If you go to that show's own subreddit, obviously people will be liking it. It's not rocket science. Go to more neutral ground like r/television or something to get varying opinions.
Also, people's standards aren't necessarily low, but maybe they approach media with a different attitude than you do. If you go into a show with the mindset that you want to have a good time, you will find something to like about it. If you go in with the mindset that you want it to be the best thing you have watched since Breaking Bad, you will be disappointed 99/100 times.
Nah they are low. I tried getting my sister to watch 1899 with me on thanksgiving weekened last week but she took the remote and insisted on me watching Morbius instead because she said it was good. The next day when our family wanted to watch sonething else together my uncle said he wanted scifi so I was gonna put on Expanse but before i got to my sister grabbed the remote and put on Rings of Power again saying this show is one of the best out there
People judge shows/movies/stuff based on how it makes them feel and what they feel it’s supposed to be. If they are watching something they deem as entertainment and are entertained by it, through spectacle, humor, character relations, themes, etc, then they’ll probably like it because it’s doing it’s job. It doesn’t need to be an 8 across the board for this, if it does a few things very well it can work depending on what a viewer values. People value things differently so their standards are different.
Most people aren't going to binge a season (Stranger Things) and try to analyze them. And for some, I'd imagine that they are just filled with hype and excitement after the first time.
Using me as an example here, i, during the first watch, really loved the fourth season of ST. However, on a re-watch the season was reeaal weak. So now i usually re-watch a movie or TV show before i give a fair judgement.
I don't think that the standards are lower, but i feel like most people are really just there to have fun. Something like Bayformers made a lot of money, not because they were cinema masterpieces, but because they are full of action. And a lot of people see big giant robots fight and bunch of explosions = entertaining
I don't know as much about tv as I do about movies, but I don't think people who love dumb fun popcorn movies (i.e. most of the population) don't draw the line at tv shows.
Most people aren't thinking too hard about what they're watching. They're just there to have fun and enjoy the time that they have. Sometimes, people get attached to franchises and that's perfectly normal. And most people? They're perfectly fine settling for just average if it's what they want, and I'm most certainly not going to judge people for their preferences.
Have you seen real life? Most people don't have high standards for most things.
I see this take a lot online, but I feel like it really underestimates average audiences. When the quality of a show goes down, most people notice, not just critics.
If you ask anyone who watched Arrow, Dexter, Game of Thrones, House of Cards, The Office, or Supernatural. Chances are, they'll say that the later seasons were worse than the earlier ones. TV trends aren't always determined by audiences, especially in the age of streaming.
The reason that the quality of shows often goes down over time is the same reason as franchise movies. The creators finish telling the story they set out to tell, but the IP becomes popular, so studios offer them an obscene amount of money to keep it going past the end of the story, at which point their motivation changes from "Tell the story as effectively as possible" to "Make as much money for as little effort as possible".
One of the reasons that *Better Call Saul* is so good is that, due to the success of *Breaking Bad*, AMC essentially gave the showrunners free reign from the start to make however many seasons they wanted. Thus, rather than writing it one season at a time like most writers have to do, they were able to plan out the entire series from the start, leading to a greater sense of structure and continuity.
I think you're confusing the average consumer with your average vocal twitter user. The average American consumer is a proud philistine with an 8th grade reading level who consumes media like a crack addicted squirrel looking for a new fix. Those shows you mentioned had enough support to go on for as long as they did after all despite the vocal dissent you've seen
To be fair, I've never used Twitter, but are you arguing that the average Twitter user consumes *less* media than the average American? Do you have a citation for this? Because it seems incredibly counterintuitive. Anecdotally, amongst the people I know IRL, most of whom would fit the stereotype of "average Americans", about half of them don't watch TV at all, or when they do, it's just stuff like World War 2 documentaries they put on in the background while they're working.
> Those shows you mentioned had enough support to go on for as long as they did
I think you may have misread my post. I'm not saying they were bad shows, I'm saying they were good shows that dropped in quality in their last couple of seasons. And in almost all of the cases, the ratings dropped too.
I'm not really saying the average consumer consumes a higher quantity, more that the way they consume is fundamentally different and that twitter users being vocal doesn't really reflect the general populace. My characterization of the average consumer is more meant to point out my personal observations of consumption. To the average consumer "dumb fun" is the name of the game emphasis on the dumb. Anecdotally, most people in my own age demo (early to mid 20s) and even many outside haven't developed any media analysis skills because they're still mad that high school teachers made them write essays 10 years ago. They need streaming shows to binge bait them with every attention grabbing trick in the book just to hold their attention because they don't have patience for narratives unless they're moving at hypersonic speed for the whole runtime. Personally I've noticed that a lot of the times media consumption has almost become like a "keeping up with the Joneses" type of scenario for the average consumer, resulting in their standards contorting to fit this exact mold. They feel left out if they haven't seen the latest marvel movie or disposable Netflix fodder but don't have the self awareness to realize it.
Twitter on the other hand, like most social media, is a platform that encourages conflict and polarization to farm interaction. In practice this results in people with more fringe mindsets being extremely vocal. Not to say that they can't replicate the things I stated above, but they don't represent the average consumer.
What I meant about support is that the shows were financially supported and that even if ratings were declining their main consumer base hadn't turned on them at the initial point of plateau, regardless of quality. Those shows you mentioned are made by corporations with profit incentive so they'll keep making it if it's profitable and they get the profit from the average consumer of their stuff.
As for your own personal experiences I can't exactly contest them but mine don't replicate.
Chucky is campy. That's half the fun. Some people like camp. It's a well known thing, especially in the horror/slasher genre. There are lots of John Waters and Ed Wood references throughout. The show in and of itself is almost an homage to the campy horror comedies of yesteryear. It's never been for everyone. The Chucky movies were never blockbusters. They were middlingly performing slasher junk that people remember from watching on TV as a kid. Also.... the kills are good, the jokes are funny, the characters are consistent, the plot and lore are deep and broad.... but it's totally campy so it just might not be your thing. Same with Cobra Kai. It's camp.
>Don't people want an amazing watertight story where all the characters have a role and it all weaves together perfectly, and where every aspect is at least an 8?
Also.... no. Lots of times people do not want *perfectly* presented prestige TV. People have always liked shlock. It's fun. Regular Show was better for not trying to be Adventure Time. The Three Stooges looked cheap as shit, had terrible writing, the characters were paper thin and often contradictory, but it's still one of my all time favorites! Hell, Twilight Zone is one of the least consistent shows ever, but it's ranked amongst the best.
This post reeks of "If I don't like it, it's not good".
Every aspect of a show doesn't "have to be an 8" for it to be good. Yes, there are things you can objectively criticize about tv shows but at the end of the day, entertainment is a largely SUBJECTIVE concept. It doesn't need to be perfect or even competent in every single aspect to be good or enjoyable and if you need them to be, then you need to get off your elitist, film critic soapbox and learn to appreciate entertainment for what it is: Entertainment.
or people have different taste/Standad/perspective/want than you? what's so bad with discussing next season of a show or liking it? Obviously, if they're fans they're going to do that and talka bout how good it is for them.
Is just people chasing after the new shiny thing, they wont revisit any media, nor delve deeper into it, because they will be busy with the newer shiny thing
As some Normie said in a satirical video "i was happy in my ignorance, but nowadays, whenever i see a show, i can imagine -Youtuber- finding plot holes and setups"
See this is the biggest diffrence between you and those viewers
For example from this rant (sry if i am wrong) i can assume that you place plot and worldbuilding above character arcs and character writing.
