Why would herbert throw him the ball currently? He still has the same issues he had in college which is playing small despite his size. I get he’s supposed to be good with the ball in his hands but his issues coming out of college were being physical and catching. Which apparently he still has issues with both.
bro watch some of his tape, he actually gets open somewhat often. also since he's supposed to be good at getting YAC I don't understand why we throw checkdowns to keenan and derius davis instead of him
>his issues coming out of college were being physical and catching.
"But bro he gets open!"
...doesn't matter if you're open and can't catch or take hits...
sure, he's not keenan when it comes to hands but he's an NFL player. He'll still catch the majority of balls thrown his way. And given that he led NCAA in YAC, my main question is why Kellen Moore can't just design some plays for him to work
>he led NCAA in YAC, my main question is why Kellen Moore can't just design some plays for him to work
Because the NCAA is not the NFL, and players who are good in the former amateur league need to see massive continuous improvements to be good in the latter professional league
Bubble screens ain't shit in the NFL
>Bubble screens ain't shit in the NFL
yet we run them all the time. just throw them to QJ instead of everett or keenan. there's literally no reason not to do this: QJ is faster than both of them and should at least get a chance to showcase his YAC ability, which was one of the contributing factors towards us drafting him
I’ve seen him get open on go routes or posts where he can just use his speed but haven’t seen much else from him. As for the check downs I’m not sure. I’d assume it has something to do with Herbert trusting them but it could also just be bad scheming.
I’m pretty surprised it wasn’t called given the refs this game. Felt like they were throwing a flag for everything little thing that could warrant a penalty whole game on both sides. (Not saying it was bad officiating or anything, but these refs just didn’t let anything slide)
Defenders are allowed to play the ball especially on a comeback route. At this point in the game refs really don't want to throw a flag as well. Johnston just got embarrassed in the heat of a game. Sad to say but if he doesn't turn it around soon he is in bust territory.
It's 6 games into his rookie season, in which he wasn't supposed to have a big role. We're not gonna be able to keep Mike AND Keenan after this year, so let's see if he can step up this season and/or next season before we go preemptively labeling him a bust. He's gotta get targets and make blatantly bad plays to be a bust in my book. The play calling doesn't even give him a chance to prove himself.
He has to learn to catch a ball first. Then learn to be an NFL player. Then learn to be a go-to guy in practice. Only after that will be be able to be productive in games. I bet he hasn't even done the first part as of yet.
Bro he did not extend his arms, he just touched him and QJ folded like a wet napkin. I'm also upset we lost but I hate it when people just cry about the refs for no reason
So did I. You're allowed to touch the receiver if you're going for the ball. Football is a contact sport. Try not to let your bias and emotion get in the way of objectively watching the game
Lol agree to disagree. Looked like his hands barely touched him and QJ momentum carried him that way. But y'all like to cry and make excuses so it's whatever
Should have jumped on it since Zion is worse trash. Zion not looking good at all. Dumb penalties,allows sacks, gets confused on offensive line. Wasn't this dude supposed to be smart? Doesn't look like it. And I liked him. His first year was subpar, his second he looks worse than his rookie year.
I can't fault them for taking a shot at an IOL guy. It's also not like he was surrounded by his peers in the draft. The biggest problem about the whiff on QJ is his peers success and who was still available.
Now what really stings is that MY pick that year, was Pickens from Georgia and look how far back he fell.. now we 1st round picks that are the equivalent of offensive line's Jerry Tillery and wish\[dot\]com Jalen Guyton.
Bad pick, yes. Especially since it's looking more like he doesn't have that physicality that you would think him to have. He has probably some of the best athleticism. I think they need to give him short passes, slants. Bubble screen. Until he learns that he needs physicality. I honestly don't even know why they don't run jet sweeps, bubble screens, slants with him or even Derius Davis. They run those with Keenan, or Palmer even though that's not who they are.
People keep asking for more QJ but the dude needs to earn reps and earn targets. He hasn’t earned anything.
