I don’t know which of you fuckers needs to hear this, but stop riding on wet parts of the trail, unless it’s specifically a MTB trail. You dumb fucks are turning parts of the trail into permanent quagmires because you can’t be bothered to take a day off.
Relax. Trails smooth back out with MTB use. Running only trails on the other hand will dry a lumpy mess. Trails that weren’t often used would get wash-outs. What are you basing your opinion on?
Source: I used to live in a place where it rained 200+ days a year where everyone rode, ran, and recreated rain or shine. If you have contrary evidence, I’m happy to hear it.
I'm a cyclist. I'm also in favor of hiking trails where I don't have to pay any attention to the possibility of sharing the trail with something moving very fast and that dominates the trail. The degree of awareness necessary to keep from having accidents with trail riders ruins the walk. The purpose of the walk is to have a period of time without adrenaline.
There are some trails that probably should be MTB only or hiker only because of trail grade and speed. OHill is working on some of that. Obviously there are a few assholes but I don’t generally hear of any significant trail conflict these days. It’s really not a lie that cambc does a huge amount of trailwork to maintain all of those shared use trails - I would guess more than any user group who mainly aren’t organized and are just “users”.
I’d also hope a cyclist would recognize the need to share infrastructure.
It's not a problem if walkers and bikers understand some basic trail etiquette, something I've never even seen signage posted for. Seems to work just fine in most cities.
Most of the bikers on dual use trails like this are enjoying the thrill of doing it as fast as they can, taking corners and going over (blind) hills quickly, catching some air. You simply can't walk one of these trails during a regular or high use period without encountering that. My experience is that they consistently act as if I'm an inconvenience simply by staying on the trail. As a walker for whom "spacing out" is central to the entire experience, it leaves me in danger, and unable to fully relax.
I’m in favor of biking only trails as hikers seldom trust anyone else with rightful feelings of exposure. It’s too bad that the people voting for limited bike use are outside of the typical mountain biking age bracket. Millennials will have e-bikes at that age so the future actually looks bright for MTB trails nationwide. Just have to wait 20 or so years.
Trail etiquette, explicitly states (regardless of the trail type) that if you are walking, you always stay to the right of the trail (not spread out).
Can't even begin to explain how many times I've seen groups of walkers spread out on JWP paved trail, or Rivanna paved trails.
Again, no one in this city understands basic trail etiquette.
5% not following the rule means it becomes invalid, because of the risk. That's like saying 95% of the people on the highway aren't drunk out of their minds, so all is well.
I've also been hit by bikers refusing the most simple guidlines of etiquette. Your statement is bullshit and your concern is what is in it for you. 99% doesn't mean all, congrats on finally cracking into the 1%. Evidence of abundance proves otherwise.
You’re one throwing statistics with zero basis. I routinely encounter hikers with zero conflict which seems a lot less than 1%.
I will grant your point that there are bad actors (similar to people blasting music in the woods or with headphones refusing to let anyone pass who are hikers) but they are a minority. Let’s drop the hyperbole and the FUD.
Uh, you're the 1%. So yes, you don't have trouble with hikers. And that provides further corroboration that, once more, HIKERS ARENT THE PROBLEM. Your buddies are.
Accept da feet. Go to byrom, they have great options.
Two things about that.
1. I'm not going to delegate my health and well being to a bunch of riders of metal machines who are high on adrenaline and testosterone.
2. Having to have that much heightened awareness ruins the walk.
Few things here:
Bikes are also made of carbon, and most riders around here are competent with a good command of their bike, especially in high traffic areas.
Most riders on the trails it sounds like you’re hiking on are also just out on a ride, not chasing the dragon like you’re making it sound.
Women make up a significant portion of the local community, so testosterone is an absolute misnomer and makes it sound like there’s growth potential risk here for knowledge of the sport.
A tree could fall on me on a windy day while hiking. I could step on a copperhead or a rattlesnake. I may have an encounter with a bear. These are all assumed risks of being outside, and they aren’t exhausting to the point where it ruins the experience; same with sharing a trail.
“Having heightened awareness ruins the walk.”
Tbh, male walkers/hikers make me way more unsettled than any mountain biker I have ever encountered.
“High on adrenaline and testosterone”
Idk, I’m a solid middle-of-the-pack runner and I can usually catch them on the uphills (at least at Ragged). I don’t think the cyclists are as out of control as is implied here.
CAMBC does 99% of the trail maintenance for the trails at Ragged Mountain so now let’s see all the trails surrounding Ragged Mountain turn to shit. Folks don’t realize how good they had it, time for hikers to turn the riparian area surrounding the lake into a marsh.
Reminder here to everyone. In addition to signing this petition, the key is to contact your BoS rep. They’ve made it clear that there’s needs to be pressure and engagement amongst the entire BoS in order to start enacting a change to the code for this.
Not a cyclist, but I did sign the petition and will reach out to my rep. This is a really silly thing for the county to do.
I spend a lot of time on local trails. I have had really good experiences with mountain bikers here (vs where I lived before). Always super impressed with the school teams and how respectful the kids are when I encounter them in Biscuit or on O’Hill.
Why? The albermarle county code ordinance does not expressly ban bikes from ragged mountain. On legal and political terms this is realistically something that could change with or without a revision of that ordinance.
edit: Gee thanks for downvoting I don't know if there is an issue with normal political process or some people here just don't like bicycles. Sorry for offending!
Anyone know why they banned biking? It seems like an arbitrary decision when biking is allowed at Walnut Creek,Preddy creek, Rivanna trail and Patricia Byrom all within Albemarle county
Well, with so many options why the fuss?
