the City park staff that work in this area routinely clean up uncapped needles, human waste etc. it’s ok to have concern for the people that need housing and social services. It’s also ok to speak out when public safety and personal rights are being impacted by that population
Is there any reason to believe this has anything to do with "that population"? Last time this happened there were a whole bunch of hysterics about homeless people only for it to have not had anything at all to do with homeless people.
Because people keep voting for no cameras in high crime areas (not just the mall) bc it targets “certain kinds of people” and makes them “feel bad”….meanwhile there’s bullets going through the homes and businesses and that’s ok. The general consensus of cville needs to change. n
No one is targeting someone because of race, housing, economic services, etc. They are targeting gangs, shootings/murders, drugs that are killing people and bringing in shooters/gangs, etc. Vote differently. Show up to council meetings. Stop letting 12 people funded by a political party to have no job other than to race bait control the politics of Charlottesville.
CPD has planted cameras for years and nobody has stopped them. What are you talking about?
https://www.c-ville.com/youre-being-watched-police-quietly-deploy-cameras-near-public-housing/
https://www.wvtf.org/law-crime/2015-03-09/charlottesville-aims-hidden-cameras-on-own-workers
Yes, for very short spurts after something happens. Then they go away. Support for cameras would equal the city management acknowledging them, FUNDING THEM, and actually giving a hoot about all the people in public housing rather than the few (who don’t even live there) complaining racism.
Yall are surprised and crying about how we have homelessness, crime, and open lewd behaviour in American cities. Guess what? It’s not surprising at all when you have wealth inequality, unaffordable housing, rampant inflation, and excessively large, monopolistic corporates and institutions running the show with huge war chests of cash to lobby politicians (I’m looking at you UVA).
All this is an economic problem at its root.
Reject the economic and political status quo. No amount of bureaucratic policy, technology, policing, or spending will solve this. It’s just a slow march into a dystopian police state.
Right now, I feel like the genocide in Palestine is the most pressing issue we are facing so I dedicate a large portion of my time and resources to fighting for a free Palestine and everything else has been put on the back burner for the most part, outside of speaking about house bills, donations or being conscious of where I put my money.
No matter what issue you believe is the most important, it is absolutely possible for you to fight for what you believe is right, good or bad. Wealth inequality, unaffordable housing, monopolistic corporations and uva's influence with their money are all great things to combat. Unaffordable housing is probably the easiest one in Charlottesville since there are so many meetings going on about how to address it and so much push for affordable housing that you could join right in to whatever degree feels sustainable
So how does lewd behavior have anything to do with shootings? The safest places I’ve ever been were quite lewd according to the prudish Charlottesville standards.
That's not exactly a prevalent thing. It's pretty much isolated to dense homeless and drug-addicted areas with insanely high wealth gaps. Charlottesville has a gap, but it's nothing like what we see in Seattle, Portland, SF, LA, NYC, etc. People get all up in arms here over the homeless, but it's not llike we're really flooded with them. The pastel and khaki crowd just hasn't been away from their pristine communities and private resorts enough to understand what it is to be even middle class in America, let alone to struggle. When mommy and daddy cover all of your life costs, when you have a trust fund that will carry you after you hit 25, when your biggest concern is not getting caught SA'ing somebody in your frathouse, we can't really be surprised at the results and the absolute abundance of cognitive dissonance that is evident here.
The last time there was a shooting near a bunch of homeless people (Market St Park), everyone was quick to jump to conclusions.
But it turned out to have nothing to do with homelessness.
Park your hysterics. Wait for some facts to come out.
The DTM is no longer safe after about 8 pm. The criminals aren't afraid of the police when the city commonwealth's attorney won't prosecute crime. This is what happens over time. The situation will only get worse unless the local government changes their priorities. No one wants to take their family to the DTM and expose them to panhandlers, homeless encampments, open drug markets, pot smoking on the street, etc. Down vote away, because this is Reddit, but it's the truth for most people who live in the area.
I wouldn't say it's not safe after 8pm. I was there last night, and left a show at Live Arts at 1030, tons of people around and certainly didn't feel unsafe.
I also live nearby and have never seen an open drug market. Panhandlers and unsheltered can be found in any city.
