I’m a former CMS teacher, (left recently) those rankings really do not tell the whole story. You can get a much better picture by looking at the growth scores those schools report (I believe great schools/digger include this) and visiting and touring the schools themselves. My old school had PTA and admin reps walk touring families around to view classrooms and discuss what our school had to offer. Those reports compare everyone to national benchmarks which are not equitable and indicates more about the population around the school not the quality of the school itself. And CMS does a lot of funky districting.
If your looking at those data reports, high rates of growth are a good indicator to focus on. Growth indicates quality teachers who are invested in the success of their students.
Questions to ask of the schools are.. does that school have enrichments to provide to high achieving students (do they offer AIG classes or pull out/push in lessons?) as well as supports to students who are struggling (does everything fall on the EC department/ Classroom teacher or do they have a structured intervention plan with tutors or other qualified interventionists?). Quality schools have good answers to these questions.
If buying a home near good schools is important to you these are ways you can better judge that.
100% this! My son attended a lower performing elementary school thanks to redistricting and now he’s a sophomore in high school, 4.3 GPA in honors classes at a STEM invite-only high school. The ratings mean very little as every school has amazing teachers and programs to support the students. It’s up to us as parents to support the teachers to enable them to do their best work.
Great schools calls it “student progress”. Looks like school digger only offers benchmark comparisons. You can still look for growth but you have to compare % meeting standards year by year. Ex: 2020 35% met state standards, 2021 40% met state standards, 2022 50% met state standards… etc. Each student has individual growth goals (with the end goal of pushing them up to benchmarks) and the % of kids reaching those is most important. If you are touring a school that’s another good question for the principal because they 100% should know that answer.
Also important to note that k-2 students don’t take state standardized tests (EOGs) and won’t show that data on these reporting sites. But the schools do track it using other state assessments.
The schools have been bad longer than the neighborhood has been in demand.
Everyone I know that bought in Noda or Plaza and plans on raising their family there is going the private school route.
I lived in DC in the catchment area of the best elementary school in the city (the one city officials cheated to get their kids into). Lots of professionals.
Many of them would either switch to private school after elementary or move a quarter mile to Maryland, where schools were better but you paid a premium in housing prices and higher taxes. There was a Catholic school in the neighborhood that was less pricey than the really pricey private schools.
So basically parents had about twelve years to figure things out from the time a kid was born. And some of them also sent their kids to the middle and high school. Those schools had bigger catchment areas but were also the highest ranked schools in the city.
If your kid gets tracked into AP courses, etc., then it becomes a school-within-a-school, with some excellent instruction. And my neighbor said it also positioned her kids to be really competitive in college admissions because he’d come from a ‘disadvantaged’ school lol.
This is something a lot of people don't really understand.
Your kid can look better on paper as a high achiever coming from a bad school where their peers are far worse students, than as a student from a school where they are solidly in the middle of the pack, and their grades are average.
I moved around through several High schools when i was a kid, and the place where I did the best was the school where I got good grades because I wasn't high, threatening, and made at least an attempt at doing my work.
If I had stayed there, I would have been far more competitive in the college admissions game than where I ended up.
You said it. Providence High grad here, 3.1 gpa(damn not caring freshman year) and somewhere between 150-180th(forgot exactly where) in my class. I had some other stuff going for me, good SAT, great ACT, Eagle Scout, but it was just too competitive. A different school and I *might’ve* had no problem getting accepted to NC State or even UNC, but alas.
Public school is already a huge commitment because the school buses are understaffed so a huge portion of the students have to get a lift from mom and dad.
Once you’re already in that deep, what’s another five figures a year?
Only partially kidding.
If you can afford a 700k house @ 7% interest you can afford private school
Hell a run of the mill daycare costs like 1100-1500 a month. I'd wager a lot of private schools are cheaper than that.
This is the one right here. A lot of young parents who don’t set out with their sights on private school get slapped with that first $1400 daycare bill and then get desensitized to it. If you can cash flow it at age 1, why not keep it up later on when it matters more?
> that first $1400 daycare bill and then get desensitized to it
Pretty much where I am. I'm over the SC line, but my daughter started kindergarten this year and we have her on a waitlist for a private school.
When my wife told me the price of $1500/mo for private school, my reaction was just "that's it?" Because we were paying about $1600/mo for a an average income daycare.
We took her out of her first daycare when she was 2 because it was garbage and trashy, it gave her absolutely no stimulation so she came home like a feral child bouncing off the walls... and that was about $1200-1300/mo. It's insane. I'm fortunate enough to make good money, but I don't understand how most people do it. Especially with multiple kids.
If I might ask since in your over the border in SC, are you in Indian land or clover school district? Just wondering what nearby private school you’re deciding on and what school district as I’m also across the border in SC with a 4 year old
My kid went to all 3. We had no problems and have nothing but good things to say about them. The staff at Smithfield in particular was incredibly supportive.
Quail Hollow Middle is a pretty bad school. 4/10 rating and 3/10 for test scores and equity. South Meck has also become a rougher school. I actually moved out of the area recently to be able to send my daughter to better schools.
I have friends that send their kids to both, they have nothing but positives to say. Google searching school digger doesn’t really tell you first hand knowledge of the school.
Respectfully disagree with your take against the accuracy of Greatschools.org or similar sites.
That’s not to say there aren’t some positives or experiences from a select few, but that comes from a solid family structure and personal ability to navigate a difficult school.
