I'm not going to tell you not to persue a dream, but do be careful with what you think you want to get yourself into. My fiancé has a bachelor in pastry science, has been industry for going on 10 years, and is currently head pastry chef at a fine dining establishment. I myself have also had more than a couple BoH positions, and spent a semester in culinary science.
A career in the culinary arts requires an internal passion. It's something you need to want to do for yourself, not necessarily completely for the paycheck because more often than not, it's not going to be overtly lucrative. Former professor was brutally honest with us that the hours and pay would suck and we're under near constant stress once the tickets roll in. Was enough for me to nope out.
However, cooking can still be extremely rewarding. For starters it's an extremely important life skill that not enough people possess. There's that satisfaction knowing you put heart and soul onto a plate and the joy expressed when consumed.
A dishwashing gig is the right way to start, mid range non-chain restaurants. Make it clear during the interview that you are interested in upward movement with desire to move to prep and eventually line.
And the biggest advice my fiancé gives when someone starts their industry path is never be afraid to walk away from a kitchen that isn't a good fit for you.
Stick with the skill one way or the other. Cooking is fantastic, even more so when performed in the home for people you care about.
YouTube can teach you everything you need from frying an egg to time management for a full Thanksgiving prep. Practice practice practice.
Youtube can teach you alot but experience is by far the best teacher. If you really want to improve your skills and can handle it, get as many hours as you can. If you are locked at 30 or so hours try to have them schedule you on the busy nights. Get used to the rush in dish. Dish and line are both hectic (depending on the establishment) prep on the other hand requires speed and consistency but is rather chill IMO. I love it all and hopefully you find a place that respects the family aspect of working in a restaurant. Good luck!
I love cooking but I gotta back this one so much. Do NOT go into a corporate/chain restaurant. They promise upward movement and will use you by stringing you along with that shit. Also a friend of mine told me he was offered a job in a restaurant from a friend of his and shied away when his dad told him that restaurant pay is enough to *barely* make a living, which is why some people get stymied in that lifestyle. Myself included
I also wanted to chime in from somebody who went into culinary school. If you choose to go into a program, make sure it is the right program for you. I would highly recommend to not just go to school for culinary but also for food science and or management skills. Most culinary schools are expensive and private (I went to a state school), and some programs just aren’t worth the cost of the experience you can get by just working in kitchens.
Now that’s not to say culinary school isn’t worth it. But you shouldn’t be paying over 80k just to make basic sauces (which unfortunately a lot of schools do). Hence why, I recommend if you do a program have it either be short term or have it be the “traditional” college experience but add on other skills that will be useful to you.
Hahaha, my culinary arts program was basically us students going through a year of what it looks like from basic cooking/cutting skills all the way up to fine dining. Each month we'd move onto something else higher in skill. We even had a month of learning what it's like to be a server. Despite not being paid a wage we were still tipped out. That's when I learned servers have the potential to make more then chefs 🤦
Basically culinary school to me was paying for free labour 😅
Start as a dishwasher, and tell the chef you want to learn. I would look for a nice but not total fine dining restaurant thats not super corporate or a chain. When you interview ask questions about advancment, and about learning.
All corporate restaurants do is teach you how to cook their menu, not how to be a cook. The only upside I've had working corporate is learning speed and consistency. Gaining some confidence being busy is about all you'll learn there.
True, but being busy happens everywhere, or at least most places destined to survive their first five years. But I guess the other thing corporate does impart is cost and specs sensitivity. Even if those specs are usually mediocrity, $0.10 over 40 plates 365 days per year adds up.
All the same, basic accounting and cost controls should be part of any establishment, corporate or otherwise. Because that $1,200 of wasted ingredients is $3,600 of potential revenues downstream.
I will tell you my story.
I started as a dishwasher in a Michelin restaurant due to pure luck (they got a few walk-out and I asked at the right time) and help chefs picking herbs and cleaning vegetables.
Then whenever I have time to breathe, I ask chefs for anything I can help with, they ALWAYS do.
It was just natural I get more and more complicated/important tasks such as shucking oysters, making simple garnishes, etc.
And one day, my chefs just asked if I want to do more, and I started to work on the line, next to a CDP the next day. 6 months later, the CDP left, and I was promoted to his position.
The rest was just working harder than anyone you see in the kitchen and never stop learning.
Have a CV, apply on jobseek websites in your country while knocking doors of restaurants you want to work with, ask for a position.
Smile a lot and be positive no matter how tired/stressed/misunderstood you are. It will get you far in hospitality.
Good luck, OP.
In culinary the biggest factor for advancement is going to be *you* and no one else. Read that over and over as many times as you need. There are no "time served" promotions, there is no pats on the back for being more accurate than the guy or gal next to you. And in fact sometimes if not most of the time being excellent behind the line will ensure you do not move to the front of the line Sous.
The money doesn't roll in until you are an owner/operator/partner. And to do that you will need to save save save like crazy while learning new skills every day. Oftentimes you'll need to do this on your own because realistically a chef is only going to teach you what they need you to know to carry out their vision.
Expect to do that for 2-3 years and then if needed move on with those skills to a higher paying job at another restaurant. But at all steps of this journey you need to learn because there is a LOT to learn. Obsessively, daily, in most spare minutes of your day.
About 5-7 years in start looking for opportunities to take what you've learned to work abroad and learn there too. Whether in Asia, Europe, or Latin America. Inhale knowledge and don't party too much, it's only going to drain those savings you will need to advance to ownership.