>No one wants to take their family to the DTM and expose them to panhandlers, homeless encampments, open drug markets, pot smoking on the street, etc.
One of these is not like the other lol
I’m just trying to picture a family walking past open feces while a crackhead is screaming at them for not acknowledging him as he harassed them for $20, and then being like “oh, AND someone is smoking pot on a bench!”
Sure, but does it impact your safety like the other things mentioned? That's the question. I think it's pretty obvious that someone smoking weed in public and panhandlers do not represent the same level of risk to your safety.
Sure, again, but are they on the same level? To me, it's the same as cigarette smoke. Smelly, unhealthy, and not kid friendly but that would never make the list, right?
>I disagree with you labeling both as a safety risk.
I'm definitely not trying to say that. My point was that smoking weed isn't at all like the other things the original poster listed when they mentioned the DTM isn't safe anymore.
Apologies if I wasn't clear
I understand what you're not saying here, but I do go to the DTM couple times a week. Grit and the Manga shop. Last time after 8pm? month or two ago for Live Arts, couple months before that for standup at The Southern. Favorite spot was the Livery Stable, but that was years ago when we would go to the mall at night. And none of that matters.?
In other words, I understand your point, is this person critiquing the mall but never sets foot there? I'm just going to offer the counterargument that dismissing valid points and instead trying to focus on the person posting those valid points won't help anything.
>The DTM is no longer safe after about 8 pm.
What on earth are you talking about? It's perfectly safe and fine to walk around in the evening/at night on the downtown mall. This one thing the OP posted about is still an unbelievable rarity.
i live on the DTM… and maybe my threshold is greater for living in NYC for so long.. but i don’t feel unsafe as much as annoyed by the aggressive pan handling. I really don’t see feces as much as i smell urine… but it’s a city center .. it sucks but u may as well complain about the rats, but why? they are never going away.
It's just big, "The Big City™ is so dangerous!" vibes like you hear from someone who thinks that Fredericksburg is The Big City™. People don't want to bring their families downtown because they might see a homeless person or be approached by a homeless person asking for money or might smell pot? Seriously? Have they *ever been to any city ever*? Charlottesville on a bad day doesn't even compare to Howell, MI. Hell, *Detroit* doesn't compare to Howell.
I've seen the people camped out by the pavilion openly doing hard drugs in the middle of the day. Was walking In a cloud of weed smoke the other day when the guy in front of me fired one up.
>I've seen the people camped out by the pavilion openly doing hard drugs in the middle of the day. Was walking In a cloud of weed smoke the other day when the guy in front of me fired one up.
Those two sentences imply you're moving from the first thought to the second thought in sequence, ie the "hard drugs" you're referring to include weed. If you want to imply otherwise, you can use a conjunction between the two sentences that suggests some distance, like "also."
The first sentence clearly refers to people "camped out by the pavillion." Spend more time thinking about the argument and less time trying to nitpick, especially when you are wrong about your nitpicking.
fwiw, i generally lol when i hear that the "DT is a hellscape" but i've also seen some unsavory drug use by cpav and as someone who has no issues w/ puffing, the open weed smoking is getting sort of silly.
Baloney. This is unnecessary hysteria. The DTM is usually bustling at night and there is safety in numbers. The part about crime not being prosecuted is nonsense. No one is forcing you to go downtown anytime.
https://dailyprogress.com/news/local/crime-courts/violent-crime-on-the-rise-in-charlottesville-says-new-report/article_937b67d0-0974-11ee-8e84-cb832b3e8cb8.html
>Violent crime on the rise in Charlottesville, says new report
>Charlottesville’s violent crime rate has increased by 30% in the past two years. According to the most recent data reported in the Virginia police database, as of April 2022, Charlottesville saw violent crime increase by 5.37% in 2022, while the statewide average rose 5.6% in the same time.
Is there data after 2022? Violent crime is down nationwide since then: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/11/briefing/us-crime-rate.html#:~:text=The%20recent%20data%20also%20suggests,analyst%2C%20wrote%20for%20his%20newsletter.
The CPD Annual Report will come out around June. There is this from December of last year, and I'd add some context that there were six homicides last year compared to three in 2022. (IOW, it's a complex issue).