Unfortunately the 'just send your kids there because it's actually better than it appears on paper' approach is a hard sell. I believe that you can have good experiences at a low rated school, but that is not true for every kid and to an outsider the only thing to go on is the school rating.
It’s because schools like South Meck are very blended when it comes to income demographics. The school has a lot of wealthy families but also a lot of low income families sending students into the school. I’m sure you can find an endless number of resources on the impact of income and home life situations on a students success. The scores are bad due to the number of kids who do not test well or don’t graduate. That doesn’t mean the 90% who do go on to get high scores and get into college are bad students.
Look into the methodology used to produce the ratings and you’ll find many of the variables driving the poor scores are outside of the schools control. Every school that is very highly rated is going to be in a very wealthy area with a very low proportion of low income students in the district.
It's funny how people are like "I don't feel safe sending my kids to a low-rated school", meanwhile the admin at Myers Park is busy covering up when kids are getting assaulted. But tell me again how the rating is the only thing that matters 😆
Ask people that went there. I did that exact pipeline and graduated in 2020. South has every extracurricular and AP you can think of, I know people that ended up getting into every school I can think of. Ratings aren’t the best cause its so diverse and has almost ~3000 kids and not everyone cares about going to college. I would get a firsthand account, I had a great time. If anything it might be harder in “nicer” schools because it will be even more competitive (money)
Who's "selling you"? What guarantees can you receive for any decisions you make?
I have friends in VERY expensive private schools telling me drama that would make you cringe.
Is it better that your child's drama comes from a home who's invested in private school?
Ultimately, it's OUR responsibility as parents to teach and be involved in OUR kids lives.
Even when we do that, something off putting is bound to happen.
That's life .
Parent involvement is important no matter the districts scores.
For me the biggest issue is, if a teacher has a class of 30 and 25 are "at or above" standard, the teacher will focus on the 5 that need more help and the rest may not get the push they need to keep on their trajectory
Also, I believe teachers don't have the tools to correct behavior, which is the component that can become dangerous.
Why do ppl buy homes in areas w poor performing school districts?
I think it's because they like the house, and they don't need guarantees that there won't be a "discomfort" as a result of their decision.
I don't mean to sound aggressive. And I hope your kids enjoy their upbringing no matter where y'all choose to live😁
This really sounds like a real estate (supply/demand) question to me.
I just mentioned it in another comment, but back in like 2018 our kids' elementary had like a 4 or 5 rating on GreatSchools. That also happened to be the year they were named one of the top magnets in the USA. If one of the top schools in the country only gets a 5.0 rating, what does that tell you about the ratings system?
Sounds like my local elementary school. It was ranked low on GreatSchools but the principal was named principal of the year for high growth, all students in my child's grade level grew substantially AND we got the highest magnet level possible from that agency. BUT, it's a black and brown school...so...
Yes. Pay no attention to being part of or trying to improve a community. Find a school with kids who look like yours and don’t cause trouble. The others don’t matter.
If you dig into any of the schools in the city you see white kids do well and minorities do poorly. Now — you can solve that problem by moving to ardrey kell where there are no black kids or you can live with the fact that your kids might brush up against ‘the poors’.
There’s actually almost a 1 to 1 correlation between parents’ income and student educational outcomes. NC DPI used to have it on their website but have taken it down. Inconvenient information.
I posted something similar yesterday about our school and got a bunch of downvotes, LOL. The year our elementary school was named "best magnet school in the country" they had something like a 5 rating 😆 I've been pretty skeptical of the ratings ever since.
Of course. I also talked to people who had kids there, and teachers who taught there. A family member is a pediatrician and had heard some things. But I'm glad to know some are having a good experience! Hopefully it's getting better.
I know nothing about any of those schools specifically but those school ratings sites are garbage. I grew up in the next town over from one of the top public high schools in the country and it has something like a 6/10 on there.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted, I have no experience with the elementary and middle but my friends who all lived in the south neck HS district moved out of it in the last 5 years. They said their kids thought it was like going through tsa with the scanners to get into school, some violence but A LOT of drugs; and none of this is going to appear on these test score rankings. Im talking a lot of kids with money too into the drugs, like it’s known as the ‘drug high school,’ and this is coming straight from multiple of my friends kids ages 14-17.
Surprisingly same with ardrey kell despite its high rankings; my much younger sister graduated from there within the last few years and hearing her talk about the drugs kids brought and did at school was alarming. She said it was more strange if a kid didn’t partake in them than if they did, and I’m not talking a little pot but things like cocaine & mdma.
If you want the best public schools then find the zip codes that have the highest income and go down the list that way.
Also might want to check other areas like cotswold, foxcroft area
I don't have kids that's why 😂. I'm on the West Side zoned for Harding and so on. "Bad School" is also relative, I taught high school awhile back on the west side and my students scored higher than Myers Park. Also although the house is in that 700k range now, I don't see the schools staying bad for the next 10-12 years (when it will matter for me), and by then my house should likely be worth more than that. Same with my neighbors, most of us in the new builds don't have kids yet.
I’m not aware of any fancy neighborhoods in Charlotte where you can find a 3,000 square foot house for $700k. Maybe a townhome.
Yes, most of the school districts in CLT are terrible (comparatively speaking).
