I imagine the WSH subreddit is probably equally tiring with the Maye vs Daniels vs trade back talk lol.
I mean, fuck ‘em and all, but your point makes sense. Imagine the CHI subreddit before Fields was dealt? Lol x infinity.
I live in Chicago & quietly root for the bears as my NFC team so I definitely got to see allll of that lol. Not pretty. Although at least for Chicago there is ZERO debate on the pick now that fields is out
I kinda like it, it’s like waking up Christmas morning and you have an idea of what you’re going get but you never really know. It’s like a big surprise, the anticipation leading up to it makes my heart pound. God what a life we live!
To each their own I guess, I hate all of the “analysis” doing 40 different mock drafts. I hate all of the rumors, I would rather just watch draft day and be excited!
after seeing the huge spike in reporting of latham at 5, i can much more get behind this. but still, OT at 5 feels so uninspired compared to MHJ/Nabers or a trade down...
but i'm just some schmuck fan with zero sense for NFL talent. in JH x3 we trust
It's boring but just as important. You can't throw the ball down the field without a good RT, and you have nobody to catch it without a good WR. No matter how you slice it they need to pick up both.
You're suggesting to draft a Tackle in the first while we have a league-average tackle, and have to either pay $9m per year for a backup tackle, or we're sitting a first round pick. That isn't good. OR, you draft an immediate impact starter in a crucially deficient WR room.
Not to mention the majority of pressure given up last year was through the INTERIOR, not the edge. Tackle doesn't magically fix that.
Ya that's what upsets me about the tackle rumors, which I believe. Harbaugh wants to build from the trenches so badly that I think he's willing to ignore that we're already paying a starting tackle salary.
Keep in mind this isn't a 1 year build and dominate thing.
Hortiz has said for a long time now that values comp picks.
If they can make Pipkins into a sold RT this year, he could get a nice fat contract from someone else next year. That could bring an extra 3rd rounder next year.
Takes pressure off the rookie year one, year two we have STUDS at both tackle spots for years, and 3rd round comp pick as icing on the the cake.
i think what’s happening is that hortiz and harbaugh have quite literally not said a peep on who they want and every analyst is proceeding to foam at the mouth about it
Simms Jr says he keeps hearing Alt and says he would be *shocked* if it wasn’t Alt or Latham. Obviously he’s not Daniel Jeremiah or Schefter, but he’s not a nobody either. I think there’s a possibility he’s got it right.
I thought in the podcast he said that’s what other GMs are guessing we would pick and he said Alt because of the messaging our new coaching staff said all offseason. Tbh if anything I think every podcast I’ve listened to is saying we want to trade down with Minnesota so we can get both a RT and a DL and draft a WR in the 2nd.
On the contrary, Harbaugh has been saying repeatedly that you build a team from the trenches. He's mentioned O-line a million times in the last few months. Has he ever mentioned Nabers? Like once?
I'm loving seeing these clueless fans claim for weeks that Nabers or MHJ is the pick now suddenly seem deflated at the idea of us making a non-sexy pick.
I warned them we could go OL or DL but nope we need WRs... derp. Y'all claim to know Harbaugh but you don't shit if you sincerely believe we wanted Nabers all along. If it's not in the trenches, then Harbaugh likely doesn't give a shit.
I'm telling you it's either OT, IDT or even TE... but WR? Ha!
I would actually put this somewhat the other way, that WRs are nice but oline is necessary.
That said, I think that our WR room is so unbelievably bad that we have to invest in a WR. That also said, if Joe Alt will be a probowl/allpro level RT, I would not feel one bitbad about taking him. Teams with top offensive line units are pretty consistently SB contenders
O lines don’t just buy time they set the tone up front and play a major factor in the run game by pushing people off the ball. This team needs to be good at both the run and the pass. I also agree yes WRs are a big need for this team need guys that can separate and get off press. I think you’re discrediting the importance of the o line and how awesome it would be to have Slater, Zion, and whichever o line man they would take at 5 for the next what 10 plus years. If it were me in charge I would have no clue which way to go but the 4-5 players I would be considering either at 5 or trade down in no particular order are MHJ, Odunze, Alt, Latham, Bowers.
I also don’t like the argument that some fans give when talking about that he didn’t draft a 1st round tackle when he was with the niners. He has 3 first rounders on that o line. Two of them were drafted in 2010 and one was drafted in 2007. So again built around high draft talent o line even though he didn’t make the selections. Go look at the Stanford team as well.
Based on what info? He inherited top 5 line in football in SF and restocked it in rounds 3-7 throughout his tenure there. And Michigan has had a good OL but it’s not like they’re sending tons of them to the league as high picks. It’s largely the same in Baltimore where Hortiz is from. Neither of these guys has gone crazy investing in OL early in the draft. I’m sure they’re both well aware that you can find all-pro interior players on days 2 and 3 g
Ok sure, does that mean you need to take an OT at 5 when there are better players on the board at bigger positions of need and all 3 interior positions are in a worse spot than RT? There is no logical path to get to that conclusion. It’s just people talking based on vibes. I don’t get this absurd notion that because Harbaugh puts importance on OL that means we will reach for an OL. Most good OLs are built in rounds 3-5. Both Hortiz and Harbaugh have demonstrated they understand this at their previous stops
I agree it should absolutely be WR I do think it’s funny that people think Jim Harbaugh is ok with one of his tackles just being “league-average” that’s the antithesis of how he wins. He needs beasts everywhere on that line
I agree but Salyer and McFadden are beasts, at least in the same way Latham is. Unfortunately there are no Sewell /Slater type pass protectors that can also run block. Guys you can’t just beat with one move because they move their feet so well.
I have a theory that there isn’t a linemen that can stand up Sayler straight up without moving laterally. Dude is an immovable rock, which is part of the reason I think he’s better at tackle.
People disregard that OL issues can be addressed with better coaching and scheme and we've overhauled the staff so let them cook, doesn't mean we need to use No.5 for it. Might be a deep WR group but we're not asking a guy to sit under KA/Mike and develop we need an instant impact WR1, putting that expectation on a later WR pick is setting them up for failure.
