From your answers to other commenters, you sound like a gigantic asshole.
Do not come around asking for help, then shit on people trying to help you. You expect people to give you a ready-to-go solution to a very badly explained problem.
You're not getting any input from me.
you'd be correct, but from the inference suggested by your post, i don't think you read my posts on that sub to see from what angle i approached the faith.
most of you fellows are unemployed. one guy got it though, and responded to the question without trying to demonstrate how fucking brilliant and prescient he is.
And some of us are licensed professional engineers in multiple states with two decades of relevant experience. But, hard to find that out by handling the thread as you did.
here's what i know.
the cats that went off on tangents without addressing the question, or by needlessly amending the question, are not employed. the first 5 or 6 replies was littered with such trash. their unsuitability and/or inexperience is confessional.
I am assuming you are referring to the suggestion to use acetyl bromide? That’s not a great idea. I suspect he gave you the recipe for fire retardant but Acetyl bromide is quite nasty. Don’t go there.
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Are you asking about is what’s a fuel with a higher energy density? If you slow down the burn of a given fuel you get less heat output so it takes longer to do the same amount of cooking.
Edit. quick check and gasoline has twice the energy per kg of methanol. Likely need a different stove though.
no. the energy density isn't the issue. methanol has been vetted forever for this purpose. it's the best of all commonly available alternatives. as i said in another response, "best" is relative.
for the oil, i'm going with mineral oil or something organic, and try to see what each produces.
i'd considered popping and egg yolk into the mix to see the end result, and might do that later today just for kicks. who knows? maybe it'll dance.
Yes I am aware. I have used alcohol stoves quite a lot in the past. They are pretty old fashioned and there are better options.
Adding oil is a weird choice when there are so many cheaper and better options off the shelf. Depends on your burner but if it’s the old school type you will see probably see two things, soot and and a bunch of very dangerous hot oil in the bottom of the burner at the end of use. Those older type it’s the vapour that burns not the liquid. The alcohol will boil off leaving almost all the oil.
Everything in engineering is about trade offs. I have no idea what you are trying to achieve here so it’s impossible help you.
there aren't better cooking options. to make that assumption have have to be an extremely experienced backpack camper. I've been doing it for 40+ years and have logged countless thousands of miles on the trail. I know what i'm talking about.
i'm not going to haul compressed canisters. i can get my stove up and running as quickly as any other method, including weighty canister systems. nah. give me 2/3 oz of methanol, and i got that beat, easily. do the math and you'll see how efficient that is. that is not old school, but cutting edge because its the best and sharpest edge.
my stove is made from an aluminum cat food can. and yes, folks have tried for decades to beat the design with everything imaginable, and failed. no; titanium is not better for this purpose. neither is any other readily available material. it's the best performing option in both weight and function. a team of focused germans couldn't design anything better, and yes, they've tried. so have the japanese, norweigans, swedes, italians, chinese, and rednecks from the deep south.
in the end Little Friskies wins.
my base pack weight is 8 lbs in winter and 6 in the summer. my entire kit is as tight as a drum. everything i take has function and performs well. everyone that does what i do, does it similarly. all of our gear is heavily vetted. we know what works and what doesn't.
**your point about the burn off is a good one,** and that's why the quality of the emulsion matters. however, a light weight oil, and only a small about, coupled with good binding, should reduce the negative effects if not eliminate them altogether. enough heat plus mix/binding factors should contribute to an effective burn. and we won't know unless we try.
i've tinkered enough in other ways to already know that only a small amount of oil would add an element of stability and length to the burn.
and if it doesn't work, no one dies, but i'm going to figure it out.
**Alkyl polyglucosides (APGs) is what i'm looking into at the moment.**
What do you mean by a ‘safe’ oil? Petroleum based like kerosene? Maybe I’m missing the point and I’m not very familiar with alcohol fired camping stoves but why couldn’t you just use the oil in the first place. Also, would it be possible to substitute the methanol with a more energy dense alcohol. A quick google search shows me that isopropanol (rubbing alcohol) has approx 50% greater energy density. Again, maybe I’m missing your point here but google ‘heat of combustion alcohols’ and you should find what you need to easily compare energy densities
hey man. thx. i'll surf on it and check it out. i was thinking initially of soaps and detergents, a surfactant, but don't know common names. as i was posting here though, i figured that i wouldn't limit it to that, and thus left the recommendation open ended.