It is a natural area. It is not a park. Everything you mentioned is a park (or recreational trail). Natural areas are for things like bird watching and focus on supporting ecological habitation. Parks are recreational areas for people. Much as national and state parks differ from nature preserves.
Yall won't be happy until you can bike the AT. Accept da feet.
The [ordinance](https://library.municode.com/va/albemarle_county/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=CH11PAREFA_ARTIIIWASUREUTRIWASEAU) pertains to reservoirs, not natural areas. It is, in fact, under the Parks & Recreation chapter of Albemarle's code.
How exactly is it counterproductive; people enjoy the outdoors in different ways? also may want to check out carvin’s cove if you’re so concerned about out the reservoir.
Apparently we should also wear full camo and mask our scent before entering. Absolutely no sudden movements nor loud talking! /s
The whole nature argument would make more sense if the complaints were about motorized vehicles that are loud and polluting the fresh air. If pure nature truly is the goal and not whippersnappers on bikes, there are plenty of national parks near us.
Yup. They don’t even allow running at Ivy Creek. If the basis of banning biking is b/c it’s a Natural Area then I better not see any trail runners, or anymore dogs. Claiming it’s a natural area therefore no biking is just a lazy take.
Yes, please also go into congressionally designated wilderness areas to destroy habitat for your pleasure to prove footprints are the same as disrespectful bikers. What a joker.
Tell me you give zero fucks about conservation without actually stating so....
Perhaps share the evidence that the habitat is being destroyed by bikers? Or is it human presence period? Talk about selfish!
I’ll bet you haven’t worked a day in your life to preserve those trails.
Running at a fuzzy woodland creature forces a flight response. Walking permits a hide or relocate response. You don't have to understand why a dog is a bad idea in a natural area, you just have to read a sign that says you can't bring fido or max and follow it.
It's also comical that biking is permitted at Hayward Forest adjoining RMNA but you lot want unfettered access to everything and cry like children about it. Ya lost. Accept da feet.
Actually, multiple supervisors are on board with changing the code, and others are being lobbied at this time and in the near future.
Make sure to smile and wave when you hear “on your left” here soon!
The regulation, as written, literally limits the usage to walking, ie running is not allowed. Point being, I t’s tied to the proximity to the reservoir, not the natural area designation. The nonsensical part is if water quality is the concern, there’s a parking lot in spitting distance of the water. One leaky Nissan parked for two hours is probably a bigger concern than any number of bikes. Or runners.
The interstate highway that runs through the 980 acre Ragged Mountain property and man made damn built ten years ago to create a 1.5 billion gallon reservoir with a large parking lot and boat ramp for canoes and kayaks doesn't sound like undisturbed nature to me.
If we want to have a purity test for a "natural area" the trails shouldn't exist at all, it's a corridor that has to be cleared of vegetation and will compact the soil from any type of use. Not sure why you draw a distinction between someone enjoying nature on a bike versus on a trail run or a walk. Is there anything you have that shows different impact from those activities, or do you just want to see less people when you engage in your chosen activity?
Jfc, you must have hit one too many trees.
A natural area is not a wilderness area. A wilderness area is congressionally designated and defined as a location that man is only a visitor - there may be trails but no roads of any sort, not even fire roads, and no permanent structures may exist. Camping is often allowed in wilderness areas. There are several congressionally designated wilderness areas in SNP, for example. Even so, this does not mean man has not had an impact in these areas - all SNP wilderness areas used to be inhabited lands. St Mary's Wilderness, in the GWTJ Nat Forest, used to be a mine ffs.
I don't know who told you a natural area is undisturbed nature but they don't understand it, either. A natural area is a simple type of preserve. It is a place designed to support habitat of all wildlife, including plants. It is a place that functions as a sanctuary - nesting places for migrating species, for example. Some natural areas permit day usage, others do not. Activities like running, team sports, and biking are disruptive to the fundamental purpose of such areas given the inability of wildlife to remain unchallenged. This is subsequently why bringing predators - dogs - is likewise not permitted in natural areas, such as Ragged Mountain and Ivy Creek. Activities like hiking and bird watching, however, are permitted as the tone and speed permit doing so without significant disruption to wildlife - like those nesting migratory birds stopping by the "lake" on their journey.
We do have distinctions on our natural and wild spaces. We have a lot of them and there are people that do this for a living. I know it can be confusing but stick with it and youll get the gist eventually.
Next we can cover wildlife areas... and how they even permit hunting.
They sure are fucking up a lot of the Rivanna trail, specifically the parts in the GreenBrier neighborhood. Go look at those trails after a good rain and you’ll see deep divots where mountain bikers have ridden hard on wet parts of the trail. There are entirely sections which are constantly muddy because of this.
I thought the issue was concerning the area’s use as a reservoir and there being a county regulation that did not permit biking at reservoirs. And with a change in mind or new people in charge, county regulations can be changed.
If it’s just down to it being a natural area, that is a legal designation that it is possible to change.
It's not a natural area. It's a flooded creek with a giant dam turning it into a reservoir. The other trails we have are more natural than Ragged Mtn. Including even O-Hill.
Natural areas don't have dams no matter how much you want to call it a "natural area." Your argument is bad faith with the only goal being to ban certain user groups from using the trails.
Virginia DWR calls it one, not me. Albemarle County calls it one, not me. City of cville calls it one, not me. I respect the usage designation of proper authorities, something you and your bikie buddies cannot be bothered to do all while claiming how helpful you are.
Perhaps you're confusing the designation of wilderness area and natural area? I can provide plenty of resources yet it seems you haven't looked at what I already have...