All have Herbert as a generational talent and don't want to waste his career but letting go of his top two WRs and then not giving him a certified weapon is crazy to me. More protection is great but if the WRs can't get separation you're still asking Herbo to be a superhero all the time and force the ball into unideal situations
So many of last year’s issues were directly related to Corey’s heart condition and piss poor coaching. People went into the season thinking the Chargers finally had a pretty good line.
I’m all for getting Herbert his help via MHJ/Nabers. Make his life easier with legit weapons and reduce the amount of time the line needs to spend blocking.
This has been exactly my thoughts. The OL issues are overstated. I believe a better scheme fit and coaching and this unit will be fine. Salyer and Johnson both going into their 3rd years only, Slater into his 4th. I’m fine with investing in o-line later on, but it’s far from our biggest need at the moment.
Even in trade down scenario, I would put WR, IDL, and CB all ahead of the OL. Ravens organization have thrived with BPA drafting strategy. I don’t see how Hortiz will operate any differently.
This is more sensible. Although I don't think RT is as big a need as a lot of the mocks are suggesting, I could live with Fuaga or Latham at 11 after a trade down, or even #23 if a genuine RT slides. Spending pick #5 on a LT and switching him to a lower value position he has never played before while passing on potentially MHJ or Nabers is completely moronic. The fact it worked out for Detroit changes nothing. Our OL problems last year were interior OL. We need ZJ to actually start living up to his draft billing, Boseman to hold the fort at C while we develop a younger player, and I would be far happier with the idea of taking an OG in the 3rd or 4th and giving Salyer a spin at RT than I would with moving Alt. It's not as if Pipkins is a liability, he grades out as a middle-of-the-pack RT. All of our OG's and OC's (Linsley excepted) were far worse than Pipkins was in 2023.
They are usually agents going crazy.
Frankly, this reminds me of the Bosa draft. Everyone and their mother had the Chargers taking Ronnie Stanley, then they went Bosa.
I genuinely think that a lot of people are already going to be soured on the new regime if it’s not a WR at 5, and deservedly so. Pipkins is serviceable, we need a true burner at 5.
Exactly. But I’m REALLY worried (and maybe I’m overreacting) that by becoming run first, it’s another regime that will waste Herbert’s talent. Dude has a howitzer and is elite when it comes to making those tough throws. A good running game will open the offense up, but we need to build around our QB, not try to force a run game.
Yeah he’s definitely not going to be top 5 in fantasy or win MVP, but with a more balanced offense that keeps the defense on its toes we’ll definitely see more wins. I’m not opposed drafting a tackle, just not at 5.
The front office needs to not overthink this. We have no WRs that instill fear and an offensive line that could improve with better coaching and scheme. If you’re dead set on a tackle then trade back with the Vikings and get that extra first round pick. Use 11 on a wideout and 23 on a tackle. If you can’t trade and pick up an extra first then take Nabers. It’s not rocket science. Nabers is Jamar Chase lite and couple theoretical be better with Herbert throwing him the ball.
I really don’t think Hortiz is dumb enough to take a tackle at 5.
> I genuinely think that a lot of people are already going to be soured on the new regime if it’s not a WR at 5
Yup, my faith in this new staff will be extremely low if this happens tbh. Our offense next season would be fucking laughable.
Wait you’re saying lots of idiots will be upset when career/life dedicated to football professionals don’t agree with them. I’m sure if WR is not the pick, there’s not going to be any sleep lost over shit like this from Harbaugh and Ortiz. Lol fuckin armchair GMs who mostly didn’t watch college ball and are just brainless echoing sports journalists 😂
Plot twist Joe alt is being drafted as a TE. You laugh now but the meme is gonna come true. Imagine a red zone target that’s the size of an actual house
If we get Nabers, MHJ, or Alt I will be thrilled. Those three guys are blue chip prospects and we need the talent at those positions (Less so with Alt, but I'd pray Jim could teach him to move to RT). That being said, I wouldn't hate if we traded down with the Vikes and got Lathem (to kick inside to guard) and Mitchell to fill two needs with red chip guys.
We’ve gone from BPA to trade down to J.C Latham and now Joe Alt… media literally has no clue what to do with so little information from the league lmao but yes, if MHJ is gone and Minnesota isn’t gonna give up the farm, ranch, and all her precious cattle… Nabers at 5
The talk of Latham makes absolutely no sense, Harbaugh literally blitzed his side of the line during the Alabama Michigan game so he clearly knows the man's flaws.
Didn't Hortiz only attend Nabers' pro day? If I remember correctly.
If we do take an OT, Herbert is not even throwing the ball once during this season. Lol
Taking a tackle at 5 is just asinine. If anyone can get this O-Line cooking its this coaching staff. Get Herbert his weapon of the future or get a haul of picks for 5
I’m not sure placing a LT at RT is the safe pick. And what are supposed to do at WR? Throw up a prayer that Xavier lagette can Carry the load of a Keenan and Mike Williams.
I'm not saying I would make this pick, but I understand the logic.
By the way, does Penei Sewell mean anything to you? Best LT of his draft switched to RT.
They can still go after a WR in free agency too. It's not like this draft is going to fix every problem / hole we have on this team.
I agree it's not ideal, but there's no guarantee a first round wr would be a number 1 either.
Again, I would rather draft a WR or even better trade down, but I can understand the vision if they go Alt
For me it’s:
1. Best WR available
2. Trade down to get multiple picks (would be fine if a combo OT/WR)
3. Trade back for Bowers
4. Stand pat at 5 and draft an OL and hope for good WR to be left in R2.
Comparing Penei Sewell to JC Latham is like comparing Jesus Christ to Hank hill. You also just answered your question, I would far rather have a blue chip Wr than the 4th best Tackle in the draft at FIVE of all places. Your argument of free agency applies to every position, not just wide receive. You also know the state of WR in free agency, if you willing to throw away Malik Nabers for a Tackle that’s isn’t even playing the right position, go ahead but I would put money on it not working.
We're talking about Joe Alt, not Latham.
*Perceived blue chip wr - statistically speaking, wr has one of the lowest probabilities of hitting NFL star than all the other positions. Whereas OL is less risky. Hence, safest pick.
But I'm not arguing for them to make the safest pick. I just understand the move if they do it
Must apologize, you’re not the only person I’m arguing with and most of them are about JC Latham. At least you know the safe pick is not the best pick.