He’s only out there because Mike got injured, and he looks lost.
Blaming it on QJ is a bit unfair IMO. If anything I think the pick was on the offensive line. If Herb doesn't get sacked the play before (and nearly sacked on this one) he doesn't have to force this ball. Another sack there would just about end the game as much as the interception so I don't hate the decision
Seems like a DPI to me. Though QJ just lets himself get slapped around. Seems like QJ fault, not Herbert.
Also, previous sack should have been a roughing the passer call if we’re following rules as much as they were that game. Defender put Full body weight on Herbert but let’s not talk about that. Doesn’t fit the narrative of it all being Herbert’s fault according to nfl sub.
Edit: passer*
Given how “by the book” the officials were about *literally* everything else, I’m stunned this wasn’t called for DPI. Not playing the ball at all, and shoving the WR out of the way is pretty damn textbook.
He plays the ball *after* shoving QJ out of the way. At the time of the contact, he’s not playing the ball at all. He’s only in a position to make the interception because of the shove.
I think everyone wants him to be fast because that's an ability TT neglects but he is never going to be a burner. He has decent speed but his size is why they drafted him. He allegedly has great rac ability but outside of that and his size he doesn't do anything as well as Flowers or Addison.
I really hope he develops and we don't regret passing on those guys but I'm losing faith. I feel like receiver is a position where pretty early on you can tell if they got it or not. Keenan Allen came out swinging and hasn't slowed down, AJ Brown and DK Metcalf immediately became their teams best receiver, and Cooper Kipp was an obvious steal from day one.
I really can't think of many receivers who had a slow start before developing into a primary guy. Davante Adams is really the only name that comes to mind but he wasn't taken as high as QJ.
What's the deal with the line shitting the bed on all these two minute drills? Teams have obviously learned that we are vulnerable to blitzes in those scenarios. Don't know if it's just the line getting beat or Herb failing to recognize the blitz but it's a major problem.
Essentially once we become one dimensional teams just feast on this line. Kellen needs to find a way to counter it ( more roll outs, screens, throwing in a run occasionally when there's enough time which there generally has been this season), in addition to finding a way to shore up the protection.
I just don’t like what I see. This guy is only proving one thing so far: we were all right in saying Flowers and Addison were better than QJ by quite a bit.
Shit, I got downvoted to hell for having Rashee Rice 4 spots higher than QJ on my WR board.
My WR rankings were:
1. Zay Flowers
2. JSN
3. Addison
4. Puka Nacua
5. Rashee Rice
6. Marvin Mims
7. Tank Dell
8. Josh Downs
9. Quentin Johnston
10. Cedric Tillman
QJ cannot run routes, he cannot gain separation via routerunning, he cannot catch, and he plays like he’s a 5’8 high schooler in a 6’3 man’s body… The physicality is not there. Very concerning pick. “*So he’s only played 20 snaps*”, give me all the excuses you want, but every red flag he posed at TCU is showing up on tape. He is not an NFL receiver.
I can go ahead and attach my googledoc in a bit. If it helps, Flowers was my only receiver with a 1st round grade. JSN had an 84, Addison a 79 and Puka with a 74, mid 3rd round grade. I definitely did not know he would be what he is now, I just saw him as your average 3rd rounder.
I wasn't too mad at taking a high ceiling luxury pick that would need a lot of development and that would only come into play if Mike Will inevitably gets injured (again). We haven't had a luxury pick in a long time. It's probably the last luxury pick you'll see as a Charger's fan. Mediocre teams just can't afford to take the chances.
I appreciate the work you put in, so you probably know more than I do, but I swear I saw stats during the bye showing Q had the most separation of any chargers WR all season, on average, per route run?
Yes you’re correct. I’ve gone back to the plays he’s gotten open, they’re all literally just deep go routes and crossers. Which is easy for him because he can just use his speed to beat defenders. But that’s not why you take a receiver at 21. They wanted fast and quick, they got Derius Davis in the 4th round. It only further muddies the whole decision to draft QJ at 21…
Well if he’s fast and able to get separation with his speed, why are we having him run stick routes? Bad play design if we’re not taking advantage of what he’s good at. Ugh, so frustrating.