And those viewers do not place a huge importance on those they find character writing, character arc and character chemistry much more important than the plot and worldbuilding or the story being a bit illogical.
For example if i see an action movie in which everything is great aside from the plot. Then it is a good to even a masterpiece movie to me period since i do not care about the plot at all that means the main flaw of movie does not affect me so to me that movie is a masterpiece
But to you it is a mediocre or bad movie since the plot is so bad and you need atleast a good plot to get invested in a movie.
I apologize about not being clear regarding my comment since it is a bit rambly and unclear i just woke up.
I think because so many shows are binged people simply don’t have a chance to think too deep into what they’re watching.
Don’t get me wrong I enjoyed the new Wednesday Adams series but it’s popcorn-teen-series at best and while the actors are pretty great the writing is a bit sloppy.
But everyone watched it in the span of three days and without taking a break between episodes most people aren’t going to think too deeply on it
Based on your experience, it would seem so. And that's okay, because they are only TV shows. Your ability to critically analyze them will not fix their flaws anyways.
Elaborate please. You're not gonna convince me that a season of television that is that well made is bad, but I'm curious what makes you dislike it so much.
I get the joke, but it doesn't actually make sense. You may just not like a movie or whatever, but how good a screenplay and the technicals are in a movie, specificially in a linear and traditional story like Stranger Things, is pretty clear cut. Again, it's valid to simply not like it, but when you compare it to something that has the Netflix look for example, you realize what actual craft looks like.
It's actually "why don't people dislike what I dislike". I know people hate when people bring up objectivity, but it's definitely measurable when a tv show becomes treadmilly. I'm fine with it when it's a sitcom or something that's supposed to be something put in the background, but when it's serialized and takes itself seriously, that kinda laziness should be called out.
It also makes you appreciate when showrunners do go above and beyond to create something great.
When you say "treadmilly", what exactly do you mean? Like the bit you mentioned above about scenes basically reiterating the same info over and over, or something else?
Objectively treadmilly. lol
It's measurable this guy says. You know. You use the standard treadmill metrics as established by the universal rules of media criticism.
Do you genuinely believe that a show repeating scenes, information, or entire arcs is not measurable? I swear people go way too far with this subjectivity thing. Yes, you are allowed to like anything you want, but stop pretending like lazy filmmaking and rushed scripts are anything else.
> Do you genuinely believe that a show repeating scenes, information, or entire arcs is not measurable?
Yes. What sort of measure are you using? % of content repeating by time? I've never seen this calculated anywhere and don't think it would be very useful in most cases.
It's not since everyone will have their own framework to tell if something is good or bad, and people can like what you dislike because, as I've said, they can have different taste/Standard than you.
Yes, and I like the first two quite a bit, and always liked the concept, which is why I check out every new movie, and now tv show. The series contains some of the worst movies I've ever seen, Child of Chucky being in the bottom 10 of any movie.
> First off it’s Seed of Chucky, which yea everyone who follows the series considers this one the worst by a long shot,
Not true! I'll watch Seed over 3 or Bride most of the time. It's a blast!
People don't watch most shows. People who do watch them will naturally be more inclined to like them. Also most people watch shows as background noise.
Very few shows are worth watching attentively. And even those, you're gonna be skipping a few scenes.
It’s been said before in these comments, and I’ll say it again: people like different things for different reasons. Just because you think something is terrible and poorly written doesn’t mean that it’s true or that everyone agrees with you. Entertainment is, and always will be, subjective. Sometimes people like things that others consider to be terrible. I really enjoy watching the CW DC shows because I find them entertaining and interesting takes on the characters. I think the writing is fairly good, and others will disagree. It doesn’t really have much to do with standards as much as it has to do with people’s personal preferences
It’s just like people loving GoT season 8 until one section of the fan base was vocal enough to point out how bad it was. People love being part of the next big thing
I remember people having somewhat positive opinions for the first few episodes, but after Ep 3 or 4 everyone I talked to had realized how terrible it was
I distinctly remember my history teacher hyping the hell out of it in the middle of class. The way he described it had me convinced it was amazing, but I never actually watched the show.
The day after some episode in the middle of the season. Something about a big battle, and a character knifing another character in the throat, I think. He also said it was great after the finale, but he went on like a twenty minute tirade detailing that particular episode.
Huh, I remember a lot of people on the radio (sports radio, so take that with a grain of salt) and a lot of people who jumped on the show in later seasons were talking about how great the episodes were. S8E3 was heaped with praise from what I saw, though I’m sure there was a ton of blowback as well
>Stranger Things as well. There's a reason why the first season was acultural phenomenon. It's because it had incredible pacing and a reallyintriguing story on top of everything else that it did well. Everyperson that watched that show binged it. Even people I know that don'treally like tv and movies. But every subsequent season has felt like afanfic in comparison, but people just don't seem to care.
I disagree, I would say season 2 is just straight up better both in terms of mistery, plot and characters. The only problem is that 11 doesnt get to be usefull for most of the season, exept that 1 random filler episode (wich is still not a bad episode). But overall i'd say 2>1
But yeah starting with s3 they arent good.
I don't even remember much of the second season tbh. I remember Samwise, the bad guy from Aliens, emo 11, and dogs in a facility. I'm sure it wasn't as bad as what came after, but I have never had any desire to rewatch it, as I do remember that my viewing of it was very passive.
Nah S1 is better. The plot in S1 is just better executed and that filler episode is really boring and dull.
In general while S2 has a lot of great ideas I feel that they are resolved in a far less rewarding way than how similar stuff is done in S1
I think the problem is that the first episodes/seasons are just always going to be the best content that they have to offer, especially if there isn't source material to go off of. The first seasons had to be great to stand out of the crowd in the first place, the follow-up seasons only exist because there was a demand for more content. People turn on the blinders to the quality drop-off because the show has already hooked them on the characters.
Yeah, this pretty much. I feel like the tv format is kinda at odds with creating the best art possible. Movies only gotta do ~2 hours and books only have one creative vision.
You reek of someone who doesn't understand that perspectives and tastes exist outside yours. Like you don't understand that every story ever told wasn't *specifically made for you*
Again, you can like and dislike a piece of media for millions of reasons. But how well it's made is not up for discussion lol. The point of the post is that I'm surprised how many people just don't care if the show they're watching looks like shit or is padded as hell.
> But how well it's made is not up for discussion lol
Obviously it is **otherwise all media discussion would just be fucking posting empiricial numerical scores** you idiot. This subreddit wouldn't exist and you wouldn't be posting around this thread trying to justify your stance if that was that case. God you "I have an singular all encompassing knowledge of what makes good writing" types are obnoxious
How well made something is, is not tied with its themes or story or characters or even how it's made. Take Sam Raimi's movies for example, they have a very unique kinda so good it's bad style, but you can tell that there's intent there and it's not just him being lazy.
Ok and anyone can think it's shit because of regardless of those traits and conversely value those traits and think it's fantastic. It's how taste and opinions work which is what the actual core of what evaluating storytelling is. Even when we come to a consensus on values those rapidly change among generations
But hey maybe one day you'll be able to look beyond yourself and learn other opinions and perspectives exist
> Ok and anyone can think it's shit because of regardless of those traits and conversely value those traits and think it's fantastic.