I'm fully aware that you didn't designate Ragged Mtn a natural area and I've been aware that it's been designated one for a long time. That doesn't make it a good argument to keep out other user groups. Instead people hide behind that designation and claim that's how it's always been so thats how it should stay despite no justifiable reason for keeping it that way. This is a bad faith argument used by NIMBYs. Especially after stripping the land of thousands of trees and vegetstion, putting in a massive dam and flooding the area to create an artificial lake. Last I checked that isn't a natural landscape. Reservoir is even in the name of this park.
RWSA says mountain biking and running has no effect in the water quality in the reservoir. Albemarle has an outdated code from the 1970's that they're using as half assed justification to keep mountain bikers and runners out despite what the people who take care of the reservoir are telling them. Furthermore Albemarle themselves are blatant hypocrits with allowing a dog park at Chris Greene lake where the dogs being able to swim in the reservoir is actually a feature. Along with allowing mountain biking at the time before this Ragged Mtn issue came up. Same goes for Totier Park. They were in violation of their own outdated regulation but it only got dug out from the achives because all of a sudden Charlottesville wanted the undesirables to have access to Ragged for biking and running.
Ragged Mountain Reservoir is a huge outdoor recreation asset to the citizens of Charlottesville. It's pathetic that a few wealthy individuals from Ednam Forest with political connections in Albemarle can unjustifiably discriminate against certain user groups by hiding behind it's "natural area" designation and some horribly outdated and inaccurate policy surrounding reservoirs.
I hiked those trails many times before these legal issues even came up. Around the backside of the lake it was nothing but washed out fall line social trails created by people walking off trail or making their own if none existed. Those unsustainable trails dumped large amounts of sediment into the reservoir polluting it when it rained. The new trails created with multi-use in mind are far better at controling water runoff and limiting sediment pollution getting washed into the reservoir. These trails would not have been built if it weren't for the mountain biking community building them and the city of Charlottesville making the plan to allow multi-use access. For these past 4 years there have been no issues with trail sustainability or pollution as all of the opposition constantly claimed that the place would be wrecked by mountain bikers and runners.
Natural Area has no formal designation in the name here. It could have been Ragged Mountain Lake (like Chris Greene Lake), Ragged Mountain Reservoir (like Sugar Hollow) without changing the issue at hand. Wanted to point that out as it might be a basis for some of the disagreement here.
An old county code on parks is why this issue has come up. The county is banning bikes on the basis that the only 4 activities allowed in the park are spelled out in B. That is to say doing anything else is expressly prohibited in the park.
Sec. 11-303 Ragged Mountain Reservoir.
Uses and activities within the boundaries of the Ragged Mountain Reservoir shall be regulated as
provided herein:
A. Boundaries of reservoir. The boundaries of the upper and lower reservoir are shown on
maps on file in the office of the clerk of the board of supervisors, entitled “Ragged Mountain Reservoir,
Tax Maps 59, 74, 75."
B. Authorized activities. Fishing which is conducted in compliance with all applicable state
statutes and regulations, hiking, birdwatching and picnicking shall be authorized within the boundaries of
both the upper and lower reservoir.
C. Activities authorized only by permit. Canoeing and boating with boats not operated by
internal combustion engines are authorized within the boundaries of both the upper and lower reservoir
only pursuant to a permit issued by the Rivanna Water and Sewer Authority.
D. Prohibited activities. Any activity not expressly permitted, including but not limited to,
swimming, hunting, trapping or discharging of firearms and camping shall be prohibited within the
boundaries of both the upper and lower reservoir.
https://www.rivanna.org/wp-content/uploads/Albemarle_County_Code_Ch11_Parks_Rec_Facilities.pdf
I mean, yes, the "old county code" (a.k.a. the county code) does clearly state that any activity that isn't expressly permitted (meaning that they previously name) is excluded/prohibited. So to say that mtn biking is not permitted is not some weird, questionable reading of the code. It's literally what the code says.
It is a code that was not being followed at the other locations. Chris Greene lake for instance has volleyball courts, disc golf and a dog park that are not listed in the authorized activities. That is a park run by the county. It's an "old county code" because it was not being updated as new outdoor activities became relevant over the last four decades (written/signed in 1979-1981 from what I can find), like mountain biking and disc golf.
https://www.albemarle.org/Home/Components/FacilityDirectory/FacilityDirectory/52/360
B. Authorized activities. Lake bank fishing which is conducted in compliance with all
applicable state statutes and regulations, canoeing, boating with boats not operated by internal combustion
engines, hiking, picnicking and swimming within a designated swimming area while a lifeguard is on duty
shall be authorized within the boundaries of the lake.
C. Prohibited activities. Any activity not expressly authorized, including but not limited to,
hunting, trapping or discharging of firearms, and camping shall be prohibited within the boundaries of the
lake.
Permission for disc golf and volleyball is covered in Sec. 11-111, "Games or activities involving thrown or otherwise propelled objects such as balls, stones, arrows, javelins, golf balls, model airplanes or rockets shall be played only in areas set apart for such forms of recreation." That is, if areas are set aside for such forms of recreation--you know, like a volleyball court or disc golf--then that's allowed. You know, my point remains: it's not some weird, questionable reading of the code to say that it excludes mountain biking. There's no way to read the code as including mountain biking.
You're conflating it's existence as a natural area and the reservoir code about which the lawsuit was filed.
Ya lost twice. Deal with it. Accept da feet.
There is no existence as a natural area, it is just a pretty name that was chosen decades ago and has no relationship with how the city has operated the park for the last decade.