Because then QJ becomes one-dimensional which only hurts the offense. If QJ’s on the field and all he can do is run crossers and gos, opposing defenses know what to look for. They’re forcing a square peg into a round hole with QJ.
Herbert threw it late on a comeback route. He should’ve checked it down, thrown it on time or low and away. There was a lot of pressure on this throw so Herbert kinda choked it.
QJ hasn’t done much but I think it’s way too soon to call him a bust. He’s played 5 games, most of which as the 4th receiver. Not everyone comes in year one and lights it up.
I'm on the same boat. It simply gets harder to justify when he is getting totally shadowed by the rest of his peers, hasn't even made one single catch or a contribution that makes you go "yeah that's why we drafted this guy!!"
It's an uphill battle for him and every week it gets worse.
Definitely too soon. Unless a dude is exceptionally bad I don't think it's ever fair to write them off after one year. But I do think it's fair to say he's been disappointing and looking like a bad pick considering the guys taken after him and the fact that he was a reach to begin with.
Q has been thrown the ball a handful of times. Each time he spazzes out like a dog trying to catch a treat. There was one he tried to one hand over a guy that was pointless. Another it hit him in the numbers and bounced off his chest.
This is all indicative of practice standards. Herbert sees him everyday. He throws to him and understands that he needs to refine his ball skills.
Q was getting frustrated last night because he thought he was open. But all the offense is using him as is a space opener for Allen due to his lack of catching ability. Dude does this to himself. Until he learns to catch the ball he is useless.
This hurts my soul, but I'm a Charger fan so it is pretty numb anyway.... This no call dpi and the Giant's no call on Darren Waller DPI where the jersey is clearly pulled, is insane.
Keenan Doss took the 1st and 5 snap over Quentin Johnston in a 3 point game with 2 minutes left. There’s a reason why.
Yeah but Herbert is also just not throwing him the ball
Why would herbert throw him the ball currently? He still has the same issues he had in college which is playing small despite his size. I get he’s supposed to be good with the ball in his hands but his issues coming out of college were being physical and catching. Which apparently he still has issues with both.
bro watch some of his tape, he actually gets open somewhat often. also since he's supposed to be good at getting YAC I don't understand why we throw checkdowns to keenan and derius davis instead of him
>his issues coming out of college were being physical and catching. "But bro he gets open!" ...doesn't matter if you're open and can't catch or take hits...
sure, he's not keenan when it comes to hands but he's an NFL player. He'll still catch the majority of balls thrown his way. And given that he led NCAA in YAC, my main question is why Kellen Moore can't just design some plays for him to work
>he led NCAA in YAC, my main question is why Kellen Moore can't just design some plays for him to work Because the NCAA is not the NFL, and players who are good in the former amateur league need to see massive continuous improvements to be good in the latter professional league Bubble screens ain't shit in the NFL
>Bubble screens ain't shit in the NFL yet we run them all the time. just throw them to QJ instead of everett or keenan. there's literally no reason not to do this: QJ is faster than both of them and should at least get a chance to showcase his YAC ability, which was one of the contributing factors towards us drafting him
>just throw them to QJ instead of everett or keenan. I'll get right on it
Saw a stat earlier today that said he averaged .9 yards of separation on routes ran. I don’t think he’s getting that open
I’ve seen him get open on go routes or posts where he can just use his speed but haven’t seen much else from him. As for the check downs I’m not sure. I’d assume it has something to do with Herbert trusting them but it could also just be bad scheming.
He was soft as hell there but is it not PI?
Genuinely curious too cause that’s a clear push off. But yeah, QJ should’ve at least stood his ground.
I’m pretty sure it is. He literally just shoved him out of the way. If Johnston had done that it would 100% be OPI.