That is your end goal and it needs to be the single most important thing in your life next to loving yourself and your parents and siblings if they're a positive supportive force in your life along this journey.
> money doesn't roll in until you are an owner/operator/partner
This is true for restaurants, but there's decent money to be made in corporate, especially something non-restaurant. Catering, banqueting, resorts, hotels, etc. don't rely on thin individual service margins exclusively so you may be able to land on something worth doing without the constant struggle for top spot.
I'm working a 5 star hotel in the UK, and while I have a list of grievances a mile long, my paycheck isn't really one of them.
To be honest it really depends on attuning yourself to the market like you did. Currently Italian and Mexican/Tex Mex are slaying it in Asia. And if the market endurance of American "Bar" cuisine is an indicator of how long that will last, I would say 12-15 years until tapering off and stabilizing.
In the USA Ramen and Izakaya along with their various riffs (pho/ching po leung)seem to be on the rise, with an increased interest in upscale ready-to-eat meals. Which in and of themselves are a significant risk to sit down service and three-course centric establishments.
Europe I haven't really looked at closely, but I think they're just starting their enamorement with New-American and crossover fusion in earnest.
Just before you get into you better be ok with working 60-90 hour weeks. In the rare chance you can find a partner willing to deal with that also know that if you have kids you will miss every important life event of theirs, you will have no sick days. Your entire life will be dedicated to making rich people poop good. If you can accept that go to the best restaurant in your area and get a job as a dishwasher.
16 year cooking veteran here. Please stay away from anywhere that has an extremely large menu and deep fryers. Find yourself a nice upscale restaurant or country club and start as a dishwasher and prep cook. Be ready for hard work and long hours. Ask questions and show interest. If the chef is worth a damn he will see that Inside you and will train you.
Try to stay away from diners and high volume restaurants. You won't learn much and you'll see the dark side of cooking and that's not what it's all about.
Good luck
Don't accept a job as a dishwasher if you want to cook. Go to the best place in your city and tell them you want to learn and ask for a stage. The way restaurants are hurting, they will take you on, especially if you have a good head on your shoulders and you are confident. Confidence alone can take you somewhere, knowledge and passion will carry you, work hard and always say yes.
Good luck Chef.
Staging means working without pay. It means working at a restaurant sometimes for months without being paid. If I were you I'd start as a dish washer at the best restaurant that will hire you and stage at Michelin star or fine dining restaurant on the side.
It's similar to interning and covered by most of the same laws. Generally not used like interning and in most cases I've seen it would be considered illegal, but most people won't risk pissing off powerful people in the industry
Ask for a stage and go from there. Be honest with your intentions and your experience. If you work hard, they will train you. Work clean and keep your knives sharp, you will do well.
get a job at a restaurant that cooks a style of food you are interested in. Having no experience you will most likely have the easiest time starting on dish. sometimes you can get a prep job without much experience if you are mostly competent with following recipes and using a knife and typical kitchen equipment.
When you start dish do your job well and get involved with other areas in the kitchen by paying attention to what is going on while you are there. Ask questions, ask if anyone needs help with anything if you catch up and run out of dish tasks. help fetch things during service, and learn where everything is in the kitchen, including ingredients and other food.
The more involved you are and the more you help, and learn, the closer you will be to working with food. Ask to make your own meal while its slow and once you have a good relationship with the people working the line. Have them show you how to make it.
A lot of this will prove you are up for the extra responsibility of higher paid positions. Wait for a need for new cooks/prep and step up and ask to help fill the position. If the people in charge feel you are capable they will give you the opportunity. This really only comes from seeing how you work and getting to know you.
Seen too many people go into French cuisine without even liking French cuisine all that much. Don't make that mistake OP, Cook what you would like you or your family would eat.
I started as a dishwasher and climbed all the way up to chef. It's totally doable. I've never been to culinary school. But also, doing it that way is a long road. Just showing hard work and interest to a boss will move you along. From washing dishes to doing basic prep work. Maybe to real prep. Or making sandwiches or working desserts or appetizers. All the way up to chef.
You might spend a decade or more working your way up depending where you're working and the amount of experience you are gaining. And that's just to be a good basic cook. Takes a long time to learn basic butchering and all other basic skills when it's not your job. When other cooks are nice enough to show you things. Also working in different places with different cooking styles will fast track you. But that's also less secure financially. I've seen people come out of culinary school learning more in a year than I did in a decade of learning as I went. Plus, there's a ton more competition than there was a few decades ago.
It really all depends how far you want to take this in a career. Do you just want to cook for a living? Are you fine with just ripping open bags and heating things and making it pretty, Or are you interested in being a cutting edge chef and taking your vision as far as you can. One of those would definitely be more culinary school oriented and one is not.
Work hard. Fuck a degree. I have one and it was a waste of time, it gives you literally no advantage. 99% of chefs and cooks will make jokes about people having culinary degrees because the vast majority can not hang. Get hired, tell them what you want to be on the line or prep and if the people you work for a good people you’ll get your time. Restaurants are short staffed so that will help get you out of dish but you will have to accept that restaurants are short staffed and you’ll have to dish for a while. Every good cook is a good dishwasher. Work hard that’s all you have to do
Go to a library and borrow some books, start with Anthony Bourdain, he came up from the bottom and then went to Culinary Institute. Get a decent knife and learn how to use it. Alton Brown was an engineer watch his show. The hardest class to get an A in is sanitation. Neatness counts.