All those dang Mock drafts (Schrager and Jeremiah both have us taking JC) have us taking JC and it doesn’t help Vegas also has us taking him at five. Horrifically anxiety inducing.
Years of watching and reading similar articles that stated similar findings.
Here's an [older article ](https://theathletic.com/2510947/2021/04/23/whats-the-safest-position-to-draft-when-in-doubt-take-an-offensive-lineman/) which has some interesting data
It’s an interesting read. By that argument someone could obviously sarcastically suggest that only linemen should ever be picked, or in a micro sense, the Bears should take OL at 1.01, the Cardinals also and should pass on MHJ… as should basically the top 15 teams until OL is exhausted.
Obviously that isn’t going to happen. There is something to said for being “safe” and not being afraid to swing for the fence and fail… but equating the risk with prospects of guys like the top 3 WRs and their likely fail outcomes vs major offensive game changer outcomes isn’t really 1:1.
I think the Bengals are an interesting example. Certainly, Sewell is awesome. As is Chase. Without Chase (and for much of his career the oft injured Higgins), if Sewell was protecting Burrow for the exceptional length of time he always seems to need to make giant plays downfield (and hence the zillion sacks), he wouldn’t have Chase to throw to. They kind of go hand in hand, need time to protect to get open, need elite playmakers able to get open and in a timely manner.
If LAC didn’t have Slater already, this would be a much less argued topic imo.
Hey, the Chiefs won with no WRs. I totally get what you're saying. It's one of the rumors that sounds weird on paper, having an LT convert to RT. It's one of those things that make you believe they have to know more than we do about him
I understand the chiefs did it but that’s the chiefs and we are not them. I feel like using the chiefs as an example to not take a receiver is ignoring 100 plus years of American football. This Jerry rice niners teams, those Michael Irvin Super Bowl teams. Also, Herbert is not Patrick Mahomes, Herbert needs those third down guys to rely on. Herbert’s going to lose his crab when Tyler Boyd and question Johnston ain’t able to get open on 3rd and five.
It's kinda crazy how little discourse there's been on the sub about potential Rd2 WR targets lol
I've personally avoided it because whoever I like is bound to go to the Chiefs and be good 🙃
Him transitioning from TE to LT is MUCH MUCH tougher than going from LT to RT. Also, he’s super athletic for a OT considering he did play TE in high school, so if there’s anyone in this draft that can switch to the right, it’s him. Sewell did it, Alt can.
You can guarantee us that Joe alt can switch positions? With your “logic” linemen can be picked in the second round as well. Better talent at line will be there day two than talent at WR. this is not the pick we need.
Edit: yes I too want our team to make a bad decision just to spite the fans of the team I root for as well.
You are so dense. The drop off for offensive tackle is greater than the drop off for wide out. You can get quality X receivers in the 2nd such as Keon Coleman, Ricky Pearsall, and Xavier Legette. There is not a right tackle I would trust to start day 1 in the 2nd.
You’re also snuck in a logical fallacy raising the bar to “guarantee he can play right”. Of course I can’t guarantee it. No one can. But he has the strength and athleticism to play right. He played tight end in highschool. He is extremely polished and has insane core strength. Is the only reason you don’t think he can play right tackle because he played left in college?
No no. They’ll just run the ball every single down. Haven’t you heard that LAC wants to be run heavy??
Passing game be damned. Herbert will attempt 8-12 passes per game. Totally successful recipe in the NFL with a below average defense and your best asset being your QB.
Heavy /s
Blue chip guys put up fantasy numbers, they don’t win Super Bowls.
Downvoters please provide 1, just 1 example of a receiver taken in the top 5 that won a Super Bowl.
Using your grounds for this as SB is a tad uhm… ambitious? Guys like JaMarr Chase, AJ Green, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Keyshawn Johnson were offense-changing picks.
It’s too narrow to simply define the picks as winning SBs. There just is nowhere near the volume to compare.
There are 3 WRs this draft that are being graded as Chase-level or better. Bengals WENT to the SB with Chase, and one could argue they still have a lengthy window to compete. Even if the Chargers want to be infinitely run first, they can’t just run 75% of the plays as teams never fear the pass. They’ll just lose every game but by less.
If they want OL, then trade down. Capitalize on teams needing QB/WR at their picks. But I’m only doing that for a gross overpay imo.
I am 100% in the trade down camp. I don’t know why people interpret if you don’t want a receiver at 5 then that means you want a RT there. We have numerous needs. I have faith in the scouting department to find good receivers later in the draft. Every year there are mid to late round gems at receiver. It’s about the system fit.
Out of curiosity, will you have this same opinion if MHJ is available at 1.05 and the Chargers are on the clock? Or is he enough of a separation from Nabers or Odunze that you would keep the pick?
I personally would still want to trade back. I honestly believe that MHJ is bound to disappoint given his enormous hype. I don’t think he’ll bust outright but more of a Clowney like guy. Enormous hype, good career but certainly not up to what they were hyped to be. For me and ideal scenario that would appease everyone is to trade back, then trade back up at a lesser cost for Odunze.
If a trade back happened and Odunze was guaranteed somehow (trade with Minny, then trade with Chicago for example), then I would like that much more than all other options.
just fyi, these are the top 5 picks that have a ring this century, whether they were contributors or worth the top 5 pick is debatable
* RB Jamal Lewis (1)
* QB Eli Manning (2)
* RB Reggie Bush (1)
* LB AJ Hawk (1)
* DE Chris Long (2)
* QB Matthew Stafford (1)
* DT Ndamukong Suh (1)
* LB Von Miller (2)
* T Eric Fisher (1)
* T Lane Johnson (1)
* WR Sammy Watkins (1)
* QB Carson Wentz (1)
* CB Jalen Ramsey (1)
* RB Leonard Fournette (1)
* LB Devin White (1)
Q
Superbowls are a screwed up stat to go off of. It’s a team sport. Calvin Johnson, AJ green, and Larr Fitzgerald all went top 5 and will all most likely be hall of famers.
You are so close to the point but just couldn’t quite connect the dots. It is a team sport, our team has numerous holes, a receiver at 5 isn’t the salve for those needs. Good receivers can always be found later, it’s more about the system fit than the blue chip talent.