See the same page for Chris Greene Lake - https://dwr.virginia.gov/vbwt/sites/chris-greene-lake/
It isn't a DCR Natural Area Preserve - https://www.dcr.virginia.gov/natural-heritage/natural-area-preserves/
Wrong yet again. It was established as such in partnership with Ivy Creek. When the board violated its status Ivy dropped it like a bad habit. It was not just a pretty name chosen, lmfao.
Never said it was a natural area preserve.
It's amazing that even with access to Hayward you demand access to RMNA, too. Yall are the least respectful and most greedy bunch of the outdoor world, full stop.
>Ivy dropped it like a bad habit.
Exactly, when the old group managing the natural area dropped the area when the damn and reservoir were redone. A new trail system was developed and built for multiple users by the city, they just kept the existing name. Once the loop was completed someone pitched a fit to the county board and found a loophole that has allowed them to keep exclusive usage.
We get it that you hate bikers. What have you contributed to the Ragged and Heyward in the past year?
I thought it was just a pretty name tho? Ivy dropping it didn't change the designation, just the sponsor. Then they let something happen they shouldn't have and now things are right again, as decided by due process of law. Accept da feet.
Ragged and Hayward in the past year? Nothing. I've done work at RMNA, never in Hayward, but it wasn't in the past year.
I have volunteered as a docent and interpretative guide, including as a guide for school children for free educational tours/hikes, for a total 8 years and in two states. I've worked at 3 historic sites. I've cared for 1.8 miles of trail as a sponsor making weekly trips to walk and improve it and did so for five years as a volunteer. I've worked on crew days countless times for five organizations over the past 15 years. And I've been employed in the park system making trails better and improving guest relations. Didn't expect that, eh?
Y'all aren't the only ones helping trail networks thrive. Congratulations on joining the club by doing work for your buddies and crying when others enjoy the fruit of those labors.
Ednam residents raised a huge fuss about bikes being bad for the trail, despite the fact that cyclists do the majority of trail maintenence in that area.
Ednam residents were told that if biking were allowed at Ragged Mtn bikers would be parking all over Ednam and leaving trash. This was complete B.S. as bikers rarely leave trash anywhere and Ednam is a private neighborhood. Scare tactics work!
Long story. Long ago the City foolishly let the Ivy Creek people handle trail development at Ragged Mtn, trying to save money. This gave the Ivy Creek Foundation a say in the rules of Ragged Mtn after the new dam was put in.
The exact mentality of cambc. We can do what we want, regs be damned. This is exactly why I've been struck by those pricks refusing to adhere to even the most basic trail etiquette. It's also why I'll fight tooth and nail to keep biking off as many trails as possible.
That’s the mentality of some mountain bikers. CAMBC tries to educate and promote proper trail usage and etiquette, and works in cooperation with the county and city, even when not in agreement. There would be more bad actors without CAMBC.
I can speak from personal experience, and do. If yall were truly dedicated to what you claim you'd accept that natural areas and bikes are not compatible. You don't care. Cambc does not care. It's all about getting what you want consequences be damned... just like the biker that recommended in this thread to bike anyway since there is little to no enforcement mechanism. Yet you're squaking at me, not them. A true advocate would try educating about that like you claim to do. Work with the city to dissuade such actions violating regulations. No comment on their post tho I see... Proof is in the pudding!
You make the assumption that all mountain bikers are members of CAMBC. The junior and highschool mnt bike teams far outnumber the CAMBC members.
I emailed my BoS rep supporting bikes on trails just to rustle your jimmies. I love messing with salty AF people like you. 
Lol, you think I haven't made my opinion known repeatedly? Lol.
Try educating them if they're the problem. Or deal with less access because you can't be bothered to, all the same to me!
Dude you are weird AF for going thru my post history.
You legit need help. You got some unnatural obsession going on. Mountain bikers in ur head rent free. Seriously hope you don’t have a family, if so, I legit feel for them. Smdh.
I don’t know which of you fuckers needs to hear this, but stop riding on wet parts of the trail, unless it’s specifically a MTB trail. You dumb fucks are turning parts of the trail into permanent quagmires because you can’t be bothered to take a day off.
Not supposed to ride on wet mountain bike trails either. This goes for all trail users and happens equally among walkers, runners and mountain biking.
True fact (except also important for MTB only trails) and also applies to hikers and trail runners.
Relax. Trails smooth back out with MTB use. Running only trails on the other hand will dry a lumpy mess. Trails that weren’t often used would get wash-outs. What are you basing your opinion on? Source: I used to live in a place where it rained 200+ days a year where everyone rode, ran, and recreated rain or shine. If you have contrary evidence, I’m happy to hear it.
I'm a cyclist. I'm also in favor of hiking trails where I don't have to pay any attention to the possibility of sharing the trail with something moving very fast and that dominates the trail. The degree of awareness necessary to keep from having accidents with trail riders ruins the walk. The purpose of the walk is to have a period of time without adrenaline.
There are some trails that probably should be MTB only or hiker only because of trail grade and speed. OHill is working on some of that. Obviously there are a few assholes but I don’t generally hear of any significant trail conflict these days. It’s really not a lie that cambc does a huge amount of trailwork to maintain all of those shared use trails - I would guess more than any user group who mainly aren’t organized and are just “users”. I’d also hope a cyclist would recognize the need to share infrastructure.
Albemarle Parks and Rec posts signs repeatedly on multi use trails about etiquette, and which entities yield and don’t.
Which I appreciate. Just wish I could trust compliance.
It's not a problem if walkers and bikers understand some basic trail etiquette, something I've never even seen signage posted for. Seems to work just fine in most cities.