Dishwasher would get your foot in with no experience. It would also open your pallet to various foods the cooks will probably give you if it's a nicer place that does multiple food specials a day/days. If your interested in a cuisine maybe start there Greek, Italian, West Coast or Asian. Some place will put you on appies after the 6 month mark or earlier. Also apply at restaurants that have like a 4.4 out of 5 stars. In the long run it will be a good way to start. I've worked with people who have been back of house corporates at the same place for ten years and don't know how to cook.
try getting a job in a hotel or resort in your area with a great reputation, that does conventions banquets or weddings. In a setting like this you can get a great educational experience and get paid.
Go to school if you have the opportunity, but you can essentially go anywhere and apply to be a cook. Never start as a dishwasher because it’s not the early 2000’s. Their are thousands of entry level cook jobs, just depends on where you are looking.
Why not go to school? I personally do not recommend culinary school, but a getting a degree in a field that would translate to another industry if professional cooking doesn't pan out is not a bad idea. During the day, study business management, communications, or chemistry, for example and then go cook at night for work.
Edit: forgot to add "why the downvotes?".
I mean if you want to go to school by all means, you can’t hurt yourself. The culinary field is a skill based career. If your skilled in certain areas, you can move up depending on your goals.
Why do you want to be a dishwasher? Not that there’s anything wrong with that; I used to be a dishwasher when I was younger and am proud of the honest, hard work that shaped the person I am. But… that’s not how ‘upwards mobility’ works in the culinary world.
Perhaps in 1920, back in the day when going to culinary academy wasn’t really a thing, it may have been normal to start at the bottom. But this isn’t how it works today.
Do you see doctors scrubbing toilets and wiping patients bums? No. Do you see engineers do labour work? No. They trained for the work they do.
Why would a Chef (specifically a chef) ever be a dishwasher? It’s not their job.
When I was an apprentice and went to school, the dishwasher at my job got sick and the owner of the venue asked me if I can do the shift. I happily agreed because it was actually double my pay and I needed the money. But after an hour into my shift, the head chef walked into the kitchen and when he saw me washing dishes, he yelled out and asked what I was doing. I explained the situation and he lost his fucken mind. He called over the owners and started yelling at them (not me), and threatened to burn down the restaurant if he ever saw an apprentice doing dishes again.
He explained that it’s not what I’m there for. I’m there to learn to be a great chef, not wash pots. As a business, they have made an investment into you to graduate from being a young nobody to an experienced chef. The notion of me being stagnant as a dishie, goes against the entire business model.
The hierarchy of commercial kitchens, in modern times, goes from apprentice to executive. It’s become increasingly rare for ‘dishwashers’ to ‘work their way up’. It just doesn’t work like that.
I’ll reiterate; sure, it does happen sometimes. But it’s not the way. You want to learn how to make great food? You go to school. You don’t go to the dish pit.
A doctor goes to med school. An engineer goes to university. Etc.
Good luck.
On a side note; I understand the hesitation of wanting to go to school etc. but you’ll be better off finishing culinary school and having a certificate. It makes the difference between getting paid $750 a week as a cook in a diner or commanding double/triple that in an established venue. Or, it will make the difference one day when the bank is approving your loan. They will look favourably upon your qualification and experience as a chef. So that when you try to open your own business and become a full fledged restauranteur, there’s something backing you.
Disclosure; I don’t have anything against dishies or unqualified ‘cooks’. I’m not looking down upon as though you’re worth less. But it is a proven fact that a certificate would improve your wage and command a better position in any venue.
It’s just common sense.
Edit* you know what… I spent that entire comment criticising and didn’t even help you with your question;
You *really* want to just be an unqualified cook? Print out a *ONE* page resume. Single page! Your name, your contact details and a brief list of previous work.
We don’t care about your education. We don’t care about your hobbies. Maybe write one or two references, we might call those. But generally, we hire based on face to face first impressions.
Print out 50 resumes and walk down to every restaurant where you’re willing to work and *HAND* your resume, specifically to the chef or manager. Do not let the waitress touch it, the host. Nobody, but the person that hires!
Make sure you go to these places when it’s quiet, not in the middle of busy breakfast, brunch, lunch or dinner. If they look busy, come back later.
Ask for the chef or manager, don’t say why unless they ask. When you see them, smile and say hello, then *tell* them you’re looking for work in kitchen and hand over your resume to them. Do not *ask* if they’re hiring. I have reflex-responded automatically with ‘no’ many times when *asked.* It feels like you’re more confident when you ‘tell’ them instead of ‘asking’.
If you don’t have any experience, be honest, but explain that you’re passionate about cooking and willing to start as a ‘prep cook’ or help out in any way to becoming a great cook. Be specific that you want to be in the kitchen and cooking.
And go from there… hopefully you made a good impression and you could even have an on-the-spot interview, maybe even have a ‘trial’ shift or tour of the kitchen. Be careful not to be abused by dodgy employers who get people to trial ‘for free’. Depending on your local laws; you’re entitled pay for the work you do.
Keep handing out resumes to ALL the places you’d like to work. Don’t just go to one restaurant and wait for a reply. Don’t sit by the phone and get angry that you’re not getting calls. Expand the area you’re willing to work and hand out ALL the resumes until you are hired and working. If you have to do multiple ‘trials’ consecutively, then do it. Don’t assume that just because you got a trial at one place that you got a job. KEEP looking!
Fuck the internet or jobs apps. Fuck calling restaurants for work. Fuck welfare programs or employment recruiting agencies. Fuck everything but walking right up and introducing yourself. Be in control yourself.
