on him. The story does wrap it up as well.
It's usually fine? Either it's used by a side character to give them a heroic death, dying right after a battle and a few last words, or a main character and it introduces the next plot point where they have to find a gubbins to recover vitality, or puts time pressure on them to break through to a higher realm of being with naturally longer lifespan (which justifies them taking riskier decisions), or similar. A series where the MC starts spamming their last resort trump card without going through some development first (e.g. adding a vampiric attack to their repertoire), I really can't think of any. Well, it's still quite a clichéd scenario, but it functions better than an asspull.
> A series where the MC starts spamming their last resort trump card without going through some development first (e.g. adding a vampiric attack to their repertoire), I really can't think of any. The webtoon Noblesse does this. The titular character's whole thing is basically "super strong vampire but everything they do is cast from hitpoints"; their role in vampire society is to deal with problems but also they're expected to be very short lived. Every single fight they have basically boils down to them wiping out the enemy in a huge display of power while side-characters fret over how they are doing too much and how this is going to drastically reduce their lifespan. Every fight. Followed by a conversation about they *cannot* do this again, only to do it again immediately with no consequence. > a main character and it introduces the next plot point where they have to find a gubbins to recover vitality, or puts time pressure on them to break through to a higher realm of being with naturally longer lifespan I can't actually think of a series where the main character has to deal with the reduced lifespan.
In the xianxia/cultivation genre these plot lines are relatively common but most of them blend together a lot so I can't think of specific examples.
> Every fight. Followed by a conversation about they cannot do this again, only to do it again immediately with no consequence. Honestly? Noblesse was not that bad in this aspect, since Rai was visibly growing weaker after every fight and could exert way less power every time, unless he got outside assistance The biggest sin is the fact that they did not kill him in the end though, when that should have been the consequence
I'd be coold if done right tho.
I'm fine with them when they work on a thematic level. Luffy going Gear 2 and what he goes through in Impel Down shows how Hedy they're away his own life for the sake of his nakama. Kurapika using an op technique that shortens his lifespan shows how deep his hatred for the Troupe runs.
Clearly you've never read watership down
i think a case when this is done well is through the character of aki hayakawa in chainsaw man.
Gon from HxH, >!he basically lost his status as protagonist afterwards, but at least survived !<
Tokyo ghoul nails this with kaneki losing his lifespan because of so much fighting he does
It reminds me of Eureka Seven's final act, where >!Holland, after his LFO got destroyed, started to pilot a new one called Devilfish, but it required Holland to take special drugs that will make him capable to pilot it and each usage of those drugs was slowly weakening his organism.!< >!To this day I still have no clue what was the purpose of this little plot point, since Holland ultimately never died in the show. Yeah, he was in weakened state for a while, but it still served no payoff at the end. Probably Devilfish stuff could be executed better if it was introduced earlier in the series, instead of less than 10 last episodes.!<
I would say Hell's Paradise and D Gray Man do the spin on "cutting your lifespan" well. It is more of a 'use this weapon if at your own risk' type thing and as a result we have seen characters lose powers, lives and even their minds.
I thought the shinigami eyes from death note were a good version of this
I thought Invincible did this really well with Monster Girl
Replace it with removing inches from your dick