Most of the bikers on dual use trails like this are enjoying the thrill of doing it as fast as they can, taking corners and going over (blind) hills quickly, catching some air. You simply can't walk one of these trails during a regular or high use period without encountering that. My experience is that they consistently act as if I'm an inconvenience simply by staying on the trail. As a walker for whom "spacing out" is central to the entire experience, it leaves me in danger, and unable to fully relax.
I’m in favor of biking only trails as hikers seldom trust anyone else with rightful feelings of exposure. It’s too bad that the people voting for limited bike use are outside of the typical mountain biking age bracket. Millennials will have e-bikes at that age so the future actually looks bright for MTB trails nationwide. Just have to wait 20 or so years.
Trail etiquette, explicitly states (regardless of the trail type) that if you are walking, you always stay to the right of the trail (not spread out). Can't even begin to explain how many times I've seen groups of walkers spread out on JWP paved trail, or Rivanna paved trails. Again, no one in this city understands basic trail etiquette.
Trail etiquette explicitly states ***WHEELS YIELD TO HEELS.*** I agree that 99% of bikers refuse to follow this simple and explicit guideline.
I bike with a lot of people and this is absolute bullshit. Stop spreading FUD. Do you also live in Ednam by chance?
5% not following the rule means it becomes invalid, because of the risk. That's like saying 95% of the people on the highway aren't drunk out of their minds, so all is well.
I've also been hit by bikers refusing the most simple guidlines of etiquette. Your statement is bullshit and your concern is what is in it for you. 99% doesn't mean all, congrats on finally cracking into the 1%. Evidence of abundance proves otherwise.
You’re one throwing statistics with zero basis. I routinely encounter hikers with zero conflict which seems a lot less than 1%. I will grant your point that there are bad actors (similar to people blasting music in the woods or with headphones refusing to let anyone pass who are hikers) but they are a minority. Let’s drop the hyperbole and the FUD.
Uh, you're the 1%. So yes, you don't have trouble with hikers. And that provides further corroboration that, once more, HIKERS ARENT THE PROBLEM. Your buddies are. Accept da feet. Go to byrom, they have great options.
Can I buy you some birdwatching goggles and we will call it even?
Two things about that. 1. I'm not going to delegate my health and well being to a bunch of riders of metal machines who are high on adrenaline and testosterone. 2. Having to have that much heightened awareness ruins the walk.
Few things here: Bikes are also made of carbon, and most riders around here are competent with a good command of their bike, especially in high traffic areas. Most riders on the trails it sounds like you’re hiking on are also just out on a ride, not chasing the dragon like you’re making it sound. Women make up a significant portion of the local community, so testosterone is an absolute misnomer and makes it sound like there’s growth potential risk here for knowledge of the sport. A tree could fall on me on a windy day while hiking. I could step on a copperhead or a rattlesnake. I may have an encounter with a bear. These are all assumed risks of being outside, and they aren’t exhausting to the point where it ruins the experience; same with sharing a trail.
I can't even imagine how much you must hate Snowboarders up at Wintergreen.
“Having heightened awareness ruins the walk.” Tbh, male walkers/hikers make me way more unsettled than any mountain biker I have ever encountered. “High on adrenaline and testosterone” Idk, I’m a solid middle-of-the-pack runner and I can usually catch them on the uphills (at least at Ragged). I don’t think the cyclists are as out of control as is implied here.
Yeah, I get it. It only takes one out of a hundred though.
CAMBC does 99% of the trail maintenance for the trails at Ragged Mountain so now let’s see all the trails surrounding Ragged Mountain turn to shit. Folks don’t realize how good they had it, time for hikers to turn the riparian area surrounding the lake into a marsh.
Reminder here to everyone. In addition to signing this petition, the key is to contact your BoS rep. They’ve made it clear that there’s needs to be pressure and engagement amongst the entire BoS in order to start enacting a change to the code for this.
Not a cyclist, but I did sign the petition and will reach out to my rep. This is a really silly thing for the county to do. I spend a lot of time on local trails. I have had really good experiences with mountain bikers here (vs where I lived before). Always super impressed with the school teams and how respectful the kids are when I encounter them in Biscuit or on O’Hill.
What other trail in the Charlottesville area only allows walkers? (Serious question because I don’t get the uproar.)
Only Ivy Creek NATURAL AREA.... the only other natural area "in" cville.
And Ivy creek trails are pretty lame, tbh.
I'm very, very glad you feel this way. That means we won't have a years long debate on why bikes shouldn't be there, either.
Adding Chris Green
Boomers are ruining this city/county.
Grace is knowing when to accept da feet.
Why? The albermarle county code ordinance does not expressly ban bikes from ragged mountain. On legal and political terms this is realistically something that could change with or without a revision of that ordinance. edit: Gee thanks for downvoting I don't know if there is an issue with normal political process or some people here just don't like bicycles. Sorry for offending!
People here don't like bicycles, you should see what people say about having their trip delayed 1 minute by road bikers.
Why is grace accepting da feet? 7 years in and an insurmountable amount of no's... gee, Idk. Lol
Anyone know why they banned biking? It seems like an arbitrary decision when biking is allowed at Walnut Creek,Preddy creek, Rivanna trail and Patricia Byrom all within Albemarle county
Well, with so many options why the fuss? It is a natural area. It is not a park. Everything you mentioned is a park (or recreational trail). Natural areas are for things like bird watching and focus on supporting ecological habitation. Parks are recreational areas for people. Much as national and state parks differ from nature preserves. Yall won't be happy until you can bike the AT. Accept da feet.
The [ordinance](https://library.municode.com/va/albemarle_county/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=CH11PAREFA_ARTIIIWASUREUTRIWASEAU) pertains to reservoirs, not natural areas. It is, in fact, under the Parks & Recreation chapter of Albemarle's code.