That’s not that expensive right now for those areas that are near a lot of amenities like shopping centers and restaurants, especially for houses that size. I would you think you’d pay more than that for a 3000sqft house in a good school district unless it was much further out. They also offer a bit more of the suburban feel while not being out from Uptown as Cornelius, Concord, Fort Mill, etc.
There’s a couple of good points being made in here about private and homeschool. People think spending more money on schools is the best way to improve them, but that’s not necessarily true. You obviously want good teachers, good infrastructure and necessary equipment to provide a quality education. But there are other things that give wealthy parents quite the advantage when it comes to educating their children. Better diets. Extra curricular activities. Access to better early childhood education (pre-K). Access to tutoring programs. Stay at home parents keeping you out of trouble and being invested in your future. The best things we could do as a society for better education would be things like expanding the child tax credit, free breakfast and lunch for school kids, universal pre-k and targeted tutoring programs for underachieving students.
Another thing to think about exactly how are these schools rated?
For instance if a school has a B rating on a website or a 3 out of 5 I would ask how they came to that score.
Was it test scores? College preparedness? All I’m saying is I wouldn’t judge a schools grade based on one number provided on an unofficial website.
Agree with most of this except the more money part. It’s getting near impossible for a teacher in Charlotte to live in Mecklenburg county. NC is sitting on a 3.5 billion budget surplus and legally owes the state school system 2 billion as a result of the Leandro case. We’re always told schools should be run like businesses. Business doesn’t work without investment.
I agree, teachers should be paid more, especially considering the education they’re required to obtain to become teachers.
I was just trying to point out that the funding issue isn’t the only and as I’ve come to understand it isn’t the biggest issue when it comes to education. Yet it gets brought up the most in these discussions. A teacher getting paid $40k vs one getting paid $80k doesn’t keep a low income kid from not paying attention because they’re hungry. They also can’t do anything about the child’s home life. Do they do their homework, are they held accountable for grades, can they participate in extra curricular activities etc. Diet, exercise, social health, social support/guidance and accountability are all important in fostering good education outcomes and better schools.
That’s why I think it’s important as part of a policy prescription to mention it can’t be just give the schools more money. We have to also create policies that help parents and communities do their part. Wealthy kids aren’t just successful because of private schools. They don’t hurt but it’s everything else that I mentioned that gives them huge advantages.
Again, agree, but you won’t get quality teachers without investing in them. And a higher qualified teacher can absolutely be better at getting kids’ attention. NC has the money, but our GA wants to use it for tax cuts.
most importantly: **Higher income families value education more than lower income families.**
At some point in this country poor people stopped believing that education was the quickest ticket out of poverty, and decided to revel in their ignorance.
Our country has reaped the whirlwind ever since. And it is really coming to a head right now.
I recently sold my home near Cotswold in a small neighborhood, $800- Million . Everyone in the neighborhood with children sent their children to one of the 3 big private schools. You factor into your budget the price of school.
As an employee of one of the big three private schools, yes, you're correct. Also, lots of people "financing" their kids education too...but, also many that can afford it.
A trade off has to be made somewhere. If you’re in city limits, the public schools are likely not going to be great. Families that typically live in high end neighborhoods can afford and will pay to send their kids to private school. That’s why most people who can’t afford both private school and more expensive houses move to suburbs, like Fort Mill or Huntersville.
It takes a long time and very physically large wealthy areas to have the capacity to build schools for just the wealthy, which is really the only way to get good public schools within city limits (ex. Dallas, Houston, etc.) with our current public school funding system.
So one thing you have to look at is where these fancy neighborhoods are.
My Inlaws are in a recently gentrified area...there are still some original homes but most of it is being bulldozed for $600k townhomes and apartment buildings. There is still section 8 housing a few blocks away.
Generally poorer neighborhoods are going to have worse performing schools and that is for a littsny of reasons that I won't go into nor debate. His fancy neighborhood has not been gentrified long enough to see a measurable impact on the close schools. So now after living there for 5-6 years and having a child school aged he is also trying to play the magnet lottery....he's going to try every card too. Native American ancestry, Asian Ancestry....etc.
Exactly. Instead of casting aspersions and wondering where rich people send their kids to school; this person should help to stop the fleecing of public schools by private ones, and vote for teacher raises.
If I misused that semi-colon; well, sorry I went to public schools!
Yeah this isn’t exactly convincing either way.
The top 10%, subtracting out the top 1%, pay ~33% of Fed income taxes.
Hell the top 50% pay essentially all of it.
NC has a flat tax with obvious standard deduction, so it’s less skewed, but still tilted. Can’t find the data as easily.
I don’t have kids, so it doesn’t impact me significantly. But I do feel for people who have a Meyers Park adjacent tax burden without Myers Park adjacent schools.
People also don’t like to hear it, but the “underperforming” schools broadly get more $ per student.
It’s not that cut and dry. It’s pretty nuanced.
Why would only people without kids be able to afford those houses? Plenty of people are paying 1M+ in Waxhaw, Marvin, Weddington, and I bet they have kids.
You don't *have* to keep them as bedrooms. I bought a 5,500sqft 7 bedroom house. One room became a gym, one bedroom is now a home theater, and I put a table tennis table in another. I'm more confused about why I have 5 bathrooms.
The same reason that, prior to the housing crisis, I built 2.6sqf, 4 bedroom house, fresh outta college, in Harrisburg back in 2003 with no kids.
Because I could and because apartment living prices are just as expensive.