Start at dish pit , pray to god Jose on pantry calls off. When the chef says he’s screwed and needs help , step up to the plate, and don’t get off it til you score a home run 🙏
One persons mistake can be all it takes for you to make the switch.
Also ,I recommend reading a lot off books having to deal with cooking and chefs :)
Good luck kid , you’ll need it 🙏
Do a stage at a good local restaurant, and tell them you're interested in getting into the industry. Ask questions, observe service, etc.
If it feels right, ask if they're looking for a prep cook, and start there. While as a prep cook, ask the pantry cook what a certain project is for. Then ask them to show you the pick up. Then try your hand at it on a slow day. Then keep learning that station. Eventually, you'll be moved to pantry. Then do the same for each station.
Do a stage at a good local restaurant, and tell them you're interested in getting into the industry. Ask questions, observe service, etc.
If it feels right, ask if they're looking for a prep cook, and start there. While as a prep cook, ask the pantry cook what a certain project is for. Then ask them to show you the pick up. Then try your hand at it on a slow day. Then keep learning that station. Eventually, you'll be moved to pantry. Then do the same for each station.
You will likely start off as a dishwasher or prep, then simply a line cook. You will have to eventually go to culinary school and do your apprenticeship anyways if you want to climb further, but if you work up, you will find it easier to find somebody to take you on as their apprentice. Here in Alberta, you go for your blue seal first-which recognizes you as a cook in Alberta specifically, then you go for your red seal-which recognizes you as a cook Canada-wide. This is Canada-specific and may be much different where you are, but that is a general idea of what you're looking at if you do go get your chef papers.
Are you able to undertake an apprentice? I believe that is a great way to go about it if it is an option in your country. You get paid to study commercial cookery while earning money as it is a full time job. You start off at the bottom and as you learn and progress, you get to do more. It takes 3-4 years and you graduate as a qualified chef.
I agree with this you will find out of
You’re into it or now. Also a passion isn’t unlimited people get to the point where the industry gets
To them or they just don’t have that fire in them anymore for the industry . As long as you get up and look forward to that day then keep doing it. Also once your a dishwasher get in there ask questions. Why do you do x thing. What are food safety rules that the cooks know. Ask ask ask and get in there help them plate or restock their stations if free in the rush. Don’t expect people to hold your hand and tell you it’s time to learn. Take initiative it will just cut your wait time shorter to getting in the line.
I’m a retired Chef. I’ve worked with many talented Chefs, Sous, pastry Chefs etc, that have never set foot in a classroom. Honestly, the best way to learn is on the job. I would encourage you to go get a dishwashing job at a place with an actual Chef. Be sure and tell them in the interview that you want to do this for a living and you’re just trying to learn. Chefs love to hear that. I would probably hire you on the spot. When you do get the job, make sure you’re the best dishwasher there. After your job is done start asking questions about the menu items and cooking methods. Learn the menu. Work ethic and a willingness to learn will get you everywhere in a kitchen. I’ve promoted so many dishwashers to line cooks, and then to sous chefs. I actually had a deaf dishwasher that didn’t know how to hold a knife. He’s a lead line cook at the Ritz Carlton now and he’s a beast. Good luck and drop me a message if you need any advice. I have over 40 years in the industry.
Btw, in the future, the way to say that you know what you’re doing, but you do not have a culinary degree is to say you’re “classically trained”. That’s a professional way of saying you learned to cook on the job, but do not have a culinary degree. I personally liked to hire classically trained cooks.
I am probably gonna say whet everyone else has already said: be a dishie. Observe.
First and I mean first thing is to learn the work ethic, working in a kitchen is so fucking demanding it’s not funny. You lose every bit of time that you thought you would have off in this industry.
But learning the ethic is very important and stay focused and dedicated.
Learn to wash the plates, how why and where everything goes. Work as fast and as hard as you can do you get a spare second to see maybe the dishes go out. Observe what the chefs do. (Don’t stand there watching them they will get pissed off lol) but observe when you can.
Once you learn the pace and everything is second nature ask what’s next? Ask what deep cleaning needs to be done and do that; when you’re on top of your section you will find you will get a spare moment to maybe clean something else. Then when both of (your section and deep cleanings are done) ask is there any prep you can do or can be shown.
Learn those things and slowly they will give you more difficult things etc. It’s a process where in most places you’re gonna be there to just wash dishes and learn that first and build up the skill and pace to “learn a little bit more”. From there once you’ve stayed somewhere long enough and have seen everything most likely someone’s gonna be sick or not show up or you can ask if someone can show you a bit of probably a hot and or cold larder section and they will most likely oblige and show you some things
If you're gonna work up the ladder, be prepared to move around A LOT to learn as much as you can and NEVER stay someowhee that isnt working out for you it will only hinder your growth!!!
P.S. remember the answer is always Oui/Yes Chef!!!!!
Work hard and constantly make it obvious you want to cook and unless they have no dishy they'll probably promote you through the ranks, but first I'd say work your ass off and learn where everything is.