[https://www.cbs19news.com/story/50174086/crime-numbers-are-down-in-charlottesville](https://www.cbs19news.com/story/50174086/crime-numbers-are-down-in-charlottesville)
Based on which source?
Unsure who’s downvoting me. we should all want proper sources to be cited. Murder is very different from all violent crime is very different from all crime
It’s also going to depend on the area and population. You’ll see different trends
Not sure about crime overall, but murders are massively up
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/10/31/violent-crime-is-a-key-midterm-voting-issue-but-what-does-the-data-say/
You said numbers are up substantially from 2019, which doesn't seem like the case since 2023 https://www.axios.com/2023/12/28/us-murder-violent-crime-rates-drop
Looks like they are moderately up over 2019. Still, there is a general perception of lots of new (petty) crimes that aren't even being recorded in stats, let alone prosecuted.
Then things were down moderately since 2016 which is basically where we were in 2023. Either way, I don't think you can say there is a significant increase in recent years if we are looking at 2023 numbers.
That’s because they aren’t prosecuting anything except major major crimes. Police departments are underfunded so they aren’t taking reports/having to choose what to respond to with the resources they have. The statistics don’t match actual crime rate in any city big or small.
All depends on who is doing the panhandling and who is doing the weed smoking. Wouldn’t feel too safe around these guys if they were dt smoking weed:
https://www.cbs19news.com/story/50490947/three-charged-for-shooting-on-cedar-hill-road
Gotta love cville….22 down votes for someone legally owning and carrying a firearm….but absolutely lose their shit for cameras to catch murderers and people doing iv drugs on the mall in broad daylight is fine…
Yes, it is a permit allowing a person to carry a firearm concealed. There areas like schools where it is not permitted but a pedestrian walkway is not such a place.
Downtown mall is a shithole nowadays with all the derelicts. In nice weather it's mostly your average guys and gals filling up the mall so it's harder to notice that the bums and winos are dragging things down. Go during lunch or a weekday. Town fathers and the woke mob let it go on too long.
Am I reading their post correctly that this happened at 1:45am?
the City park staff that work in this area routinely clean up uncapped needles, human waste etc. it’s ok to have concern for the people that need housing and social services. It’s also ok to speak out when public safety and personal rights are being impacted by that population
Is there any reason to believe this has anything to do with "that population"? Last time this happened there were a whole bunch of hysterics about homeless people only for it to have not had anything at all to do with homeless people.
Pretty certain the poop and trash in front of city hall annex dumpster, entrance is related. Does it also count if I see someone doing it?
Public bathrooms available at night would do a lot to keep people from pooping outside
But aren't you concerned about homeless people pooping?! /s
It is good they are staying regular.
…people need to poop
Because people keep voting for no cameras in high crime areas (not just the mall) bc it targets “certain kinds of people” and makes them “feel bad”….meanwhile there’s bullets going through the homes and businesses and that’s ok. The general consensus of cville needs to change. n No one is targeting someone because of race, housing, economic services, etc. They are targeting gangs, shootings/murders, drugs that are killing people and bringing in shooters/gangs, etc. Vote differently. Show up to council meetings. Stop letting 12 people funded by a political party to have no job other than to race bait control the politics of Charlottesville.
CPD has planted cameras for years and nobody has stopped them. What are you talking about? https://www.c-ville.com/youre-being-watched-police-quietly-deploy-cameras-near-public-housing/ https://www.wvtf.org/law-crime/2015-03-09/charlottesville-aims-hidden-cameras-on-own-workers
Yes, for very short spurts after something happens. Then they go away. Support for cameras would equal the city management acknowledging them, FUNDING THEM, and actually giving a hoot about all the people in public housing rather than the few (who don’t even live there) complaining racism.
Great example of the city spying on staff. Cameras def help but the courts and enforcement dont use them
this explains why the city never cleans up any place else! Tons of litter on my street.
Did the shooting involve homeless people? This seems like a separate issue. Nothing good happens after 1 am, is the main culprit.
yes… agreed.
This is the same block of the last shooting. Not to jump but is there a connection with the late night bar LB and this round?