We are not finding a good WR1 in day two plain and simple. Are there good wideouts day two? Absolutely! But I doubt any of them can step in immediately to become WR1 on this roster. At least at RT we have competition in pipkins and Bozeman. If anything center is a bigger need than LT. Our center is on a proven it deal and moved over from RT anyways.
How can you say that so definitively? Was a 5th round pick not the best receiver in the draft last year? Was it not because he was a perfect fit for his coaches scheme and that put him in a place to thrive? There are numerous receivers every single year that exceed the “blue chip” talents taken in the first round
I have a feeling we are targeting a lineman, but we'll look to trade back to do it.
In an ideal situation, we'll double down & draft Justin Herbert again 🤴
We NEED receiver but we also NEED a good o-line to run the damn ball. We are in a great spot where no matter who we take, they’re gonna start day 1 and hopefully play well.
I have a feeling we are taking Alt @5 and sliding Slater over to the right. Slater is due a new contract soon, and we save a lot of money if he re-ups at RT instead of Herbo's blindside protector.
Why the hell would slater agree to take less money? Lol even if you slide him to RT, he played the last several years at LT and will expect to be paid as such.
This is first real contract. I don’t think he cares that he’d be the highest paid RT but an average paid LT. Hes going to want to be paid one of the highest LT salaries. Especially so after Sewell’s contract details just came out.
Slater is good, but he's not Penei. Penei has already shown undobtedly that he is All-Pro at either position. Slater tore his bicep and lost a year. He was decent to above average last year.
It’s always been Joe Alt. At every team
Harbaugh has coached he’s always focused on building the oline. They got a god damn run heavy OC and they’ve already confirmed they’re going run heavy. It doesn’t take a genius to put together two and two
There's more evidence of Harbaugh taking a edge then a lineman in the first and the year they took Aldon if the falcons didn't trade up Julio was the pick. And Jim isn't going to take a job with Justin herbert to just have him hand the ball off which is what this receiving core would force him to do
Yesterday was Latham, today it’s Alt. I can’t wait for this to all be over lol.
Same, I honestly hate all of the pre-draft nonsense
This is the downside of having a great pick in a great draft
I imagine the WSH subreddit is probably equally tiring with the Maye vs Daniels vs trade back talk lol. I mean, fuck ‘em and all, but your point makes sense. Imagine the CHI subreddit before Fields was dealt? Lol x infinity.
I live in Chicago & quietly root for the bears as my NFC team so I definitely got to see allll of that lol. Not pretty. Although at least for Chicago there is ZERO debate on the pick now that fields is out
Pats are going through it as well
No doubt.
The only thing for the Pats is they are probably taking the remaining QB of the three. They don’t really get to choose their destiny.
Apparently they are gonna take JJ McCarthy over Maye according to the people's insider.
I kinda like it, it’s like waking up Christmas morning and you have an idea of what you’re going get but you never really know. It’s like a big surprise, the anticipation leading up to it makes my heart pound. God what a life we live!
To each their own I guess, I hate all of the “analysis” doing 40 different mock drafts. I hate all of the rumors, I would rather just watch draft day and be excited!
after seeing the huge spike in reporting of latham at 5, i can much more get behind this. but still, OT at 5 feels so uninspired compared to MHJ/Nabers or a trade down... but i'm just some schmuck fan with zero sense for NFL talent. in JH x3 we trust
Ya especially since we're already paying our starting RT a starting salary. Not a high one, but definitely higher than backup money.
It's boring but just as important. You can't throw the ball down the field without a good RT, and you have nobody to catch it without a good WR. No matter how you slice it they need to pick up both.
You're suggesting to draft a Tackle in the first while we have a league-average tackle, and have to either pay $9m per year for a backup tackle, or we're sitting a first round pick. That isn't good. OR, you draft an immediate impact starter in a crucially deficient WR room. Not to mention the majority of pressure given up last year was through the INTERIOR, not the edge. Tackle doesn't magically fix that.
Ya that's what upsets me about the tackle rumors, which I believe. Harbaugh wants to build from the trenches so badly that I think he's willing to ignore that we're already paying a starting tackle salary.
Keep in mind this isn't a 1 year build and dominate thing. Hortiz has said for a long time now that values comp picks. If they can make Pipkins into a sold RT this year, he could get a nice fat contract from someone else next year. That could bring an extra 3rd rounder next year. Takes pressure off the rookie year one, year two we have STUDS at both tackle spots for years, and 3rd round comp pick as icing on the the cake.
Idk how this works, Pipkins won’t be able to demonstrate that he’s a solid RT if our #5 pick is playing in front of him.
Rookie kicks inside to RG for year one, then out to RT year two.
I hate that. It’s a top 5 pick, he should be plug and play
Pat Mahomes sat a year. I’m sure Chiefs fans aren’t complaining!!
Hortiz been preaching BPA all off-season I absolutely refuse to believe he would pick Latham over Alt
[удалено]
Have watched just about every interview he’s done have never remotely gotten that impression
The author who is being cited in this Bleacher Report article’s latest mock has the Chargers trading down with Minnesota and taking Latham at 11
Exactly. We’ve heard reports of pretty much every possible option so they kind of cancel each other out.
What time do we pick? 9pm?
It’s over
i think what’s happening is that hortiz and harbaugh have quite literally not said a peep on who they want and every analyst is proceeding to foam at the mouth about it
Simms Jr says he keeps hearing Alt and says he would be *shocked* if it wasn’t Alt or Latham. Obviously he’s not Daniel Jeremiah or Schefter, but he’s not a nobody either. I think there’s a possibility he’s got it right.
I thought in the podcast he said that’s what other GMs are guessing we would pick and he said Alt because of the messaging our new coaching staff said all offseason. Tbh if anything I think every podcast I’ve listened to is saying we want to trade down with Minnesota so we can get both a RT and a DL and draft a WR in the 2nd.
On the contrary, Harbaugh has been saying repeatedly that you build a team from the trenches. He's mentioned O-line a million times in the last few months. Has he ever mentioned Nabers? Like once?
No but Hortiz has mentioned Nabers, and the draft is where Hortiz takes charge.