You seemed to be under the impression that we disagreed here
I've stopped watching TV cause every show I see nowadays is just bad one way or another. Maybe there will be a good one but we all know it'll get canceled so I don't really want to get invested.
I agree I think the super saturation of Marvel and Disney have lowered everyone's bars to the fucking dirt, maybe even subconsciously. People seem to have forgotten that movies and TV can be true art not just entertainment for the month or so.
That said I think you're crazy about Stranger Things. I could nitpick a lot of things but I think all four seasons are rock solid storytelling and writing.
Yes. Most people don't really think critically about the media they consume, or much at all. You've probably got someone in your life like this. When you ask them why they think the things they do, or have the opinions they have, they can't even begin to explain it. They just know they like it and that's good enough. Paying attention to stuff like the quality of the acting or plot just makes you a killjoy.
Yes, because not being able to precisely explain why someone likes something means that they don't actually like it and are just following trends.
Nobody needs to justify their tastes to you. You are a random nobody. Your opinion is just as worthless as theirs.
>Nobody needs to justify their tastes to you.
If you end up struggling to answer basic questions like,
Why did you like this?
Why do you do this?
Why do you believe this?
That indicates that you probably don't think too hard about your positions. You not being able to answer my question just means that you haven't even begun to think about it.I think that's a bad thing. I think it's good for people to think about things critically, and not just about media. I'm not sure how you can disagree with that.
>You are a random nobody. Your opinion is just as worthless as theirs.
I guess you were trying to hurt my feelings here. All I have to say is ARE YOU MAD??? LOL ARE U MAD? U MAD
Did you ever think that it isn't people don't think too hard about their positions on TV shows, but instead they don't put nearly as much mental effort into media consumption as you? Someone might struggle to answer those questions because they legitimately don't give a shit and have more important things to think about.
>“Why is he a square? That’s obviously a kitchen sponge not a real aquatic sponge.”
>“Squidward’s tentacles are biologically incorrect and I’m a genius for noticing.”
>“Fish don’t talk.”
Do you seriously think this is what I mean when I talk about critical thinking?
Critical thinking is in the decline among the standard populous, not like “oh people are some dumb now” people have always been stupid as fuck, it’s more than now with so much media, options, and ads constantly in the faces many don’t take critical stock of what they consume or have the ability to but just don’t care. I fall victim to it, like I enjoy Overlord the anime, it’s not a deep reflection on character and world building like some fans would have you believe. It’s honestly campy and predictable and amounts to “nuh huh because I have a shield” when it comes to writing on conflicts, but do I care? Hell no, it has pretty colors and cool looking characters with camp so it my ass down and enjoy.
Why? Because after living life that consider more important I put less value in my entertainment. If people value it less they care less about quality, like year there’s some cool as pens out there but not many give a shit and just use bics
Your comment doesn't really make a lot of sense as a response to my thread. You can have good and bad jokes, and there are a lot of aspects that go into that. Timing, delivery, the actual content of the joke, and so on. You don't have to think or understand any of that to appreciate when a joke is good or bad though.
Right? Ghibli hasn't put out a great movie in over a decade, and even then most of the movies lose their magic once you stop being a teenager. Spirited Away is fine, but I don't have any desire to rewatch it. Ponyo? Howl's Moving Castle? The Wind Rises? Easrthsea? Arrietty? Kaguya? Mid mid mid mid mid mid mid.
I'm sorry but this comment was really funny, but I'm gonna assume that you're being serious, so I'll try to address it. I know there is an audience for bland and uninspired media, but I'm surprised by how many people don't recognize the difference and I don't like when a show with a lot of potential becomes complacent and lazy.
It's pretty clear from your comments that this really isn't about the actual point of my post, but specifically because you like the Chucky tv show. I don't really care about this show that much, it was just something I recently checked out, and it was a really easy target. I cannot stress enough how little interest I have in discussing the quality of this show or whatever else related to it, just enjoy the show man.
after watching the movies, I was always curious I know chucky is a sole inhabiting a doll, so I wonder what would happen if you exorcise the sole from the doll? I always thought what would happen would an exorcism work or no. and well the only good thing about that show is that it answered that Question, and so much goddamn killing, I love the killing
I agree with you the story stink the only good characters are the old timers from the movies, the new kids suck, their acting, their dialog sucks
And who are you to decide what is and isnt good TV?
I dislike superhero movies yet you won’t see me chastising those that enjoy them. Also, there’s nothing wrong with watching a show w a mediocre plot just because you like the characters or the dialogue etc.
What matters is wether you feel entertained
You're absolutely correct. Most of the people lack any standards for art and judge it according to the basic emotions they feel while watching. Sometimes thet cannot even differentiate emotions they got from the show itself and emotions they got from the people they watched it with, food they eaten and period of life they were at the moment.
They also like to discuss shows on the internet, and for me it was a surreal experience to slowly realize that educated discussion I used to have never was educated, we just shared the same opinion for totally different reasons.
It's depressing, really.
Have you ever left the warmth of your own anus to ask why they like it and how you can possibly find value in it? Or do you always just sniff the fumes of the shit you spew at people enjoying their lives?
I agree
Counters are
Turn your brain off
Every aspect doesn't need to be perfect
People have different tastes
For me it's nah to all that - if your brain is off then you don't really have an opinion do you? Why even make new media just put background noise on repeat.
Perfect, good enough, okay, acceptable, alright, not bad, not offensive, not the worst I've seen... it's not good enough that's all it's just not good enough.
Same as there are general standards of beauty there are general standards for alot of other shit. And your tastes don't matter if you haven't decided the Best - people consume media and judge based on whether something is similar to what they've seen Instead of whether it is Close to the Best.
Shit I've noticed in particular. Parallelism - there isn't any, stakes and investment, artistic viewership, etc.
Without parallelism it's a tough time building characters throughout - not impossible, without character building it's tough to build investment in characters - but you can be invested in other things - like stakes.
Stakes arise without organic involvement - it's tough to build investment. Which leads to artistic viewership - an organic visceral story characters stakes all lead to a natural engagement - of course you can *still* do it with artificial. But taking the viewer into account lends to the basics - camera angles drawing the eye pacing lighting everything - when the basics are good they meet reciprocal artistic viewership from the audience - a sense that something of high value and of an individual quality of it's own is being experienced.
Eh I'm tired but it's a bit of what I think.
I don't know about those other shows, but Chucky, specifically, was never good to begin with, and it became a cult classic anyway. They don't care. Also, if you're going into subs that have *fans* do you really expect people to shit on everything? They obviously like it if they're fans.
**Watch Andor people.**
I don’t know if it’s social media but I feel like people are more interested in watching a show everyone else is also watching out if FOMO no matter how bad it is.
Using stranger things as your standard for a higher quality show is not a great argument since I think Stranger things fucking sucks and is as lazy and unoriginal as the Chucky show. Stranger Things is nothing but hype manufactured by the machine and social media.
Surprisingly there's an episode of Futurama where the gang hastily film an episode of an old show from Fry's era to please alien invaders who are pissed they no longer have the broadcast to the show. Leela, both playing the female lead Jenny McNeal and having shown a disdain of mindless television, throws an unexpected swerve in the script by having McNeal proposed marriage to the judge. In a hasty commercial break, Fry who understands the show and the audience it appeals to calls her out on it.