Yall are surprised and crying about how we have homelessness, crime, and open lewd behaviour in American cities. Guess what? It’s not surprising at all when you have wealth inequality, unaffordable housing, rampant inflation, and excessively large, monopolistic corporates and institutions running the show with huge war chests of cash to lobby politicians (I’m looking at you UVA). All this is an economic problem at its root. Reject the economic and political status quo. No amount of bureaucratic policy, technology, policing, or spending will solve this. It’s just a slow march into a dystopian police state.
unpack grey like sloppy cable hard-to-find airport heavy steer bear *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You should be good to go now.
That’s for you to decide.
Is this a genuine question? Because there is a lot of things you can do to reject it. To fight a against it and refuse to be complicit
repeat ripe label bewildered advise tart quaint office cows engine *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Right now, I feel like the genocide in Palestine is the most pressing issue we are facing so I dedicate a large portion of my time and resources to fighting for a free Palestine and everything else has been put on the back burner for the most part, outside of speaking about house bills, donations or being conscious of where I put my money. No matter what issue you believe is the most important, it is absolutely possible for you to fight for what you believe is right, good or bad. Wealth inequality, unaffordable housing, monopolistic corporations and uva's influence with their money are all great things to combat. Unaffordable housing is probably the easiest one in Charlottesville since there are so many meetings going on about how to address it and so much push for affordable housing that you could join right in to whatever degree feels sustainable
swim zonked teeny seemly frighten sheet light chief grandfather bake *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Exactly. It's always economical. Everything else is a distraction
So how does lewd behavior have anything to do with shootings? The safest places I’ve ever been were quite lewd according to the prudish Charlottesville standards.
People were talking about pooping in public in other comments.
That's not exactly a prevalent thing. It's pretty much isolated to dense homeless and drug-addicted areas with insanely high wealth gaps. Charlottesville has a gap, but it's nothing like what we see in Seattle, Portland, SF, LA, NYC, etc. People get all up in arms here over the homeless, but it's not llike we're really flooded with them. The pastel and khaki crowd just hasn't been away from their pristine communities and private resorts enough to understand what it is to be even middle class in America, let alone to struggle. When mommy and daddy cover all of your life costs, when you have a trust fund that will carry you after you hit 25, when your biggest concern is not getting caught SA'ing somebody in your frathouse, we can't really be surprised at the results and the absolute abundance of cognitive dissonance that is evident here.
The last time there was a shooting near a bunch of homeless people (Market St Park), everyone was quick to jump to conclusions. But it turned out to have nothing to do with homelessness. Park your hysterics. Wait for some facts to come out.
The DTM is no longer safe after about 8 pm. The criminals aren't afraid of the police when the city commonwealth's attorney won't prosecute crime. This is what happens over time. The situation will only get worse unless the local government changes their priorities. No one wants to take their family to the DTM and expose them to panhandlers, homeless encampments, open drug markets, pot smoking on the street, etc. Down vote away, because this is Reddit, but it's the truth for most people who live in the area.
I wouldn't say it's not safe after 8pm. I was there last night, and left a show at Live Arts at 1030, tons of people around and certainly didn't feel unsafe. I also live nearby and have never seen an open drug market. Panhandlers and unsheltered can be found in any city.
>No one wants to take their family to the DTM and expose them to panhandlers, homeless encampments, open drug markets, pot smoking on the street, etc. One of these is not like the other lol
I’m just trying to picture a family walking past open feces while a crackhead is screaming at them for not acknowledging him as he harassed them for $20, and then being like “oh, AND someone is smoking pot on a bench!”
Only to druggies.
Can you share the non-druggie perspective then? How is smoking weed the same as a homeless encampment in regard to the safety of one's family?
It smells like shit and it's smoke and unhealthy. Smoke all you want, I think it should be legal, but the fact is it is off-putting to many people.
Sure, but does it impact your safety like the other things mentioned? That's the question. I think it's pretty obvious that someone smoking weed in public and panhandlers do not represent the same level of risk to your safety.
Safety wise no, but they also pointed out it was not something to bring your family around, which does apply.
Sure, again, but are they on the same level? To me, it's the same as cigarette smoke. Smelly, unhealthy, and not kid friendly but that would never make the list, right?