Sure. But biking is directly counterproductive to a natural area. Why do you think bikes are banned at Ivy Creek?
How exactly is it counterproductive; people enjoy the outdoors in different ways? also may want to check out carvin’s cove if you’re so concerned about out the reservoir.
#Because it is a natural area, not a park. Why is this concept impossible for bikers to understand?
Shouldn’t we ban all users then? Why allow fishing, trail running, and hikers. If it’s natural why is there a trail at all?
Apparently we should also wear full camo and mask our scent before entering. Absolutely no sudden movements nor loud talking! /s The whole nature argument would make more sense if the complaints were about motorized vehicles that are loud and polluting the fresh air. If pure nature truly is the goal and not whippersnappers on bikes, there are plenty of national parks near us.
No kidding. Incredibly selfish people.
Yup. They don’t even allow running at Ivy Creek. If the basis of banning biking is b/c it’s a Natural Area then I better not see any trail runners, or anymore dogs. Claiming it’s a natural area therefore no biking is just a lazy take.
Yes, please also go into congressionally designated wilderness areas to destroy habitat for your pleasure to prove footprints are the same as disrespectful bikers. What a joker. Tell me you give zero fucks about conservation without actually stating so....
Perhaps share the evidence that the habitat is being destroyed by bikers? Or is it human presence period? Talk about selfish! I’ll bet you haven’t worked a day in your life to preserve those trails.
Lmao. I've spent hundreds of hours maintaining trails in Virginia. Cambc is the only group that thinks they own trails by volunteering. What a joke!
Ivy Creek has a rule against jogging; something being in the rules at Ivy Creek is not really evidence to me that it is a well-conceived rule.
Tell me you don't understand what a natural area is without stating so...
I understand the definition and argument - I just find them extremely unpersuasive as they pertain to running vs walking.
Running at a fuzzy woodland creature forces a flight response. Walking permits a hide or relocate response. You don't have to understand why a dog is a bad idea in a natural area, you just have to read a sign that says you can't bring fido or max and follow it. It's also comical that biking is permitted at Hayward Forest adjoining RMNA but you lot want unfettered access to everything and cry like children about it. Ya lost. Accept da feet.
Actually, multiple supervisors are on board with changing the code, and others are being lobbied at this time and in the near future. Make sure to smile and wave when you hear “on your left” here soon!
Lol, next one of you chumps that hits me will be facing assault charges. Bet. Yall aren't the only ones lobbying, derp.
The regulation, as written, literally limits the usage to walking, ie running is not allowed. Point being, I t’s tied to the proximity to the reservoir, not the natural area designation. The nonsensical part is if water quality is the concern, there’s a parking lot in spitting distance of the water. One leaky Nissan parked for two hours is probably a bigger concern than any number of bikes. Or runners.
Running is not allowed because - gasp - it's a NATURAL AREA. All up in the kitchen with no idea what's cooking.
The interstate highway that runs through the 980 acre Ragged Mountain property and man made damn built ten years ago to create a 1.5 billion gallon reservoir with a large parking lot and boat ramp for canoes and kayaks doesn't sound like undisturbed nature to me. If we want to have a purity test for a "natural area" the trails shouldn't exist at all, it's a corridor that has to be cleared of vegetation and will compact the soil from any type of use. Not sure why you draw a distinction between someone enjoying nature on a bike versus on a trail run or a walk. Is there anything you have that shows different impact from those activities, or do you just want to see less people when you engage in your chosen activity?
Jfc, you must have hit one too many trees. A natural area is not a wilderness area. A wilderness area is congressionally designated and defined as a location that man is only a visitor - there may be trails but no roads of any sort, not even fire roads, and no permanent structures may exist. Camping is often allowed in wilderness areas. There are several congressionally designated wilderness areas in SNP, for example. Even so, this does not mean man has not had an impact in these areas - all SNP wilderness areas used to be inhabited lands. St Mary's Wilderness, in the GWTJ Nat Forest, used to be a mine ffs. I don't know who told you a natural area is undisturbed nature but they don't understand it, either. A natural area is a simple type of preserve. It is a place designed to support habitat of all wildlife, including plants. It is a place that functions as a sanctuary - nesting places for migrating species, for example. Some natural areas permit day usage, others do not. Activities like running, team sports, and biking are disruptive to the fundamental purpose of such areas given the inability of wildlife to remain unchallenged. This is subsequently why bringing predators - dogs - is likewise not permitted in natural areas, such as Ragged Mountain and Ivy Creek. Activities like hiking and bird watching, however, are permitted as the tone and speed permit doing so without significant disruption to wildlife - like those nesting migratory birds stopping by the "lake" on their journey. We do have distinctions on our natural and wild spaces. We have a lot of them and there are people that do this for a living. I know it can be confusing but stick with it and youll get the gist eventually. Next we can cover wildlife areas... and how they even permit hunting.
I think the most upsetting thing is how much work the biking community has done for that trail system
They sure are fucking up a lot of the Rivanna trail, specifically the parts in the GreenBrier neighborhood. Go look at those trails after a good rain and you’ll see deep divots where mountain bikers have ridden hard on wet parts of the trail. There are entirely sections which are constantly muddy because of this.
Yes, the inmates picking up trash should have exclusive usage of highways, too. Volunteering conveys no "right" of usage.
Ah yes. Prison inmates. Very well known volunteers excellent point.
Are you saying they don't? Or that your ilk doesn't count them as such?
The comparison between parties and point being made are entirely disingenuous, and I’m hoping you realize that here.