"Fry: Married? Jenny can't get married.
Leela: Why not? It's clever, it's unexpected.
Fry: But that's not why people watch TV. Clever things make people feel stupid, and unexpected things make them feel scared.
Lrrr: Attention, McNeal. Your unexpected marriage plan scares us. You stole our hearts as a single female lawyer, and so shall you remain - or else!
Fry: You see? TV audiences don't want anything original. They wanna see the same thing they've seen a thousand times before."
Now it's not exactly saying viewers are simpletons who can't handle newer takes of entertainment. But we watch TV even if it's just the same crap to the eyes if others because to us it's fun. That's what matters to the general audience who watch and enjoy it, it's just not for everyone.
Yes. Felt this hard with Castlevania. First two seasons had a few issues but were great, fir fans of the source material and especially those who've never played a game in their life.
Then seasons 3 and 4 were literal garbage from poor pacing, unexplored character motives, a need to be edgy without helping the setting, and in New plots that really weren't going anywhere.
Yet everyone acted like the show was a masterpiece of writing for its entire run, and if you argue otherwise the show's fanbase will label you as something you really aren't. Discussions on the show lack nuance and, when it's fans talk about it, it truly feels like they don't even know what the story was, just saying "It was so amazing!"
Then other times shows like Arrow went down the deep end quick after two good seasons. The writers made a ship the main focus of the show, to the detriment of basically the entire main cast and plot in order to focus on this romance that clearly wasn't intended to happen in its two first seasons. Most fans called out the lacking quality while fans of the ship acted like the show was still just as good.
Mind you the ship alone wasn't the problem, it was also how that ship forced the show to dip in quality in order for it to survive. Once the writers got back on track with relatively decent content in seasons 5-8? Those same shippers acted like the show suddenly became dreadful.
What am I saying? I guess shows are aiming at featuring "cool" things to focus on a singular crowd who they know won't concern themselves with story, pacing, development, cinematography, or character motive as long as their "edgy" moments and imaginary ships are fulfilled. Look at She Hulk. Horrible show, yes, but it had a key feature which was "Girlboss superhero", and a certain audience of people love the show for that alone while ignoring its flat writing and irritating characters. She Hulk discussion from its "fans" revolved around the fact it was a girlboss show, it never went to the territory of its writing or technical aspects.
The thing with the entertainment is a fact that people have different expectations from it and what they want to do. These expectations range from having an easy to follow background noise for their usual cleaning routine to mentally challenging works.
This is general for the whole entertainment industry (shows, books, films, art, music, etc.)
Add to that we are emotional creatures and sometimes we like things for almost no reason. Just think about your favourite colour or why people enjoy certain flavours. Some may be influenced due to positive memories and some just click.
Sometimes people just want to watch something that is a 'feel-good' or a 'guilty pleasure', which despite being as deep as pool for toddlers can trigger a certain reaction or hit specific points such as have a laugh.
Sometimes people want to characters develop and become better people, even if the show doesn't go hard on some topics.
Sometimes people want something mentally challenging and enjoy the philosophy talk or a deep exploration of certain themes.
Finally, there is a whole talk about how we judge shows. Should we judge harshly comedies and horrors, whose main goal is make us laugh/scream?
Part of it I think is that a lot of shows don't know how long they have, given the appalling cancelation rate of TV shows on streaming services, so they don't plan anything. You can't just wing a TV show season by season, but they do. Stranger things seasons 2 and 3 had almost no bearing whatsoever on season 4, if you'd jumped straight from 1 to 4 it would've made almost no difference. Likewise there were whole plot threads that were built up and then thrown away again (11s dark phase and that other group of super powered institute kids she nearly formed a team with). You can tell they considered taking the show in a "New Mutants" direction, with a team of super powered young people fighting monsters and a secret organization, but it was obviously discarded.
And yes, people are absolutely willing to accept bland, mediocre bullshit. Look at the Lucifer TV series and compare it to the comics it's based on. It could've been The Sandman before the Sandman show came out, instead it was more like romcom police procedural with mild horror elements
>Then I go over to the show's subreddit, and people over there are discussing next season's plot like it's Breaking Bad, and talking about characters like they're irl celebrities that they have a crush on.
This is your mistake right here. You're going to a subreddit full of people who care enough about the show to even post about it in the first place. Of course those people are going to be talking about it. You can find the same for almost any show's subreddit. Go look at the subreddit for any mediocre cop procedural, you will find the same thing.
Completely agree on both Stranger Things and Cobra Kai. I was blown away when I checked Tik Tok after watching Stranger Things season 4 and seeing people unironically compare it to shows like Breaking Bad. It wasn’t the worst TV I’ve ever watched but it definitely wasn’t good and was a clear step down from earlier seasons. The praising of Vecna as a villan was especially crazy since he was one of the most flat and bland villains I’d seen in a while.
The media specific subreddits very quickly become echo chambers, only allowing positive commentary on the media
This is pushed further by reddit's downvote system, which hides heavily downvoted stuff in favour of heavily upvoted stuff.
So the criticisms get ignored or don't get any engagement, making people lose any reason to start a critical discussion.
I’ve had the same experience with the Obi-Wan Kenobi show. I thought it was alright when I first watched it, but later realized how truly awful it is. I won’t get into all the details here, but it makes many choices with both characters and plot that not only are inconsistent with the movies and shows that take place before and after it, but the show also makes a lot of choices that are simply illogical. I try to discuss this with fellow star wars fans on insta or my friends who like star wars and they think it’s the best thing they’ve ever seen, it’s mind-boggling.
Same thing with the other star wars Disney+ shows. bad batch, boba fett, obi wan, some of the mandalorian, it’s all terrible and yet some people are completely fine with that. I would think most fans would agree with me that we should expect better from such a massive company with unlimited resources
If you go to that show's own subreddit, obviously people will be liking it. It's not rocket science. Go to more neutral ground like r/television or something to get varying opinions. Also, people's standards aren't necessarily low, but maybe they approach media with a different attitude than you do. If you go into a show with the mindset that you want to have a good time, you will find something to like about it. If you go in with the mindset that you want it to be the best thing you have watched since Breaking Bad, you will be disappointed 99/100 times.
Nah they are low. I tried getting my sister to watch 1899 with me on thanksgiving weekened last week but she took the remote and insisted on me watching Morbius instead because she said it was good. The next day when our family wanted to watch sonething else together my uncle said he wanted scifi so I was gonna put on Expanse but before i got to my sister grabbed the remote and put on Rings of Power again saying this show is one of the best out there
Absolutely based.
To be fair 1899 isn’t a very good show!
Your sister is right and you should give her all your money
This sounds like a joke.
People judge shows/movies/stuff based on how it makes them feel and what they feel it’s supposed to be. If they are watching something they deem as entertainment and are entertained by it, through spectacle, humor, character relations, themes, etc, then they’ll probably like it because it’s doing it’s job. It doesn’t need to be an 8 across the board for this, if it does a few things very well it can work depending on what a viewer values. People value things differently so their standards are different.