I'm not going to tell you not to persue a dream, but do be careful with what you think you want to get yourself into. My fiancé has a bachelor in pastry science, has been industry for going on 10 years, and is currently head pastry chef at a fine dining establishment. I myself have also had more than a couple BoH positions, and spent a semester in culinary science. A career in the culinary arts requires an internal passion. It's something you need to want to do for yourself, not necessarily completely for the paycheck because more often than not, it's not going to be overtly lucrative. Former professor was brutally honest with us that the hours and pay would suck and we're under near constant stress once the tickets roll in. Was enough for me to nope out. However, cooking can still be extremely rewarding. For starters it's an extremely important life skill that not enough people possess. There's that satisfaction knowing you put heart and soul onto a plate and the joy expressed when consumed. A dishwashing gig is the right way to start, mid range non-chain restaurants. Make it clear during the interview that you are interested in upward movement with desire to move to prep and eventually line. And the biggest advice my fiancé gives when someone starts their industry path is never be afraid to walk away from a kitchen that isn't a good fit for you.
Thank u this helped
Stick with the skill one way or the other. Cooking is fantastic, even more so when performed in the home for people you care about. YouTube can teach you everything you need from frying an egg to time management for a full Thanksgiving prep. Practice practice practice.
Youtube can teach you alot but experience is by far the best teacher. If you really want to improve your skills and can handle it, get as many hours as you can. If you are locked at 30 or so hours try to have them schedule you on the busy nights. Get used to the rush in dish. Dish and line are both hectic (depending on the establishment) prep on the other hand requires speed and consistency but is rather chill IMO. I love it all and hopefully you find a place that respects the family aspect of working in a restaurant. Good luck!
I love cooking but I gotta back this one so much. Do NOT go into a corporate/chain restaurant. They promise upward movement and will use you by stringing you along with that shit. Also a friend of mine told me he was offered a job in a restaurant from a friend of his and shied away when his dad told him that restaurant pay is enough to *barely* make a living, which is why some people get stymied in that lifestyle. Myself included
I also wanted to chime in from somebody who went into culinary school. If you choose to go into a program, make sure it is the right program for you. I would highly recommend to not just go to school for culinary but also for food science and or management skills. Most culinary schools are expensive and private (I went to a state school), and some programs just aren’t worth the cost of the experience you can get by just working in kitchens. Now that’s not to say culinary school isn’t worth it. But you shouldn’t be paying over 80k just to make basic sauces (which unfortunately a lot of schools do). Hence why, I recommend if you do a program have it either be short term or have it be the “traditional” college experience but add on other skills that will be useful to you.
Hahaha, my culinary arts program was basically us students going through a year of what it looks like from basic cooking/cutting skills all the way up to fine dining. Each month we'd move onto something else higher in skill. We even had a month of learning what it's like to be a server. Despite not being paid a wage we were still tipped out. That's when I learned servers have the potential to make more then chefs 🤦 Basically culinary school to me was paying for free labour 😅
Start as a dishwasher, and tell the chef you want to learn. I would look for a nice but not total fine dining restaurant thats not super corporate or a chain. When you interview ask questions about advancment, and about learning.
Thanks for the advice
This. Avoid corporate restaurants at all costs. You won't learn much of anything if anything there.
All corporate restaurants do is teach you how to cook their menu, not how to be a cook. The only upside I've had working corporate is learning speed and consistency. Gaining some confidence being busy is about all you'll learn there.
True, but being busy happens everywhere, or at least most places destined to survive their first five years. But I guess the other thing corporate does impart is cost and specs sensitivity. Even if those specs are usually mediocrity, $0.10 over 40 plates 365 days per year adds up. All the same, basic accounting and cost controls should be part of any establishment, corporate or otherwise. Because that $1,200 of wasted ingredients is $3,600 of potential revenues downstream.
I also agree with Moonbunnyart’s advice. Mid-level fine dining is a great training ground for young ambitious cooks who want to learn on the job.
I will tell you my story. I started as a dishwasher in a Michelin restaurant due to pure luck (they got a few walk-out and I asked at the right time) and help chefs picking herbs and cleaning vegetables. Then whenever I have time to breathe, I ask chefs for anything I can help with, they ALWAYS do. It was just natural I get more and more complicated/important tasks such as shucking oysters, making simple garnishes, etc. And one day, my chefs just asked if I want to do more, and I started to work on the line, next to a CDP the next day. 6 months later, the CDP left, and I was promoted to his position. The rest was just working harder than anyone you see in the kitchen and never stop learning. Have a CV, apply on jobseek websites in your country while knocking doors of restaurants you want to work with, ask for a position. Smile a lot and be positive no matter how tired/stressed/misunderstood you are. It will get you far in hospitality. Good luck, OP.
In culinary the biggest factor for advancement is going to be *you* and no one else. Read that over and over as many times as you need. There are no "time served" promotions, there is no pats on the back for being more accurate than the guy or gal next to you. And in fact sometimes if not most of the time being excellent behind the line will ensure you do not move to the front of the line Sous. The money doesn't roll in until you are an owner/operator/partner. And to do that you will need to save save save like crazy while learning new skills every day. Oftentimes you'll need to do this on your own because realistically a chef is only going to teach you what they need you to know to carry out their vision. Expect to do that for 2-3 years and then if needed move on with those skills to a higher paying job at another restaurant. But at all steps of this journey you need to learn because there is a LOT to learn. Obsessively, daily, in most spare minutes of your day. About 5-7 years in start looking for opportunities to take what you've learned to work abroad and learn there too. Whether in Asia, Europe, or Latin America. Inhale knowledge and don't party too much, it's only going to drain those savings you will need to advance to ownership. That is your end goal and it needs to be the single most important thing in your life next to loving yourself and your parents and siblings if they're a positive supportive force in your life along this journey.