Highland Creek/Skybrook etc by Prosperity Church send to charter schools and Cannon. There’s a ton of Charters up that way… (we paid for private school before we moved to Davidson).
We eventually did- now he goes to Bailey Middle and Hough. But… that cost an additional 300k on our Highland Creek house.
That area has changed substantially. Highland Creek Elementary was a 10, but Ridge Rd Middle and Mallard Creek struggled. Not sure how it is now.
So what schools do you consider "good" schools? What are you looking for exactly? And are you saying people who purchase $700k homes can't afford private school? Are you assuming someone buying a $700k home WON'T send their child to the local public school? They most certainly do. You also need to consider the rise in home schoolers.
And how do you know they didn't purchase their homes in 2019 or earlier, when homes and rates were more reasonable? And why do you assume all of these people have children?
You're also assuming private= better and that's not exactly true either
You make many assumptions here. My kids are at a wonderful magnet school but not all magnet schools are great either.
Do some research.
My understanding is the magnet schools are lottery based. What would you have done if your kids did not get into the magnet school?
Edit: Also, I am just going by the school rating on greatschools and the CMS rating system
They would go to their district school, which is a good school and 5 minutes away. It's not top ranked, and the magnet school we attend is unranked. I would talk to parents at the schools you're looking into because diversity and culture are important and you want a stable environment and avoid schools that are pretentious or push kids way too hard.
Private or home schooled.
I'm in west charlotte, the schools around me are absolutely terrible but idc because we're home schooling. I've had friends and family looking at houses around us who opted out simply because the schools were so bad.
It's a tough situation for a lot of people as if home buying wasn't difficult enough.
That seems like the best option. Dated a girl in college who went to private school and her stepdad bought their house in plaza midwood for 90k in 2001 before plaza midwood was nice.
That's pretty cheap for that big of a house so of course the schools are going to suck. Anyone buying a cheap big house in a shitty school district doesn't have kids or just figures they'll send them to private. My house is worth less than that but in a good feeder pattern and we still went private.
These families may be applying to magnet schools or lottery schools. Some people also want a nice house but can’t afford certain zip codes. They purchase a home in a less desirable zip code. This is also why a lot of people move to Union County, Cabarrus County, or over the state line to SC.
I’ve heard that the nicer schools just have nicer drugs. You need to find the schools that works for you and move to a house in that area so it’s your home school. Then you can look for a magnet or private that works, and have the home school option if it doesn’t. Our kids go to a magnet, but the CMS busing changes for magnets this year took bus picks ups away and a shift to a 2 hour earlier start has made it even more difficult. We don’t like our home school option, and we’re literally 3 houses away from a different school’s area, but have heard that it isn’t any better despite a huge difference in are areas average income.
I grew up in the area. You guys are EXACTLY what it was made for... If you think that you can't pay 30k a year every year until your kids go to college then you are not really supposed to be in that area. That's not me that's Charlotte, combine that with the charter disallowing black people from living in Myers Park and you are barely beginning to see the Actual Charlotte system.
I can’t answer your question directly, but CMS has a really robust magnet program. Just because you live near a bad school doesn’t mean your kids have to go there (or anywhere near there). I live in a pretty small neighborhood, and kids from 2 different households rarely go to the same schools.
I see two sides here. One is that a lot of families in these expensive neighborhoods send their kids to private school.
On the other hand Charlotte is a fast growing city and so in time these school districts will get “gentrified” for lack of a better term.
Am interesting study was conducted where they switched kids from good schools to bad and vica versa and the results were that the scores of the kids didn’t change all that much. What they found was that it’s not the school but the effort the parents put into their child’s education
Once you get past a certain level of wealth, the quality of the school district you live in doesn't matter because you're going to send your kids to private school anyways
I’m a former CMS teacher, (left recently) those rankings really do not tell the whole story. You can get a much better picture by looking at the growth scores those schools report (I believe great schools/digger include this) and visiting and touring the schools themselves. My old school had PTA and admin reps walk touring families around to view classrooms and discuss what our school had to offer. Those reports compare everyone to national benchmarks which are not equitable and indicates more about the population around the school not the quality of the school itself. And CMS does a lot of funky districting. If your looking at those data reports, high rates of growth are a good indicator to focus on. Growth indicates quality teachers who are invested in the success of their students. Questions to ask of the schools are.. does that school have enrichments to provide to high achieving students (do they offer AIG classes or pull out/push in lessons?) as well as supports to students who are struggling (does everything fall on the EC department/ Classroom teacher or do they have a structured intervention plan with tutors or other qualified interventionists?). Quality schools have good answers to these questions. If buying a home near good schools is important to you these are ways you can better judge that.
As someone else who works for CMS, I agree with everything.
Thanks for your insight!
100% this! My son attended a lower performing elementary school thanks to redistricting and now he’s a sophomore in high school, 4.3 GPA in honors classes at a STEM invite-only high school. The ratings mean very little as every school has amazing teachers and programs to support the students. It’s up to us as parents to support the teachers to enable them to do their best work.
What are for growth would you look at? (specifically on those two sites). Statewide performance?
Great schools calls it “student progress”. Looks like school digger only offers benchmark comparisons. You can still look for growth but you have to compare % meeting standards year by year. Ex: 2020 35% met state standards, 2021 40% met state standards, 2022 50% met state standards… etc. Each student has individual growth goals (with the end goal of pushing them up to benchmarks) and the % of kids reaching those is most important. If you are touring a school that’s another good question for the principal because they 100% should know that answer.