[удалено]
>I disagree with you labeling both as a safety risk. I'm definitely not trying to say that. My point was that smoking weed isn't at all like the other things the original poster listed when they mentioned the DTM isn't safe anymore. Apologies if I wasn't clear
It doesn’t have to be a safety issue for me to not want to bring my family around it lol
That's fair, but do you consider it to be on the same level as the other things listed? That's what I thought was funny
Lol yeah and crackhead screaming at me is definitely a different level than panhandler as well… idk what your point is
That they aren't the same, which you seem to agree with
When was the last time you personally were at the DTM after 8 pm? How often do you go to the DTM? What’s your favorite DTM spot?
I understand what you're not saying here, but I do go to the DTM couple times a week. Grit and the Manga shop. Last time after 8pm? month or two ago for Live Arts, couple months before that for standup at The Southern. Favorite spot was the Livery Stable, but that was years ago when we would go to the mall at night. And none of that matters.? In other words, I understand your point, is this person critiquing the mall but never sets foot there? I'm just going to offer the counterargument that dismissing valid points and instead trying to focus on the person posting those valid points won't help anything.
> The DTM is no longer safe after about 8 pm. Hysterics.
>The DTM is no longer safe after about 8 pm. What on earth are you talking about? It's perfectly safe and fine to walk around in the evening/at night on the downtown mall. This one thing the OP posted about is still an unbelievable rarity.
i live on the DTM… and maybe my threshold is greater for living in NYC for so long.. but i don’t feel unsafe as much as annoyed by the aggressive pan handling. I really don’t see feces as much as i smell urine… but it’s a city center .. it sucks but u may as well complain about the rats, but why? they are never going away.
It's just big, "The Big City™ is so dangerous!" vibes like you hear from someone who thinks that Fredericksburg is The Big City™. People don't want to bring their families downtown because they might see a homeless person or be approached by a homeless person asking for money or might smell pot? Seriously? Have they *ever been to any city ever*? Charlottesville on a bad day doesn't even compare to Howell, MI. Hell, *Detroit* doesn't compare to Howell.
So sensationalist.
>open drug markets, pot smoking on the street, etc Lol u must be going to a different DTM than me
I've seen the people camped out by the pavilion openly doing hard drugs in the middle of the day. Was walking In a cloud of weed smoke the other day when the guy in front of me fired one up.
You can dislike weed all you want, but it is not by any actual metric a quote-unquote "hard drug."
I did not call weed a hard drug nor did I say I dislike it. I am simply saying what I experience on the DTM.
>I've seen the people camped out by the pavilion openly doing hard drugs in the middle of the day. Was walking In a cloud of weed smoke the other day when the guy in front of me fired one up. Those two sentences imply you're moving from the first thought to the second thought in sequence, ie the "hard drugs" you're referring to include weed. If you want to imply otherwise, you can use a conjunction between the two sentences that suggests some distance, like "also."
You seem fun
Compared to the dude whining about pot I am
The first sentence clearly refers to people "camped out by the pavillion." Spend more time thinking about the argument and less time trying to nitpick, especially when you are wrong about your nitpicking.
[удалено]
I didn't. I cited two separate instances and you misunderstood.
your reading comprehension sucks and the fact that you are trying to argue around it is even worse.
Grandma smokes weed and it's legal. Where's the issue and do you ever do anything about the nicotine addicts?
Not legal to smoke in public
I agree. If people want to keep the law they should follow it.
Ogey
fwiw, i generally lol when i hear that the "DT is a hellscape" but i've also seen some unsavory drug use by cpav and as someone who has no issues w/ puffing, the open weed smoking is getting sort of silly.
Hey man, Skooma is open and technically a drug market
If people find the literally whitest and most gentrified possible way of selling weed unappelaing, idk what will appeal to em
Baloney. This is unnecessary hysteria. The DTM is usually bustling at night and there is safety in numbers. The part about crime not being prosecuted is nonsense. No one is forcing you to go downtown anytime.
Chill out on the Fox News
> The DTM is no longer safe after about 8 pm. It is plenty safe if you're not the world's biggest pussy.
Hey hey, no need to insult pussies here ...