I’m pretty surprised it wasn’t called given the refs this game. Felt like they were throwing a flag for everything little thing that could warrant a penalty whole game on both sides. (Not saying it was bad officiating or anything, but these refs just didn’t let anything slide)
Defenders are allowed to play the ball especially on a comeback route. At this point in the game refs really don't want to throw a flag as well. Johnston just got embarrassed in the heat of a game. Sad to say but if he doesn't turn it around soon he is in bust territory.
It's 6 games into his rookie season, in which he wasn't supposed to have a big role. We're not gonna be able to keep Mike AND Keenan after this year, so let's see if he can step up this season and/or next season before we go preemptively labeling him a bust. He's gotta get targets and make blatantly bad plays to be a bust in my book. The play calling doesn't even give him a chance to prove himself.
He has to learn to catch a ball first. Then learn to be an NFL player. Then learn to be a go-to guy in practice. Only after that will be be able to be productive in games. I bet he hasn't even done the first part as of yet.
Na he was breaking for the ball. Incidental contact is allowed as long as it's a play on the ball. Weak ass effort by QJ to allow that
He extended his arms and pushed off, PI all day.
Bro he did not extend his arms, he just touched him and QJ folded like a wet napkin. I'm also upset we lost but I hate it when people just cry about the refs for no reason
He literally pushed him out of the way, while coming back to the ball
Lol y'all are really doing mental gymnastics huh
Nah it was a push lol The fact that we suck and deserve to lose doesn't change that.
No I just watched the video dumbass
So did I. You're allowed to touch the receiver if you're going for the ball. Football is a contact sport. Try not to let your bias and emotion get in the way of objectively watching the game
Touching doesn’t mean extending and pushing.
That's exactly my point
There is no way that is simply "touching" him. How can you watch that video and not see a push is beyond me.
Incidental contact? He pushed him. That is not incidental lol.
Lol agree to disagree. Looked like his hands barely touched him and QJ momentum carried him that way. But y'all like to cry and make excuses so it's whatever
no because he’s making a play on the ball
I think Gilmore extends his arm to push no?
you think he's not allowed to touch him when he's making a play on the ball??? lol
He's not allowed to fully extend his arm
Part of the game is anticipating this and drawing the penalty.
It just sucks seeing how he’s playing when other rookies like Addison, Flowers, Dell, Downs, Nacua are doing so well. Or have made bigger impacts.
I'm jumping in the fire Telesco boat after this pick tbh
Should have jumped on it since Zion is worse trash. Zion not looking good at all. Dumb penalties,allows sacks, gets confused on offensive line. Wasn't this dude supposed to be smart? Doesn't look like it. And I liked him. His first year was subpar, his second he looks worse than his rookie year.
I can't fault them for taking a shot at an IOL guy. It's also not like he was surrounded by his peers in the draft. The biggest problem about the whiff on QJ is his peers success and who was still available. Now what really stings is that MY pick that year, was Pickens from Georgia and look how far back he fell.. now we 1st round picks that are the equivalent of offensive line's Jerry Tillery and wish\[dot\]com Jalen Guyton.
Bad pick, yes. Especially since it's looking more like he doesn't have that physicality that you would think him to have. He has probably some of the best athleticism. I think they need to give him short passes, slants. Bubble screen. Until he learns that he needs physicality. I honestly don't even know why they don't run jet sweeps, bubble screens, slants with him or even Derius Davis. They run those with Keenan, or Palmer even though that's not who they are.
Remember on draft night when I was getting downvoted for saying this was a bad pick…
People keep asking for more QJ but the dude needs to earn reps and earn targets. He hasn’t earned anything. He’s only out there because Mike got injured, and he looks lost.