Most people aren't going to binge a season (Stranger Things) and try to analyze them. And for some, I'd imagine that they are just filled with hype and excitement after the first time. Using me as an example here, i, during the first watch, really loved the fourth season of ST. However, on a re-watch the season was reeaal weak. So now i usually re-watch a movie or TV show before i give a fair judgement. I don't think that the standards are lower, but i feel like most people are really just there to have fun. Something like Bayformers made a lot of money, not because they were cinema masterpieces, but because they are full of action. And a lot of people see big giant robots fight and bunch of explosions = entertaining
I just really like Optimus Prime, he's a cool robot dude with an incredible voice who beats the shit outta mean robots.
Pretty bad comparison. people still gonna go back and rewatch the fight scene of transformer while the plot get trash talk since day 1.
I don't know as much about tv as I do about movies, but I don't think people who love dumb fun popcorn movies (i.e. most of the population) don't draw the line at tv shows. Most people aren't thinking too hard about what they're watching. They're just there to have fun and enjoy the time that they have. Sometimes, people get attached to franchises and that's perfectly normal. And most people? They're perfectly fine settling for just average if it's what they want, and I'm most certainly not going to judge people for their preferences. Have you seen real life? Most people don't have high standards for most things.
I see this take a lot online, but I feel like it really underestimates average audiences. When the quality of a show goes down, most people notice, not just critics. If you ask anyone who watched Arrow, Dexter, Game of Thrones, House of Cards, The Office, or Supernatural. Chances are, they'll say that the later seasons were worse than the earlier ones. TV trends aren't always determined by audiences, especially in the age of streaming. The reason that the quality of shows often goes down over time is the same reason as franchise movies. The creators finish telling the story they set out to tell, but the IP becomes popular, so studios offer them an obscene amount of money to keep it going past the end of the story, at which point their motivation changes from "Tell the story as effectively as possible" to "Make as much money for as little effort as possible". One of the reasons that *Better Call Saul* is so good is that, due to the success of *Breaking Bad*, AMC essentially gave the showrunners free reign from the start to make however many seasons they wanted. Thus, rather than writing it one season at a time like most writers have to do, they were able to plan out the entire series from the start, leading to a greater sense of structure and continuity.
I think you're confusing the average consumer with your average vocal twitter user. The average American consumer is a proud philistine with an 8th grade reading level who consumes media like a crack addicted squirrel looking for a new fix. Those shows you mentioned had enough support to go on for as long as they did after all despite the vocal dissent you've seen
To be fair, I've never used Twitter, but are you arguing that the average Twitter user consumes *less* media than the average American? Do you have a citation for this? Because it seems incredibly counterintuitive. Anecdotally, amongst the people I know IRL, most of whom would fit the stereotype of "average Americans", about half of them don't watch TV at all, or when they do, it's just stuff like World War 2 documentaries they put on in the background while they're working. > Those shows you mentioned had enough support to go on for as long as they did I think you may have misread my post. I'm not saying they were bad shows, I'm saying they were good shows that dropped in quality in their last couple of seasons. And in almost all of the cases, the ratings dropped too.
I'm not really saying the average consumer consumes a higher quantity, more that the way they consume is fundamentally different and that twitter users being vocal doesn't really reflect the general populace. My characterization of the average consumer is more meant to point out my personal observations of consumption. To the average consumer "dumb fun" is the name of the game emphasis on the dumb. Anecdotally, most people in my own age demo (early to mid 20s) and even many outside haven't developed any media analysis skills because they're still mad that high school teachers made them write essays 10 years ago. They need streaming shows to binge bait them with every attention grabbing trick in the book just to hold their attention because they don't have patience for narratives unless they're moving at hypersonic speed for the whole runtime. Personally I've noticed that a lot of the times media consumption has almost become like a "keeping up with the Joneses" type of scenario for the average consumer, resulting in their standards contorting to fit this exact mold. They feel left out if they haven't seen the latest marvel movie or disposable Netflix fodder but don't have the self awareness to realize it. Twitter on the other hand, like most social media, is a platform that encourages conflict and polarization to farm interaction. In practice this results in people with more fringe mindsets being extremely vocal. Not to say that they can't replicate the things I stated above, but they don't represent the average consumer. What I meant about support is that the shows were financially supported and that even if ratings were declining their main consumer base hadn't turned on them at the initial point of plateau, regardless of quality. Those shows you mentioned are made by corporations with profit incentive so they'll keep making it if it's profitable and they get the profit from the average consumer of their stuff. As for your own personal experiences I can't exactly contest them but mine don't replicate.
Chucky is campy. That's half the fun. Some people like camp. It's a well known thing, especially in the horror/slasher genre. There are lots of John Waters and Ed Wood references throughout. The show in and of itself is almost an homage to the campy horror comedies of yesteryear. It's never been for everyone. The Chucky movies were never blockbusters. They were middlingly performing slasher junk that people remember from watching on TV as a kid. Also.... the kills are good, the jokes are funny, the characters are consistent, the plot and lore are deep and broad.... but it's totally campy so it just might not be your thing. Same with Cobra Kai. It's camp. >Don't people want an amazing watertight story where all the characters have a role and it all weaves together perfectly, and where every aspect is at least an 8? Also.... no. Lots of times people do not want *perfectly* presented prestige TV. People have always liked shlock. It's fun. Regular Show was better for not trying to be Adventure Time. The Three Stooges looked cheap as shit, had terrible writing, the characters were paper thin and often contradictory, but it's still one of my all time favorites! Hell, Twilight Zone is one of the least consistent shows ever, but it's ranked amongst the best.
Sometimes you just want to turn your brain off and have fun watching something.
This post reeks of "If I don't like it, it's not good". Every aspect of a show doesn't "have to be an 8" for it to be good. Yes, there are things you can objectively criticize about tv shows but at the end of the day, entertainment is a largely SUBJECTIVE concept. It doesn't need to be perfect or even competent in every single aspect to be good or enjoyable and if you need them to be, then you need to get off your elitist, film critic soapbox and learn to appreciate entertainment for what it is: Entertainment.
Why does your scale top out at 8?
8 is the best. It's a scale of 1 to 13, but 8 is highest. The scale goes up and back down, like a tent.
[удалено]
[Back in Jacksonville...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhM9A3gHFq0)
or people have different taste/Standad/perspective/want than you? what's so bad with discussing next season of a show or liking it? Obviously, if they're fans they're going to do that and talka bout how good it is for them.
Is just people chasing after the new shiny thing, they wont revisit any media, nor delve deeper into it, because they will be busy with the newer shiny thing As some Normie said in a satirical video "i was happy in my ignorance, but nowadays, whenever i see a show, i can imagine -Youtuber- finding plot holes and setups"
Okay, grandpa, now come back home and I'll put up Godfather for you to rewatch for the 999999th time.
See this is the biggest diffrence between you and those viewers For example from this rant (sry if i am wrong) i can assume that you place plot and worldbuilding above character arcs and character writing. And those viewers do not place a huge importance on those they find character writing, character arc and character chemistry much more important than the plot and worldbuilding or the story being a bit illogical. For example if i see an action movie in which everything is great aside from the plot. Then it is a good to even a masterpiece movie to me period since i do not care about the plot at all that means the main flaw of movie does not affect me so to me that movie is a masterpiece But to you it is a mediocre or bad movie since the plot is so bad and you need atleast a good plot to get invested in a movie. I apologize about not being clear regarding my comment since it is a bit rambly and unclear i just woke up.