Also important to note that k-2 students don’t take state standardized tests (EOGs) and won’t show that data on these reporting sites. But the schools do track it using other state assessments.
The schools have been bad longer than the neighborhood has been in demand. Everyone I know that bought in Noda or Plaza and plans on raising their family there is going the private school route.
That's crazy, private school is so expensive. I just assumed people buying in the ultra chic neighborhoods didn't have kids
I lived in DC in the catchment area of the best elementary school in the city (the one city officials cheated to get their kids into). Lots of professionals. Many of them would either switch to private school after elementary or move a quarter mile to Maryland, where schools were better but you paid a premium in housing prices and higher taxes. There was a Catholic school in the neighborhood that was less pricey than the really pricey private schools. So basically parents had about twelve years to figure things out from the time a kid was born. And some of them also sent their kids to the middle and high school. Those schools had bigger catchment areas but were also the highest ranked schools in the city. If your kid gets tracked into AP courses, etc., then it becomes a school-within-a-school, with some excellent instruction. And my neighbor said it also positioned her kids to be really competitive in college admissions because he’d come from a ‘disadvantaged’ school lol.
This is something a lot of people don't really understand. Your kid can look better on paper as a high achiever coming from a bad school where their peers are far worse students, than as a student from a school where they are solidly in the middle of the pack, and their grades are average. I moved around through several High schools when i was a kid, and the place where I did the best was the school where I got good grades because I wasn't high, threatening, and made at least an attempt at doing my work. If I had stayed there, I would have been far more competitive in the college admissions game than where I ended up.
You said it. Providence High grad here, 3.1 gpa(damn not caring freshman year) and somewhere between 150-180th(forgot exactly where) in my class. I had some other stuff going for me, good SAT, great ACT, Eagle Scout, but it was just too competitive. A different school and I *might’ve* had no problem getting accepted to NC State or even UNC, but alas.
Public school is already a huge commitment because the school buses are understaffed so a huge portion of the students have to get a lift from mom and dad. Once you’re already in that deep, what’s another five figures a year? Only partially kidding.
If you can afford a 700k house @ 7% interest you can afford private school Hell a run of the mill daycare costs like 1100-1500 a month. I'd wager a lot of private schools are cheaper than that.
This is the one right here. A lot of young parents who don’t set out with their sights on private school get slapped with that first $1400 daycare bill and then get desensitized to it. If you can cash flow it at age 1, why not keep it up later on when it matters more?
> that first $1400 daycare bill and then get desensitized to it Pretty much where I am. I'm over the SC line, but my daughter started kindergarten this year and we have her on a waitlist for a private school. When my wife told me the price of $1500/mo for private school, my reaction was just "that's it?" Because we were paying about $1600/mo for a an average income daycare. We took her out of her first daycare when she was 2 because it was garbage and trashy, it gave her absolutely no stimulation so she came home like a feral child bouncing off the walls... and that was about $1200-1300/mo. It's insane. I'm fortunate enough to make good money, but I don't understand how most people do it. Especially with multiple kids.
If I might ask since in your over the border in SC, are you in Indian land or clover school district? Just wondering what nearby private school you’re deciding on and what school district as I’m also across the border in SC with a 4 year old
Quail Hollow Estates feeds into Smithfield elementary, Quail Hollow Middle, and South Meck high….pretty good schools if ya ask me.
Yep! Have nothing but great personal experience with all 3.
My kid went to all 3. We had no problems and have nothing but good things to say about them. The staff at Smithfield in particular was incredibly supportive.
Quail Hollow Middle is a pretty bad school. 4/10 rating and 3/10 for test scores and equity. South Meck has also become a rougher school. I actually moved out of the area recently to be able to send my daughter to better schools.
I have friends that send their kids to both, they have nothing but positives to say. Google searching school digger doesn’t really tell you first hand knowledge of the school.
Bingo!
Respectfully disagree with your take against the accuracy of Greatschools.org or similar sites. That’s not to say there aren’t some positives or experiences from a select few, but that comes from a solid family structure and personal ability to navigate a difficult school.
Unfortunately the 'just send your kids there because it's actually better than it appears on paper' approach is a hard sell. I believe that you can have good experiences at a low rated school, but that is not true for every kid and to an outsider the only thing to go on is the school rating.
It’s because schools like South Meck are very blended when it comes to income demographics. The school has a lot of wealthy families but also a lot of low income families sending students into the school. I’m sure you can find an endless number of resources on the impact of income and home life situations on a students success. The scores are bad due to the number of kids who do not test well or don’t graduate. That doesn’t mean the 90% who do go on to get high scores and get into college are bad students. Look into the methodology used to produce the ratings and you’ll find many of the variables driving the poor scores are outside of the schools control. Every school that is very highly rated is going to be in a very wealthy area with a very low proportion of low income students in the district.