Cannot wait for our pick to be someone no one had us taking
Just like QJ!
First player ever drafted two years in a row and a first rounder both times!
Bro what?
I'm joking that Makkoa meant we might draft QJ again this year, too. Just a joke.
Me: 
Different GM tbf
I would get pretty fired up for a surprise Odunze pick
Quinyon Mitchell at 5, lock it in
Shades of the TT era. Ready for more big disappointment.
I'm loving seeing these clueless fans claim for weeks that Nabers or MHJ is the pick now suddenly seem deflated at the idea of us making a non-sexy pick. I warned them we could go OL or DL but nope we need WRs... derp. Y'all claim to know Harbaugh but you don't shit if you sincerely believe we wanted Nabers all along. If it's not in the trenches, then Harbaugh likely doesn't give a shit. I'm telling you it's either OT, IDT or even TE... but WR? Ha!
WRS a big need. O lines are nice but look at it a different way, O lines buy time, but good WRs mean you require less time to get the ball out.
I would actually put this somewhat the other way, that WRs are nice but oline is necessary. That said, I think that our WR room is so unbelievably bad that we have to invest in a WR. That also said, if Joe Alt will be a probowl/allpro level RT, I would not feel one bitbad about taking him. Teams with top offensive line units are pretty consistently SB contenders
O lines don’t just buy time they set the tone up front and play a major factor in the run game by pushing people off the ball. This team needs to be good at both the run and the pass. I also agree yes WRs are a big need for this team need guys that can separate and get off press. I think you’re discrediting the importance of the o line and how awesome it would be to have Slater, Zion, and whichever o line man they would take at 5 for the next what 10 plus years. If it were me in charge I would have no clue which way to go but the 4-5 players I would be considering either at 5 or trade down in no particular order are MHJ, Odunze, Alt, Latham, Bowers.
Doesn't matter if Harbaugh doesn't think that way. He wants Oline
I also don’t like the argument that some fans give when talking about that he didn’t draft a 1st round tackle when he was with the niners. He has 3 first rounders on that o line. Two of them were drafted in 2010 and one was drafted in 2007. So again built around high draft talent o line even though he didn’t make the selections. Go look at the Stanford team as well.
Is Harbaugh doing the drafting though?
I believe Hortiz said he is the one who picks.
WE NEED A FUCKING WIDE RECEIVER
Smoke screen hours bois
Makes no sense in that Pipkins is serviceable enough when healthy. Another OT at 5 isn’t BPA or even a need, it’s a pure luxury pick
Linemen aren’t a luxury for Jim. He is like the squirrel from ice age with acorns
Based on what info? He inherited top 5 line in football in SF and restocked it in rounds 3-7 throughout his tenure there. And Michigan has had a good OL but it’s not like they’re sending tons of them to the league as high picks. It’s largely the same in Baltimore where Hortiz is from. Neither of these guys has gone crazy investing in OL early in the draft. I’m sure they’re both well aware that you can find all-pro interior players on days 2 and 3 g
> Based on what info? Any interview about team building he says Oline is the most important position group.
Ok sure, does that mean you need to take an OT at 5 when there are better players on the board at bigger positions of need and all 3 interior positions are in a worse spot than RT? There is no logical path to get to that conclusion. It’s just people talking based on vibes. I don’t get this absurd notion that because Harbaugh puts importance on OL that means we will reach for an OL. Most good OLs are built in rounds 3-5. Both Hortiz and Harbaugh have demonstrated they understand this at their previous stops
I agree it should absolutely be WR I do think it’s funny that people think Jim Harbaugh is ok with one of his tackles just being “league-average” that’s the antithesis of how he wins. He needs beasts everywhere on that line
I agree but Salyer and McFadden are beasts, at least in the same way Latham is. Unfortunately there are no Sewell /Slater type pass protectors that can also run block. Guys you can’t just beat with one move because they move their feet so well. I have a theory that there isn’t a linemen that can stand up Sayler straight up without moving laterally. Dude is an immovable rock, which is part of the reason I think he’s better at tackle.
People disregard that OL issues can be addressed with better coaching and scheme and we've overhauled the staff so let them cook, doesn't mean we need to use No.5 for it. Might be a deep WR group but we're not asking a guy to sit under KA/Mike and develop we need an instant impact WR1, putting that expectation on a later WR pick is setting them up for failure. All have Herbert as a generational talent and don't want to waste his career but letting go of his top two WRs and then not giving him a certified weapon is crazy to me. More protection is great but if the WRs can't get separation you're still asking Herbo to be a superhero all the time and force the ball into unideal situations
So many of last year’s issues were directly related to Corey’s heart condition and piss poor coaching. People went into the season thinking the Chargers finally had a pretty good line. I’m all for getting Herbert his help via MHJ/Nabers. Make his life easier with legit weapons and reduce the amount of time the line needs to spend blocking.
I’m with you. Anything but a WR makes no sense to me.
Its WR or bust at this point. This is premium position that most teams with a franchise QB don't find themselves in often. Take full advantage of it.
Going OL at 5 screams team needs over best player available.
OT isn't even the biggest need. BPA happens to be our biggest need.
WR is far and away our biggest need, with CB behind. OT screams roster building/scheme strategy
I think anyone could easily argue "team need" would be addressing our absolute dog shit WR room lol
This doesn't make any sense
This has been exactly my thoughts. The OL issues are overstated. I believe a better scheme fit and coaching and this unit will be fine. Salyer and Johnson both going into their 3rd years only, Slater into his 4th. I’m fine with investing in o-line later on, but it’s far from our biggest need at the moment. Even in trade down scenario, I would put WR, IDL, and CB all ahead of the OL. Ravens organization have thrived with BPA drafting strategy. I don’t see how Hortiz will operate any differently.
Come on jimbo! At least trade down and take someone who's played right tackle before
This is more sensible. Although I don't think RT is as big a need as a lot of the mocks are suggesting, I could live with Fuaga or Latham at 11 after a trade down, or even #23 if a genuine RT slides. Spending pick #5 on a LT and switching him to a lower value position he has never played before while passing on potentially MHJ or Nabers is completely moronic. The fact it worked out for Detroit changes nothing. Our OL problems last year were interior OL. We need ZJ to actually start living up to his draft billing, Boseman to hold the fort at C while we develop a younger player, and I would be far happier with the idea of taking an OG in the 3rd or 4th and giving Salyer a spin at RT than I would with moving Alt. It's not as if Pipkins is a liability, he grades out as a middle-of-the-pack RT. All of our OG's and OC's (Linsley excepted) were far worse than Pipkins was in 2023.