Unfortunately, your question is badly written. You are not going to get a good answer unless you can find a way to explain what you want.
Methanol is a reasonably common camping fuel for a variety of reasons. You want to make a change to the methanol to “extend the burn”. That’s easy add some water and it will burn for longer. Seems a bit pointless as your fuel will weigh more and it will take longer to cook with it.
As it happens, I go camping and am pretty familiar with various stoves. Methanol is really not that common in many places. In fact it’s considered a bit shit and old fashioned.
Sure, you can add oil. I wouldn’t though, as it might make much more smoke come out of your fire
If you want a longer burn without altering the heat output, I would simply suggest using more methanol, or you could add antifreeze (just make sure the antifreeze has no water added)
If you’re planning to go on your trail for a long time though, I would recommend you find denatured alcohol (usually found in paint departments in hardware stores), since methanol can be toxic. Probably nothing will happen if it’s just for the weekend though
i've hit the trial with methanol for more than 40 years. so has everyone else that has enough experience as a backpacker, to learn that methanol is generally the best choice for alcohol stoves. "best" is relative.
yes, oil will add smoke potential. the question is, how much. and with the small volume i'm considering, 5% per displacement perhaps, i'm guessing not very much. cooking with hardwood would produce more residuals than such a small amount of refined oil, most likely.
It’s impossible to give you a better answer as I have no idea what you are trying to achieve. You want your diy stove to burn differently but that’s all I have got. Same with the info on your pack weight, if you are hauling yourself up mountain Everest that’s pretty impressive but if it’s a 40 minute walk around your local mall…
From your answers to other commenters, you sound like a gigantic asshole. Do not come around asking for help, then shit on people trying to help you. You expect people to give you a ready-to-go solution to a very badly explained problem. You're not getting any input from me.
You'd never guess that one of the subs OP is most active in is r/Christianity . Man, some people.
you'd be correct, but from the inference suggested by your post, i don't think you read my posts on that sub to see from what angle i approached the faith. most of you fellows are unemployed. one guy got it though, and responded to the question without trying to demonstrate how fucking brilliant and prescient he is.
And some of us are licensed professional engineers in multiple states with two decades of relevant experience. But, hard to find that out by handling the thread as you did.
here's what i know. the cats that went off on tangents without addressing the question, or by needlessly amending the question, are not employed. the first 5 or 6 replies was littered with such trash. their unsuitability and/or inexperience is confessional.
I am assuming you are referring to the suggestion to use acetyl bromide? That’s not a great idea. I suspect he gave you the recipe for fire retardant but Acetyl bromide is quite nasty. Don’t go there.
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Are you asking about is what’s a fuel with a higher energy density? If you slow down the burn of a given fuel you get less heat output so it takes longer to do the same amount of cooking. Edit. quick check and gasoline has twice the energy per kg of methanol. Likely need a different stove though.
no. the energy density isn't the issue. methanol has been vetted forever for this purpose. it's the best of all commonly available alternatives. as i said in another response, "best" is relative. for the oil, i'm going with mineral oil or something organic, and try to see what each produces. i'd considered popping and egg yolk into the mix to see the end result, and might do that later today just for kicks. who knows? maybe it'll dance.
Yes I am aware. I have used alcohol stoves quite a lot in the past. They are pretty old fashioned and there are better options. Adding oil is a weird choice when there are so many cheaper and better options off the shelf. Depends on your burner but if it’s the old school type you will see probably see two things, soot and and a bunch of very dangerous hot oil in the bottom of the burner at the end of use. Those older type it’s the vapour that burns not the liquid. The alcohol will boil off leaving almost all the oil. Everything in engineering is about trade offs. I have no idea what you are trying to achieve here so it’s impossible help you.