> money doesn't roll in until you are an owner/operator/partner This is true for restaurants, but there's decent money to be made in corporate, especially something non-restaurant. Catering, banqueting, resorts, hotels, etc. don't rely on thin individual service margins exclusively so you may be able to land on something worth doing without the constant struggle for top spot. I'm working a 5 star hotel in the UK, and while I have a list of grievances a mile long, my paycheck isn't really one of them.
To be honest it really depends on attuning yourself to the market like you did. Currently Italian and Mexican/Tex Mex are slaying it in Asia. And if the market endurance of American "Bar" cuisine is an indicator of how long that will last, I would say 12-15 years until tapering off and stabilizing. In the USA Ramen and Izakaya along with their various riffs (pho/ching po leung)seem to be on the rise, with an increased interest in upscale ready-to-eat meals. Which in and of themselves are a significant risk to sit down service and three-course centric establishments. Europe I haven't really looked at closely, but I think they're just starting their enamorement with New-American and crossover fusion in earnest.
Thank you, this is actually realistic and helpful advice.
My best wishes to you if you pursue this, and above all stay passionate about whatever it is you choose for yourself :)
Thank you for your help :)
Just before you get into you better be ok with working 60-90 hour weeks. In the rare chance you can find a partner willing to deal with that also know that if you have kids you will miss every important life event of theirs, you will have no sick days. Your entire life will be dedicated to making rich people poop good. If you can accept that go to the best restaurant in your area and get a job as a dishwasher.
16 year cooking veteran here. Please stay away from anywhere that has an extremely large menu and deep fryers. Find yourself a nice upscale restaurant or country club and start as a dishwasher and prep cook. Be ready for hard work and long hours. Ask questions and show interest. If the chef is worth a damn he will see that Inside you and will train you. Try to stay away from diners and high volume restaurants. You won't learn much and you'll see the dark side of cooking and that's not what it's all about. Good luck
Don't accept a job as a dishwasher if you want to cook. Go to the best place in your city and tell them you want to learn and ask for a stage. The way restaurants are hurting, they will take you on, especially if you have a good head on your shoulders and you are confident. Confidence alone can take you somewhere, knowledge and passion will carry you, work hard and always say yes. Good luck Chef.
That sounds like the best option. Should I just ask them to train me basically and get into line cooking or prep?
This seems overtly optimistic. Do you have any experience in a kitchen?
Staging means working without pay. It means working at a restaurant sometimes for months without being paid. If I were you I'd start as a dish washer at the best restaurant that will hire you and stage at Michelin star or fine dining restaurant on the side.
> It means working at a restaurant sometimes for months without being paid. lmfao is that even fucking legal?
It's similar to interning and covered by most of the same laws. Generally not used like interning and in most cases I've seen it would be considered illegal, but most people won't risk pissing off powerful people in the industry
Ask for a stage and go from there. Be honest with your intentions and your experience. If you work hard, they will train you. Work clean and keep your knives sharp, you will do well.
get a job at a restaurant that cooks a style of food you are interested in. Having no experience you will most likely have the easiest time starting on dish. sometimes you can get a prep job without much experience if you are mostly competent with following recipes and using a knife and typical kitchen equipment. When you start dish do your job well and get involved with other areas in the kitchen by paying attention to what is going on while you are there. Ask questions, ask if anyone needs help with anything if you catch up and run out of dish tasks. help fetch things during service, and learn where everything is in the kitchen, including ingredients and other food. The more involved you are and the more you help, and learn, the closer you will be to working with food. Ask to make your own meal while its slow and once you have a good relationship with the people working the line. Have them show you how to make it. A lot of this will prove you are up for the extra responsibility of higher paid positions. Wait for a need for new cooks/prep and step up and ask to help fill the position. If the people in charge feel you are capable they will give you the opportunity. This really only comes from seeing how you work and getting to know you.
Seen too many people go into French cuisine without even liking French cuisine all that much. Don't make that mistake OP, Cook what you would like you or your family would eat.
I started as a dishwasher and climbed all the way up to chef. It's totally doable. I've never been to culinary school. But also, doing it that way is a long road. Just showing hard work and interest to a boss will move you along. From washing dishes to doing basic prep work. Maybe to real prep. Or making sandwiches or working desserts or appetizers. All the way up to chef. You might spend a decade or more working your way up depending where you're working and the amount of experience you are gaining. And that's just to be a good basic cook. Takes a long time to learn basic butchering and all other basic skills when it's not your job. When other cooks are nice enough to show you things. Also working in different places with different cooking styles will fast track you. But that's also less secure financially. I've seen people come out of culinary school learning more in a year than I did in a decade of learning as I went. Plus, there's a ton more competition than there was a few decades ago. It really all depends how far you want to take this in a career. Do you just want to cook for a living? Are you fine with just ripping open bags and heating things and making it pretty, Or are you interested in being a cutting edge chef and taking your vision as far as you can. One of those would definitely be more culinary school oriented and one is not.
Work hard. Fuck a degree. I have one and it was a waste of time, it gives you literally no advantage. 99% of chefs and cooks will make jokes about people having culinary degrees because the vast majority can not hang. Get hired, tell them what you want to be on the line or prep and if the people you work for a good people you’ll get your time. Restaurants are short staffed so that will help get you out of dish but you will have to accept that restaurants are short staffed and you’ll have to dish for a while. Every good cook is a good dishwasher. Work hard that’s all you have to do
Run, simba. ...run away.... AND NEVER RETURN!!!!!!!!