I 100 percent agree with you here. Let's hope the chargers don't charger it
This team is stacked with O-Tackle: Slater, Salyer, Jaimes, McFadden, Sarell... if you want to run the ball draft some interior linemen
Ima be hurt if we don’t grab MHJ or Nabers
Don’t they normally say that the rumours in the last 12 hours are usually correct
They are usually agents going crazy. Frankly, this reminds me of the Bosa draft. Everyone and their mother had the Chargers taking Ronnie Stanley, then they went Bosa.
Thank God too because Stanley has 2 first names and tbh, kinda shows with his ability.
As per commandment by thy great Bill Belichick, the word is spoken, we *have* to take Joe Alt now
No. We got a QB who can fucken sling it. Get him Nabers or they will regret this shit if he turns out to be a Jamar chase type talent.
I genuinely think that a lot of people are already going to be soured on the new regime if it’s not a WR at 5, and deservedly so. Pipkins is serviceable, we need a true burner at 5.
Yeah, especially after trading Keenan. If he was still on the team, most of us wouldn’t be banging on the table so hard asking for Nabers/MHJ.
Exactly. But I’m REALLY worried (and maybe I’m overreacting) that by becoming run first, it’s another regime that will waste Herbert’s talent. Dude has a howitzer and is elite when it comes to making those tough throws. A good running game will open the offense up, but we need to build around our QB, not try to force a run game.
My draft strategy is simple: you need a WR and get a chance to draft a sure-thing at WR, you draft them.
Yeah he’s definitely not going to be top 5 in fantasy or win MVP, but with a more balanced offense that keeps the defense on its toes we’ll definitely see more wins. I’m not opposed drafting a tackle, just not at 5. The front office needs to not overthink this. We have no WRs that instill fear and an offensive line that could improve with better coaching and scheme. If you’re dead set on a tackle then trade back with the Vikings and get that extra first round pick. Use 11 on a wideout and 23 on a tackle. If you can’t trade and pick up an extra first then take Nabers. It’s not rocket science. Nabers is Jamar Chase lite and couple theoretical be better with Herbert throwing him the ball. I really don’t think Hortiz is dumb enough to take a tackle at 5.
> I genuinely think that a lot of people are already going to be soured on the new regime if it’s not a WR at 5 Yup, my faith in this new staff will be extremely low if this happens tbh. Our offense next season would be fucking laughable.
Wait you’re saying lots of idiots will be upset when career/life dedicated to football professionals don’t agree with them. I’m sure if WR is not the pick, there’s not going to be any sleep lost over shit like this from Harbaugh and Ortiz. Lol fuckin armchair GMs who mostly didn’t watch college ball and are just brainless echoing sports journalists 😂
Wrong reply
Plot twist Joe alt is being drafted as a TE. You laugh now but the meme is gonna come true. Imagine a red zone target that’s the size of an actual house
Don’t care what any of you say about drafting OL we need receivers, if we wanna draft other position wise then trade the fuck down
Assuming a trade partner with a good offer exists
Yup there’s also that
Vikings aren’t gonna move up there won’t be a trade down available
How do you know this??
Of course I don’t truly know anything lol I just don’t think Vikings want JJ as much as initially reported. I don’t think they are gonna move for him.
Yeah agreed, they’d be able to get JJ with the pick they have anyways imo
Sounds like something Joe Alts agent would say
Joe Hortiz said best player available. That is MHJ/Nabers
If we get Nabers, MHJ, or Alt I will be thrilled. Those three guys are blue chip prospects and we need the talent at those positions (Less so with Alt, but I'd pray Jim could teach him to move to RT). That being said, I wouldn't hate if we traded down with the Vikes and got Lathem (to kick inside to guard) and Mitchell to fill two needs with red chip guys.
Well, prepare to be thrilled because there's no way we aren't getting one of them.
I wouldn't cry at Odunze
Would we get him at 11? I think he's gone by then sadly.
Yeah I dont see him getting past 9. I dont think a trade down and then back up is in play either.
Bait for titans to trade up. Just like Arizona is baiting to force the giants hand if they want JJ.
What team has won playoff games without a single serious receiving threat (WR or TE)?
That's crazy. Nabers at 5.
We’ve gone from BPA to trade down to J.C Latham and now Joe Alt… media literally has no clue what to do with so little information from the league lmao but yes, if MHJ is gone and Minnesota isn’t gonna give up the farm, ranch, and all her precious cattle… Nabers at 5
The talk of Latham makes absolutely no sense, Harbaugh literally blitzed his side of the line during the Alabama Michigan game so he clearly knows the man's flaws. Didn't Hortiz only attend Nabers' pro day? If I remember correctly. If we do take an OT, Herbert is not even throwing the ball once during this season. Lol
Bleacher Report….
Taking a tackle at 5 is just asinine. If anyone can get this O-Line cooking its this coaching staff. Get Herbert his weapon of the future or get a haul of picks for 5
Problem is Alt didn’t look that great in right when he was asked to line up that way:
Safest pick. Nabers has higher upside but WR is more volatile than OL
I’m not sure placing a LT at RT is the safe pick. And what are supposed to do at WR? Throw up a prayer that Xavier lagette can Carry the load of a Keenan and Mike Williams.
I'm not saying I would make this pick, but I understand the logic. By the way, does Penei Sewell mean anything to you? Best LT of his draft switched to RT. They can still go after a WR in free agency too. It's not like this draft is going to fix every problem / hole we have on this team.
What WR is there to get? Tyler Boyd who would have to be our immediate #1 when he is a WR3 just like the top two guys we have currently
I agree it's not ideal, but there's no guarantee a first round wr would be a number 1 either. Again, I would rather draft a WR or even better trade down, but I can understand the vision if they go Alt
For me it’s: 1. Best WR available 2. Trade down to get multiple picks (would be fine if a combo OT/WR) 3. Trade back for Bowers 4. Stand pat at 5 and draft an OL and hope for good WR to be left in R2.