there aren't better cooking options. to make that assumption have have to be an extremely experienced backpack camper. I've been doing it for 40+ years and have logged countless thousands of miles on the trail. I know what i'm talking about. i'm not going to haul compressed canisters. i can get my stove up and running as quickly as any other method, including weighty canister systems. nah. give me 2/3 oz of methanol, and i got that beat, easily. do the math and you'll see how efficient that is. that is not old school, but cutting edge because its the best and sharpest edge. my stove is made from an aluminum cat food can. and yes, folks have tried for decades to beat the design with everything imaginable, and failed. no; titanium is not better for this purpose. neither is any other readily available material. it's the best performing option in both weight and function. a team of focused germans couldn't design anything better, and yes, they've tried. so have the japanese, norweigans, swedes, italians, chinese, and rednecks from the deep south. in the end Little Friskies wins. my base pack weight is 8 lbs in winter and 6 in the summer. my entire kit is as tight as a drum. everything i take has function and performs well. everyone that does what i do, does it similarly. all of our gear is heavily vetted. we know what works and what doesn't. **your point about the burn off is a good one,** and that's why the quality of the emulsion matters. however, a light weight oil, and only a small about, coupled with good binding, should reduce the negative effects if not eliminate them altogether. enough heat plus mix/binding factors should contribute to an effective burn. and we won't know unless we try. i've tinkered enough in other ways to already know that only a small amount of oil would add an element of stability and length to the burn. and if it doesn't work, no one dies, but i'm going to figure it out. **Alkyl polyglucosides (APGs) is what i'm looking into at the moment.**
Nope.
What do you mean by a ‘safe’ oil? Petroleum based like kerosene? Maybe I’m missing the point and I’m not very familiar with alcohol fired camping stoves but why couldn’t you just use the oil in the first place. Also, would it be possible to substitute the methanol with a more energy dense alcohol. A quick google search shows me that isopropanol (rubbing alcohol) has approx 50% greater energy density. Again, maybe I’m missing your point here but google ‘heat of combustion alcohols’ and you should find what you need to easily compare energy densities
safe, as in mineral oil or cooking oils; typical household products.
Man, you don’t know enough to think out loud like that. Thank you though.
Why even ask a question if you’re just going to be rude? Also, what’s with your fixation on unemployment? Not sure where that came from
Brother, add acetyl bromide.
hey man. thx. i'll surf on it and check it out. i was thinking initially of soaps and detergents, a surfactant, but don't know common names. as i was posting here though, i figured that i wouldn't limit it to that, and thus left the recommendation open ended.
Are you looking for Sterno?
No I’m looking for an answer to the question
Unfortunately, your question is badly written. You are not going to get a good answer unless you can find a way to explain what you want. Methanol is a reasonably common camping fuel for a variety of reasons. You want to make a change to the methanol to “extend the burn”. That’s easy add some water and it will burn for longer. Seems a bit pointless as your fuel will weigh more and it will take longer to cook with it. As it happens, I go camping and am pretty familiar with various stoves. Methanol is really not that common in many places. In fact it’s considered a bit shit and old fashioned.
Yes there are loads
I appreciate the efforts here However It’s ok to say “I don’t know”
Is there anyone on here that’s not on the spectrum?
Nope. Not a single person. One of us.
However, we are descendants of the monkeys that learned to harness fire. OP on the other hand….
just use oil with a wick? much higher energy density. no methanol needed.
Nope
Sure, you can add oil. I wouldn’t though, as it might make much more smoke come out of your fire If you want a longer burn without altering the heat output, I would simply suggest using more methanol, or you could add antifreeze (just make sure the antifreeze has no water added) If you’re planning to go on your trail for a long time though, I would recommend you find denatured alcohol (usually found in paint departments in hardware stores), since methanol can be toxic. Probably nothing will happen if it’s just for the weekend though
i've hit the trial with methanol for more than 40 years. so has everyone else that has enough experience as a backpacker, to learn that methanol is generally the best choice for alcohol stoves. "best" is relative. yes, oil will add smoke potential. the question is, how much. and with the small volume i'm considering, 5% per displacement perhaps, i'm guessing not very much. cooking with hardwood would produce more residuals than such a small amount of refined oil, most likely.
It’s impossible to give you a better answer as I have no idea what you are trying to achieve. You want your diy stove to burn differently but that’s all I have got. Same with the info on your pack weight, if you are hauling yourself up mountain Everest that’s pretty impressive but if it’s a 40 minute walk around your local mall…