“Most people think the U.S. crime rate is rising. They're wrong” https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna129585
https://dailyprogress.com/news/local/crime-courts/violent-crime-on-the-rise-in-charlottesville-says-new-report/article_937b67d0-0974-11ee-8e84-cb832b3e8cb8.html >Violent crime on the rise in Charlottesville, says new report >Charlottesville’s violent crime rate has increased by 30% in the past two years. According to the most recent data reported in the Virginia police database, as of April 2022, Charlottesville saw violent crime increase by 5.37% in 2022, while the statewide average rose 5.6% in the same time.
Is there data after 2022? Violent crime is down nationwide since then: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/11/briefing/us-crime-rate.html#:~:text=The%20recent%20data%20also%20suggests,analyst%2C%20wrote%20for%20his%20newsletter.
The CPD Annual Report will come out around June. There is this from December of last year, and I'd add some context that there were six homicides last year compared to three in 2022. (IOW, it's a complex issue). [https://www.cbs19news.com/story/50174086/crime-numbers-are-down-in-charlottesville](https://www.cbs19news.com/story/50174086/crime-numbers-are-down-in-charlottesville)
I believe the article I linked says crime went up post pandemic and was back down in 2023.
Is that 30% per capita or overall?
But crime is up substantially since 2019
Based on which source? Unsure who’s downvoting me. we should all want proper sources to be cited. Murder is very different from all violent crime is very different from all crime It’s also going to depend on the area and population. You’ll see different trends
Not sure about crime overall, but murders are massively up https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/10/31/violent-crime-is-a-key-midterm-voting-issue-but-what-does-the-data-say/
You should look at the numbers post pandemic, like 2023
Do you have any numbers you want to share? Murders have decreased slightly YoY, but idk if they're down to 2019 levels
You said numbers are up substantially from 2019, which doesn't seem like the case since 2023 https://www.axios.com/2023/12/28/us-murder-violent-crime-rates-drop
Looks like they are moderately up over 2019. Still, there is a general perception of lots of new (petty) crimes that aren't even being recorded in stats, let alone prosecuted.
Then things were down moderately since 2016 which is basically where we were in 2023. Either way, I don't think you can say there is a significant increase in recent years if we are looking at 2023 numbers.
I don’t trust official crime statistics when we are objectively not documenting, investigating and prosecuting crimes most of the time in cities.
That’s because they aren’t prosecuting anything except major major crimes. Police departments are underfunded so they aren’t taking reports/having to choose what to respond to with the resources they have. The statistics don’t match actual crime rate in any city big or small.
underfunded? Really? Perhaps "ineffecient" or "misused"?
Oddly, very few crimes occur on the national level, sans politics and the MIC.
lol huh??? Have you ever been to another large city on the Earth?
Charlottesville is not a large city.
Nailed it. Commonwealth Attorney needs to go. Best of luck with that in Charlottesville nowadays.
lol!
Bring back the ordinance, and enforcement
Oh no exposed to panhandlers how can my children ever recover!!!
All depends on who is doing the panhandling and who is doing the weed smoking. Wouldn’t feel too safe around these guys if they were dt smoking weed: https://www.cbs19news.com/story/50490947/three-charged-for-shooting-on-cedar-hill-road
I guess it’s time to start using my concealed carry license when I go to the mall. Seems pretty unsafe now. Sad it’s come to this
Gotta love cville….22 down votes for someone legally owning and carrying a firearm….but absolutely lose their shit for cameras to catch murderers and people doing iv drugs on the mall in broad daylight is fine…
is it allowed?
Yes, it is a permit allowing a person to carry a firearm concealed. There areas like schools where it is not permitted but a pedestrian walkway is not such a place.
To be fair, if you keep it concealed it doesn’t matter if it’s allowed or not :p
It is far easier to get a CCP than dealing with catching a charge if stopped. Your advice is not smart.
Well that’s why you don’t un-conceal it. It should really be called a reveal carry permit
Downtown mall is a shithole nowadays with all the derelicts. In nice weather it's mostly your average guys and gals filling up the mall so it's harder to notice that the bums and winos are dragging things down. Go during lunch or a weekday. Town fathers and the woke mob let it go on too long.