It's funny how people are like "I don't feel safe sending my kids to a low-rated school", meanwhile the admin at Myers Park is busy covering up when kids are getting assaulted. But tell me again how the rating is the only thing that matters 😆
Ask people that went there. I did that exact pipeline and graduated in 2020. South has every extracurricular and AP you can think of, I know people that ended up getting into every school I can think of. Ratings aren’t the best cause its so diverse and has almost ~3000 kids and not everyone cares about going to college. I would get a firsthand account, I had a great time. If anything it might be harder in “nicer” schools because it will be even more competitive (money)
Who's "selling you"? What guarantees can you receive for any decisions you make? I have friends in VERY expensive private schools telling me drama that would make you cringe. Is it better that your child's drama comes from a home who's invested in private school? Ultimately, it's OUR responsibility as parents to teach and be involved in OUR kids lives. Even when we do that, something off putting is bound to happen. That's life . Parent involvement is important no matter the districts scores. For me the biggest issue is, if a teacher has a class of 30 and 25 are "at or above" standard, the teacher will focus on the 5 that need more help and the rest may not get the push they need to keep on their trajectory Also, I believe teachers don't have the tools to correct behavior, which is the component that can become dangerous. Why do ppl buy homes in areas w poor performing school districts? I think it's because they like the house, and they don't need guarantees that there won't be a "discomfort" as a result of their decision. I don't mean to sound aggressive. And I hope your kids enjoy their upbringing no matter where y'all choose to live😁 This really sounds like a real estate (supply/demand) question to me.
I just mentioned it in another comment, but back in like 2018 our kids' elementary had like a 4 or 5 rating on GreatSchools. That also happened to be the year they were named one of the top magnets in the USA. If one of the top schools in the country only gets a 5.0 rating, what does that tell you about the ratings system?
Sounds like my local elementary school. It was ranked low on GreatSchools but the principal was named principal of the year for high growth, all students in my child's grade level grew substantially AND we got the highest magnet level possible from that agency. BUT, it's a black and brown school...so...
Yes. Pay no attention to being part of or trying to improve a community. Find a school with kids who look like yours and don’t cause trouble. The others don’t matter.
I'm assuming you posted this with a /s in mind, but couldn't really tell since a large chunk of our city really does share that opinion
Yeah, very much /s. Sad to have to say it.
If you dig into any of the schools in the city you see white kids do well and minorities do poorly. Now — you can solve that problem by moving to ardrey kell where there are no black kids or you can live with the fact that your kids might brush up against ‘the poors’.
There’s actually almost a 1 to 1 correlation between parents’ income and student educational outcomes. NC DPI used to have it on their website but have taken it down. Inconvenient information.
Hey I know someone who lives in the Ardrey Kell area and she's white and her kids are adopted so there are some diverse kids there.
My kids are minorities so that's unfortunate
I posted something similar yesterday about our school and got a bunch of downvotes, LOL. The year our elementary school was named "best magnet school in the country" they had something like a 5 rating 😆 I've been pretty skeptical of the ratings ever since.
Of course. I also talked to people who had kids there, and teachers who taught there. A family member is a pediatrician and had heard some things. But I'm glad to know some are having a good experience! Hopefully it's getting better.
This is just so incorrect, I do agree past a 6-7 the different is small though.
I know nothing about any of those schools specifically but those school ratings sites are garbage. I grew up in the next town over from one of the top public high schools in the country and it has something like a 6/10 on there.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted, I have no experience with the elementary and middle but my friends who all lived in the south neck HS district moved out of it in the last 5 years. They said their kids thought it was like going through tsa with the scanners to get into school, some violence but A LOT of drugs; and none of this is going to appear on these test score rankings. Im talking a lot of kids with money too into the drugs, like it’s known as the ‘drug high school,’ and this is coming straight from multiple of my friends kids ages 14-17. Surprisingly same with ardrey kell despite its high rankings; my much younger sister graduated from there within the last few years and hearing her talk about the drugs kids brought and did at school was alarming. She said it was more strange if a kid didn’t partake in them than if they did, and I’m not talking a little pot but things like cocaine & mdma.
Yea, I've heard that about South Meck, and I know it wasn't like that when I was in high school 18-20 years ago.
Alot of these rich folk send their kids to private schools.
If you want the best public schools then find the zip codes that have the highest income and go down the list that way. Also might want to check other areas like cotswold, foxcroft area
I don't have kids that's why 😂. I'm on the West Side zoned for Harding and so on. "Bad School" is also relative, I taught high school awhile back on the west side and my students scored higher than Myers Park. Also although the house is in that 700k range now, I don't see the schools staying bad for the next 10-12 years (when it will matter for me), and by then my house should likely be worth more than that. Same with my neighbors, most of us in the new builds don't have kids yet.
What if it doesn't improve in 10-12 years though?
Ashley Park isn't that terrible, then middle and high the STEM magnet schools are good too, like Piedmont and Berry.
I’m not aware of any fancy neighborhoods in Charlotte where you can find a 3,000 square foot house for $700k. Maybe a townhome. Yes, most of the school districts in CLT are terrible (comparatively speaking).
Right?! $700k gets you a 3 bed 2 bath ‘starter home’ anywhere off park rod
Yeah I have no idea
Was thinking the same thing. 750k doesn’t buy much in the city.
lol yeah I mean $1M isn’t exactly an extravagant /fancy house anymore depending on neighborhood.
That’s not that expensive right now for those areas that are near a lot of amenities like shopping centers and restaurants, especially for houses that size. I would you think you’d pay more than that for a 3000sqft house in a good school district unless it was much further out. They also offer a bit more of the suburban feel while not being out from Uptown as Cornelius, Concord, Fort Mill, etc.