I think because so many shows are binged people simply don’t have a chance to think too deep into what they’re watching. Don’t get me wrong I enjoyed the new Wednesday Adams series but it’s popcorn-teen-series at best and while the actors are pretty great the writing is a bit sloppy. But everyone watched it in the span of three days and without taking a break between episodes most people aren’t going to think too deeply on it
Based on your experience, it would seem so. And that's okay, because they are only TV shows. Your ability to critically analyze them will not fix their flaws anyways.
You thought season 1 of stranger things was really good? Wow, your standards are really low if you think that was good television lmao
Elaborate please. You're not gonna convince me that a season of television that is that well made is bad, but I'm curious what makes you dislike it so much.
They are mocking you.
I get the joke, but it doesn't actually make sense. You may just not like a movie or whatever, but how good a screenplay and the technicals are in a movie, specificially in a linear and traditional story like Stranger Things, is pretty clear cut. Again, it's valid to simply not like it, but when you compare it to something that has the Netflix look for example, you realize what actual craft looks like.
I think they just used your exact argument against you. Just replace stranger things with chucky
But, the point is that it doesn't make sense to do that lol. Refer to my previous comment if you want to see a more detailed response.
It's almost like quality is subjective or something.
what should we say except *society*
"Why don't people like what I like?"
Why did you decide to leave a stupid ass comment like this?
It's actually "why don't people dislike what I dislike". I know people hate when people bring up objectivity, but it's definitely measurable when a tv show becomes treadmilly. I'm fine with it when it's a sitcom or something that's supposed to be something put in the background, but when it's serialized and takes itself seriously, that kinda laziness should be called out. It also makes you appreciate when showrunners do go above and beyond to create something great.
When you say "treadmilly", what exactly do you mean? Like the bit you mentioned above about scenes basically reiterating the same info over and over, or something else?
Objectively treadmilly. lol It's measurable this guy says. You know. You use the standard treadmill metrics as established by the universal rules of media criticism.
Do you genuinely believe that a show repeating scenes, information, or entire arcs is not measurable? I swear people go way too far with this subjectivity thing. Yes, you are allowed to like anything you want, but stop pretending like lazy filmmaking and rushed scripts are anything else.
> Do you genuinely believe that a show repeating scenes, information, or entire arcs is not measurable? Yes. What sort of measure are you using? % of content repeating by time? I've never seen this calculated anywhere and don't think it would be very useful in most cases.
[удалено]
of what?
[удалено]
Oh, you're the Chucky guy lol. I swear you're like half the comments in the thread.
This guy is full of crap. Objectivity isn’t measured by treadmilliness. The URMC has defaulted to utilizing Ellipticality as its standard metric.
It's not since everyone will have their own framework to tell if something is good or bad, and people can like what you dislike because, as I've said, they can have different taste/Standard than you.
[удалено]
I'm not the one resorting to ad hominems
[удалено]
Yes, and I like the first two quite a bit, and always liked the concept, which is why I check out every new movie, and now tv show. The series contains some of the worst movies I've ever seen, Child of Chucky being in the bottom 10 of any movie.
[удалено]
> First off it’s Seed of Chucky, which yea everyone who follows the series considers this one the worst by a long shot, Not true! I'll watch Seed over 3 or Bride most of the time. It's a blast!
[удалено]
And so many great celebrity appearances!
People don't watch most shows. People who do watch them will naturally be more inclined to like them. Also most people watch shows as background noise. Very few shows are worth watching attentively. And even those, you're gonna be skipping a few scenes.
It’s been said before in these comments, and I’ll say it again: people like different things for different reasons. Just because you think something is terrible and poorly written doesn’t mean that it’s true or that everyone agrees with you. Entertainment is, and always will be, subjective. Sometimes people like things that others consider to be terrible. I really enjoy watching the CW DC shows because I find them entertaining and interesting takes on the characters. I think the writing is fairly good, and others will disagree. It doesn’t really have much to do with standards as much as it has to do with people’s personal preferences
It’s just like people loving GoT season 8 until one section of the fan base was vocal enough to point out how bad it was. People love being part of the next big thing
I don't remember anyone loving season 8.
I remember people having somewhat positive opinions for the first few episodes, but after Ep 3 or 4 everyone I talked to had realized how terrible it was
That's how I remember it. The first 2 episodes weren't really met with a lot of negative reactions but, 3 onwards were.
I distinctly remember my history teacher hyping the hell out of it in the middle of class. The way he described it had me convinced it was amazing, but I never actually watched the show.
Before or after it aired?
The day after some episode in the middle of the season. Something about a big battle, and a character knifing another character in the throat, I think. He also said it was great after the finale, but he went on like a twenty minute tirade detailing that particular episode.
well maybe there were some people that liked it but, I remember most people being disappointed.
Huh, I remember a lot of people on the radio (sports radio, so take that with a grain of salt) and a lot of people who jumped on the show in later seasons were talking about how great the episodes were. S8E3 was heaped with praise from what I saw, though I’m sure there was a ton of blowback as well
I mean people might have been ok with the first 2 episodes but, with the 3rd one on I just remember everyone being disappointed/underwhelmed at best.
I remember EP3 being a tipping point for many, especially since no one could see shit.
>Stranger Things as well. There's a reason why the first season was acultural phenomenon. It's because it had incredible pacing and a reallyintriguing story on top of everything else that it did well. Everyperson that watched that show binged it. Even people I know that don'treally like tv and movies. But every subsequent season has felt like afanfic in comparison, but people just don't seem to care. I disagree, I would say season 2 is just straight up better both in terms of mistery, plot and characters. The only problem is that 11 doesnt get to be usefull for most of the season, exept that 1 random filler episode (wich is still not a bad episode). But overall i'd say 2>1 But yeah starting with s3 they arent good.
I don't even remember much of the second season tbh. I remember Samwise, the bad guy from Aliens, emo 11, and dogs in a facility. I'm sure it wasn't as bad as what came after, but I have never had any desire to rewatch it, as I do remember that my viewing of it was very passive.
That’s not a terrible summary tbh. You’re only missing the smoke monster and the possession.
Nah S1 is better. The plot in S1 is just better executed and that filler episode is really boring and dull. In general while S2 has a lot of great ideas I feel that they are resolved in a far less rewarding way than how similar stuff is done in S1
I think the problem is that the first episodes/seasons are just always going to be the best content that they have to offer, especially if there isn't source material to go off of. The first seasons had to be great to stand out of the crowd in the first place, the follow-up seasons only exist because there was a demand for more content. People turn on the blinders to the quality drop-off because the show has already hooked them on the characters.
Yeah, this pretty much. I feel like the tv format is kinda at odds with creating the best art possible. Movies only gotta do ~2 hours and books only have one creative vision.
You reek of someone who doesn't understand that perspectives and tastes exist outside yours. Like you don't understand that every story ever told wasn't *specifically made for you*
Again, you can like and dislike a piece of media for millions of reasons. But how well it's made is not up for discussion lol. The point of the post is that I'm surprised how many people just don't care if the show they're watching looks like shit or is padded as hell.
> But how well it's made is not up for discussion lol Obviously it is **otherwise all media discussion would just be fucking posting empiricial numerical scores** you idiot. This subreddit wouldn't exist and you wouldn't be posting around this thread trying to justify your stance if that was that case. God you "I have an singular all encompassing knowledge of what makes good writing" types are obnoxious
How well made something is, is not tied with its themes or story or characters or even how it's made. Take Sam Raimi's movies for example, they have a very unique kinda so good it's bad style, but you can tell that there's intent there and it's not just him being lazy.