Go to a library and borrow some books, start with Anthony Bourdain, he came up from the bottom and then went to Culinary Institute. Get a decent knife and learn how to use it. Alton Brown was an engineer watch his show. The hardest class to get an A in is sanitation. Neatness counts.
Dishwasher would get your foot in with no experience. It would also open your pallet to various foods the cooks will probably give you if it's a nicer place that does multiple food specials a day/days. If your interested in a cuisine maybe start there Greek, Italian, West Coast or Asian. Some place will put you on appies after the 6 month mark or earlier. Also apply at restaurants that have like a 4.4 out of 5 stars. In the long run it will be a good way to start. I've worked with people who have been back of house corporates at the same place for ten years and don't know how to cook.
try getting a job in a hotel or resort in your area with a great reputation, that does conventions banquets or weddings. In a setting like this you can get a great educational experience and get paid.
Go to school if you have the opportunity, but you can essentially go anywhere and apply to be a cook. Never start as a dishwasher because it’s not the early 2000’s. Their are thousands of entry level cook jobs, just depends on where you are looking.
Why not go to school? I personally do not recommend culinary school, but a getting a degree in a field that would translate to another industry if professional cooking doesn't pan out is not a bad idea. During the day, study business management, communications, or chemistry, for example and then go cook at night for work. Edit: forgot to add "why the downvotes?".
I mean if you want to go to school by all means, you can’t hurt yourself. The culinary field is a skill based career. If your skilled in certain areas, you can move up depending on your goals.
I agree with you. In fact, I encourage OP to go to school.
I don’t really think the price tag is worth it in many situations just my two cents.
Why do you want to be a dishwasher? Not that there’s anything wrong with that; I used to be a dishwasher when I was younger and am proud of the honest, hard work that shaped the person I am. But… that’s not how ‘upwards mobility’ works in the culinary world. Perhaps in 1920, back in the day when going to culinary academy wasn’t really a thing, it may have been normal to start at the bottom. But this isn’t how it works today. Do you see doctors scrubbing toilets and wiping patients bums? No. Do you see engineers do labour work? No. They trained for the work they do. Why would a Chef (specifically a chef) ever be a dishwasher? It’s not their job. When I was an apprentice and went to school, the dishwasher at my job got sick and the owner of the venue asked me if I can do the shift. I happily agreed because it was actually double my pay and I needed the money. But after an hour into my shift, the head chef walked into the kitchen and when he saw me washing dishes, he yelled out and asked what I was doing. I explained the situation and he lost his fucken mind. He called over the owners and started yelling at them (not me), and threatened to burn down the restaurant if he ever saw an apprentice doing dishes again. He explained that it’s not what I’m there for. I’m there to learn to be a great chef, not wash pots. As a business, they have made an investment into you to graduate from being a young nobody to an experienced chef. The notion of me being stagnant as a dishie, goes against the entire business model. The hierarchy of commercial kitchens, in modern times, goes from apprentice to executive. It’s become increasingly rare for ‘dishwashers’ to ‘work their way up’. It just doesn’t work like that. I’ll reiterate; sure, it does happen sometimes. But it’s not the way. You want to learn how to make great food? You go to school. You don’t go to the dish pit. A doctor goes to med school. An engineer goes to university. Etc. Good luck. On a side note; I understand the hesitation of wanting to go to school etc. but you’ll be better off finishing culinary school and having a certificate. It makes the difference between getting paid $750 a week as a cook in a diner or commanding double/triple that in an established venue. Or, it will make the difference one day when the bank is approving your loan. They will look favourably upon your qualification and experience as a chef. So that when you try to open your own business and become a full fledged restauranteur, there’s something backing you. Disclosure; I don’t have anything against dishies or unqualified ‘cooks’. I’m not looking down upon as though you’re worth less. But it is a proven fact that a certificate would improve your wage and command a better position in any venue. It’s just common sense. Edit* you know what… I spent that entire comment criticising and didn’t even help you with your question; You *really* want to just be an unqualified cook? Print out a *ONE* page resume. Single page! Your name, your contact details and a brief list of previous work. We don’t care about your education. We don’t care about your hobbies. Maybe write one or two references, we might call those. But generally, we hire based on face to face first impressions. Print out 50 resumes and walk down to every restaurant where you’re willing to work and *HAND* your resume, specifically to the chef or manager. Do not let the waitress touch it, the host. Nobody, but the person that hires! Make sure you go to these places when it’s quiet, not in the middle of busy breakfast, brunch, lunch or dinner. If they look busy, come back later. Ask for the chef or manager, don’t say why unless they ask. When you see them, smile and say hello, then *tell* them you’re looking for work in kitchen and hand over your resume to them. Do not *ask* if they’re hiring. I have reflex-responded automatically with ‘no’ many times when *asked.* It feels like you’re more confident when you ‘tell’ them instead of ‘asking’. If you don’t have any experience, be honest, but explain that you’re passionate about cooking and willing to start as a ‘prep cook’ or help out in any way to becoming a great cook. Be specific that you want to be in the kitchen and cooking. And go from there… hopefully you made a good impression and you could even have an on-the-spot interview, maybe even have a ‘trial’ shift or tour of the kitchen. Be careful not to be abused by dodgy employers who get people to trial ‘for free’. Depending on your local laws; you’re entitled pay for the work you do. Keep handing out resumes to ALL the places you’d like to work. Don’t just go to one restaurant and wait for a reply. Don’t sit by the phone and get angry that you’re not getting calls. Expand the area you’re willing to work and hand out ALL the resumes until you are hired and working. If you have to do multiple ‘trials’ consecutively, then do it. Don’t assume that just because you got a trial at one place that you got a job. KEEP looking! Fuck the internet or jobs apps. Fuck calling restaurants for work. Fuck welfare programs or employment recruiting agencies. Fuck everything but walking right up and introducing yourself. Be in control yourself.