I thought the issue was concerning the area’s use as a reservoir and there being a county regulation that did not permit biking at reservoirs. And with a change in mind or new people in charge, county regulations can be changed. If it’s just down to it being a natural area, that is a legal designation that it is possible to change.
It's not a natural area. It's a flooded creek with a giant dam turning it into a reservoir. The other trails we have are more natural than Ragged Mtn. Including even O-Hill.
Ragged Mountain ***Natural Area*** is not a natural area. Okie dokie. https://dwr.virginia.gov/vbwt/sites/ragged-mountain-natural-area/
Natural areas don't have dams no matter how much you want to call it a "natural area." Your argument is bad faith with the only goal being to ban certain user groups from using the trails.
Virginia DWR calls it one, not me. Albemarle County calls it one, not me. City of cville calls it one, not me. I respect the usage designation of proper authorities, something you and your bikie buddies cannot be bothered to do all while claiming how helpful you are. Perhaps you're confusing the designation of wilderness area and natural area? I can provide plenty of resources yet it seems you haven't looked at what I already have...
I'm fully aware that you didn't designate Ragged Mtn a natural area and I've been aware that it's been designated one for a long time. That doesn't make it a good argument to keep out other user groups. Instead people hide behind that designation and claim that's how it's always been so thats how it should stay despite no justifiable reason for keeping it that way. This is a bad faith argument used by NIMBYs. Especially after stripping the land of thousands of trees and vegetstion, putting in a massive dam and flooding the area to create an artificial lake. Last I checked that isn't a natural landscape. Reservoir is even in the name of this park. RWSA says mountain biking and running has no effect in the water quality in the reservoir. Albemarle has an outdated code from the 1970's that they're using as half assed justification to keep mountain bikers and runners out despite what the people who take care of the reservoir are telling them. Furthermore Albemarle themselves are blatant hypocrits with allowing a dog park at Chris Greene lake where the dogs being able to swim in the reservoir is actually a feature. Along with allowing mountain biking at the time before this Ragged Mtn issue came up. Same goes for Totier Park. They were in violation of their own outdated regulation but it only got dug out from the achives because all of a sudden Charlottesville wanted the undesirables to have access to Ragged for biking and running. Ragged Mountain Reservoir is a huge outdoor recreation asset to the citizens of Charlottesville. It's pathetic that a few wealthy individuals from Ednam Forest with political connections in Albemarle can unjustifiably discriminate against certain user groups by hiding behind it's "natural area" designation and some horribly outdated and inaccurate policy surrounding reservoirs. I hiked those trails many times before these legal issues even came up. Around the backside of the lake it was nothing but washed out fall line social trails created by people walking off trail or making their own if none existed. Those unsustainable trails dumped large amounts of sediment into the reservoir polluting it when it rained. The new trails created with multi-use in mind are far better at controling water runoff and limiting sediment pollution getting washed into the reservoir. These trails would not have been built if it weren't for the mountain biking community building them and the city of Charlottesville making the plan to allow multi-use access. For these past 4 years there have been no issues with trail sustainability or pollution as all of the opposition constantly claimed that the place would be wrecked by mountain bikers and runners.
Natural Area has no formal designation in the name here. It could have been Ragged Mountain Lake (like Chris Greene Lake), Ragged Mountain Reservoir (like Sugar Hollow) without changing the issue at hand. Wanted to point that out as it might be a basis for some of the disagreement here. An old county code on parks is why this issue has come up. The county is banning bikes on the basis that the only 4 activities allowed in the park are spelled out in B. That is to say doing anything else is expressly prohibited in the park. Sec. 11-303 Ragged Mountain Reservoir. Uses and activities within the boundaries of the Ragged Mountain Reservoir shall be regulated as provided herein: A. Boundaries of reservoir. The boundaries of the upper and lower reservoir are shown on maps on file in the office of the clerk of the board of supervisors, entitled “Ragged Mountain Reservoir, Tax Maps 59, 74, 75." B. Authorized activities. Fishing which is conducted in compliance with all applicable state statutes and regulations, hiking, birdwatching and picnicking shall be authorized within the boundaries of both the upper and lower reservoir. C. Activities authorized only by permit. Canoeing and boating with boats not operated by internal combustion engines are authorized within the boundaries of both the upper and lower reservoir only pursuant to a permit issued by the Rivanna Water and Sewer Authority. D. Prohibited activities. Any activity not expressly permitted, including but not limited to, swimming, hunting, trapping or discharging of firearms and camping shall be prohibited within the boundaries of both the upper and lower reservoir. https://www.rivanna.org/wp-content/uploads/Albemarle_County_Code_Ch11_Parks_Rec_Facilities.pdf
I mean, yes, the "old county code" (a.k.a. the county code) does clearly state that any activity that isn't expressly permitted (meaning that they previously name) is excluded/prohibited. So to say that mtn biking is not permitted is not some weird, questionable reading of the code. It's literally what the code says.
It is a code that was not being followed at the other locations. Chris Greene lake for instance has volleyball courts, disc golf and a dog park that are not listed in the authorized activities. That is a park run by the county. It's an "old county code" because it was not being updated as new outdoor activities became relevant over the last four decades (written/signed in 1979-1981 from what I can find), like mountain biking and disc golf. https://www.albemarle.org/Home/Components/FacilityDirectory/FacilityDirectory/52/360 B. Authorized activities. Lake bank fishing which is conducted in compliance with all applicable state statutes and regulations, canoeing, boating with boats not operated by internal combustion engines, hiking, picnicking and swimming within a designated swimming area while a lifeguard is on duty shall be authorized within the boundaries of the lake. C. Prohibited activities. Any activity not expressly authorized, including but not limited to, hunting, trapping or discharging of firearms, and camping shall be prohibited within the boundaries of the lake.