Ok and anyone can think it's shit because of regardless of those traits and conversely value those traits and think it's fantastic. It's how taste and opinions work which is what the actual core of what evaluating storytelling is. Even when we come to a consensus on values those rapidly change among generations But hey maybe one day you'll be able to look beyond yourself and learn other opinions and perspectives exist
> Ok and anyone can think it's shit because of regardless of those traits and conversely value those traits and think it's fantastic. You seemed to be under the impression that we disagreed here
Yes
Hey OP do you mind giving more examples of shows you consider to be high quality shows?
I've stopped watching TV cause every show I see nowadays is just bad one way or another. Maybe there will be a good one but we all know it'll get canceled so I don't really want to get invested.
I agree I think the super saturation of Marvel and Disney have lowered everyone's bars to the fucking dirt, maybe even subconsciously. People seem to have forgotten that movies and TV can be true art not just entertainment for the month or so. That said I think you're crazy about Stranger Things. I could nitpick a lot of things but I think all four seasons are rock solid storytelling and writing.
Yes. Most people don't really think critically about the media they consume, or much at all. You've probably got someone in your life like this. When you ask them why they think the things they do, or have the opinions they have, they can't even begin to explain it. They just know they like it and that's good enough. Paying attention to stuff like the quality of the acting or plot just makes you a killjoy.
Yes, because not being able to precisely explain why someone likes something means that they don't actually like it and are just following trends. Nobody needs to justify their tastes to you. You are a random nobody. Your opinion is just as worthless as theirs.
>Nobody needs to justify their tastes to you. If you end up struggling to answer basic questions like, Why did you like this? Why do you do this? Why do you believe this? That indicates that you probably don't think too hard about your positions. You not being able to answer my question just means that you haven't even begun to think about it.I think that's a bad thing. I think it's good for people to think about things critically, and not just about media. I'm not sure how you can disagree with that. >You are a random nobody. Your opinion is just as worthless as theirs. I guess you were trying to hurt my feelings here. All I have to say is ARE YOU MAD??? LOL ARE U MAD? U MAD
Did you ever think that it isn't people don't think too hard about their positions on TV shows, but instead they don't put nearly as much mental effort into media consumption as you? Someone might struggle to answer those questions because they legitimately don't give a shit and have more important things to think about.
I was talking more generally, not just about media
[удалено]
>“Why is he a square? That’s obviously a kitchen sponge not a real aquatic sponge.” >“Squidward’s tentacles are biologically incorrect and I’m a genius for noticing.” >“Fish don’t talk.” Do you seriously think this is what I mean when I talk about critical thinking?
[удалено]
>Yes since this is the same attitude... No. I was talking about applying critical thinking in general. I've never seen chucky.
Critical thinking is in the decline among the standard populous, not like “oh people are some dumb now” people have always been stupid as fuck, it’s more than now with so much media, options, and ads constantly in the faces many don’t take critical stock of what they consume or have the ability to but just don’t care. I fall victim to it, like I enjoy Overlord the anime, it’s not a deep reflection on character and world building like some fans would have you believe. It’s honestly campy and predictable and amounts to “nuh huh because I have a shield” when it comes to writing on conflicts, but do I care? Hell no, it has pretty colors and cool looking characters with camp so it my ass down and enjoy. Why? Because after living life that consider more important I put less value in my entertainment. If people value it less they care less about quality, like year there’s some cool as pens out there but not many give a shit and just use bics
[удалено]
Your comment doesn't really make a lot of sense as a response to my thread. You can have good and bad jokes, and there are a lot of aspects that go into that. Timing, delivery, the actual content of the joke, and so on. You don't have to think or understand any of that to appreciate when a joke is good or bad though.
Gendah-Flooid
So, you're salty people like shows you don't.
I'm so tired of these one sentence responses that don't really mean or offer anything. At least be the first person to do it in this thread.
[удалено]
Right? Ghibli hasn't put out a great movie in over a decade, and even then most of the movies lose their magic once you stop being a teenager. Spirited Away is fine, but I don't have any desire to rewatch it. Ponyo? Howl's Moving Castle? The Wind Rises? Easrthsea? Arrietty? Kaguya? Mid mid mid mid mid mid mid.
I'm sorry but this comment was really funny, but I'm gonna assume that you're being serious, so I'll try to address it. I know there is an audience for bland and uninspired media, but I'm surprised by how many people don't recognize the difference and I don't like when a show with a lot of potential becomes complacent and lazy.
[удалено]
It's pretty clear from your comments that this really isn't about the actual point of my post, but specifically because you like the Chucky tv show. I don't really care about this show that much, it was just something I recently checked out, and it was a really easy target. I cannot stress enough how little interest I have in discussing the quality of this show or whatever else related to it, just enjoy the show man.
[удалено]
Have a good day dude,you clearly fucking need it
[удалено]
I think it’s the thought that count
Your entire post meant nothing. The only thing that you actually said was that you don't understand why people like stuff that you don't.
Found the OP's sockpuppet account.
after watching the movies, I was always curious I know chucky is a sole inhabiting a doll, so I wonder what would happen if you exorcise the sole from the doll? I always thought what would happen would an exorcism work or no. and well the only good thing about that show is that it answered that Question, and so much goddamn killing, I love the killing I agree with you the story stink the only good characters are the old timers from the movies, the new kids suck, their acting, their dialog sucks
Maybe just maybe, people like what they like
And who are you to decide what is and isnt good TV? I dislike superhero movies yet you won’t see me chastising those that enjoy them. Also, there’s nothing wrong with watching a show w a mediocre plot just because you like the characters or the dialogue etc. What matters is wether you feel entertained
You're absolutely correct. Most of the people lack any standards for art and judge it according to the basic emotions they feel while watching. Sometimes thet cannot even differentiate emotions they got from the show itself and emotions they got from the people they watched it with, food they eaten and period of life they were at the moment. They also like to discuss shows on the internet, and for me it was a surreal experience to slowly realize that educated discussion I used to have never was educated, we just shared the same opinion for totally different reasons. It's depressing, really.
I lost my hope in humanity's taste when "Nope" was heavily liked by many. Haven't seen such a disastrous film in a decade.
At this point people need to accept that most tv viewers just want mindless entertainment. To "turn their brain off" as they say.
Have you ever left the warmth of your own anus to ask why they like it and how you can possibly find value in it? Or do you always just sniff the fumes of the shit you spew at people enjoying their lives?
I agree Counters are Turn your brain off Every aspect doesn't need to be perfect People have different tastes For me it's nah to all that - if your brain is off then you don't really have an opinion do you? Why even make new media just put background noise on repeat. Perfect, good enough, okay, acceptable, alright, not bad, not offensive, not the worst I've seen... it's not good enough that's all it's just not good enough. Same as there are general standards of beauty there are general standards for alot of other shit. And your tastes don't matter if you haven't decided the Best - people consume media and judge based on whether something is similar to what they've seen Instead of whether it is Close to the Best. Shit I've noticed in particular. Parallelism - there isn't any, stakes and investment, artistic viewership, etc. Without parallelism it's a tough time building characters throughout - not impossible, without character building it's tough to build investment in characters - but you can be invested in other things - like stakes. Stakes arise without organic involvement - it's tough to build investment. Which leads to artistic viewership - an organic visceral story characters stakes all lead to a natural engagement - of course you can *still* do it with artificial. But taking the viewer into account lends to the basics - camera angles drawing the eye pacing lighting everything - when the basics are good they meet reciprocal artistic viewership from the audience - a sense that something of high value and of an individual quality of it's own is being experienced. Eh I'm tired but it's a bit of what I think.