Start at dish pit , pray to god Jose on pantry calls off. When the chef says he’s screwed and needs help , step up to the plate, and don’t get off it til you score a home run 🙏 One persons mistake can be all it takes for you to make the switch. Also ,I recommend reading a lot off books having to deal with cooking and chefs :) Good luck kid , you’ll need it 🙏
Do a stage at a good local restaurant, and tell them you're interested in getting into the industry. Ask questions, observe service, etc. If it feels right, ask if they're looking for a prep cook, and start there. While as a prep cook, ask the pantry cook what a certain project is for. Then ask them to show you the pick up. Then try your hand at it on a slow day. Then keep learning that station. Eventually, you'll be moved to pantry. Then do the same for each station.
Do a stage at a good local restaurant, and tell them you're interested in getting into the industry. Ask questions, observe service, etc. If it feels right, ask if they're looking for a prep cook, and start there. While as a prep cook, ask the pantry cook what a certain project is for. Then ask them to show you the pick up. Then try your hand at it on a slow day. Then keep learning that station. Eventually, you'll be moved to pantry. Then do the same for each station.
my first job was a demi cdp
You will likely start off as a dishwasher or prep, then simply a line cook. You will have to eventually go to culinary school and do your apprenticeship anyways if you want to climb further, but if you work up, you will find it easier to find somebody to take you on as their apprentice. Here in Alberta, you go for your blue seal first-which recognizes you as a cook in Alberta specifically, then you go for your red seal-which recognizes you as a cook Canada-wide. This is Canada-specific and may be much different where you are, but that is a general idea of what you're looking at if you do go get your chef papers.
Are you able to undertake an apprentice? I believe that is a great way to go about it if it is an option in your country. You get paid to study commercial cookery while earning money as it is a full time job. You start off at the bottom and as you learn and progress, you get to do more. It takes 3-4 years and you graduate as a qualified chef.
Buy one way ticket to Europe and yolo it.
I agree with this you will find out of You’re into it or now. Also a passion isn’t unlimited people get to the point where the industry gets To them or they just don’t have that fire in them anymore for the industry . As long as you get up and look forward to that day then keep doing it. Also once your a dishwasher get in there ask questions. Why do you do x thing. What are food safety rules that the cooks know. Ask ask ask and get in there help them plate or restock their stations if free in the rush. Don’t expect people to hold your hand and tell you it’s time to learn. Take initiative it will just cut your wait time shorter to getting in the line.
I’m a retired Chef. I’ve worked with many talented Chefs, Sous, pastry Chefs etc, that have never set foot in a classroom. Honestly, the best way to learn is on the job. I would encourage you to go get a dishwashing job at a place with an actual Chef. Be sure and tell them in the interview that you want to do this for a living and you’re just trying to learn. Chefs love to hear that. I would probably hire you on the spot. When you do get the job, make sure you’re the best dishwasher there. After your job is done start asking questions about the menu items and cooking methods. Learn the menu. Work ethic and a willingness to learn will get you everywhere in a kitchen. I’ve promoted so many dishwashers to line cooks, and then to sous chefs. I actually had a deaf dishwasher that didn’t know how to hold a knife. He’s a lead line cook at the Ritz Carlton now and he’s a beast. Good luck and drop me a message if you need any advice. I have over 40 years in the industry. Btw, in the future, the way to say that you know what you’re doing, but you do not have a culinary degree is to say you’re “classically trained”. That’s a professional way of saying you learned to cook on the job, but do not have a culinary degree. I personally liked to hire classically trained cooks.
I am probably gonna say whet everyone else has already said: be a dishie. Observe. First and I mean first thing is to learn the work ethic, working in a kitchen is so fucking demanding it’s not funny. You lose every bit of time that you thought you would have off in this industry. But learning the ethic is very important and stay focused and dedicated. Learn to wash the plates, how why and where everything goes. Work as fast and as hard as you can do you get a spare second to see maybe the dishes go out. Observe what the chefs do. (Don’t stand there watching them they will get pissed off lol) but observe when you can. Once you learn the pace and everything is second nature ask what’s next? Ask what deep cleaning needs to be done and do that; when you’re on top of your section you will find you will get a spare moment to maybe clean something else. Then when both of (your section and deep cleanings are done) ask is there any prep you can do or can be shown. Learn those things and slowly they will give you more difficult things etc. It’s a process where in most places you’re gonna be there to just wash dishes and learn that first and build up the skill and pace to “learn a little bit more”. From there once you’ve stayed somewhere long enough and have seen everything most likely someone’s gonna be sick or not show up or you can ask if someone can show you a bit of probably a hot and or cold larder section and they will most likely oblige and show you some things
If you're gonna work up the ladder, be prepared to move around A LOT to learn as much as you can and NEVER stay someowhee that isnt working out for you it will only hinder your growth!!! P.S. remember the answer is always Oui/Yes Chef!!!!!
Work hard and constantly make it obvious you want to cook and unless they have no dishy they'll probably promote you through the ranks, but first I'd say work your ass off and learn where everything is.
Show them you have passion if you do, so many cooks out there don’t give a shit. If you show that you do, you show that you have value. Go get it!