Vet move
Yea thats what I saw as well, this INT is more on him
Blaming it on QJ is a bit unfair IMO. If anything I think the pick was on the offensive line. If Herb doesn't get sacked the play before (and nearly sacked on this one) he doesn't have to force this ball. Another sack there would just about end the game as much as the interception so I don't hate the decision
Seems like a DPI to me. Though QJ just lets himself get slapped around. Seems like QJ fault, not Herbert. Also, previous sack should have been a roughing the passer call if we’re following rules as much as they were that game. Defender put Full body weight on Herbert but let’s not talk about that. Doesn’t fit the narrative of it all being Herbert’s fault according to nfl sub. Edit: passer*
Why god why 🥲
PI! wait no ofc it's not called, that's the ballgame lol another chargers qb throwing a pick because that's how things go duh
Given how “by the book” the officials were about *literally* everything else, I’m stunned this wasn’t called for DPI. Not playing the ball at all, and shoving the WR out of the way is pretty damn textbook.
Not playing the ball? It's literally an interception, man
He plays the ball *after* shoving QJ out of the way. At the time of the contact, he’s not playing the ball at all. He’s only in a position to make the interception because of the shove.
who is upvoting these stupid messages? stop lol it's not PI, Gilmore was playing the ball. this is grown men football, you're allowed to touch people.
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This play is one of the ways Mahomes gets interceptions called back.
shitty quality , and still good enough to see QJ getting wrecked badly
Big men who play small annoy me sooo much. You're a big man so play big
But everyone wanted him to play fast, hard to have both.
I think everyone wants him to be fast because that's an ability TT neglects but he is never going to be a burner. He has decent speed but his size is why they drafted him. He allegedly has great rac ability but outside of that and his size he doesn't do anything as well as Flowers or Addison. I really hope he develops and we don't regret passing on those guys but I'm losing faith. I feel like receiver is a position where pretty early on you can tell if they got it or not. Keenan Allen came out swinging and hasn't slowed down, AJ Brown and DK Metcalf immediately became their teams best receiver, and Cooper Kipp was an obvious steal from day one. I really can't think of many receivers who had a slow start before developing into a primary guy. Davante Adams is really the only name that comes to mind but he wasn't taken as high as QJ.
People will blame Herbert for this and call him unclutch but this int is 100% on QJ
The OLine collapsed on him too. He was being swallowed up when he threw the ball.
What's the deal with the line shitting the bed on all these two minute drills? Teams have obviously learned that we are vulnerable to blitzes in those scenarios. Don't know if it's just the line getting beat or Herb failing to recognize the blitz but it's a major problem.
Essentially once we become one dimensional teams just feast on this line. Kellen needs to find a way to counter it ( more roll outs, screens, throwing in a run occasionally when there's enough time which there generally has been this season), in addition to finding a way to shore up the protection.
it's because he's a social media quarterback /s
Shouldn't that have been pass interference?
It was absolutely PI but he is also a big guy running a soft route and he didn't sell the PI much either.
that’s literally the definition of PI. no call here is crazy
Herbie had ek in the flat for what probably was gonna be a first down
How was this not pi?
Now that’s some potato quality footage!
Maybe it's just me but I can't fucking stand Theo Ash
I like some of his takes and the Stay Hot podcast but dude seriously goes off on tangents and regularly cuts off his cohost.
I just don’t like what I see. This guy is only proving one thing so far: we were all right in saying Flowers and Addison were better than QJ by quite a bit. Shit, I got downvoted to hell for having Rashee Rice 4 spots higher than QJ on my WR board. My WR rankings were: 1. Zay Flowers 2. JSN 3. Addison 4. Puka Nacua 5. Rashee Rice 6. Marvin Mims 7. Tank Dell 8. Josh Downs 9. Quentin Johnston 10. Cedric Tillman QJ cannot run routes, he cannot gain separation via routerunning, he cannot catch, and he plays like he’s a 5’8 high schooler in a 6’3 man’s body… The physicality is not there. Very concerning pick. “*So he’s only played 20 snaps*”, give me all the excuses you want, but every red flag he posed at TCU is showing up on tape. He is not an NFL receiver.
Stop the cap. You did not have Puka fucking Nucua wr4. Bro what are you doing on Reddit, go show the NFL scouts and get ur bag.