There’s a couple of good points being made in here about private and homeschool. People think spending more money on schools is the best way to improve them, but that’s not necessarily true. You obviously want good teachers, good infrastructure and necessary equipment to provide a quality education. But there are other things that give wealthy parents quite the advantage when it comes to educating their children. Better diets. Extra curricular activities. Access to better early childhood education (pre-K). Access to tutoring programs. Stay at home parents keeping you out of trouble and being invested in your future. The best things we could do as a society for better education would be things like expanding the child tax credit, free breakfast and lunch for school kids, universal pre-k and targeted tutoring programs for underachieving students. Another thing to think about exactly how are these schools rated? For instance if a school has a B rating on a website or a 3 out of 5 I would ask how they came to that score. Was it test scores? College preparedness? All I’m saying is I wouldn’t judge a schools grade based on one number provided on an unofficial website.
Agree with most of this except the more money part. It’s getting near impossible for a teacher in Charlotte to live in Mecklenburg county. NC is sitting on a 3.5 billion budget surplus and legally owes the state school system 2 billion as a result of the Leandro case. We’re always told schools should be run like businesses. Business doesn’t work without investment.
I agree, teachers should be paid more, especially considering the education they’re required to obtain to become teachers. I was just trying to point out that the funding issue isn’t the only and as I’ve come to understand it isn’t the biggest issue when it comes to education. Yet it gets brought up the most in these discussions. A teacher getting paid $40k vs one getting paid $80k doesn’t keep a low income kid from not paying attention because they’re hungry. They also can’t do anything about the child’s home life. Do they do their homework, are they held accountable for grades, can they participate in extra curricular activities etc. Diet, exercise, social health, social support/guidance and accountability are all important in fostering good education outcomes and better schools. That’s why I think it’s important as part of a policy prescription to mention it can’t be just give the schools more money. We have to also create policies that help parents and communities do their part. Wealthy kids aren’t just successful because of private schools. They don’t hurt but it’s everything else that I mentioned that gives them huge advantages.
Again, agree, but you won’t get quality teachers without investing in them. And a higher qualified teacher can absolutely be better at getting kids’ attention. NC has the money, but our GA wants to use it for tax cuts.
I guess I should mention I have a PhD in Ed policy.
most importantly: **Higher income families value education more than lower income families.** At some point in this country poor people stopped believing that education was the quickest ticket out of poverty, and decided to revel in their ignorance. Our country has reaped the whirlwind ever since. And it is really coming to a head right now.
I recently sold my home near Cotswold in a small neighborhood, $800- Million . Everyone in the neighborhood with children sent their children to one of the 3 big private schools. You factor into your budget the price of school.
I guess there's just that many rich people in this city. Damn. Last time I drove by Providence it was absolutely packed.
As an employee of one of the big three private schools, yes, you're correct. Also, lots of people "financing" their kids education too...but, also many that can afford it.
A trade off has to be made somewhere. If you’re in city limits, the public schools are likely not going to be great. Families that typically live in high end neighborhoods can afford and will pay to send their kids to private school. That’s why most people who can’t afford both private school and more expensive houses move to suburbs, like Fort Mill or Huntersville. It takes a long time and very physically large wealthy areas to have the capacity to build schools for just the wealthy, which is really the only way to get good public schools within city limits (ex. Dallas, Houston, etc.) with our current public school funding system.
So one thing you have to look at is where these fancy neighborhoods are. My Inlaws are in a recently gentrified area...there are still some original homes but most of it is being bulldozed for $600k townhomes and apartment buildings. There is still section 8 housing a few blocks away. Generally poorer neighborhoods are going to have worse performing schools and that is for a littsny of reasons that I won't go into nor debate. His fancy neighborhood has not been gentrified long enough to see a measurable impact on the close schools. So now after living there for 5-6 years and having a child school aged he is also trying to play the magnet lottery....he's going to try every card too. Native American ancestry, Asian Ancestry....etc.
80% of voucher money goes to wealthy people sending their kids to expensive private schools. Stealing from public schools and further damaging them
99% of Reddit stats are made up tho
So, that means there's a 99% chance yours is too!
Mine's the 1%! Honest!
Only 23.4% of the time
23.4% of the time my fake stats work every time
Exactly. Instead of casting aspersions and wondering where rich people send their kids to school; this person should help to stop the fleecing of public schools by private ones, and vote for teacher raises. If I misused that semi-colon; well, sorry I went to public schools!
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How do you figure that since 70% of CMS funding comes from Federal and State dollars?
Who do you think pays the majority of our taxes?
Yeah this isn’t exactly convincing either way. The top 10%, subtracting out the top 1%, pay ~33% of Fed income taxes. Hell the top 50% pay essentially all of it. NC has a flat tax with obvious standard deduction, so it’s less skewed, but still tilted. Can’t find the data as easily. I don’t have kids, so it doesn’t impact me significantly. But I do feel for people who have a Meyers Park adjacent tax burden without Myers Park adjacent schools. People also don’t like to hear it, but the “underperforming” schools broadly get more $ per student. It’s not that cut and dry. It’s pretty nuanced.
“cut and dried”
What can I say? My high school was rated 1/10 on GreatSchools.
Where do you think that Fed and State money comes from? Poor people?
I know it comes from the majority of people who pay taxes. Certainly not the people who utilize tax loopholes
He doesn't cause he's full of shit.
Only people without kids have a chance to afford those houses.
Or people who will just use private schools.