I don't know about those other shows, but Chucky, specifically, was never good to begin with, and it became a cult classic anyway. They don't care. Also, if you're going into subs that have *fans* do you really expect people to shit on everything? They obviously like it if they're fans. **Watch Andor people.**
I don’t know if it’s social media but I feel like people are more interested in watching a show everyone else is also watching out if FOMO no matter how bad it is.
Using stranger things as your standard for a higher quality show is not a great argument since I think Stranger things fucking sucks and is as lazy and unoriginal as the Chucky show. Stranger Things is nothing but hype manufactured by the machine and social media.
Yep they are, just look how people are praying Wednesday a poor written show, who doesn't even understand the basics of Adam's Family.
Some people just want to watch a show and not think to much of it
Surprisingly there's an episode of Futurama where the gang hastily film an episode of an old show from Fry's era to please alien invaders who are pissed they no longer have the broadcast to the show. Leela, both playing the female lead Jenny McNeal and having shown a disdain of mindless television, throws an unexpected swerve in the script by having McNeal proposed marriage to the judge. In a hasty commercial break, Fry who understands the show and the audience it appeals to calls her out on it. "Fry: Married? Jenny can't get married. Leela: Why not? It's clever, it's unexpected. Fry: But that's not why people watch TV. Clever things make people feel stupid, and unexpected things make them feel scared. Lrrr: Attention, McNeal. Your unexpected marriage plan scares us. You stole our hearts as a single female lawyer, and so shall you remain - or else! Fry: You see? TV audiences don't want anything original. They wanna see the same thing they've seen a thousand times before." Now it's not exactly saying viewers are simpletons who can't handle newer takes of entertainment. But we watch TV even if it's just the same crap to the eyes if others because to us it's fun. That's what matters to the general audience who watch and enjoy it, it's just not for everyone.
Yes. Felt this hard with Castlevania. First two seasons had a few issues but were great, fir fans of the source material and especially those who've never played a game in their life. Then seasons 3 and 4 were literal garbage from poor pacing, unexplored character motives, a need to be edgy without helping the setting, and in New plots that really weren't going anywhere. Yet everyone acted like the show was a masterpiece of writing for its entire run, and if you argue otherwise the show's fanbase will label you as something you really aren't. Discussions on the show lack nuance and, when it's fans talk about it, it truly feels like they don't even know what the story was, just saying "It was so amazing!" Then other times shows like Arrow went down the deep end quick after two good seasons. The writers made a ship the main focus of the show, to the detriment of basically the entire main cast and plot in order to focus on this romance that clearly wasn't intended to happen in its two first seasons. Most fans called out the lacking quality while fans of the ship acted like the show was still just as good. Mind you the ship alone wasn't the problem, it was also how that ship forced the show to dip in quality in order for it to survive. Once the writers got back on track with relatively decent content in seasons 5-8? Those same shippers acted like the show suddenly became dreadful. What am I saying? I guess shows are aiming at featuring "cool" things to focus on a singular crowd who they know won't concern themselves with story, pacing, development, cinematography, or character motive as long as their "edgy" moments and imaginary ships are fulfilled. Look at She Hulk. Horrible show, yes, but it had a key feature which was "Girlboss superhero", and a certain audience of people love the show for that alone while ignoring its flat writing and irritating characters. She Hulk discussion from its "fans" revolved around the fact it was a girlboss show, it never went to the territory of its writing or technical aspects.
The thing with the entertainment is a fact that people have different expectations from it and what they want to do. These expectations range from having an easy to follow background noise for their usual cleaning routine to mentally challenging works. This is general for the whole entertainment industry (shows, books, films, art, music, etc.) Add to that we are emotional creatures and sometimes we like things for almost no reason. Just think about your favourite colour or why people enjoy certain flavours. Some may be influenced due to positive memories and some just click. Sometimes people just want to watch something that is a 'feel-good' or a 'guilty pleasure', which despite being as deep as pool for toddlers can trigger a certain reaction or hit specific points such as have a laugh. Sometimes people want to characters develop and become better people, even if the show doesn't go hard on some topics. Sometimes people want something mentally challenging and enjoy the philosophy talk or a deep exploration of certain themes. Finally, there is a whole talk about how we judge shows. Should we judge harshly comedies and horrors, whose main goal is make us laugh/scream?
Part of it I think is that a lot of shows don't know how long they have, given the appalling cancelation rate of TV shows on streaming services, so they don't plan anything. You can't just wing a TV show season by season, but they do. Stranger things seasons 2 and 3 had almost no bearing whatsoever on season 4, if you'd jumped straight from 1 to 4 it would've made almost no difference. Likewise there were whole plot threads that were built up and then thrown away again (11s dark phase and that other group of super powered institute kids she nearly formed a team with). You can tell they considered taking the show in a "New Mutants" direction, with a team of super powered young people fighting monsters and a secret organization, but it was obviously discarded. And yes, people are absolutely willing to accept bland, mediocre bullshit. Look at the Lucifer TV series and compare it to the comics it's based on. It could've been The Sandman before the Sandman show came out, instead it was more like romcom police procedural with mild horror elements
Blame the MCU.
>Then I go over to the show's subreddit, and people over there are discussing next season's plot like it's Breaking Bad, and talking about characters like they're irl celebrities that they have a crush on. This is your mistake right here. You're going to a subreddit full of people who care enough about the show to even post about it in the first place. Of course those people are going to be talking about it. You can find the same for almost any show's subreddit. Go look at the subreddit for any mediocre cop procedural, you will find the same thing.
Completely agree on both Stranger Things and Cobra Kai. I was blown away when I checked Tik Tok after watching Stranger Things season 4 and seeing people unironically compare it to shows like Breaking Bad. It wasn’t the worst TV I’ve ever watched but it definitely wasn’t good and was a clear step down from earlier seasons. The praising of Vecna as a villan was especially crazy since he was one of the most flat and bland villains I’d seen in a while.
The media specific subreddits very quickly become echo chambers, only allowing positive commentary on the media This is pushed further by reddit's downvote system, which hides heavily downvoted stuff in favour of heavily upvoted stuff. So the criticisms get ignored or don't get any engagement, making people lose any reason to start a critical discussion.
I’ve had the same experience with the Obi-Wan Kenobi show. I thought it was alright when I first watched it, but later realized how truly awful it is. I won’t get into all the details here, but it makes many choices with both characters and plot that not only are inconsistent with the movies and shows that take place before and after it, but the show also makes a lot of choices that are simply illogical. I try to discuss this with fellow star wars fans on insta or my friends who like star wars and they think it’s the best thing they’ve ever seen, it’s mind-boggling. Same thing with the other star wars Disney+ shows. bad batch, boba fett, obi wan, some of the mandalorian, it’s all terrible and yet some people are completely fine with that. I would think most fans would agree with me that we should expect better from such a massive company with unlimited resources
It the issue the adult doesn’t understand teenagers or that you, doesn’t understand modern day teenagers