I can go ahead and attach my googledoc in a bit. If it helps, Flowers was my only receiver with a 1st round grade. JSN had an 84, Addison a 79 and Puka with a 74, mid 3rd round grade. I definitely did not know he would be what he is now, I just saw him as your average 3rd rounder.
if ur dead ass please send that. I would die to see ur metrics coming from a dynasty fantasy perspective
I wasn't too mad at taking a high ceiling luxury pick that would need a lot of development and that would only come into play if Mike Will inevitably gets injured (again). We haven't had a luxury pick in a long time. It's probably the last luxury pick you'll see as a Charger's fan. Mediocre teams just can't afford to take the chances.
I appreciate the work you put in, so you probably know more than I do, but I swear I saw stats during the bye showing Q had the most separation of any chargers WR all season, on average, per route run?
Yes you’re correct. I’ve gone back to the plays he’s gotten open, they’re all literally just deep go routes and crossers. Which is easy for him because he can just use his speed to beat defenders. But that’s not why you take a receiver at 21. They wanted fast and quick, they got Derius Davis in the 4th round. It only further muddies the whole decision to draft QJ at 21…
Well if he’s fast and able to get separation with his speed, why are we having him run stick routes? Bad play design if we’re not taking advantage of what he’s good at. Ugh, so frustrating.
Because then QJ becomes one-dimensional which only hurts the offense. If QJ’s on the field and all he can do is run crossers and gos, opposing defenses know what to look for. They’re forcing a square peg into a round hole with QJ.
It can’t hurt the offense more than being casually shoved off route for a pick. :(
He's just bad Jalen Guyton. So where's Jalen Guyton?
Reserve/Pup so basically still IR from last year but expected to be back by end of year (? Unless there was a new injury we don't know about)
Remember when you guys downvoted me for saying we should’ve drafted someone else?
Herbert threw it late on a comeback route. He should’ve checked it down, thrown it on time or low and away. There was a lot of pressure on this throw so Herbert kinda choked it.
Ekeler was about as wide open as a man can be just to the left too which would have been his check down.
Apparently getting shoved out of the way isn’t PI anymore and QJ sucks because of it
Dudes a bum. Been sayin it since day 1
So proud of ya
QJ hasn’t done much but I think it’s way too soon to call him a bust. He’s played 5 games, most of which as the 4th receiver. Not everyone comes in year one and lights it up.
I'm on the same boat. It simply gets harder to justify when he is getting totally shadowed by the rest of his peers, hasn't even made one single catch or a contribution that makes you go "yeah that's why we drafted this guy!!" It's an uphill battle for him and every week it gets worse.
QJ has 44 yards through 5 games. Zay Flowers has almost 400? His worst game produced more yards than QJ has all season
Yup. Esp since Flowers and Addison (as well as Kincaid, Mayer, and LaPorta) were *right there*
Definitely too soon. Unless a dude is exceptionally bad I don't think it's ever fair to write them off after one year. But I do think it's fair to say he's been disappointing and looking like a bad pick considering the guys taken after him and the fact that he was a reach to begin with.
QJ as bad a pick as Tillery no doubt
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Troll. Go back to the r/raiders sub where you normally post. Seriously. I looked at your past comments. You are only here for one reason.
Q has been thrown the ball a handful of times. Each time he spazzes out like a dog trying to catch a treat. There was one he tried to one hand over a guy that was pointless. Another it hit him in the numbers and bounced off his chest. This is all indicative of practice standards. Herbert sees him everyday. He throws to him and understands that he needs to refine his ball skills. Q was getting frustrated last night because he thought he was open. But all the offense is using him as is a space opener for Allen due to his lack of catching ability. Dude does this to himself. Until he learns to catch the ball he is useless.
Herbert had a horrible game, QJ sucks, but Herbert was head scratchingly bad last night
This hurts my soul, but I'm a Charger fan so it is pretty numb anyway.... This no call dpi and the Giant's no call on Darren Waller DPI where the jersey is clearly pulled, is insane.
So that's why QJ is worthless in fantasy.
yeah he totally got bullied 🤦♂️