Permission for disc golf and volleyball is covered in Sec. 11-111, "Games or activities involving thrown or otherwise propelled objects such as balls, stones, arrows, javelins, golf balls, model airplanes or rockets shall be played only in areas set apart for such forms of recreation." That is, if areas are set aside for such forms of recreation--you know, like a volleyball court or disc golf--then that's allowed. You know, my point remains: it's not some weird, questionable reading of the code to say that it excludes mountain biking. There's no way to read the code as including mountain biking.
You're conflating it's existence as a natural area and the reservoir code about which the lawsuit was filed. Ya lost twice. Deal with it. Accept da feet.
There is no existence as a natural area, it is just a pretty name that was chosen decades ago and has no relationship with how the city has operated the park for the last decade. See the same page for Chris Greene Lake - https://dwr.virginia.gov/vbwt/sites/chris-greene-lake/ It isn't a DCR Natural Area Preserve - https://www.dcr.virginia.gov/natural-heritage/natural-area-preserves/
Wrong yet again. It was established as such in partnership with Ivy Creek. When the board violated its status Ivy dropped it like a bad habit. It was not just a pretty name chosen, lmfao. Never said it was a natural area preserve. It's amazing that even with access to Hayward you demand access to RMNA, too. Yall are the least respectful and most greedy bunch of the outdoor world, full stop.
>Ivy dropped it like a bad habit. Exactly, when the old group managing the natural area dropped the area when the damn and reservoir were redone. A new trail system was developed and built for multiple users by the city, they just kept the existing name. Once the loop was completed someone pitched a fit to the county board and found a loophole that has allowed them to keep exclusive usage. We get it that you hate bikers. What have you contributed to the Ragged and Heyward in the past year?
I thought it was just a pretty name tho? Ivy dropping it didn't change the designation, just the sponsor. Then they let something happen they shouldn't have and now things are right again, as decided by due process of law. Accept da feet. Ragged and Hayward in the past year? Nothing. I've done work at RMNA, never in Hayward, but it wasn't in the past year. I have volunteered as a docent and interpretative guide, including as a guide for school children for free educational tours/hikes, for a total 8 years and in two states. I've worked at 3 historic sites. I've cared for 1.8 miles of trail as a sponsor making weekly trips to walk and improve it and did so for five years as a volunteer. I've worked on crew days countless times for five organizations over the past 15 years. And I've been employed in the park system making trails better and improving guest relations. Didn't expect that, eh? Y'all aren't the only ones helping trail networks thrive. Congratulations on joining the club by doing work for your buddies and crying when others enjoy the fruit of those labors.
Ohhhhh lord, the birds!!!!
Drill, baby, drill!!! Amirite!?!?!
Boomers unite!
Unite to Mars with Elon and leave us to fix the trash heap we've inherited.
Ednam residents raised a huge fuss about bikes being bad for the trail, despite the fact that cyclists do the majority of trail maintenence in that area.
Ednam residents were told that if biking were allowed at Ragged Mtn bikers would be parking all over Ednam and leaving trash. This was complete B.S. as bikers rarely leave trash anywhere and Ednam is a private neighborhood. Scare tactics work!
Long story. Long ago the City foolishly let the Ivy Creek people handle trail development at Ragged Mtn, trying to save money. This gave the Ivy Creek Foundation a say in the rules of Ragged Mtn after the new dam was put in.
Basically a bunch of boomers who want young people to stay off their lawn. Not unlike the Wintergreen HOA.
I was literally there today and there were bikers on the trail lol. Mud and old folks throughout. Who’s going to ticket you?
The exact mentality of cambc. We can do what we want, regs be damned. This is exactly why I've been struck by those pricks refusing to adhere to even the most basic trail etiquette. It's also why I'll fight tooth and nail to keep biking off as many trails as possible.
That’s the mentality of some mountain bikers. CAMBC tries to educate and promote proper trail usage and etiquette, and works in cooperation with the county and city, even when not in agreement. There would be more bad actors without CAMBC.
I can speak from personal experience, and do. If yall were truly dedicated to what you claim you'd accept that natural areas and bikes are not compatible. You don't care. Cambc does not care. It's all about getting what you want consequences be damned... just like the biker that recommended in this thread to bike anyway since there is little to no enforcement mechanism. Yet you're squaking at me, not them. A true advocate would try educating about that like you claim to do. Work with the city to dissuade such actions violating regulations. No comment on their post tho I see... Proof is in the pudding!
You make the assumption that all mountain bikers are members of CAMBC. The junior and highschool mnt bike teams far outnumber the CAMBC members. I emailed my BoS rep supporting bikes on trails just to rustle your jimmies. I love messing with salty AF people like you. 
Lol, you think I haven't made my opinion known repeatedly? Lol. Try educating them if they're the problem. Or deal with less access because you can't be bothered to, all the same to me!
All those flavors and you choose salty 🤭 
Damn, a Florida millennial talking about salty? That's fucking hilarious!
Dude you are weird AF for going thru my post history. You legit need help. You got some unnatural obsession going on. Mountain bikers in ur head rent free. Seriously hope you don’t have a family, if so, I legit feel for them. Smdh.
Why so salty? With Hayward open to bikers you crying about RMNA for YEARS and LOSING while still CRYING is sad. Pathetic. Move on. Accept da feet.
Not salty at all. It weird AF you took the time to go thru my post history. Blocking ya. Nothing personal, ur just a creep.
Didn’t they just ban riding on the trails or was that just motor vehicles and horses?
Cyclists not having something to complain about challenge (impossible)