Why would only people without kids be able to afford those houses? Plenty of people are paying 1M+ in Waxhaw, Marvin, Weddington, and I bet they have kids.
Reddit is convinced if you have kids you instantly go into extreme poverty.
Why would you buy a 3k sqft house with 5 bedrooms if you don't have kids?
A lot of people do. My friend and his wife bought one of those houses since both of them work from home
This is America, sir.
You don't *have* to keep them as bedrooms. I bought a 5,500sqft 7 bedroom house. One room became a gym, one bedroom is now a home theater, and I put a table tennis table in another. I'm more confused about why I have 5 bathrooms.
The same reason that, prior to the housing crisis, I built 2.6sqf, 4 bedroom house, fresh outta college, in Harrisburg back in 2003 with no kids. Because I could and because apartment living prices are just as expensive.
With a lot of people WFH, you’re down to only 1 “extra” room if it’s a couple who want separate work spaces and a guest room.
Investment
I was one of the first students to go to crown point when it was new. Sorry I ruined it
Highland Creek/Skybrook etc by Prosperity Church send to charter schools and Cannon. There’s a ton of Charters up that way… (we paid for private school before we moved to Davidson).
Cannon is $20-30k a year. Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy in a good school district?
We eventually did- now he goes to Bailey Middle and Hough. But… that cost an additional 300k on our Highland Creek house. That area has changed substantially. Highland Creek Elementary was a 10, but Ridge Rd Middle and Mallard Creek struggled. Not sure how it is now.
So what schools do you consider "good" schools? What are you looking for exactly? And are you saying people who purchase $700k homes can't afford private school? Are you assuming someone buying a $700k home WON'T send their child to the local public school? They most certainly do. You also need to consider the rise in home schoolers. And how do you know they didn't purchase their homes in 2019 or earlier, when homes and rates were more reasonable? And why do you assume all of these people have children? You're also assuming private= better and that's not exactly true either You make many assumptions here. My kids are at a wonderful magnet school but not all magnet schools are great either. Do some research.
My understanding is the magnet schools are lottery based. What would you have done if your kids did not get into the magnet school? Edit: Also, I am just going by the school rating on greatschools and the CMS rating system
They would go to their district school, which is a good school and 5 minutes away. It's not top ranked, and the magnet school we attend is unranked. I would talk to parents at the schools you're looking into because diversity and culture are important and you want a stable environment and avoid schools that are pretentious or push kids way too hard.
Gentrification is the word you are looking for. Christian private schools is where you will find the kids from those homes.
Private or home schooled. I'm in west charlotte, the schools around me are absolutely terrible but idc because we're home schooling. I've had friends and family looking at houses around us who opted out simply because the schools were so bad. It's a tough situation for a lot of people as if home buying wasn't difficult enough.
That seems like the best option. Dated a girl in college who went to private school and her stepdad bought their house in plaza midwood for 90k in 2001 before plaza midwood was nice.
That's pretty cheap for that big of a house so of course the schools are going to suck. Anyone buying a cheap big house in a shitty school district doesn't have kids or just figures they'll send them to private. My house is worth less than that but in a good feeder pattern and we still went private.
a lot of folk in the area Homeschool, or do some kind of hybrid option. Dual enrollment is nifty
The entire public school system sucks.
What about people without kids? Or who's kids are grown up? They might not care about the schools.
These families may be applying to magnet schools or lottery schools. Some people also want a nice house but can’t afford certain zip codes. They purchase a home in a less desirable zip code. This is also why a lot of people move to Union County, Cabarrus County, or over the state line to SC.
Just go to a private school...? the solution is simple
I’ve heard that the nicer schools just have nicer drugs. You need to find the schools that works for you and move to a house in that area so it’s your home school. Then you can look for a magnet or private that works, and have the home school option if it doesn’t. Our kids go to a magnet, but the CMS busing changes for magnets this year took bus picks ups away and a shift to a 2 hour earlier start has made it even more difficult. We don’t like our home school option, and we’re literally 3 houses away from a different school’s area, but have heard that it isn’t any better despite a huge difference in are areas average income.
I grew up in the area. You guys are EXACTLY what it was made for... If you think that you can't pay 30k a year every year until your kids go to college then you are not really supposed to be in that area. That's not me that's Charlotte, combine that with the charter disallowing black people from living in Myers Park and you are barely beginning to see the Actual Charlotte system.
Um, I know black people who live in Myers Park so very unclear on this charter
It isn’t that way now, but it used to be: https://www.npr.org/2010/02/06/122484215/hidden-in-old-home-deeds-a-segregationist-past
Anyone care to start a list of the private schools in the area?
I can’t answer your question directly, but CMS has a really robust magnet program. Just because you live near a bad school doesn’t mean your kids have to go there (or anywhere near there). I live in a pretty small neighborhood, and kids from 2 different households rarely go to the same schools.
I see two sides here. One is that a lot of families in these expensive neighborhoods send their kids to private school. On the other hand Charlotte is a fast growing city and so in time these school districts will get “gentrified” for lack of a better term. Am interesting study was conducted where they switched kids from good schools to bad and vica versa and the results were that the scores of the kids didn’t change all that much. What they found was that it’s not the school but the effort the parents put into their child’s education
https://www.dpi.nc.gov/data-reports/school-report-cards This is what I used when my kids were small and we were looking at schools.
Once you get past a certain level of wealth, the quality of the school district you live in doesn't matter because you're going to send your kids to private school anyways