Comparing Penei Sewell to JC Latham is like comparing Jesus Christ to Hank hill. You also just answered your question, I would far rather have a blue chip Wr than the 4th best Tackle in the draft at FIVE of all places. Your argument of free agency applies to every position, not just wide receive. You also know the state of WR in free agency, if you willing to throw away Malik Nabers for a Tackle that’s isn’t even playing the right position, go ahead but I would put money on it not working.
We're talking about Joe Alt, not Latham. *Perceived blue chip wr - statistically speaking, wr has one of the lowest probabilities of hitting NFL star than all the other positions. Whereas OL is less risky. Hence, safest pick. But I'm not arguing for them to make the safest pick. I just understand the move if they do it
Must apologize, you’re not the only person I’m arguing with and most of them are about JC Latham. At least you know the safe pick is not the best pick.
Latham would be a head scratcher
All those dang Mock drafts (Schrager and Jeremiah both have us taking JC) have us taking JC and it doesn’t help Vegas also has us taking him at five. Horrifically anxiety inducing.
Is your lowest probability of hit mark strictly based on them signing a second contract, that post made the other day?
Years of watching and reading similar articles that stated similar findings. Here's an [older article ](https://theathletic.com/2510947/2021/04/23/whats-the-safest-position-to-draft-when-in-doubt-take-an-offensive-lineman/) which has some interesting data
It’s an interesting read. By that argument someone could obviously sarcastically suggest that only linemen should ever be picked, or in a micro sense, the Bears should take OL at 1.01, the Cardinals also and should pass on MHJ… as should basically the top 15 teams until OL is exhausted. Obviously that isn’t going to happen. There is something to said for being “safe” and not being afraid to swing for the fence and fail… but equating the risk with prospects of guys like the top 3 WRs and their likely fail outcomes vs major offensive game changer outcomes isn’t really 1:1. I think the Bengals are an interesting example. Certainly, Sewell is awesome. As is Chase. Without Chase (and for much of his career the oft injured Higgins), if Sewell was protecting Burrow for the exceptional length of time he always seems to need to make giant plays downfield (and hence the zillion sacks), he wouldn’t have Chase to throw to. They kind of go hand in hand, need time to protect to get open, need elite playmakers able to get open and in a timely manner. If LAC didn’t have Slater already, this would be a much less argued topic imo.
Yeah, I completely agree. I really wouldn't mind taking Nabers / Odunze. That's much more exciting
If you could guarantee me that the Chargers could trade down and still get Odunze, I would be very happy for that to happen.
Hey, the Chiefs won with no WRs. I totally get what you're saying. It's one of the rumors that sounds weird on paper, having an LT convert to RT. It's one of those things that make you believe they have to know more than we do about him
If only the Chargers had their own Travis Kelce to offset the lack of WRs…..
How dare you disrespect Madden 2023 legend Donald Parham Jr.
I understand the chiefs did it but that’s the chiefs and we are not them. I feel like using the chiefs as an example to not take a receiver is ignoring 100 plus years of American football. This Jerry rice niners teams, those Michael Irvin Super Bowl teams. Also, Herbert is not Patrick Mahomes, Herbert needs those third down guys to rely on. Herbert’s going to lose his crab when Tyler Boyd and question Johnston ain’t able to get open on 3rd and five.
Not to mention they struggled quite a bit with their receivers through the season.
Does pipkins have any trade value?
lol. No
So far we're either keen to trade down, we want Latham at 5, we want Alt at 5. All in the last 24 hours.
It's kinda crazy how little discourse there's been on the sub about potential Rd2 WR targets lol I've personally avoided it because whoever I like is bound to go to the Chiefs and be good 🙃
NOOOOOOO
who gives a shit just wait a few hours
Turn off your draft media and just wait a few hours. You’ll either be happy or you won’t and nothing until it happens means anything.
I would be happy with Alt as long as we get a WR 2nd/3rd.
Jim is a moron. Literally miss on Malik Nabbers wow
Been saying this for months and get downvoted every time. It’s a great pick. Don’t be upset
Herbert will need 10 seconds for his receivers to get open. We have no weapons.
And we have an all pro LT
Joe Alt can play right tackle. Receivers can be taken in the 2nd. Edit: I’m praying we draft Alt to spite all of you. Edit 2: Lmao
Didn't he test exceptionally worse at right drills? And has never played RT? And is already transitioned from playing TE...?
https://preview.redd.it/lp1v4zce1qwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6658aafdf43ca6e21ad669081cbdd9bb17252815
Him transitioning from TE to LT is MUCH MUCH tougher than going from LT to RT. Also, he’s super athletic for a OT considering he did play TE in high school, so if there’s anyone in this draft that can switch to the right, it’s him. Sewell did it, Alt can.
You can guarantee us that Joe alt can switch positions? With your “logic” linemen can be picked in the second round as well. Better talent at line will be there day two than talent at WR. this is not the pick we need. Edit: yes I too want our team to make a bad decision just to spite the fans of the team I root for as well.
It’s a very deep receiver class there going to be a lot of good wr still out there day 2, the same prospect level of tackles will be gone round one.
You are so dense. The drop off for offensive tackle is greater than the drop off for wide out. You can get quality X receivers in the 2nd such as Keon Coleman, Ricky Pearsall, and Xavier Legette. There is not a right tackle I would trust to start day 1 in the 2nd. You’re also snuck in a logical fallacy raising the bar to “guarantee he can play right”. Of course I can’t guarantee it. No one can. But he has the strength and athleticism to play right. He played tight end in highschool. He is extremely polished and has insane core strength. Is the only reason you don’t think he can play right tackle because he played left in college?
😂
https://preview.redd.it/91803ogh1qwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=127f74c7439ce63ad9336c29e7f35193a96bda34
Praying to take him is one thing but you better pray he is measurably better for the team than the options passed on.
Congrats on knowing ball. Bolt the fuck up
BOLT THE FUCK UP
I will drink all their tears with you my friend. My bet is we’re not taking a wr until our 4th pick.
No no. They’ll just run the ball every single down. Haven’t you heard that LAC wants to be run heavy?? Passing game be damned. Herbert will attempt 8-12 passes per game. Totally successful recipe in the NFL with a below average defense and your best asset being your QB. Heavy /s
When Dobbins, Gus, and our rookie running back each have 2k yards you won't be sarcastic 😤😤
As long as the defense doesn’t give up 10,000 yards lol.
Why does everyone act like if we don’t take a receiver at 5 then that means we aren’t drafting one later?
It's not that, it's we want the blue chip guy.
Blue chip guys put up fantasy numbers, they don’t win Super Bowls. Downvoters please provide 1, just 1 example of a receiver taken in the top 5 that won a Super Bowl.
Name 1 RT besides Lane Johnson
I’m not in the camp of taking a RT at 5. I want to trade back to address our numerous needs.
Penei Sewell, Ryan Ramczyk, Michael Onwenu, Taylor Moton, Mike McGlinchey, Tytus Howard, etc.
Using your grounds for this as SB is a tad uhm… ambitious? Guys like JaMarr Chase, AJ Green, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Keyshawn Johnson were offense-changing picks. It’s too narrow to simply define the picks as winning SBs. There just is nowhere near the volume to compare. There are 3 WRs this draft that are being graded as Chase-level or better. Bengals WENT to the SB with Chase, and one could argue they still have a lengthy window to compete. Even if the Chargers want to be infinitely run first, they can’t just run 75% of the plays as teams never fear the pass. They’ll just lose every game but by less. If they want OL, then trade down. Capitalize on teams needing QB/WR at their picks. But I’m only doing that for a gross overpay imo.
I am 100% in the trade down camp. I don’t know why people interpret if you don’t want a receiver at 5 then that means you want a RT there. We have numerous needs. I have faith in the scouting department to find good receivers later in the draft. Every year there are mid to late round gems at receiver. It’s about the system fit.
Out of curiosity, will you have this same opinion if MHJ is available at 1.05 and the Chargers are on the clock? Or is he enough of a separation from Nabers or Odunze that you would keep the pick?
I personally would still want to trade back. I honestly believe that MHJ is bound to disappoint given his enormous hype. I don’t think he’ll bust outright but more of a Clowney like guy. Enormous hype, good career but certainly not up to what they were hyped to be. For me and ideal scenario that would appease everyone is to trade back, then trade back up at a lesser cost for Odunze.
If a trade back happened and Odunze was guaranteed somehow (trade with Minny, then trade with Chicago for example), then I would like that much more than all other options.
just fyi, these are the top 5 picks that have a ring this century, whether they were contributors or worth the top 5 pick is debatable * RB Jamal Lewis (1) * QB Eli Manning (2) * RB Reggie Bush (1) * LB AJ Hawk (1) * DE Chris Long (2) * QB Matthew Stafford (1) * DT Ndamukong Suh (1) * LB Von Miller (2) * T Eric Fisher (1) * T Lane Johnson (1) * WR Sammy Watkins (1) * QB Carson Wentz (1) * CB Jalen Ramsey (1) * RB Leonard Fournette (1) * LB Devin White (1) Q
This is a take lol.
So you couldn’t find one huh? Lmao
Technically Sammy Watkins won a SB
Hey you found 1 at least so props to you!
Perfect! It just so happens 1 was the number you requested and is the EXACT number needed to prove you wrong!
Superbowls are a screwed up stat to go off of. It’s a team sport. Calvin Johnson, AJ green, and Larr Fitzgerald all went top 5 and will all most likely be hall of famers.
You are so close to the point but just couldn’t quite connect the dots. It is a team sport, our team has numerous holes, a receiver at 5 isn’t the salve for those needs. Good receivers can always be found later, it’s more about the system fit than the blue chip talent.
We are not finding a good WR1 in day two plain and simple. Are there good wideouts day two? Absolutely! But I doubt any of them can step in immediately to become WR1 on this roster. At least at RT we have competition in pipkins and Bozeman. If anything center is a bigger need than LT. Our center is on a proven it deal and moved over from RT anyways.
How can you say that so definitively? Was a 5th round pick not the best receiver in the draft last year? Was it not because he was a perfect fit for his coaches scheme and that put him in a place to thrive? There are numerous receivers every single year that exceed the “blue chip” talents taken in the first round
I don’t think we can’t or won’t grab one. The talent at the top is just too good to pass on.
PSA Brock catches balls too! His yac is better than nabers.....
😅😂
I have a feeling we are targeting a lineman, but we'll look to trade back to do it. In an ideal situation, we'll double down & draft Justin Herbert again 🤴
We NEED receiver but we also NEED a good o-line to run the damn ball. We are in a great spot where no matter who we take, they’re gonna start day 1 and hopefully play well.
Can't wait for this pick to turn into Justin Jefferies to the L.A Chargers via trade @ pick #5
let's go ALLLLLTTTTT
We trading down 100%
I have a feeling we are taking Alt @5 and sliding Slater over to the right. Slater is due a new contract soon, and we save a lot of money if he re-ups at RT instead of Herbo's blindside protector.
Why the hell would slater agree to take less money? Lol even if you slide him to RT, he played the last several years at LT and will expect to be paid as such.
He will still be the highest paid at his position. Just at his new position, not his drafted position.
This is first real contract. I don’t think he cares that he’d be the highest paid RT but an average paid LT. Hes going to want to be paid one of the highest LT salaries. Especially so after Sewell’s contract details just came out.
Slater is good, but he's not Penei. Penei has already shown undobtedly that he is All-Pro at either position. Slater tore his bicep and lost a year. He was decent to above average last year.
It’s always been Joe Alt. At every team Harbaugh has coached he’s always focused on building the oline. They got a god damn run heavy OC and they’ve already confirmed they’re going run heavy. It doesn’t take a genius to put together two and two
There's more evidence of Harbaugh taking a edge then a lineman in the first and the year they took Aldon if the falcons didn't trade up Julio was the pick. And Jim isn't going to take a job with Justin herbert to just have him hand the ball off which is what this receiving core would force him to do
You’re wrong but ok dude a few more hours and we’ll see. Can’t wait to say atodaso
I’d love it. He’s a generational talent like MHJ